Labour preach femininism yet the tories have the female pm's?

[the truth]

Just underlines how a lot of labours fake quick fix social engineering tactics dont work, whereas the tories in this case have a system more meritocratic where its simply the bets person for the job not women only shortlists which often are undemocratic unmeriticratic and dont get the best person for the job. i dont care what gender the leader is, but let them get there on merit

[Crimson Dynamo]

socialism never works as it starts off with a failure to understand people

[_Tom_]

Labour's never had a female party leader in its 116 years. It's a disgrace.

[Crimson Dynamo]

that is shocking

[DemolitionRed]

The Conservatives have only had one before but was the Iron Lady really a female?

[joeysteele]

I do not see what sex a PM is should be relevant.

Labour has had some really strong Women as Cabinet Ministers.
People like Barbara Castle and Shirley Williams to name 2.
In fact I think had she not lost her seat in the 1979 election, had she then stood Shirley Williams would have been chosen by Labour as leader then to combat Margaret Thatcher.

I think the novelty of a female PM is now long past however and there were Women candidates in the last leadership election for leader who failed again.
They will get there one day but to me it's irrelevant, just who can do the job is what matters.

Labour has however been temporarily led by 2 Women over 3 occasions, Margaret Beckett after John Smith died until Tony Blair was elected,and Harriett Harman twice, between Gordon Brown and Ed Miliband and then between Miliband and Corbyn too.

Mind you if this is the best 2 Women for the top job this time round then the parties are in a pretty poor position.

[the truth]

I do not see what sex a PM is should be relevant.

Labour has had some really strong Women as Cabinet Ministers.
People like Barbara Castle and Shirley Williams to name 2.
In fact I think had she not lost her seat in the 1979 election, had she then stood Shirley Williams would have been chosen by Labour as leader then to combat Margaret Thatcher.

I think the novelty of a female PM is now long past however and there were Women candidates in the last leadership election for leader who failed again.
They will get there one day but to me it's irrelevant, just who can do the job is what matters.

Labour has however been temporarily led by 2 Women over 3 occasions, Margaret Beckett after John Smith died until Tony Blair was elected,and Harriett Harman twice, between Gordon Brown and Ed Miliband and then between Miliband and Corbyn too.

Mind you if this is the best 2 Women for the top job this time round then the parties are in a pretty poor position.

just endured another pitiful politically correct bbc news episode when they taught us almost nothing about these 2 candidates but repeeated the fact they are 2 women 9 times in the same report, absolutely mind numbingly pathetic. are we going to grill these 2 and every facet of their beings, their beliefs careers intelligence, character and potential like male candidates, i sincerely hope so. in reality most people who criticize will at some stage simply be called sexist and their flaws will be ignored

[joeysteele]

just endured another pitiful politically correct bbc news episode when they taught us almost nothing about these 2 candidates but repeeated the fact they are 2 women 9 times in the same report, absolutely mind numbingly pathetic. are we going to grill these 2 and every facet of their beings, their beliefs careers intelligence, character and potential like male candidates, i sincerely hope so. in reality most people who criticize will at some stage simply be called sexist and their flaws will be ignored

Exactly, I agree with you on that.
They will likely get much easier ride and likely far less intrusion as to those connected to them,unlike what a male candidate would be going through.

I agree with you it is not sexist at all to disapprove of choices just because they are female, I further agree it would be seen as that however.

I still state and believe that to me, these are 2 of the worst possible candidates there could be,not because they are women but that their uncompromising attitudes,their ideas and policies stink to high heaven.

[the truth]

Exactly, I agree with you on that.
They will likely get much easier ride and likely far less intrusion as to those connected to them,unlike what a male candidate would be going through.

I agree with you it is not sexist at all to disapprove of choices just because they are female, I further agree it would be seen as that however.

I still state and believe that to me, these are 2 of the worst possible candidates there could be,not because they are women but that their uncompromising attitudes,their ideas and policies stink to high heaven.


one is a hedge fund manager with a career of tax avoidance and dont even get me started on teresa may, some of her statements and decision making made donald trump look like a teddy bear. her public service slashes were utterly ruthless too

[joeysteele]

one is a hedge fund manager with a career of tax avoidance and dont even get me started on teresa may, some of her statements and decision making made donald trump look like a teddy bear. her public service slashes were utterly ruthless too

No disagreement from me with you there 'the truth'.:cheer2:

[bots]

I think if Theresa wins it, it will be like the 2nd coming of Maggie. Should be entertaining, but I do think she will be a strong negotiator, which is exactly what we need over the next few years. There is always the time in history for a particular type of person, even when they wouldn't be considered at any other time.

[kirklancaster]

No disagreement from me with you there 'the truth'.:cheer2:

:fist: Will you and The Truth get a room Joey? :laugh:

(Just joking Truth.)

[the truth]

:fist: Will you and The Truth get a room Joey? :laugh:

(Just joking Truth.)

lol our current bromance is purely platonic , but we're bound to find something else to disagree over soon

[arista]

Labour's never had a female party leader in its 116 years. It's a disgrace.

Yes they are to busy fighting each other
Old Labour Vs New Blair Labour

[the truth]

2 women leaders and no positive discrimination in sight, new labour are you listening, all discrimination is discrimination, choose your leaders on merit, its a democracy

[Scarlett.]

Let's not forget the current candidates are only in the running because everyone else has resigned.

[the truth]

Let's not forget the current candidates are only in the running because everyone else has resigned.

prime ministers always resign in the end, i dont see your point tbh

[Scarlett.]

prime ministers always resign in the end, i dont see your point tbh

1 year into their term? Then there is Boris. Let's not make this out to be a move decided by forward thinking Tories. A second female PM is great, just a shame they're both quite right wing.

[arista]

1 year into their term? Then there is Boris. Let's not make this out to be a move decided by forward thinking Tories. A second female PM is great, just a shame they're both quite right wing.


Yes I understand your fear.


BBC1HD QT last night was great
Nice everyone on the panel
accepted we are Out.

Of course much TIME was wasted on Blair
BBC should be more flexible and give the them a xtra30mins
for Brexit questions
Sky updates the planner
virgin does not.

I mean Feck me the BBC Tennis fecks up everything
Flexible on that - the Feckers are
the One Show on BBC2 - is Fecking stupid

[joeysteele]

:fist: Will you and The Truth get a room Joey? :laugh:

(Just joking Truth.)

Whenever I agree with anyone I will say so, it is only personal insults I do not like or see the need for.

Actually for a fair while on here he and I agreed on lots of issues across the board and I am always glad when we can agree now on a range of issues.
This issue particularly.
We both will likely never support the same party,that still doesn't mean there is not more that probably unites than divides.
I always look for that, even with yourself and in truth, there are probably only about 3 on here that I would disagree with all the time now.
None of them being you or 'the truth'.

[Kazanne]

Doesn't that Leadsom woman want to bring back foxhunting ? well she can feck right off:fist:

[joeysteele]

Doesn't that Leadsom woman want to bring back foxhunting ? well she can feck right off:fist:

Yes she does, very much in favour of it.

[Kazanne]

Yes she does, very much in favour of it.

I know it's all about much more than foxhunting Joey but if they bring that back I will be done with them.

[joeysteele]

I know it's all about much more than foxhunting Joey but if they bring that back I will be done with them.

What I don't like about Leadsom is she is hiding what she really thinks in my view.
I watched her closely in interviews and she smiles often when ,making a serious or controversial point.
I have found that is often a trait in someone lying and deceiving.

The smile hiding more sinister thinking, so she's not for me I'm afraid, no matter what party she was from, to me she is as false as false can be.

Obviously as I have said on another thread, I abhor foxhunting with hounds so for me that's just another reason to be wary of her.

[Kazanne]

What I don't like about Leadsom is she is hiding what she really thinks in my view.
I watched her closely in interviews and she smiles often when ,making a serious or controversial point.
I have found that is often a trait in someone lying and deceiving.

The smile hiding more sinister thinking, so she's not for me I'm afraid, no matter what party she was from, to me she is as false as false can be.

Obviously as I have said on another thread, I abhor foxhunting with hounds so for me that's just another reason to be wary of her.

I agree Joey,I don't know much about her but did catch the foxhunting thing yesterday,so that was enough for me,I still wish Cameron was in charge but it's not to be,they need to give themselves a good sort out as do Labour,we seem in turmoil at the moment.

[joeysteele]

I agree Joey,I don't know much about her but did catch the foxhunting thing yesterday,so that was enough for me,I still wish Cameron was in charge but it's not to be,they need to give themselves a good sort out as do Labour,we seem in turmoil at the moment.

It is chaos all round at present Kazanne, unfortunately.
Neither of these candidates, May or Leadsom are the real answer to it either.

[_Tom_]

Err Theresa May holds exactly the same opinion - she wants to repeal the fox hunting ban as well

[kirklancaster]

Foxhunting: "The unspeakable in pursuit of the inedible" - Oscar Wilde

Shame on both these bitches then.

[arista]

Foxhunting: "The unspeakable in pursuit of the inedible" - Oscar Wilde

Shame on both these bitches then.

Not a problem Kirk
its not on any agenda


Contract 50 Out of the FECKING EU
must get started this year ending



India is ready to Trade Free from Tax
I thank them
That's the spirit



Feel The Force

[kirklancaster]

Not a problem Kirk
its not on any agenda


Contract 50 Out of the FECKING EU
must get started this year ending



India is ready to Trade Free from Tax
I thank them
That's the spirit



Feel The Force

Yes - you are correct Arista. Someone who is 100% committed to a Brexit deal which is THE most beneficial to the UK is what is most important, and that someone also has to be strong enough to implement FAIR policies which can heal The schism which exists in the UK now.

India is GREAT news, but only the tip of the iceberg, because MORE countries will follow - including an EU desperate to maintain her very beneficial, much needed, MULTI BILLIONS OF POUNDS surplus trade with the UK.

[bots]

this fox hunting ban is a complete red herring. There are so many ways around the ban, its laughable. Also, living in an area that used to have fox hunts regularly, and now seeing foxes everywhere, causing damage, and getting more and more of a nuisance, other methods of controlling numbers need to be used to keep the problem manageable.

[kirklancaster]

this fox hunting ban is a complete red herring. There are so many ways around the ban, its laughable. Also, living in an area that used to have fox hunts regularly, and now seeing foxes everywhere, causing damage, and getting more and more of a nuisance, other methods of controlling numbers need to be used to keep the problem manageable.

I agree.

[Kizzy]

Is there any free movement attached to the free trade?

[joeysteele]

If there are ways around the fox hunting ban in place,then the law as to it needs to be tightened up further not repealing.
Also those getting ways around it facing much harsher penalties for doing so.

Also I still say article 50 and brexit should not be undertaken until a general election is held.

Nowhere in the referendum just held, is there a timetable for leaving the EU.
Article 50 can be triggered any time and I think it outrageous if it were done before another general election.
If the election is not going to be until 2020 as these 2 say, then no way should it be until then.
There is no mandate at all to trigger it as to time or even to what deals may have to be done.

All I can see coming from this arrogance and stubbornness of these 2 women as would be leaders as to that is a great deal more division being created across the UK.

A general election too could also test Scotland as to an independence referendum as to how well or not the SNP did in a new general election for Westminster.

[Kizzy]

Don't get me wrong I love foxes, but let's not get distracted from bigger issues such as human rights and workers directives... don't take your eye off the ball.

[joeysteele]

Don't get me wrong I love foxes, but let's not get distracted from bigger issues such as human rights and workers directives... don't take your eye off the ball.

Absolutely right Kizzy and great to see you back again.

[Kizzy]

Absolutely right Kizzy and great to see you back again.

Thanks Joey, back in tonight so off again ...fight the good fight! :laugh:

[Munchkins]

As a Feminist i couldn't care less at the candidates both being women, when both are abhorrent women
Woman doesn't = Feminist. It's ridiculously seeing so many laud this as some massive victory for women

[arista]

Is there any free movement attached to the free trade?


India needs its workers there
to run VirginMedia helplines etc
Those are 10 year contracts in some cases

[the truth]

As a Feminist i couldn't care less at the candidates both being women, when both are abhorrent women
Woman doesn't = Feminist. It's ridiculously seeing so many laud this as some massive victory for women

there should be no war of the sexes at all.. feminism should roll over and die. equal opportunities for all, equal laws for all, there is no war of the sexes its not a mans world nor a womans world, the world belongs to the uber rich and tghe only wars are between the top 1% elite and the rest. the sooner we actually understand this the quicker we will move forward and start to solve the real problems and the real evil in the world. world war 1 and 2, 90 million young poor working class men died fighting rich peoples wars. we must not allow the elite to divide and conquer us any more. working class men and women must come together and fight the power

[Mystic Mock]

They both are the same party nowadays.

The Tories and Labour would do the same tactic as what the old Tories did to Margaret Thatcher, set her up as the villain, and then get rid of her for the "nice" gentleman.

Politics is still misogynistic, but it's just better at hiding it nowadays.

[Mystic Mock]

If there are ways around the fox hunting ban in place,then the law as to it needs to be tightened up further not repealing.
Also those getting ways around it facing much harsher penalties for doing so.

Also I still say article 50 and brexit should not be undertaken until a general election is held.

Nowhere in the referendum just held, is there a timetable for leaving the EU.
Article 50 can be triggered any time and I think it outrageous if it were done before another general election.
If the election is not going to be until 2020 as these 2 say, then no way should it be until then.
There is no mandate at all to trigger it as to time or even to what deals may have to be done.

All I can see coming from this arrogance and stubbornness of these 2 women as would be leaders as to that is a great deal more division being created across the UK.

A general election too could also test Scotland as to an independence referendum as to how well or not the SNP did in a new general election for Westminster.

What I find fascinating with the BIB Joey is that reports are saying that Scotland have got to get over 60% to pull out of the UK if they got a 2nd Referendum because it's a big change for the country so it has to have a big majority to win (and rightly so) yet when it's to do with pulling out of a huge trade union (the EU) apparently 48% can go and **** themselves.

[Mystic Mock]

there should be no war of the sexes at all.. feminism should roll over and die. equal opportunities for all, equal laws for all, there is no war of the sexes its not a mans world nor a womans world, the world belongs to the uber rich and tghe only wars are between the top 1% elite and the rest. the sooner we actually understand this the quicker we will move forward and start to solve the real problems and the real evil in the world. world war 1 and 2, 90 million young poor working class men died fighting rich peoples wars. we must not allow the elite to divide and conquer us any more. working class men and women must come together and fight the power

The first step towards that is to find evidence on how corrupt the Media is, get the Media on the people's side and you've got the Government on it's knees.

[Tom4784]

Boris would have won if he was eligible so it's not really a case of Tories caring about diversity, it's just because of the circumstances.

The Tories have looney tunes like Stephen Crabb in positions of power so let's not cheer them for their diversity just yet.

[Livia]

Not many claims of anti-Semitism in the Tories though... unlike Labour, which is RIFE with it. The Tories don't have the monopoly of ****ing idiots.

[joeysteele]

Not many claims of anti-Semitism in the Tories though... unlike Labour, which is RIFE with it. The Tories don't have the monopoly of ****ing idiots.

The investigation and report from that says different,that is a serious accusation to level at a whole Party.
One would certainly hope you likely have concrete proof as to such careless and dangerous talk, if it is not just a likely prejudiced view against the Labour party and those who are in it.

Because I do not see that as the case at all and I am in the Labour party.

[Mystic Mock]

Not many claims of anti-Semitism in the Tories though... unlike Labour, which is RIFE with it. The Tories don't have the monopoly of ****ing idiots.

I'm not condoning that from Labour either.

Our War Veterans went after Hitler for a reason.

[Mystic Mock]

The investigation and report from that says different,that is a serious accusation to level at a whole Party.
One would certainly hope you likely have concrete proof as to such careless and dangerous talk, if it is not just a likely prejudiced view against the Labour party and those who are in it.

Because I do not see that as the case at all and I am in the Labour party.

Is there any higher than usual amounts of prejudice against the Jewish faith in the party?

[joeysteele]

Is there any higher than usual amounts of prejudice against the Jewish faith in the party?

I find very little Mock. so I would say in answer to you no.

There are, as there are everywhere, those who sympathise with the Palestinians more than they do Israel, and some who support the Palestinians and not Israel at all, but people have to make their minds up as to whether that is real anti-semitism or not.
I don't think it is personally, and it is a heavy accusation to make against a whole party and the people in it.

What anti-semitism ever needed to be raised on an all woman party 'leadership' topic thread is also beyond me.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Boris would have won if he was eligible so it's not really a case of Tories caring about diversity, it's just because of the circumstances.

The Tories have looney tunes like Stephen Crabb in positions of power so let's not cheer them for their diversity just yet.

agreed and that odious hypocrite crabb has been cheating on his wife it appears today

[Livia]

Is there any higher than usual amounts of prejudice against the Jewish faith in the party?

Yes, there is. So much so that Corbyn himself has admitted that Jewish Labour donors haven't given any donations since he took over. Jews make up less than 0.5% of the population and yet gave one third of Labour's donations... but not any more. And the more denial there is in the party, the less backing they'll get from the Jewish community.

[the truth]

They both are the same party nowadays.

The Tories and Labour would do the same tactic as what the old Tories did to Margaret Thatcher, set her up as the villain, and then get rid of her for the "nice" gentleman.

Politics is still misogynistic, but it's just better at hiding it nowadays.

I think there is more male hate misandrist, sexism against men now in the UK
We need to get rid of misandry and mysogyny , firstly by accepting that the war is not men v women , but very rich v poor

[joeysteele]

Yes, there is. So much so that Corbyn himself has admitted that Jewish Labour donors haven't given any donations since he took over. Jews make up less than 0.5% of the population and yet gave one third of Labour's donations... but not any more. And the more denial there is in the party, the less backing they'll get from the Jewish community.

I say you are wrong,all you do is get at the Labour Party and in fact all people on the left of politics, branding them all sorts of things.

You may be right Jewish donors have pulled back from donating to Labour, that is their prerogative to do so.
It does not however make the dangerous and nasty accusations you make right against a whole Party or the people in it.

The vast majority would fight and stand against any anti-semitism.
Why you have even chosen to derail this thread with anti-semitism accusations, when it is about female leadership of parties is beyond all understanding to me.

[Livia]

I say you are wrong,all you do is get at the Labour Party and in fact all people on the left of politics, branding them all sorts of things.

You may be right Jewish donors have pulled back from donating to Labour, that is their prerogative to do so.
It does not however make the dangerous and nasty accusations you make right against a whole Party or the people in it.

The vast majority would fight and stand against any anti-semitism.
Why you have even chosen to derail this thread with anti-semitism accusations, when it is about female leadership of parties is beyond all understanding to me.

All I do? Seriously? This is a discussion thread. I'm allowed to say what I feel even if it doesn't fit in with your own opinion. And let's face it, the hatred against anything right of centre on this forum is rife.

I have not derailed the thread, I drew a comparison.

If Labour can't sort out it's anti-Semitism problem and just ignore it, that's their choice. Don't expect people, especially Jewish people, not to mention it.

[joeysteele]

All I do? Seriously? This is a discussion thread. I'm allowed to say what I feel even if it doesn't fit in with your own opinion. And let's face it, the hatred against anything right of centre on this forum is rife.

I have not derailed the thread, I drew a comparison.

If Labour can't sort out it's anti-Semitism problem and just ignore it, that's their choice. Don't expect people, especially Jewish people, not to mention it.

I have Jewish friends who have not the slightest bit of hatred you have against those on the left of politics.
It is a debating forum and this thread is about female leaders of Parties. no mention of anti-semitism,only why the Conservative party has had 2 female leaders and labour none.
What on earth has anti semitism got to do with this thread.

You are the only person who started the anti-semitism issue off, if you feel that strongly about it and need to spout venom against the left of politics as to it.
Perhaps a thread made on the subject would have been a more appropriate route to take, then us decent people who are in the Labour party and support it,from the left of politics, and also are not red Nazis or anything else you call us, can avoid going on such thread to read the insults thrown by you generally at decent people, insults they get from you likely only because they are on the left of politics..

[Livia]

I have Jewish friends who have not the slightest bit of hatred you have against those on the left of politics.
It is a debating forum and this thread is about female leaders of Parties. no mention of anti-semitism,only why the Conservative party has had 2 female leaders and labour none.
What on earth has anti semitism got to do with this thread.

You are the only person who started the anti-semitism issue off, if you feel that strongly about it and need to spout venom against the left of politics as to it.
Perhaps a thread made on the subject would have been a more appropriate route to take, then us decent people who are in the Labour party and support it,from the left of politics, and also are not red Nazis or anything else you call us, can avoid going on such thread to read the insults thrown by you generally at decent people, insults they get from you likely only because they are on the left of politics..

You have Jewish friends. I have friends on the left of politics. That doesn't give either of us the edge.

I'm going to say this one more time. I referred to 'red Nazis' entirely in context with the thread in which I posted. In no way could it be inferred that I was attaching that phrase to anyone on this forum. I was using the term as it had been frequently used in the press in the past aimed at a particular group of politicians. So please, stop circuitously saying I used the term in reference to forum members because I didn't.

I have massive respect for quite a few Labour politicians and recognise, quite often, they have the high ground in my opinion. I can also recognise when Conservative politicians are hopelessly out of order and I don't hold back in saying so. I don't blindly accept whatever cock-eyed ideas they come up with.

Where you get this idea that I'm spouting venom or that I have any kind of hatred is several parsecs off the mark.

[joeysteele]

Anyway not contributing to any further derailing of this thread.

I have to point out it may be there is a female candidate to become Leader of the Labour party now, that is if she actually does it this time.

However it is doomed to failure in my view because who really wants Angela Eagle, is she honestly the best they could put up for a leadership contest.
It will happen one day but she for sure is not the one.

[the truth]

Anyway not contributing to any further derailing of this thread.

I have to point out it may be there is a female candidate to become Leader of the Labour party now, that is if she actually does it this time.

However it is doomed to failure in my view because who really wants Angela Eagle, is she honestly the best they could put up for a leadership contest.
It will happen one day but she for sure is not the one.

she is a vile blairite warmonger. which means she will be popular amongst many of the new labour mps but detested by the members

[joeysteele]

she is a vile blairite warmonger. which means she will be popular amongst many of the new labour mps but detested by the members

I do not think she has a hope of beating him the truth, I would not support her as leader over Corbyn for sure.

What is this anyway,it appears she wants to be the only name against him and no one else stand too.
What kind of leadership battle is that,restricting choice.

Actually he gave a rather good account of himself on the Marr programme this morning too.

[the truth]

corbyn has now become essential to british democracy.
The man has flaws, dont we all? I dont think he is an anti semite at all, he doesnt seem sympathetic to the plight of the palestinians and the illegal occupations by Israel. But on the other hand I also see the israeli point of view under endless attack. The hezbollah situation seems to be a major sticking point. The whole Israel state has been a disaster from day 1 and imo should never have happened. But we are where we are and all sides simply need to be more grown up less full of vengeful hate and simply respect each other with a 2 state solution. Lets pray it happens sooner rather than later. With the hysteria of the british press we rarely hear a calm proper debate we simply get the edited highlights often taken out of context. time for calm reasoned compromise

Corbyn needs to prove he and labour can run the economy and he needs to show himself as business friendly , rather than corporate friendly, craeater healthier more competitive economy. He needs to form a coallition with sme's. He needs to think outside the westminster bubble and build a bigger broader coallition. He needs to outline his vision now, which I assume is to reign in corporate greed, monopolies and endless tax evasion/avoidance. People probably realise he feels strongly on this. However he also needs to show he will expose the mass of public sector cover ups we saw under new labour, such as stafford nhs, the rotherham child sex scandals , the iraq war etc with stronger checks and balances and strengthen the ombudsmen and the complaints confidentiality processes. A coallition of Public sector workers combined with sme's and a fair slice of the working people could see him emerge victorious. Frankly if there was just one mp who could do something with the roads that may be enough to earn them votes. So few politicians actually start a job and finish it

[Liberty4eva]

Responding to the title of the thread, I think not having female candidates isn't the biggest contradiction with preaching feminism. What about their defending of Islam which teaches that a woman's word is only worth half that of a man? And defending the culture that "empowers" women by covering them from the head down.

Actually, both feminism and Islam have at least one thing in common in that they are intolerant doctrines of hostility. One hates man the other hates women.

[the truth]

Responding to the title of the thread, I think not having female candidates isn't the biggest contradiction with preaching feminism. What about their defending of Islam which teaches that a woman's word is only worth half that of a man? And defending the culture that "empowers" women by covering them from the head down.

Actually, both feminism and Islam have at least one thing in common in that they are intolerant doctrines of hostility. One hates man the other hates women.

abslutely brilliant thought provoking post, fair play, dda iawn as they in west wales:cheer2: