I can't rest without knowing where Maddie is

[Kazanne]

well this is an interesting read is people are interested
http://truthformadeleine.com/2012/01/gerrys-tunnel-vision/

[rubymoo]

well this is an interesting read is people are interested
http://truthformadeleine.com/2012/01/gerrys-tunnel-vision/

Thanks Kaz :wavey:

The words 'can of worms' comes to mind.....

What's really sad is that in all of this a little girl may never get the justice she deserves because there's so much speculation coming from every angle....

[Kazanne]

Thanks Kaz :wavey:

The words 'can of worms' comes to mind.....

What's really sad is that in all of this a little girl may never get the justice she deserves because there's so much speculation coming from every angle....

So true Rubymoo,I wonder of the truth will ever come to :wavey:

[Z]

My heart broke for April Jones's parents, their little girl was playing outside, they thought she was safe but she wasn't. My heart broke for Sarah Payne's parents when the same thing happened to her, and it did for Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman's parents. With the McCanns, the FACT that Madeleine going missing was more obviously avoidable (lock your door, take them with you to dinner, put them in the creche, don't take them on holiday if you don't want to be Mum and Dad for a couple of weeks and spend time with friends) immediately sets it apart from just 'don't let your kids out of your sight' scenarios like all of the above and many other high profile cases. That in itself doesn't make them guilty of anything or deserving of any criticism beyond the obvious, it's their attitude that's the problem. Everyone deals with grief differently, that much I agree on. But actively not cooperating with the authorities who are trying to eliminate all avenues of possibility in order to determine what happened or didn't happen immediately makes you look guilty of something; not physically searching for your child and immediately using past tense language, referring to 'they', 'abduction' and 'what would have been' is not natural to people who have lost someone. My friend's brother in law went missing in Glasgow last Spring and has yet to be found; the family DO NOT use past tense language and talk about him as if he's dead, they very much believe and need to believe that he is alive and that anything other than death has happened, even if it's what a lot of us assume.

But all of that could be brushed under the carpet and written off as the words and actions of people in shock and grief... if, at some point, they came around to helping the authorities to help them. Instead, they have been combative, aggressively suing anyone criticising them and have been working the media for sensationalist headlines more impressively than any reality TV or pop star could dream of. Are we any further forward in finding her? No. Is that because the McCanns, the people who know the most, have not been cooperative? Yes. We can speculate as to why that might be, and my personal belief is that they have guilty consciences, but we'll never know what happened to that little girl until they find a body, someone admits guilt or they finally open up and tell the police what they know and submit to the legal process instead of blocking it and ultimately not helping their own flesh and blood.

I think that's my real gripe with them - I don't really care what their personal motivations are for not cooperating (if they're innocent) and I'm sure (if they're innocent) those reasons are valid in some way... but their little girl is the one suffering the most as a result of this lack of cooperation and I think that makes them TERRIBLE parents and excludes them from deserving any kind of public goodwill.

[Niamh.]

Just doing a bit more reading on this, is it true that one of the Irish people who saw a man carrying a child towards the Beach actually specifically identified that man as being Gerry McCann??? :o

Praia da Luz, 03 May 2007, just before 10:00pm

The Smith family, from Ireland are returning to their apartment after a night out. As they walk, they pass a man carrying a child in his arms. The man averts his eyes from them to signal that he does not wish to speak.

Four months later, back in Ireland, the Smith family are watching TV. They see the McCanns return to the UK and observe Gerry McCann alight the aeroplane and walk across the tarmac with a sleeping Sean in his arms.

The father, Martin Smith, is shocked. He recognises the way the man turns his head down and the way the child is being held against the shoulder.

It is exactly the same as the man he saw on the streets of Praia da Luz, four months earlier.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id162.html

[Vicky.]

Just doing a bit more reading on this, is it true that one of the Irish people who saw a man carrying a child towards the Beach actually specifically identified that man as being Gerry McCann??? :o

Praia da Luz, 03 May 2007, just before 10:00pm

The Smith family, from Ireland are returning to their apartment after a night out. As they walk, they pass a man carrying a child in his arms. The man averts his eyes from them to signal that he does not wish to speak.

Four months later, back in Ireland, the Smith family are watching TV. They see the McCanns return to the UK and observe Gerry McCann alight the aeroplane and walk across the tarmac with a sleeping Sean in his arms.

The father, Martin Smith, is shocked. He recognises the way the man turns his head down and the way the child is being held against the shoulder.

It is exactly the same as the man he saw on the streets of Praia da Luz, four months earlier.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id162.html

Not quite, I believe he said he was 60 (or 80%) sure the guy was gerry that he saw..


Funnily enough after a visit from the McCanns private investigators he retracted this.

[Niamh.]

Not quite, I believe he said he was 60 (or 80%) sure the guy was gerry that he saw..


Funnily enough after a visit from the McCanns private investigators he retracted this.

Curiouser and curiouser :think:

[Vicky.]

Curiouser and curiouser :think:

Yes, the case really is not whiter than white like our press would (now) have you believe. Nor were the Portuguese police as bad as people will tell you ;)

Its usually stated in an effort to discredit the police that they didn't seal off the apartment and such. Whats rarely mentioned is that they were not called until 40 minutes after the child was discovered missing and by then there had been endless tramples through the apartment by various people. While Kate and gerry did not bother to even ****ing LOOK for their missing child?! Its all just too unbelievable and it honestly riles me sometimes that anyone can look at this and say it was an abduction by a stranger. Jesus christ...the main thing that kate says made her think of an abduction as the 'jemmied shutters' and open curtain and wind blowing through the apartment, but this never happened..no shutters had been smashed or tampered with or anything. Its just insane.

Niamh if you have developed a need to look into this, might I suggest this http://l-azzeri-lies-in-the-sun.com/Key_Problems.html . Various 'problems' with the official line. Some of the entries contain parts of personal opinion but the huge majority of it is backed up by police files and such. Having said that, reading the files is good..no opinion at all in those. Also the truth of the lie documentary is interesting if you have an hour or so to kill ;p

[Z]

Yes, the case really is not whiter than white like our press would (now) have you believe. Nor were the Portuguese police as bad as people will tell you ;)

Its usually stated in an effort to discredit the police that they didn't seal off the apartment and such. Whats rarely mentioned is that they were not called until 40 minutes after the child was discovered missing and by then there had been endless tramples through the apartment by various people. While Kate and gerry did not bother to even ****ing LOOK for their missing child?! Its all just too unbelievable and it honestly riles me sometimes that anyone can look at this and say it was an abduction by a stranger. Jesus christ...the main thing that kate says made her think of an abduction as the 'jemmied shutters' and open curtain and wind blowing through the apartment, but this never happened..no shutters had been smashed or tampered with or anything. Its just insane.

The outright lies they've told and the lack of mainstream press coverage of those lies, and the personal involvement of senior politicians all smacks of friends in high places orchestrating a cover up. They're far more intelligent than the average person, they have the connections, they're going to use both of those things to their advantage. I don't think any of that adds up to guilt on its own, but when you take it all into consideration, there's certainly a nefarious motive to all of this subversive behaviour.

[rubymoo]

Yes, the case really is not whiter than white like our press would (now) have you believe. Nor were the Portuguese police as bad as people will tell you ;)

Its usually stated in an effort to discredit the police that they didn't seal off the apartment and such. Whats rarely mentioned is that they were not called until 40 minutes after the child was discovered missing and by then there had been endless tramples through the apartment by various people. While Kate and gerry did not bother to even ****ing LOOK for their missing child?! Its all just too unbelievable and it honestly riles me sometimes that anyone can look at this and say it was an abduction by a stranger. Jesus christ...the main thing that kate says made her think of an abduction as the 'jemmied shutters' and open curtain and wind blowing through the apartment, but this never happened..no shutters had been smashed or tampered with or anything. Its just insane.

Niamh if you have developed a need to look into this, might I suggest this http://l-azzeri-lies-in-the-sun.com/Key_Problems.html . Various 'problems' with the official line. Some of the entries contain parts of personal opinion but the huge majority of it is backed up by police files and such. Having said that, reading the files is good..no opinion at all in those. Also the truth of the lie documentary is interesting if you have an hour or so to kill ;p

I watched this yesterday and found it fascinating, and possibly what really happened.....

[rubymoo]

My heart broke for April Jones's parents, their little girl was playing outside, they thought she was safe but she wasn't. My heart broke for Sarah Payne's parents when the same thing happened to her, and it did for Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman's parents. With the McCanns, the FACT that Madeleine going missing was more obviously avoidable (lock your door, take them with you to dinner, put them in the creche, don't take them on holiday if you don't want to be Mum and Dad for a couple of weeks and spend time with friends) immediately sets it apart from just 'don't let your kids out of your sight' scenarios like all of the above and many other high profile cases. That in itself doesn't make them guilty of anything or deserving of any criticism beyond the obvious, it's their attitude that's the problem. Everyone deals with grief differently, that much I agree on. But actively not cooperating with the authorities who are trying to eliminate all avenues of possibility in order to determine what happened or didn't happen immediately makes you look guilty of something; not physically searching for your child and immediately using past tense language, referring to 'they', 'abduction' and 'what would have been' is not natural to people who have lost someone. My friend's brother in law went missing in Glasgow last Spring and has yet to be found; the family DO NOT use past tense language and talk about him as if he's dead, they very much believe and need to believe that he is alive and that anything other than death has happened, even if it's what a lot of us assume.

But all of that could be brushed under the carpet and written off as the words and actions of people in shock and grief... if, at some point, they came around to helping the authorities to help them. Instead, they have been combative, aggressively suing anyone criticising them and have been working the media for sensationalist headlines more impressively than any reality TV or pop star could dream of. Are we any further forward in finding her? No. Is that because the McCanns, the people who know the most, have not been cooperative? Yes. We can speculate as to why that might be, and my personal belief is that they have guilty consciences, but we'll never know what happened to that little girl until they find a body, someone admits guilt or they finally open up and tell the police what they know and submit to the legal process instead of blocking it and ultimately not helping their own flesh and blood.

I think that's my real gripe with them - I don't really care what their personal motivations are for not cooperating (if they're innocent) and I'm sure (if they're innocent) those reasons are valid in some way... but their little girl is the one suffering the most as a result of this lack of cooperation and I think that makes them TERRIBLE parents and excludes them from deserving any kind of public goodwill.

:clap2:

[Vicky.]

I watched this yesterday and found it fascinating, and possibly what really happened.....

Honestly, I see it as the most likely thing. The abductor nonsense seems like fairytales, especially when not a jot of evidence has ever supported that theory...whereas evidence (not total, I give you that, but some) does indeed point towards the Portuguese polices' conclusion

The only part of Amarals theory that I disagree with is them moving the body in the hire car months later. I just cant get my head round that, as I don't like to think of anyone as pure evil...and to find your child dead, make such a circus of it, hide their body, then move it a month or so later..I just cannot believe anyone could do that. I believe the body was hidden that night, and possibly moved in the early hours, when gerry finally decided to go and 'search' for his missing daughter. I fully believe the only reason she hasn't been found is down to 'luck'.

[GiRTh]

Yes, the case really is not whiter than white like our press would (now) have you believe. Nor were the Portuguese police as bad as people will tell you ;)

Its usually stated in an effort to discredit the police that they didn't seal off the apartment and such. Whats rarely mentioned is that they were not called until 40 minutes after the child was discovered missing and by then there had been endless tramples through the apartment by various people. While Kate and gerry did not bother to even ****ing LOOK for their missing child?! Its all just too unbelievable and it honestly riles me sometimes that anyone can look at this and say it was an abduction by a stranger. Jesus christ...the main thing that kate says made her think of an abduction as the 'jemmied shutters' and open curtain and wind blowing through the apartment, but this never happened..no shutters had been smashed or tampered with or anything. Its just insane.

Niamh if you have developed a need to look into this, might I suggest this http://l-azzeri-lies-in-the-sun.com/Key_Problems.html . Various 'problems' with the official line. Some of the entries contain parts of personal opinion but the huge majority of it is backed up by police files and such. Having said that, reading the files is good..no opinion at all in those. Also the truth of the lie documentary is interesting if you have an hour or so to kill ;pAgree with this. The Portuguese Police looked bad due to stories that came out in our press and we now think those stories were leaked by the McCanns press team. Right from the beginning the MCCanns were very uncooperative.

[GiRTh]

The outright lies they've told and the lack of mainstream press coverage of those lies, and the personal involvement of senior politicians all smacks of friends in high places orchestrating a cover up. They're far more intelligent than the average person, they have the connections, they're going to use both of those things to their advantage. I don't think any of that adds up to guilt on its own, but when you take it all into consideration, there's certainly a nefarious motive to all of this subversive behaviour.:clap1:

[Niamh.]

Yes, the case really is not whiter than white like our press would (now) have you believe. Nor were the Portuguese police as bad as people will tell you ;)

Its usually stated in an effort to discredit the police that they didn't seal off the apartment and such. Whats rarely mentioned is that they were not called until 40 minutes after the child was discovered missing and by then there had been endless tramples through the apartment by various people. While Kate and gerry did not bother to even ****ing LOOK for their missing child?! Its all just too unbelievable and it honestly riles me sometimes that anyone can look at this and say it was an abduction by a stranger. Jesus christ...the main thing that kate says made her think of an abduction as the 'jemmied shutters' and open curtain and wind blowing through the apartment, but this never happened..no shutters had been smashed or tampered with or anything. Its just insane.

Niamh if you have developed a need to look into this, might I suggest this http://l-azzeri-lies-in-the-sun.com/Key_Problems.html . Various 'problems' with the official line. Some of the entries contain parts of personal opinion but the huge majority of it is backed up by police files and such. Having said that, reading the files is good..no opinion at all in those. Also the truth of the lie documentary is interesting if you have an hour or so to kill ;p


Thanks Vicky, been watching the you tubes Chuff linked the last few days and I will take a look at your ones too

[Suze]

There was the use of a child monitoring service wasn't there? so why did they not use it? I am beginning to wonder if maybe Madeleine was never in the apartment to start with that night. Too much focus anywhere than where it should have been re the case and that should be Madeleine, and too much hindrance maybe re the case at the start when any clues and such would have been vital.

I don't think we are ever going to know what happened unless there ever comes a time for a deathbed confession somewhere re the case.

Bless Madeleine and all the little children who go missing and are never found.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I'm sad none of you have any clue about police process

Really sad

[erinp5]

Dad left daughter, two, in car for 10 minutes and it nearly cost him his family: Dash to the chemist for Calpol classed as 'child neglect'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2846183/Father-left-sick-toddler-daughter-car-outside-chemist-ran-buy-Calpol-charged-NEGLECT-spend-year-trying-clear-name.html


And The Mc Cann's leave three children in an apt while they go and eat and drink....nothing .

Gerry Mc Cann makes my skin crawl.

[user104658]

I'm sad none of you have any clue about police process

Really sad
Are you sad that some of those who do have a vague clue about it also don't give a vague ******* about it?

[Z]

I'm sad none of you have any clue about police process

Really sad

The police have put more effort into this case than most and I think it's an affront to both our forces and the Portuguese forces involved that they have been as uncooperative as possible. Who does that when it's their missing child involved?!?

[*mazedsalv**]

I personally think as I said, they are either guilty or know something.

BUT I will post something in their defence. So, they wanted to eat out? Could they have brought the children with them? Most of these hotels have "Mini Disco" events that children go to whilst the parents are eating/drinking. BUT, what's to say that even that would be safer? How many parents have let their children go on stage for Mini Discos while the parents are near, but still out of reach? LOTS. I know me and my sister (i was 5, she was 8) were left at the Mini Disco with the other kids and the kid entertainers. BUT then again, me and my sis could have been snatched too there and then.

If your going to get snatched, you're going to get snatched. Whether it's among a group of kids (an abductor could approach a kid at the play area posing to the entertainers that they are a parent) or alone in the hotel room.

What I'm saying is what parents do nowadays is still not safe as like I said there is always a play area/mini disco in hotel resorts now, so should parents not allow kids to go to them?

[Niamh.]

I personally think as I said, they are either guilty or know something.

BUT I will post something in their defence. So, they wanted to eat out? Could they have brought the children with them? Most of these hotels have "Mini Disco" events that children go to whilst the parents are eating/drinking. BUT, what's to say that even that would be safer? How many parents have let their children go on stage for Mini Discos while the parents are near, but still out of reach? LOTS. I know me and my sister (i was 5, she was 8) were left at the Mini Disco with the other kids and the kid entertainers. BUT then again, me and my sis could have been snatched too there and then.

If your going to get snatched, you're going to get snatched. Whether it's among a group of kids (an abductor could approach a kid at the play area posing to the entertainers that they are a parent) or alone in the hotel room.

What I'm saying is what parents do nowadays is still not safe as like I said there is always a play area/mini disco in hotel resorts now, so should parents not allow kids to go to them?

Massive difference between a child being snatched by an opportunist kidnapper in a situation like what you described which is unfortunate and unlucky and actually proactively putting your child in danger, in so so so many different ways like the McCanns did by leaving essentially 3 babies alone in an unlocked apartment. I've already listed out examples of other things that could have happened to them but just take a look at that other thread in SD's about that poor 2 year old who burned to death in her apartment when a fire broke out and she'd been left alone by her mother

ETA : And that mother will probably face the full force of the law for neglect for it too as she isn't a Doctor, she's a stripper

[Crimson Dynamo]

Are you sad that some of those who do have a vague clue about it also don't give a vague ******* about it?

i am not so sad about that


:hee:

[chuff me dizzy]

Just doing a bit more reading on this, is it true that one of the Irish people who saw a man carrying a child towards the Beach actually specifically identified that man as being Gerry McCann??? :o

Praia da Luz, 03 May 2007, just before 10:00pm

The Smith family, from Ireland are returning to their apartment after a night out. As they walk, they pass a man carrying a child in his arms. The man averts his eyes from them to signal that he does not wish to speak.

Four months later, back in Ireland, the Smith family are watching TV. They see the McCanns return to the UK and observe Gerry McCann alight the aeroplane and walk across the tarmac with a sleeping Sean in his arms.

The father, Martin Smith, is shocked. He recognises the way the man turns his head down and the way the child is being held against the shoulder.

It is exactly the same as the man he saw on the streets of Praia da Luz, four months earlier.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id162.html

Glad more people are looking deeper into this,today in Sun Kate wins an award for her "Selfless work for missing children " a woman who admitted she never even looked for her own child on night one,because she was busy setting up a Limited Company in Maddies name,with herself and Gerry on the board ,making all the decisions what the cash could be used for, so they decided to use it to pay their mortgage !!

[Kizzy]

I'm sad none of you have any clue about police process

Really sad

I have a degree in it :fist:

[user104658]

in your scenario

the maccanns did something that they now regret, they and the other people thought it was ok at the time - it turned out to be a mistake in that specific situation

Take away the man or woman who snatched the child and there is no danger.

"Sorry officer, when I was hurtling down the country road at 100mph and overtook a tractor on a blind corner, I honestly thought it was OK at the time. Take away that family hatchback coming the other way that I forced off of the road, or that tree that they hit, or their tank full of petrol that exploded... and there was no danger. Am I free to go?"

The assumed outcome... hell, even the ACTUAL outcome of an act... has absolutely no bearing on whether or not that action was stupid.

[Niamh.]

in your scenario

the maccanns did something that they now regret, they and the other people thought it was ok at the time - it turned out to be a mistake in that specific situation

Take away the man or woman who snatched the child and there is no danger.

Of course there was danger, two two year olds and a 3 year old alone in an unlocked apartment and there's no danger wtf? lol Roads + Cars + Unlocked Doors + 3 year olds = Disaster for one thing, also the McCanns (apparently) were the only ones stupid enough to leave the door unlocked btw

[Crimson Dynamo]

Of course there was danger, two two year olds and a 3 year old alone in an unlocked apartment and there's no danger wtf? lol Roads + Cars + Unlocked Doors + 3 year olds = Disaster for one thing, also the McCanns (apparently) were the only ones stupid enough to leave the door unlocked btw

there are dangers like that going to the shops, leaving them at nursery etc

kids get hanged on cords of blinds while mum hoovers, they choke on lego, 58,000 children have accidents on domestic stairs each year

I saw a line of nursery kids today walking down a busy road, if one saw a dog and ran after it...

[Niamh.]

there are dangers like that going to the shops, leaving them at nursery etc

kids get hanged on cords of blinds while mum hoovers, they choke on lego, 58,000 children have accidents on domestic stairs each year

I saw a line of nursery kids today walking down a busy road, if one saw a dog and ran after it...

Answer me this then, have you ever left your kids alone at home/on holiday while you went out for a meal and some drinks, when they were babies?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Answer me this then, have you ever left your kids alone at home/on holiday while you went out for a meal and some drinks, when they were babies?

i never but my life or yours is not a template for perfection

I once picked up my eldest in her car seat thinking she was strapped in and launched her across the room, she landed on the carpet unhurt but she could have ended up in the fireplace engulfed in flames (it was horrible).

I would not have done what they did because i would have thought "what is some paedo comes and takes them" as i am naturally cautious and do not trust anyone but i understand others are different.

[user104658]

i never but my life or yours is not a template for perfection

I once picked up my eldest in her car seat thinking she was strapped in and launched her across the room, she landed on the carpet unhurt but she could have ended up in the fireplace engulfed in flames (it was horrible).

I would not have done what they did because i would have thought "what is some paedo comes and takes them" as i am naturally cautious and do not trust anyone but i understand others are different.

There's a pretty huge difference between an absent-minded accident and a reckless, yet entirely pre-planned, course of action. Everyone has accidents with their kids. When my eldest was 2, I hit a kerb with her in the buggy, and she'd climbed out of her straps. She was launched out of it about 3 feet, face down into the snow. It was ****ing hilarious. BUT of course, there could have been a rock there and it could have ended horribly. It was still an accident. There are countless stories of parents not paying attention / being aware of where a child is and reversing their car into them. Often with horrible outcomes. Still everyday accidents. Sometimes those accidents are even fatal.

...choosing to leave your children alone in an unlocked room and go for dinner, is not an accident. They didn't trip on the steps, roll a few hundred metres and land in a pile of Tapas.

[Crimson Dynamo]

There's a pretty huge difference between an absent-minded accident and a reckless, yet entirely pre-planned, course of action. Everyone has accidents with their kids. When my eldest was 2, I hit a kerb with her in the buggy, and she'd climbed out of her straps. She was launched out of it about 3 feet, face down into the snow. It was ****ing hilarious. BUT of course, there could have been a rock there and it could have ended horribly. It was still an accident. There are countless stories of parents not paying attention / being aware of where a child is and reversing their car into them. Often with horrible outcomes. Still everyday accidents. Sometimes those accidents are even fatal.

...choosing to leave your children alone in an unlocked room and go for dinner, is not an accident. They didn't trip on the steps, roll a few hundred metres and land in a pile of Tapas.

tes but TS for your scenario to work you need to add a child snatcher into it


other wise, nowt happens

[user104658]

tes but TS for your scenario to work you need to add a child snatcher into it


other wise, nowt happens

"Sorry officer, when I was hurtling down the country road at 100mph and overtook a tractor on a blind corner, I honestly thought it was OK at the time. Take away that family hatchback coming the other way that I forced off of the road, or that tree that they hit, or their tank full of petrol that exploded... and there was no danger. Am I free to go?"

The assumed outcome... hell, even the ACTUAL outcome of an act... has absolutely no bearing on whether or not that action was stupid.

I literally just posted this...

[Crimson Dynamo]

I literally just posted this...

yes but you just said we all do stupid things

some of uys are lucky, some are not

[Niamh.]

i never but my life or yours is not a template for perfection

I once picked up my eldest in her car seat thinking she was strapped in and launched her across the room, she landed on the carpet unhurt but she could have ended up in the fireplace engulfed in flames (it was horrible).

I would not have done what they did because i would have thought "what is some paedo comes and takes them" as i am naturally cautious and do not trust anyone but i understand others are different.

I rest my case though, i knew you wouldn't have because you aren't stupid and you don't come across as irresponsible either.

like you, the "someone coming into the apartment" would have crossed my mind but not as much as the - what if they wake and have an accident? What if maddie wakes and wanders out the unlocked door and gets run over? Or mainly what if they wake up crying and there's no one there to comfort them and they're absolutely terrified because they're on their own.... and even if none of those thoughts had occurred to them on their own, surely Maddie actually telling them she and her younger brother had woken up scared and alone the night before would have ticked that box for them?

[user104658]

yes but you just said we all do stupid things

some of uys are lucky, some are not

Feel like you entirely missed the point. Everyone makes absent-minded mistakes that don't end as intended and can end badly. That is NOT the same as deliberately and repeatedly doing something reckless.

I can only really use the car example again... Let's say someone genuinely thinks it's safe to overtake, at a reasonable speed, on a country road but something happens - something wrong with the car, maybe even something they could or should have noticed - and they end up forcing another car off the road and someone dies. There's still an element of fault, but when it comes right down to it, when they made that decision they didn't know how risky it was.

Now, compare that to the car doing 100mph and over-taking on a blind corner. THAT is stupid, reckless and dangerous. It's no less stupid, reckless or dangerous if the road happens to be clear and they make it round and home in one piece. The action itself is what is stupid and reckless. The fact that it might turn out fine DOES NOT MATTER.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Feel like you entirely missed the point. Everyone makes absent-minded mistakes that don't end as intended and can end badly. That is NOT the same as deliberately and repeatedly doing something reckless.

I can only really use the car example again... Let's say someone genuinely thinks it's safe to overtake, at a reasonable speed, on a country road but something happens - something wrong with the car, maybe even something they could or should have noticed - and they end up forcing another car off the road and someone dies. There's still an element of fault, but when it comes right down to it, when they made that decision they didn't know how risky it was.

Now, compare that to the car doing 100mph and over-taking on a blind corner. THAT is stupid, reckless and dangerous. It's no less stupid, reckless or dangerous if the road happens to be clear and they make it round and home in one piece. The action itself is what is stupid and reckless. The fact that it might turn out fine DOES NOT MATTER.

reckless in your mind but not theirs or the other couples

people think differently

[Niamh.]

reckless in your mind but not theirs or the other couples



people think differently


None of the other couples left the door unlocked though

[Vicky.]

None of the other couples left the door unlocked though

One of the other couples left a puking toddler though. That could easily have gone very wrong. Clearly none of the couples loved their kids enough to actually care what happened to them.

[user104658]

One of the other couples left a puking toddler though. That could easily have gone very wrong. Clearly none of the couples loved their kids enough to actually care what happened to them.
Exactly. There's only one way to describe the whole situation... They were complacent, arrogant, and reckless with the wellbeing of their children. LT's defense of this seems to be that "loads of people do it and assume it'll be OK because it usually is". Nope. It just means that loads of people are equally reckless.

[Kizzy]

Who does it? I have never known anyone to... I don't move in the right circles obviously.

[Niamh.]

Who does it? I have never known anyone to... I don't move in the right circles obviously.

Same here, the done "thing" I've experienced with both myself and other people I know who take young children on holiday is to take your kids to dinner with you but then again people I know don't actually leave their kids in the Creche all day long either for everyday of the holiday.

Actually, 2 other questions, why bring your kids at all if you're not going to spend anytime looking after them yourself? Why not leave them with their grand parents or someone at home?

and secondly, if they were too nervous to pay a babysitter they didn't know to look after them in the evening, how come it was ok to do that during the day?

[user104658]

and secondly, if they were too nervous to pay a babysitter they didn't know to look after them in the evening, how come it was ok to do that during the day?

Not only that, but "we're too nervous to have them looked after by someone we don't know, so we're just going to leave them there alone" makes absolutely zero sense.

[Niamh.]

Not only that, but "we're too nervous to have them looked after by someone we don't know, so we're just going to leave them there alone" makes absolutely zero sense.

yep and again LT keeps referring to the (alleged) child snatcher having to be involved for there to have been a problem with leaving the kids alone but that is actually incorrect, the (alleged) child snatcher incident was actually the second incident that we know of, the first being Maddie and her 2 year old brother waking up scared and alone and crying (presumably crying themselves to sleep since they weren't still crying when the parents got back) the night before, the fact that that wasn't a big enough and serious enough incident to not leave them alone like that again beggers belief tbqh

[chuff me dizzy]

http://laidbareblog.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/more-mccann-lies-crock-of-locked-v.html

[Niamh.]

http://laidbareblog.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/more-mccann-lies-crock-of-locked-v.html

Yeah, I don't believe it was unlocked, leaving the door unlocked makes no sense at all. But if it wasn't unlocked and the McCanns are purposely lying about that, eventhough it makes them sound even more negligent then it does beg the question what the hell are they covering up.......

[chuff me dizzy]

Yeah, I don't believe it was unlocked, leaving the door unlocked makes no sense at all. But if it wasn't unlocked and the McCanns are purposely lying about that, eventhough it makes them sound even more negligent then it does beg the question what the hell are they covering up.......

It wasn't unlocked,but neglect is their alibi so they have to push it,sadly Maddie had met her demise before that night

[Marsh.]

The gist of the bombshell information received here is this: Gerry McCann is privy to information implicating the Royal Family in the murder of Princess Diana. This was his leverage.

Some of these theories are ridiculous. :laugh:

You could make a great movie out of half of them.

[Crimson Dynamo]

essentially its all a cover up for the fake moon landings

[Niamh.]

Yeah some theories are pretty bizarre :laugh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

with most things like this its the simple obvious that is most likely true

she was targeted, abducted, abused and disposed of and as of yet has not been found

[Niamh.]

with most things like this its the simple obvious that is most likely true

she was targeted, abducted, abused and disposed of and as of yet has not been found

I agree........... the simplest thing is that the parents were responsible though imo

[Marsh.]

I just read about the semen sample that was then changed to being a saliva sample and was destroyed before it could be tested again. :think:

[Niamh.]

Also, LT I don't know how you can be so adamant that Madeline was taken by a paedophile with no proof but then dismiss other theories (ie parental involvement) with the same amount or lack of proof. The case is unsolved, it hasn't been proven that she was abducted as much as it hasn't been proven that she wondered off and died somewhere else or that her parents moved her after discovering she'd died accidentally in the apartment etc etc

[Crimson Dynamo]

I agree........... the simplest thing is that the parents were responsible though imo

what for abduction?

[Niamh.]

what for abduction?


No that she died accidentally while they were out and they got rid of her body

[Crimson Dynamo]

No that she died accidentally while they were out and they got rid of her body

:joker:

I hope you are joking

[Z]

It would be quite a good film if they had the build up to her going missing and then filmed all these ludicrous-with-a-slight-slight-degree-of-plausibility scenarios like blackmailing the Royal Family, getting rid of the body, a gang of paedophiles targeting the McCanns whatever... and then ending it with just the big question mark that nobody actually knows anything. Pity the McCanns would sue the **** out of anyone who was involved in making or seeing such a film :laugh:.

[Kizzy]

:joker:

I hope you are joking

It's the only scenario there was a shred of evidence for.

[Crimson Dynamo]

It's the only scenario there was a shred of evidence for.

ok Starsky

I will alert Scotland Yard

[lime]

with most things like this its the simple obvious that is most likely true

she was targeted, abducted, abused and disposed of and as of yet has not been found

If you are right and she was targeted ..then that would be because those who took her knew she had no one taking care of her

[Kizzy]

ok Starsky

I will alert Scotland Yard

You started this serious debate, why make snide comments when someone offers a view counter to yours?

[Josy]

:joker:

I hope you are joking
There was blood that belonged to the girl found in the tile behind the sofa, the clues are there but you just don't want to admit that there are more logical explanations for her disappearance than her vanishing into thin air, instead opting to ridicule anyone with opinions that don't match your own, that's not how a debate works.

[Crimson Dynamo]

There was blood that belonged to the girl found in the tile behind the sofa, the clues are there but you just don't want to admit that there are more logical explanations for her disappearance than her vanishing into thin air, instead opting to ridicule anyone with opinions that don't match your own, that's not how a debate works.

No I think I will rely on the trained Scotland yard detectives who sifted through the real evidence professionally rather than some keyboard columbos with some tabloid and facebook evidence.

ta

[Marsh.]

Yeah, because destroying evidence is very professional. :think:

[Josy]

No I think I will rely on the trained Scotland yard detectives who sifted through the real evidence professionally rather than some keyboard columbos with some tabloid and facebook evidence.

ta
Tabloid or fb? Most of the facts people post are available to read in the police files actually you know those trained police that you mention..

[Crimson Dynamo]

Tabloid or fb? Most of the facts people post are available to read in the police files actually you know those trained police that you mention..

Do i need to personally know our top trained detectives at Scotland yard to know they are far better at evidence analysis than forum members ?


seriously?

[Josy]

Do i need to personally know our top trained detectives at Scotland yard to know they are far better at evidence analysis than forum members ?


seriously?
Not sure why that would come in to it?

You asked in your OP what people thought and some posted counter opinions to you based on the evidence that is available for anyone to read so what makes your opinion any more valid than others? And why would you even ask what these untrained, non police forum members thought if you've already decided that only the police and your opinion is the correct one?

[Marsh.]

Do i need to personally know our top trained detectives at Scotland yard to know they are far better at evidence analysis than forum members ?


seriously?

So why've you bothered to create a thread welcoming everyone's opinions if you're not interested in reading anything other than what the police themselves think?

[Jack_]

So why've you bothered to create a thread welcoming everyone's opinions if you're not interested in reading anything other than what the police themselves think?

I'm amazed this is even a question, and that this thread has reached 13 bloody pages...I'm being serious here why do people fall for it? :laugh:

[Marsh.]

I'm amazed this is even a question, and that this thread has reached 13 bloody pages...I'm being serious here why do people fall for it? :laugh:

I can't help who I fall in love with. :bawling:

[Crimson Dynamo]

So why've you bothered to create a thread welcoming everyone's opinions if you're not interested in reading anything other than what the police themselves think?

I did not create a thread to elicit half baked conspiracy theories, it was to see if people think the girl will ever be found

[Crimson Dynamo]

I'm amazed this is even a question, and that this thread has reached 13 bloody pages...I'm being serious here why do people fall for it? :laugh:


For some reason this case makes people go bonkers

idgi :shrug:

[Jack_]

For some reason this case makes people go bonkers

idgi :shrug:

Which you knew full well :wink:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Which you knew full well :wink:

moi?

[Marsh.]

I did not create a thread to elicit half baked conspiracy theories, it was to see if people think the girl will ever be found

And they have provided that.

Just because you don't agree she won't be found because she died in an accident due to neglect doesn't change that. :think:

People can't tell you whether they think she'll be found or not without elaborating on how they've come to that conclusion.

[Crimson Dynamo]

And they have provided that.

Just because you don't agree she won't be found because she died in an accident due to neglect doesn't change that. :think:

People can't tell you whether they think she'll be found or not without elaborating on how they've come to that conclusion.


I should have created a Mccanns appreciation thread, keep the haterzs out



:think:

[Marsh.]

I should have created a Mccanns appreciation thread, keep the haterzs out



:think:

Gerry is a fine piece of ass. :smug:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Gerry is a fine piece of ass. :smug:

I knew that dark, chiselled, murderer look was right up your strada

[Marsh.]

I knew that dark, chiselled, murderer look was right up your strada

And that Scottish accent. :drool:

[Crimson Dynamo]

And that Scottish accent. :drool:

:joker:

[Cherie]

Which you knew full well :wink:

Are you saying LT is trolling under an assumed name? , unless the Leather Trumpet family claim him as their own he can now be arrested and given 80 hours community service :amazed:

[Marsh.]

Are you saying LT is trolling under an assumed name? , unless the Leather Trumpet family claim him as their own he can now be arrested and given 80 hours community service :amazed:

LT cleaning the houses of all the members affected by his heinous crime. :clap1:

[Crimson Dynamo]

I am too pretty for jail


:bawling:

[Niamh.]

:joker:



I hope you are joking


Clearly I'm not

[chuff me dizzy]

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATERINA-PAYNE-INCIDENT.htm