doctor doctor he really is a sick ****

[waterhog]

doctor doctor he really is a sick C- .UNT 26.04.16



the NHS is modernizing

a 24-7 proposal is calculating

everyone no's the conservative party are economizing

but is it right on people they are operating.

its perfect as it is running

of the world we are the envy

the conservative party we should be gunning

for giving us this NHS levy.

none of them wait in queue

its a phone call to the hospital quack

remember when your relatives turn blue

move out the way we have a paying fast track.

the NHS is facing a emergency

it is the first time in history

how about a all out conservative redundancy

is lady Hunt wishing she had a hysterectomy.

we had the expense scandal

but the system they are still draining

its a travesty doctors don't get the same handle

my heart ache is straining.

i am going on strike

no more village poetry to be blunt

will highgate residents like

the buck stops at that jeremy c.-unt.

[Kizzy]

I really hope today is not used against junior drs, one death and they'll spin it to make believe this strike was the cause :/

[joeysteele]

I am today going to support my Cousin for a few hours who is on strike and who is a Junior Doctor.
Jeremy Hunt is a total disgrace and so is this PM for allowing him to be too.

I hope people stick with the Junior Doctors as to support in the main,this contract should not be imposed,no way.

[the truth]

I am today going to support my Cousin for a few hours who is on strike and who is a Junior Doctor.
Jeremy Hunt is a total disgrace and so is this PM for allowing him to be too.

I hope people stick with the Junior Doctors as to support in the main,this contract should not be imposed,no way.


the doctors will have blood on their hands as will hunt

I am against this strike. Innocent people will suffer and possibly die. Both sides should be ashamed its come to this. This macho posturing will not move anything forward either. A huge part of the problem undiscussed is the 2004 contract that allos 90% of gp's to not work out of hours at all, evenings or weekends. Thus putting so much more pressure on hospital doctors.




Another issue in wales we seem very complacent and a little smug over this imo....the reality is, in wales our waiting times are behind England on almost all areas, in some cases a long way behind...Behind in diagnosis and in treatment and operations... from heart surgery, to cancer overall, head injuries, pneumonia, hernias. We are marginally quicker dealing with kidney transplants and we have free prescriptions, everything else we are behind. Hip operations average 3 times as long waiting as in England, the wait can be between 9 months and up to 2 years in some cases, Our ambulance waiting times are also behind.




http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-35364644




You can also choose a hospital in England online which is a brilliant way to make the system more flexible to the needs of the patients....why on earth don't we have that in wales? why on earth aren't we even talking about it? This system looks brilliant




http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/902.aspx?CategoryID=68&SubCategoryID=162







Wales under labour, has a very rigid out of date booking system. this is the same for ambulances. I recall one ambulance driver collected me to go to hospital one day. I told him Id rung to cancel. he came back the next week I told him again id cancelled I don't need any ambulance any more. he said it was easier for the ambulance driver to turn up at the addresses rather than try and cancel it as the cancellation process was so complex?

INSANE




I fear the people running nhs wales are complacent , my little dealings with the trust left me with zero confidence in those people in charge

[Kazanne]

Well I'm sorry , imo , a doctor or nurse takes on that role simply because they want to care and help sick people ,they are not destitute , lots of people work just as long and hard some more so without holding the country to ransom, lots of money is spent training them up and I agree they work hard , but really their offer isn't so bad when you consider all that's wasted in the NHS, so do they care about people or just want as much as they can get , let them go see how doctors cope in third world countries,then maybe they will see,their lot isn't so bad.

[Crimson Dynamo]

:nono:

Hog another x-rated thread from you

shocking

[lostalex]

it's truly disgusting that these people would hold people hostage in this industry. They are paid handsomely. They are truly out of touch and want to be treated like little princes and princesses. They need to lose their licenses. let them go practice their medicine in russia or ghana, there should be no place for these people to practice medicine in the UK.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Well I'm sorry , imo , a doctor or nurse takes on that role simply because they want to care and help sick people ,they are not destitute , lots of people work just as long and hard some more so without holding the country to ransom, lots of money is spent training them up and I agree they work hard , but really their offer isn't so bad when you consider all that's wasted in the NHS, so do they care about people or just want as much as they can get , let them go see how doctors cope in third world countries,then maybe they will see,their lot isn't so bad.

:clap1:

[Kazanne]

:clap1:

I expect to be lambasted and lashed in here LT,so thanks for that at least I am not alone :cheer2:

[smudgie]

If we want to go forward and have a full 7 day a week NHS service then compromise has to be sought.
This must be the tip of the iceberg, are we going to have doctors surgeries and dentist open on a weekend as well?
All health workers wages should be worked out on the same scale as the fire service and police service. Any increments/enhancements they are entitled to for overtime and weekend work should be on a similar scale.

It would be interesting to have the full report of what is actually on offer to read through as against all this baloney about how it is the ruination of the NHS when it really appears to boil down to a pay claim for weekend hours.
The union has a lot to answer for, it's nice to see plenty of junior doctors crossing the picket lines and carrying on as normal this morning.

[the truth]

some of these junior doctors are scum. get out of europe and recruit more indian doctors and asian nurses

[Kazanne]

If we want to go forward and have a full 7 day a week NHS service then compromise has to be sought.
This must be the tip of the iceberg, are we going to have doctors surgeries and dentist open on a weekend as well?
All health workers wages should be worked out on the same scale as the fire service and police service. Any increments/enhancements they are entitled to for overtime and weekend work should be on a similar scale.

It would be interesting to have the full report of what is actually on offer to read through as against all this baloney about how it is the ruination of the NHS when it really appears to boil down to a pay claim for weekend hours.
The union has a lot to answer for, it's nice to see plenty of junior doctors crossing the picket lines and carrying on as normal this morning.

:clap1:

[Crimson Dynamo]

I expect to be lambasted and lashed in here LT,so thanks for that at least I am not alone :cheer2:

Kaz you know I always have your back


Its how i get the front that i am working on :hehe:

[Kazanne]

Kaz you know I always have your back


Its how i get the front that i am working on :hehe:

:blush: Oh LT,the front is much like the back:laugh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

:blush: Oh LT,the front is much like the back:laugh:


pics to pm please

:fan:

[Kazanne]

pics to pm please

:fan:

:laugh:now we've taken the thread off topic again.lol

[Crimson Dynamo]

:laugh:now we've taken the thread off topic again.lol

woops

:fist:

Bloody work-shy doctors

[Kazanne]

woops

:fist:

Bloody work-shy doctors

Yes,spare a thought for the people who do manual ,heavy,outdoor work to name a few ,I wonder how their wages compare?

[waterhog]

:nono:

Hog another x-rated thread from you

shocking

every now and then I can be a bad man :joker: but seriously can you think of a better word that rhymes with HUNT that sums up what he is doing.

I rest my case LT.:cheer2:

[joeysteele]

Well I'm sorry , imo , a doctor or nurse takes on that role simply because they want to care and help sick people ,they are not destitute , lots of people work just as long and hard some more so without holding the country to ransom, lots of money is spent training them up and I agree they work hard , but really their offer isn't so bad when you consider all that's wasted in the NHS, so do they care about people or just want as much as they can get , let them go see how doctors cope in third world countries,then maybe they will see,their lot isn't so bad.

Just a thought an old lady said to me while I was standing with my Cousin today out in that freezing cold but in my view right action by him and them..

She said, if there was someone who ran a fleet of taxis and forced their staff to drive cars that were not roadworthy and therefore dangerous,wouldn't the drivers be right to refuse to drive them.
So why when the Junior Doctors and even the Consultants feel this contract is dangerous for both staff and patients should they be forced to work it.


Why does it need to be imposed against the junior Doctors will, there was a suggestion from the main opposition parties put forward,yet this Health secretary dismisses all.

My Cousin for instance cares passionately about his profession, and his Patients.
Consultants were manning the emergency areas today anyway,
The Junior Doctors believe in the long run, this contract will put at risk may Patients and in fact tire them more too.

This is chaos of this govts making and if this contract is imposed, my Cousin is quitting the NHS,,(I actually said I hope he does because if this is imposed then the UK will deserve all it will lose as to lost Doctors,as it seems from listening to other Doctors today many more will then follow doing that too and leave for other Countries or even other professions.

Imposing this contract and not taking the Junior Doctors along with reforms but instead dictating to them, will very likely lose so many Doctors, that Hunt and this govt will be stretched to provide a 4 day week care let alone 7 days a week.

The govt is a disgrace on this issue, I never believed this govt would have the NHS best interests at heart.
Just as was the case with my own Cousin,all the Doctors I stood with today were there with a great sadness that their expertise was being undervalued, unappreciated and their concerns dismissed by one very ignorant man,Jeremy Hunt.

I was really heartened today,both for myself and my Cousin, that of all the people who passed us and commented, and moreso those who stood to talk to us,that only 3 thought the Doctors were wrong.
I thank all powers that be for that.

Also as a footnote, my Cousin as was other Doctors on strike today, joining the picket lines at just after 8am after working all night.
he has tomorrow off but will be back on duty again on Wednesday night again to work all through the night,hardly workshy at all.

[the truth]

Just a thought an old lady said to me while I was standing with my Cousin today out in that freezing cold but in my view right action by him and them..

She said, if there was someone who ran a fleet of taxis and forced their staff to drive cars that were not roadworthy and therefore dangerous,wouldn't the drivers be right to refuse to drive them.
So why when the Junior Doctors and even the Consultants feel this contract is dangerous for both staff and patients should they be forced to work it.


Why does it need to be imposed against the junior Doctors will, there was a suggestion from the main opposition parties put forward,yet this Health secretary dismisses all.

My Cousin for instance cares passionately about his profession, and his Patients.
Consultants were manning the emergency areas today anyway,
The Junior Doctors believe in the long run, this contract will put at risk may Patients and in fact tire them more too.

This is chaos of this govts making and if this contract is imposed, my Cousin is quitting the NHS,,(I actually said I hope he does because if this is imposed then the UK will deserve all it will lose as to lost Doctors,as it seems from listening to other Doctors today many more will then follow doing that too and leave for other Countries or even other professions.

Imposing this contract and not taking the Junior Doctors along with reforms but instead dictating to them, will very likely lose so many Doctors, that Hunt and this govt will be stretched to provide a 4 day week care let alone 7 days a week.

The govt is a disgrace on this issue, I never believed this govt would have the NHS best interests at heart.
Just as was the case with my own Cousin,all the Doctors I stood with today were there with a great sadness that their expertise was being undervalued, unappreciated and their concerns dismissed by one very ignorant man,Jeremy Hunt.

I was really heartened today,both for myself and my Cousin, that of all the people who passed us and commented, and moreso those who stood to talk to us,that only 3 thought the Doctors were wrong.
I thank all powers that be for that.

Also as a footnote, my Cousin as was other Doctors on strike today, joining the picket lines at just after 8am after working all night.
he has tomorrow off but will be back on duty again on Wednesday night again to work all through the night,hardly workshy at all.

You are plain wrong

Labour are a disgrace. the nhs had world record levels of filth and mrsa , the tories have wiped that out
the labour nhs in wales is behind on everything, light years behind the tory nhs in England....hip operations take 2 years in wales, its 4 months maximum in England

I am against this strike. Innocent people will suffer and possibly die. Both sides should be ashamed its come to this. This macho posturing will not move anything forward either. A huge part of the problem undiscussed is the 2004 contract that allos 90% of gp's to not work out of hours at all, evenings or weekends. Thus putting so much more pressure on hospital doctors.

Another issue in wales we seem very complacent and a little smug over this imo....the reality is, in wales our waiting times are behind England on almost all areas, in some cases a long way behind...Behind in diagnosis and in treatment and operations... from heart surgery, to cancer overall, head injuries, pneumonia, hernias. We are marginally quicker dealing with kidney transplants and we have free prescriptions, everything else we are behind. Hip operations average 3 times as long waiting as in England, the wait can be between 9 months and up to 2 years in some cases, Our ambulance waiting times are also behind.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-35364644

You can also choose a hospital in England online which is a brilliant way to make the system more flexible to the needs of the patients....why on earth don't we have that in wales? why on earth aren't we even talking about it? This system looks brilliant

http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/902.aspx?CategoryID=68&SubCategoryID=162


We have a very rigid out of date booking system. this is the same for ambulances. I recall one ambulance driver collected me to go to hospital one day. I told him Id rung to cancel. he came back the next week I told him again id cancelled I don't need any ambulance any more. he said it was easier for the ambulance driver to turn up at the addresses rather than try and cancel it as the cancellation process was so complex?
INSANE

I fear the people running nhs wales are complacent , my little dealings with the trust left me with zero confidence in those people in charge

[joeysteele]

[QUOTE=the truth;8630155]You are plain wrong

Labour are a disgrace. the nhs had world record levels of filth and mrsa , the tories have wiped that out
the labour nhs in wales is behind on everything, light years behind the tory nhs in England....hip operations take 2 years in wales, its 4 months maximum in England

I am against this strike. Innocent people will suffer and possibly die. Both sides should be ashamed its come to this. This macho posturing will not move anything forward either. A huge part of the problem undiscussed is the 2004 contract that allos 90% of gp's to not work out of hours at all, evenings or weekends. Thus putting so much more pressure on hospital doctors.

Another issue in wales we seem very complacent and a little smug over this imo....the reality is, in wales our waiting times are behind England on almost all areas, in some cases a long way behind...Behind in diagnosis and in treatment and operations... from heart surgery, to cancer overall, head injuries, pneumonia, hernias. We are marginally quicker dealing with kidney transplants and we have free prescriptions, everything else we are behind. Hip operations average 3 times as long waiting as in England, the wait can be between 9 months and up to 2 years in some cases, Our ambulance waiting times are also behind.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-35364644

You can also choose a hospital in England online which is a brilliant way to make the system more flexible to the needs of the patients....why on earth don't we have that in wales? why on earth aren't we even talking about it? This system looks brilliant

http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/902.aspx?CategoryID=68&SubCategoryID=162


We have a very rigid out of date booking system. this is the same for ambulances. I recall one ambulance driver collected me to go to hospital one day. I told him Id rung to cancel. he came back the next week I told him again id cancelled I don't need any ambulance any more. he said it was easier for the ambulance driver to turn up at the addresses rather than try and cancel it as the cancellation process was so complex?
INSANE


You were not there with the junior Doctors as I was today and thankfully your view is not shared by the public in England overall.
You are the one that is wrong here in my view as to this contract as indeed with respect,you are as to some other issues on the NHS.

I appreciate actually that you have had bad experiences with the NHS however so see it from a different perspective to myself..

[the truth]

[QUOTE=the truth;8630155]You are plain wrong

Labour are a disgrace. the nhs had world record levels of filth and mrsa , the tories have wiped that out
the labour nhs in wales is behind on everything, light years behind the tory nhs in England....hip operations take 2 years in wales, its 4 months maximum in England

I am against this strike. Innocent people will suffer and possibly die. Both sides should be ashamed its come to this. This macho posturing will not move anything forward either. A huge part of the problem undiscussed is the 2004 contract that allos 90% of gp's to not work out of hours at all, evenings or weekends. Thus putting so much more pressure on hospital doctors.

Another issue in wales we seem very complacent and a little smug over this imo....the reality is, in wales our waiting times are behind England on almost all areas, in some cases a long way behind...Behind in diagnosis and in treatment and operations... from heart surgery, to cancer overall, head injuries, pneumonia, hernias. We are marginally quicker dealing with kidney transplants and we have free prescriptions, everything else we are behind. Hip operations average 3 times as long waiting as in England, the wait can be between 9 months and up to 2 years in some cases, Our ambulance waiting times are also behind.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-35364644

You can also choose a hospital in England online which is a brilliant way to make the system more flexible to the needs of the patients....why on earth don't we have that in wales? why on earth aren't we even talking about it? This system looks brilliant

http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/902.aspx?CategoryID=68&SubCategoryID=162


We have a very rigid out of date booking system. this is the same for ambulances. I recall one ambulance driver collected me to go to hospital one day. I told him Id rung to cancel. he came back the next week I told him again id cancelled I don't need any ambulance any more. he said it was easier for the ambulance driver to turn up at the addresses rather than try and cancel it as the cancellation process was so complex?
INSANE


You were not there with the junior Doctors as I was today and thankfully your view is not shared by the public in England overall.
You are the one that is wrong here in my view as to this contract as indeed with respect,you are as to some other issues on the NHS.

I appreciate actually that you have had bad experiences with the NHS however so see it from a different perspective to myself..

lol as usual youve ignored all of my points..I on the other hand accept there are massive faults on all sides here...but when you ignore all other points on all other sides, your own opinion becomes irrelevant

[Beso]

all those junior doctors out on the streets protesting should have taken the opportunity of a day in bed if they are so exhausted.

[the truth]

theyre maximum working hours are being reduced from 91 to 72 hours, theyre being more overworked on the old contract? their argument makes no sense

[joeysteele]

all those junior doctors out on the streets protesting should have taken the opportunity of a day in bed if they are so exhausted.

They are exhausted and if those who can only criticise them bothered to go and talk to any of them you would clearly see that close up.
They do not want to be doing this but they were out supporting their colleagues while their bosses, the Consultants who support them totally, were covering all emergency care needs.

A great number of those Doctors out there for part of today were also going into work tonight until 8am tomorrow morning too.

[joeysteele]

[QUOTE=joeysteele;8630159]

lol as usual youve ignored all of my points..I on the other hand accept there are massive faults on all sides here...but when you ignore all other points on all other sides, your own opinion becomes irrelevant

I didn't ignore your points, I stuck to the topic of this particular thread and wasn't going to take it off topic.

This thread is about the new govt contract for Junior Doctors and them striking against it which only applies to England.

This contract and strike has nothing at all to do with the NHS in Wales, there is no issue of this contract there..
So as to your long points as to the NHS in Wales,they are irrelevant in fact on this thread.

[the truth]

[QUOTE=the truth;8630164]

I didn't ignore your points, I stuck to the topic of this particular thread and wasn't going to take it off topic.

This thread is about the new govt contract for Junior Doctors and them striking against it which only applies to England.

This contract and strike has nothing at all to do with the NHS in Wales, there is no issue of this contract there..
So as to your long points as to the NHS in Wales,they are irrelevant in fact on this thread.

No they are 100% relevant. The nhs wales is run by labour and it is on the old contract. the weekend coverage is sub standard, you cannot get scanned on weekends. the waiting times are simply horrific. nhs england is light years ahead because the tories are running the nhs better. they also have a smarter system where you can book any hospital in england which is why the queues are so much shorter than wales who have an absurd system of queuing a patient just for 1 hospital. the fact LABOUR allowed 90% of gp's to opt out of all out of ours working is a massive part of this problem. that contract has to be overthrown

I have written all this you have already ignored it all, it is 100% relevant and the fact you ignore is frankly deeply disturbing

[the truth]

They are exhausted and if those who can only criticise them bothered to go and talk to any of them you would clearly see that close up.
They do not want to be doing this but they were out supporting their colleagues while their bosses, the Consultants who support them totally, were covering all emergency care needs.

A great number of those Doctors out there for part of today were also going into work tonight until 8am tomorrow morning too.

theyre exhausted because theyre on 91 hours in some cases but under the new contract it would be a maximum of 72 hours

[joeysteele]

theyre exhausted because theyre on 91 hours in some cases but under the new contract it would be a maximum of 72 hours

You have sadly misunderstood the contract and taken all Hunts words as to it, go and talk to the Junior Doctors if you pass them on strike,
They will gladly explain their true grievances as to it in full with you and detail it way far better than I can as a more confusing contract I doubt I will ever come across again, hopefully not anyway..

[joeysteele]

[QUOTE=joeysteele;8630185]

No they are 100% relevant. The nhs wales is run by labour and it is on the old contract. the weekend coverage is sub standard, you cannot get scanned on weekends. the waiting times are simply horrific. nhs england is light years ahead because the tories are running the nhs better. they also have a smarter system where you can book any hospital in england which is why the queues are so much shorter than wales who have an absurd system of queuing a patient just for 1 hospital. the fact LABOUR allowed 90% of gp's to opt out of all out of ours working is a massive part of this problem. that contract has to be overthrown

I have written all this you have already ignored it all, it is 100% relevant and the fact you ignore is frankly deeply disturbing

I did not ignore it, I ignored responding to it because Wales has no new contract and no Doctors striking.
At least I don't come back to you saying you are talking nonsense like you do to me.

Anyway I am off to bed now so find someone else,for crying out loud,to nitpick at and annoy please,you are impossible almost to debate reasonably with.

[Kizzy]

How is it possible to work less hrs over 7 days with the same staff and resources?

[the truth]

You have sadly misunderstood the contract and taken all Hunts words as to it, go and talk to the Junior Doctors if you pass them on strike,
They will gladly explain their true grievances as to it in full with you and detail it way far better than I can as a more confusing contract I doubt I will ever come across again, hopefully not anyway..


Youve ignored all my factually correct points. I know doctors and my father was a doctor. He always worked out of hours and felt the new doctors contract signed by labour was the worst moment in the history of the medical profession. yet labour fans ignored it, why? 90% of gp's not working any out of hours? its insane and its all labours fault yet you and so many others ignore this plain truth

The majority of junior doctors arguments are mostly hysterical and absurd. they are putting it all across very poorly. The fact is public sector workers want to stop working ome compulsory weekends ...why incidentally werent any doctors striking or marching when we saw world record levels of mrsa, world record levels of abuse and cover ups within the nhs and of course thousands dying of abuse and neglect and no scans possible over weekends? why didnt the doctors nor new labour march for the patients eh? I dont trust the tories of course not, nor hunt. hes got private health shares himself and clearly wants to see more of the nhs privatised....however some parts do actually work better when run by private firms such as the nhs england booking system....the main areas where hunt has to be questioned is why he doesnt seem to be staggering all staff rotas at the same time.

[Kizzy]

Youve ignored all my factually correct points. I know doctors and my father was a doctor. He always worked out of hours and felt the new doctors contract signed by labour was the worst moment in the history of the medical profession. yet labour fans ignored it, why? 90% of gp's not working any out of hours? its insane and its all labours fault yet you and so many others ignore this plain truth

The majority of junior doctors arguments are mostly hysterical and absurd. they are putting it all across very poorly. The fact is public sector workers want to stop working ome compulsory weekends ...why incidentally werent any doctors striking or marching when we saw world record levels of mrsa, world record levels of abuse and cover ups within the nhs and of course thousands dying of abuse and neglect and no scans possible over weekends? why didnt the doctors nor new labour march for the patients eh?

You maybe thinking of the private sector care homes here.

[the truth]

How is it possible to work less hrs over 7 days with the same staff and resources?

are you serious? because now only a small percentage of junior doctors actually currently work weekends under the new contract 100% will work some weekends

this contracts spreads the workload more evenly this is how rota systems work in every other sector in the world apart from the nhs

[the truth]

You maybe thinking of the private sector care homes here.


abuses happen there too...no i was referring to the thousands of innocent patients in mid staffs who died of thirst ...broke my heart, did it break yours?

[Kizzy]

are you serious? because now only a small percentage of junior doctors actually currently work weekends under the new contract 100% will work some weekends

this contracts spreads the workload more evenly this is how rota systems work in every other sector in the world apart from the nhs

So the line has changed from 'greedy drs want overtime for weekends' to 'hardly any drs work weekends'?

[Kizzy]

abuses happen there too...no i was referring to the thousands of innocent patients in mid staffs who died of thirst ...broke my heart, did it break yours?

What has the failings (down to trust managers) to do with junior drs?

[the truth]

So the line has changed from 'greedy drs want overtime for weekends' to 'hardly any drs work weekends'?

I never said the former or the latter, the fact is a majority of junior doctors do NOT work weekends and 90% of gps do NOT work weekends, I suggest you direct your anger at this anomaly the next time you or your loved ones do not get scanned or treated as thoughly on the weekends as the weekdays...the results can be catastrophic

[the truth]

What has the failings (down to trust managers) to do with junior drs?

down to trust managers? the nurses werent feeding them nor giving them water to survive? they died of thirst?

[Kizzy]

I never said the former or the latter, the fact is a majority of junior doctors do NOT work weekends and 90% of gps do NOT work weekends, I suggest you direct your anger at this anomaly the next time you or your loved ones do not get scanned or treated as thoughly on the weekends as the weekdays...the results can be catastrophic

If a department requires drs they are on, if it doesn't they aren't.

[Kizzy]

down to trust managers? the nurses werent feeding them nor giving them water to survive? they died of thirst?

Staffing is an issue, which is why trusts are forced to rely on expensive agency staff to make up numbers as there are not enough nurses recruited to manage effectively.

[the truth]

If a department requires drs they are on, if it doesn't they aren't.

that is 100% wrong. the majority refuse to work weekends so more people get sick and die

[the truth]

Staffing is an issue, which is why trusts are forced to rely on expensive agency staff to make up numbers as there are not enough nurses recruited to manage effectively.


trusts grew vastly under labour as did the management , burocrats and their respective wages

this bled the nhs

labour also signed a 2004 deal to let 90% of gps off the hook with all out of hours work

The labour party also enslaves us to the EU further which means 1) it was way harder to get nurses and doctors outside the eu and 2) the 3.7 milllion increase in 10 years in population put enormous strain on nhs resources...the labour fans ignore all this and fail to join up the dots, this is why they are a total failure.

labour created this entire disaster

[Beso]

They are exhausted and if those who can only criticise them bothered to go and talk to any of them you would clearly see that close up.
They do not want to be doing this but they were out supporting their colleagues while their bosses, the Consultants who support them totally, were covering all emergency care needs.

A great number of those Doctors out there for part of today were also going into work tonight until 8am tomorrow morning too.

mugs.

[Kizzy]

that is 100% wrong. the majority refuse to work weekends so more people get sick and die

That is !00% wrong, there is no evidence to support that theory.

[Kizzy]

trusts grew vastly under labour as did the management , burocrats and their respective wages

this bled the nhs

labour also signed a 2004 deal to let 90% of gps off the hook with all out of hours work

The labour party also enslaves us to the EU further which means 1) it was way harder to get nurses and doctors outside the eu and 2) the 3.7 milllion increase in 10 years in population put enormous strain on nhs resources...the labour fans ignore all this and fail to join up the dots, this is why they are a total failure.

labour created this entire disaster

The conservatives are finishing the NHS, by sending foreign born nurses back whilst driving jr drs abroad too, who will man the NHS then? Paving the way for privatisation as they continue to suggest it's a failing system, it is because it's on the same as Liverpool 'managed decline'.

[joeysteele]

That is !00% wrong, there is no evidence to support that theory.

You are spot on and sadly wasting your time too Kizzy as I was yesterday evening on here.

It seems those against this strike seems to know how to care for Patients,treat them and save their lives better than the Junior Doctors do,unbelievable.
This strike has the support,unusually,of even the Consultants who feel this is a very bad contract for their Junior Doctor staff.

Hence why they covered the emergency issues as to Hospitals yesterday and today.

Lets hope those who can only criticise and get at the Doctors never need them, if most of them are still there in Hospitals in the future, after this contract gets 'forced' on them all.

I am appalled at some of the views on here as to the Doctors striking
Thankfully yesterday standing with them myself outside a hospital, those against were a very small minority indeed and gave encouragement to the Junior Doctors in this just fight against this shocking and badly planned contract.

[Kazanne]

I found this quite a good read http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-34775980

[Kizzy]

As is this
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/27/jeremy-hunt-doesnt-understand-junior-doctors-book-dismantle-nhs?CMP=share_btn_tw

[the truth]

The conservatives are finishing the NHS, by sending foreign born nurses back whilst driving jlr drs abroad too, who will man the NHS then? Paving the way for privatisation as they continue to suggest it's a failing system, it is because it's on the same as Liverpool 'managed decline'.

lol again you are 100% wrong, THE EU limits how many nurses and doctors we are allowed to recruit outside the EU. This is a bigotted , racist EU policy. this cartel in brussells has destroyed our legal ability to recruit medical staff

[the truth]

You are spot on and sadly wasting your time too Kizzy as I was yesterday evening on here.

It seems those against this strike seems to know how to care for Patients,treat them and save their lives better than the Junior Doctors do,unbelievable.
This strike has the support,unusually,of even the Consultants who feel this is a very bad contract for their Junior Doctor staff.

Hence why they covered the emergency issues as to Hospitals yesterday and today.

Lets hope those who can only criticise and get at the Doctors never need them, if most of them are still there in Hospitals in the future, after this contract gets 'forced' on them all.

I am appalled at some of the views on here as to the Doctors striking
Thankfully yesterday standing with them myself outside a hospital, those against were a very small minority indeed and gave encouragement to the Junior Doctors in this just fight against this shocking and badly planned contract.
she is 100% wrong, the majority of junior doctors DO NOT WORK WEEKENDS AT ALL...

[AnnieK]

she is 100% wrong, the majority of junior doctors DO NOT WORK WEEKENDS AT ALL...

Every article I have read state that junior doctors already work weekends, in fact they make the bulk of staffing levels.

[the truth]

Every article I have read state that junior doctors already work weekends, in fact they make the bulk of staffing levels.

only a minority work weekends, the majority do not. 90% of gp's do not work weekend. that is the main problem but labour ignore that problem because that insane 2004 gp contract was the work of the disastrous labour government

[joeysteele]

she is 100% wrong, the majority of junior doctors DO NOT WORK WEEKENDS AT ALL...

No, you are totally wrong,Kizzy is right My Cousin for one has worked many weekends at times as did my other Cousin too before he quit the NHS here and moved to Australia.
They naturally will take turns to do so at present.
Then they would also have to, in this new contract with the same number of Junior Doctors,will have to increase numbers working at weekends at weekends and yet still at the same time do the same cover as to time and care during the week too.

Furthermore you know you are wrong since you and others stated Junior Doctors are really mad at losing the Saturday unsocial hours pay they currently get for working Saturdays.
So clearly they do work weekends when required to.

You are actually more likely not to see a Consultant at all at weekends,hence why just about all follow ups with Consultants are never done on weekends,only very rarely and very few at best.

Furthermore,I collected a lady from Hospital 3 weeks ago on a Saturday and was there 1 hour waiting with her while one of the Junior Doctors on duty did the discharge and instructed what medications she needed to come home with.

[the truth]

No, you are totally wrong,Kizzy is right My Cousin for one has worked many weekends at times as did my other Cousin too before he quit the NHS here and moved to Australia.
They naturally will take turns to do so at present.
Then they would also have to, in this new contract with the same number of Junior Doctors,will have to increase numbers working at weekends at weekends and yet still at the same time do the same cover as to time and care during the week too.

Furthermore you know you are wrong since you and others stated Junior Doctors are really mad at losing the Saturday unsocial hours pay they currently get for working Saturdays.
So clearly they do work weekends when required to.

You are actually more likely not to see a Consultant at all at weekends,hence why just about all follow ups with Consultants are never done on weekends,only very rarely and very few at best.

Furthermore,I collected a lady from Hospital 3 weeks ago on a Saturday and was there 1 hour waiting with her while one of the Junior Doctors on duty did the discharge and instructed what medications she needed to come home with.


You are wrong and most of that is irrelevant. the majority of junior doctors DO NOT WORK WEEKENDS. 90% OF GPS DO NOT WORK WEEKENDS. Ive repeated this to you umpteen times and you still cant understand these basic facts

[the truth]

THE BMA should be renamed as the doctors union as that is really all it is.

[joeysteele]

You are wrong and most of that is irrelevant. the majority of junior doctors DO NOT WORK WEEKENDS. 90% OF GPS DO NOT WORK WEEKENDS. Ive repeated this to you umpteen times and you still cant understand these basic facts

Oh for goodness sake grow up and treat people with respect,you list no facts
just bile against the NHS as you have for years now.

You are wrong with the fullest respect.
If they don't work weekends, and many do work weekends, why should they be bothered in the slightest if Saturday is just another day and not classed as unsocial time worked.

Your facts make not the slightest sense and I'm done even trying to talk to someone as rude and disrespectful as you.
What on earth have GPs to do with this, they are not striking or Junior Doctors working in hospitals and threatened with this contract being forced on them.

Furthermore, I don't take kindly to being shouted at, when you post in capitals that is what you are doing.
Talk to people in a more respectful manner,you are posting on a forum with rules on behaviour when doing so.

[the truth]

Oh for goodness sake grow up and treat people with respect,you list no facts
just bile against the NHS as you have for years now.

You are wrong with the fullest respect.
If they don't work weekends, and many do work weekends, why should they be bothered in the slightest if Saturday is just another day and not classed as unsocial time worked.

Your facts make not the slightest sense and I'm done even trying to talk to someone as rude and disrespectful as you.
What on earth have GPs to do with this, they are not striking or Junior Doctors working in hospitals and threatened with this contract being forced on them.

Furthermore, I don't take kindly to being shouted at, when you post in capitals that is what you are doing.
Talk to people in a more respectful manner,you are posting on a forum with rules on behaviour when doing so.

Everything Ive said is 100% accurate. Typical youd point to the odd capital letter as more important that discussing the fact 90% of gps do not work out of hours and that affects millions of people very badly and the fact that the majority of junior doctors do not work weekends. those are facts. deal with it.

[joeysteele]

Everything Ive said is 100% accurate. Typical youd point to the odd capital letter as more important that discussing the fact 90% of gps do not work out of hours and that affects millions of people very badly and the fact that the majority of junior doctors do not work weekends. those are facts. deal with it.

Wrong wrong wrong all through.
Also far from the odd capital letter there are around 38 in your short post earlier, that is hardly the odd capital letter.
That is shouting, disrespectful and I think against the rules too.

Again,GPs are 'not' the issue on this thread it is about Junior Doctors striking and the new contract.
Stop derailing near every every thread, why do you have to be so disruptive,what on earth is the matter with you for goodness sake.
Just don't respond to me again as I have had all I will take from you.

[the truth]

Wrong wrong wrong all through.
Also far from the odd capital letter there are around 38 in your short post earlier, that is hardly the odd capital letter.
That is shouting, disrespectful and I think against the rules too.

Again,GPs are 'not' the issue on this thread it is about Junior Doctors striking and the new contract.
Stop derailing near every every thread, why do you have to be so disruptive,what on earth is the matter with you for goodness sake.
Just don't respond to me again as I have had all I will take from you.

It is 100% relevant. How can you not even see the fact the gps do not work out of hours or weekends doesnt put more pressure on hospital doctors? deary me cant you see the bigger picture ot just a tiny part of it? I am here to fight for the truth and for whats best for the patients, labour allowing 90% of gps out of working any out of hours was a disgrace and has masisvely hurt patients and hospital staff.

I am 100% right on this and you are 100% wrong.

[joeysteele]

It is 100% relevant. How can you not even see the fact the gps do not work out of hours or weekends doesnt put more pressure on hospital doctors? deary me cant you see the bigger picture ot just a tiny part of it? I am here to fight for the truth and for whats best for the patients, labour allowing 90% of gps out of working any out of hours was a disgrace and has masisvely hurt patients and hospital staff.

I am 100% right on this and you are 100% wrong.



I disagree.

[the truth]

[/B]


I disagree.

Go on then prove it? You cant. I provide facts and figures and links and relevant and related quotes and articles, proving I am 100% right and you are 100% wrong, you provide nothing

I sincerely hope if God forbid an innocent patients dies because of these junior doctors refusing to turn up to work in accident and emergency that the junior doctors who refused to turn up is charged with manslaughter by the grieving familiy.

[joeysteele]

Go on then prove it? You cant. I provide facts and figures and links and relevant and related quotes and articles, proving I am 100% right and you are 100% wrong, you provide nothing

I sincerely hope if God forbid an innocent patients dies because of these junior doctors refusing to turn up to work in accident and emergency that the junior doctors who refused to turn up is charged with manslaughter by the grieving familiy.

The Hospitals and Patients using the hospitals today and yesterday have said all was going smoothly, good cover and all seen that went there.
Consultants are not idiots,they know a fair bit about Patient care, they have been fully covering the 9 hours each day the strike has been on for each of the last 2 days.

There was never any need for problems and the 2 days of only 9 hours striking each day are now over and all are back to work.
That's facts pure and simple.

[the truth]

The Hospitals and Patients using the hospitals today and yesterday have said all was going smoothly, good cover and all seen that went there.
Consultants are not idiots,they know a fair bit about Patient care, they have been fully covering the 9 hours each day the strike has been on for each of the last 2 days.

There was never any need for problems and the 2 days of only 9 hours striking each day are now over and all are back to work.
That's facts pure and simple.

No one called them idiots? another straw man statement. Id rather hear from the poor long suffering patients, it will be interesting the real truth that comes out in the next few weeks about sick people that junior doctors refused to treat. Lets hope none of them died because of this mass cruel immoral unjustifiable disgusting negligence

[joeysteele]

No one called them idiots? another straw man statement. Id rather hear from the poor long suffering patients, it will be interesting the real truth that comes out in the next few weeks about sick people that junior doctors refused to treat. Lets hope none of them died because of this mass cruel immoral unjustifiable disgusting negligence

No one said you did call them idiots,where did I say you did,more fantasy, I was the one who said they were not idiots.

The Junior Doctors have not refused to treat anyone, they handed over their duties to their bosses the Consultants, it would be the Consultants who refused to treat anyone if they had ever turned anyone away.

The Junior Doctors have not seen anyone to refuse to treat them, you again over sensationalising the issue really doesn't help really.
Anyone with any real emergency would have still been see these last 2 days by the Consultants.

No emergencies would have been turned away at all anyway, again not a problem, nor should there be with Consultants on hand all the time

[the truth]

No one said you did call them idiots,where did I say you did,more fantasy, I was the one who said they were not idiots.

The Junior Doctors have not refused to treat anyone, they handed over their duties to their bosses the Consultants, it would be the Consultants who refused to treat anyone if they had ever turned anyone away.

The Junior Doctors have not seen anyone to refuse to treat them, you again over sensationalising the issue really doesn't help really.
Anyone with any real emergency would have still been see these last 2 days by the Consultants.

No emergencies would have been turned away at all anyway, again not a problem, nor should there be with Consultants on hand all the time

didnt refuse ? lol they refused to work? its the same thing., if innocent people die because of this mas walk out by junior doctors and neglect of patients, how would you feel about that?

[Kizzy]

The cover is consultants so I'd say people were adequately taken care of.

[joeysteele]

didnt refuse ? lol they refused to work? its the same thing., if innocent people die because of this mas walk out by junior doctors and neglect of patients, how would you feel about that?

No one has died,the strike is over and no one has died in the strikes before this one too and no emergency has been neglected even, so what on earth are you rambling on about.

No one has died,you are arguing utter tripe and I'm sorry to even have to say that.

[the truth]

No one has died,the strike is over and no one has died in the strikes before this one too and no emergency has been neglected even, so what on earth are you rambling on about.

No one has died,you are arguing utter tripe and I'm sorry to even have to say that.


Youre getting pretty abusive and pretty dishonest we wont know exactly how many people have suffered or gotten worse or even died for a few days yet, we need to evaluate exactly how much damage this immoral strike has inflicted upon sick patients

[the truth]

patient groups have warned the accumulation of postponed treatments - nearly 40,000 operations have now been delayed during the whole dispute - is taking its toll and causing harm. Alongside routine treatments, there have been reports of cancer patients facing delays.

[joeysteele]

The cover is consultants so I'd say people were adequately taken care of.

They were indeed and all emergency situations have been dealt with as you say adequately.

Now the put off cases that could wait for over 2 days and more will be dealt with too,none that were in any way current emergencies,

Routine appointments get altered many times even when there are no strikes or disputes going on anyway.

[the truth]

40,000 cancelled operations what an absolute disgrace

[waterhog]

40,000 cancelled operations what an absolute disgrace

if the government keep dictating to the doctors - it wont be long before there are no appointments. so 40 000 cancelled is nothing compared to what we could loose if we don't make a stand.

show back bone - do you really think our doctors want to hurt us - they entered into a care profession to care .


I am truly sick of this debate now - have to switch off - ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh nurse - medication time - I want to go to bed.:nono:

[the truth]

if the government keep dictating to the doctors - it wont be long before there are no appointments. so 40 000 cancelled is nothing compared to what we could loose if we don't make a stand.

show back bone - do you really think our doctors want to hurt us - they entered into a care profession to care .


I am truly sick of this debate now - have to switch off - ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh nurse - medication time - I want to go to bed.:nono:

Its the wrong backbone. the labour party need to fight to overturn their own insane gp contract in 2004 that allowed 90% of gp's to NOT work at all out of hours. This is a massive part of the problem we now have. to fill that 90% is impossible , labour tried the absurd nhs hotline which was a failure and they pushed junior doctors to 91 hours a week maximum. the tories at least reduce that maximum to 72 hours. patients deserve a decent nhs over weekends and scans that can save lives. deaths increase by 10% on saturday and 15% more on sundays, thats a fact regardless how much people hate hunt. labour are as usuall missing the bigger picture, they are so blinded by tory hate and the politics of envy. they must fight to destroy that 2004 contract. ps 40,000 is a vast amount of operations and a hell of a lot of innocent peoples lives ruined by the immoral disgraceful antics of junior doctors who are ill advised and deeply immoral

[joeysteele]

if the government keep dictating to the doctors - it wont be long before there are no appointments. so 40 000 cancelled is nothing compared to what we could loose if we don't make a stand.

show back bone - do you really think our doctors want to hurt us - they entered into a care profession to care .


I am truly sick of this debate now - have to switch off - ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh nurse - medication time - I want to go to bed.:nono:

Absolutely waterhog.
If they really do end up forcing this contract on the Junior Doctors, they are firstly likely to have Consultants up in arms, and then a good number of the Doctors they will need leaving the NHS here completely.
As in fact that process has started now anyway.

[the truth]

if we stay in the eu that means the nhs cannot recruit doctors and nurses outside the eu and also means corporations will have easier access to take over and privatise the nhs
so your arguments on europe and nhs dont make sense. you fail to see they are directly connected. you must see the bigger picture

[DemolitionRed]

if the government keep dictating to the doctors - it wont be long before there are no appointments. so 40 000 cancelled is nothing compared to what we could loose if we don't make a stand.

show back bone - do you really think our doctors want to hurt us - they entered into a care profession to care .


I am truly sick of this debate now - have to switch off - ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh nurse - medication time - I want to go to bed.:nono:

If anyone is put at risk, it's not because of the doctors striking to protect their rights and everybody's safety, it's because of the twats who pushed them in a corner.

The doctors can't afford to lose this battle. If the government win against the doctors, no NHS employee is safe, not the nurses, the midwives, the radiologists, the cleaners, the receptionists, NOBODY. The NHS and the government can't be allowed to get away with it.

Well, that's how I see it.

[waterhog]

demred - you say that with such conviction.

[Beso]

The Hospitals and Patients using the hospitals today and yesterday have said all was going smoothly, good cover and all seen that went there.
Consultants are not idiots,they know a fair bit about Patient care, they have been fully covering the 9 hours each day the strike has been on for each of the last 2 days.

There was never any need for problems and the 2 days of only 9 hours striking each day are now over and all are back to work.
That's facts pure and simple.

it's all going smoothly with a threadbare cover system in place, yet these greedy lazy junior Drs claim the patients will suffer under the new contracts.:joker:

[joeysteele]

it's all going smoothly with a threadbare cover system in place, yet these greedy lazy junior Drs claim the patients will suffer under the new contracts.:joker:

It ran smoothly in a big part because of the fact the A&E area was quieter with far less people just turning up plus also a great number of non emergency follow up appointments and routine regular appointments with Consultants cancelled for the 2 days of strike periods.

If you really do believe that Doctors are lazy and greedy, you clearly with respect know not a thing about them.

[Beso]

It ran smoothly in a big part because of the fact the A&E area was quieter with far less people just turning up plus also a great number of non emergency follow up appointments and routine regular appointments with Consultants cancelled for the 2 days of strike periods.

If you really do believe that Doctors are lazy and greedy, you clearly with respect know not a thing about them.

can't say all are the same and are in it for the care and compassion cause that would be an assumption and a load of horlicks!



it's all about the money in this instance. drs can't get you out the surgery quick enough causing the wrong diagnosis due to tardy practice.

all these foreign drs, if it wasn't about the money would remain in their own countries to help out where they would be needed more.

[waterhog]

It ran smoothly in a big part because of the fact the A&E area was quieter with far less people just turning up plus also a great number of non emergency follow up appointments and routine regular appointments with Consultants cancelled for the 2 days of strike periods.

If you really do believe that Doctors are lazy and greedy, you clearly with respect know not a thing about them.




joeysteele - I love you - they are in the careing profession for one thing - to get us sickos better.

take my hat off to them and to you. ( a love of my life poem is brewing joeysteeel):laugh:

[DemolitionRed]

To suggest junior doctors are being greedy either means we lack full understanding of what our government is proposing or we think everyone should just tow the party line regardless of how heinous it is

The only reason this new contract is happening is because all these ‘Trusts’ are having a tough time paying their ‘now’ private owners. As the government moves further and further away from funding the health care system, we will see bigger staff shortages, reduced salaries and more and more professional burnout. Greed is the bogeyman Hunt is using to justify what the Conservative government are trying to do and whilst some people are buying it, the majority of us have woken up to the NHS system being demoralized, defunded and destroyed.

[waterhog]

To suggest junior doctors are being greedy either means we lack full understanding of what our government is proposing or we think everyone should just tow the party line regardless of how heinous it is

The only reason this new contract is happening is because all these ‘Trusts’ are having a tough time paying their ‘now’ private owners. As the government moves further and further away from funding the health care system, we will see bigger staff shortages, reduced salaries and more and more professional burnout. Greed is the bogeyman Hunt is using to justify what the Conservative government are trying to do and whilst some people are buying it, the majority of us have woken up to the NHS system being demoralized, defunded and destroyed.


our NHS is the envy of the world - proud to have it and so proud of everyone who contributes to it. you are all fantastic.

[Kizzy]

To suggest junior doctors are being greedy either means we lack full understanding of what our government is proposing or we think everyone should just tow the party line regardless of how heinous it is

The only reason this new contract is happening is because all these ‘Trusts’ are having a tough time paying their ‘now’ private owners. As the government moves further and further away from funding the health care system, we will see bigger staff shortages, reduced salaries and more and more professional burnout. Greed is the bogeyman Hunt is using to justify what the Conservative government are trying to do and whilst some people are buying it, the majority of us have woken up to the NHS system being demoralized, defunded and destroyed.

:clap1: :clap1: :clap1:

[DemolitionRed]

We went out with some friends last night and one of them, a doctor, said... "I'm not a gynaecologist but I know what a ***** looks like".

How is the 7 day NHS system going to be funded?

YF0H4Wo_YOU