Homosexuality: Are you REALLY born gay?

[Jack_]

Not really. I don't think you're wrong, I just have a different viewpoint.

I just think the way you approach a discussion is a little.... hostile when it doesn't need to be.

I think the hostility stems from the misconception I mentioned in my first post in this thread. The idea that in believing that sexuality, much like every other aspect of every human being, comes about through a process of socialisation, means that somehow that's a choice and can be changed. You know, much like how you chose your accent, and your personality, and your mannerisms, and what food you like, and what music you're into!

Rather bizarre that it has to keep being repeated so many times, but I guess it has proven my initial point right :laugh:

[Marsh.]

maybe some people fall out the pussy and get scared of it

and some like it

idk i've not read any of this and i don't know anything about it to possibly comment

If my sexuality was formed from whether I liked or didn't like the look of my MOTHER'S VAGINA then I think I'm going to go and kill myself. Goodbye.

[Daniel.]

He already knows he is.

But just like most self-respecting homosexuals, he knows when a cock is full of sh*t and calling themselves Austin.

Austin is hot af be quiet

maybe some people fall out the pussy and get scared of it

and some like it

idk i've not read any of this and i don't know anything about it to possibly comment

bye

[Marsh.]

I think the hostility stems from the misconception I mentioned in my first post in this thread. The idea that in believing that sexuality, much like every other aspect of every human being, comes about through a process of socialisation, means that somehow that's a choice and can be changed. You know, much like how you chose your accent, and your personality, and your mannerisms, and what food you like, and what music you're into!

Rather bizarre that it has to keep being repeated so many times, but I guess it has proven my initial point right :laugh:

Yes, I think it's been explained about as much as it can be. :laugh:

[Daniel.]

that's what you get when you let you heart win

[Glenn.]

:umm2:

Yes, researchers who have nothing better to do but try to theorise the world we live in in and its people in work you can't be bothered to read in order to make sense of it and try to be a progressive force for change

You can have all your stubborn 'I can't be bothered to comprehend this because it's stretches beyond what I've been taught so it must be crap!' attitude all you want. It's just a bunch of people on an internet forum who fail to understand basic societal concepts who whine on about not understanding it and so refute and ridicule it rather ironically

Is this how serious debates is supposed to work? :cheer2:

Well that's my opinion so I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree. A good effort with the patronising though. Great debating :)

[Firewire]

idk maybe who knows some people on here think they do

http://servingcinema.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/whitney-houston-shade-funny-gif-serving-cinema-joey-nolfi-oscar-blog-academy-awards-pittsburgh-predictions.gif

[Daniel.]

So do you think it's possible that people are gay but don't realise it yet? :worry: Surely they would realise it when they start to get sexual urges

[Jack_]

Well that's my opinion so I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree. A good effort with the patronising though. Great debating :)

An opinion that has no basis other than 'I don't understand what you're saying so it's wrong!', but okay sure :laugh:

Thanks very much! I hope my patronising tone was as good as your initial one? I'm glad I'm learning how to debate, I can't understand why this section has been criticised recently what with all the maturity and civility, it's brilliant :cheer2:

[Firewire]

So do you think it's possible that people are gay but don't realise it yet? :worry: Surely they would realise it when they start to get sexual urges

Some people don't know what it's like to be gay though. They may genuinely think they're straight and that everyone feels these urges. A lot of people don't come out until later in life because they've been pressured to be straight and never questioned it.

James seems sure of his sexuality though.

[MB.]

Stop arguing and enjoy cock you lot

.

[Glenn.]

An opinion that has no basis other than 'I don't understand what you're saying so it's wrong!', but okay sure :laugh:

Thanks very much! I hope my patronising tone was as good as your initial one? I'm glad I'm learning how to debate, I can't understand why this section has been criticised recently what with all the maturity and civility, it's brilliant :cheer2:

From what I've gathered, my initial ideas on what 'nuture' was hasn't changed. And I still think it's wrong. You haven't given me an example of what nurturing means because it's a million things that can contribute to it. Sexuality is infinity more complex than a few million variable that might have given you a preference.

[LukeB]

I hated it when someone came out as gay and dumped their girlfriend because of it and people were like she made him gay...

[Marsh.]

From what I've gathered, my initial ideas on what 'nuture' was hasn't changed. And I still think it's wrong. You haven't given me an example of what nurturing means because it's a million things that can contribute to it. Sexuality is infinity more complex than a few million variable that might have given you a preference.

But you don't need to have a list of the million things that influences a person's life and who they are to know it exists.

You've lived a life and got to however old you are, so you know just how many factors have been involved in getting you to the place you are right now and making you the person you are.

You don't need a tick list to see that. And you don't need the list to know that it all occurs AFTER birth and is nothing to do with genetics.

If after this entire debate you're still attributing "nurture" down to the simplistic - which town you were born in or my Dad's feelings about gay people - then you haven't read a single word.

[GLENN BILL BB7]

You cant choose your Sexuality just like you didn't choose your Gender, looks, Family, Where your from, Your personality and interests ect.

I know it sounds cheesy but its so true, You just are who you are :)

[armand.kay]

I believe all thoughts and feeling are due to your environment/experiences..

[Ammi]

....hmm, I don't know because I would say that you are born with your sexuality ..it wouldn't make sense to me otherwise because people whose whole culture and belief values are opposed to homosexuality, couldn't be environmentally influenced...I mean, people are still killed simply because of their sexuality..so how could any 'upbringing' be an influence to them...

[Ammi]

..the paedophile one is interesting though because I would have mostly said that was an environmental thing and things that they have either witnessed or experienced and not something 'born with'...but now I think that maybe it can be born with.../interesting LT..I think it was LT that posted that but I've just skimmed through the thread....

[Ashley.]

So do you think it's possible that people are gay but don't realise it yet? :worry: Surely they would realise it when they start to get sexual urges

I personally don't think homosexuality is there from birth. Scientifically, I don't see how it can be.

