I can't rest without knowing where Maddie is

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/02/20/16/026ADC2A00000514-0-image-a-26_1455985141533.jpghttp://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/02/20/15/0596C22D00000514-0-image-a-19_1455983797594.jpg

I can't rest without knowing where Maddie is, says Kate McCann as she reveals she still feels 'in limbo' nine years after he daughter's disappearance


Kate McCann 'cannot rest' until she finds out what happened to Maddie
The 47-year-old said she feels 'in eternal limbo' without her daughter
Maddie went missing at family's holiday home in Portugal in 2007



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3456112/Kate-McCann-reveals-feels-limbo-Maddie-s-disappearance.html#ixzz40jkskugY
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The torment this poor woman has had to undergo, lets hope they find the girl alive and well, what do you think?

[MB.]

She seemed pretty restful not knowing where she was in that restaurant :idc:

[mooo]

She knows where she is.

[UserSince2005]

has she explained the blood in her hired car yet?

[AnnieK]

I do think maddie is dead but there is a terrible sadness in Kate's eyes that I have seen before in people who have lost children. Whether or not she knows what happened I'm not sure

[Kazanne]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/02/20/16/026ADC2A00000514-0-image-a-26_1455985141533.jpghttp://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/02/20/15/0596C22D00000514-0-image-a-19_1455983797594.jpg

I can't rest without knowing where Maddie is, says Kate McCann as she reveals she still feels 'in limbo' nine years after he daughter's disappearance


Kate McCann 'cannot rest' until she finds out what happened to Maddie
The 47-year-old said she feels 'in eternal limbo' without her daughter
Maddie went missing at family's holiday home in Portugal in 2007



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3456112/Kate-McCann-reveals-feels-limbo-Maddie-s-disappearance.html#ixzz40jkskugY
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The torment this poor woman has had to undergo, lets hope they find the girl alive and well, what do you think?

Funny that LT ,as she was saying in the tabloids last week she knew Madeleine was still in the Algarve an that's where she felt closest to her.!!

[Cherie]

Well if we are going down that route LT,if anyone deserves an award for tirelessly keeping her sons memory alive it's Denise Bulger who put her tragedy to the good of helping other children.

:clap2:

No doubt Kate McCann looks haunted, but then she did leave 3 babies in an unlocked room in a foreign country with a swimming pool in between them and the restaurant so even if she thought the children were safe from human risk there were still physical risks if Maddie came out of the room which she and her husband ignored.

[Denver]

How dare she not live in her house like a hermit for the rest of her life.

She didn't care about her when she left her home alone :idc:

[Kazanne]

:clap2:

No doubt Kate McCann looks haunted, but then she did leave 3 babies in an unlocked room in a foreign country with a swimming pool in between them and the restaurant so even if she thought the children were safe from human risk there were still physical risks if Maddie came out of the room which she and her husband ignored.

Exactly, Cherie,whatever happened to that child started with sheer neglect from her parents.

[Amy Jade]

She didn't care about her when she left her home alone :idc:

I'm not really debating that, the McCanns have admitted their fault in that. Bad parenting indeed but that doesn't mean she's not devestated her daughter was taken.

[Denver]

Exactly, Cherie,whatever happened to that child started with sheer neglect from her parents.

Its a shame that this is over looked and they are painted out as fantastic parents

[Kizzy]

Anyone see this on FB...
48 questions I would like Kate McCann to answer.

1. Why did you not physically search for Madeleine?
2. Why did you leave the twins when you realised Madeleine was missing, risking them also being taken?
3. What did you mean by 'they've taken her'. Who's 'they' Kate?
4. Why did you refuse to answer police questioning that could have helped find your daughter?
5. At the time, Gordon Brown was Chancellor of the Exchequer, not the Foreign Secretary. So why did he put so much pressure on the Portuguese police?
6. Why did you wash cuddle cat?
7. Where is Madeleine's pink blanket now, we know it was on her bed 4th May?
8. Why did you lie about the shutters being smashed/jemmied/broken?
9. Why did you change your original statement from the door being locked to the door being unlocked?
10. Why did you presume Madeleine had been abducted when there was no evidence to suggest she had been?
11. What happened to the blue sports bag that was in your wardrobe?
12. Why didn't the twins wake up the night Madeleine disappeared when there were people constantly walking in and out of their room?
13. Why did you dismiss the dogs evidence knowing that they had been right in at least 200 cases?
14. Why was Madeleine's DNA found in the boot of the hire car that had been hired 24 days after her disappearance?
15. How could you and Gerry find it in you to laugh/jog/play tennis days after your daughters disappearance?
16. Why did you get the media involved so early on ignoring the advise from the Portuguese police?
17. Why did it take 45 minutes for the police to be called?
18. Why are there so many inconsistency in all of your statements?
19. Why were the checks more consistent on the night Madeleine was reported missing?
20. Why was Madeleine crying for an hour and 15 minutes even though phone records prove Kate was in the apartment 3 minutes before?
21. Why did you hire Carter Ruck lawyers, especially the one that specialised in extraditions?
22. Why has only 10% of the fund been spent on the search?
23. Why did you suppress the E-Fits that are being used in the current investigation, is it because the Smiths identified your husband as the man they saw carrying Madeleine towards the beach the night of Madeleine's disappearance?
24. Why is your online shop still up and running even though there is 2 ongoing investigations?
25. Why did the government assign their spin doctor to control what is said about you in the media less than 24 hours after Madeleine's disappearance?
26. Why did you leave Portugal so quickly after being made arguidos?
27. Why did you lie about cuddle cat being high up on a shelf?
28. What on earth did you mean by this comment - "The police don't want a murder in Portugal and all the publicity about them not having paedophile laws here, so they're blaming us,"?
29. Why did you celebrate Madeleine's 4th birthday, shouldn't you have been searching?
30. Why is the fund not registered with the Charities Commission?
31. Why do you think it's acceptable to talk about your child's 'perfect genitals being torn apart' in your book?
32. Why is there no mention of Katerina Gaspers statement in your book, accusing David Payne of making inappropriate comments about your child to your husband?
33. Why did you draw so much attention to Madeleine's eye after the PJ warned you it could push the 'abductors' to harm her?
34. Why did you discount Mrs Fenns account of the crying?
35. What files does Theresa May have that she refuses to share with Portugal?
36. Why did you refuse to do reconstruction?
37. Why have you said you wish Gonçalo to be miserable and feel fear, he did everything possible to search for your child until he uncovered the truth of what you did to her?
38. Why were you happy with courting the media as long as they only reported an abduction?
39. Why are you suing people that are asking questions or purporting a theory?
40. Why did you spend £100K getting the police files translated but haven't released them?
41. Will you refund anyone who gave donations who have now read the evidence, should they want one?
42. How could the curtains 'Whooosh!' When they were trapped between the bed and the chair?
43. Why did it take you 144 days to get the twins tested to see if they had been sedated the night Madeleine disappeared?
44. What was in Gerry CATS file before it was sanitised?
45. How did the intruder manage to leave no forensic evidence?
46. Why was there no DNA found belonging to Madeleine in the apartment, forcing Gerry to return home to collect her pillowcase?
47. WHERE THE HELL ARE YOU WHILST THE POLICE ARE DIGGING UP LUZ KATE?
48. Why will you go to Portugal to attend the libel trial in the hope of receiving a million pound pay out but not while the police are trying to dig up your child's body?

[Denver]

I'm not really debating that, the McCanns have admitted their fault in that. Bad parenting indeed but that doesn't mean she's not devestated her daughter was taken.

I see it as they as parents are to blame more then anyone as if they was doing their job as parents Madeline would still be with them.

[Kazanne]

Anyone see this on FB...
48 questions I would like Kate McCann to answer.

1. Why did you not physically search for Madeleine?
2. Why did you leave the twins when you realised Madeleine was missing, risking them also being taken?
3. What did you mean by 'they've taken her'. Who's 'they' Kate?
4. Why did you refuse to answer police questioning that could have helped find your daughter?
5. At the time, Gordon Brown was Chancellor of the Exchequer, not the Foreign Secretary. So why did he put so much pressure on the Portuguese police?
6. Why did you wash cuddle cat?
7. Where is Madeleine's pink blanket now, we know it was on her bed 4th May?
8. Why did you lie about the shutters being smashed/jemmied/broken?
9. Why did you change your original statement from the door being locked to the door being unlocked?
10. Why did you presume Madeleine had been abducted when there was no evidence to suggest she had been?
11. What happened to the blue sports bag that was in your wardrobe?
12. Why didn't the twins wake up the night Madeleine disappeared when there were people constantly walking in and out of their room?
13. Why did you dismiss the dogs evidence knowing that they had been right in at least 200 cases?
14. Why was Madeleine's DNA found in the boot of the hire car that had been hired 24 days after her disappearance?
15. How could you and Gerry find it in you to laugh/jog/play tennis days after your daughters disappearance?
16. Why did you get the media involved so early on ignoring the advise from the Portuguese police?
17. Why did it take 45 minutes for the police to be called?
18. Why are there so many inconsistency in all of your statements?
19. Why were the checks more consistent on the night Madeleine was reported missing?
20. Why was Madeleine crying for an hour and 15 minutes even though phone records prove Kate was in the apartment 3 minutes before?
21. Why did you hire Carter Ruck lawyers, especially the one that specialised in extraditions?
22. Why has only 10% of the fund been spent on the search?
23. Why did you suppress the E-Fits that are being used in the current investigation, is it because the Smiths identified your husband as the man they saw carrying Madeleine towards the beach the night of Madeleine's disappearance?
24. Why is your online shop still up and running even though there is 2 ongoing investigations?
25. Why did the government assign their spin doctor to control what is said about you in the media less than 24 hours after Madeleine's disappearance?
26. Why did you leave Portugal so quickly after being made arguidos?
27. Why did you lie about cuddle cat being high up on a shelf?
28. What on earth did you mean by this comment - "The police don't want a murder in Portugal and all the publicity about them not having paedophile laws here, so they're blaming us,"?
29. Why did you celebrate Madeleine's 4th birthday, shouldn't you have been searching?
30. Why is the fund not registered with the Charities Commission?
31. Why do you think it's acceptable to talk about your child's 'perfect genitals being torn apart' in your book?
32. Why is there no mention of Katerina Gaspers statement in your book, accusing David Payne of making inappropriate comments about your child to your husband?
33. Why did you draw so much attention to Madeleine's eye after the PJ warned you it could push the 'abductors' to harm her?
34. Why did you discount Mrs Fenns account of the crying?
35. What files does Theresa May have that she refuses to share with Portugal?
36. Why did you refuse to do reconstruction?
37. Why have you said you wish Gonçalo to be miserable and feel fear, he did everything possible to search for your child until he uncovered the truth of what you did to her?
38. Why were you happy with courting the media as long as they only reported an abduction?
39. Why are you suing people that are asking questions or purporting a theory?
40. Why did you spend £100K getting the police files translated but haven't released them?
41. Will you refund anyone who gave donations who have now read the evidence, should they want one?
42. How could the curtains 'Whooosh!' When they were trapped between the bed and the chair?
43. Why did it take you 144 days to get the twins tested to see if they had been sedated the night Madeleine disappeared?
44. What was in Gerry CATS file before it was sanitised?
45. How did the intruder manage to leave no forensic evidence?
46. Why was there no DNA found belonging to Madeleine in the apartment, forcing Gerry to return home to collect her pillowcase?
47. WHERE THE HELL ARE YOU WHILST THE POLICE ARE DIGGING UP LUZ KATE?
48. Why will you go to Portugal to attend the libel trial in the hope of receiving a million pound pay out but not while the police are trying to dig up your child's body?


Are these the 48 she refused to answer kizzy ?

[rubymoo]

I don't know what to think about this case, it's such a sad case, it's going to be the same as many unsolved cases as in we'll possibly never know what happened, i'd like to think she's alive somewhere, that someone has loved her and she's safe.....someone knows....

[MB.]

I doubt the police asked her "WHERE THE HELL ARE YOU WHILST THE POLICE ARE DIGGING UP LUZ KATE?"

[Kizzy]

Are these the 48 she refused to answer kizzy ?

No don't think so just 48 random questions posed since Maddies diappearance :(

[Kazanne]

No don't think so just 48 random questions posed since Maddies diappearance :(

Aren't there some questions she would not answer ?

[Denver]

I have a theory on what happened

[Amy Jade]

I have a theory on what happened

Everyone does though, I'm just sad a little girl could be dead.

[MB.]

Do you have a link to those? I'd be interested to see them

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/2500864/Madeleine-McCann-Kate-McCann-refused-to-answer-48-questions-from-Portuguese-police.html

[UserSince2005]

SHE has QUEStions to ANSWER!!!

[Denver]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/2500864/Madeleine-McCann-Kate-McCann-refused-to-answer-48-questions-from-Portuguese-police.html

Thanks for that and it looks really dodgy I'm stumped to why the authorities havent suspected them or even arrested them.

[Kazanne]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/2500864/Madeleine-McCann-Kate-McCann-refused-to-answer-48-questions-from-Portuguese-police.html

That doesn't look good does it? why would she not answer them and help in anyway she could.

[Amy Jade]

I don't know what to think about this case, it's such a sad case, it's going to be the same as many unsolved cases as in we'll possibly never know what happened, i'd like to think she's alive somewhere, that someone has loved her and she's safe.....someone knows....

This is what I would like to believe...that she's unaware of being abducted and living happily somewhere.

Perhaps that makes me a bit naive and wishful but I'd rather be that than thinking the worst idk

[Kazanne]

Thanks for that and it looks really dodgy I'm stumped to why the authorities havent suspected them or even arrested them.

Same to be honest,but some say they have friends in high places.

[MB.]

Thanks for that and it looks really dodgy I'm stumped to why the authorities havent suspected them or even arrested them.

The whole case has been a shambles from the beginning so I wouldn't be surprised

[rubymoo]

This is what I would like to believe...that she's unaware of being abducted and living happily somewhere.

Perhaps that makes me a bit naive and wishful but I'd rather be that than thinking the worst idk

I don't think it makes you or me naive or wishful, it makes us hopeful, hopeful that a little girl is alive :wavey:

[Kazanne]

I think everyone hopes she's alive, thing is I don't believe she was abducted so it makes that scenario harder for me to believe .

[Denver]

I think everyone hopes she's alive, thing is I don't believe she was abducted so it makes that scenario harder for me to believe .

I have a feeling she was trafficked

[smudgie]

I have no idea what happened that evening other than they made a mistake in leaving the children alone. They are not unique in doing that, but very unfortunate that something bad has happened to their little girl.
I do think there is real sadness behind those eyes, she looks haunted.
Grief or guilt, I don't pretend to know.

[AnnieK]

My main theory and opinion is that they medicated the children and Maddie woke and in a disorientated state, somehow fell in between the couch and the window, perhaps looking for her parents and hit her head. The McCanns then panicked because of the sedation and the fact they had been left alone and so decided to cover it up. Unfortunately, I fear no one will know the truth and it saddens me that Maddie has not been laid to rest properly.

[Kazanne]

My main theory and opinion is that they medicated the children and Maddie woke and in a disorientated state, somehow fell in between the couch and the window, perhaps looking for her parents and hit her head. The McCanns then panicked because of the sedation and the fact they had been left alone and so decided to cover it up. Unfortunately, I fear no one will know the truth and it saddens me that Maddie has not been laid to rest properly.

I'm thinking along those lines too Annie,there are so many unanswered questions in this case,whatever happed to her though arose from their carelessness.

[Kizzy]

Aren't there some questions she would not answer ?

Yes I think you're right she was asked a number of questions and answered 'No comment' to a great many iirc.

[GiRTh]

I never knew Kate refused to answer questions. Seems a bit strange she was concerned with her own rights and possibly being accused of something instead of concentrating solely on finding Maddy.

[rubymoo]

My main theory and opinion is that they medicated the children and Maddie woke and in a disorientated state, somehow fell in between the couch and the window, perhaps looking for her parents and hit her head. The McCanns then panicked because of the sedation and the fact they had been left alone and so decided to cover it up. Unfortunately, I fear no one will know the truth and it saddens me that Maddie has not been laid to rest properly.

Whilst i'd like to think she's alive, i think this^^^^ is possibly along the lines of what happened, and i agree Annie if this is what has happened it's sad she's not laid to rest :( but there's a part of me that holds hope that she's alive, i do think Kate and Gerry know the truth, lets hope some day the truth outs and we all know what happened.

[hijaxers]

She seemed pretty restful not knowing where she was in that restaurant :idc:

Yes well don't you think that haunts her, i doubt anyone is a 'perfect' parent

[MB.]

Don't worry, I wouldn't have applied the word 'perfect' to Kate McCann in the first place

[bots]

I don't think the McCanns have ever been open and truthful about the night in question, which they would have been if their only concern was getting their daughter back. Was that due to their implied guilt because of their negligence or because of something more sinister. Unfortunately, i tend more to the later explanation. I can't help but feel that people in power have protected them for some reason, and that concerns me a great deal.

[Jamie89]

The thing I don't understand about the conspiracy theories, is that if the McCann's did have something to do with her disappearance/death, then why would they maintain such a public presence? Surely attention would be the last thing they would want?

Also, regarding the 48 questions, is it not the case that her lawyers could have advised her not to answer any of them? I don't necessarily know why that would be the case but you hear about that happening sometimes, that suspects are told to say no comment for a particular interview for legal reasons. I'm not an expert though so feel free to correct me if I'm talking rubbish :laugh: It's just what I've heard.

There are probably a lot of details to do with the case that we don't know and I'm on the side of believing the McCann's story I think. I know there a lot of things that look dodgy, but sometimes situations just look dodgy. It's not actual evidence. And I think for a crime as serious as child abduction/murder there has to be real evidence for someone to be presumed guilty. Especially when none of us know all the facts.

[Samm]

Yes well don't you think that haunts her, i doubt anyone is a 'perfect' parent

This, yes leaving her in the room was a bad idea but they always checked up on the children and it was a family resort in a nice area so they were pretty confident.

I think most people attack the McCanns is because they want a reason for who done it.

[Denver]

This, yes leaving her in the room was a bad idea but they always checked up on the children and it was a family resort in a nice area so they were pretty confident.

I think most people attack the McCanns is because they want a reason for who done it.

Most people attack them because how dodgy it has made them look and they know more then they are willing to spill

[Denver]

The thing I don't understand about the conspiracy theories, is that if the McCann's did have something to do with her disappearance/death, then why would they maintain such a public presence? Surely attention would be the last thing they would want?

Also, regarding the 48 questions, is it not the case that her lawyers could have advised her not to answer any of them? I don't necessarily know why that would be the case but you hear about that happening sometimes, that suspects are told to say no comment for a particular interview for legal reasons. I'm not an expert though so feel free to correct me if I'm talking rubbish :laugh: It's just what I've heard.

There are probably a lot of details to do with the case that we don't know and I'm on the side of believing the McCann's story I think. I know there a lot of things that look dodgy, but sometimes situations just look dodgy. It's not actual evidence. And I think for a crime as serious as child abduction/murder there has to be real evidence for someone to be presumed guilty. Especially when none of us know all the facts.

But if they didn't generate attention then they would be prime suspects :think:

[Kazanne]

dont try and use logic a reason and spoil people vilifying kate

It's HIM I find dodgy tbh,she is just a puppet,I don't know what happened to the girl ( I don't think she was abducted though),but the amount of inconsistances of this case is astounding.

[Beso]

he looks like Ian huntly.

[mooo]

Anyone watched the truth of the lie? Its all quite scary stuff

[Crimson Dynamo]

This, yes leaving her in the room was a bad idea but they always checked up on the children and it was a family resort in a nice area so they were pretty confident.

I think most people attack the McCanns is because they want a reason for who done it.

:clap1:

good post

[bots]

I think most people look at all the facts of the case and see that the McCanns have had years to clarify things, and haven't. There must be a reason for that.

Anyone who has children knows that there are no limits to what you would do to get your child home safe in those circumstances. One could perhaps understand a momentary lapse, none of us are perfect, but what we have seen is habitual obfuscation by the parents of the events that occurred. Those are not the actions of parents who think the child is alive, or that want her back

[Crimson Dynamo]

I think most people look at all the facts of the case and see that the McCanns have had years to clarify things, and haven't. There must be a reason for that.

Anyone who has children knows that there are no limits to what you would do to get your child home safe in those circumstances. One could perhaps understand a momentary lapse, none of us are perfect, but what we have seen is habitual obfuscation by the parents of the events that occurred. Those are not the actions of parents who think the child is alive, or that want her back

habitual obfuscation?

evidence please

[Nicky91]

This, yes leaving her in the room was a bad idea but they always checked up on the children and it was a family resort in a nice area so they were pretty confident.

I think most people attack the McCanns is because they want a reason for who done it.


good post


:clap1:

[Vanessa]

This is what I think. My feeling is that she died and it was an accident, who the parents covered up. There's so much in this case that doesn't make sense at all. If it was an abduction there would be evidence, but in this case nothing. It's just so odd.

[Crimson Dynamo]

This is what I think. My feeling is that she died and it was an accident, who the parents covered up. There's so much in this case that doesn't make sense at all. If it was an abduction there would be evidence, but in this case nothing. It's just so odd.

What evidence?

[Vanessa]

What evidence?

Something to suggest she was taken. Fingerprints maybe? I know the evidence has been tampered with since the beginning, so we may never know for sure what happened that night. They made such a mess of the investigation.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Something to suggest she was taken. Fingerprints maybe? I know the evidence has been tampered with since the beginning, so we may never know for sure what happened that night. They made such a mess of the investigation.

thats Portuguese police for you

nothing to do with the McCanns

[Beso]

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203568381711517&id=1274348627&set=a.4611470206150.187744.1274348627&source=48

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203568381711517&id=1274348627&set=a.4611470206150.187744.1274348627&source=48

that is some pathetic facebook, 9/11 teenager conspiracy bollocks

:facepalm:

[Alf]

We should have a conspiracy theory thread.

[Beso]

that is some pathetic facebook, 9/11 teenager conspiracy bollocks

:facepalm:

Just thought i would post it seeing as people are going on about unanswered questions.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Just thought i would post it seeing as people are going on about unanswered questions.

What is the source of these questions?

[Beso]

What is the source of these questions?

:shrug:
Shes a very pretty lady though.

[Crimson Dynamo]

:shrug:
Shes a very pretty lady though.

they are pointless unless she has access to all the police files and to the maccanns themselves

its just an example of a keyboard warrior playing detective

[Cherie]

Whatever happened that night they gave themselves a life time of grief in return for a night out with friends, not the best of trades.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Whatever happened that night they gave themselves a life time of grief in return for a night out with friends, not the best of trades.

every parent has done something that could have resulted in an abduction, leaving kids in a car while you nip in to the shop, having a barbeque at the bottom of your garden whilst the kids are asleep in an unlocked house, let your kids go a bike ride in the summer, or walk the dog etc etc etc


If a nasty guy targets your child and is determined to get them....

[Cherie]

every parent has done something that could have resulted in an abduction, leaving kids in a car while you nip in to the shop, having a barbeque at the bottom of your garden whilst the kids are asleep in an unlocked house, let your kids go a bike ride in the summer, or walk the dog etc etc etc


If a nasty guy targets your child and is determined to get them....

Having a party in the garden is completely different, for a start its unlikely the front door would be unlocked, the kids would be in familiar surroundings and would know where their parents were and they wouldn't have to traverse a swimming pool to get to them, nipping into the shop ..again would you leave the car unlocked :suspect: of course you let kids out on bikes when they are old enough...not at 2 and 4 though :unsure:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Having a party in the garden is completely different, for a start its unlikely the front door would be unlocked, the kids would be in familiar surroundings and would know where their parents were and they wouldn't have to traverse a swimming pool to get to them, nipping into the shop ..again would you leave the car unlocked :suspect: of course you let kids out on bikes when they are old enough...not at 2 and 4 though :unsure:

leaving them as they did is not dangerous at all


you need to add in a predator who is willing to go to jail for life to abduct a child

now you are looking at odds of millions to one




:fist: I keep thinking you are Marsh

[bots]

leaving them as they did is not dangerous at all



With respect LT, i'm never sure when you are on the wind up or not. From the profile of them that came out, they would never earn most the caring parent award. There is a difference between a momentary lapse and repeated pre-meditated actions that are lacking in due care and attention.

I think there has been much speculation on a potential abductor because that is the scenario that most people could accept best, but there is no evidence whatsoever to support it.

The bottom line is that the parents are guilty, how guilty we will never probably know, but they are guilty none the less, so will get no sympathy from me.

[Kazanne]

What evidence?

C'mon LT kate said the window was jemmied,then changed her mind and said it wasn't.also why would he buy a new fridge for a holiday apartment as they said theirs had broken and he got rid,also the blue tennis hold all bag.the washing of Madeleins toy just does not make sense,so many un answered questions,no wonder people are suspicious.

[Ammi]

...well, whatever their poor judgements and whatever faults in parenting that evening, they've certainly paid the ultimate price that any parent could, in the loss of their daughter...an unimaginable pain, which Kate's eyes always seem to reflect, to me.... but for them..a focus of trying to find her/what happened to her...I don't think any parent 'would rest'....not knowing must be the worst 'prison' that any parent could be in...

[joeysteele]

Well if we are going down that route LT,if anyone deserves an award for tirelessly keeping her sons memory alive it's Denise Bulger who put her tragedy to the good of helping other children.

Yes and poor Denise got some truly awful comments too that she had to put up with.
Then had to watch those who did the horrific murder and the horror before it too,get protected with new identities and let out.

The case as to the content of the title of this thread stinks rotten and has done since the start really.

[Crimson Dynamo]

...well, whatever their poor judgements and whatever faults in parenting that evening, they've certainly paid the ultimate price that any parent could, in the loss of their daughter...an unimaginable pain, which Kate's eyes always seem to reflect, to me.... but for them..a focus of trying to find her/what happened to her...I don't think any parent 'would rest'....not knowing must be the worst 'prison' that any parent could be in...

bang on right Ammi

[Cherie]

C'mon LT kate said the window was jemmied,then changed her mind and said it wasn't.also why would he buy a new fridge for a holiday apartment as they said theirs had broken and he got rid,also the blue tennis hold all bag.the washing of Madeleins toy just does not make sense,so many un answered questions,no wonder people are suspicious.


They bought a fridge for a holiday apartment :conf2:

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/428031/kate-mccann-continues-look-lost-daughter-madeleine-pic-reuters.jpg

[Denver]

http://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/428031/kate-mccann-continues-look-lost-daughter-madeleine-pic-reuters.jpg

Looks so fake and staged

[Kazanne]

Yes and poor Denise got some truly awful comments too that she had to put up with.
Then had to watch those who did the horrific murder and the horror before it too,get protected with new identities and let out.

The case as to the content of the title of this thread stinks rotten and has done since the start really.

Too true Joey,I just cannot get behind these two.:wavey:

[Niamh.]

thats Portuguese police for you

nothing to do with the McCanns

The one time I have ever heard you bad mouth a Police force..........

[GiRTh]

What is the source of these questions?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/2500864/Madeleine-McCann-Kate-McCann-refused-to-answer-48-questions-from-Portuguese-police.html

Its 48 questions Kate McCann refused to answer when questioned by police soon after Maddy disappeared.

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/2500864/Madeleine-McCann-Kate-McCann-refused-to-answer-48-questions-from-Portuguese-police.html

Its 48 questions Kate McCann refused to answer when questioned by police soon after Maddy disappeared.

Yes but she didn't refuse

She wasadvised by her legal brief not to answer in order not to incriminate herself as she was being accused

Massive difference

[Livia]

Yes but she didn't refuse

She wasadvised by her legal brief not to answer in order not to incriminate herself as she was being accused

Massive difference

Exactly.

[user104658]

My thoughts on this are the same as ever;

- I'm 50/50 over whether or not the McCanns played an active role in their daughter's disappearance.

- However I believe they are 100% guilty of causing her death by neglect. Either way, whether she was kidnapped OR died in an accident that they covered up, is irrelevant.

- I do have some sympathy for their situation... but I'm afraid it's minimal, because however you look at it, that little girl is the victim in this story, and what happened to her was entirely avoidable. It's horrendous and completely over-rides their suffering.

- Finally, I don't really understand their response or their situation at all so I struggle to empathise. If it was my daughter, I'd either be turning over every rock in Portugal by hand, or I'd be dead. Quite probably the latter... and that's not an exaggeration.

[bots]

My thoughts on this are the same as ever;

- I'm 50/50 over whether or not the McCanns played an active role in their daughter's disappearance.

- However I believe they are 100% guilty of causing her death by neglect. Either way, whether she was kidnapped OR died in an accident that they covered up, is irrelevant.

- I do have some sympathy for their situation... but I'm afraid it's minimal, because however you look at it, that little girl is the victim in this story, and what happened to her was entirely avoidable. It's horrendous and completely over-rides their suffering.

- Finally, I don't really understand their response or their situation at all so I struggle to empathise. If it was my daughter, I'd either be turning over every rock in Portugal by hand, or I'd be dead. Quite probably the latter... and that's not an exaggeration.

100% agreement with this

[Kizzy]

Yes but she didn't refuse

She wasadvised by her legal brief not to answer in order not to incriminate herself as she was being accused

Massive difference

Strange that of the 48 she chose to answer this one...

A Question She Did Answer
- Are you aware that in not answering the questions you are jeopardizing the investigation, which seeks to discover what happened to your daughter?

- “Yes, if that’s what the investigation thinks.”

[bots]

Yes but she didn't refuse

She wasadvised by her legal brief not to answer in order not to incriminate herself as she was being accused

Massive difference

Do you honestly think a mothers first concern is for her own legal rights when her daughter has been abducted, and every moment lost, the abductor is further away? Sorry, it doesn't add up

[GiRTh]

Yes but she didn't refuse

She wasadvised by her legal brief not to answer in order not to incriminate herself as she was being accused

Massive differenceYes but she did refuse, she took cousel then refused to answer them; its true she was asked those questions after it was made clear she was a suspect. Obviously her legal counsel has her best interests at heart, not Maddys, but looking at some of those questions they are rather innocuous - Whats your medical specialty? Have you ever worked in a Hospital? :shrug:

[GiRTh]

Do you honestly think a mothers first concern is for her own legal rights when her daughter has been abducted, and every moment lost, the abductor is further away? Sorry, it doesn't add upThis :clap1:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Do you honestly think a mothers first concern is for her own legal rights when her daughter has been abducted, and every moment lost, the abductor is further away? Sorry, it doesn't add up

No

This was after when they became suspects and of course you listen to your brief

Sadly most people have no idea what went on, have any idea of the legalities, timescale or circumstances

But why let that spoill things

[Babayaro.]

My thoughts on this are the same as ever;

- I'm 50/50 over whether or not the McCanns played an active role in their daughter's disappearance.

- However I believe they are 100% guilty of causing her death by neglect. Either way, whether she was kidnapped OR died in an accident that they covered up, is irrelevant.

- I do have some sympathy for their situation... but I'm afraid it's minimal, because however you look at it, that little girl is the victim in this story, and what happened to her was entirely avoidable. It's horrendous and completely over-rides their suffering.

- Finally, I don't really understand their response or their situation at all so I struggle to empathise. If it was my daughter, I'd either be turning over every rock in Portugal by hand, or I'd be dead. Quite probably the latter... and that's not an exaggeration.
:clap1: Finally some sense

[bots]

No

This was after when they became suspects and of course you listen to your brief

Sadly most people have no idea what went on, have any idea of the legalities, timescale or circumstances

But why let that spoill things

She was less than helpful to the authorities right from the moment they were first involved

[GiRTh]

No

This was after when they became suspects and of course you listen to your brief

Sadly most people have no idea what went on, have any idea of the legalities, timescale or circumstances

But why let that spoill thingsExactly, but surely any detail, even the most insignificant thing, could help the authorities? :shrug:

[Denver]

Whether your a suspect or not firstly you want to make sure your daughter is alive and safe and secondly clear your name so refusing to answer questions on the advise of your breif makes no sense whatsoever

[joeysteele]

Do you honestly think a mothers first concern is for her own legal rights when her daughter has been abducted, and every moment lost, the abductor is further away? Sorry, it doesn't add up

Really good point.

[joeysteele]

My thoughts on this are the same as ever;

- I'm 50/50 over whether or not the McCanns played an active role in their daughter's disappearance.

- However I believe they are 100% guilty of causing her death by neglect. Either way, whether she was kidnapped OR died in an accident that they covered up, is irrelevant.

- I do have some sympathy for their situation... but I'm afraid it's minimal, because however you look at it, that little girl is the victim in this story, and what happened to her was entirely avoidable. It's horrendous and completely over-rides their suffering.

- Finally, I don't really understand their response or their situation at all so I struggle to empathise. If it was my daughter, I'd either be turning over every rock in Portugal by hand, or I'd be dead. Quite probably the latter... and that's not an exaggeration.

Great post.

[user104658]

SO when you were accused of a serious crime did you ignore your legal team

Tell us what happened next?



*grabs chair*

If my daughter was missing and presumed to be either already dead or at the very least in extreme danger, I literally wouldn't care about anything. At all. Least of all having a legal team, or taking their advice.

[Mokka]

Why would you want to incriminate yourself by refusing to answer important questions :shrug:

actually... refusing to answer questions under a lawyers advice is the exact opposite of incriminating yourself

[Crimson Dynamo]

If my daughter was missing and presumed to be either already dead or at the very least in extreme danger, I literally wouldn't care about anything. At all. Least of all having a legal team, or taking their advice.

anecdotal wishful thinking is just that

you have no idea what you would have done, you may think you would do x and y but do not crucify a family based on "well i know what i would have done"


it did not happen to you thankfully and you have no bloody idea

[Denver]

actually... refusing to answer questions under a lawyers advice is the exact opposite of incriminating yourself

But it makes you look more suspicious which will keep you as a suspect right? :shrug:

[GiRTh]

She was doing what every person does in that situation, listens to her expert legal team


sorry is this some new concept for people on tibb?



Maybe Girth you can furnish the thread with examples of where joe public ignore their legal team to their great benefit in situations like this?

Also can you link to the interview with the police and the interview with kate where she explains her actionsGerry was also in the interview. Strange for suspects to be interviewed together.

Dont know what you're on about in the 2nd half. Why do I need to give other examples? We're talking about the McCanns in a thread you started :shrug:

[Crimson Dynamo]

But it makes you look more suspicious which will keep you as a suspect right? :shrug:

no its standard procedure, the Portuguese police are trying with their questions to incriminate - these are not innocent questions they are leading questions designed to get a conviction

this is why you call a lawyer

[GiRTh]

no its standard procedure, the Portuguese police are trying with their questions to incriminate - these are not innocent questions they are leading questions designed to get a conviction

this is why you call a lawyerLeading questions like - Whats your medical specialty?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Leading questions like - Whats your medical specialty?

that is a equation but it was not the only one, it leads into other questions that we are not privvy to



do you seriously think that this was all that they were asked, its ridiculous to try and make a judgement based on newspaper articles?

its stupidity

[stevenmanu]

Why on earth would you leave a kid in a hotel room on vlgdf own l jesus

[Crimson Dynamo]

Why on earth would you leave a kid in a hotel room on vlgdf own l jesus

i am going to hazard a guess they did not think that a paedophile murder was in the vicinity


in the same way that families let their children walk to school like Milly Dowler's family did, sadly

[Mokka]

But it makes you look more suspicious which will keep you as a suspect right? :shrug:

no... just to you Adam... in the actual world of law.. that isn't how it works.

Why do you think people need lawyers advising them when questioned by the police... because police can and will cajole people into saying things and twist what is said. They weren't even in their own countries legal system... which is all the more reason to lawyer up.

[GiRTh]

that is a equation but it was not the only one, it leads into other questions that we are not privvy to



do you seriously think that this was all that they were asked, its ridiculous to try and make a judgement based on newspaper articles?

its stupidity
I think you are the only one who has made a judgement TBH

My theory is that I dont know what happened to Maddy but IMO the Portuguese police get a lot of flack simply cuz they suspected the McCanns straight away but - and I cant really link to articles or give vids to watch but it is an opinion I have formed over the years - I think the Portuguese police police did a much better job that the highly expensive private investigators hired by the McCanns from donations made by the public. The Private firm seemed to be more concerned with PR exercises than finding Maddy. Of course I cant prove any of this but dig a little deeper and you'll see how incompetent they have been.

[Kazanne]

If my daughter was missing and presumed to be either already dead or at the very least in extreme danger, I literally wouldn't care about anything. At all. Least of all having a legal team, or taking their advice.

My thoughts exactly ,sod the legalities ,just get my daughter found.

[stevenmanu]

I would neve leave my kid on her or his own

[Cherie]

i am going to hazard a guess they did not think that a paedophile murder was in the vicinity


in the same way that families let their children walk to school like Milly Dowler's family did, sadly


No responsible parent lets their 2 and 4 year old walk anywhere on their own, Millie was 13

[Crimson Dynamo]

I would neve leave my kid on her or his own

How many do you have?

[stevenmanu]

I don't have any im just saying if I did

[Crimson Dynamo]

No responsible parent lets their 2 and 4 year old walk anywhere on their own, Millie was 13
Yes they do

Hence why thousands get abducted every year

Google it

[Kizzy]

She was doing what every person does in that situation, listens to her expert legal team


sorry is this some new concept for people on tibb?



Maybe Girth you can furnish the thread with examples of where joe public ignore their legal team to their great benefit in situations like this?

Also can you link to the interview with the police and the interview with kate where she explains her actions

Oi, you asked for input into this thread, don't get all supercilious when people comment... Nobody's on trial here :/

[Beso]

Threads going knowhere and its probably been discussed time and time again. People wont chanhe their minds on this one until the truth comes out.

[user104658]

Yes they do

Hence why thousands get abducted every year

Google it
The key word there was "responsible", LT. No responsible parent let's their 4 year old and toddlers walk to school on their own. And no responsible parent leaves children that age alone in a house / apartment / hotel room alone and goes off for dinner. In fact, I was reading an article just today about a couple being g arrested for going out and leaving their kids alone at home - the eldest of whom was 8.

Its reckless and irresponsible behaviour at best and in my opinion should be considered criminally negligent. They should have been arrested for their actions no matter what actually happened to the girl. There needs to be a very clear message that this is NOT OK.

Anyone who furthers the idea that the McCann's did nothing wrong by leaving those kids is simply telling other parents that it's acceptable parenting.

[Kazanne]

The key word there was "responsible", LT. No responsible parent let's their 4 year old and toddlers walk to school on their own. And no responsible parent leaves children that age alone in a house / apartment / hotel room alone and goes off for dinner. In fact, I was reading an article just today about a couple being g arrested for going out and leaving their kids alone at home - the eldest of whom was 8.

Its reckless and irresponsible behaviour at best and in my opinion should be considered criminally negligent. They should have been arrested for their actions no matter what actually happened to the girl. There needs to be a very clear message that this is NOT OK.

Anyone who furthers the idea that the McCann's did nothing wrong by leaving those kids is simply telling other parents that it's acceptable parenting.

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

[Jamie89]

If my daughter was missing and presumed to be either already dead or at the very least in extreme danger, I literally wouldn't care about anything. At all. Least of all having a legal team, or taking their advice.

You would probably still care about your other children. An innocent person ignoring legal advise knowing that it would likely lead to them being prosecuted and losing their children makes no sense whatsoever. Are people forgetting they still had other kids to look after? Of course legal advice would be sought.

And I think some people seem to be under the misconception that these questions would somehow result in Madeline being found, and by not answering them, they were hindering the search. But this isn't true, the questions were designed to incriminate the McCanns. Answering them would only have led to the discovery of Madeline's whereabouts, had the McCanns been guilty. So under the presumption that they were innocent, and knowing that they had two other children, their actions in this scenario makes perfect sense.

[joeysteele]

I would neve leave my kid on her or his own

Exactly.
Also in this case Kids left on their own not just one, one was even younger than Maddie.
Just to go and socialise.
It stinks rotten.

[Beso]

Exactly.
Also in this case Kids left on their own not just one, one was even younger than Maddie.
Just to go and socialise.
It stinks rotten.

Makes you wonder why someone would take the older child and climb out a window with them risking them waking up, when taking the younger one would probably be less risky, and easier.

[Kizzy]

The key word there was "responsible", LT. No responsible parent let's their 4 year old and toddlers walk to school on their own. And no responsible parent leaves children that age alone in a house / apartment / hotel room alone and goes off for dinner. In fact, I was reading an article just today about a couple being g arrested for going out and leaving their kids alone at home - the eldest of whom was 8.

Its reckless and irresponsible behaviour at best and in my opinion should be considered criminally negligent. They should have been arrested for their actions no matter what actually happened to the girl. There needs to be a very clear message that this is NOT OK.

Anyone who furthers the idea that the McCann's did nothing wrong by leaving those kids is simply telling other parents that it's acceptable parenting.

Great post TS, I agree!

[Kizzy]

Exactly.
Also in this case Kids left on their own not just one, one was even younger than Maddie.
Just to go and socialise.
It stinks rotten.

2 there were 2 others in the room, 3 under 5s... Seems crackers doesn't it?
To sit swilling wine down the road! I'm a parent and an ex *ahem* problem drinker, and I wouldn't have dreamed of doing that :/

[Moosething]

I actually agree with this article by Katie Hopkins
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3457221/KATIE-HOPKINS-ll-never-know-really-happened-Maddy-parents-accept-share-blame-let-go.html

[Denver]

Makes you wonder why someone would take the older child and climb out a window with them risking them waking up, when taking the younger one would probably be less risky, and easier.

This is another suspicious thing why kidnapp 1 child and not all of them? Why not take the younger kids who won't remember much

[Mokka]

This is another suspicious thing why kidnapp 1 child and not all of them? Why not take the younger kids who won't remember much

A pedophile Adam... it's vile but true unfortunately ... someone who would use a girl and get rid... who wasn't looking to raise one necessarily

[Mokka]

I guess I will throw my two cents in...

I think the parents were negligent to leave their children unattended... and it is something I never have, nor would I ever do. That being said, the price they paid was way steeper than any jail or prison sentence. Yes I feel sympathy for them... and heart wrenched for the daughter and what her life became in that moment... but I would need way more then the speculations that have happened to assume that the parents purposely set out to put their children in danger... or worse, plotted or planned their daughters disappearance/death.

And... If I were them I would continue to reach out to the press or authorities or who ever would listen to try to find out where Maddie is or what happened to her. The non-closure must be the worst... and I don't think it makes them attention seeking media *****s for doing it... at all.

[Jamie89]

I guess I will throw my two cents in...

I think the parents were negligent to leave their children unattended... and it is something I never have, nor would I ever do. That being said, the price they paid was way steeper than any jail or prison sentence. Yes I feel sympathy for them... and heart wrenched for the daughter and what her life became in that moment... but I would need way more then the speculations that have happened to assume that the parents purposely set out to put their children in danger... or worse, plotted or planned their daughters disappearance/death.

And... If I were them I would continue to reach out to the press or authorities or who ever would listen to try to find out where Maddie is or what happened to her. The non-closure must be the worst... and I don't think it makes them attention seeking media *****s for doing it... at all.

I agree with all of this.

[user104658]

but I would need way more then the speculations that have happened to assume that the parents purposely set out to put their children in danger... or worse, plotted or planned their daughters disappearance/death.

I don't think it's very likely that they wanted to or plotted to harm her. However, I also don't think it's very likely that a ninja-paedophile, or perhaps some sort of special forces trained Gypsy, was creeping around silently abducting children from their beds and leaving behind zero physical evidence. It IS pure speculation but the simplest, and in my opinion most likely, explanation for the entire thing is that she had a fatal accident while they were out and they panicked and covered it up. Because... err... even THEY probably realised that leaving a 4 year old and two younger kids unattended in a strange room at night was absolute ****ing madness.

[Mokka]

I don't think it's very likely that they wanted to or plotted to harm her. However, I also don't think it's very likely that a ninja-paedophile, or perhaps some sort of special forces trained Gypsy, was creeping around silently abducting children from their beds and leaving behind zero physical evidence. It IS pure speculation but the simplest, and in my opinion most likely, explanation for the entire thing is that she had a fatal accident while they were out and they panicked and covered it up. Because... err... even THEY probably realised that leaving a 4 year old and two younger kids unattended in a strange room at night was absolute ****ing madness.

And yet... you are speculating as much as all the rest is speculation. It's all speculation... I just believe in innocence until proven guilty... and there is no proof of guilt in any of these scenarios.

[user104658]

And yet... you are speculating as much as all the rest is speculation. It's all speculation... I just believe in innocence until proven guilty... and there is no proof of guilt in any of these scenarios.

Well yes I said it's all just speculation, but then, I also said earlier that I don't think it matters. Whether she was abducted or fell and hit her head and died, the outcome is the same, and the fact that they were negligent remains.

If anything, I really *want* to believe that she died quickly in an accident that was covered up. The alternative is horrendous.

[Ammi]

You would probably still care about your other children. An innocent person ignoring legal advise knowing that it would likely lead to them being prosecuted and losing their children makes no sense whatsoever. Are people forgetting they still had other kids to look after? Of course legal advice would be sought.

And I think some people seem to be under the misconception that these questions would somehow result in Madeline being found, and by not answering them, they were hindering the search. But this isn't true, the questions were designed to incriminate the McCanns. Answering them would only have led to the discovery of Madeline's whereabouts, had the McCanns been guilty. So under the presumption that they were innocent, and knowing that they had two other children, their actions in this scenario makes perfect sense.


..great post Jamie..whether it be 28/38/68 questions or whatever the number, legal advice would have said not to answer certain things, because we all know that the police are the 'enemy' in things like this and the only 'friend' is legal council and their advice...I think it would be an instinct for anyone and any parent to answer every question with honesty and assume that no guilt would be found if there was innocence/that innocent people don't get charged or convicted etc... but we all know that isn't true..and at times when their heads would have been in total chaos and they may have wanted to answer everything, that's where a legal advisor is needed because they have that clar head and experience to know that 'possibly incriminating' does not mean guilt but could lead to miscarriages of justice in the quest for wanting answers/a case solved and all neatly wrapped up, type thing....


...anyways (imo)...the worst parental judgement that night, I mean really...and then on top of that, the media images of Kate not looking like a 'stereotypical' distraught parent, whatever a stereotypical distraught parent is meant to look like because that would be different for every person...their holiday images of loving, devoted parents being overlooked in the images of Kate after Madeine's disappearance and the close scrutiny there...no evidence of being shocking parents beforehand and to my knowledge, none with the twins since...but in Portugal on that holiday, well...what on earth...

..this has often been compared to the disappearance of Ben Needham but there was a completely different public perspective with that..(obviously cases are not directly comparable in the details of..)..of Ben's mum more 'fulfilling' of the 'stereotypical mother in pain and despair'...something which gains the empathy/support of a public and something which Kate never had really, she was so much publicly judged for her actions after Madeleine's disappearance, obviously led by the media with that...and from then on in, I personally think that judgement and speculation was written in stone, nothing she would have done/said etc would have been viewed in anything other than a negative...

..she didn't answer questions but in answering those questions...(and assuming innocence until proven otherwise..)..those questions, if answered would not have made any difference to discovering what happened to Madeleine...but at the worst for instance, those answers could have meant two other children losing their mother to prison/to a wrongful imprisonment just adding to the initial tragedy of it all...or both parents, even...as well as never knowing their sister all of these years, they could have lost so much more../just so many wrongs could have been layered on and on...and yes, I am assuming innocence in terms of Madeleine disappearing because in 9 years, nothing else has been proved to charges having been made to be brought to trial...did their actions that night, lead directly to../of course, Madeleine had to be alone and what parent would ever....but 9 years on, they're still 'imprisoned' because of that, they no doubt will be for the rest of their lives...their own self imprisoned and totally deserved..?...ok, but the twins also will spend the rest of their lives, not only with probably never knowing their sister, but with having the full public suspicions of their mum and dad/the parents they love, having harmed her in some way/on top of their parent's extreme bad parenting those evening....it's something that they've been 'sentenced to as well'...


..(this is probably a bit garbled because I'm in a rush for work..)...


...just to add though, not only are the McCann's, self imprisoned for the rest of their lives for their unbelievable choices/decisions in Portugal, 9 years ago...but as devoted Catholics (I believe..)...they will also know that they will have to answer to their God, in their beliefs so if they did harm Madeline in any way...they full well know that they haven't 'got away' with anything....

[Ammi]

..this is a general public comment from a site on Kate and Gerry...

Would any real parents of a recently abducted child be smiling and laughing so much less than two week's later, cause no matter how much stress training anyone's had in their career's, emotional trauma's just isn't the same thing as work related stress, so someone's got their psychology totally out of line here, the McCann's are looking more like they've won the flippin lottery, and revelling in the attention they're getting...they look more and more psychotically disturbed the more I see them, they're just not real, they're behaviour is like paid actor's than of parents of an abducted child, that's probably why they've published photos of Madeleine made up of different kids parts, including their own photos, like the one of Kate aged 5 year's old in her red dress with her hair tied back, as if no one would recognise her... how pathetic!


...well, whatever the inclination to believe, the flipping over of that would be...'would any real parents of a recently abducted child, in full knowledge of themselves having a part in that 'abduction'..and two intelligent people, be laughing and smiling so much, within weeks of the disappearance..'...that wouldn't make sense to be true, to me...the 'stereotypical grief' would have very much been apparent...in my observations/and generalising, the 'obvious guilty parent' is most often the one 'endlessly and publicly crying with grief', straight after the disappearance...

[Beso]

their Catholicism is a pointer for me.

[Kazanne]

There were also babysitting services available,surely a responsible parent would use it if they needed to go out that badly and why didn't they use it ?

[Johnnyuk123]

There were also babysitting services available,surely a responsible parent would use it if they needed to go out that badly and why didn't they use it ?

Hi Kaz :wavey:
Do you or anyone know if they took a lie detector test cos that would help to sort it out.

[Kizzy]

Yes you can't trust the police, but you can always call on a catholic priest when your kids go missing :/

[Kazanne]

Hi Kaz :wavey:
Do you or anyone know if they took a lie detector test cos that would help to sort it out.

They never took one Johnny.

[Johnnyuk123]

They never took one Johnny.

Thanks,
Well that makes no sense at all Kaz. Any parent would want to quash any reports of it being them involved and would quickly ask to take that test to simply put a stop to that kind of speculation. They are not doing themselves any favours by refusing to take a lie detector test are they?

[Kazanne]

Thanks,
Well that makes no sense at all Kaz. Any parent would want to quash any reports of it being them involved and would quickly ask to take that test to simply put a stop to that kind of speculation. They are not doing themselves any favours by refusing to take a lie detector test are they?

No they are not,but they do seem quite akward about things and have been from the start,maybe why so many are suspicious of them.

[Johnnyuk123]

No they are not,but they do seem quite akward about things and have been from the start,maybe why so many are suspicious of them.

I agree,something just does not add up.

[Niamh.]

Well yes I said it's all just speculation, but then, I also said earlier that I don't think it matters. Whether she was abducted or fell and hit her head and died, the outcome is the same, and the fact that they were negligent remains.

If anything, I really *want* to believe that she died quickly in an accident that was covered up. The alternative is horrendous.

Yeah, pretty much

[Niamh.]

their Catholicism is a pointer for me.

A pointer of what?

[chuff me dizzy]

Im sure everyone knows my views on this farce by now,so I wont go back over them as I prefer staying in my groups that are fighting for the truth to finally be heard,but I wanted to share these amazing videos with you ,take the time to watch all 4 ,and hopefully you can educate yourself as to the facts not what the red tops ram down our necks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZV9Ten-HkY&list=PLZMKyxCrc7mCrso1IBCEPLmTe2odeo2Tl

[Kazanne]

Im sure everyone knows my views on this farce by now,so I wont go back over them as I prefer staying in my groups that are fighting for the truth to finally be heard,but I wanted to share these amazing videos with you ,take the time to watch all 4 ,and hopefully you can educate yourself as to the facts not what the red tops ram down our necks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZV9Ten-HkY&list=PLZMKyxCrc7mCrso1IBCEPLmTe2odeo2Tl

Thanks Chuff,I will definitely watch them all,interesting stuff :wavey:

[chuff me dizzy]

Thanks Chuff,I will definitely watch them all,interesting stuff :wavey:

So much better than reading the Sun lies

[chuff me dizzy]

Exactly, Cherie,whatever happened to that child started with sheer neglect from her parents.

Kaz don't fall for that lie, neglect is McCanns alibi,without claiming they neglected the children they couldn't claim Maddie had been abducted,Every night of the holiday one adult was "ill" so this person was the babysitter, the twins were not even in 5a on the 3rd May,the night the alibi was made ....Maddie died days before we even knew her name

[Jamie89]

Kaz don't fall for that lie, neglect is McCanns alibi,without claiming they neglected the children they couldn't claim Maddie had been abducted,Every night of the holiday one adult was "ill" so this person was the babysitter, the twins were not even in 5a on the 3rd May,the night the alibi was made ....Maddie died days before we even knew her name

Is there any evidence for that theory?

[Livia]

Is there any evidence for that theory?

I'm going to jump in here and say definitively: NO.

[chuff me dizzy]

Is there any evidence for that theory?

Have you watched the videos i posted? if you had and had dug deep into the case,you will find plenty of evidence to back my claim ,don't accept.....search

[Livia]

Have you watched the videos i posted? if you had and had dug deep into the case,you will find plenty of evidence to back my claim ,don't accept.....search

You are a loss to the legal profession.

Or.... not.

[chuff me dizzy]

You are a loss to the legal profession.

Or.... not.

The "legal profession " you wish you were in Miss Marples ?

[Niamh.]

i am going to hazard a guess they did not think that a paedophile murder was in the vicinity


in the same way that families let their children walk to school like Milly Dowler's family did, sadly

There's no evidence of such a person you know, just as much as there's no evidence that the parents were involved.

How would you feel about a parent letting their 2 year old twins and 4 year old walk to school alone as a matter of interest? :think:

[Jamie89]

Have you watched the videos i posted? if you had and had dug deep into the case,you will find plenty of evidence to back my claim ,don't accept.....search

4 hours of unfounded conspiracy theories? No I haven't. I'm sure they're entertaining but looking at the facts of the case objectively, without them being presented with an agenda, there isn't any actual evidence of what you're suggesting. Suspicions are one thing but suspicious behavior does not equal child murderer.

[chuff me dizzy]

4 hours of unfounded conspiracy theories? No I haven't. I'm sure they're entertaining but looking at the facts of the case objectively, without them being presented with an agenda, there isn't any actual evidence of what you're suggesting. Suspicions are one thing but suspicious behavior does not equal child murderer.

Believe what you want to believe, Im past caring to be honest

[user104658]

Know what I do find sort of telling? No one has any problem whatsoever with speculation surrounding the Stephen Avery "Making a Murderer" stuff, documentaries about it, countless theories, it's all sort of accepted as being fine to have opinions and theories...

...but try to suggest an alternate theory in the Maddie case, or suggest that any of the surrounding events aren't whiter-than-white and above board and could have happened to anyone and oh it's fine to all leave your kids alone, at night, in unlocked apartments, in a foreign country... and you get shot down from all angles. Because :omgno: Middle Class British Folks! How dare you suggest they are anything other than exemplary parents. You must simply believe the also entirely assumed / guesswork narrative that Maddie was abducted. There is ZERO EVIDENCE that she was abducted by a paedophile. The evidence is that she was left alone in a room, and that she silently disappeared from that room while her siblings were left asleep and unharmed. That's it. That's the whole story, as far as 100% verified evidence goes.

But it's fine to theorise that she was abducted by MI5 trained stealth Gypsy paedophiles... just don't dare theorise that anyone else had anything to do with it :nono:

[Niamh.]

Know what I do find sort of telling? No one has any problem whatsoever with speculation surrounding the Stephen Avery "Making a Murderer" stuff, documentaries about it, countless theories, it's all sort of accepted as being fine to have opinions and theories...

...but try to suggest an alternate theory in the Maddie case, or suggest that any of the surrounding events aren't whiter-than-white and above board and could have happened to anyone and oh it's fine to all leave your kids alone, at night, in unlocked apartments, in a foreign country... and you get shot down from all angles. Because :omgno: Middle Class British Folks! How dare you suggest they are anything other than exemplary parents. You must simply believe the also entirely assumed / guesswork narrative that Maddie was abducted. There is ZERO EVIDENCE that she was abducted by a paedophile. The evidence is that she was left alone in a room, and that she silently disappeared from that room while her siblings were left asleep and unharmed. That's it. That's the whole story, as far as 100% verified evidence goes.

But it's fine to theorise that she was abducted by MI5 trained stealth Gypsy paedophiles... just don't dare theorise that anyone else had anything to do with it :nono:

:clap2:

[Cherie]

Know what I do find sort of telling? No one has any problem whatsoever with speculation surrounding the Stephen Avery "Making a Murderer" stuff, documentaries about it, countless theories, it's all sort of accepted as being fine to have opinions and theories...

...but try to suggest an alternate theory in the Maddie case, or suggest that any of the surrounding events aren't whiter-than-white and above board and could have happened to anyone and oh it's fine to all leave your kids alone, at night, in unlocked apartments, in a foreign country... and you get shot down from all angles. Because :omgno: Middle Class British Folks! How dare you suggest they are anything other than exemplary parents. You must simply believe the also entirely assumed / guesswork narrative that Maddie was abducted. There is ZERO EVIDENCE that she was abducted by a paedophile. The evidence is that she was left alone in a room, and that she silently disappeared from that room while her siblings were left asleep and unharmed. That's it. That's the whole story, as far as 100% verified evidence goes.

But it's fine to theorise that she was abducted by MI5 trained stealth Gypsy paedophiles... just don't dare theorise that anyone else had anything to do with it :nono:


:clap2: I find it incredible that leaving babies on their own in strange surroundings is accepted as something alot of parents do when this simply isn't the case parents I have encountered have baby monitors IN THEIR HOMES fgs

[Niamh.]

:clap2: I find it incredible that leaving babies on their own in strange surroundings is accepted as something alot of parents do when this simply isn't the case parents I have encountered have baby monitors IN THEIR HOMES fgs

I know :/ My youngest used to regularly wake up in the night up until he was 8/9ish, he would have totally freaked out if he woke up in the dark with no adult there, just that reason alone would have made me not leave him alone at home or anywhere else

[user104658]

:clap2: I find it incredible that leaving babies on their own in strange surroundings is accepted as something alot of parents do when this simply isn't the case parents I have encountered have baby monitors IN THEIR HOMES fgs

I ran a parenting forum for 3 and a half years, nothing surprises me any more. Like you, I assumed that parents leaving their kids in such risky circumstances must be rare - until a thread came up about something called "monitor minding"... which is, basically, giving a baby monitor to a neighbour within monitor range (sometimes next door, but some mentioned several doors down / opposite sides of the street), putting the kids to bed and then going out leaving them alone in the house :umm2:. People are doing this with babies just a few months old! And seem to think nothing of it.

Another one that came up, was a news story about parents doping up their kids with various meds for flights... the thread started out with people being incredulous / couln't believe anyone would do it / how risky it is to give kids adult meds at any time let alone at 60,000 feet with no access to medical help... and then... all hell broke loose because - yep, you guessed it - a few of our members had done it and thought it was fine and were "horribly offended" that it was being suggested that they were being risky. One of them was giving her 4 year old "drowsy" antihistamines EVERY DAY for regular journies in the car... the mind boggles.

But yeah this stuff is much more common than I'd ever imagined.

[Jamie89]

Believe what you want to believe, Im past caring to be honest

It's not a case of me believing any particular theory, for all I know they might be guilty (although personally I think it's very unlikely). What I'm saying is that noone can be certain either way because there simply isn't the evidence. Just a bunch of stuff that looks kinda dodgy and I don't think that's enough to condemn someone as a child murderer.

Know what I do find sort of telling? No one has any problem whatsoever with speculation surrounding the Stephen Avery "Making a Murderer" stuff, documentaries about it, countless theories, it's all sort of accepted as being fine to have opinions and theories...

...but try to suggest an alternate theory in the Maddie case, or suggest that any of the surrounding events aren't whiter-than-white and above board and could have happened to anyone and oh it's fine to all leave your kids alone, at night, in unlocked apartments, in a foreign country... and you get shot down from all angles. Because :omgno: Middle Class British Folks! How dare you suggest they are anything other than exemplary parents. You must simply believe the also entirely assumed / guesswork narrative that Maddie was abducted. There is ZERO EVIDENCE that she was abducted by a paedophile. The evidence is that she was left alone in a room, and that she silently disappeared from that room while her siblings were left asleep and unharmed. That's it. That's the whole story, as far as 100% verified evidence goes.

But it's fine to theorise that she was abducted by MI5 trained stealth Gypsy paedophiles... just don't dare theorise that anyone else had anything to do with it :nono:

There's nothing wrong with theorising if that's all it is, and if people are aware that their theories are simply that. It can become dangerous when people start to believe their theories and go on to perpetuate them as fact, when the result is someone being labeled a child killer.

[user104658]

I know :/ My youngest used to regularly wake up in the night up until he was 8/9ish, he would have totally freaked out if he woke up in the dark with no adult there, just that reason alone would have made me not leave him alone at home or anywhere else

We didn't even leave my first daughter with other people when she was young as she used to wake and look for us. Luckily, when she hit about 5, she started sleeping like a log. Too well if anything. No amount of noise wakes her (she used to be SUCH a light sleeper) and getting her OUT of bed for school is a military operation.

My younger daughter doesn't GAF who happens to be there if she wakes up (which she does, semi regularly). She just barrels back down the stairs and starts playing. Or just plays right there in the bedroom in the pitch dark :umm2:.

[Niamh.]

We didn't even leave my first daughter with other people when she was young as she used to wake and look for us. Luckily, when she hit about 5, she started sleeping like a log. Too well if anything. No amount of noise wakes her (she used to be SUCH a light sleeper) and getting her OUT of bed for school is a military operation.

My younger daughter doesn't GAF who happens to be there if she wakes up (which she does, semi regularly). She just barrels back down the stairs and starts playing. Or just plays right there in the bedroom in the pitch dark :umm2:.

and also, not only did they leave those babies alone like that, they did it after Maddie had told them that she and her younger brother had woken up the previous night and cried because they couldn't find their parents...... that is heartless to me

[Cherie]

I ran a parenting forum for 3 and a half years, nothing surprises me any more. Like you, I assumed that parents leaving their kids in such risky circumstances must be rare - until a thread came up about something called "monitor minding"... which is, basically, giving a baby monitor to a neighbour within monitor range (sometimes next door, but some mentioned several doors down / opposite sides of the street), putting the kids to bed and then going out leaving them alone in the house :umm2:. People are doing this with babies just a few months old! And seem to think nothing of it.

Another one that came up, was a news story about parents doping up their kids with various meds for flights... the thread started out with people being incredulous / couln't believe anyone would do it / how risky it is to give kids adult meds at any time let alone at 60,000 feet with no access to medical help... and then... all hell broke loose because - yep, you guessed it - a few of our members had done it and thought it was fine and were "horribly offended" that it was being suggested that they were being risky. One of them was giving her 4 year old "drowsy" antihistamines EVERY DAY for regular journies in the car... the mind boggles.

But yeah this stuff is much more common than I'd ever imagined.


We did the baby monitor once when my eldest was about 14 months we were in a hotel with no baby sitting facilities, we did a test run from from the restaurant to see if the range was okay, sat down to dinner after 10 minutes of silence we got freaked out that the monitor wasn't working properly so went back to the room and got take out, we couldn't relax so it wasn't worth it. Even now when I leave my teens at home I worry the house will catch fire or one of them will trip and fall down the stairs :fist:

[Ammi]

Know what I do find sort of telling? No one has any problem whatsoever with speculation surrounding the Stephen Avery "Making a Murderer" stuff, documentaries about it, countless theories, it's all sort of accepted as being fine to have opinions and theories...

...but try to suggest an alternate theory in the Maddie case, or suggest that any of the surrounding events aren't whiter-than-white and above board and could have happened to anyone and oh it's fine to all leave your kids alone, at night, in unlocked apartments, in a foreign country... and you get shot down from all angles. Because :omgno: Middle Class British Folks! How dare you suggest they are anything other than exemplary parents. You must simply believe the also entirely assumed / guesswork narrative that Maddie was abducted. There is ZERO EVIDENCE that she was abducted by a paedophile. The evidence is that she was left alone in a room, and that she silently disappeared from that room while her siblings were left asleep and unharmed. That's it. That's the whole story, as far as 100% verified evidence goes.

But it's fine to theorise that she was abducted by MI5 trained stealth Gypsy paedophiles... just don't dare theorise that anyone else had anything to do with it :nono:



..'sort of telling' of what, I wonder...the two things are not comparable at all...even in disregarding that 'Making a Murderer' was a documentary series, specifically outlining two serious crimes/one of which was a murder and with the sole intent to create speculation and intrigue..because the fist crime, that Stephen was found guilty of in a court of law, he was in fact innocent of...and he still professes innocence to the murder of Teresa, having experienced his 'guilt being manipulated once' by police and a judicial system...(I'm going to assume you meant me when you said that because of the few people involved in that thread, of which I was one of... and I'm not speculating any guilt with the MaCanns, other than their leaving the children alone that night...)...my personal theory was that Stephen killed her, which is the thoughts I gave in the thread, 'my theory' as it were ..Stephen Avery, the person that has been charged and convicted of her murder is the one who is also guilty of it, both in my personal thoughts and presently in the eyes of the law..but whatever speculations and theories anyone concluded from it all, it's what a specific series was aimed at doing/causing because if Stephen didn't kill her, then there is still a murderer out there and free....there was a body/remains of one, so there was a definite murder and a murderer, absolutely no question or doubt at all about that...there is no body here, so there is not necessarily any death, let alone a murder or someone responsible for that death, in the way that many of the public have speculated...what there is, is a disappearance of an unattended child and much obvious interest and speculation about her disappearance....


...very shabby indeed TS, as to what would be 'sort of telling'...or in drawing any comparison at all in the two things...

[joeysteele]

Know what I do find sort of telling? No one has any problem whatsoever with speculation surrounding the Stephen Avery "Making a Murderer" stuff, documentaries about it, countless theories, it's all sort of accepted as being fine to have opinions and theories...

...but try to suggest an alternate theory in the Maddie case, or suggest that any of the surrounding events aren't whiter-than-white and above board and could have happened to anyone and oh it's fine to all leave your kids alone, at night, in unlocked apartments, in a foreign country... and you get shot down from all angles. Because :omgno: Middle Class British Folks! How dare you suggest they are anything other than exemplary parents. You must simply believe the also entirely assumed / guesswork narrative that Maddie was abducted. There is ZERO EVIDENCE that she was abducted by a paedophile. The evidence is that she was left alone in a room, and that she silently disappeared from that room while her siblings were left asleep and unharmed. That's it. That's the whole story, as far as 100% verified evidence goes.

But it's fine to theorise that she was abducted by MI5 trained stealth Gypsy paedophiles... just don't dare theorise that anyone else had anything to do with it :nono:

Another great post.

[Niamh.]

..'sort of telling' of what, I wonder...the two things are not comparable at all...even in disregarding that 'Making a Murderer' was a documentary series, specifically outlining two serious crimes/one of which was a murder and with the sole intent to create speculation and intrigue..because the fist crime, that Stephen was found guilty of in a court of law, he was in fact innocent of...and he still professes innocence to the murder of Teresa, having experienced his 'guilt being manipulated once' by police and a judicial system...(I'm going to assume you meant me when you said that because of the few people involved in that thread, of which I was one of... and I'm not speculating any guilt with the MaCanns, other than their leaving the children alone that night...)...my personal theory was that Stephen killed her, which is the thoughts I gave in the thread, 'my theory' as it were ..Stephen Avery, the person that has been charged and convicted of her murder is the one who is also guilty of it, both in my personal thoughts and presently in the eyes of the law..but whatever speculations and theories anyone concluded from it all, it's what a specific series was aimed at doing/causing because if Stephen didn't kill her, then there is still a murderer out there and free....there was a body/remains of one, so there was a definite murder and a murderer, absolutely no question or doubt at all about that...there is no body here, so there is not necessarily any death, let alone a murder or someone responsible for that death, in the way that many of the public have speculated...what there is, is a disappearance of an unattended child and much obvious interest and speculation about her disappearance....


...very shabby indeed TS, as to what would be 'sort of telling'...or in drawing any comparison at all in the two things...

I don't want to speak for TS but what i took him to mean re the Steve Avery case was people were happy to speculate and to suggest that it may have been Teresas brother or ex B/f or Brendans brother and step dad etc, I don't think he was specifically referring to you Ammi just a general observation on how one thing is ok to do but the other is not

[*mazedsalv**]

I've always had an idea that they are either guilty or at least know something they have not told the press.

Why did they not get the "blame the parents" asap after the disappearance just like other kidnap stories? Oh I know why because they are not working class or live in a council estate. If they were, they'd get the same reaction as the media gave to Shannon Matthews and her family. But the Mum was responsible for hiding her for money right?

I bet these two are doing the same, and have her either hidden her, covering for someone for whatever reason or did something terrible to her... and the fact they come across as "richer", they must be innocent, right? LOL.

It doesn't add up, for stuff like Sarah Payne, Milly Dowler, Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman, the family of those disappearances actually made sense, and in all cases, they found who was responsible.

The fact she ignored questions asked to her makes me suspicious. If my child was missing, I'd do anything i could do help assist the police.

[Ammi]

I don't want to speak for TS but what i took him to mean re the Steve Avery case was people were happy to speculate and to suggest that it may have been Teresas brother or ex B/f or Brendans brother and step dad etc, I don't think he was specifically referring to you Ammi just a general observation on how one thing is ok to do but the other is not

..the two are not comparable at all though because a crime/murder had occurred and a murderer had been charged and sentenced and it was described as an 'unprecedented thriller series' and made to invite theories and speculations etc...I'm not going to divert the thread anymore with Making of a Murderer because it has no connection to any similarities with Madeleine's disappearance whatsoever...and to make any connection at all and relate it to anyone else's opinions was extremely shabby...imo of course...

[user104658]

I don't want to speak for TS but what i took him to mean re the Steve Avery case was people were happy to speculate and to suggest that it may have been Teresas brother or ex B/f or Brendans brother and step dad etc, I don't think he was specifically referring to you Ammi just a general observation on how one thing is ok to do but the other is not

That's pretty much it Niamh and no it wasn't directed at Ammi... just generally people getting up-in-arms about any speculation on the McCann case. People generally don't have much problem with speculation over... welll... pretty much anything at all that has a high media profile. But the McCann's seem to get "special consideration" because they are (or were) basically a prefab of "good old English". Two white, middle class, middle England, middle aged, well spoken, well educated doctors. Just two respectable people and wonderful parents (or course, they were middle class doctors!) who were doing absolutely nothing wrong and fell on the wrong side of fate, and on the right side of a Union Jack teacosy.

If it was little Tiffany snatched out of a grubby hotel room in Faliraki while parents Wayne and Candice were out doing shots at the club down the road, they would be absolutely slaughtered in the press, in public chit-chat, and on forums, and far fewer people (if anyone) would be strapping up their ranty-boots to defend them. The reality is, the situation would be exactly the same.

[user104658]

..the two are not comparable at all though because a crime/murder had occurred and a murderer had been charged and sentenced and it was described as an 'unprecedented thriller series' and made to invite theories and speculations etc...I'm not going to divert the thread anymore with Making of a Murderer because it has no connection to any similarities with Madeleine's disappearance whatsoever...and to make any connection at all and relate it to anyone else's opinions was extremely shabby...imo of course...

Of course it's comparable. A crime was committed (this part is certain in both cases) and people are speculating / debating over what may actually have happened. You say that the difference is that a murderer was charged and sentenced in one case whereas in the other no one has ever been charged and an exact scenario has never even been accepted by the authorities as the true chain of events.

If anything, is it not far LESS appropriate to speculate over a case where a verdict has already been given in a court of law, than on one where literally no one even claims to know exactly what happened? There is no status-quo timeline to accept, other than that "a little girl went missing somehow". It's wide open for speculation... and not much else.

[Ammi]

That's pretty much it Niamh and no it wasn't directed at Ammi... just generally people getting up-in-arms about any speculation on the McCann case. People generally don't have much problem with speculation over... welll... pretty much anything at all that has a high media profile. But the McCann's seem to get "special consideration" because they are (or were) basically a prefab of "good old English". Two white, middle class, middle England, middle aged, well spoken, well educated doctors. Just two respectable people and wonderful parents (or course, they were middle class doctors!) who were doing absolutely nothing wrong and fell on the wrong side of fate, and on the right side of a Union Jack teacosy.

If it was little Tiffany snatched out of a grubby hotel room in Faliraki while parents Wayne and Candice were out doing shots at the club down the road, they would be absolutely slaughtered in the press, in public chit-chat, and on forums, and far fewer people (if anyone) would be strapping up their ranty-boots to defend them. The reality is, the situation would be exactly the same.


...Making of a Murderer/the Stephen Avery case was never a high media profile case in the UK, I doubt many people had heard of it at all..it was a series, intended to cause the speculation that it caused...it would have pretty much failed, if it hadn't because it was made for 'entertainment' value, like any series...as for the rest of your condescending post, well I personally find that very telling as well...I would very much say that the McCanns have been completely 'slaughtered' in the last nine years, they couldn't really have been anymore slaughtered than they have...

[Kazanne]

Can anyone make sense of this ?
http://i.imgur.com/T13Oikq.jpg

[GiRTh]

That's pretty much it Niamh and no it wasn't directed at Ammi... just generally people getting up-in-arms about any speculation on the McCann case. People generally don't have much problem with speculation over... welll... pretty much anything at all that has a high media profile. But the McCann's seem to get "special consideration" because they are (or were) basically a prefab of "good old English". Two white, middle class, middle England, middle aged, well spoken, well educated doctors. Just two respectable people and wonderful parents (or course, they were middle class doctors!) who were doing absolutely nothing wrong and fell on the wrong side of fate, and on the right side of a Union Jack teacosy.

If it was little Tiffany snatched out of a grubby hotel room in Faliraki while parents Wayne and Candice were out doing shots at the club down the road, they would be absolutely slaughtered in the press, in public chit-chat, and on forums, and far fewer people (if anyone) would be strapping up their ranty-boots to defend them. The reality is, the situation would be exactly the same.Totally agree. I also dont think Wayne and Candice would have the connections to contact the media as quicky as the M<cCanns.

[James]

That's pretty much it Niamh and no it wasn't directed at Ammi... just generally people getting up-in-arms about any speculation on the McCann case. People generally don't have much problem with speculation over... welll... pretty much anything at all that has a high media profile. But the McCann's seem to get "special consideration" because they are (or were) basically a prefab of "good old English". Two white, middle class, middle England, middle aged, well spoken, well educated doctors. Just two respectable people and wonderful parents (or course, they were middle class doctors!) who were doing absolutely nothing wrong and fell on the wrong side of fate, and on the right side of a Union Jack teacosy.

If it was little Tiffany snatched out of a grubby hotel room in Faliraki while parents Wayne and Candice were out doing shots at the club down the road, they would be absolutely slaughtered in the press, in public chit-chat, and on forums, and far fewer people (if anyone) would be strapping up their ranty-boots to defend them. The reality is, the situation would be exactly the same.

The reactions to the McCanns have gone completely the other way now - they get more criticism for being middle-class.

From Wikipedia:


The couple's middle-class status, at first protective, soon turned into a weapon against them. They were harshly criticized for having left their children alone, despite the availability of Ocean Club babysitters. Seventeen thousand people signed an online petition in June 2007 asking Leicestershire Social Services to investigate. The argument ran that a working-class couple might have faced child-abandonment charges, but a group of doctors on a posh holiday had been let off the hook.[169].....

.....The [Leveson] inquiry heard that the editor of the Daily Express, in particular, had become "obsessed" by the McCanns. Lord Justice Leveson called the Express articles "complete piffle"; Roy Greenslade described them as "a sustained campaign of vitriol."[171] British tabloids would simply repeat Portuguese tabloid stories, which in turn made no mention of sources. "Maddie 'Sold' By Hard-Up McCanns" ran a headline in the Daily Star.[172]

Kate McCann..... came in for particular attention, considered too attractive, too thin, too well-dressed, too intense, too controlled and not mumsy enough, according to media analyst Caroline Bainbridge. Much of the commentary came from female journalists.[173] Several tabloids criticized her for not crying in public, despite her obvious distress.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Madeleine_McCann#Media_coverage

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2008/mar/19/expressandstarapologiesto

[Vicky.]

Ask your husband love.

[Vicky.]

My main theory and opinion is that they medicated the children and Maddie woke and in a disorientated state, somehow fell in between the couch and the window, perhaps looking for her parents and hit her head. The McCanns then panicked because of the sedation and the fact they had been left alone and so decided to cover it up. Unfortunately, I fear no one will know the truth and it saddens me that Maddie has not been laid to rest properly.

My theory too.

I'm not sure Kate had *much* to do with the whole finding and hiding thing though. I do think it was mainly Gerry as Kate seems to be rather emotional whereas he comes across as a cold blooded psycho at times tbh.

She obviously knows now what happened that night

The poor twins though, will go searching themselves before long for what happened. I wonder what they will make of the actual police files and such given they will have heard the 'fantasy' version (which is bad enough)

[Kazanne]

“Maddie wasn’t lost because someone took her. She was lost because she was left to be found.”

Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/2814905/madeleine-mccann-katie-hopkins-says-parents-share-blame/#126olPx2tWC41QPs.99

[Vicky.]

Since when has it been allowed to discuss (in the media) the Mcs sitting on the 'prime suspect' photo for 5 years before Redwood showed it to the world as a 'new discovery' :o

[Kizzy]

I thought they sued anyone who even suggested they were ever suspected?

[Niamh.]

..the two are not comparable at all though because a crime/murder had occurred and a murderer had been charged and sentenced and it was described as an 'unprecedented thriller series' and made to invite theories and speculations etc...I'm not going to divert the thread anymore with Making of a Murderer because it has no connection to any similarities with Madeleine's disappearance whatsoever...and to make any connection at all and relate it to anyone else's opinions was extremely shabby...imo of course...

It doesn't matter though if that's what the documentary wanted from a person, there's plenty of documentaries made too about Maddie McCann, some wanting you to think one way and some wanting you to think another. The difference being that no one actually knows what happened to the victim in the McCann case, nevermind who was responsible (although clearly some of that responsibility lies with her parents regardless of what happened that night imo)

Actually, I was thinking earlier what peoples opinions would be if the scenario was slightly different and instead of Maddie just disappearing without a trace she got up looking for her parents, couldn't find them so went out the unlocked patio door and fell in the pool and drowned while trying to find them. I wonder what peoples opinions on that situation would be? Would they still find the McCanns to be blameless?

[Crimson Dynamo]

All 3 couples Inc the McCann's thought it was safe to leave there kids in the apartment and check on them every half hour. People may not like that but it's not illegal. If they owners had told them there had been 2 incidents of intrusion in the last month they would not have done this.

[Niamh.]

All 3 couples Inc the McCann's thought it was safe to leave there kids in the apartment and check on them every half hour. People may not like that but it's not illegal. If they owners had told them there had been 2 incidents of intrusion in the last month they would not have done this.

I'm pretty sure it is illegal to leave 3 kids under the age of 4 home alone :shrug:

[Niamh.]

All 3 couples Inc the McCann's thought it was safe to leave there kids in the apartment and check on them every half hour. People may not like that but it's not illegal. If they owners had told them there had been 2 incidents of intrusion in the last month they would not have done this.

This is an honest question LT but when your children were that young did you ever take them abroad on holiday and if so did you ever go out to the pub/restaurant without them?

Anytime we ever took the kids on holiday, we always brought them with us in the evenings when we went to eat as does pretty much everyone I know who has young kids :shrug:

[Crimson Dynamo]

I'm pretty sure it is illegal to leave 3 kids under the age of 4 home alone :shrug:

They didn't tho. They were in an apartment complex.

[Niamh.]

They didn't tho. They were in an apartment complex.

They were in a restaurant and left the kids alone in their holiday apartment with the door unlocked......with a pool on the door step practically ......... after Maddie had previously told her parents she woke up scared and alone and crying the night before........but yeah carry on defending that and telling us that all parents would do it, you can speak for yourself cos I sure as hell never did. And noI'm by no means a "perfect parent" but that was gross neglect, selfishness and callousness

[T*]

They didn't tho. They were in an apartment complex.

It's still child neglect no matter where they are

[T*]

They were in a restaurant and left the kids alone in their holiday apartment with the door unlocked......with a pool on the door step practically ......... after Maddie had previously told her parents she woke up scared and alone and crying the night before........but yeah carry on defending that and telling us that all parents would do it, you can speak for yourself cos I sure as hell never did. And noI'm by no means a "perfect parent" but that was gross neglect, selfishness and callousness

:clap1:

[joeysteele]

They were in a restaurant and left the kids alone in their holiday apartment with the door unlocked......with a pool on the door step practically ......... after Maddie had previously told her parents she woke up scared and alone and crying the night before........but yeah carry on defending that and telling us that all parents would do it, you can speak for yourself cos I sure as hell never did. And noI'm by no means a "perfect parent" but that was gross neglect, selfishness and callousness

Excellent post.
Leaving just Maddie alone was bad enough but leaving her with 2 younger children in the same place too, should be criminal.

[T*]

Like seriously kids can do harm especially at that age if you leave them alone for like 5 minutes

It's 100% neglect

[Marsh.]

All 3 couples Inc the McCann's thought it was safe to leave there kids in the apartment and check on them every half hour. People may not like that but it's not illegal. If they owners had told them there had been 2 incidents of intrusion in the last month they would not have done this.

If a parent was caught leaving their young child home alone whilst popping round the corner to their local it most certainly would be illegal. I don't see how this scenario is different just because they were in a holiday complex.

[user104658]

All 3 couples Inc the McCann's thought it was safe to leave there kids in the apartment and check on them every half hour. People may not like that but it's not illegal. If they owners had told them there had been 2 incidents of intrusion in the last month they would not have done this.
All the couples thought it was fine? Not sure what your point is there. All three couples were wrong, all three should have known better. Doing something reckless "because everyone else was doing it" is hardly a new thing, but it's just as stupid as it ever was.

As for it "not being illegal" - again, so what? Since when are the boundaries of morality or risk entirely within the confines of legality? We could sit here all day listing stupid, reckless **** that is technically legal.

[Marsh.]

All 3 couples Inc the McCann's thought it was safe to leave there kids in the apartment and check on them every half hour. People may not like that but it's not illegal. If they owners had told them there had been 2 incidents of intrusion in the last month they would not have done this.

I doubt it. They continued to leave the kids alone even after Maddie told them she'd tried to find them the night before and cried herself silly. Even though their apartment was accessible from the street and none of the doors were locked.

There are dangers inside a home far more immediate to a child of that age than potential outside dangers so that's no excuse imo.

[lime]

It doesn't matter though if that's what the documentary wanted from a person, there's plenty of documentaries made too about Maddie McCann, some wanting you to think one way and some wanting you to think another. The difference being that no one actually knows what happened to the victim in the McCann case, nevermind who was responsible (although clearly some of that responsibility lies with her parents regardless of what happened that night imo)

Actually, I was thinking earlier what peoples opinions would be if the scenario was slightly different and instead of Maddie just disappearing without a trace she got up looking for her parents, couldn't find them so went out the unlocked patio door and fell in the pool and drowned while trying to find them. I wonder what peoples opinions on that situation would be? Would they still find the McCanns to be blameless?


:worship::worship:

totally agree Niamh..I have no idea what happened to this poor child ...what I do know is that she would be safe if it wasn't for the neglect of her parents.I am by no means the perfect parent mine are boys 24,23,20 and an 11yr old girl.I would be sick to my stomach if I was neglectful enough to leave them unsupervised....and then even though Maddie cried to her parents about waking up without them being there ....to carry on being so neglectful is showing me ...something isn't right there

[Niamh.]

I doubt it. They continued to leave the kids alone even after Maddie told them she'd tried to find them the night before and cried herself silly. Even though their apartment was accessible from the street and none of the doors were locked.

There are dangers inside a home far more immediate to a child of that age than potential outside dangers so that's no excuse imo.

Exactly. And what exactly was the purpose of the open Patio door? It was only an extra danger to the kids, besides the fact that anyone could just walk straight in, Maddie could walk straight out, fall in the pool, get run over by a car, fall and injury herself etc etc What if there was a fire in the apartment?

[Jack_]

Well I don't know what happened to my initial post in my thread but looks like I was right :laugh: eight pages...good going

Anyway the crux of the issue is that regardless of whether the McCann's are guilty or not, the overly sympathetic, can-do-no-wrong attitude they are afforded by you, the media and the large majority of people who take an interest in this story is nothing more than class based privilege. How could two well educated doctors play any role in the disappearance of their child? That kind of thing just doesn't happen to 'people like them'. Replace them with two parents living on a council estate in Bradford and I'm sure the attitudes would be very different. In fact, for proof of this you only need to look at the Shannon Matthews case. A similar time, yet completely different reporting and discussion of it.

The McCann story is a classic case of missing white girl syndrome and as sad it is, the overexposure of this story over the years has been completely ludicrous

[Niamh.]

:worship::worship:

totally agree Niamh..I have no idea what happened to this poor child ...what I do know is that she would be safe if it wasn't for the neglect of her parents.I am by no means the perfect parent mine are boys 24,23,20 and an 11yr old girl.I would be sick to my stomach if I was neglectful enough to leave them unsupervised....and then even though Maddie cried to her parents about waking up without them being there ....to carry on being so neglectful is showing me ...something isn't right there

Oh that's a big gap! I bet those are very over protective big brothers :laugh:

And yeah, I guess, especially after Maddie had told them she woke up and was scared and crying and they still did it after that is what gets me even more than anything. I would be horrified with myself and consumed with guilt for just that incident alone

[Z]

They are the worst and I am sicking of hearing from them, I am sick of seeing their detestable faces claiming they have a feeling that they might know that she's probably still maybe where they definitely last saw her but perhaps was always there but never left but might not be there at all. No. Stop it. I'm convinced they know more than they've let on and I'm convinced that they should be in jail for the massive amount of resources they have wasted through their lack of cooperation for THEIR MISSING CHILD. It makes me so angry and if by some miracle they find Madeleine McCann alive and well, I hope they never get her back. They make me so angry.

[lime]

Oh that's a big gap! I bet those are very over protective big brothers :laugh:

And yeah, I guess, especially after Maddie had told them she woke up and was scared and crying and they still did it after that is what gets me even more than anything. I would be horrified with myself and consumed with guilt for just that incident alone


yeah ..probalby a little over protective....But you know what as a parent even still when the lads are working away (the two oldest) or when my youngest lad goes away with his mates for the weekend...I still worry about them..so how a parent can sit down and eat a plate of food knowing that these babies were alone in a strange country is beyond me

[Josy]

All 3 couples Inc the McCann's thought it was safe to leave there kids in the apartment and check on them every half hour. People may not like that but it's not illegal. If they owners had told them there had been 2 incidents of intrusion in the last month they would not have done this.

Yes it is.

And if it was Betty the single mum from the scheme that done the same thing she would have been charged with neglect.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yes it is.

And if it was Betty the single mum from the scheme that done the same thing she would have been charged with neglect.

Conjecture. As James pointed out

There has been unprecedented hste for Kate for being middle class thin attractive and not hysterical and mawkish

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

I don't think it's fair comparing the Bulger case to this. As terrible as it was Denise knows what happened to her son. Not knowing must be 10x worst. And thinking that your neglect had a part to play in this must kill inside.

[Josy]

Conjecture. As James pointed out

There has been unprecedented hste for Kate for being middle class thin attractive and not hysterical and mawkish

I've seen plenty of well thought out explained opinions on why people aren't so keen on Kate McCann, none of it relating to her looks, weight or class.

No reply to the fact that is indeed illegal to leave children of that age unsupervised then?

[lime]

They are the worst and I am sicking of hearing from them, I am sick of seeing their detestable faces claiming they have a feeling that they might know that she's probably still maybe where they definitely last saw her but perhaps was always there but never left but might not be there at all. No. Stop it. I'm convinced they know more than they've let on and I'm convinced that they should be in jail for the massive amount of resources they have wasted through their lack of cooperation for THEIR MISSING CHILD. It makes me so angry and if by some miracle they find Madeleine McCann alive and well, I hope they never get her back. They make me so angry.


I hate to admit it but I have to agree ...it's just a gut feeling ..I think they know what happend to this poor child.I also belive in innocent untill proven guilty...we could have perhaps judged better if we had of heard what thy had to say in court...how they were never brought to court over their neglcet is frustating

[Marsh.]

Exactly. And what exactly was the purpose of the open Patio door? It was only an extra danger to the kids, besides the fact that anyone could just walk straight in, Maddie could walk straight out, fall in the pool, get run over by a car, fall and injury herself etc etc What if there was a fire in the apartment?

Yeah, I don't see how anyone can justify their decision.

[Niamh.]

I don't think it's fair comparing the Bulger case to this. As terrible as it was Denise knows what happened to her son. Not knowing must be 10x worst. And thinking that your neglect had a part to play in this must kill inside.

They've never really even acknowledged though that they were neglectful, not that I've seen or read anyway but maybe I'm wrong on that?

[Cherie]

They didn't tho. They were in an apartment complex.

I don't know why that would make a difference, the physical risks far outweigh the risk of abduction, accidents in the home are quite common

[rubymoo]

I still don't understand why they didn't use the free childrens club that was available until 11pm or the babysitting service available til 1pm, i have trouble leaving my teenagers home alone, i still give them a run down of the rules before i leave them, like don't run down the stairs, eat your food properly and sensibly, don't touch the cooker......they're 15 this year......

[Cherie]

I still don't understand why they didn't use the free childrens club that was available until 11pm or the babysitting service available til 1pm, i have trouble leaving my teenagers home alone, i still give them a run down of the rules before i leave them, like don't run down the stairs, eat your food properly and sensibly, don't touch the cooker......they're 15 this year......

:laugh:I'm the same, and I am by no means a perfect parent, there is in reality no such thing we all learn as we go along, but if Maddie telling them she woke up and was scared was not enough for them to have a rethink they really needed parenting classes

[Niamh.]

:laugh:I'm the same, and I am by no means a perfect parent, there is in reality no such thing we all learn as we go along, but if Maddie telling them she woke up and was scared was not enough for them to have a rethink they really needed parenting classes

Yep. That's a very hard thing to wrap my head around in all this.

[rubymoo]

:laugh:I'm the same, and I am by no means a perfect parent, there is in reality no such thing we all learn as we go along, but if Maddie telling them she woke up and was scared was not enough for them to have a rethink they really needed parenting classes

I'm also by no means a perfect parent, i couldn't leave my kids alone in a foreign country, when we went to America we stopped in the Disney complex and my girls were about 9 at the time, we never left them for a second, they had a bar by the pool and my husband brought drinks up to the room (as they were exhausted and asleep by 9pm after a busy day!), it wouldn't enter my head to leave them in a foreign country in a room they're unfamiliar with.

But i have left one of them home alone when they were younger, one of my girls were ill and i had to get the other to school, i had no way of getting her there other than to take her myself, so i left my girl who was ill and sleeping to nip to school to drop my other daughter off and pick her up, the school is across the road so i was gone less than 5 minutes, would others still class this as neglect? I'm just curious.

[user104658]

Conjecture. As James pointed out

There has been unprecedented hste for Kate for being middle class thin attractive and not hysterical and mawkish
It's not really "conjecture" at all, the press is full of "chav parents" being lambasted for relatively minor parenting errors. There is plenty of evidence to draw on. Frankly I call bull**** on the suggestion that they get MORE flak because they're middle class doctors. If that's true at all, it's simply because they've had the status and resources to draw more attention overall to themselves and their case, and thus more heat. If we're talking percentages, far more people willing to buy into the "not at fault at all" narrative because of who they are and where they're from.

Let's not abandon stating the bloody obvious because of a lack of statistics and hard evidence... It's a discussion forum, not a court room.

[rubymoo]

I just couldn't go off and have a meal and celebrate with friends knowing my kids were in an unlocked apartment alone, my kids would be beside me having a meal too, or if asleep then we'd have a takeaway.

[Cherie]

I'm also by no means a perfect parent, i couldn't leave my kids alone in a foreign country, when we went to America we stopped in the Disney complex and my girls were about 9 at the time, we never left them for a second, they had a bar by the pool and my husband brought drinks up to the room (as they were exhausted and asleep by 9pm after a busy day!), it wouldn't enter my head to leave them in a foreign country in a room they're unfamiliar with.

