Should we bring back Capital Punishment (Serious Debate)

[Tanser_Man]

... the death penalty to improve our society?

Discuss

Now with Britain turning into a haven for criminals and crime, would it be a good thing to reintroduce the death penalty?

I think we should bring the death penalty back in this country immediately, before it’s too late! We're already seeing the youth of today resorting to crime as if it’s a commodity in life, using an ASBO as an achievement, getting pleasure from other people’s misery. Surely you wouldn't want your kids growing up in a lawless society like this?

Having a death sentence would put the gitters up these offenders and make them think twice about breaking the law.

I think it's sad that in this day and age people are too scared to walk down there roads at night, in a country which is supposed to be free from tyranny and oppression. We can get rid of evil dictators but we can’t stop the very people on our doorsteps? Surely we have our priorities wrong?

If you’re in favor, what sort of death sentence would you impose?

Hanging
Lethal Injection
Firing Squad
Electrocution

If not, why should we not and what alternatives do we have?

Surely it would be cheaper to get rid of these vile people then to let them live the polished lives they do now?

There are so many questions and answers I could bring forward but I’d be here all night making this thread, so at least I have got the ball rolling!

[Chrizzle]

Definately no.

I completely disagree with it.

[Tanser_Man]

Originally posted by Chrizzle
Definately no.

I completely disagree with it.

Why do you disagree?

:whistle:

[Chrizzle]

I'm not sure.

I just think its wrong.
I don't think killing anyone, is the answer!

[Lauren]

I'm all for it.

With jails being crowded up, there is a lot of serious offenders being freed too early and therefore more crimes being committed.
I'm not a complete cold-hearted gal though - I think it should be by lethal injection. (Although I'm tempted to say they should be killed in the same way they killed the victim).

[Pipergun]

Wooah.. I have some pretty strong views on this!

No.. definitely not. I don't believe in an eye for an eye.

Criminals, especially murderers worthy of the death penalty should have to live a life of torment, contemplating what possessed them to do what they did. Living with themselves must be one of the hardest things to do, so make them do it.

Death is too easy for those sort of criminals, it's an easy way out. They deserve a life of suffering for the happy, healthy lives that they've taken away and the families and family legacies that they have forever tainted.

[Tanser_Man]

Originally posted by Chrizzle
I'm not sure.

I just think its wrong.
I don't think killing anyone, is the answer!

I think if the crime justifys death, it should be a possibility.

If someone kills someone, in my eyes they shouldn't have the luxury of a breath nevermind a posh cell for the rest of there lives. What about the poor victim? Do they get the choice of whether they get to live or die?

:whistle:

[Tanser_Man]

Originally posted by LaurenFah
(Although I'm tempted to say they should be killed in the same way they killed the victim).

Tempted!?

That's exactly the way i would personally want it done, at least then they'd feel the pain and suffering (if any) that was caused to the victim.

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Tanser_Man
Originally posted by LaurenFah
(Although I'm tempted to say they should be killed in the same way they killed the victim).

Tempted!?

That's exactly the way i would personally want it done, at least then they'd feel the pain and suffering (if any) that was caused to the victim.

Ooh go on then. I'll treat myself to a bad thought. :devil:
Haha.

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Pipergun
Death is too easy for those sort of criminals, it's an easy way out. They deserve a life of suffering for the happy, healthy lives that they've taken away and the families and family legacies that they have forever tainted.

But the thing is - a lot of them don't live a life of suffering. Sociopaths don't even recognise they have done anything wrong. They live in a cushy cell, with Sky TV, internet access etc.

Or they get let free cos there's so many of the scumbags that the sentencing is becoming weak.

Rid the world of them, I say.,

[Chrizzle]

I always say, let them suffer.
Once they are dead, its over. Why would we want that to happen?

Lock them away with a piece of bread everyday, and a glass of water!
A tiny bit of sunlight. yes its torture, but its punishment.

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Chrizzle
Lock them away with a piece of bread everyday, and a glass of water!
A tiny bit of sunlight. yes its torture, but its punishment.

We don't have enough space in the world to do that. Thats why a lot of murderers/paedos/rapists are being freed early.

[Tanser_Man]

Originally posted by Pipergun
Wooah.. I have some pretty strong views on this!

No.. definitely not. I don't believe in an eye for an eye.

