UK: 11year olds to learn about Rape in schools

[arista]

Sounds OK
so long as the parents know whats being taught
debated all morning on Live TV and Live radio


Whats your views

https://beliefdelusion.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/image124.png?w=578&h=359

[Niamh.]

hhmmm I don't know, just going by my own son who's almost 11, I think he's too childlike yet. They're only learning about sex in school atm. I think dropping sexual assault into the mix just yet is too much, too soon

[arista]

hhmmm I don't know, just going by my own son who's almost 11, I think he's too childlike yet. They're only learning about sex in school atm. I think dropping sexual assault into the mix just yet is too much, too soon


But you must understand to Learn
Rape is Evil
it must be taught from 11 years on

[arista]

https://bossip.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/john-baylo.jpg?w=700
In USA this Evil Man raped a 11 year old boy


He got 25years in Jail
http://bossip.com/1062176/hide-ya-kids-former-bible-thumpin-radio-jock-popped-for-raping-11-year-old-michigan-boy-43081/


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/british-schools-teach-11-year-olds-sex-rape-article-1.2141815

[Livia]

I think all kids need to know how to be safe and how to voice their fears if they're feeling threatened or vulnerable. I don't think they need to know too much about the actual act... they're already made to grow up really fast.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yes warn them about bad people, what is private (ie no one should touch you here save your mummy or at a doctors etc) and keep the specifics away from them

[Nedusa]

Not OK..........this is not OK this will never be OK to teach "Rape" to 11 year olds.

I've heard a lot of stupid hare brained ideas in my time, but teaching pre-pubescent child about the dangers of Rape is truly awful.

I cannot even imagine the impact of telling a young girl about what may happen to her in graphic detail. Beggars belief anyone would think this is a good idea.

Epic Fail...................

[Niamh.]

But you must understand to Learn
Rape is Evil
it must be taught from 11 years on

Yes I suppose I was looking it it in the wrong way, if you mean "stranger danger" and inappropriate touching kind of a thing, then yes I agree

[arista]

Not OK..........this is not OK this will never be OK to teach "Rape" to 11 year olds.

I've heard a lot of stupid hare brained ideas in my time, but teaching pre-pubescent child about the dangers of Rape is truly awful.

I cannot even imagine the impact of telling a young girl about what may happen to her in graphic detail. Beggars belief anyone would think this is a good idea.

Epic Fail...................



No its not like that
its telling them its Wrong , Illegal etc

[AnnieK]

I think all kids need to know how to be safe and how to voice their fears if they're feeling threatened or vulnerable. I don't think they need to know too much about the actual act... they're already made to grow up really fast.

Yes warn them about bad people, what is private (ie no one should touch you here save your mummy or at a doctors etc) and keep the specifics away from them

Agree with these.....they also need to be taught that even if someone says bad things will happen if you tell they won't, bad stuff with end.

[arista]

Loose WomenHD are going to debate the 11 year old Rape teaching


No JSP on panel

[arista]

Yes I suppose I was looking it it in the wrong way, if you mean "stranger danger" and inappropriate touching kind of a thing, then yes I agree


Yes Right and Wrong

[arista]

Debated now Live on LooseWomenHD

ITV1HD
STVHD
ITV1


Ruth is For it
Rod Stewarts wife is on the fence

Also Bruno Mars track on the radio had Sex in it - the lady on the end said

[Ninastar]

Yes warn them about bad people, what is private (ie no one should touch you here save your mummy or at a doctors etc) and keep the specifics away from them

yeah, I agree with this as well.

I remember I was sick at school when we lived in America and the school couldn't contact my mum or dad and the second option to come and collect me was our female neighbor. But she was at work and when the school called her home, her husband came and picked me up. I didn't really mind, I was just happy to not be at school. Anyway so he took my back to his house and lets me watch the TV on the couch.

My mum picks me up like 20 mins later or so and as soon as we're alone, she's like 'Did he touch you anywhere? Did he watch you get changed?' etc etc etc and I had literally no idea why she was asking me all this. He didn't do anything and stayed away from me the whole time.

Anyway, a few years later when we live in the UK, we find out that this man has been arrested and sent to jail for doing something 'indecent' to his own daughter. I'm glad my mum made her judgements and could tell that there was something strange about him. And I think she was right to ask me if anything happened. I think if I had known what 'could' have happened, I'd have not gone outside the house every again.

[Jessica.]

Yes, they should definitely be given age appropriate information and advice. I'm sure schools would only touch lightly on the topic for children so young but they really need it. I know primary and early secondary school children are extremely savvy but there are many exceptions, I didn't know anything about this when I was 11, I thought children were only abused by men in white vans who offer you sweets, but statistics show that the abuser us highly likely to be someone the child knows personally. It's very important to keep them informed.

[Kizzy]

I'd say it was a good thing, at 11 kids are at high school with lots of older ones so they're never going to be 'sheltered' like they are at home or at primary. They might have to go to high school alone and come home alone, parents just cam't be with them 24/7 so it's best they are fully aware of any situations they could encounter... It's a sad fact that this is one.

[Nedusa]

This - exactly.

Agree......we should teach them about Stranger Danger and inappropriate touching. But don't we do that already.

No need to explain "Rape" to an 11 year old is all its graphic gory detail. That would itself be a form of rape... raping the young girls innocence away. Pretty tenuous analogy I know but we have no right to thrust an 11 year old mind into full on sexual deviancy.

[arista]

I'd say it was a good thing, at 11 kids are at high school with lots of older ones so they're never going to be 'sheltered' like they are at home or at primary. They might have to go to high school alone and come home alone, parents just cam't be with them 24/7 so it's best they are fully aware of any situations they could encounter... It's a sad fact that this is one.


Yes times have changed

[arista]

Yes, they should definitely be given age appropriate information and advice. I'm sure schools would only touch lightly on the topic for children so young but they really need it. I know primary and early secondary school children are extremely savvy but there are many exceptions, I didn't know anything about this when I was 11, I thought children were only abused by men in white vans who offer you sweets, but statistics show that the abuser us highly likely to be someone the child knows personally. It's very important to keep them informed.

Yes its got to be Positive Education
but on the LooseWomenHD panel
it was Split

[Mokka]

Agree......we should teach them about Stranger Danger and inappropriate touching. But don't we do that already.

No need to explain "Rape" to an 11 year old is all its graphic gory detail. That would itself be a form of rape... raping the young girls innocence away. Pretty tenuous analogy I know but we have no right to thrust an 11 year old mind into full on sexual deviancy.

Why do you assume they are going to make it graphic or gory??
I have taught my children from a young age about inappropriate touching, and my daughter and I have discussed and watch documentaries about women all over the world faced with forced marriage and rape. I have never made it graphic or gory.

There is a common sense way to present the topic and to discuss it. Since children seem to be inundated with media sexualization and we are being told teens are becoming sexually active at the age of 12 or earlier... why not let them know that sex at that age is inappropriate, that no one should make you feel like it is ok to have sex so young, and that they have the power to say no or to stop it from happening?

[Nedusa]

Why do you assume they are going to make it graphic or gory??
I have taught my children from a young age about inappropriate touching, and my daughter and I have discussed and watch documentaries about women all over the world faced with forced marriage and rape. I have never made it graphic or gory.

There is a common sense way to present the topic and to discuss it. Since children seem to be inundated with media sexualization and we are being told teens are becoming sexually active at the age of 12 or earlier... why not let them know that sex at that age is inappropriate, that no one should make you feel like it is ok to have sex so young, and that they have the power to say no or to stop it from happening?

The way you describe above would be OK but you are not really discussing Rape as that would require a discussion that would necessitate some pretty dark descriptions . So I think the word rape is a bit misleading in this context.

[Mokka]

The way you describe above would be OK but you are not really discussing Rape as that would require a discussion that would necessitate some pretty dark descriptions . So I think the word rape is a bit misleading in this context.

I think that is my point as well overall. Rape is a bad word and holds very violent and disgusting images in society as a whole... but for children to be aware about rape factually, that your neighbour, uncle, dad, aunty, etc... are not showing you love by performing these sexual acts to you or with you, is information they need to know so that later in life it doesn't come back on them when they realize they were allowed to say no or tell someone what was happening.

Rape is dark yes, but it also happens to children through manipulation because they don't know it is dark. We don't need to scare them, we need to give them a voice and the power to say no to it.

[smudgie]

Perhaps it would go down better if it was taught as sexual assault rather than rape at this age.
Teach the children that touching or being touched is not only inappropriate but not their faults if it is someone else doing the touching.
Children can know it doesn't feel right, but don't always know how to cope with it. Especially if if is someone they know or family.
If these lessons give them the confidence to tell somebody about it instead of feeling guilty and frightened then I am all for it.

[Kizzy]

Wouldn't that just be more confusing... if a child was attacked and they didn't know it was 'rape' then how could they explain what had happened to them...They wouldn't have a clue how, what or why.

[user104658]

Some kids at 11 are developmentally ready to learn about things like this - others won't be ready. Either just won't understand, or will be scared by it. So... the only answer is to keep it out of schools and allow parents to decide what their children are ready to learn about. I don't believe in "age appropriate" as a number... all 5 year olds, 11 year olds, 15 year olds are at different stages. Of course, that's a flaw with the school system all-round.

They could teach about assault in general though - that people hurting you, or getting in your personal space when you don't want them to, in ANY context is "not OK" and you can tell them to back off, and if someone hurts you in any way then you should always tell someone that you trust. That pretty much covers it without even having to mention sexual assault or rape at all. It's an assault, and if you teach that ANY assault is wrong, then that should be enough.

[user104658]

Wouldn't that just be more confusing... if a child was attacked and they didn't know it was 'rape' then how could they explain what had happened to them...They wouldn't have a clue how, what or why.

Well, they could say that they were attacked / hurt by someone and then describe in what way and it should then be pretty obvious.

Like I said I think 11 is just slightly too young for some children. Not for others. I was quite "worldly" as a young child, I loved TV and movies and age ratings were never a concern, and I would say I probably knew and understood a lot of the world's "uglies" from at least 9 or 10. On the other hand, I know a girl who was terrified watching "Doctor Who" when she was 11, and didn't sleep for weeks. So it's just too much for some.

13/14 I would say is a better age for learning about these things in more detail, as that's when most teenagers will have started to develop sexually and some will have started to "experiment" a bit. I do think it's important to educate about it then.

[Kizzy]

With the risk of infection it's more important a child knows the specific difference between sexual touching and rape I'd say, as kids go to high school at 11 they learn all the subjects they need to carry them through into adulthood, personally I think that includes awareness of abuse of all kinds.

[AnnieK]

I would agree that it should be the parents judgement call and responsibility but as not all parents will discuss these things for a multitude of reasons basics should be covered in school. I honestly don't know at what age though although just starting high school I guess is a good time as the will be very little fish in a big pond and need to know what is acceptable and what not.

[joeysteele]

I haven't any children myself but thinking back to when I was 11, it was actually around that time that my older Brothers started informing me as these issues.

At School, I had already heard older lads of 14 and 15 going on about it too so I agree with Nicky Morgan on this one.

Sadly, in this day and age, children need to be warned of the dangers they face, and I would still guess this will be done in a sensitive,constructed and sensible way from 11 onwards.

I think it is not before time too really, Parents should be the ones to inform as to these issues but so many don't know how to or even want to I would guess.
11 may seem young, but better warned of the dangers and know as much as is possible to relay than finding out in the worst possible way and ending up scarred for life possibly.

[arista]

I haven't any children myself but thinking back to when I was 11, it was actually around that time that my older Brothers started informing me as these issues.

At School, I had already heard older lads of 14 and 15 going on about it too so I agree with Nicky Morgan on this one.

Sadly, in this day and age, children need to be warned of the dangers they face, and I would still guess this will be done in a sensitive,constructed and sensible way from 11 onwards.

I think it is not before time too really, Parents should be the ones to inform as to these issues but so many don't know how to or even want to I would guess.
11 may seem young, but better warned of the dangers and know as much as is possible to relay than finding out in the worst possible way and ending up scarred for life possibly.


Yes on this one point
Conservative Education Sec. Nicky Morgan
is right.

but sadly
on LooseWomenHD
on the panel half agree
half do not - typical


I can not check on Mumsnet
as they want to beat me up with Kitchen Pastry Wood Roller

[smudgie]

Wouldn't that just be more confusing... if a child was attacked and they didn't know it was 'rape' then how could they explain what had happened to them...They wouldn't have a clue how, what or why.

Might be, but sexual assault is more common than the child rape I think.
Once you teach them to be confident to talk to someone about it,and that it is not their fault, then surely it would follow that they would tell someone about being raped as well.
The majority of these assaults are by somebody known to the victim, very difficult for the child to talk about it, especially if it is someone they trust and love.
In an ideal world the parents would teach their kids, unfortunately, sometimes it is the parents that are assaulting their kids.

[Rob!]

Absolutely should be taught in my view - there's so little point in wrapping kids in cotton wool and waiting for them to hit a certain age before you decide that they're ready to learn about the dark aspects of the world. Girls especially should be made aware of it - they need to know what it is, how to recognise when it could happen and what to do and who to go to if God forbid it should ever happen. Certainly more useful than ****ing algebra.

[lostalex]

i remember learning about "bad touching" from a very early age, not sure how old, but definitely very young. I think it's good to teach kids from as early as possible, obviously the language you use for small kids is different than the language you use to teach older kids. but it's definitely important to teach kids how to recognize abuse and molestation from a very young age.

Also it needs to be taught in the schools, because most kids are raped/molested by family members, so you can't trust families to teach the children themselves.

[Firewire]

We got sex ed at 11, well the basics of puberty and how a baby is made etc so I think it's only right that children are taught about molestation and abuse so they can speak up about it

[Angelika]

....we should teach them about Stranger Danger and inappropriate touching. But don't we do that already.

Statistics show that children are far more at risk of sexual grooming and abuse from adults already in their family or circle of friends.

Stranger Danger, while done to death for years, never prepares a child for the well known and loved adult in their close family circle who takes advantage of them. How does one tell children that those who love them most may be the dangerous adults in their lives!

There are countless examples of fathers, brothers, uncles, school masters, doctors, teachers, hostel staff, carers, staff in nursery and play school etc. who have been responsible for the greatest threat to young children.

I don't know the solution to this terrible problem other than having our children cared for by robots.

[JoshBB]

When I was 11, "rape jokes" (which really piss me off) were considered funny and something to laugh about. I think if people were educated at a young age they would see that it really is not funny while protecting them from rapists at the same time. I think it's a really good move.

[joeysteele]

When I was 11, "rape jokes" (which really piss me off) were considered funny and something to laugh about. I think if people were educated at a young age they would see that it really is not funny while protecting them from rapists at the same time. I think it's a really good move.

That's a very good point indeed JoshBB, really well said.