52% UK Muslims say Gays should be illegal

[arista]

This is survey by Trevor Phillips


Some Muslims will not mix
this is the problem
being debated now on LBC radio
http://www.lbc.co.uk/


There is a UK problem with some Muslims
thats what the survey has found

[Kizzy]

Ah LBC...
My cornflakes went soggy this morning

#shouldcorbynresignoverthis

[Jamie89]

How many people were surveyed? What was the survey question? Was it only Muslims that were surveyed?

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/06/19/article-2005536-05D9C8F3000005DC-458_233x423.jpg

Trevor Phillips

[user104658]

I work an an environment in which 90% of my interactions involve talking to white, native British, working class males over the age of 40. I can confidently tell you that most of them - whilst not being homophobic per se - find the idea of homosexuality "funny" or "icky" or "weird" or a combination of the three.

That's not to say that it isn't a bigger issue in Islamic communities, but let's not pretend that White British people are at the point of being A-OK with homosexuality :joker:.

I also know a couple of hardcore Christians who are perfectly accepting of gay people and would not shun them or discriminate against them for being gay - BUT - (and this is a big "but") - if you really push them on the issue, the attitude is more along the lines of "They are sinners, what they are doing is a sin and therefore wrong, if they want to be on the path to God they shouldn't be doing it, however being a sinner is their business."

So the answer is really "It's not OK, it is morally wrong, but that is between them and God so I won't openly judge" with the bulk of heavily religious people, rather than them truly thinking it's not an issue at all. It just so happens that Islamic communities tend towards the more "heavily religious" than vaguely quasi-Christian communities where only something like 10% of people who call themselves Christian actually attend church etc.


Also, taking religion out of it again entirely, a lot of the "unclean" perception comes from the association between homosexuality and HIV, an (incorrect) idea that it's "likely" that gay men will end up carriers that was pushed quite firmly by the media in the 80's and early 90's. That sort of thing is hard to shake.

[Crimson Dynamo]

i thought that would have been higher

[arista]

i thought that would have been higher

Its a Docu on Ch4HD this week


10PM Weds 60mins

"What British Muslims Think"

[Tom4784]

I'm guessing the results are biased if that website is any indication. I'd need more information on the survey to believe it.

LBC has a blatant agenda, they aren't to be trusted.

[arista]

I'm guessing the results are biased if that website is any indication. I'd need more information on the survey to believe it.

LBC has a blatant agenda, they aren't to be trusted.


being kept for Weds 10PM
Ch4HD

[Crimson Dynamo]

I'm guessing the results are biased if that website is any indication. I'd need more information on the survey to believe it.

LBC has a blatant agenda, they aren't to be trusted.

evidence?

[arista]

LBC took it from the papers.

[Kizzy]

LBC took it from the papers.

Hey guess what I googled it... and the only reference is this thread.

[Tom4784]

evidence?

Just look at the site, as long as you have eyes you can see which side of the political fence it favours with how it presents it's stories and how it chooses said stories in the first place.

I'd need more details on the survey in order to accept it. How many people did they ask? Did they ask a wide variety of Muslims or just the ones that would give them the data they needed for their anti-Muslim story?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Just look at the site, as long as you have eyes you can see which side of the political fence it favours with how it presents it's stories and how it chooses said stories in the first place.

Its just like all talk radio stations, a mild troll to get reaction=listeners=ads=revenue

[DemolitionRed]

Russians, gypsies and many Islamic people think Brits are dirty and the Brits think the Chinese have dirty habits but what's new.

The reason many Muslims think we are dirty is because we use toilet paper as a cleansing mechanism for the dirtiest part of our bodies and are often seen not to wash our hands.

[Kizzy]

Its just like all talk radio stations, a mild troll to get reaction=listeners=ads=revenue

Speaking of trolls Katie Hopkins joined LBC.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Speaking of trolls Katie Hopkins joined LBC.

ideal

[arista]

Speaking of trolls Katie Hopkins joined LBC.


Only AM on Sundays

[DemolitionRed]

Is lbc radio a mouthpiece for the tory's? http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1515277

LBC Right-wing-bias http://boards.dailymail.co.uk/news-board-moderated/10246207.htm

LBC has a clear bias to the right http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2014/apr/20/lbc-heartbreak-banter-political-hot-potatoes-honour-killing-auschwitz

[Crimson Dynamo]

Is lbc radio a mouthpiece for the tory's? http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1515277

LBC Right-wing-bias http://boards.dailymail.co.uk/news-board-moderated/10246207.htm

LBC has a clear bias to the right http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2014/apr/20/lbc-heartbreak-banter-political-hot-potatoes-honour-killing-auschwitz

hardly a compelling rap sheet

[Redway]

Just look at the site, as long as you have eyes you can see which side of the political fence it favours with how it presents it's stories and how it chooses said stories in the first place.

I'd need more details on the survey in order to accept it. How many people did they ask? Did they ask a wide variety of Muslims or just the ones that would give them the data they needed for their anti-Muslim story?

Precisely. And either way 52% isn't exactly an enormous figure.

[GiRTh]

Ayone who employs Katie Hopkins immediately loses a bit of credibility. I'd like them to poll UK or US Christians with this question and I reckon the figures would be higher.

[*mazedsalv**]

I work an an environment in which 90% of my interactions involve talking to white, native British, working class males over the age of 40. I can confidently tell you that most of them - whilst not being homophobic per se - find the idea of homosexuality "funny" or "icky" or "weird" or a combination of the three.

That's not to say that it isn't a bigger issue in Islamic communities, but let's not pretend that White British people are at the point of being A-OK with homosexuality :joker:.

I also know a couple of hardcore Christians who are perfectly accepting of gay people and would not shun them or discriminate against them for being gay - BUT - (and this is a big "but") - if you really push them on the issue, the attitude is more along the lines of "They are sinners, what they are doing is a sin and therefore wrong, if they want to be on the path to God they shouldn't be doing it, however being a sinner is their business."

So the answer is really "It's not OK, it is morally wrong, but that is between them and God so I won't openly judge" with the bulk of heavily religious people, rather than them truly thinking it's not an issue at all. It just so happens that Islamic communities tend towards the more "heavily religious" than vaguely quasi-Christian communities where only something like 10% of people who call themselves Christian actually attend church etc.


Also, taking religion out of it again entirely, a lot of the "unclean" perception comes from the association between homosexuality and HIV, an (incorrect) idea that it's "likely" that gay men will end up carriers that was pushed quite firmly by the media in the 80's and early 90's. That sort of thing is hard to shake.

True, but you said you survey over 40s.

People have a very negative representation of teens and people in their 20s, but they are very open minded. I'd say that people aged 16-30 would (by quite a large majority) don't think it's a big deal.

When you hear of those things that go viral on the internet regarding racism, homophobia, discrimination, the people usually seem to be middle ages-older ages.

People in their teens and their 20s are so not bothered about all that. I'd say that younger people nowadays are by far the nicer and most open minded people out there.

I've worked in various jobs, in retail, at weddings, in admin etc... the people that are the most controversial/rude/annoying are always older people. In my history of either working or in social life (going out), I have never ever had a problem with someone under the age of 40.

ps. I'm 23.

What I'm basically saying is that I reckon in around 50 years time, racism, homophobia, sexism and other forms of discrimination will be tiny. By then, no one living would remember a time where women were inferior to men eg. couldn't vote etc....

It's quite interesting, people have a negative view of the world because of all the **** going on, but I really think that in general, people would be more understanding in certain things. However, there will always be sick people in the world, I'm just talking about people's views.

[MTVN]

The poll was carried out by ICM and actually found that 52% of British Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal, not just that its unclean

Around half of British Muslims believe homosexuality should be illegal.

That is the result of a study that polled 1,801 adult Muslims on issues including relationships, polygamy and law.

It found that 52 per cent of those quizzed disagreed that homosexuality should be legal in Britain.

The poll also discovered that 31 per cent believe it is acceptable for Muslim men to have more than one wife, and 23 per cent would support parts of Britain being governed by Sharia law rather than British law.

And while the poll of men and women found that 39 per cent believe wives should always obey their husbands, as many as 79 per cent condemned stoning those who have cheated on their partner.

The full findings from the ICM poll will feature in Channel 4 documentary What British Muslims Really Think, which airs on Wednesday.

Presented by former head of the Equality and Human Rights Commission Trevor Philips, the programme will investigate the differences between British Muslims and the rest of the country.

Philips said ‘the integration of Muslims will probably be the hardest task’ the country has ever faced.

Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2016/04/10/half-of-british-muslims-think-homosexuality-should-be-illegal-5807066/#ixzz45R3IquyO

This is concerning stuff and something that needs facing up to not just dismissed as bias

[arista]

Is lbc radio a mouthpiece for the tory's? http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1515277

LBC Right-wing-bias http://boards.dailymail.co.uk/news-board-moderated/10246207.htm

LBC has a clear bias to the right http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2014/apr/20/lbc-heartbreak-banter-political-hot-potatoes-honour-killing-auschwitz


Yes 2012 one link..


LBC's Ian Dale is great
even his site has a link for the Labour Party.


Of Course this thread is now about the one hour docu
on Ch4HD weds 10PM
by Trevor Phillips.

[Marsh.]

Rylan Clark-Neals fingernails support this theory.

[arista]

The poll was carried out by ICM and actually found that 52% of British Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal, not just that its unclean



This is concerning stuff and something that needs facing up to not just dismissed as bias



Yes I am going to Record
Ch4HD 10PM on Wednesday

[Redway]

The poll was carried out by ICM and actually found that 52% of British Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal, not just that its unclean



This is concerning stuff and something that needs facing up to not just dismissed as bias

That wouldn't just be indicative of Muslims, though. I'm sure a similar number of Christians would think the same.

Religion's notorious for homophobia in general and that's not something specific to Islam.

[MTVN]

That wouldn't just be indicative of Muslims, though. I'm sure a similar number of Christians would think the same.

Religion's notorious for homophobia in general and that's not something specific to Islam.

52% of Christians would think homosexuality should be illegal? I doubt that very much. I'd be amazed if it was higher than 10%

[Redway]

52% of Christians would think homosexuality should be illegal? I doubt that very much. I'd be amazed if it was higher than 10%

It depends on the branch of Christianity, obviously, but I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised to find the vast majority of some hardcore denominations questioning the legality of homosexuality.

I haven't read the thing properly yet but it's pretty even from what I can see. 52% might be a sizeable proportion but there's clearly just as many who don't have an issue with the legal status of it.

[arista]

52% of Muslims say Gays should be illegal.


Is the correct title , now

Will be on CH4HD 10PM Weds
"What British Muslims Really Think"

[DemolitionRed]

52% of the Muslims asked but how many hundred/thousand/million were asked?

[Crimson Dynamo]

I wonder how many muslim men are gay as compared to the UK average

probably higher

:suspect:

[MTVN]

52% of the Muslims asked but how many hundred/thousand/million were asked?