But i have left one of them home alone when they were younger, one of my girls were ill and i had to get the other to school, i had no way of getting her there other than to take her myself, so i left my girl who was ill and sleeping to nip to school to drop my other daughter off and pick her up, the school is across the road so i was gone less than 5 minutes, would others still class this as neglect? I'm just curious.

No I wouldn't that as neglect but as a necessity Ruby

[rubymoo]

No I wouldn't that as neglect but as a necessity Ruby

That's how i see it, i ran there and back!

[Niamh.]

That's how i see it, i ran there and back!

Yeah I agree with Cherie, you didn't have much choice and atleast you were aware that what you were doing wasn't ideal and got back as quick as you could

[Ammi]

I'm also by no means a perfect parent, i couldn't leave my kids alone in a foreign country, when we went to America we stopped in the Disney complex and my girls were about 9 at the time, we never left them for a second, they had a bar by the pool and my husband brought drinks up to the room (as they were exhausted and asleep by 9pm after a busy day!), it wouldn't enter my head to leave them in a foreign country in a room they're unfamiliar with.

But i have left one of them home alone when they were younger, one of my girls were ill and i had to get the other to school, i had no way of getting her there other than to take her myself, so i left my girl who was ill and sleeping to nip to school to drop my other daughter off and pick her up, the school is across the road so i was gone less than 5 minutes, would others still class this as neglect? I'm just curious.


..I think that Education Welfare would have considered it more of a neglect thing Ruby, if one of your daughters missed a day of school because of a sibling being ill and if she herself was perfectly fine... that sometimes can't be avoided either for different reasons, but you were able to get her there and you did...you were just using good parental judgement, I think..

[Crimson Dynamo]

I just couldn't go off and have a meal and celebrate with friends knowing my kids were in an unlocked apartment alone, my kids would be beside me having a meal too, or if asleep then we'd have a takeaway.

Yes but they did and they were happy they were safe, their kids their call. I am sure they could look at your parenthood and criticise too.

As I said all the couples deemed it safe and normal. They did not expect an abduction just as you would not expect one in the shops but it does happen

[Crimson Dynamo]

For the McCann's to be involved in the death both would have to be psychopathic and neither show any signs. They would also have to hoodwink our best defective s and I would wager they are a wee bit better than any member here at spotting Crim's.

Look for the simple answer. She was abducted and disposed of.

[Niamh.]

Yes but they did and they were happy they were safe, their kids their call. I am sure they could look at your parenthood and criticise too.

As I said all the couples deemed it safe and normal. They did not expect an abduction just as you would not expect one in the shops but it does happen

They may not have expected an abduction but they surely, as parents and as Doctors too, should have known how likely it could be that one of those extremely young children could have had some sort of accident? Or that maddie (who had already told them that she atleast one time when they weren't there had woken up and cried and looked for them), could quite possibly have woken up again and wandered out the unlocked door and had some sort of accident

[Niamh.]

For the McCann's to be involved in the death both would have to be psychopathic and neither show any signs. They would also have to hoodwink our best defective s and I would wager they are a wee bit better than any member here at spotting Crim's.

Look for the simple answer. She was abducted and disposed of.

Don't they say that usually in crimes involving children it's usually someone close to them or more specifically a relative?

[bots]

From my own experience on an event like a holiday, the family always do things together. This goes for my friends circles too, holidays and adults only, really doesn't happen. If a restaurant objects to children, then you go to one that accepts them, there are plenty around. There really isn't any valid excuse for leaving kids behind

[Marsh.]

Yeah.

People I know tend to leave the kids with grandparents or other relatives when they want an adult only holiday.

[T*]

Imagine if a toddler woke up in the middle of the night scared and wondering where the hell their parents are
It'd be terrifying
No matter what, the McCanns were selfish and neglectful and should've had common sense

[rubymoo]

Yes but they did and they were happy they were safe, their kids their call. I am sure they could look at your parenthood and criticise too.

As I said all the couples deemed it safe and normal. They did not expect an abduction just as you would not expect one in the shops but it does happen

I think the only thing i'm guilty of as a parent is over worrying and over mothering, i've never said i were the best parent and they may criticise my style of parenting but i think it were madness for them to leave their kids all of them under 4 years old, in an unlocked apartment out of eyeshot, could you honestly leave your kids in the same situation, did you ever think your kids were/are 100% safe? I know i worry about my kids every minute they aren't with me, they could have used the child-club/babysitting facilities and they chose not too, and yes it was their call and what a call/risk to take for now it has life long repercussions for them for the rest of their lives, i question their common sense if they think/thought it's safe and normal to leave such little ones alone in a foreign country alone in an unsecured apartment to have a meal and drinks with friends, we all make mistakes as parents, but wow, what a mistake to make.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Don't they say that usually in crimes involving children it's usually someone close to them or more specifically a relative?

No that is murder

[Niamh.]

No that is murder

Murder, child abuse, alteast one, if not both of those things has happened to Maddie McCann

[Crimson Dynamo]

I think the only thing i'm guilty of as a parent is over worrying and over mothering, i've never said i were the best parent and they may criticise my style of parenting but i think it were madness for them to leave their kids all of them under 4 years old, in an unlocked apartment out of eyeshot, could you honestly leave your kids in the same situation, did you ever think your kids were/are 100% safe? I know i worry about my kids every minute they aren't with me, they could have used the child-club/babysitting facilities and they chose not too, and yes it was their call and what a call/risk to take for now it has life long repercussions for them for the rest of their lives, i question their common sense if they think/thought it's safe and normal to leave such little ones alone in a foreign country alone in an unsecured apartment to have a meal and drinks with friends, we all make mistakes as parents, but wow, what a mistake to make.

No. They were incredibly unlucky that a paedophile tatgetted them. Incredible bad luck.

[Vicky.]

For the McCann's to be involved in the death both would have to be psychopathic and neither show any signs. They would also have to hoodwink our best defective s and I would wager they are a wee bit better than any member here at spotting Crim's.

Look for the simple answer. She was abducted and disposed of.

So why, despite the massive amounts of time and money dedicated to the case, has there still not been any evidence of an intruder, or an abduction?

The ONLY reason the abducter story even exists is because of Kates claims that the curtain/window was open, which she even changed her mind about later for gods sake :joker:

Who do you mean by 'best detectives' btw? Given it was our police forces who sent in the 'unreliable dogs' who instead of finding blood and the smell of death, were mistaken as it was the smell of 'week old nappies and seabass' they detected?

[Niamh.]

No. They were incredibly unlucky that a paedophile tatgetted them. Incredible bad luck.

What evidence do you have that a paedophile was involved in any of this?

[T*]

No. They were incredibly unlucky that a paedophile tatgetted them. Incredible bad luck.


They were incredibly reckless and stupid also

[lostalex]

this is like the Ramsey case in the USA, the way the parents were blamed. i don't think we will ever know.

http://img2-3.timeinc.net/people/i/2015/news/151116/jon-benet-a-435.jpg

[Vicky.]

this is like the Ramsey case in the USA, the way the parents were blamed. i don't think we will ever know.

Except in the ramsay case, it really is pretty much certain that a family member killed that poor girl. There is a (small) element of doubt in this case.

Edited...slightly offtopic but my theory on JonBennet is...Burke did it :p And John covered it up.

[lostalex]

Except in the ramsay case, it really is pretty much certain that a family member killed that poor girl. There is a (small) element of doubt in this case.

i really don't know, i didn't follow either case too closely. Just know that both are cases where the parents are the main suspects with little to no evidence.

Losing your child, is one of the worst things any parent can experience, but then having to worry about protecting yourself while suffering the loss of your child. it would make it a million times more painful and complicated, if they are innocent.

[Marsh.]

No that is murder

And abuse, sexual or otherwise as far as I know.

[Vicky.]

i really don't know, i didn't follow either case too closely. Just know that both are cases where the parents are the main suspects with little to no evidence.

Nah there was MUCH more evidence against the Ramseys than the McCanns. Its an interesting, though sickening story, thats for sure :S

[Cherie]

No. They were incredibly unlucky that a paedophile tatgetted them. Incredible bad luck.

Families of children snatched from the street like Mille Dowler can claim bad luck, this was a preventable abduction

[Marsh.]

No. They were incredibly unlucky that a paedophile tatgetted them. Incredible bad luck.

You know this how?

[Vicky.]

Families of children snatched from the street like Mille Dowler can claim bad luck, this was a preventable abduction

I agree as far as this :p

[rubymoo]

No. They were incredibly unlucky that a paedophile tatgetted them. Incredible bad luck.

I'm sorry LT but i think they were incredibly negligent and put their needs before their childrens.

I know stories like the Ben Needham case are etched into my soul as a warning of what can happen if you aren't watchful and mindful over your children, why on earth would they think their unguarded children were safe?

[Crimson Dynamo]

I'm sorry LT but i think they were incredibly negligent and put their needs before their childrens.

I know stories like the Ben Needham case are etched into my soul as a warning of what can happen if you aren't watchful and mindful over your children, why on earth would they think their unguarded children were safe?

All parents think their kids are safe prior to an abduction

[Crimson Dynamo]

You know this how?

It's the conclusion of Scotland yard after a monumental forensic police operation

[Niamh.]

All parents think their kids are safe prior to an abduction

Most parents wouldn't leave their kids wide open for an abduction like they did though(if that's what you believe occurred)

[Niamh.]

It's the conclusion of Scotland yard after a monumental forensic police operation

The one with Gerry McCann efit image as prime suspect?

[Vicky.]

The one with Gerry McCann efit image as prime suspect?

:hehe:

The prime suspect that the McCanns themselves buried for years too...in order to focus on the person Tanner saw who Redwood decided was an innocent father. Oh dear

[Crimson Dynamo]

Most parents wouldn't leave their kids wide open for an abduction like they did though(if that's what you believe occurred)
A child can be snatched in seconds

They were unlucky

[Crimson Dynamo]

The one with Gerry McCann efit image as prime suspect?

Sorry but the McCann's were never serious suspects

Only online via keyboard detectives

[Niamh.]

A child can be snatched in seconds

They were unlucky

Yes they can and if that happens, like say in the Bulger case, then that is unlucky. Having your child snatched (again if you believe that's what happened) from your unlocked apartment where your kids are completely alone is just pure stupidity

[Niamh.]

Sorry but the McCann's were never serious suspects

Only online via keyboard detectives

And by the Portuguese Police

[Vicky.]

Sorry but the McCann's were never serious suspects

Only online via keyboard detectives

By the Portuguese police also, and contrary to popular belief they weren't actually 'cleared'.

One has to ask though, if our police never saw them as suspects, why? Given the first suspects in the disappearance of a child is always the last to see them. Why is this ONE case different? Yes they could be ruled out, but to never suspect the last to see the child alive, is bad police work surely?

[rubymoo]

All parents think their kids are safe prior to an abduction

This i can't argue with^^^^

But what made the McCanns think their kids were safe, because in my mind as a parent i'd be thinking that one of them could be sick and choke on their vomit, Maddie could fall out of bed and hit her head then be crying for a mum and dad that aren't there (as she's cried a previous night), to know your child is crying for you and you aren't there is a heartbreaking thought, Maddie could wander into a nearby room and injure herself in that room, there are so many things that can happen to really small ones, so what made them think they were safe, maybe the medication they gave them made them have a certain amount of safety knowing that the likelihood of the kids waking up were minimal, maybe they'd done this before on a previous holiday and it gave them false confidence, what i do know is that the regular parent would not leave children so small unguarded in a foreign country in an unsecured apartment whilst out having fun with friends.

[Vicky.]

This i can't argue with^^^^

But what made the McCanns think their kids were safe, because in my mind as a parent i'd be thinking that one of them could be sick and choke on their vomit, Maddie could fall out of bed and hit her head then be crying for a mum and dad that aren't there (as she's cried a previous night), to know your child is crying for you and you aren't there is a heartbreaking thought, Maddie could wander into a nearby room and injure herself in that room, there are so many things that can happen to really small ones, so what made them think they were safe, maybe the medication they gave them made them have a certain amount of safety knowing that the likelihood of the kids waking up were minimal, maybe they'd done this before on a previous holiday and it gave them false confidence, what i do know is that the regular parent would not leave children so small unguarded in a foreign country in an unsecured apartment whilst out having fun with friends.
To make this even worse..one of the kids WAS actually ill, with diarrhea and vomitting and was still left alone. Not a McCann child mind, one of the other neglectful doctors of the group who left their kids alone to get pissed. They knew the kid was ill and still did it.

Beggars belief really. But no doubt this is also normal, fine and done all of the time...unless thats reserved only for two of the disgusting group.

[Niamh.]

To make this even worse..one of the kids WAS actually ill, with diarrhea and vomitting and was still left alone. Not a McCann child mind, one of the other neglectful doctors of the group who left their kids alone to get pissed. They knew the kid was ill and still did it.

Beggars belief really. But no doubt this is also normal, fine and done all of the time...unless thats reserved only for two of the disgusting group.

And these people are Doctors too, just unbelievable really

[rubymoo]

To make this even worse..one of the kids WAS actually ill, with diarrhea and vomitting and was still left alone. Not a McCann child mind, one of the other neglectful doctors of the group who left their kids alone to get pissed. They knew the kid was ill and still did it.

Beggars belief really. But no doubt this is also normal, fine and done all of the time...unless thats reserved only for two of the disgusting group.

I didn't know that until this morning when i were watching a Youtube vid, it's heartbreaking to know these children were left alone, ALL the children.

[Vanessa]

They did go to check on the children, but i think it was not enough. They should have been there at the apartment or took the children with them at the restaurant. And kept the windows closed.