[Tom4784]

So do you think it's possible that people are gay but don't realise it yet? :worry: Surely they would realise it when they start to get sexual urges

I don't think that's possible if you're gay unless you've repressed it really hard and live in denial. I guess it's possible for bi people not to realise they're bi though if they favour one sex above the other, a bi person who favours straight relationships may may not know they are bi until they fall for someone of the same gender and vice versa for gay people who are actually bi.

I think if you're gay or a bisexual that has no gender preference then it's impossible not to know.

[letmein]

This is a question that can only be answered by gay people and the answer is YES.

Whether it's due to genetics or something that happens hormonally in the womb is another story.

One thing that is not debatable: it cannot be altered. Attempting to can lead to deadly consequences.

[letmein]

For the most part humans are born as blank slates and every inch of our personalities and mannerisms are learned, socialised behaviour. This includes sexuality, and gender.

We're actually hard wired. It's called survival. It's nature. We have natural/human instinct.

[letmein]

I personally don't think homosexuality is there from birth. Scientifically, I don't see how it can be.

Perhaps you can research it. :dance:

[letmein]

..the paedophile one is interesting though because I would have mostly said that was an environmental thing and things that they have either witnessed or experienced and not something 'born with'...but now I think that maybe it can be born with.../interesting LT..I think it was LT that posted that but I've just skimmed through the thread....

Please don't bring up pedophilia in a thread about homosexuality. Thanks.

[TomC]

This is a question that can only be answered by gay people and the answer is YES.

Whether it's due to genetics or something that happens hormonally in the womb is another story.

One thing that is not debatable: it cannot be altered. Attempting to can lead to deadly consequences.

Why can it only be answered by gay people? What about scientists who research it? The answer is yes in your opinion.

What if it's neither in the womb or genetics? What if it develops through early childhood? There's no scientific proof of a right answer at this stage.

We're actually hard wired. It's called survival. It's nature. We have natural/human instinct.

Yes, but how is this to do with sexuality?

[kirklancaster]

:umm2:

Yes, researchers who have nothing better to do but try to theorise the world we live in in and its people in work you can't be bothered to read in order to make sense of it and try to be a progressive force for change

You can have all your stubborn 'I can't be bothered to comprehend this because it's stretches beyond what I've been taught so it must be crap!' attitude all you want. It's just a bunch of people on an internet forum who fail to understand basic societal concepts who whine on about not understanding it and so refute and ridicule it rather ironically

Is this how serious debates is supposed to work? :cheer2:

Wow - Pot and Kettle. :shrug:

[kirklancaster]

Nobody chooses their sexuality. You're born gay, straight or somewhere in between and nothing can impact or change that.

People coming out later in life will not have chosen to be bi/gay, they would have just repressed that side of themselves.

:clap1::clap1::clap1: Exactly this.

[kirklancaster]

You won't feel that your sexuality was nurtured though or be able to pin point specific things that helped develop it, of course not. Just as you won't be able to recall specific things that created your mannerisms, your interests, your style choices, your personality, etc etc. It's not something you can really look back on and correlate saying 'yeah that caused that and x caused y', it just happens without you even knowing.

When people realise they are gay, even when they're very young, that is because their sexuality has been formed in the early years of their life. I'm sorry but I really can't buy into the notion that you're sat in the womb, or even as far back as being part sperm part egg, and already you're gagging for the d or v. Or both. Babies are the the furthest thing from sexualised you can get.

Then you are in direct opposition to the latest 'Scientific' views:

http://http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2014/11/22/are-you-born-gay-or-is-it-a-choice-scientists-might-have-found-the-answer/

There are numerous 'Scientific' 'Papers' and 'Reports' out there which all reach a similar conclusion - Gays are BORN this way.

For me people who practice a certain type of 'homosexuality' because they have been 'conditioned' into such from being children, are not REALLY gay - just 'perverted' straights.

A feral child raised in the wild by dogs/wolves (real cases) howl, walk on all fours and eat raw meat, but they remain HUMAN.

[Marsh.]

Please don't bring up pedophilia in a thread about homosexuality. Thanks.

:joker::joker::joker::joker::joker::joker::joker:

[Ashley.]

Apparently everyone's got a streak of homosexuality in them, one of my co-workers said today. :shrug:

[kirklancaster]

Apparently everyone's got a streak of homosexuality in them, one of my co-workers said today. :shrug:

I think that is perfectly true.

[JoshBB]

Apparently everyone's got a streak of homosexuality in them, one of my co-workers said today. :shrug:

I've heard that too. Possibly it's linked in with the Kinsey scale?

http://www.tuneinnotout.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/kinsey-scale.png

[Crimson Dynamo]

Apparently everyone's got a streak of homosexuality in them, one of my co-workers said today. :shrug:

the standard line when someone got drunk and gave someone a handjob in a bush


:joker:

[Ashley.]

I've heard that too. Possibly it's linked in with the Kinsey scale?

http://www.tuneinnotout.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/kinsey-scale.png

Possibly, I'm sure I remember learning about this at school.

I always think about it in percentages. Everyone's at least 1% homosexual. I wouldn't doubt it tbh.

[kirklancaster]

the standard line when someone got drunk and gave someone a handjob in a bush


:joker:

:laugh: As long as I'm the one receiving the handjob - 'I'll buy that for a dollar'. :laugh:

[Marsh.]

the standard line when someone got drunk and gave someone a handjob in a bush


:joker:

Well they do say it's about 6 pints between straight and gay.

[Crimson Dynamo]

my only gay bit is being on this site. only me, the truth sticks and arista are straight

even kirk is on the turn


...but we just have the one lesbianasexual.....:suspect:

[Marsh.]

I have my doubts about the truth. He hates vagina.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I have my doubts about the truth. He hates vagina.

could he be an angry gay?

:worry:

[Marsh.]

could he be an angry gay?

:worry:

The worst.

I've seen Cucumber. :omgno:

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/656/690/74c.gif

[Marsh.]

:joker:

[JoshBB]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/656/690/74c.gif

omg i never realised how outdated that movie looks til now

[AProducer'sWetDream]

In my opinion (as a gay person) we are not (at least not all of us) born gay. That's not to say you have any choice in the matter or can change it. But I believe that your sexuality is determined, like most other aspects of our personality, by our upbringing, memories, experiences, environment etc.

I think this happens very early on as I cannot remember a time I ever had an interest in girls, but I don't think there is a 'gay gene'. I'm happy to be proven wrong, though!

[TomC]

In my opinion (as a gay person) we are not (at least not all of us) born gay. That's not to say you have any choice in the matter or can change it. But I believe that your sexuality is determined, like most other aspects of our personality, by our upbringing, memories, experiences, environment etc.

I think this happens very early on as I cannot remember a time I ever had an interest in girls, but I don't think there is a 'gay gene'. I'm happy to be proven wrong, though!

This is my stance, and you've put it nicely!

[letmein]

In my opinion (as a gay person) we are not (at least not all of us) born gay. That's not to say you have any choice in the matter or can change it. But I believe that your sexuality is determined, like most other aspects of our personality, by our upbringing, memories, experiences, environment etc.

I think this happens very early on as I cannot remember a time I ever had an interest in girls, but I don't think there is a 'gay gene'. I'm happy to be proven wrong, though!

Well, I can confirm that your opinion is wrong.

You're welcome. :wavey:

[AProducer'sWetDream]

Don't you just love well reasoned arguments!

[letmein]

Why can it only be answered by gay people? What about scientists who research it? The answer is yes in your opinion.

What if it's neither in the womb or genetics? What if it develops through early childhood? There's no scientific proof of a right answer at this stage.



Yes, but how is this to do with sexuality?

Sexuality is hardwired. There are health benefits to sex. In order for the human race to survive, we need to reproduce. The reason why we masturbate is to let off steam as to not kill one another. Sex also socializes species. Children are also sexual beings. Boys have erections in the womb. Children explore their private parts. Anyone who's studied Freud understands this. Homosexuality takes place in the animal kingdom as well. These are not taught traits. They're biological. It's coded.

[AProducer'sWetDream]

Sexuality is hardwired. There are health benefits to sex. In order for the human race to survive, we need to reproduce. The reason why we masturbate is to let off steam as to not kill one another. Sex also socializes species. Children are also sexual beings. Boys have erections in the womb. Children explore their private parts. Anyone who's studied Freud understands this. Homosexuality takes place in the animal kingdom as well. These are not taught traits. They're biological. It's coded.

Anyone who's studied Freud will know that many psychologists dispute his conclusions about sex and sexuality, which used data gathered mostly from unreliable and ungeneralsible case studies of people who knew, understood and supported his work. His views on homosexuality were inconsistent, and at one point he stated that all humans were born bisexual, which would suggest that people who identify as either completely heterosexual or homosexual would have had to develop this throughout their early childhood.

Surely Freud supported the nurture side of the debate, believing that children initially want to copulate with their mothers before environmental factors caused them to direct their libido elsewhere?

[AProducer'sWetDream]

Surely Freud supported the nurture side of the debate, believing that children initially want to copulate with their mothers before environmental factors caused them to direct their libido elsewhere?

I should specify male children, I'm not sure about his views on female sexuality.

[TomC]

Sexuality is hardwired. There are health benefits to sex. In order for the human race to survive, we need to reproduce. The reason why we masturbate is to let off steam as to not kill one another. Sex also socializes species. Children are also sexual beings. Boys have erections in the womb. Children explore their private parts. Anyone who's studied Freud understands this. Homosexuality takes place in the animal kingdom as well. These are not taught traits. They're biological. It's coded.

Reproduction biologically can only happen between a man and a woman so surely that logic is flawed? You do have a desire to reproduce harwired but I think that's separate to who you are attracted to.

Boys may have erections in the womb perhaps but that doesn't relate to who they are attracted to!

What are not taught traits? What is biological? What is coded? There's no scientific evidence to say homosexuality is coded, which is what we're discussing. There may be a coded desire to reproduce but it's not coded whp you will be attracted to.

[AProducer'sWetDream]

What are not taught traits? What is biological? What is coded? There's no scientific evidence to say homosexuality is coded, which is what we're discussing. There may be a coded desire to reproduce but it's not coded who you will be attracted to.

This kind of sums up my beliefs- would people say that being attracted to say, blonde people, is genetically hardwired? The desire for sex, the libido, is essential for survival of the human race and so is determined by genetics, but not, in my opinion, who you are attracted to.

[Pete.]

Yes its the Cells XY XX
you are born gay or bi
or normal


Sign Of The Times

?

[AProducer'sWetDream]

Yes its the Cells XY XX
you are born gay or bi
or normal


Sign Of The Times

https://33.media.tumblr.com/fcc178ac387e5b7d11d8dbebf717f576/tumblr_nuthfy7qlR1qa62uio2_540.gif

[Ammi]

..I guess that I'm still getting my thoughts around sexuality being something that could be 'influenced' if that was the case that it was so...I mean I can understand the influence of 'stifling and repressing' ..for instance if a religious believe system of family/environment etc that would confuse someone because of the confliction with their sexuality ..so maybe something that they may even try to deny themselves for a very long time...but their sexuality would still be part of them and that wouldn't change, it would just make them unhappy and confused in their lives...?...

[Conzors]

I dont really think your born anything. Its society that assumes your born straight. I remember growing up in primary school fancying women but thats only because that was the normal thing to do at the time. Then in senior school I was figuring out what i actually liked and realised that i liked men.

People on here know my hatred for stereotypical gays who like to make themselves known (louie spence) and they are just a small minorty of gay people that gives us that bad stereotype - but thats another conversation.

In response to your question - No, I don't think your born gay (even though theres a tiny bit of evidence that suggests otherwise) I think your born nothing, but your bought up that being straight is the norm - which to an extent it is as its the most common sexuality.

[JoshBB]

I dont really think your born anything. Its society that assumes your born straight. I remember growing up in primary school fancying women but thats only because that was the normal thing to do at the time. Then in senior school I was figuring out what i actually liked and realised that i liked men.

People on here know my hatred for stereotypical gays who like to make themselves known (louie spence) and they are just a small minorty of gay people that gives us that bad stereotype - but thats another conversation.

In response to your question - No, I don't think your born gay (even though theres a tiny bit of evidence that suggests otherwise) I think your born nothing, but your bought up that being straight is the norm - which to an extent it is as its the most common sexuality.

Yeah I can relate to this. I fancied girls when I was young but only because it was seen as 'normal' to do, and now that I realise I am gay, I know that what I felt back then was not attraction at all. More just friendship.

[TomC]

Yeah I can relate to this. I fancied girls when I was young but only because it was seen as 'normal' to do, and now that I realise I am gay, I know that what I felt back then was not attraction at all. More just friendship.

Yep, I went through that too.

[Crimson Dynamo]

arista

:laugh2:

[AProducer'sWetDream]

I dont really think your born anything. Its society that assumes your born straight. I remember growing up in primary school fancying women but thats only because that was the normal thing to do at the time. Then in senior school I was figuring out what i actually liked and realised that i liked men.

People on here know my hatred for stereotypical gays who like to make themselves known (louie spence) and they are just a small minorty of gay people that gives us that bad stereotype - but thats another conversation.

In response to your question - No, I don't think your born gay (even though theres a tiny bit of evidence that suggests otherwise) I think your born nothing, but your bought up that being straight is the norm - which to an extent it is as its the most common sexuality.

:clap2:

[Smithy]

umm yes haven't you heard the song??

wV1FrqwZyKw

[letmein]

Reproduction biologically can only happen between a man and a woman so surely that logic is flawed? You do have a desire to reproduce harwired but I think that's separate to who you are attracted to.

Boys may have erections in the womb perhaps but that doesn't relate to who they are attracted to!

What are not taught traits? What is biological? What is coded? There's no scientific evidence to say homosexuality is coded, which is what we're discussing. There may be a coded desire to reproduce but it's not coded whp you will be attracted to.

You simply are too limited for this subject. Do your research; finish school.

[letmein]

I dont really think your born anything. Its society that assumes your born straight. I remember growing up in primary school fancying women but thats only because that was the normal thing to do at the time. Then in senior school I was figuring out what i actually liked and realised that i liked men.

People on here know my hatred for stereotypical gays who like to make themselves known (louie spence) and they are just a small minorty of gay people that gives us that bad stereotype - but thats another conversation.

In response to your question - No, I don't think your born gay (even though theres a tiny bit of evidence that suggests otherwise) I think your born nothing, but your bought up that being straight is the norm - which to an extent it is as its the most common sexuality.

*You're

[Marsh.]

Sexuality is hardwired. There are health benefits to sex. In order for the human race to survive, we need to reproduce. The reason why we masturbate is to let off steam as to not kill one another. Sex also socializes species. Children are also sexual beings. Boys have erections in the womb. Children explore their private parts. Anyone who's studied Freud understands this. Homosexuality takes place in the animal kingdom as well. These are not taught traits. They're biological. It's coded.

Yes, our sexual desire is natural and part of human nature.

But our sexual preferences are not.

If our sexuality was "hardwired" then surely the human race as a whole would be attracted to the same things / or attracted to everyone. But we're not.

The whole purpose of sex for humans biologically is to reproduce so obviously homosexual feelings does not stem from that. Unless you're of the belief that homosexuality came about to control overpopulation but I find that preposterous.

[kirklancaster]

When I was young and me mam got preggie
I prayed for a little bruvver.
But she went and had bloody triplets
One of each and one of the uvver. :laugh:

What does it all REALLY matter?

We are what we are and are who we are. Departure points are unimportant, it's arrival at our destination and the journey in between which matter.

'Tempus Fugit' and Life is Short', so make the best of it, and enjoy every precious moment.

[armand.kay]

Yes, our sexual desire is natural and part of human nature.

But our sexual preferences are not.

If our sexuality was "hardwired" then surely the human race as a whole would be attracted to the same things / or attracted to everyone. But we're not.

The whole purpose of sex for humans biologically is to reproduce so obviously homosexual feelings does not stem from that. Unless you're of the belief that homosexuality came about to control overpopulation but I find that preposterous.

100% agree. I think to be attracted to someone is natural but who you're attracted to depends on you're environment. This would also explain why people tend to be more attracted to their own ethnicities. And why different cultures have different standards of beauty.

[lostalex]

100% agree. I think to be attracted to someone is natural but who you're attracted to depends on you're environment. This would also explain why people tend to be more attracted to their own ethnicities. And why different cultures have different standards of beauty.

actually that doesn't explain it at all, because diversity is actually evolutionarily preferable, the bigger the gene pool the more a species can flourish. So if it was all about reproduction then people would be less attracted to people of similar ethnicities and similar backgrounds.

[lostalex]

Personally i think being gay is just like being left handed. Most people are right handed, but some people are left handed. Most people are heterosexual, but some people are homosexual. It's just a natural variance in some of the species.

Why are some people naturally gifted at music and art? Why are some people naturally inclined towards math and science? It's just the natural differences in the way our brains develop. Why are some people very outgoing and some people are very shy?

We are a very diverse species and it's all completely natural.

[armand.kay]

actually that doesn't explain it at all, because diversity is actually evolutionarily preferable, the bigger the gene pool the more a species can flourish. So if it was all about reproduction then people would be less attracted to people of similar ethnicities and similar backgrounds.

I didn't say it was all about reproduction that's the whole point of my post lol. I'm basically trying to say that the urge to reproduce (i.e. Getting turned on, being horny etc) is innate while who your attracted to isn't. So yeah evolutionary it doesn't make sense why someone would be more attracted to their ethnicity but socially it does.

[lostalex]

I didn't say it was all about reproduction that's the whole point of my post lol. I'm basically trying to say that the urge to reproduce (i.e. Getting turned on, being horny etc) is innate while who your attracted to isn't. So yeah evolutionary it doesn't make sense why someone would be more attracted to their ethnicity but socially it does.

IC, i misunderstood you, but i still don't agree that it is all about environmental influences that decide who you are sexually attracted to. My brother was raised the same way i was by the same parents in the same environment but he's straight.

He grew up in the same family, in the same schools, the same church, with the same TV shows, the same music, in the same society, but he is straight and i am gay

[armand.kay]

Maybe some people do have a gay disposition but I think the impact of your environment is undermined and I think a lot of research lately could be a bit bias because people are looking for a gay gene of some sort to support the born this way theory.

[lostalex]

Maybe some people do have a gay disposition but I think the impact of your environment is undermined and I think a lot of research lately could be a bit bias because people are looking for a gay gene of some sort to support the born this way theory.

like i said before, it's just as simple as some people are left handed. who cares that some people are different?

Why do we even care why some people are gay or left handed? some people just are. stop treating them like **** and there is no problem there's no reason to even think about it.

How much thought do you put into why some people are left handed or are artistic or are good at math? just accept that everyone is different.

[armand.kay]

IC, i misunderstood you, but i still don't agree that it is all about environmental influences that decide who you are sexually attracted to. My brother was raised the same way i was by the same parents in the same environment but he's straight.

He grew up in the same family, in the same schools, the same church, with the same TV shows, the same music, in the same society, but he is straight and i am gay

Yeah but you can never 100% recreate someone's childhood experiences etc like it's highly unlikely people treated you both exactly the same especially if you're both difrent ages (are you? idk lol). I could also argue that you both have similar genetics how comes he or other family members aren't gay too (again I'm totally guessing. Also if it was totally genetics then how can a set of identical twins have different sexual orientations? i mean they have identical dna :shrug:

[lostalex]

Yeah but you can never 100% recreate someone's childhood experiences etc like it's highly unlikely people treated you both exactly the same especially if you're both difrent ages (are you? idk lol). I could also argue that you both have similar genetics how comes he or other family members aren't gay too (again I'm totally guessing. Also if it was totally genetics then how can a set of identical twins have different sexual orientations? i mean they have identical dna :shrug:

the point is, who cares. no one spends this much time thinking about why identical twins if one prefers brown haired girls and one prefers blondes. Who the hell cares???

no one should care why you are attracted to who you are attracted to. it just is how it is.

[armand.kay]

like i said before, it's just as simple as some people are left handed. who cares that some people are different?

Why do we even care why some people are gay or left handed? some people just are. stop treating them like **** and there is no problem there's no reason to even think about it.

How much thought do you put into why some people are left handed or are artistic or are good at math? just accept that everyone is different.

Idk I'm just really fascinated by human behaviour in general and yeah I'm left handed so I have thought a bit about it :laugh:

[lostalex]

Idk I'm just really fascinated by human behaviour in general and yeah I'm left handed so I have thought a bit about it :laugh:

my mom was left handed, and she told me stories that back when she was growing up the teachers used to scold her and and even hit her if they caught her writing left handed. back then they believed they could "train" people to be right handed, there must be something wrong with them if they were left handed.

[user104658]

There's actually been lots of research into left-handedness in neuropsychology, so yeah... It's not true to say that no one wants to figure out why it happens :joker:.

Basically I think it's fine to want to know (about lefties, about homosexuality, or whatever) so long as the motivation is purely curiosity and not some attempt to brand it as anything negative.

[lostalex]

There's actually been lots of research into left-handedness in neuropsychology, so yeah... It's not true to say that no one wants to figure out why it happens :joker:.

Basically I think it's fine to want to know (about lefties, about homosexuality, or whatever) so long as the motivation is purely curiosity and not some attempt to brand it as anything negative.

I haven't seen nearly as much public interest in left handed ness as i have homosexuality, TOY soldier.... I certainly haven't heard of anyone being killed for being left handed recently...

you missed the point by a mile. the point is, why does it matter? if we could make every one right handed why would we want to??

[Ashley.]

This thread isn't about making everyone straight though and questioning LGBT+ people, it's about understanding how our sexualities develop from early life and why. There's a lot of things that don't really matter, but it's an interesting talking point and something to discuss.

[TomC]

You simply are too limited for this subject. Do your research; finish school.

Dear, oh dear. Perhaps you don't have the capacity to write a logical response to what I said, hence you reverted to patronization. And why all you responded to the other person was to correct a spelling mistake.

There is no research to be done on how and when sexuality develops. There is no proved scientific evidence yet. So how can I be too limited?

[lostalex]

This thread isn't about making everyone straight though and questioning LGBT+ people, it's about understanding how our sexualities develop from early life and why. There's a lot of things that don't really matter, but it's an interesting talking point and something to discuss.

The answer is, no one knows, and it doesn't matter. it really is that simple.

NO ONE KNOWS AND IT DOESN'T MATTER.

it's the exact same answer to the question are people born straight? but we don't have a long history of straight people tested and tortured and raped and killed in the pursuit of the answer to that question do we...

[user104658]

Short answer: personal issues don't belong in a scientific question. I get that there are all sorts of wounds and feelings mixed up in a question like this but they really have nothing to do with the question.

Why does rain fall? Why does the sun rise? And then why does the earth rotate?

Do the answers to any of those questions "matter"? Were the people who figured them out trying to stop those things from happening? Is there anything" wrong" with any of those things?

Of course not, but that doesn't mean that the answers aren't interesting. I promise you as someone with a psychology degree... Despite what most people seem to misconceive, 95% of the study of psychology has absolutely nothing to do with changing or "fixing" people. It's just about attempting to understand how and why people think, out of simple human curiosity.

[Northern Monkey]

So all lefties are gay?


Well i'm ambidextrous so i must be bi :eek:

I actually remember when i got my ear pierced when i was a teen and everyone told me to get my left one done cos if i did my right one i'd be gay.True story.Wonder if it's related,Are gays all right eared?Idk:laugh:

[Ashley.]

So all lefties are gay?


Well i'm ambidextrous so i must be bi :eek:

I actually remember when i got my ear pierced when i was a teen and everyone told me to get my left one done cos if i did my right one i'd be gay.True story.Wonder if it's related,Are gays all right eared?Idk:laugh:

I don't think that's what they were saying. Albeit I have no ****ing clue what they're saying, but they're not saying that. :laugh:

[user104658]

So all lefties are gay?


Well i'm ambidextrous so i must be bi :eek:

I actually remember when i got my ear pierced when i was a teen and everyone told me to get my left one done cos if i did my right one i'd be gay.True story.Wonder if it's related,Are gays all right eared?Idk:laugh:

No but, hypothetically, lefties and homosexuals might be very slightly braindamaged. D: THAT'S NOT JUDGEMENT it's just valid neuropsychological theory.

[Marsh.]

the point is, who cares. no one spends this much time thinking about why identical twins if one prefers brown haired girls and one prefers blondes. Who the hell cares???

no one should care why you are attracted to who you are attracted to. it just is how it is.

Except the research isn't restricted to sexuality. It's delving into everything about us as people and how our brains work.

I don't see why they shouldn't research it tbh.

[Marsh.]

No but, hypothetically, lefties and homosexuals might be very slightly braindamaged. D: THAT'S NOT JUDGEMENT it's just valid neuropsychological theory.

That's why they're so much better at giving head? :omgno:

[user104658]

That's why they're so much better at giving head? :omgno:

Left-handed people?

[Marsh.]

Short answer: personal issues don't belong in a scientific question. I get that there are all sorts of wounds and feelings mixed up in a question like this but they really have nothing to do with the question.

Why does rain fall? Why does the sun rise? And then why does the earth rotate?

Do the answers to any of those questions "matter"? Were the people who figured them out trying to stop those things from happening? Is there anything" wrong" with any of those things?

Of course not, but that doesn't mean that the answers aren't interesting. I promise you as someone with a psychology degree... Despite what most people seem to misconceive, 95% of the study of psychology has absolutely nothing to do with changing or "fixing" people. It's just about attempting to understand how and why people think, out of simple human curiosity.

:clap1: Humans need to get over themselves and stop being so defensive.

[Marsh.]

Left-handed people?

Both. :omgno:

[user104658]

Both. :omgno:

brb I'm off out to find myself a gay southpaw :smug:

[kirklancaster]

So all lefties are gay?http://cdn.thisisbigbrother.com/editor/separator.gif


Well i'm ambidextrous so i must be bi :eek:

I actually remember when i got my ear pierced when i was a teen and everyone told me to get my left one done cos if i did my right one i'd be gay.True story.Wonder if it's related,Are gays all right eared?Idk:laugh:

Thank **** I'm a Right Wing Fascist then. :laugh:

[AProducer'sWetDream]

Yeah I'm both left handed and gay which is probably one of the many reasons I'm so interested in psychology. Where do these differences come from? Is there a reason for them? I'm just a very curious person and find the idea of studying who we are and why we are this way fascinating.

[Firewire]

no you're either born a fish or not a fish

[Marsh.]

brb I'm off out to find myself a gay southpaw :smug:

:joker:

[Marsh.]

What about people who hold their pen like a knife?

[user104658]

What about people who hold their pen like a knife?

Or the fact that I am definitely right-handed, and yet I hold my fork in my right hand and my knife in my left hand which is apparently "wrong". I can't eat the other way, I drop food everywhere :shrug:

[Ashley.]

What about people who hold their pen like a knife?

I thought you grow out of that? :shrug:

[Marsh.]

I thought you grow out of that? :shrug:

You wouldn't believe.

[Ashley.]

I'm weird because I hold my pen vertical, everyone I know writes with their pen slanted.

[Marsh.]

I'm weird because I hold my pen vertical, everyone I know writes with their pen slanted.

Ya ****ing weirdo man

[Ashley.]

section me

[Ashley.]

we're going a little off topic so something something gay something something born this way something environment

[Marsh.]

What about a gay pencil?

[Ashley.]

typed that in on google images and tae fcuk did i get

http://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/612312/80428093.jpg

[Marsh.]

:laugh2:

[Northern Monkey]

typed that in on google images and tae fcuk did i get

http://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/612312/80428093.jpg

Oh god!:joker:

[kirklancaster]

What about a gay pencil?

Unfortunate - especially one with no lead. :laugh:

Mines a propelling pencil - with lots of lead :hehe:

[kirklancaster]

typed that in on google images and tae fcuk did i get

http://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/612312/80428093.jpg

FFS :joker: - Marsh has corrupted you. :hehe:

[Ammi]

..I may be wrong but I guess why I find it hard to think sexuality is more an environmental thing..is that, that would go more with the 'pray it away' type thing and more a choice...it is 'learned' so can be un-learned...

...anyways these threads get confusing after a while..:laugh:..

[Mystic Mock]

My thoughts on this is that people choose to be gay.





















Being serious my thoughts on this are that your sexuality doesn't start to form until you're near the end of Primary School and about to go into your teenage years.

[Marsh.]

Being serious my thoughts on this are that your sexuality doesn't start to form until you're near the end of Primary School and about to go into your teenage years.

How do you explain my Kate Winslet induced erections in the 1990s? :fist:

[Mystic Mock]

How do you explain my Kate Winslet induced erections in the 1990s? :fist:

How old was you when I was barely turning 3 by the end of the decade?:laugh:

[kirklancaster]

How do you explain my Kate Winslet induced erections in the 1990s? :fist:

:laugh: I was fixated on beautiful Kate's breasts and pussy for a while Marsh. I called it my 'TIT an NICK' phase. :hehe:

[user104658]

I was fixated on beautiful Kate's breasts and pussy for a while Marsh

ffs this isn't what I needed to read at 11.20am...

[Ammi]

How do you explain my Kate Winslet induced erections in the 1990s? :fist:

..well at that age it would have probably been the same effect with the iceberg...:wink:..and we both know that the iceberg was the most exciting part of the movie anyway...

[Northern Monkey]

..well at that age it would have probably been the same effect with the iceberg...:wink:..and we both know that the iceberg was the most exciting part of the movie anyway...

Oh idk.Leo drowning was pretty exciting too.I love a happy ending:laugh:

[Marsh.]

How old was you when I was barely turning 3 by the end of the decade?:laugh:

I was 6 or 7 when I watched Titanic for the first time. :flutter:

[Marsh.]

..well at that age it would have probably been the same effect with the iceberg...:wink:..and we both know that the iceberg was the most exciting part of the movie anyway...

:joker:

[Marsh.]

:laugh: I was fixated on beautiful Kate's breasts and pussy for a while Marsh. I called it my 'TIT an NICK' phase. :hehe:

:omgno:

[kirklancaster]

ffs this isn't what I needed to read at 11.20am...

It won't hurt you to get your head out of those psychology books for a couple of minutes. :hehe:

[kirklancaster]

..well at that age it would have probably been the same effect with the iceberg...:wink:..and we both know that the iceberg was the most exciting part of the movie anyway...

:laugh:

[farhad]

Your surroundings can influence your mind and actions. Theres no scientific verification that approves the genetic inborn concept. It's pseudo science which has been nullified by top scientific researchers like niel whitehead who is non biased and non religious dna scientist. This idea is just a media propaganda to confuse onces own identity and in the long run will have adverse effects. My view is you can be gay, but forcing these discourse into the schools to children is wrong and in many ways will further influence the youngster.

[Mystic Mock]

I was 6 or 7 when I watched Titanic for the first time. :flutter:

How would you even know your sexuality at that age? Unless it's more of a subconscious feeling?

[letmein]

How would you even know your sexuality at that age? Unless it's more of a subconscious feeling?

Children are sexual beings. Haven't you ever heard of "puppy love"? It's always there. It grows over time, the attraction, that is. You just don't have a name for it.

[letmein]

Your surroundings can influence your mind and actions. Theres no scientific verification that approves the genetic inborn concept. It's pseudo science which has been nullified by top scientific researchers like niel whitehead who is non biased and non religious dna scientist. This idea is just a media propaganda to confuse onces own identity and in the long run will have adverse effects. My view is you can be gay, but forcing these discourse into the schools to children is wrong and in many ways will further influence the youngster.

Oh, stop. :hehe:

[Mystic Mock]

Children are sexual beings. Haven't you ever heard of "puppy love"? It's always there. It grows over time, the attraction, that is. You just don't have a name for it.

It's just weird to me because I was about 9 when I saw Claire from Heroes in a Cheerleading outfit if you get what I mean.:joker:

[Ashley.]

Maybe there's a possibility that you are born gay, because there's been research into if sexuality is in the brain and thus already decides for you when you are born.

[Marsh.]

How would you even know your sexuality at that age? Unless it's more of a subconscious feeling?

I didn't know my sexuality. I didn't force myself to get an erection. :fist:

[Crimson Dynamo]

It's just weird to me because I was about 9 when I saw Claire from Heroes in a Cheerleading outfit if you get what I mean.:joker:

i was listening to an ages old Chris Moyles show today and he was telling the team about Heros (it had not aired in the UK then) and he was perving over Claire:joker:

:drool:

[Z]

I don't think any good will come of the day they manage to pinpoint why some people are homosexual while others are not. It will only lead to people trying to 'cure' or get rid of homosexuality/homosexuals in general and that opens up a huge can of worms that I'm not sure anyone wants to discuss.

Personally, I think that when you're born, your development is a combination of physical and mental growth and your mental growth is heavily influenced by your environment. It surely explains why people are gay or are scientific or artistic or any other of a million other things that people can be. I don't know what 'causes' people to be gay but I think it's within the realms of possibility that you can 1) be predisposed to being gay due to your genes and/or 2) you 'become' gay through some mystery factor(s) at a young age, so it's therefore neither a choice nor something you're born with.

I suppose I think that way because I've met gay people who have gay siblings - twice I've met gay guys who also have two gay brothers; my current flatmate is gay and his sister is a lesbian... and on the other hand, both of my brothers are heterosexual. I believe one day people will understand how and why it happens but it may be that it's still something that's out of human control.

[Johnnyuk123]

I somewhat disagree with people who say that you're "born" gay. While this is the case for some people, I think some people can "develop" homosexuality in their later life and begin to show an interest for the same gender over a certain period of time.

What are your thoughts on this?

Everyone is aware that some people are born deaf and blind or with learning difficulties and the rest etc and none of those born this way asked to be born like this at all but they were, yet no one questions the validity of those people at all ( as they should not ).... so yes, it is fair to say that people are born gay, just like many people just happen to be born straight. Bottom line for me is that people are simply just people. Nothing more and nothing less. Just people. ):wavey:

[Marsh.]

Everyone is aware that some people are born deaf and blind or with learning difficulties and the rest etc and none of those born this way asked to be born like this at all but they were, yet no one questions the validity of those people at all ( as they should not ).... so yes, it is fair to say that people are born gay, just like many people just happen to be born straight. Bottom line for me is that people are simply just people. Nothing more and nothing less. Just people. ):wavey:

Why you're comparing it to these physical conditions I have no idea.

[Johnnyuk123]

Why you're comparing it to these physical conditions I have no idea.

So you believe that being gay is not something born from birth?:wavey:

[Johnnyuk123]

Why you're comparing it to these physical conditions I have no idea.

So basically you are saying that being born blind or deaf is ok but we should never compare that with anyone being born gay cos that never happens?:joker: Don't make sense to me.:joker:

[Johnnyuk123]

All those blind deaf and gay folks are up in arms right now.:joker::joker::joker:

[arista]

Your surroundings can influence your mind and actions. Theres no scientific verification that approves the genetic inborn concept. It's pseudo science which has been nullified by top scientific researchers like niel whitehead who is non biased and non religious dna scientist. This idea is just a media propaganda to confuse onces own identity and in the long run will have adverse effects. My view is you can be gay, but forcing these discourse into the schools to children is wrong and in many ways will further influence the youngster.

No its more simple you are born that way

[Marsh.]

So basically you are saying that being born blind or deaf is ok but we should never compare that with anyone being born gay cos that never happens?:joker: Don't make sense to me.:joker:

No I'm saying discussing the development of our personality traits and sexuality is not really the same as someone born blind or any other physical differences.

I love how you have proof people are born gay though.
All those homosexual babies right?

You seem to be saying sexuality is a physical attribute akin to blindness? Do we have gay and straight organs now?

[lostalex]

It's just weird to me because I was about 9 when I saw Claire from Heroes in a Cheerleading outfit if you get what I mean.:joker:

then you know how i felt as a 9 y/o watching American Gladiators on saturday mornings. all those super buff men in tiny little spandex singlets with hot names like Titan and Nitro and they were so angry and aggressive *drools like homer*

http://www.survivinggrays.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Nitro-American-Gladiator.jpg

http://lmnop.blogs.com/lauren/images/2007/08/08/nitro16.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_hafnvl2TIJA/TAQVpuP2JVI/AAAAAAAAQBE/WSi-EqG7Yqg/s1600/dpack01.jpg

[letmein]

then you know how i felt as a 9 y/o watching American Gladiators on saturday mornings. all those super buff men in tiny little spandex singlets with hot names like Titan and Nitro and they were so angry and aggressive *drools like homer*

http://www.survivinggrays.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Nitro-American-Gladiator.jpg

http://lmnop.blogs.com/lauren/images/2007/08/08/nitro16.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_hafnvl2TIJA/TAQVpuP2JVI/AAAAAAAAQBE/WSi-EqG7Yqg/s1600/dpack01.jpg

D::o:worship:

[Marsh.]

Ngl he is probably the reason I have gay tendencies. Quite an awakening to preteen shaun. Bye though!

Ref: Ryan Thomas

.

/Case closed

[Shaun]

don't use me for your agenda marsh :fist:

[Ashley.]

So basically you are saying that being born blind or deaf is ok but we should never compare that with anyone being born gay cos that never happens?:joker: Don't make sense to me.:joker:

Thats a pretty dumb comparison,

[Mystic Mock]

i was listening to an ages old Chris Moyles show today and he was telling the team about Heros (it had not aired in the UK then) and he was perving over Claire:joker:

:drool:

Chris Moyles has taste.:dance::joker:

[Mystic Mock]

then you know how i felt as a 9 y/o watching American Gladiators on saturday mornings. all those super buff men in tiny little spandex singlets with hot names like Titan and Nitro and they were so angry and aggressive *drools like homer*

http://www.survivinggrays.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Nitro-American-Gladiator.jpg

http://lmnop.blogs.com/lauren/images/2007/08/08/nitro16.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_hafnvl2TIJA/TAQVpuP2JVI/AAAAAAAAQBE/WSi-EqG7Yqg/s1600/dpack01.jpg

I could only imagine Lostalex.:laugh:

[Johnnyuk123]

[QUOTE=Marsh.;8207013]No I'm saying discussing the development of our personality traits and sexuality is not really the same as someone born blind or any other physical differences.

I love how you have proof people are born gay though.

Do you or anyone have proof that people are born straight?

[Crimson Dynamo]

[QUOTE=Marsh.;8207013]No I'm saying discussing the development of our personality traits and sexuality is not really the same as someone born blind or any other physical differences.

I love how you have proof people are born gay though.

Do you or anyone have proof that people are born straight?

When I was born I slapped the midwifes arse

:fan:

[Ashley.]

I love how you have proof people are born gay though.

Do you or anyone have proof that people are born straight?

Just because you're not born gay doesn't mean you're born straight. We're talking about being born with sexuality, not as a straight or gay person.

[Ashley.]

When I was born I slapped the midwifes arse

:fan:

Because she was standing in the way of the hot Doctor?

[Ashley.]

Can people learn to quote properly please.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Because she was standing in the way of the hot Doctor?

A doctor at a birth?

[Ashley.]

A doctor at a birth?

Yes

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yes

How many births have you been to?

[Ashley.]

How many births have you been to?

One

[Crimson Dynamo]

One

:joker:

[kirklancaster]

[QUOTE=Johnnyuk123;8207985]

When I was born I slapped the midwifes arse

:fan:

:laugh: Only slapped? Couldn't you reach for a proper grope? :hehe:

[Crimson Dynamo]

[QUOTE=LeatherTrumpet;8207990]

:laugh: Only slapped? Couldn't you reach for a proper grope? :hehe:

:shrug: I only had short arms

[Marsh.]

No I'm saying discussing the development of our personality traits and sexuality is not really the same as someone born blind or any other physical differences.

I love how you have proof people are born gay though.

Do you or anyone have proof that people are born straight?

Where did I claim people were born straight?

Maybe read the thread and make sure you thoroughly understand the flow of discussion before clicking post on a brain fart?

Thanks.

[arista]

SkyNewsHD just reported from USA tests on Gay Gene
from testing of Twins
that had one gay , one straight etc


OK Farhad
Learn Something Pal

[Kizzy]

I think it's from birth but I can see why some would think it develops, sexuality doesn't play a part in our lives until puberty. The nature/nurture debate is an old one for most things I guess.

[letmein]

I think it's from birth but I can see why some would think it develops, sexuality doesn't play a part in our lives until puberty. The nature/nurture debate is an old one for most things I guess.

Children rub their genitals pre-puberty all the time.

[Ammi]

..I caught a little of the TV programme the other night..I haven't seen it before but I think it's a different story each time...the one that I saw was Paddy's story...she's 8years old but some of the children are much younger ...anyways, really interesting..a little off topic I guess but still interesting...her dad is such an inspirational parent as well...I guess that I just wanted somewhere to post the vid..:laugh:..because it seems like an extremely interesting series...


e71guE3JN04

[TomC]

Children rub their genitals pre-puberty all the time.

Yes, but as has been said, libido and sexuality are different.

[Kizzy]

Children rub their genitals pre-puberty all the time.

Don't go all Freudian on me :hee: That's all about the sensation and nothing about attraction (god this is so cringe)
I wouldn't say the transgender kids are relevant here as sexuality is nothing to do with in essence being the wrong sex. Whatever sexuality you identify with the majority are perfectly happy with their own sex.

[Niamh.]

Don't go all Freudian on me :hee: That's all aboutthe sensation ad nothing about attraction (god this is so cringe)
I wouldn't say the transgender kids are relevant here as sexuality is nothing to do with in essence being the wrong sex. Whatever sexuality you identify with the majority are perfectly happy with their own sex.

:laugh:

[Johnnyuk123]

SkyNewsHD just reported from USA tests on Gay Gene
from testing of Twins
that had one gay , one straight etc


OK Farhad
Learn Something Pal

Thankyou Arista for dropping truth tea on this debate. :clap1::clap1::clap1:

[kirklancaster]

[QUOTE=kirklancaster;8208138]

:shrug: I only had short arms

:laugh: