Should The UK renew its Nukes? or not

[arista]

Both Conservative and Labour
say they will renew the Weapons based in Scotland
using Billions of tax payers money.


Many do not want them
as they say we no longer need them etc?

[MTVN]

Yes I think so, we should accept that peaceful international relations do rely on a balance of power and our possession of nuclear weapons is a part of that balance, else we leave France as the only western European power who holds them. Of course ideally we'd live in a nuclear free world but you can never be rid of the technology and the knowledge that gave birth to them, and even if you could convince every present government to give up their weapons - which would not happen anyway - we can never know what the next generation of leaders will do

[Nedusa]

No .........I think we should adopt the Green Party's defence plans, that is to say we should scrap all Nuclear weapons preferring instead to build a very large hedge that follows the perimeter of the UK

[arista]

Yes I think so, we should accept that peaceful international relations do rely on a balance of power and our possession of nuclear weapons is a part of that balance, else we leave France as the only western European power who holds them. Of course ideally we'd live in a nuclear free world but you can never be rid of the technology and the knowledge that gave birth to them, and even if you could convince every present government to give up their weapons - which would not happen anyway - we can never know what the next generation of leaders will do


Yes France
a Nation that would use them
more than us

[arista]

No .........I think we should adopt the Green Party's defence plans, that is to say we should scrap all Nuclear weapons preferring instead to build a very large hedge that follows the perimeter of the UK


That would help the NHS

[Crimson Dynamo]

i think we should keep them in Ireland as they have space and it would be cheaper

[arista]

i think we should keep them in Ireland as they have space and it would be cheaper

Northern Ireland could hold them
but it costs so much

[Crimson Dynamo]

Northern Ireland could hold them
but it costs so much

use the south where their are no cities or wifi

[JoshBB]

No .........I think we should adopt the Green Party's defence plans, that is to say we should scrap all Nuclear weapons preferring instead to build a very large hedge that follows the perimeter of the UK

i was with you until i detected the sarcasm on the large hedge thing.

my opinion on defence is this:

have what we need for DEFENCE (eg. a sufficient army, whatever the technical stuff is)

nuclear weapons are NOT defence and cannot be justified, they are dangerous not only to other innocent lives but to our own country as well. what if they were to malfunction?

100bn pounds on nuclear weapons is really not justified when we have things like a 8bn nhs gap, also we could use that to reduce the deficit and improve other public services, give some working class people lower taxes. help the starving kids in africa.

[arista]

use the south where their are no cities or wifi


Do not Upset the Irish Mods

[arista]

i was with you until i detected the sarcasm on the large hedge thing.

my opinion on defence is this:

have what we need for DEFENCE (eg. a sufficient army, whatever the technical stuff is)

nuclear weapons are NOT defence and cannot be justified, they are dangerous not only to other innocent lives but to our own country as well. what if they were to malfunction?

100bn pounds on nuclear weapons is really not justified when we have things like a 8bn nhs gap, also we could use that to reduce the deficit and improve other public services, give some working class people lower taxes. help the starving kids in africa.


Why is that our problem?

[kirklancaster]

No .........I think we should adopt the Green Party's defence plans, that is to say we should scrap all Nuclear weapons preferring instead to build a very large hedge that follows the perimeter of the UK

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2: YEW must be joking. :joker::joker::joker:

[kirklancaster]

use the south where their are no cities or wifi

:joker::joker::joker: What about all the Racecourses?:fist:

[kirklancaster]

That would help the NHS

You are most wise Arista - if you mean the New Hedge Society.:laugh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

:joker::joker::joker: What about all the Racecourses?:fist:

no, give them courses on cooking, pugilism and ploughing

these are useful for their agrarian feudal lifestyle

[kirklancaster]

no, give them courses on cooking, pugilism and ploughing

these are useful for their agrarian feudal lifestyle

:joker::joker::joker:

[bots]

100bn pounds on nuclear weapons is really not justified when we have things like a 8bn nhs gap, also we could use that to reduce the deficit and improve other public services, give some working class people lower taxes. help the starving kids in africa.

A fantastically funded NHS will not be much good when we've been nuked by Iran and North Korea to name but a couple. The reason countries listen to what the UK says is for one reason, and one reason only - we are a nuclear power

[Kizzy]

maybe that's why the tories cosy up to hedge fund bosses? we're building a hedge around the UK and they're funding it:laugh:

[JoshBB]

Why is that our problem?

because they are human beings and we shouldn't stop caring for people just because they were born in a different country and aren't as lucky as us

[arista]

because they are human beings and we shouldn't stop caring for people just because they were born in a different country and aren't as lucky as us


Under Corrupt African Leaders



So No Way

[Vicky.]

Nukes are going to end human life (and possibly everything bar cockroaches) completely IMO. Dont see why anyone has them...

[Kizzy]

:clap1:

[Nedusa]

i was with you until i detected the sarcasm on the large hedge thing.

my opinion on defence is this:

have what we need for DEFENCE (eg. a sufficient army, whatever the technical stuff is)

nuclear weapons are NOT defence and cannot be justified, they are dangerous not only to other innocent lives but to our own country as well. what if they were to malfunction?

100bn pounds on nuclear weapons is really not justified when we have things like a 8bn nhs gap, also we could use that to reduce the deficit and improve other public services, give some working class people lower taxes. help the starving kids in africa.

Actually this official Green Party defence policy.....:blush:

[Kizzy]

Have ours gone out of date then?

[bots]

Have ours gone out of date then?

Its not so much that the warheads have gone out of date, but delivery mechanisms and targetting will always need improving. Thats where the money goes. So the investment is more in those things which are applicable to many missile systems, not just nuclear. We already have more nuclear material than we could ever possibly need, and these days that production is relatively dirt cheap.

If the politicians made this more clear, I think people would find it more acceptable.

[Kizzy]

Oh god that old we need to update computer systems chestnut then?
Look how inept they were at doing that in the welfare system! for gods sake I hope they don't ask IDS for advice we'll all be dust!

[kirklancaster]

Nukes are going to end human life (and possibly everything bar cockroaches) completely IMO. Dont see why anyone has them...

I agree that the entire concept of nuclear weapons is complete insanity, but unfortunately - as Matt says - they exist, and if the 'bad guys' have them, then we too must have them - "A knife is a pretty useless weapon in a gun fight".

Considering all the wars and violence that has ravaged this planet since 1945, when the first nuclear bomb was detonated in New Mexico, it is total stupidity for anyone to claim that; 'The Nuclear Bomb Has Kept The Peace', but for us to 'Unilaterally Disarm' ie; do away with our nuclear defence system without other ALL other countries doing the same, is sheer suicidal folly, and by ALL other countries, I mean our current allies as well as our current enemies, because - as history as taught us - 'today's friends' can often be 'tomorrow's enemies'.

Also as Matt says, even if other countries DID agree to 'Multilateral Nuclear Disarmament', there really is no method which guarantees that they will actually do so, or that even if they do, that they won't at some future time covertly restore their nuclear arsenals.

The thought of certain 'crackpot regimes' having nuclear weapons terrifies me because it is akin to baboons wielding 'AK 47's, and I firmly believe that the very first nuclear warhead launched in hostility will not hail from any of the Western democracies or Russia, but from one of these regimes.

This probability alone is all the justification needed to renew or upgrade our Nuclear DEFENCE Capability whatever the cost in sterling.

[Northern Monkey]

^what Kirk said.
Our country's defence is already depleated.Britain used to have the best navy in the world.In the Falklands in 1982 we apparently had access to 60 warships and frigates,Now we have 19 with only about 7 which will be deployable at one time.Our Army has been cut and will supposedly be down to 50,000 in the next four years.We need a nuclear deterent,Without it we will have hardly any political power on the world stage.Russia is modernising its military why the hell are we cutting ours?
While nuclear weapons exist,We need them.While there is a possiblity countries like Iran have them or are close to having them,We need them.While North Korea have them,We need them.While there is any slight chance a terrorist could possibly make one,We need them.
Our governments number one priority should be the protection and security of the British people.
I certainly don't want to live in a weak defenceless country.
Why should we have to rely on the US and France to defend us?Why not stand on our own two feet and take responsibility for our own defence.Why should other countries have to carry us?

[Livia]

She should get rid of them all... the day after everyone else gets rid of theirs.

[joeysteele]

i was with you until i detected the sarcasm on the large hedge thing.

my opinion on defence is this:

have what we need for DEFENCE (eg. a sufficient army, whatever the technical stuff is)

nuclear weapons are NOT defence and cannot be justified, they are dangerous not only to other innocent lives but to our own country as well. what if they were to malfunction?

100bn pounds on nuclear weapons is really not justified when we have things like a 8bn nhs gap, also we could use that to reduce the deficit and improve other public services, give some working class people lower taxes. help the starving kids in africa.


I have to say you talk amazing sense,I love reading your posts,you have a great sensitivity as to issues.

I would myself, prefer to keep Trident, I don't see why it needs to be house in Scotland however if the Scots don't want it there.
had the Scots voted for independence, they should have been able to insist it was moved, take it down to the affluent South, who like all these things on others doorsteps but not their own.

I also think it could be looked at as to whether we need all 4.
Savings on it,even without getting rid of it altogether, could as you point out, help massively in other areas of issues affecting UK citizens.
Really good points from you again JoshBB.

This govt; has done shocking and actually in my view, dangerous things as to our defences with probably more cuts to come too,as you indicate also, that needs addressing too.

[billy123]

Somebody has to take the first step.
Nobody in possession of nuclear weapons is in any position to tell anybody to stop developing their nuclear capabilities.
What right have Britain,America or anybody to throw their arms up in the air in disgust at Iran,North Korea or anybody for that matter for developing nuclear capabilities when we are in possession of enough to wipe any country off the face of the planet.

Keep them and deal with the fact that everybody has the right to own them or get rid of them and gain the right to try and stop the development and ownership of them by anyone.
There are a lot better minds than mine trying to answer the question keep or get rid but it doesn't take a genius to work out that unless somebody makes a brave first move to disarm then nobody will.
I personally hope Britain can disarm and lead the way forward.

[Jamesy]

If it would cost billions I would rather see this money pumped into existing defenses, which have received pretty severe cuts under the current government.