Criminals, especially murderers worthy of the death penalty should have to live a life of torment, contemplating what possessed them to do what they did. Living with themselves must be one of the hardest things to do, so make them do it.

Death is too easy for those sort of criminals, it's an easy way out. They deserve a life of suffering for the happy, healthy lives that they've taken away and the families and family legacies that they have forever tainted.

For me, the ends justify the means, at least when it is a guilty party who is punished.

Fundamentally it should be down to the victim/s whether the person lives or dies for there offence. Death should be a plausable option because after all, the offender had the choice in the first place.

[sol]

I'm not sure really, it may save the problem with crime or it may not but for now I don't think it's necessary.

[Tanser_Man]

Originally posted by LaurenFah
Originally posted by Chrizzle
Lock them away with a piece of bread everyday, and a glass of water!
A tiny bit of sunlight. yes its torture, but its punishment.

We don't have enough space in the world to do that. Thats why a lot of murderers/paedos/rapists are being freed early.

Not only that but murderers/rapists can plead insanity/exceptional circumstances and they get sent to loony hospitals and within a few years they can be released. My mom works at a looney hospital and these people are allowed to go on day trips.... walk about the ground (which happens to be joined to social club and various kids facilities) and even letting them out to roam the streets.

How is that good for society?

[Lauren]

Because of the complex law system there's a load of loopholes, and like you mention - one of them being the insanity plea.

[Tanser_Man]

Originally posted by andybigbro
Absolutely No!

Why are you opposed then? your reasons?

:wink:

[Corkie]

Like abortion, it is a debated topic. The main problem with the death penalty was the result of executing many innocents, for example Joe Hill who was executed but later was proven innocent.

I personally think that it shouldn’t be allowed for this reason. I know it does make the law seem to be more severe, but put to death isn’t the answer in my opinion. I think it is an inhumane thing to do, and we should follow the commandment “thou shall not kill.” I know a lot of the people up for execution are there for that reason… but does that it make us any better?

[xGemmax]

I think they should. There are too many scumbags free to walk the streets. A lot of those people dont deserve to live :nono:

[Lauren]

Originally posted by corkie
Like abortion, it is a debated topic. The main problem with the death penalty was the result of executing many innocents, for example Joe Hill who was executed but later was proven innocent.

I personally think that it shouldn’t be allowed for this reason. I know it does make the law seem to be more severe, but put to death isn’t the answer in my opinion. I think it is an inhumane thing to do, and we should follow the commandment “thou shall not kill.” I know a lot of the people up for execution are there for that reason… but does that it make us any better?

With all due respect, Joe Hill happened a LONG time ago. Think of the advances in forensic science since then. It is very rare that someone is convicted of a murder without forensic evidence.

[Corkie]

Originally posted by LaurenFah
Originally posted by corkie
Like abortion, it is a debated topic. The main problem with the death penalty was the result of executing many innocents, for example Joe Hill who was executed but later was proven innocent.

I personally think that it shouldn’t be allowed for this reason. I know it does make the law seem to be more severe, but put to death isn’t the answer in my opinion. I think it is an inhumane thing to do, and we should follow the commandment “thou shall not kill.” I know a lot of the people up for execution are there for that reason… but does that it make us any better?

With all due respect, Joe Hill happened a LONG time ago. Think of the advances in forensic science since then. It is very rare that someone is convicted of a murder without forensic evidence.

I know there are a lot of forensic science advantages but I still think they could make a fatal mistake (some how, I’m not an expert on forensic science).... I also think that if they did bring back the death penalty then it would cause havoc….. Riots, marches the government would be in turmoil

[Lauren]

Corkie - it's rare these days that anyone is convicted WITHOUT forensic evidence that links them to the scene of the crime etc.
And I don't think it would cause much riots, since a study showed that about 80% of the British Public want the death penalty re-established. :hugesmile:

[Corkie]

Originally posted by LaurenFah
Corkie - it's rare these days that anyone is convicted WITHOUT forensic evidence that links them to the scene of the crime etc.
And I don't think it would cause much riots, since a study showed that about 80% of the British Public want the death penalty re-established. :hugesmile:


Lol there was me trying to be intelligent..... Eh well..... I still think that the death penalty should not be allowed....

[stoney12]

In cases where it is proven that the murderer is definatley guilty as in Ian Huntley , the yorkshire ripper and many other scumbags then why not have the death penalty as both a fitting punishment and a possible deterent.

Why pay to keep them alive,it seems the only just punishment in my 'umble opinion.

I have swapped and changed opinion on this over the years as it is a radical punishment ,but it is the only real penalty for the people who commit these terrible,life shattering(not just for the victim)crimes.

[Tanser_Man]

Originally posted by stoney12
In cases where it is proven that the murderer is definatley guilty as in Ian Huntley , the yorkshire ripper and many other scumbags then why not have the death penalty as both a fitting punishment and a possible deterent.

Why pay to keep them alive,it seems the only just punishment in my 'umble opinion.

I have swapped and changed opinion on this over the years as it is a radical punishment ,but it is the only real penalty for the people who commit these terrible,life shattering(not just for the victim)crimes.

Amen to that!

Spot on!

[Diablo]

I think we should bring back the death penalty..

too many people being release early and committing serious crimes like murder/rape when they are out..

I think murderers and animal torturers should be killed they way they have killed.. like a yob having a slab tied to his neck and being thrown in a river like he did to the little dog :mad::mad::mad:

OMG i'm getting angry!

No chance of the death penalty being reintroduced though because in this country the criminals dont even serve a jail sentence.

Jail life isn't a fit punishment with the sky TV and gym equipment etc etc etc

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Diablo
I think we should bring back the death penalty..

too many people being release early and committing serious crimes like murder/rape when they are out..

I think murderers and animal torturers should be killed they way they have killed.. like a yob having a slab tied to his neck and being thrown in a river like he did to the little dog :mad::mad::mad:

OMG i'm getting angry!

No chance of the death penalty being reintroduced though because in this country the criminals dont even serve a jail sentence.

Jail life isn't a fit punishment with the sky TV and gym equipment etc etc etc

Amen to that sister!

[Diablo]

:hello:

criminals get away with far too much in the UK.. some countries cut hands off..

[Lauren]

Any one that intentionally brings harm to another living thing (Apart from plants, haha) - deserve to have the same done back to them.

We're a soft country.

[Diablo]

too politically correct... drives me mad sometimes..

[Lil-Lindz]

TBH i dont see how the death penality would help with anything
Ive been stydying ruth ellis who was the last person to be hanged in Britain, and to be honest i dont see how killing her achieved anything
And if it didnt back then it wont do today
Also I think murders should serve their time in a grungy old cell, cause thats where they should be
Death is such as easy option out we should make them live a life of hell cause thats what these sort of people deserve

[Diablo]

Originally posted by Lil-Lindz

Also I think murders should serve their time in a grungy old cell, cause thats where they should be
Death is such as easy option out we should make them live a life of hell cause thats what these sort of people deserve


Do they live a life of hell in a grungy old cell though???
I dont think they do.....

[Bells]

This is quite a useful topic for me, seeing as I just came back from a Criminal Law course at a nearby university!

There's always going to be fors and againsts. But we were told about how in Texas alone, over the last century alone, hundreds of people have been executed when they were actually proven innocent afterwards. Whilst people like Ian Huntley etc. certainly are vile criminals, bringing the death penalty back might result in a similar way - you're still taking away innocent lives. Additionally, sometimes in death penalty cases, the lawyers tend to make decisions about people and crimes they'll do before they have even done them, i.e. saying they'll be a threat to society, e.g. 'this person has committed a grave crime, and we feel they will be a risk to people in future and may do it again, therefore we must execute this person.' How can you say something like that though? You could say you could get a psychiatrist in to analyse what the criminal really thinks, but how far is that reliable? You're still taking it for granted when you can't really afford to do that, and that's another point to weaken the death penalty issue.

[Sunny_01]

There are very real issues of human rights that will effect us all if it were to be reintroduced.
Will the government introduce laws that are just and contain sufficient safeguards and will the judiciary administer them properly?

We are all potentially capable of murder (a lot of domestic murders, where one partner murders the other during a row, are first time crimes) and, therefore, we must each consider whether we and our loved ones are more at risk of being murdered or being executed for committing murder.

We also need to consider what the likelihood is of innocent people being executed - it is inevitable that it would happen sooner or later in this country and has already happened in many other countries, It has never been shown to deter crime more effectively than any other punishments so why do it!

Can the police, the courts, and the system generally be trusted to get things right on every occasion? They never have been able to previously.

Will juries be willing to convict in capital cases? Would you like to have to make the decision as to whether the person in the dock should live or die?

Will the government really be willing to carry out death sentences or will they find every excuse for not doing so, thus returning to the injustices of earlier centuries?

My husbands Aunt was brutally murdered a lot of years ago, the murderer was recently released and went on to kill again, so our family more than many should be the ones crying out for this kind of punishment, yet we are not. None of us would like to be a party to ending someone elses life.

I also voted No because I just dont think our systems of justice are solid enough to ensure that all convictions are in fact safe! I have also worked within the prison system for a long time and have met people who have been released after many years behind bars after being proven innocent!

Look at some of the women recently who were sent to prison on life sentences for the murder of their babies all based on the evidence of a scientist who had in fact got it very wrong. I would not like to be the one involved in the decision making process if the death sentence was brought back to this country.

[Legend]

I also had the view of 'an eye for an eye' and if you kill somebody then you should be killed, end of really but that was before i realised a lot more stronger points for being against it.

The main reason i am 100% against it is the fact that innocent people have been executed because of it. You can say that forensic science has been introduced etc and yeah it has and yeah it helps a lot but there are still come cases, some recent cases in which innocent people have been killed for crimes they did not commit and i think for that reason alone, it should not be brought back however there are more reasons i am against it. Maybe the facts are that only 0.1% of all people who have been excecuted were innocent, does that 0.1% not matter? Should that chance be taken? I don't know the correct percentages mind, it was just an example.

I think that they should be thrown in prision and 'left to rot' and not only that, being in prision gives the police or whoever the chance to get more proof and maybe prove the innocent onces innocent and although that's not ideal for innocent people, surely it's better than death? I know they are left on death row to give the police a chance to get the evidence etc but as i have said, it's been proving that innocent people still die.

Not only that but i think that if a family member of mine was murdered *touches wood* then i wouldn't feel that the murderer just being killed themselves would make me feel any better and it wouldn't make me feel that justice had been done. However, knowing that they have to live the rest of their pathetic little lives in prision would make me feel a lot better about it. A couple of minutes/seconds/whatever being killed is not suffering for them, it's such an easy way out and that along with some more reasons is why i'm completely against the death penalty being brought back.

[Lil-Lindz]

Originally posted by Diablo
Originally posted by Lil-Lindz

Also I think murders should serve their time in a grungy old cell, cause thats where they should be
Death is such as easy option out we should make them live a life of hell cause thats what these sort of people deserve


Do they live a life of hell in a grungy old cell though???
I dont think they do.....

Well i think they should change it
Ive heard some stories that people who are locked up for years can even choose the color of the wall in their cell
Its should be grey and nothing else IMO

[Z]

I think it should be brought back, but only for serial killers who confessed to the crime. Anybody that is without a doubt guilty, too. Not somebody convincted on shaky evidence. For example, Ruth Ellis, plenty of witnesses, she confessed to the crime. Wham, there's your death penalty example - had she been a serial killer. Generally, serial killers can live with what they've done, apparently when Peter Sutcliffe confessed to the murders he committed he only showed emotion about Jayne MacDonald (I think that's her name), who was 16, not a prostitute and was only a short distance away from her home. How can somebody that cold hearted be allowed to live? They are not remorseful, and they've ruined many lives. I doubt people want them alive only to get let out 25+ years later.

[Lil-Lindz]

Originally posted by Ziola
I think it should be brought back, but only for serial killers who confessed to the crime. Anybody that is without a doubt guilty, too. Not somebody convincted on shaky evidence. For example, Ruth Ellis, plenty of witnesses, she confessed to the crime. Wham, there's your death penalty example - had she been a serial killer. Generally, serial killers can live with what they've done, apparently when Peter Sutcliffe confessed to the murders he committed he only showed emotion about Jayne MacDonald (I think that's her name), who was 16, not a prostitute and was only a short distance away from her home. How can somebody that cold hearted be allowed to live? They are not remorseful, and they've ruined many lives. I doubt people want them alive only to get let out 25+ years later.

you have a good point there, but what you havent taken into account is the events what caused ruth ellis to do what she had did, ruth had suffered domestic violence from many of her relationships
She was driven to the edge, yes she confessed she did it but she was pushed to the edge
I think it shouldn't be bought back after all 2 wrongs dont make a right so killing someone because they killed someone wont make it ok
Well thats what i believe anyway :spin2:

[Sunny_01]

Will executions really prove to be the deterrent that the supporters of capital punishment expect them to be? This is always put forward by the pro-capital punishment lobby as the main benefit from reintroduction. It is unlikely the very worst murderers would be deterred because they are typically psychopaths or of such dubious sanity that they are incapable of rational behaviour (often taking their own lives immediately after the crime, as in the Hungerford and Dunblane massacres) Certain criminals, e.g. drug traffickers, may be deterred because they have a clear option with defined risks but would the person who has a violent argument with their partner give a second thought to what will happen to them when in the heat of the moment they pick up the carving knife?

It isnt really likely that a handful of executions a year would have any real deterrent effect particularly on the people whom society would most like to see deterred , e.g. serial killers, multiple rapist. The serial killers will be found insane and the rapists will use any means to avoid conviction, e.g. intimidation of witnesses, dragging the womens names through the courts and their reputations into the gutter. So we go back to the situation where only "sane" murderers can be executed. So in theory a modern day Ruth Ellis might also be executed because she was sane, whilst Beverley Allitt, who murdered 4 small children, would be reprieved because she has Munchausen's Syndrome by Proxy or so she and certain psychiatrists claim.

Again I maintain that I would remain against the death sentence until a way to ensure convictions were "safe" could be established but with everyone interpreting guidelines etc.. differently I doubt that will ever happen.

[Ann]

i do totally agree with corkie as there was so many inocent people getting harmed for for nothing and that is an awful thing to go through lol :laugh2::tongue:

[easypeasy]

if one innocent person was put to death its one too many.

[Sunny_01]

Originally posted by easypeasy
if one innocent person was put to death its one too many.

Completely agree with you.

I think that everyone is entitled to an opinion but to simply say YES bring it back without a real reason seems a little macabre to me.

I thought that this thread might raise some serious debate and I am sure Tanser thought the same when he opened it, so come on tell us your rationale for saying yes those who are all for it coming back and how do you think it could be implimented safely!

[Tanser_Man]

I thought this thread would be great for the old debate but seems to have gone unnoticed to a fair few members! Dammit!

I generally still feel a death sentance would be a logical solution for serious offenders, but i do accept the view that killing the offender is as bad as the offender offending. Just like BB for example, everyone moaned about Jade bullying and then the media bullied her in responce, your kinda left thinking, hang on... who's the person in the wrong here.

I do think there should be tougher measures implemented from the root of the problem, for petty crime for example. Have huge fines or huge unpaid hours of work, scare tactics so along way. Like they done with the mobile phone fines while driving, doubled the fine to make people think about there actions beforehand. The same applies for criminals or potential criminals.

It just seems the government are more interested in tying knots with other countries then realising the troubles at home. If the crime rate isn't stopped from increasing then we may aswell move to baghdad! It will be just as dangerous!

[Sunny_01]

Not sure we are going to get a good debate going here Tanser - good effort though, I have tried to suggest to people that they give a good reason and try to explain their thoughts but seems to fall on the proverbial deaf ears.

As you opened this as a thread for serious debate I am going to edit it and remove all the pointless posts that are here - hope that helps raise some serious discussion

I dont think that there is a perfect answer to the death penalty question really. Where I am opposed to it based on the thinking I discussed earlier I can see where people might want it brought back. I would want to see a more robust judicial system in place first before it was even up for consideration. Our laws are so strange and often make no sense in that a peadophile can serve lesss time in prison than someone for shop lifting. Not saying stealing is right but surely the sentence should suit the crime!

[Tanser_Man]

Ahh, sounds a good idea to remove the poop! But when theres such great threads about, i can understand its demise!

I agree, some laws at the moment are pathetic. The fact that there is no room for prisoners at the moment means they can afford to take the risk, knowing they will more then likely be let off the hook! The peados for example let loose because there making cut backs, it's encouraging anti-social behaviour! What if now them peado's reoffend on an innocent girl/boy, who would be to blame? The only people to blame would be the people who should be enforcing the laws!

I was talking to a man from Iraq a few days ago, he was Kurdish and some of the things he told me about what he had to endure during Sadam's rule were disgusting. We are lucky enough to be in a country which has laws and morality, to enforce this would be the clever thing to do, to turn your back on it? Suicide. It's time the bigwigs got there feet out from under the table and do something before it's too late. At least at this stage you can rectify the problems that are arising.

[Tanser_Man]

BUMPPPPPPPPPPPPP

:bawling:

[Emilee]

Deffinatly Not!

Death is not the way to deal with something.

[Tanser_Man]

Now that other serious debate threads are up.... how about this one!?

[Razmataz]

I think It should come back for exceptional circumstances.

Murder.
Terrorism.
and Rapists.

[The_Hitman]

Absolutely not.

Capital punishment justifies murder.

Absolutely no way a civilised society can move forward with capital punishment. It is moving backwards.

[Ruth]

I don't agree with the death penalty...it's not so much that I don't think people like Ian Huntley for example deserves to die for what he has done - more that I think, what right has anybody else to make that decision about his life? By administering the death penalty, it's like saying, "you can't kill people on your terms, but it's okay for us to kill people on our terms." I'm sorry, I just don't agree with the death penalty, and I can't make exceptions.

Regarding the financial issue - I often hear people say "why should we pay to keep these people in prison?" The fact is that if the death penalty were reintroduced to Britain, anyone sentenced to it, would have appeal after appeal after appeal after appeal. Those appeals would run into 10s of thousands of pounds, if not 100s of thousands of pounds, and it would be the taxpayers paying for it. We would probably end up paying more than it would cost to keep them in prison for the rest of their life.

Don't get me wrong, if Ian Huntley (again, as an example) decided to kill himself, I wouldn't shed any tears; but I don't think that you or I have the right to make the decision for him. Just as he had no right to make the decision for Holly and Jessica. The death penalty is people saying, "killing is wrong unless we decide to do it."

And to be honest - I pay my taxes partly in order to keep these scum off the streets. No - I don't mind contributing towards keeping the streets safe and keeping these people in prison. I have a problem with how lenient our sentences in Britain are, but that's a different issue entirely.

[ttw]

NO death penalty....

How does this make the criminal pay for their actions?

I'd rather a criminal suffer for his actions and if he is dead he ain't gna care is he.

Let him stay in prison and get bummed in the showers is what i say!!!

[GiRTh]

I've onlt just noticed this thread so I thought I'd put in my two pen 'orth.

In my opinion. Killing is wrong whether it's done by you, me or the state.

One question to everybody but mostly to the pro-capitalist - What is the point of prison? Is it to punish or re-habilitate? I reckon, a bit of both.

In America the death penalty is a very contentious issue. In the states where it's law there are few convictions. Because as soon as the death penalty becomes a factor most cases turns into a farce. Lawyers trying to make a name for themselves usually take on the cases and the media eakes out every ounce of popr publicity that it can. I'd hate for that to happen in this country.

[Sunny_01]

As an ex prison officer - we were taught during our basic training that we were not there to punish, their sentence and resitriction of liberty is the punishment, the prison is purely there so that their sentence is served safely.

[GiRTh]

Originally posted by Sunny_01
As an ex prison officer - we were taught during our basic training that we were not there to punish, their sentence and resitriction of liberty is the punishment, the prison is purely there so that their sentence is served safely.

Abnsoutely. I agree. I can't believe people who think that prisoners should be horsewhipped daily. Many prisoners come out reformed characters and it would be sad for society to so easily give up on people due to mistakes that they may have made.

On the other hand we have career criminals and serial killers. We must not show leniency but where do you draw the line. In america a sixteen years old who's complicit to a murder can be charged with the death penalty if it's sufficiently horrendous crime. We should never be killing 16 year old kids. But that's just my own personal opinion.

[J.C.]

I have changed my view a few times over the years,and I think I have eventually come to the conclusion that its a very bad idea. If nothing else , there is an almost certain chance that there would be rare mistakes,and if 1 innocent person was executed out of even 200, I think we as a country would be as guilty as other 199 .However I feel strongly that proper life imprisonment should be applied far more often than it is. If they are going to apply human rights laws for the welfare of prisoners then they can damm well apply them for children and all other potential victims.