1,801

[arista]

I wonder how many muslim men are gay as compared to the UK average

probably higher

:suspect:


Yes but if the are Gay
they are no longer in the family etc.
Even harder for Gay Muslims

[Cherie]

The poll was carried out by ICM and actually found that 52% of British Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal, not just that its unclean



This is concerning stuff and something that needs facing up to not just dismissed as bias


.

If this thread was about Christians this would be upheld as fact

[Ninastar]

.

If this thread was about Christians this would be upheld as fact

So true. Tbh I'm totally not surprised it turned into a debate about Christians being worse.

[kirklancaster]

.

If this thread was about Christians this would be upheld as fact

:clap1::clap1::clap1: I am astonished how many Egyptians are on this forum when it comes to any truths about Muslims, because that's when they're all in DE NIAL.

This poll was carried out among ORDINARY Muslims - NOT extremists - yet we have responses claiming a similar result would be obtained if EXTREMIST Christians were polled. The two are not the same by a country mile.

[bots]

Well, the first question to ask is what % is it when asking random members of the public rather than a specific group, then there is something to compare it against

[Redway]

So true. Tbh I'm totally not surprised it turned into a debate about Christians being worse.

Yeah, it really hasn't if you're talking about me. All I did was point out that I wouldn't be surprised if some branches of Christianity thought the same. There's hardly pages' worth of Christianity vs. Islam.

I'm no fan of Islam by any stretch of the imagination but it's not crazy to suggest that those stats are there to bolster a biased agenda.

[kirklancaster]

The poll was carried out by ICM and actually found that 52% of British Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal, not just that its unclean



This is concerning stuff and something that needs facing up to not just dismissed as bias

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

[Kizzy]

52% of Christians would think homosexuality should be illegal? I doubt that very much. I'd be amazed if it was higher than 10%

Ask the Anglicans, ask the African Anglicans you might be surprised.

[Ninastar]

Yeah, it really hasn't if you're talking about me. All I did was point out that I wouldn't be surprised if some branches of Christianity thought the same. There's hardly pages' worth of Christianity vs. Islam.

I'm no fan of Islam by any stretch of the imagination but it's not crazy to suggest that those stats are there to bolster a biased agenda.

I was just talking about it in general

[MTVN]

The closest comparison amongst Christians I can find is this poll from 2011:


Six in ten respondents (61%) agree that homosexuals should have the same legal rights in all aspects of their lives as heterosexuals, and those who disapprove of sexual relations between two adults of the same sex (29%) are greatly outnumbered by those who do not (46%).

https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/2921/Religious-and-Social-Attitudes-of-UK-Christians-in-2011.aspx

So far from wanting homosexuality to be illegal, nearly two thirds of Christians think they should have the same rights in every aspect of their lives, and only 29% disapprove of same sex couples. Yes some Christian branches will be more conservative, but like Kirk says thats irrelevant given that this was a poll of Muslims as a whole not of one extreme branch so its not comparing like with like.

[Redway]

The closest comparison amongst Christians I can find is this poll from 2011:



So far from wanting homosexuality to be illegal, nearly two thirds of Christians think they should have the same rights in every aspect of their lives, and only 29% disapprove of same sex couples. Yes some Christian branches will be more conservative, but like Kirk says thats irrelevant given that this was a poll of Muslims as a whole not of one extreme branch so its not comparing like with like.

Fair dos. I won't argue with statistics but it's clear to me that whoever initiated that article isn't a huge fan of Muslims in general and those results only serve to bolster his bias. Even if they are accurate.

[Kizzy]

The closest comparison amongst Christians I can find is this poll from 2011:



So far from wanting homosexuality to be illegal, nearly two thirds of Christians think they should have the same rights in every aspect of their lives, and only 29% disapprove of same sex couples. Yes some Christian branches will be more conservative, but like Kirk says thats irrelevant given that this was a poll of Muslims as a whole not of one extreme branch so its not comparing like with like.

Isn't it ironic to rely on a study by the Richard Dawkins foundation to gather data on Christians? :laugh:

[bots]

here is an interesting graph plotting 1983 to 2010

http://www.brin.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Atts-homo-figure-1.png


http://www.brin.ac.uk/figures/attitudes-towards-gay-rights/

[the truth]

the self defeating liberals will bury their heads in the politically correct sand and blame everything on the daily mail. the truth is vast numbers of muslims do have some hardline views on homosexuality womens rights and human rights

[Firewire]

the self defeating liberals will bury their heads in the politically correct sand and blame everything on the daily mail. the truth is vast numbers of muslims do have some hardline views on homosexuality womens rights and human rights

this is true, but so do many other religions. look at Africa. many countries are predominately Christian and have extreme anti-gay laws. Look at Russia, that's not a Muslim country, but has extreme anti-gay laws and homophobia is rife. North Carolina is trying to pass an anti-gay law. That's not a Muslim state.

It's not a Muslim issue. It's an issue with many people, religious or not.

[user104658]

This poll was carried out among ORDINARY Muslims - NOT extremists - yet we have responses claiming a similar result would be obtained if EXTREMIST Christians were polled. The two are not the same by a country mile.

It just so happens that Islamic communities tend towards the more "heavily religious" than vaguely quasi-Christian communities where only something like 10% of people who call themselves Christian actually attend church etc.

"Ordinary" Muslims are more strictly religious than "Ordinary" Christians. This is the only reason that the poll results would differ.

[Redway]

this is true, but so do many other religions. look at Africa. many countries are predominately Christian and have extreme anti-gay laws. Look at Russia, that's not a Muslim country, but has extreme anti-gay laws and homophobia is rife. North Carolina is trying to pass an anti-gay law. That's not a Muslim state.

It's not a Muslim issue. It's an issue with many people, religious or not.

Exactly what I was trying to say, pretty much.

I don't think anyone's pulling out the PC card for pointing out that those statistics were probably done with an anti-Muslim agenda in mind. You can just tell by the way the bloke talks about them in a less than favourable light.

[Cherie]

It's annoying though because there seems to be a soft approach to religious Muslims, they are "allowed" to have their beliefs because they are strict in their religion, but at the same time white Christians are hauled over the coals if they have strict beliefs and belittled, that we live in England and this is happening is quite alarming, we should be treating everyone in the same way not chipping away at one section while allowing another section freedom

[Ninastar]

I think you've pretty much hit the nail on the head there, Cherie. I see more hatred for Christians not believing in gay marriage, than I do for Muslims throwing gays off roofs... (these are just examples)

That's not me saying one is worse than the other, I'm just saying that there is a lot more hate for Christians (mainly white ones...) in comparison with hatred for Muslims.

[the truth]

I think you've pretty much hit the nail on the head there, Cherie. I see more hatred for Christians not believing in gay marriage, than I do for Muslims throwing gays off roofs... (these are just examples)

That's not me saying one is worse than the other, I'm just saying that there is a lot more hate for Christians (mainly white ones...) in comparison with hatred for Muslims.

One is infinitely worse than the other> Christ was the greatest man to ever walk this earth, muslims believe in far harsher more radical things, they also do NOT believe in forgiveness. These faiths are almost incompatible. I balme the liberals 100% for the way we have thrown out our belief system and allowed the radical muslims to simply take over.

[Ammi]

....hmmm, I don't really hold that much store by polls/surveys anyway because they're very much geared up/manipulated etc with the people surveyed, as Salv has said...it would depend on many things, of which Muslim people were asked, the same as it would of any religion etc...and I don't personally understand how it could not be biased if it's a survey that only Muslim beliefs were included in and didn't incorporate mixed religions, as in what do people with definite religious beliefs in general think of homosexuality...or balanced up with practising Christians in another poll, so that at least the two could be compared like for like..I mean why do we have to look back to 2011, 5 years ago for the equivalent polling with Christians.. how could that not be biased if an 'up to date survey' is only being done in the Muslim community but we have to search to find anything to compare...and also, why is this aspect of it being singled out to be reported in the media/discussed on the radio or whatever before the programme has aired, when the programme is about a general 'What Do British Muslims Really Think', so I presume a broad view of many things from the Muslim community ...(or specifically the Muslim people taking part in the programme..)...but this seems very slanting already in a negative way...52% anyway is obviously around half, so if a survey/poll is to be believed to be representative then half of all Muslims in the UK are tolerant to homosexuality, would it have been that in 2011/the same because to me that shows a progression in general of any religion...


...going back to the OP, it's said there that 'Muslims won't mix or don't mix', so it's not really showing 'hate' toward homosexuality either, just more that beliefs are often slow with their mind-sets in progressing, but that's not that unusual either with any religion, is it..and how so we know that 'Christians mix', many may not, but aren't vocal about their views, they just don't mix..?......and Britain only just made gay marriage legal a few years ago...so views are changing/mind-sets are changing/laws are changing etc, it's all progression but it does all take a bit of time as well...(whatever the religion..)...because primarily, it's all individual views...anyways, this all does feel quite bias to me and very slanting...the timing of the whole airing of the programme and recent extreme terror attacks etc..(plus possible the in/out EU referendum coming up, if I was really cynical and those goddamn immigrants..)...

[Mystic Mock]

If the guy running the survey leans more towards the right wing side of politics, then you have got to wonder how true this is.

But if it is true and unbiased then yes I'm concerned that just over half of the Muslim population want homosexuality to be illegal.

TIBB would shut down within a day.

[Mystic Mock]

If the guy running the survey leans more towards the right wing side of politics, then you have got to wonder how true this is.

But if it is true and unbiased then yes I'm concerned that just over half of the Muslim population want homosexuality to be illegal.

TIBB would shut down within a day.

[Ammi]

If the guy running the survey leans more towards the right wing side of politics, then you have got to wonder how true this is.

But if it is true and unbiased then yes I'm concerned that just over half of the Muslim population want homosexuality to be illegal.

TIBB would shut down within a day.


..that's the thing as well though, polls are too easy to manipulate ...if for instance a poll was done of all TiBB members ever regarding homophobic remarks/infractions/bans etc for those remarks and just based on religion, leaving out non-faiths...then what would be the percentage then of a breakdown of Christians and Muslims, who had made those remarks...the percentages would always vary, depending on who is taking part in a poll...you don't have to be extreme in religious views to have completely different mind-sets on things....

[Mystic Mock]

..that's the thing as well though, polls are too easy to manipulate ...if for instance a poll was done of all TiBB members ever regarding homophobic remarks/infractions/bans etc for those remarks and just based on religion, leaving out non-faiths...then what would be the percentage then of a breakdown of Christians and Muslims, who had made those remarks...the percentages would always vary, depending on who is taking part in a poll...you don't have to be extreme in religious views to have completely different mind-sets on things....

Strong points Ammi, I agree.

Tbh I'm just amazed that the right wing parties don't like Muslims more considering they are very right wing, and they are easier to control as they know less of their rights, and follow their Religion more devoutly than any other Religion at this point.

Generalizing of course.

[Kizzy]

It may be a generalisation Mock but there's more than a grain of truth in that imo.

[Mystic Mock]

It may be a generalisation Mock but there's more than a grain of truth in that imo.

Thanks for understanding me Kizzy as I know that I can be a bit frantic in the way that I put my point across.:laugh:

[MTVN]

I don't know why everyone is so sceptical of the poll, it was carried out by ICM, one of the leading pollsters who enforce very rigorous checks and practices to try and make their polls as accurate and representative as possible, they don't have any agendas to push

[arista]

This Afternoon it was debated on Radio 5

what does that mean Dezzy?
I mean it was on LBC , but now BBC Radio 5

[arista]

If the guy running the survey leans more towards the right wing side of politics, then you have got to wonder how true this is.

But if it is true and unbiased then yes I'm concerned that just over half of the Muslim population want homosexuality to be illegal.



Of course its True
please watch it Weds 10PM Ch4HD
60mins Docu

[DemolitionRed]

The thing is, this is a "faith" thing. If you asked Mormons or Jehovah or certain types of Jewish faith the same question, they would give you the same answer as Muslims.

Some forms of Judaism accept homosexuality, others don’t.
Some forms of Christianity accept homosexuality, others don’t.
Hinduism embraces homosexuality and to some extent Sikhism does.
All major Islamic schools disapprove of homosexuality.

[DemolitionRed]

They also don't believe in Christmas but that doesn't mean some don't still practice it.

[the truth]

soooo bored of talking about homosexuality tbh theres infinitely more important maters to discuss

[letmein]

soooo bored of talking about homosexuality tbh theres infinitely more important maters to discuss

Then go discuss them.

[coffee]

Most middle aged people in general (no matter muslim, atheist, white or black) think there is something 'off' with being gay. You can see in their facial expressions how sick it makes them feel even if they don't actually give an opinion on it. It's just how they were brought up and it's their own laziness that stops them from actually educating themselves. Sadly they will live ignorant and die ignorant.

The thing with Islam is that they continue to teach that gay is not ok and that is why a lot of young people these days who are not down with homosexuality is Muslims. I feel sorry for Muslims who are gay and are ashamed of it. Really is nothing to be ashamed of. I just wish they had parents to talk to who would understand...

I just can never get my head around why there is so much DRAMA over who people LOVE! LOL, why don't people mind their own business thoughhhhhh

[Kizzy]

Middle ageism is now a thing?... :/

[Marsh.]

Most middle aged people in general (no matter muslim, atheist, white or black) think there is something 'off' with being gay. You can see in their facial expressions how sick it makes them feel even if they don't actually give an opinion on it. It's just how they were brought up and it's their own laziness that stops them from actually educating themselves. Sadly they will live ignorant and die ignorant.

Eh?

The thoughts of kissing, having sex with or being in a relationship with Elton John makes me feel sick.

Has nothing to do with my being perfectly happy for whoever wants to be with him to be with him.

Being sickened by some of the sexual preferences of other people is not the same thing as uneducated and homophobic.

[waterhog]

soooo bored of talking about homosexuality tbh theres infinitely more important maters to discuss

revie was on this morning and his show is on tomoz - looks like its going to be interesting.

[kirklancaster]

Most middle aged people in general (no matter muslim, atheist, white or black) think there is something 'off' with being gay. You can see in their facial expressions how sick it makes them feel even if they don't actually give an opinion on it. It's just how they were brought up and it's their own laziness that stops them from actually educating themselves. Sadly they will live ignorant and die ignorant.



I don't know about 'Middle-Aged', but if this is about the 'older generation' being at fault - then nothing could be further from the truth.

As with 'Ban The Bomb' and Racial Prejudice, it was the enlightened 'young things' of the 60' and 70's who marched and protested and petitioned to CHANGE the prevailing prejudices of the status quo.

Those same radical young things are the 60 to 70 year olds now.

[kirklancaster]

I don't know why everyone is so sceptical of the poll, it was carried out by ICM, one of the leading pollsters who enforce very rigorous checks and practices to try and make their polls as accurate and representative as possible, they don't have any agendas to push

:laugh: Yes - It is truly mystifying how often on here the 'messenger' is 'shot' because the message does not align with the recepient's ideology.

Perfectly impartial and honest polls are dismissed as 'rigged', perfectly factual newspaper articles are branded biased lies, and perfectly honest TV documentaries are rejected as propaganda - but only WHEN the conclusion or 'message' undermines the recepient's argument.

When the 'message' substantiates that argument, the very same sources are then quoted on here as Gospel.

[coffee]

Eh?

The thoughts of kissing, having sex with or being in a relationship with Elton John makes me feel sick.

Has nothing to do with my being perfectly happy for whoever wants to be with him to be with him.

Being sickened by some of the sexual preferences of other people is not the same thing as uneducated and homophobic.

I haven't read any of ur comments apart from this one I was replying to original post. Any middle aged person I know doesn't agree with homosexuality. Don't know your opinion on elton John so.... Lol

[lostalex]

This makes me want to vote for Trump.

"It's not surprising at all. We all know what they are like." - that's what i imagine most normal people would be thinking. and most people who have been defending muslims as just like everyone else i guess would be feeling pretty damn stupid right now.

Denying there is a problem of muslims being homophobic and sexist is just ridiculous at this point. but for some reason lots of people on the left think it's okay to be a bigot against gays as long as it's for "cultural" or "religious" reasons. FFS.

[DemolitionRed]

I'll tell you exactly why some people get irked by threads like this....It becomes offensive when constant negativities are applied to the same group of people whose lifestyle you don't agree with and it becomes even more offensive when you treat that same group unfavourably to another group who have the same characteristics. Stereotyping Muslims is common here and that gets debated (as it should) by people who see it as a very regular and deliberate discrimination against one group of people.

People here are not defending a particular group of people; they are defending allegations of discrimination against a particular group of people and they do that because the people who raise thread after thread about this stuff are usually trying, illegitimately to raise a hate mentality.

[Jamie89]

The interesting thing about this poll is that knowing the muslim religion is anti-gay, how come only 52% of those polled hold those views? It makes me wonder what the outcome would have been 5/10/20 years ago and if it's a sign that it's changing for the better. It would also be interesting to know if there's a difference between age groups in how they responded to get an idea again of how things might be changing.
That's the key thing for me anyway, whether or not we're seeing any kind of progression. It wasn't that long ago (relatively) that being gay was illegal and I can accept some muslims taking longer to catch up than the rest of us, as long as they are catching up.
In my own personal experience of this, I have a friend who is gay and muslim and I know how difficult it is for him. He's in a long term relationship, and his parents know that he's living with a man (although he hasn't told them he's gay he believes they know) and yet he is still considering that at some point he should marry a woman and leave his 'gay life' behind him for the sake of his family. So there's obviously a problem as people like him shouldn't feel like that in modern UK society and we shouldn't ignore that problem, but if the 48% are growing then the problem might not be as bad as we think?

[lostalex]

I'll tell you exactly why some people get irked by threads like this....It becomes offensive when constant negativities are applied to the same group of people whose lifestyle you don't agree with and it becomes even more offensive when you treat that same group unfavourably to another group who have the same characteristics. Stereotyping Muslims is common here and that gets debated (as it should) by people who see it as a very regular and deliberate discrimination against one group of people.

People here are not defending a particular group of people; they are defending allegations of discrimination against a particular group of people and they do that because the people who raise thread after thread about this stuff are usually trying, illegitimately to raise a hate mentality.

ummm, but it's about muslims being against gays.. so why are you more worried about muslims being talked bad about instead of worried about muslims saying that gay people should be put in jail for being gay?

the article is about how most muslim people think that gay people should be put in jail, but you are more offended by the fact that we are TALKING about the fact that muslims feel that way? are you serious?

ARE YOU SERIOUS?

[DemolitionRed]

The interesting thing about this poll is that knowing the muslim religion is anti-gay, how come only 52% of those polled hold those views? It makes me wonder what the outcome would have been 5/10/20 years ago and if it's a sign that it's changing for the better. It would also be interesting to know if there's a difference between age groups in how they responded to get an idea again of how things might be changing.
That's the key thing for me anyway, whether or not we're seeing any kind of progression. It wasn't that long ago (relatively) that being gay was illegal and I can accept some muslims taking longer to catch up than the rest of us, as long as they are catching up.
In my own personal experience of this, I have a friend who is gay and muslim and I know how difficult it is for him. He's in a long term relationship, and his parents know that he's living with a man (although he hasn't told them he's gay he believes they know) and yet he is still considering that at some point he should marry a woman and leave his 'gay life' behind him for the sake of his family. So there's obviously a problem as people like him shouldn't feel like that in modern UK society and we shouldn't ignore that problem, but if the 48% are growing then the problem might not be as bad as we think?

Keep in mind that a lot of Muslims don't practice their faith. Those who do, will be against homosexuality as will types of Jews and Christians.

[lostalex]

Keep in mind that a lot of Muslims don't practice their faith. Those who do, will be against homosexuality as will types of Jews and Christians.

umm, but they also studied jews and christians, and no, most jews and christians don't think that all gays should be put in jail... so wtf are you talking about?

[arista]

DR
I do hope you can Record or Watch tomorrow
Ch4HD Weds 10PM
"What British Muslims Really Think"


USA News has picked it up
as some views on this Docu Ch4HD
are not telling Police
if a fellow Muslim is going to do a Terrorist
UK Attack.

[DemolitionRed]

DR
I do hope you can Record or Watch tomorrow
Ch4HD Weds 10PM
"What British Muslims Really Think"


USA News has picked it up
as some views on this Docu Ch4HD
are not telling Police
if a fellow Muslim is going to do a Terrorist
UK Attack.

No thanks Arista, I've got better things to do than watch another yawn worthy divide, sedate and distract documentary.

[lostalex]

No thanks Arista, I've got better things to do than watch another yawn worthy divide, sedate and distract documentary.

If you can't be bothered to watch what we are talking about, then you also shouldn't be bothered to comment on it. that is simple logic, and it's hard to take you seriously in any other thread if you admit you can't be bothered with paying attention to the things we are talking about. seriously. think about what you just said in that comment. you are arguing with us over something you say you aren't even interested in. THEN WHY ARE YOU TALKING TO US???

I am definitely going to watch it Arista.

[the truth]

The liberals must one day look at the truth of their crazy policies...they demand open borders and unchecked mass immigration, then they also demand equal rights for everyone , when the majority of these muslim immigrants are totally opposed to equal rights for gay people , for women and maybe disabled too

[lostalex]

The liberals must one day look at the truth of their crazy policies...they demand open borders and unchecked mass immigration, then they also demand equal rights for everyone , when the majority of these muslim immigrants are totally opposed to equal rights for gay people , for women and maybe disabled too

that is not what liberals demand at all. not any liberal party i know of at least.

[DemolitionRed]

The liberals must one day look at the truth of their crazy policies...they demand open borders and unchecked mass immigration, then they also demand equal rights for everyone , when the majority of these muslim immigrants are totally opposed to equal rights for gay people , for women and maybe disabled too

I certainly don't advocate global open borders or unchecked mass immigration. I also don't believe we should have one rule for one and another rule for another. Personally I think its wrong that practising Muslims don't agree with homosexuality but then I also think the Russian government is wrong to demonize homosexuals and I think its wrong for Mississippi to put laws out against homosexuals and I think my grandparents are wrong to believe homosexuality is nothing more than sexual greed.

[the truth]

that is not what liberals demand at all. not any liberal party i know of at least.

Yes it 100% is. You are 100% wrong. That's exactly what liberal Europe and liberal UK had for over a decade under the labour parties. Now the chickens are coming home to roost. They simply do not have joined up policies.

[Tom4784]

I do have issues with the whole 'average Muslims are more religious than average Christians' point that was mentioned before. I think it depends on where you are raised more so than the religion in question. Muslims that are born and raised in the UK tend to be as moderate as UK Christians when it comes to their religion after a few generations.

Like Firewire said, the same rings true for Christians when you consider those ultra religious African countries. An African Christian immigrant may hold extreme views but their children and grandchildren aren't likely to think the same way since they'd be raised in a country that doesn't tend to emphasize religion or demonise sexuality.

[Marsh.]

I haven't read any of ur comments apart from this one I was replying to original post. Any middle aged person I know doesn't agree with homosexuality. Don't know your opinion on elton John so.... Lol

You don't need to have read any of my previous comments.

Any middle aged person you know has provided you with their opinion on homosexuality?

[kirklancaster]

EDITED

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed View Post
"I'll tell you exactly why some people get irked by threads like this....It becomes offensive when constant negativities are applied to the same group of people whose lifestyle you don't agree with"

What does this ACTUALLY mean?

Anyone who DOES NOT agree with something is hardly likely to apply constant positives to that thing in their posts on the subject are they?

"...and it becomes even more offensive when you treat that same group unfavourably to another group who have the same characteristics"

How are you able to state that other 'groups' who have not formed any part of the subjects polled, "have the same characteristics" as the Muslims who were polled?

"Stereotyping Muslims is common here and that gets debated (as it should) by people who see it as a very regular and deliberate discrimination against one group of people."

If the poll was carried out impartially with genuine Muslims being randomly polled, then any 'stereotyping' of Muslims as a result of the poll findings, is being perpetrated by those Muslims polled and ONLY those Muslims polled.

Would you have the truth concealed because it does not fit with your own particular viewpoint?

Or would you ban ANY polling of Muslims because the findings of such polls may - by the very volition of those Muslims so polled - show Muslims in a less-than-favourable light?

The TRUTH is the TRUTH is the TRUTH whether it offends certain parties or not.

I for one would not flinch if I was a gay man visiting the Vatican as a tourist and the Pope and his entourage suggested showing me the spectacular views from the top of St. Peter's Basilica, and the same were it the Anglican Bishop of London and his aides inviting me up to the top of St Paul's Cathedral. Ditto a plethora of other religions.

As a gay man however, I would NOT be seen within a thousand miles of any tall building in Palmyra in Syria, or al-Furat in Iraq, or any other location, in the company of a group of 'Muslims' - extremist or not.

No - this is NOT due to any 'Islamophobia' on my part - just a logical acceptance of the TRUTH.

[Vicky.]

A lot of religious people are very intolerant of homosexuality. 52% is a huge amount though. Doesn't really surprise me mind..

[the truth]

A lot of religious people are very intolerant of homosexuality. 52% is a huge amount though. Doesn't really surprise me mind..

No they are not, a lot of muslims are intolerant of homosexuality and womens rights. Christians are way way more tolerant and open minded.

[Ninastar]

No they are not, a lot of muslims are intolerant of homosexuality and womens rights. Christians are way way more tolerant and open minded.

A little OTT but I do think there is some truth to this. You still get Christians who are awful and Muslims who are open minded and brilliant, but I think there's a big difference within the religions and one of them is a little more hateful in general.

I still believe we should live and let live though. (unless people are being killed/bullied because of beliefs etc)

[VanessaFeltz.]

How can someone say "gays should be illegal" "being muslim/christian/atheist etc etc should be illegal" like you are not alone in this world, your independence ends where others start. They talk about society when they are defending their opinions but you are the one damaging society when you exclude people.

[the truth]

those who think there is little difference between Christian law and sharia law are living on another planet

[arista]

those who think there is little difference between Christian law and sharia law are living on another planet


Yes as this Ch4 Docu showed


On catch up now

[Crimson Dynamo]

as i have said before one must realise that islam is unreformed as a religion


christianity is and is reforming in front of us with women ministers, acceptance of homosexuality etc

yes its glacial at times but it is reforming, Islam isnt and as such is prone to far more extremism

[DemolitionRed]

as i have said before one must realise that islam is unreformed as a religion


christianity is and is reforming in front of us with women ministers, acceptance of homosexuality etc

yes its glacial at times but it is reforming, Islam isnt and as such is prone to far more extremism

So what do you think the solution is Leather Trumpet ?

[Mystic Mock]

So what do you think the solution is Leather Trumpet ?

My solution would be to leave them alone in their own countries so that their people don't resent us when they come here, or have a likely chance of resenting us when they come here.

[Crimson Dynamo]

So what do you think the solution is Leather Trumpet ?

there sadly is no solution to superstition, the need for power in humans and poor learning in some countries. I do think that we in this country should not encourage islamic worship, schools or such things.

Indeed get religion out of all schools (and politics) and only cover it in a few history lessons

I t would also help if our leaders, like cameron, stopped paying spurious lipservice to religion just to get a few votes

[kirklancaster]

My solution would be to leave them alone in their own countries so that their people don't resent us when they come here, or have a likely chance of resenting us when they come here.

That would not work unfortunately Mock.

The self-proclaimed undisputed aim of ALL Muslim extremists is to conquer the ENTIRE globe and install one great Caliphate.

To these insane bastards, even ordinary non-aggressive Muslims or the wrong 'type' of Muslims are targets and little better than non-Muslims or infidels - thus the slaying, raping, torture and abduction of other Muslims by these terrorists.

[arista]

Great Docu
last night
watch it on this link
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/what-british-muslims-really-think

[the truth]

as i have said before one must realise that islam is unreformed as a religion


christianity is and is reforming in front of us with women ministers, acceptance of homosexuality etc

yes its glacial at times but it is reforming, Islam isnt and as such is prone to far more extremism


Christianity is rightly shaving off some of its excess meat, but it was always a good set of rules and beliefs and principles overall fromt he start as Christ was a wonderful man and totally enlightened and revolutionary. You wont find many other people preaching about tolerance, peace, love, forgiveness, honour, respect, salvation, repentance and redemption thousands of years ago. Islam began centuries later and was light years behind in all these areas. In fact many muslims interpret Islam as offering no forgiveness within the quran. There are no infidels within Christ's teachings. This may be a more recent hardline interpretation I don't know but it seems to be widespread.

Christianity is way more progressive. But sometimes it is the secular people or atheists who need to be more progressive. issues like abortion will always be debated, to see millions of healthy babies killed before 24 weeks is unacceptable to many Christians still as it is to many millions of religious and non-religious people. The pro abortionists need to become more progressive themselves and realise millions of healthy children are a born many weeks before this termination limit.

In the end Europe and the Uk are nations massively built around Christian laws, values, beliefs and principles. The middle east is far more dominated by sharia law. After all these centuries the proof of the pudding is in the eating...Where would you rather live? Yes that's right 100% of you would rather live in the west.

[Mystic Mock]

That would not work unfortunately Mock.

The self-proclaimed undisputed aim of ALL Muslim extremists is to conquer the ENTIRE globe and install one great Caliphate.

To these insane bastards, even ordinary non-aggressive Muslims or the wrong 'type' of Muslims are targets and little better than non-Muslims or infidels - thus the slaying, raping, torture and abduction of other Muslims by these terrorists.

I get what you're saying Kirk, but the way to stop these people getting sympathisers and thus joining groups like Al Qaeda and ISIS is to not attack these people's countries, therefore these terrorist organisations wouldn't have as many people in them and would be easier to stop if need be.

The way we operate at the minute is just gonna cause trouble within our own countries which have a lot of Muslims in them.

[bots]

as i have said before one must realise that islam is unreformed as a religion


christianity is and is reforming in front of us with women ministers, acceptance of homosexuality etc

yes its glacial at times but it is reforming, Islam isnt and as such is prone to far more extremism

That is one of the basic differences. The Quran doesn't allow any changes to it, so the religion will remain static for as long as its practiced. Christianity doesn't have that type of limitation although some would like it if it did.

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/04/14/10/332BAA3D00000578-0-image-a-57_1460624439007.jpg

They want to practise a more radical form of Islam, taught by Wahhabi Imams, living under Sharia law, rejecting homosexuality, promoting the subservience of women, supporting jihad.

Multiculturalists are determined to distance Muslims from Islamic extremism, imagining it to be the acts of the alienated few.

But the reason we so seldom hear Imams and leaders in the Muslim Community speaking out against terrorists is that in truth, many are right behind them.

25% had sympathy for the Charlie Hebdo massacre in Paris. 20% have sympathy for the 7/7 suicide bombers. Over 100,000 Muslims in the UK have sympathy for terrorist acts. Many support a future attack on the very country which showed them tolerance, allowed them to practise their particular brand of hate, and gave them a home.
I have heard what Muslims really think and it is clear multiculturalism has never existed.

Through no fault of our inclusive culture, it is them and us. And British Muslims expect us to change our ways to fit in with them.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3539431/KATIE-HOPKINS-British-Muslims-Really-Think-know-s-terrifying.html#ixzz45oyYmqHY

[user104658]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/04/14/10/332BAA3D00000578-0-image-a-57_1460624439007.jpg

They want to practise a more radical form of Islam, taught by Wahhabi Imams, living under Sharia law, rejecting homosexuality, promoting the subservience of women, supporting jihad.

Multiculturalists are determined to distance Muslims from Islamic extremism, imagining it to be the acts of the alienated few.

But the reason we so seldom hear Imams and leaders in the Muslim Community speaking out against terrorists is that in truth, many are right behind them.

25% had sympathy for the Charlie Hebdo massacre in Paris. 20% have sympathy for the 7/7 suicide bombers. Over 100,000 Muslims in the UK have sympathy for terrorist acts. Many support a future attack on the very country which showed them tolerance, allowed them to practise their particular brand of hate, and gave them a home.
I have heard what Muslims really think and it is clear multiculturalism has never existed.

Through no fault of our inclusive culture, it is them and us. And British Muslims expect us to change our ways to fit in with them.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3539431/KATIE-HOPKINS-British-Muslims-Really-Think-know-s-terrifying.html#ixzz45oyYmqHY

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This news just in: Katie Hopkins doesn't like Muslims :omgno: :omgno: :omgno: