UK jobless total at seven-year low

[Crimson Dynamo]

Unemployment in the UK has continued to fall and the number of people in work has continued to rise, according to the latest official figures.

The number of people out of work in the January to March period fell to 1.83 million, down 35,000 from the previous quarter and the lowest for seven years.

At the same time, the total number in work rose to 31.1 million.
Average pay for employees, excluding bonuses, rose by 2.2% in the quarter compared with a year earlier.

Including the effect of bonus payments, average pay rose by 1.9% over the same period.

The figures mean that regular pay is now growing at its fastest rate for nearly four years.

It is also the seventh month in a row that the rate of regular pay increases has outstripped the prevailing annual rate of inflation, as measured by the consumer prices index.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32719779

:clap1: Great news

and the news that food prices are at a 9 year low

[Livia]

Waits for the inevitable claims that this is false and the resurrection of the 'food banks' argument.

[Denver]

This is BS as they don't what about people on zero hour contracts or those who have been sanctioned as there not accounted for

[joeysteele]

This is BS as they don't what about people on zero hour contracts or those who have been sanctioned as there not accounted for

I have said for ages, the people that are on 16 hour contracts,(which is really only part time work),and that is actually what all the staff are on at my local Supermarket, except for Supervisors and dept; heads.

Also everyone on a zero hours contract, whether happy to be on one or not, should still be classed as not being in full time work at all and therefore not 'fully' employed.

So for me both the 'those in employment figures', and the current 'unemployed' figure are misleading.
Anyone not in full time work, in my view is not in full employment, and we should have that breakdown so better judgements can be made as to who is in good full time regular work and who is not.

I have been saying that for years.

[Crimson Dynamo]

62 labour MPS employed people on zero hours contracts during 2013

Ed Balls used 4

[Jack_]

Who gives a crap about massaged employment figures when some of those are forced to work for free to retain their benefits, many of those are on zero hours contracts, many of those have very little job security and a lot of those aren't paid anywhere near enough to live on comfortably.

[MTVN]

Who gives a crap about massaged employment figures when some of those are forced to work for free to retain their benefits, many of those are on zero hours contracts, many of those have very little job security and a lot of those aren't paid anywhere near enough to live on comfortably.

I doubt that those people are considered to be 'employed' though

[Crimson Dynamo]

Only 5 labour mps voted against the austerity cuts before the election

seems odd

[Jack_]

Only 5 labour mps voted against the austerity cuts before the election

seems odd

And the Conservatives backed Labour's spending plans in 2007/8 which they so vehemently criticised during the campaign

seems odd

[bots]

Critics will just not accept when things are moving in the right direction with the economy and it doesn't tie in with their own ideals. Its crazy.

Every hour worked whether it be part time, full time or jolly roger time is benefiting the economy, our services and the well being of the people in our country. Stop whining and accept that great strides are being made in the recovery of this country

[Jack_]

Critics will just not accept when things are moving in the right direction with the economy and it doesn't tie in with their own ideals. Its crazy.

Every hour worked whether it be part time, full time or jolly roger time is benefiting the economy, our services and the well being of the people in our country. Stop whining and accept that great strides are being made in the recovery of this country

People's livelihoods > the economy

Guess I must just be a more compassionate person than most to care more about standards of living than deficit reduction.

And before someone mentions it, it is a myth that the latter has a positive impact on the former. If people aren't paid enough to sustain a sufficient standard of life, who gives a flying **** if the economy is improving for those in the middle and at the top?

[Crimson Dynamo]

The plan is working and the public have backed it

#roadtorecovery

[Jack_]

The plan isn't working but the public has fallen for it it

#roadtoruin

Your avatar is very offensive, please remove it :yuk:

[Livia]

Your avatar is very offensive, please remove it :yuk:

Remember when we used to be able to have a balanced, adult discussion about politics in here? Seems like a faded memory.

[Toy Soldier]

I would personally just like it if there were a breakdown of the figures as, in my opinion, the only figures that are relevant are where people are in 30+ hours per week of employment. Not making claims either way - those figures may well have improved too - I don't know, because no one seems to be releasing them :shrug:.

"People in work" just objectively means nothing at all. 6 hours of minimum wage a week is "in work".

[Jack_]

Remember when we used to be able to have a balanced, adult discussion about politics in here? Seems like a faded memory.

lol serious debates hasn't been like that in a long time and I certainly haven't played a role in making it like that

[Livia]

lol serious debates hasn't been like that in a long time and I certainly haven't played a role in making it like that

No you haven't Jack. I was talking generally. And actually, I can remember when it was a much nicer place to be than it is now.

[Toy Soldier]

Remember when we used to be able to have a balanced, adult discussion about politics in here? Seems like a faded memory.

Check you out Livia, pretending like you haven't been part of the problem. :hmph:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Your avatar is very offensive, please remove it :yuk:

Its a beautiful hand made patchwork quilt

[Crimson Dynamo]

Check you out Livia, pretending like you haven't been part of the problem. :hmph:

http://new2.fjcdn.com/comments/5289465+_b5033e41c86914e0f0ba519f50f2f4e0.jpg

[arista]

Who gives a crap about massaged employment figures when some of those are forced to work for free to retain their benefits, many of those are on zero hours contracts, many of those have very little job security and a lot of those aren't paid anywhere near enough to live on comfortably.


Jack
Its Fecking Like that all over the World.

Many want Legit Zero hour contracts


You seem to be in the past
sadly


Feel The Force

[Livia]

Check you out Livia, pretending like you haven't been part of the problem. :hmph:

Whatever.

[arista]

Your avatar is very offensive, please remove it :yuk:


Thats what I felt like
when Kizzy had her Labour avatar

[arista]

Its a beautiful hand made patchwork quilt


Yes Quality

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yes Quality

http://th08.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2012/244/c/a/wbk_margaret_thatcher_21x23_by_workbyknight-d5d6j6u.jpg

[Livia]

Wow... that is so clever!

[Toy Soldier]

http://new2.fjcdn.com/comments/5289465+_b5033e41c86914e0f0ba519f50f2f4e0.jpg

<< Hasn't once claimed not to be part of any "divide".

My issue isn't with Livia being part of the problem, if it even is a problem (I can't say I've really found it to be much of one)... it's with her commenting on it as if she's some sort of impartial observer :joker:. Livia is so in the thick of it that she practically needs a monicker. I like "Tory-Girl" myself.

Joey can be "Miliboy" (which is frankly inspired), and I've been trying to make a case in my head for "Kizziband" but I'm not sure...

I personally like "Braveheart" or "The Scottish Swordsman" for myself. A warrior with penis magnificent in both length and girth.

Kirk... I dunno. Red Skull?

[Toy Soldier]

http://th08.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2012/244/c/a/wbk_margaret_thatcher_21x23_by_workbyknight-d5d6j6u.jpg

The question that no one else will dare ask, and that probably doesn't require an answer:

Have you made a hole where her mouth is yet?

[Livia]

I take every election as a separate thing. I haven't always voted Tory even when I was working for them, and I probably won't always in the future. For the record.

[Denver]

Am I the only UKIP supporter here?

[Tom4784]

Like Jack said, how many of those jobs are actually legitimate? Zero Hour Contracts are a cancer that shouldn't be endorsed and the Tories are using them to pad their stats and make themselves look good. Nevermind the fact that Scam 'Self employed' commision based sales posisitions have thrived under Cameron's rule.

David Cameron is incapable of answering a question directly so I'm not gonna take anything his government puts out as Gospel.

[Josy]

I doubt that those people are considered to be 'employed' though

They are though as are the ones on zero hour contracts, same goes for the people that are sent on many pointless courses that wont ever get them a job. This is how the figures are manipulated.

Also stated on the radio earlier that the figures show unemployment in England is down but it's still rising in Scotland.

[arista]

http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/01870/ed620_1870883a.jpg

Dezzy your 2 have gone

[Crimson Dynamo]

The question that no one else will dare ask, and that probably doesn't require an answer:

Have you made a hole where her mouth is yet?

:laugh2:




:fan:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Am I the only UKIP supporter here?

No Marsh is hard UKIP and Nedusa, Kirk and MB

[Toy Soldier]

I take every election as a separate thing. I haven't always voted Tory even when I was working for them, and I probably won't always in the future. For the record.

:shrug: Side-switching is perfectly legit Tibberhero canon, for now you are Tory-girl. It's really best to just accept it. Great responsibility, etc.

[Livia]

If you want to define me so narrowly, I suppose I can live with that.

[Ammi]

<< Hasn't once claimed not to be part of any "divide".

My issue isn't with Livia being part of the problem, if it even is a problem (I can't say I've really found it to be much of one)... it's with her commenting on it as if she's some sort of impartial observer :joker:. Livia is so in the thick of it that she practically needs a monicker. I like "Tory-Girl" myself.

Joey can be "Miliboy" (which is frankly inspired), and I've been trying to make a case in my head for "Kizziband" but I'm not sure...

I personally like "Braveheart" or "The Scottish Swordsman" for myself. A warrior with penis magnificent in both length and girth.

Kirk... I dunno. Red Skull?

:shrug: Side-switching is perfectly legit Tibberhero canon, for now you are Tory-girl. It's really best to just accept it. Great responsibility, etc.

...hmmm, ok I'm only going to make one post because really this section in general is just awful imo and this post will probably be deleted anyway...

..TS, I enjoy reading your posts, whether I agree with all of your opinion on various topics or not...but you're not the only person with 'observations'..I have seen several times where you have analysed, pigeon-holed and judged people/members...and that's a natural thing I guess/to have opinions about people, isn't it.. but you post your opinions on the forum about those people as if you have a right to do so..as if you know them and know who they are and you don't have that right..you don't have the right to assume that you have perfectly 'analysed' people...also on at least one occasion I myself have seen you and other posters ridicule a member when they weren't even posting in the thread at that time..so yeah, carry on with your judgement and analysing but it really imo isn't being either helpful or constructive in anything on the forum....

[JoshBB]

I'd like to see the figure without zero-hours contracts included.

[Marsh.]

No Marsh is hard UKIP and Nedusa, Kirk and MB

http://exhalecdn.breatheheavy.com/public/style_emoticons/default/gimmemoar.gif

[Toy Soldier]

...hmmm, ok I'm only going to make one post because really this section in general is just awful imo and this post will probably be deleted anyway...

..TS, I enjoy reading your posts, whether I agree with all of your opinion on various topics or not...but you're not the only person with 'observations'..I have seen several times where you have analysed, pigeon-holed and judged people/members...and that's a natural thing I guess/to have opinions about people, isn't it.. but you post your opinions on the forum about those people as if you have a right to do so..as if you know them and know who they are and you don't have that right..you don't have the right to assume that you have perfectly 'analysed' people...also on at least one occasion I myself have seen you and other posters ridicule a member when they weren't even posting in the thread at that time..so yeah, carry on with your judgement and analysing but it really imo isn't being either helpful or constructive in anything on the forum....

I don't think I've ever perfectly analyzed anyone, though I'll admit unashamedly to constantly analyzing and re-analyzing based on what's going on at the time. I don't really know where "rights" or lack thereof come into it, really... people either get offended or they don't. I don't really put much stock in "getting offended", unless things start going to serious extremes, so it's not something I tend to consider when posting.

For example; I disagree with a lot of Livia's political stances. I find some of LT's and most of Kirk's totally mind-boggling. I don't shy away from saying so but - believe it or not (and it may be hard, based on the last couple of weeks) I actually personally like all of them, they are intelligent and interesting people. I just don't care if they like me back :joker:.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I don't think I've ever perfectly analyzed anyone, though I'll admit unashamedly to constantly analyzing and re-analyzing based on what's going on at the time. I don't really know where "rights" or lack thereof come into it, really... people either get offended or they don't. I don't really put much stock in "getting offended", unless things start going to serious extremes, so it's not something I tend to consider when posting.

For example; I disagree with a lot of Livia's political stances. I find some of LT's and most of Kirk's totally mind-boggling. I don't shy away from saying so but - believe it or not (and it may be hard, based on the last couple of weeks) I actually personally like all of them, they are intelligent and interesting people. I just don't care if they like me back :joker:.

You are right

I have noticed Livia becoming more right wing since her boys got the big nod from the voting public, now that she hasnt got the libdems on her back she could become extreme

mtvn on the other hand has gone more green

:worry:

[Kazanne]

http://th08.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2012/244/c/a/wbk_margaret_thatcher_21x23_by_workbyknight-d5d6j6u.jpg

It's very clever:wavey:

[arista]

I'd like to see the figure without zero-hours contracts included.


No

[JoshBB]

No

Reaffirming my suspicions that a lot of these new jobs are zero-hours (and don't count as full-time employment).

[arista]

Reaffirming my suspicions that a lot of these new jobs are zero-hours (and don't count as full-time employment).


Sure


Its the Future

Legit Zero Hours Contracts

[Kazanne]

STOP giving us positive news,no one is interested,people want something to whinge at.:hehe:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Sure


Its the Future

Legit Zero Hours Contracts

Many people like the flexibility and if it suits the company..

[MTVN]

You are right

I have noticed Livia becoming more right wing since her boys got the big nod from the voting public, now that she hasnt got the libdems on her back she could become extreme

mtvn on the other hand has gone more green

:worry:

Don't be bloody ridiculous

[billy123]

Many people like the flexibility and if it suits the company..Prove it. Dont just keep saying it. Find some sources for this idiotic claim from the tory party. Where are all these imaginary People that apparently love these 0 hour contract Jobs. :conf: Why would anybody love not having employment rights or job security.

[arista]

Many people like the flexibility and if it suits the company..


Yes thats so true


Legit Zero Hours
even used by Kizzys Labour Party

[joeysteele]

STOP giving us positive news,no one is interested,people want something to whinge at.:hehe:

Anyone would love to get 'genuine' positive good news but when people are being told all is rosy after only 1 years better figures, following on from over 3 disastrous years, where people have not seen anything positive as to their incomes or working lives.
It is hard to get excited at the snippets we now are getting.

The Bank of England today has downgraded its growth forecast for the UK
This happened in 2010 at the point and after the austerity cuts were implemented and took effect.
We have had an easing of austerity in the run up to the election, now the cuts will be being brought in again severely soon.

Maybe this positive news you are crowing about will turn into another good period of disaster for lives nd incomes again, when those austerity measures maybe again cut off the fragile growth in place at the present time.

[Crimson Dynamo]

This great news will be welcomed by all those millions who voted for more cuts to keep the economy moving on the correct path.

[joeysteele]

I'd like to see the figure without zero-hours contracts included.

Absolutely right, I will never accept anyone is in full time employment on a zero hours contract, so if they are on one, they should still not be stated as to being in full employment.

[AnnieK]

Absolutely right, I will never accept anyone is in full time employment on a zero hours contract, so if they are on one, they should still not be stated as to being in full employment.

Being in recruitment I speak to many job seekers on a daily basis and whilst I agree there area lot of negatives with zero hour contracts, I regularly speak to people who are getting 40+ hours on zero hour contracts on good rates of oay and have turned down interview for permanent contracts because of the flexibility they get plus the hours they are offered.

It's not an ideal situation but for some they are happy with them....

[Kazanne]

Anyone would love to get 'genuine' positive good news but when people are being told all is rosy after only 1 years better figures, following on from over 3 disastrous years, where people have not seen anything positive as to their incomes or working lives.
It is hard to get excited at the snippets we now are getting.

The Bank of England today has downgraded its growth forecast for the UK
This happened in 2010 at the point and after the austerity cuts were implemented and took effect.
We have had an easing of austerity in the run up to the election, now the cuts will be being brought in again severely soon.

Maybe this positive news you are crowing about will turn into another good period of disaster for lives nd incomes again, when those austerity measures maybe again cut off the fragile growth in place at the present time.

I am not crowing,I was trying to lighten the doom and gloom,by having a lighthearted bit of banter.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I am not crowing,I was trying to lighten the doom and gloom,by having a lighthearted bit of banter.

if you cant celebrate this great news...

[joeysteele]

Being in recruitment I speak to many job seekers on a daily basis and whilst I agree there area lot of negatives with zero hour contracts, I regularly speak to people who are getting 40+ hours on zero hour contracts on good rates of oay and have turned down interview for permanent contracts because of the flexibility they get plus the hours they are offered.

It's not an ideal situation but for some they are happy with them....

I personally wouldn't ban zero hours contracts, I would prefer they didn't exist but for those that really want them, fine,as long as they 'really' do want them that is.


However a zero hours contract is what it says, great if you get many hours a week but you are not under such a contract guaranteed any.
Also under the contract and come holidays or sickness you will get no pay then either.

[Kazanne]

if you cant celebrate this great news...

http://media.giphy.com/media/inplSEbPJLgBi/giphy.gif Me right now:hehe:

[bots]

if you cant celebrate this great news...

To quote a very wise lady ... Rejoice, rejoice, rejoice

[empire]

thanks to zero hour contracts that rip off the hard working people of this country, thank you labour-tory policy, for that one

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://media.giphy.com/media/inplSEbPJLgBi/giphy.gif Me right now:hehe:

me


http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/01039/SNN0707F-380_1039046a.jpg

[Kazanne]

me


http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/01039/SNN0707F-380_1039046a.jpg

:joker::joker::joker:what happened there LT?

[Denver]

Being in recruitment I speak to many job seekers on a daily basis and whilst I agree there area lot of negatives with zero hour contracts, I regularly speak to people who are getting 40+ hours on zero hour contracts on good rates of oay and have turned down interview for permanent contracts because of the flexibility they get plus the hours they are offered.

It's not an ideal situation but for some they are happy with them....

I'm on a zero hour contract and I can go from 50 hours one week to 10 the next

[Crimson Dynamo]

:joker::joker::joker:what happened there LT?


wanking accident

:ninja2:

[Jamesy]

Zero hour contracts highly depend on your employer. I know some people who are on zero hour contracts and their hours are pretty stable and provide them with a stable income. Other people I know have one week full time then the next week one afternoon of work, with hours all over the place and no stable income to keep them living.

On the whole I'm against zero hour contracts. They're okay when you're young and live with your parents, you have someone to fall back on. Although for adults with their own home and bills and more it's not suitable at all.

[MB.]

No Marsh is hard UKIP and Nedusa, Kirk and MB

I wish you'd stop outing me this way.

[MB.]

(two of my milestone posts in a row have been about UKIP. What have I become)

[the truth]

People's livelihoods > the economy

Guess I must just be a more compassionate person than most to care more about standards of living than deficit reduction.

And before someone mentions it, it is a myth that the latter has a positive impact on the former. If people aren't paid enough to sustain a sufficient standard of life, who gives a flying **** if the economy is improving for those in the middle and at the top?

creating 2 million plus jobs IS real compassion, destroying the economy like new labour is cruelty

[the truth]

thanks to zero hour contracts that rip off the hard working people of this country, thank you labour-tory policy, for that one only 2% of jobs are zero hours so don't worry too much....besides in real politiks these workers if theyre doing a fine job will soon either be offered more work better pay and a contract or will be able to go to a bigger and better job

[Kizzy]

http://static.guim.co.uk/ni/1424862605735/zero_hours_contracts_NUMBER.svg

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/feb/25/zero-hours-contract-rise-staff-figures

[JoshBB]

People's livelihoods > the economy

Guess I must just be a more compassionate person than most to care more about standards of living than deficit reduction.

And before someone mentions it, it is a myth that the latter has a positive impact on the former. If people aren't paid enough to sustain a sufficient standard of life, who gives a flying **** if the economy is improving for those in the middle and at the top?

Preach. Thank god some people speak sense on here.

[Kizzy]

Yes thats so true


Legit Zero Hours
even used by Kizzys Labour Party

Stop using my name in your posts.

[the truth]

Preach. Thank god some people speak sense on here.

when unemployment falls.....productivity rises, crime falls, tax revenues increase so more money to pay for public services, the government is then able to lower taxes on the lowest earners and take them out of tax totally.....there are also working tax credits available to lower earners....whilst in work people rise in pay over time, learn all the time, add more experience and skills all the time, including knowledge, social skills , confidence etc make social contacts speak to potential employers and find further opportunities.....its a win win win win.......work always defeat all opponents....this is why the tories won- JOBS

[joeysteele]

only 2% of jobs are zero hours so don't worry too much....besides in real politiks these workers if theyre doing a fine job will soon either be offered more work better pay and a contract or will be able to go to a bigger and better job

With respect that all sounds good but will rarely come about.
No one should have to be on one if they don't want to be and are seeking 'real' full time work.
Far too many of a growing number of employers are probably now,in my view,exploiting these contracts and using them at times when they don't even need to.

I think with these in place,very few are likely to get a better contract and more regular hours weekly unless the employer is actually made to do so.Greedy employers are part of the problem,not the solution

[the truth]

With respect that all sounds good but will rarely come about.
No one should have to be on one if they don't want to be and are seeking 'real' full time work.
Far too many of a growing number of employers are probably now,in my view,exploiting these contracts and using them at times when they don't even need to.

I think with these in place,very few are likely to get a better contract and more regular hours weekly unless the employer is actually made to do so.Greedy employers are part of the problem,not the solution

as always youre all theory and no practice...you ignore the actual real term effects where the majority do go on to bigger and better jobs and the majority on zero hours actually like them....furthermore you ignore the record 2 million plus jobs (only 2% of them are zero hours)...thank goodness for the tories taking over from the disastrous and sick new labour movement

[joeysteele]

as always youre all theory and no practice...you ignore the actual real term effects where the majority do go on to bigger and better jobs and the majority on zero hours actually like them....furthermore you ignore the record 2 million plus jobs (only 2% of them are zero hours)...thank goodness for the tories taking over from the disastrous and sick new labour movement

Oh give it a rest, I speak my view which is what I always say it is, you challenge everyone as to this and that,then never back substantially the vast majority of what you say.

How many of those jobs are also part time jobs, oh but wait a minute, I cannot tell you, you cannot tell me, because there are really no valid official statistics to prove same.
You are rich saying someone else is all theory and no practice.

So here is an opportunity.
I throw it all back to you, show us all the official statistics as to how many people on zero hours contracts have gone on to better contracts and more hours with that employer.
Put your money where your mouth is and prove that to us from your practice!!

When you actually can do that,with official substantiated figures, then you can attack others for theory and no practice.

[the truth]

Oh give it a rest, I speak my view which is what I always say it is, you challenge everyone as to this and that,then never back substantially the vast majority of what you say.

How many of those jobs are also part time jobs, oh but wait a minute, I cannot tell you, you cannot tell me, because there are really no valid official statistics to prove same.
You are rich saying someone else is all theory and no practice.

So here is an opportunity.
I throw it all back to you, show us all the official statistics as to how many people on zero hours contracts have gone on to better contracts and more hours with that employer.
Put your money where your mouth is and prove that to us from your practice!!

When you actually can do that,with official substantiated figures, then you can attack others for theory and no practice.

more anti economic guff.....you should be ecstatic the tories have saved the economy from new labour....maybe you could provide us with evidence disproving how new labour left us skint? .no doubt that would be another new labour dodgy dossier....and just like new labour you want everyone else to do your homework for you lol

[joeysteele]

more anti economic guff.....you should be ecstatic the tories have saved the economy from new labour....maybe you could provide us with evidence disproving how new labour left us skint? .no doubt that would be another new labour dodgy dossier....and just like new labour you want everyone else to do your homework for you lol

You are the one claiming it is so, just show the statistics if there are any that is.
Or is it in fact you yourself that is just theory and no practice.
Since I see no substantiated official statistics are forthcoming at all.

Labour made many mistakes but they were not the only reason we had financial chaos by 2010.
I condemn them heavily for selling off the gold reserves and raiding pensions too.
However, while being a part,I think the financial services and Banking industry had a greater deal more to do as to that crisis.

Also, it could have been even worse, since your Conservative party between 2005 and 2008 heavily criticised labour for the banks being regulated too much,they wanted to regulate them far less at that time.
Imagine the possible added chaos as to that, had they been in from 2005 to 2010, with much less banking regulation in place.
Please don't try to say the worldwide financial banking crisis would not have happened had the Conservatives been in power.
No one in the financial world saw or warned of that coming about.

There is a few facts for you, are we going to get any from you at all.

[the truth]

[QUOTE=joeysteele;7767337]You are the one claiming it is so, just show the statistics if there are any that is.
Or is it in fact you yourself that is just theory and no practice.
Since I see no substantiated official statistics are forthcoming at all.

Labour made many mistakes but they were not the only reason we had financial chaos by 2010.
I condemn them heavily for selling off the gold reserves and raiding pensions too.
However, while being a part,I think the financial services and Banking industry had a greater deal more to do as to that crisis.

Also, it could have been even worse, since your Conservative party between 2005 and 2008 heavily criticised labour for the banks being regulated too much,they wanted to regulate them far less at that time.
Imagine the possible added chaos as to that, had they been in from 2005 to 2010, with much less banking regulation in place.
Please don't try to say the worldwide financial banking crisis would not have happened had the Conservatives been in power.
No one in the financial world saw or warned of that coming about.

There is a few facts for you, are we going to get any from you at all

did I say the crash was ALL new labours fault? ah the old new labour trick of grossly misrepresenting the other persons views, what a joke.....don't you get it new labour and the spin the anti economics the waste the lies the dodgy dossiers are all buried in a grave forever....everyone sees through this guff for what it is

As for the financial collapse loads saw it coming and loads moved their investments and loads got even richer from it....new labour simply made us more exposed to it with their deregulations of the bank (whilst regulating the hell out of the rest of society) their imbalanced economy , their enslavement to the ridiculous 587 page European constitution, oh and of coruse handing over our multi billion rebates for NOTHING in return? the utter failure to reinvest in industrial infrastructure, in building homes, in spreading wealth and jobs..way higher unemployment...more growth in state jobs....allowing ridiculous banking mergers like Lloyds tsb , failing to re nationalise anything.....their list of cataclysmic failure is endless

[joeysteele]

[QUOTE=joeysteele;7767337]You are the one claiming it is so, just show the statistics if there are any that is.
Or is it in fact you yourself that is just theory and no practice.
Since I see no substantiated official statistics are forthcoming at all.

Labour made many mistakes but they were not the only reason we had financial chaos by 2010.
I condemn them heavily for selling off the gold reserves and raiding pensions too.
However, while being a part,I think the financial services and Banking industry had a greater deal more to do as to that crisis.

Also, it could have been even worse, since your Conservative party between 2005 and 2008 heavily criticised labour for the banks being regulated too much,they wanted to regulate them far less at that time.
Imagine the possible added chaos as to that, had they been in from 2005 to 2010, with much less banking regulation in place.
Please don't try to say the worldwide financial banking crisis would not have happened had the Conservatives been in power.
No one in the financial world saw or warned of that coming about.

There is a few facts for you, are we going to get any from you at all

did I say the crash was ALL new labours fault? ah the old new labour trick of grossly misrepresenting the other persons views, what a joke.....don't you get it new labour and the spin the anti economics the waste the lies the dodgy dossiers are all buried in a grave forever....everyone sees through this guff for what it is

As for the financial collapse loads saw it coming and loads moved their investments and loads got even richer from it....new labour simply made us more exposed to it with their deregulations of the bank (whilst regulating the hell out of the rest of society) their imbalanced economy , their enslavement to the ridiculous 587 page European constitution, oh and of coruse handing over our multi billion rebates for NOTHING in return? the utter failure to reinvest in industrial infrastructure, in building homes, in spreading wealth and jobs..way higher unemployment...more growth in state jobs....allowing ridiculous banking mergers like Lloyds tsb , failing to re nationalise anything.....their list of cataclysmic failure is endless


Really who saw it coming, I heard no one say it was coming,none of all the global financial institutions, the IMF the IFS our own Bank of England.
No one saw it coming and not in any way on the scale it did.
No one, no politicians,no economists, no so called worldwide experts.

This is a side issue however, you got at me saying I was all theory and no practice.I recall I asked you in response to that getting at me, to with substantiated official figures where and how many, people on zero hours contracts got better contracts and more hours with said employers.
You may have forgotten the original point and question I put after your comment as to me, I haven't, so there it is again for you.
You say it is so, surely you have official figures as to that you can enlighten us with..

Obviously not, any way I am off to bed now, goodnight.

[Kizzy]

more anti economic guff.....you should be ecstatic the tories have saved the economy from new labour....maybe you could provide us with evidence disproving how new labour left us skint? .no doubt that would be another new labour dodgy dossier....and just like new labour you want everyone else to do your homework for you lol

They didn't save us from anything... they borrowed more in the last 5yrs than Labour in 13 remember?

'As a Conservative I have no pleasure in exposing David Cameron's deficit claims. However, as long as the party continues to talk down the economy via the blame game, confidence will not be given an opportunity to return. For it is an undeniable and inescapable economic fact: without confidence and certainty there can be no real growth.'

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it" Joseph Goebbels

lol

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ramesh-patel/growth-cameron-austerity_b_2007552.html

[the truth]

[QUOTE=the truth;7767489]
[/B]

Really who saw it coming, I heard no one say it was coming,none of all the global financial institutions, the IMF the IFS our own Bank of England.
No one saw it coming and not in any way on the scale it did.
No one, no politicians,no economists, no so called worldwide experts.

This is a side issue however, you got at me saying I was all theory and no practice.I recall I asked you in response to that getting at me, to with substantiated official figures where and how many, people on zero hours contracts got better contracts and more hours with said employers.
You may have forgotten the original point and question I put after your comment as to me, I haven't, so there it is again for you.
You say it is so, surely you have official figures as to that you can enlighten us with..

are you actually kidding me? the housing bubble was out of control for years, values doubled in under a decade.....mortgages were totally out of control....kids just out of nappies were allowed to dish out tens of thousands to customers theyd spoken to for a few minutes....defaults were everywhere.....the economy had no balance at all....the uk was an enterprise zone....the us economy has bounced back stronger because despite the poorest homes being shacks, the economy has vastly more balance. they also came down on the banks heavier. that's something the tories like labour have failed to do......

loads saw it coming but you didn't even need to be a financial expert to see the casino was about to go bust...we fell harder than anyone and took longer to get out too....it was only our keeping the pound that allowed us to save ourselves......BUT that's not to say were out of it totally, we are not. the tories must use the growth to start to build a better balanced economy as the markets always collapse and the next time they do we cant be left as exposed as we were under new labour


A number of other individuals appear to have some justification for claiming to have predicted the crisis or critical aspects of it. Some are discussed in various books and I have listed a number of pre-crisis books here. In How to Profit from the Coming Real Estate Bust, John Rubino predicted "a deep recession" (although he predicted it for 2004) and he discussed many of the same issues highlighted by other predictors including the rise in home ownership rates, the growing debt, and Hyman Minsky's research. Other book authors that may have a claim (I haven't read them or seen independent research attributions of having predicted the "crisis") include the following.
•Bill Bonner and Addison Wiggin, authors of the best sellers Financial Reckoning Day: Surviving the Soft Depression of the 21st Century (2003) and Empire of Debt: The Rise of an Epic Financial Crisis (2005)
•Mike Stathis, author of America's Financial Apocalypse: How to Profit from the Next Great Depression (2006) and Cashing in on the Real Estate Bubble (2007)
•David Decker and George Sheldon, authors of Cash in on the Coming Real Estate Crash (2006)
•Clif Droke author of America's Housing Bubble: The Real Estate Outlook for 2006-2012 (2005)
•Harry Dent author of The Next Great Bubble Boom (2004)



1.Bill Ackman (EPw, Fortune, Who’s Holding the Bag? (May 2007), and Confidence Game)
2.Sheila Bair (Chrostowski, Nocera - see also Wash Post article)
3.Dean Baker (Bezemer, EP, RA3) - Baker Survey
4.Richard Baker (Fortune 2008 & 2003)
5.Roy Barnes (Hirsh)
6.Susan Bies (Chrostowski - 2006 FOMC Transcripts)
7.Rick Bookstaber (Salon, A Demon of Our Own Design 2007)
8.Claudio Borio (Tett, Economist, Bezemer*)
9.Brooksley Born (Frontline, EPw, Chrostowski)
10.Jesse Colombo (FT, Keen, Irrera) - Colombo Survey
11.Vox Day (Hannity) - Day Survey
12.Richard Duncan (Plumberg and The Dollar Crisis 2003)
13.Marc Faber (BW)
14.Fred Foldvary (Crane, Gaffney) - Foldvary Survey
15.Robert Gnaizda (NYTimes - hat tip EPw, Gnaizda is also interviewed in Inside Job)
16.Wynne Godley (9/2/1926 – 5/13/2010) (Bezemer, RA9, NYT)
17.James Grant (BW)
18.Jeremy Grantham (BW, Ody, WSJ)
19.Jeffrey Gundlach (Barrons)
20.Fred Harrison (Bezemer, The Chaos Makers 1997, Boom Bust 2005) - Harrison Survey
21.Kenneth Heebner (WSJ - "significant decline in prices is coming"...but..."won't by itself push the economy down")
22.Michael Hudson (Bezemer, RA8)
23.Eric Janszen (Bezemer, America's Bubble Economy 2006)
24.Med Jones (EP)
25.Steve Keen (Bezemer, EP, RA1) - Keen Survey
26.Mark Kiesel (Ody)
27.Paul Krugman (EP, RA7)
28.Sir Andrew Large (Hancock and Zahawi in Masters of Nothing - hat tip Steve Denning)
29.Nye Lavalle (Morgenson, Wikipedia) - Lavalle Survey
30.Jakob Madsen (Bezemer, EP, RA12) - Madsen Survey
31.Michael Panzner (BW, Financial Armageddon 2007)
32.Frank Partnoy (FT, NPR, FIASCO (1997), and Infectious Greed (2003))
33.Ron Paul (MinnPost, Rand Paul - "During congressional hearings in 2003, Ron Paul predicted the housing crisis and market crash")
34.Ann Pettifor (RA5, The Coming First World Debt Crisis 2006) - Pettifor Survey
35.Robert Prechter (EPw, BW, Conquer the Crash 2002)
36.Raghuram Rajan (Bezemer*, EPw)
37.Andrew Redleaf (NYT)
38.Kurt Richebächer (1918–August 24, 2007) (Bezemer, RA11)
39.Stephen Roach (BW)
40.Robert Rodriguez (& Tom Atteberry) (Ody, Fortune, WSJ, and The End of Wall Street) - Rodriguez Survey
41.David Rosenberg (BW)
42.Joshua Rosner (Coming Nightmare 2004, and Where Did the Risk Go? 2007)
43.Nouriel Roubini (Bezemer, EP, RA2, BW, Ody, Fortune)
44.John Rubino (How to Profit from the Coming Real Estate Bust 2003) - Rubino Survey
45.Peter Schiff (Bezemer, EP, BW, Ody, WSJ, Crash Proof 2007)
46.Robert Shiller (Bezemer, RA6, Ody, Irrational Exuberance 2, The One Who Saw It Coming)
47.Gary Shilling (BW)
48.Paul Singer (& Jim Chanos) (Bloomberg, Benner, and WSJ)
49.Jens Kjaer Sorensen (Bezemer - The Dynamics of House Prices - International Evidence - 2006)
50.George Soros (RA10)
51.Joseph Stiglitz (RA4, Hirsh)
52.John Talbott (Bezemer*, The Coming Crash in the Housing Market 2003, and Sell Now! 2006) - Talbott Survey
53.Nassim Taleb (EPw, BW, Triana, The Black Swan (4/17/2007))
54.Christopher Thornberg (LAT) - Thornberg Survey
55.David Tice (Ody)
56.Claus Vogt (Das Greenspan-Dossier in German)
57.William White (Tett, and Early Prediction of Worldwide Banking Crisis Ignored (7/8/2009))
58.Meredith Whitney (BW, Ody, The Big Short)

[the truth]

They didn't save us from anything... they borrowed more in the last 5yrs than Labour in 13 remember?

'As a Conservative I have no pleasure in exposing David Cameron's deficit claims. However, as long as the party continues to talk down the economy via the blame game, confidence will not be given an opportunity to return. For it is an undeniable and inescapable economic fact: without confidence and certainty there can be no real growth.'

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it" Joseph Goebbels

lol

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ramesh-patel/growth-cameron-austerity_b_2007552.html

yah quoting a psycho nazi on 21st century economics is great....does that apply to new labours dodgy dossier and weapons of mas distraction too? or do you ignore that propaganda that killed a million innocents?.tell me what elvis presley said about renationalising the banks next

deficit has risen in the usa too under a democratic leader
unemployment has fallen greatly, gdp has risen, the tories have brought a better finances and their ideological push to get kids of benefits and into work will help the economy long term..........the question is how to keep improving the balance in the economy.....by 2020 with a decent proper centrist socialist leader the country may be ready for a labour leader to rebalance again but not now not yet.....new labour must first die.....we need civil liberties freedom of speech theyre our inalienable rights denied us by the fraud of new labour

[Kizzy]

yah quoting a psycho nazi on 21st century economics is great....does that apply to new labours dodgy dossier and weapons of mas distraction too? or do you ignore that propaganda that killed a million innocents?.tell me what elvis presley said about renationalising the banks next

deficit has risen in the usa too under a democratic leader
unemployment has fallen greatly, gdp has risen, the tories have brought a better finances and their ideological push to get kids of benefits and into work will help the economy long term..........the question is how to keep improving the balance in the economy.....by 2020 with a decent proper centrist socialist leader the country may be ready for a labour leader to rebalance again but not now not yet.....new labour must first die.....we need civil liberties freedom of speech theyre our inalienable rights denied us by the fraud of new labour

Hey don't shoot the messenger... But that's exactly what happened isn't it? the tories spun a lie and like the gullible twonks we are we swallowed it.
And we're still swallowing it, it seems it's private enterprises divine right to make billions in profit whilst keeping outlay to the bare minimum regardless of the effect on the workforce, safety or the environment.
This will have to change, it's not sustainable.

[the truth]

Hey don't shoot the messenger... But that's exactly what happened isn't it? the tories spun a lie and like the gullible twonks we are we swallowed it.
And we're still swallowing it, it seems it's private enterprises divine right to make billions in profit whilst keeping outlay to the bare minimum regardless of the effect on the workforce, safety or the environment.
This will have to change, it's not sustainable.

no we swallowed new labour lies and they were infinitely worse this tory government and they did less than nothing about the inequality gap....of course everything will change , balance is key.....if the tories get as lazy complacent and drunk on power as new labour did after 5 years then we will be in trouble again

[Kizzy]

no we swallowed new labour lies and they were infinitely worse this tory government and they did less than nothing about the inequality gap....of course everything will change , balance is key.....if the tories get as lazy complacent and drunk on power as new labour did after 5 years then we will be in trouble again

Ah well if you just was your own private retrospective and ignore the last 5yrs crack on, I'll bow out for the moment as you're not willing to acknowledge what's happening in the here and now.

[the truth]

Ah well if you just was your own private retrospective and ignore the last 5yrs crack on, I'll bow out for the moment as you're not willing to acknowledge what's happening in the here and now.

ive acknowledged plenty you acknowledge nothing outside your own liberal agenda.....you don't even seem to understand the last 5 years was hugely a result of the previous 13 under your party

[Crimson Dynamo]

the truth schooling the blairites

:clap1:

[joeysteele]

Ah well if you just was your own private retrospective and ignore the last 5yrs crack on, I'll bow out for the moment as you're not willing to acknowledge what's happening in the here and now.

I really admire your patience Kizzy.
You are however,in my opinion,completely wasting your time, no facts, no substantiation of official figures coming to you, all you get is attacked and no real answers to 'any' points with official facts.
Save your energy and typing for someone who has such facts to hand before they make wild statements from their own perspectives of hate or like for a particular party.

I am still waiting for the simplest of answers to a question that was asked ages ago,not a single thing forthcoming and I was told I was all theory and no practice.

All govts; get things wrong,we both know that, they will all make mistakes in power and poor decisions, they can however choose for themselves who they hit and when and how as to cuts.
That is the thing with you and I, and many others here too, we can see these are making the wrong choices and hitting cruelly the wrong people.

Wrong choices and wrong people being hit, that even if it were the labour party,or in fact any other party, hitting such people and doing that wrong to them.
You and I, for 2, would be as heated and angry with them as we are being now to the Conservative govt:
Therein lies the massive difference to how we debate.

It gives me no pleasure at all to have to, in the UK in the 21st century, attack any govt; for being discriminatory and heartless towards those in need and support,even moreso when they have other choices but still choose to do so deliberately.

[Kizzy]

I really admire your patience Kizzy.
You are however,in my opinion,completely wasting your time, no facts, no substantiation of official figures coming to you, all you get is attacked and no real answers to 'any' points with official facts.
Save your energy and typing for someone who has such facts to hand before they make wild statements from their own perspectives of hate or like for a particular party.

I am still waiting for the simplest of answers to a question that was asked ages ago,not a single thing forthcoming and I was told I was all theory and no practice.

All govts; get things wrong,we both know that, they will all make mistakes in power and poor decisions, they can however choose for themselves who they hit and when and how as to cuts.
That is the thing with you and I, and many others here too, we can see these are making the wrong choices and hitting cruelly the wrong people.

Wrong choices and wrong people being hit, that even if it were the labour party,or in fact any other party, hitting such people and doing that wrong to them.
You and I, for 2, would be as heated and angry with them as we are being now to the Conservative govt:
Therein lies the massive difference to how we debate.

It gives me no pleasure at all to have to, in the UK in the 21st century, attack any govt; for being discriminatory and heartless towards those in need and support,even moreso when they have other choices but still choose to do so deliberately.

Thanks :) I agree you can provide information, statistics, graphs, professional opinion but if some are hellbent on repeating the tory mantras without one scrap of supporting evidence bar a sun headline what can you do? :laugh:

[MTVN]

Well this is the latest info on full time employment I can find: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/final-2014-employment-figures-show-all-time-record-number-of-people-in-jobs

"Full-time jobs accounted for 95% of the rise in employment over the past year, with private sector employment rising by 637,000."

It's true that it's not all sunshine and rainbows. The biggest issue atm seems to be productivity, which Mark Carney is saying today has been worse than expected for the past seven years. It's also why they've revised down their growth expectation for the next few months. I think the thing with zero-hour contracts it not to ban them altogether but to tighten the rules and stop employers exploiting them, because they do have their place in any modern economy. Overall though the fact does remain that our economy is in pretty good shape; it's hardly booming but it is still growing, unemployment is still falling, inflation is lower than hoped but it's no cause for panic, and living standards are gradually expected to bounce back from hereon in. We might not get the good life that Cameron was promising but we should get reasonable stability, I just hope that the speed and depth of cuts that the Tories are planning don't threaten that but tbh I doubt a lot of their pledges on public spending will come to fruition anyway

[Kizzy]

Well this is the latest info on full time employment I can find: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/final-2014-employment-figures-show-all-time-record-number-of-people-in-jobs

"Full-time jobs accounted for 95% of the rise in employment over the past year, with private sector employment rising by 637,000."

It's true that it's not all sunshine and rainbows. The biggest issue atm seems to be productivity, which Mark Carney is saying today has been worse than expected for the past seven years. It's also why they've revised down their growth expectation for the next few months. I think the thing with zero-hour contracts it not to ban them altogether but to tighten the rules and stop employers exploiting them, because they do have their place in any modern economy. Overall though the fact does remain that our economy is in pretty good shape; it's hardly booming but it is still growing, unemployment is still falling, inflation is lower than hoped but it's no cause for panic, and living standards are gradually expected to bounce back from hereon in. We might not get the good life that Cameron was promising but we should get reasonable stability, I just hope that the speed and depth of cuts that the Tories are planning don't threaten that.

Revised down is tory speak for we lied about productivity and growth to win an election.
Nobody has ever suggested 0hr contracts have no place, they have a specific place it's when you use them to reduce workers employment rights in certain sectors they become an issue.
People are considerably worse off so where the sense of optimism in the face of austerity is coming from I don't know.

[MTVN]

Revised down is tory speak for we lied about productivity and growth to win an election.
Nobody has ever suggested 0hr contracts have no place, they have a specific place it's when you use them to reduce workers employment rights in certain sectors they become an issue.
People are considerably worse off so where the sense of optimism in the face of austerity is coming from I don't know.

It's the Bank of England who set the original growth forecast and they who have just revised it down, it's not the government.

The optimism comes from the fact that our economy is undeniably more stable now than it has been for a long time. The general consensus seems to be that that will be reflected in living standards soon: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d5e2997c-9123-11e4-914a-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3a6LDaL9P

Economists are confident that 2015 will be the year households finally see real rises in their standard of living. But they warn that many will still feel poorer than before the crisis.

All but six of the respondents to the Financial Times annual economists’ survey* felt that a combination of falling oil prices and wages finally starting to increase would boost households, after years of falling real incomes

[Toy Soldier]

Well this is the latest info on full time employment I can find: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/final-2014-employment-figures-show-all-time-record-number-of-people-in-jobs

"Full-time jobs accounted for 95% of the rise in employment over the past year, with private sector employment rising by 637,000."

It's true that it's not all sunshine and rainbows. The biggest issue atm seems to be productivity, which Mark Carney is saying today has been worse than expected for the past seven years. It's also why they've revised down their growth expectation for the next few months. I think the thing with zero-hour contracts it not to ban them altogether but to tighten the rules and stop employers exploiting them, because they do have their place in any modern economy. Overall though the fact does remain that our economy is in pretty good shape; it's hardly booming but it is still growing, unemployment is still falling, inflation is lower than hoped but it's no cause for panic, and living standards are gradually expected to bounce back from hereon in. We might not get the good life that Cameron was promising but we should get reasonable stability, I just hope that the speed and depth of cuts that the Tories are planning don't threaten that but tbh I doubt a lot of their pledges on public spending will come to fruition anyway

Whose living standards are expected to bounce back? Middle-class / middle income households and all those above I presume. On the back of a min-wage-slave workforce worked to the bone for peanuts whose "living standards" will continue to deteriorate, using filthy and disgraceful public transport, trying to live in filthy run down towns, and paying extortionate amounts for unstable rented accommodation that could be sold out from under them with as little as a few months notice. All seems great to me.

[Kizzy]

It's the Bank of England who set the original growth forecast and they who have just revised it down, it's not the government.

The optimism comes from the fact that our economy is undeniably more stable now than it has been for a long time. The general consensus seems to be that that will be reflected in living standards soon: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d5e2997c-9123-11e4-914a-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3a6LDaL9P

Doesn't look that stable to me.

Even as recently as the March Budget, the OBR made a forecast for growth and for tax revenues. Between the Budget and the autumn statement it revised the growth forecast up by a little bit, but revised income tax and national insurance substantially down because, owing to this year’s stagnating wages and cost of living crisis,

growth has not brought in the revenues that the Chancellor wanted. In comparison with the March Budget, we have actually lost £8.4 billion in this fiscal year, not because spending cuts have not gone ahead or tax cuts have not been delivered, but because the tax revenues have not come in as a result of growth and stagnant wages. Ultimately, the only way of reversing the problem is yes, to cut spending, and yes, to raise taxes—as the Chancellor has done in this Parliament—but also to get the economy growing in a stronger way which will bring in tax revenues. If he does not do that, the Chancellor will carry on failing year after year, as he has in this Parliament.

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2015-01-13b.738.0

[Kizzy]

'A Centre for Cities report at the end of last month noted that 80% of private sector job growth since 2010 was in London'

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2014-02-11a.719.1

[Toy Soldier]

Exactly, the supposed "recovery" is little more than smoke and mirrors, more financial bloat and fudged figures.

If, in five years time, we find ourselves with a stronger economy that has really started to work for everyone... Real hope, real opportunity, an increased quality of life for everyone because we have a richer country (and not just for those at the top) then I will GLADLY eat my words. I don't WANT the government to fail to deliver these things, believe it or not I would much rather it be the case that I am completely wrong and everything will be fine.

But they haven't come close to delivering on their promises in the last 5 years and (were I a betting man) I would bet everything I own that they won't come close in the next five years either.

[MTVN]

Well I also remember Osborne in his budget saying that employment was growing fastest in the north west and the midlands

Sure figures can be misleading, either side of the debate can point to numbers to back up their argument and contradict the other side mainly because, well, economics is complicated, and different economic measures can prove different things. One of the stupid things about this election campaign was how all parties left themselves no room for leeway and tied themselves into straight-jackets of their own making with a lot of their pledges. Its stupid to create a law to rule out tax rises or to make guarantees based on continued strong economic growth and not having a plan b. As Labour love to remind us, we are deeply affected by whatever will happen in the rest of the financial world. Fundamentally I do think we're in a fairly stable position though, and as long as the government is sensible in the next five years then the country as a whole will benefit from that

[Kizzy]

Well I also remember Osborne in his budget saying that employment was growing fastest in the north west and the midlands

Sure figures can be misleading, either side of the debate can point to numbers to back up their argument and contradict the other side mainly because, well, economics is complicated, and different economic measures can prove different things. One of the stupid things about this election campaign was how all parties left themselves no room for leeway and tied themselves into straight-jackets of their own making with a lot of their pledges. Its stupid to create a law to rule out tax rises or to make guarantees based on continued strong economic growth and not having a plan b. As Labour love to remind us, we are deeply affected by whatever will happen in the rest of the financial world. Fundamentally I do think we're in a fairly stable position though, and as long as the government is sensible in the next five years then the country as a whole will benefit from that

Well he was talking out of his anus then obviously, it's not fair to mislead the electorate but politicians do it to win votes.
I would be more inclined to believe figures presented in hansard than the sun though.
It's not the inequality in the rest of the world that is the issue it's the inequality within the UK that is becoming the focus of debate.
They can and have made promises of no tax rises, so who is paying tax...
How can 0hrs and de professionalisation lead to a stable economy?

[Crimson Dynamo]

and more good news today with the restrictions on unions

what a start for Dave and his crew :thumbs:

[Kizzy]

Links? if you mean the 40% ballot that's no big deal...

[MTVN]

Well he was talking out of his anus then obviously, it's not fair to mislead the electorate but politicians do it to win votes.
I would be more inclined to believe figures presented in hansard than the sun though.
It's not the inequality in the rest of the world that is the issue it's the inequality within the UK that is becoming the focus of debate.
They can and have made promises of no tax rises, so who is paying tax...
How can 0hrs and de professionalisation lead to a stable economy?

Well no, not obviously. If that figure is correct from the 'Centre for Cities' report it does not contradict Osborne's claim, who was saying that at the time of speaking it was the north-west which was witnessing the fastest growth in employment. Chancellor's don't just make things up. But I suppose a claim from a Labour MP = fact while a claim from a Tory MP = lie, forever and always.

Why are you talking about the Sun, who has mentioned figures of theirs? You are the only one to have mentioned that paper in this thread. I have cited a government report, a Financial Times survey and a budget speech of the chancellor. None of this credible enough?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Links? if you mean the 40% ballot that's no big deal...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/11599020/Tories-to-bring-in-tough-anti-strike-laws.html

Tories to bring in tough anti-strike laws

Sajid Javid, the new business secretary, says that the Tories will push ahead with tough new anti-strike legislation in their first Queen's Speech

:clap1:

[Kizzy]

Well no, not obviously. If that figure is correct from the 'Centre for Cities' report it does not contradict Osborne's claim, who was saying that at the time of speaking it was the north-west which was witnessing the fastest growth in employment. Chancellor's don't just make things up. But I suppose a claim from a Labour MP = fact while a claim from a Tory MP = lie, forever and always.

Why are you talking about the Sun, who has mentioned figures of theirs? You are the only one to have mentioned that paper in this thread. I have cited a government report, a Financial Times survey and a budget speech of the chancellor. None of this credible enough?

And where is Osbornes information from? You appear so suspicious of the 'Centre for Cities' report and yet take whatever the chancellor says as gospel that's why, I can't view the FT report I don't believe the government employment figures for a second.

There is reference to another FT report in the debate ( I quoted Plaids Johnathon Edwards not Labour earlier)

London

“is a giant suction machine draining the life out of the rest of the country.”

Yet the Government do precious little to rectify that. Only last month the Financial Times reported that the wealth gap between London and the nations and regions is set to widen. A professor at the London School of Economics has noted that London is the

“dark star of the economy, inexorably sucking in resources, people and energy.”

The north west may be having the fastest growth how that will benefit anyone at grass root level is debatable.

http://www.economicmodelling.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Largest-Growth-Occupations-in-North-West-in-2014b.jpg

What are Hospital services?....

[Kizzy]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/11599020/Tories-to-bring-in-tough-anti-strike-laws.html

Tories to bring in tough anti-strike laws

Sajid Javid, the new business secretary, says that the Tories will push ahead with tough new anti-strike legislation in their first Queen's Speech

:clap1:

Well that's fair enough the last strike had 80 or 90% support didn't it?

[Livia]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/11599020/Tories-to-bring-in-tough-anti-strike-laws.html

Tories to bring in tough anti-strike laws

Sajid Javid, the new business secretary, says that the Tories will push ahead with tough new anti-strike legislation in their first Queen's Speech

:clap1:

About time.

[joeysteele]

Personally,I think Margaret Thatcher knew the score as to the Unions and she knew when enough was enough.
Having done her 'enough' she did no more.

This is just pure spite now and it is incredible the dictation of the percentages they want to be voting in industrial actions ballots, when this lot are in govt; with less than 37% of the votes from those who voted in the election and even worse,only around a quarter of the whole electorate who could have.

What hypocrisy.

[MTVN]

And where is Osbornes information from? You appear so suspicious of the 'Centre for Cities' report and yet take whatever the chancellor says as gospel that's why, I can't view the FT report I don't believe the government employment figures for a second.

There is reference to another FT report in the debate ( I quoted Plaids Johnathon Edwards not Labour earlier)

London

“is a giant suction machine draining the life out of the rest of the country.”

Yet the Government do precious little to rectify that. Only last month the Financial Times reported that the wealth gap between London and the nations and regions is set to widen. A professor at the London School of Economics has noted that London is the

“dark star of the economy, inexorably sucking in resources, people and energy.”

The north west may be having the fastest growth how that will benefit anyone at grass root level is debatable.

http://www.economicmodelling.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Largest-Growth-Occupations-in-North-West-in-2014b.jpg

What are Hospital services?....

Presumably Osborne is citing the official treasury figures, choose to disbelieve them if you wish. I am hardly taking his word as gospel, I have no interest in cheerleading one side or the other.

[the truth]

thefact new labour hate these figures show how fake they are they SAY they are the people who care but they ACT like the people who dont.