Do you believe Islam is peaceful?

[Liberty4eva]

Well...do you?

[lewis111]

Region is the cause for so so many wars through out history so I don't believe religion as a whole is peaceful
It just so happens that we are living in a time where a small percentage of Muslims are the bad ones

And the way a lot of people interprete the quaran isn't very peaceful either

[the truth]

Region is the cause for so so many wars through out history so I don't believe religion as a whole is peaceful
It just so happens that we are living in a time where a small percentage of Muslims are the bad ones

And the way a lot of people interprete the quaran isn't very peaceful either

Blaming religion is simplistic drivel. The world has always been at war.

[Vicky.]

Generally yes. Religion (to me anyway) just gives hope to many, and hope is never a bad thing. I am not religious in the slightest and think its all fairy stories, but if it makes large numbers of people happy and feel safe, who am I to judge?

I do not believe a minority of people using Islam as an excuse to do terrible things are representative of the religion itself, same as I don't blame all Catholics for the actions of the IRA and such.

These nutjobs will always do terrible things and find someone/something to blame it on.

[Pete.]

Yes

It's reductive for someone to see how Islam is portrayed in the media and not recognise that extremists are a minority bunch of crazies who do not reflect the core virtues of Islam anyway? As Vicky said the IRA did not give Catholics a reputation of trigger happy bombers so why should normal muslims with IS and the like?

[Firewire]

Yes

It's reductive for someone to see how Islam is portrayed in the media and not recognise that extremists are a minority bunch of crazies who do not reflect the core virtues of Islam anyway? As Vicky said the IRA did not give Catholics a reputation of trigger happy bombers so why should normal muslims with IS and the like?

This

And the KKK do not represent Christianity!

[Tom4784]

It's no more or less violent than any other religion. The Bible has plenty of passages that preach violence yet we don't demonise it since we know that people pick and choose parts of the Bible to pay attention to. Same goes for the Quran.

Terrorist organisations only use Islam as a method of control and recruitment. When it comes down to it, IS is as much as an islamic group as Britain First.

[Maru]

I confess I chose the cop out option only because I really don't know enough about Islam to draw any reasonable conclusions.

Briefly speaking on the subject, I think Christianity is meant to teach about peaceful coexistent but then it has been used to justify horrible acts and wars such as Islam has been.

I'd like to believe that Islam is a peaceful religion as well, although, I have heard from various others that quotes may exist in the Quran that may indicate the latter (an eye for an eye is the example I recall the most), but then I also feel that the bible opened up many doors in it's own texts to empowering hate groups towards various segments of the population throughout history.

At the end of the day though I feel that many texts, philosophy, policy or law could be twisted or radicalized to achieve dishonorable goals.

So I guess ultimately my thought is probably yes, but I voted don't know because it felt the most correct and that to vote yes would be like saying I'm educated on the matter when I most definitely am not.

[Jamie89]

Yes

It's reductive for someone to see how Islam is portrayed in the media and not recognise that extremists are a minority bunch of crazies who do not reflect the core virtues of Islam anyway? As Vicky said the IRA did not give Catholics a reputation of trigger happy bombers so why should normal muslims with IS and the like?

It's no more or less violent than any other religion. The Bible has plenty of passages that preach violence yet we don't demonise it since we know that people pick and choose parts of the Bible to pay attention to. Same goes for the Quran.

Terrorist organisations only use Islam as a method of control and recruitment. When it comes down to it, IS is as much as an islamic group as Britain First.

This. Religions aren't violent, people are.

[the truth]

Islam is a newer religion but its more concerned with the quran and the old testament that the the the revelations in the enlightened new testament. New testament is more revolutionary , with its turn the other cheek, repentance, forgiveness, redemption, do not rush to judge others. Im a new testament type of person, less harsh I believe in the concepts of redemption, repentance, forgiveness etc Though its vital to remember to earn penance and forgiveness one must first repent and stop sinning. I suggest the Mission is a good movie to understand this concept. Some worship Jesus, some dont. Whether he was who he claimed to be or whether he was a fiction, the man represented a lot of great ideals and beliefs that I am and billions of others choose to follow. As far as Im concerned his influence on the world is profoundly good. The fact there are many who would pervert his words and deeds for their own ends, is not a reflection of Jesus but on those evil doers. In the hands of the wrong people it can be dangerous and we must always be vigilant of this.

[Ellen]

Its not Religion, most Religions promote peace. Its some people who use Religion as an excuse for for doing bad things.

[Kazanne]

Its not Religion, most Religions promote peace. Its some people who use Religion as an excuse for for doing bad things.

^^^This

[the truth]

Its not Religion, most Religions promote peace. Its some people who use Religion as an excuse for for doing bad things.

true. people forget the billions of funds raised by Christianity especially. the feed the starving, the worldwide missionary work that helps 100s of millions.

[Crimson Dynamo]

no, its an unreformed vile superstition and we should eradicate every part of it from this country.

It has plenty of interpretation, like all book based cults, to create death


Ultimately if you believe that there is someone greater than the law who is in charge you can justify anything and just say "well alan told me to do it"

Peaceful?

er just look at the evidence

[arista]

Well...do you?


Yes many are peaceful
but the few that are Extreme
hide within them

[joeysteele]

Its not Religion, most Religions promote peace. Its some people who use Religion as an excuse for for doing bad things.

This for me too, well stated.

[arista]

wrong Dezzy

Isis cut the head off
from the British hostage
shown online.


Dezzy you are so wrong

[Crimson Dynamo]

during both world wars most germans were peaceful..

[arista]

during both world wars most germans were peaceful..

Except the Gas Rooms
WW2 Evil Germans sent
the Jews were sent to have a shower -- naked

[Livia]

I think 10% of Islam is violent and 90% hide their complacency with protestations of peace.

[Livia]

Ninastar introduced me to Brigitte Gabriel and she's posted this clip before, but it's really worth posting it again.

Ry3NzkAOo3s

[the truth]

there is simply no way we can ignore the fact there is a serious problem within Islam, to use political correctness to brush it off as a tiny minority is extremely dangerous....34000 innocents were killed last year by radical jihadists last year, that figure is rising. even if its just 10% thats still 120 million radicals. donald trumps suggestions are way over the top, but on the other hand angela merkels strategy is just as insane and dangerous at the other end of the spectrum

[bots]

How can any religion be peaceful when its aims are to convert 'heathens' to it. If it were peaceful, it would have no designs on expansionism.

While it can be said that the majority in a religion are peaceful, that means squat when that religion encompasses millions of people, because the simple fact is, many, many followers of that religion want to convert the heathens by any means, and their religion having expansionist aims freely condones that behaviour.

In this day and age it is ridiculous that any religion should be allowed to freely practice conversion. Remove that from them, and nutters have no longer any pretext to attach violence to religion.

[Niamh.]

Generally yes. Religion (to me anyway) just gives hope to many, and hope is never a bad thing. I am not religious in the slightest and think its all fairy stories, but if it makes large numbers of people happy and feel safe, who am I to judge?

I do not believe a minority of people using Islam as an excuse to do terrible things are representative of the religion itself, same as I don't blame all Catholics for the actions of the IRA and such.

These nutjobs will always do terrible things and find someone/something to blame it on.

Yes

It's reductive for someone to see how Islam is portrayed in the media and not recognise that extremists are a minority bunch of crazies who do not reflect the core virtues of Islam anyway? As Vicky said the IRA did not give Catholics a reputation of trigger happy bombers so why should normal muslims with IS and the like?

imo the IRA is not comparable here when you're talking about using Religion as a war tool. This was not why the IRA was formed, the IRA was formed because Ireland was taken over by Britain and then split in two and the IRA were fighting for the country back, not because they were trying to convert anyone to Catholicism or were doing it in the name of Catholicism, it really annoys me when British people try to pass it off as some sort of religious war. Yes most of the "Republicans" in the North are/were Catholics but that's just because Catholicism was the predominant Irish religion. There were actually Protestant members of the IRA too.

I'm not defending the IRA here btw especially in later years there was no going back but I hate the fact that alot of times British people are under the impression that the North was some sort of Religious war where the Catholics are trying to convert the Protestants or something when in Reality it was always a fight for our country back that you lot started by the way by invading us and beating our language out of us, etc etc

If it weren't for the IRA or the earlier version of it the whole of Ireland would still be part of Britain

[Crimson Dynamo]

Just ask any muslim child what the penalty for Apostasy is


:umm2:

[Livia]

imo the IRA is not comparable here when you're talking about using Religion as a war tool. This was not why the IRA was formed, the IRA was formed because Ireland was taken over by Britain and then split in two and the IRA were fighting for the country back, not because they were trying to convert anyone to Catholicism or were doing it in the name of Catholicism, it really annoys me when British people try to pass it off as some sort of religious war. Yes most of the "Republicans" in the North are/were Catholics but that's just because Catholicism was the predominant Irish religion. There were actually Protestant members of the IRA too.

I'm not defending the IRA here btw especially in later years there was no going back but I hate the fact that alot of times British people are under the impression that the North was some sort of Religious war where the Catholics are trying to convert the Protestants or something when in Reality it was always a fight for our country back that you lot started by the way by invading us and beating our language out of us, etc etc

If it weren't for the IRA or the earlier version of it the whole of Ireland would still be part of Britain

I agree with this. While I abhor what the IRA did, I don't think there's a right-thinking British person who doesn't acknowledge that they had a point. My father served in the British Army in Northern Ireland and he thinks their cause was a good one... but they chose violence and death. If they'd chosen a method other than packing pipes with nails and ball-bearings and blowing the arms and legs off of civilians to get what they wanted they'd have had more backing on the mainland. And then there's the whole problem of what to do with the Protestants in NI who want to remain British... But they are not comparable to IS and Al Qaeda or any of the various lunatic Islamic terror groups.

[Ninastar]

Ughh this is so complicated for me because in general the answer is no.

But its obvious there is a problem arising and we need to do something about it. Yes 'ISIS' arent 'true muslims' but we cannot deny that this is what they claim to be and they are acting on what they believe makes them a 'true muslim'...

What I don't like about Islam, is the way how they (and yes, other religions too) treat women. I just don't think I'll ever understand how its okay for a woman to wear something that completely covers her whole entire body in (sometimes) 40+ degree heat. I don't think its right at all. I know women have the choice to wear it, but tbh, I feel like there is a lot of pressure for women to wear it.

I love headscarves, I love the shawls and the dresses etc that a lot of women wear, I think they are absolutely beautiful. But when you have to walk 3 steps behind your man and you can only show your eyes in public... now that upsets me and it really annoys me too.

I remember going to Disneyworld in Florida (it was only about 30 degrees then, but still) and I saw a muslim family where there was one teenage girl and her two younger brothers. She had the full outfit on, whilst her brothers were running around in shorts and and a t-shirt...

I understand that a lot of muslims think that our women don't wear enough clothes (I dont blame them tbh) but to go to that extreme just makes me feel a bit sick.

Yes, I know other religions treat women like crap too, but this one seems to take the lead.

[Ninastar]

I hope that makes sense anyway. I'm so not the best with words (as you all know) but I'm honest with my words and thats all i care about really

[Cherie]

imo the IRA is not comparable here when you're talking about using Religion as a war tool. This was not why the IRA was formed, the IRA was formed because Ireland was taken over by Britain and then split in two and the IRA were fighting for the country back, not because they were trying to convert anyone to Catholicism or were doing it in the name of Catholicism, it really annoys me when British people try to pass it off as some sort of religious war. Yes most of the "Republicans" in the North are/were Catholics but that's just because Catholicism was the predominant Irish religion. There were actually Protestant members of the IRA too.

I'm not defending the IRA here btw especially in later years there was no going back but I hate the fact that alot of times British people are under the impression that the North was some sort of Religious war where the Catholics are trying to convert the Protestants or something when in Reality it was always a fight for our country back that you lot started by the way by invading us and beating our language out of us, etc etc

If it weren't for the IRA or the earlier version of it the whole of Ireland would still be part of Britain


:clap2:

[Niamh.]

I agree with this. While I abhor what the IRA did, I don't think there's a right-thinking British person who doesn't acknowledge that they had a point. My father served in the British Army in Northern Ireland and he thinks their cause was a good one... but they chose violence and death. If they'd chosen a method other than packing pipes with nails and ball-bearings and blowing the arms and legs off of civilians to get what they wanted they'd have had more backing on the mainland. And then there's the whole problem of what to do with the Protestants in NI who want to remain British... But they are not comparable to IS and Al Qaeda or any of the various lunatic Islamic terror groups.

mmm There was of course violence from both sides

[Livia]

mmm There was of course violence from both sides

Yes there was violence on both sides. But the IRA and the UDA didn't mind setting bombs in shopping centres and pubs etc, that's the difference. They didn't mind blowing up a Remembrance Day parade of veterans. Bloody Sunday aside, I don't think the Army did much blowing up of civilians.

[Niamh.]

Yes there was violence on both sides. But the IRA and the UDA didn't mind setting bombs in shopping centres and pubs etc, that's the difference. They didn't mind blowing up a Remembrance Day parade of veterans. Bloody Sunday aside, I don't think the Army did much blowing up of civilians.

The army sure did kill alot of civilians in Southern Ireland though before we got it back

[Livia]

The army sure did kill alot of civilians in Southern Ireland though before we got it back

Going back hundreds of years, yes... 800 years of the Fecking English and all that. I'm talking about since the Troubles. Since people became actually aware of what's going on in the world through mass media.

[Cherie]

The army sure did kill alot of civilians in Southern Ireland though before we got it back

That gets forgotten conveniently

[Cherie]

Going back hundreds of years, yes... 800 years of the Fecking English and all that. I'm talking about since the Troubles. Since people became actually aware of what's going on in the world through mass media.

You don't have to go back hundreds of years, we remember the fallen of the First World War, but not of 1916 ? :think:

[Niamh.]

Going back hundreds of years, yes... 800 years of the Fecking English and all that. I'm talking about since the Troubles. Since people became actually aware of what's going on in the world through mass media.

I'm not talking about 800 years ago, I'm talking about the 1920's, where is the line drawn here?

[Niamh.]

You don't have to go back hundreds of years, we remember the fallen of the First World War, but not of 1916 ? :think:

:clap1:

an Inconvenient history

[Livia]

I'm not talking about 800 years ago, I'm talking about the 1920's, where is the line drawn here?

Well, I was drawing the line from The Troubles. I can see I'm stirring up something here so I'm out.

[Crimson Dynamo]

It was Tony Blair who sorted out Ireland finally so i think we best forget the whole thing really


:dog:

[Livia]

You don't have to go back hundreds of years, we remember the fallen of the First World War, but not of 1916 ? :think:

You do? When a lot of those WW1 Irish soldiers returned to Ireland they were shunned, even buy their families, for siding with the British... if you want to talk about inconvenient truths.

I have always thought what happened in 1916 was a bloody travesty for the Irish people, and a shameful episode in British history, but it seems that be even talking about this is upsetting you and Niamh so... that's me done.

[Livia]

It was Tony Blair who sorted out Ireland finally so i think we best forget the whole thing really


:dog:

Sorry I posted, to be honest.

[Niamh.]

You do? When a lot of those WW1 Irish soldiers returned to Ireland they were shunned, even buy their families, for siding with the British... if you want to talk about inconvenient truths.

I have always thought what happened in 1916 was a bloody travesty for the Irish people, and a shameful episode in British history, but it seems that be even talking about this is upsetting you and Niamh so... that's me done.

And I can totally understand why considering what was going on in Ireland at the time, that isn't an inconvenient truth, why would you think it was?

[Livia]

And I can totally understand why considering what was going on in Ireland at the time, that isn't an inconvenient truth, why would you think it was?

You know, I didn't come on this thread to argue about the IRA. I was agreeing with your points about the IRA not being the same as IS. And now I've got you on one side and Cherie on the other, picking at everything I write.

Half my family weren't even British in 1916.

Why don't you and Cherie have a nice little chat about it between you and leave me out of it.

[Cherie]

You do? When a lot of those WW1 Irish soldiers returned to Ireland they were shunned, even buy their families, for siding with the British... if you want to talk about inconvenient truths.

I have always thought what happened in 1916 was a bloody travesty for the Irish people, and a shameful episode in British history, but it seems that be even talking about this is upsetting you and Niamh so... that's me done.

I'm not upset I find it interesting, we can't whitewash history and it doesn't matter how long ago it was it is what shapes a country, I don't expect anyone would want to whitewash the holocaust in 300 years, 400 years, 1,000 years, history is important, good and bad.

Nice to see I'm off ignore :tongue:

[Niamh.]

You know, I didn't come on this thread to argue about the IRA. I was agreeing with your points about the IRA not being the same as IS. And now I've got you on one side and Cherie on the other, picking at everything I write.

Half my family weren't even British in 1916.

Why don't you and Cherie have a nice little chat about it between you and leave me out of it.

That's fine Livia, I would have left it a few posts back when you said you didn't want to talk about it anymore but then you kept saying stuff, you can't say stuff that will provoke a reaction but then say "and that's that lets stop talking about it now"!

Regarding your original post quoting mine:
I'm glad you agree that they're not comparable but you also added to that original post so i responded to that and you responded to me again because you disagreed with something I said etc etc, I don't know why I'm being blamed when you were doing the same as what I was doing ie disagreeing with the parts of my posts that you didn't agree with :shrug:

[Tom4784]

The bible preaches that we should stone people for wearing two different fabrics. There's bat**** crazy stuff in all religious texts that no longer apply to today's world and is ignored by most followers and it's no different for Islam. Your Average christian isn't going to go around killing people for eating shellfish and your average Muslim wouldn't carry out the punishments listed on the Quran.

[Niamh.]

The bible preaches that we should stone people for wearing two different fabrics. There's bat**** crazy stuff in all religious texts that no longer apply to today's world and is ignored by most followers and it's no different for Islam. Your Average christian isn't going to go around killing people for eating shellfish and your average Muslim wouldn't carry out the punishments listed on the Quran.

Double Denim came from Jesus? :o

[Tom4784]

Double Denim came from Jesus? :o

I'm pretty sure Double Denim came from Satan in all honesty.

[Crimson Dynamo]

The bible preaches that we should stone people for wearing two different fabrics. There's bat**** crazy stuff in all religious texts that no longer apply to today's world and is ignored by most followers and it's no different for Islam. Your Average christian isn't going to go around killing people for eating shellfish and your average Muslim wouldn't carry out the punishments listed on the Quran.

you cant really compare the OT with the Koran like that. The NT is the new covenant to Christians and its a lot harder to use to justify death, unlike the unreformed religion of Islam and its guide book of bollocks the Koran

[Mystic Mock]

I personally believe that Christianity nor Islam is peaceful (Mohammed molests a nine year old in the Koran) (and Christianity promotes slavery as if it's a good thing) so no the Religions I don't think are peaceful.

However I do feel that individuals that follow a Religion can be peaceful like in all walks of life.

[the truth]

I suspect monarchy is more responsible for war and death than anything else. Now we may say the dark days of torture , rape and pillage are behind us. But most wars are still fought to make obscene profits for the elite 0.1% Divide and conquer has been going on a thousand years and were still pointing the finger at each other instead of these at the very top of the pyramid.

[Niamh.]

I suspect monarchy is more responsible for war and death than anything else. Now we may say the dark days of torture , rape and pillage are behind us. But most wars are still fought to make obscene profits for the elite 0.1% Divide and conquer has been going on a thousand years and were still pointing the finger at each other instead of these at the very top of the pyramid.

ain't that the truth

[Vicky.]

Erm, ok sorry. IRA were the first 'terrorist' organization that came into my head when IO wrote that post, didn't mean to start all of this :S

[Mystic Mock]

I suspect monarchy is more responsible for war and death than anything else. Now we may say the dark days of torture , rape and pillage are behind us. But most wars are still fought to make obscene profits for the elite 0.1% Divide and conquer has been going on a thousand years and were still pointing the finger at each other instead of these at the very top of the pyramid.

That's an excellent point The Truth.

[Tom4784]

you cant really compare the OT with the Koran like that. The NT is the new covenant to Christians and its a lot harder to use to justify death, unlike the unreformed religion of Islam and its guide book of bollocks the Koran

I can and I will, if the OT doesn't count then why is it still included in the Bible? It's as valid as the NT for this discussion.

All religions have violent passages, anyone can interpret them in ways to justify their own violent acts. This is not a Islamic thing, religious terrorism has existed for years before Islamic Terrorism rose to prominence and it'll exist for as long as there are people to use religion to justify their violent acts. Give it a decade or two and there will be another religion that's used to justify Terrorism.

Hell, the US suffers terrorist attacks from non-Muslims every few weeks but the media will never call the mass shootings terrorism because they don't wish to confuse the narrative that it's only Muslims that are a threat.

[Mystic Mock]

Erm, ok sorry. IRA were the first 'terrorist' organization that came into my head when IO wrote that post, didn't mean to start all of this :S

It's alright as I like discussions about the IRA as it's so morally gray, and that's coming from someone from England who probably shouldn't be understanding the IRA's point of view at all.

Where the IRA did go wrong was when they was deliberately blowing up kids, they lost the general public at that very moment.

[Crimson Dynamo]

What you have to ask is

Just who is the judge of what is the real Islam?

Because if the answer is a made up God then you know you are up sh1t creek without a paddle

[Crimson Dynamo]

and dont forget all the civil war that is going on within this great religion of peace

[Tom4784]

What you have to ask is

Just who is the judge of what is the real Islam?

Because if the answer is a made up God then you know you are up sh1t creek without a paddle

This could literally be said of any religion but okay...

[Mystic Mock]

This could literally be said of any religion but okay...

LT hates all Religions tbf, I've seen his posts about others and his not very flattering towards them.:laugh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

This could literally be said of any religion but okay...

It could but not every religion is creating terror and death like ISlam is at the moment

If you have a "god" that cant be questioned or wrong, a book that is the solution, is unalterable and is perfect and a religion that cannot be questioned then it will and does lead to violence and death when it is questioned or comes up against those who will not bend to its will.


to say its peaceful is fanciful

[Crimson Dynamo]

LT hates all Religions tbf, I've seen his posts about others and his not very flattering towards them.:laugh:

i dont hate the COE, no one can

its impossible

[Crimson Dynamo]

Look the reality is that things that tell you to believe in the impossible will always end up fckd up


walk around say Luton with a placard that says that the Koran is fake and wrong and see how peaceful things get


do the same in Norwich with one that says The Bible is fake and wrong and you may get the odd stare

its aint science but i bet i am right

[Novo]

Don't know about Islam but these Catholics are very evil indeed trying to reclaim our British Northern Ireland and hang the Tricolour outside Belfast, you can take that horrible Irish football team Celtic back to Ireland with you instead and make them play in your league and leave Northern Ireland to the Queen

[Tom4784]

It could but not every religion is creating terror and death like ISlam is at the moment

If you have a "god" that cant be questioned or wrong, a book that is the solution, is unalterable and is perfect and a religion that cannot be questioned then it will and does lead to violence and death when it is questioned or comes up against those who will not bend to its will.


to say its peaceful is fanciful

It's the people that are using the religion to justify their terrorism that are violent but you know that already.

Every major Muslim organisation has denounced the actions of IS and Al Queda ETC and they do it every time there's an attack. IS is as representative of Islam as the IRA (I bring it up due to how all Irish people were treated in the UK in response to the IRA attacks) is to Ireland or these mass shooters to young white males.

Again, your last paragraph applies to any religion ever.

[Crimson Dynamo]

It's the people that are using the religion to justify their terrorism that are violent but you know that already.

Every major Muslim organisation has denounced the actions of IS and Al Queda ETC and they do it every time there's an attack. IS is as representative of Islam as the IRA (I bring it up due to how all Irish people were treated in the UK in response to the IRA attacks) is to Ireland or these mass shooters to young white males.

Again, your last paragraph applies to any religion ever.

Of course its people as gods dont exist but i am afraid the religionists "think" they do.


Go back to the start of the last century and RC was the most dangerous religion


but now its Islam and its not likely to change

[Cherie]

Erm, ok sorry. IRA were the first 'terrorist' organization that came into my head when IO wrote that post, didn't mean to start all of this :S

:ninja2:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Don't know about Islam but these Catholics are very evil indeed trying to reclaim our British Northern Ireland and hang the Tricolour outside Belfast, you can take that horrible Irish football team Celtic back to Ireland with you instead and make them play in your league and leave Northern Ireland to the Queen

take hibs too

:ninja2:

[AProducer'sWetDream]

I would have to say no. But neither is Christianity or most other major religions, in my opinion.

A lot of people (I don't know whether it's a majority or a tiny minority) try to force their religious beliefs and values on others, so in that respect, I don't think religion as a whole is peaceful.

[jennyjuniper]

It's MEANT to be, but as is usual with any religion, the fruit and nut cases decipher it to suit themselves. In fact Buddism is probably the most peaceful religion out there.

[Maru]

Ughh this is so complicated for me because in general the answer is no.

But its obvious there is a problem arising and we need to do something about it. Yes 'ISIS' arent 'true muslims' but we cannot deny that this is what they claim to be and they are acting on what they believe makes them a 'true muslim'...

What I don't like about Islam, is the way how they (and yes, other religions too) treat women. I just don't think I'll ever understand how its okay for a woman to wear something that completely covers her whole entire body in (sometimes) 40+ degree heat. I don't think its right at all. I know women have the choice to wear it, but tbh, I feel like there is a lot of pressure for women to wear it.

I love headscarves, I love the shawls and the dresses etc that a lot of women wear, I think they are absolutely beautiful. But when you have to walk 3 steps behind your man and you can only show your eyes in public... now that upsets me and it really annoys me too.

I remember going to Disneyworld in Florida (it was only about 30 degrees then, but still) and I saw a muslim family where there was one teenage girl and her two younger brothers. She had the full outfit on, whilst her brothers were running around in shorts and and a t-shirt...

I understand that a lot of muslims think that our women don't wear enough clothes (I dont blame them tbh) but to go to that extreme just makes me feel a bit sick.

Yes, I know other religions treat women like crap too, but this one seems to take the lead.

Great post!

The part in bold leaves a pit in my stomach. It's just horrible.

Personally, I don't believe in telling other cultures how they should lead their lives as I'm very anti-ethnocentric... but I have an issue when one's spirituality starts to impinge on other people's rights to lead their own lives. Therefore, I don't follow a religion as I don't believe in indoctrinating others. My spiritual philosophy centers on the individual, not the group.

I don't feel religions should be politicized in the manner that they generally are now. Christianity is just as bad as Islam as the truth's post mentioned.

Still, I have a hard time judging Islam on the whole for this reason. It's like when the government raided the FLDS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalist_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-Day_Saints) in Texas. I agreed with it only because it is a brainwashing splinter religion built around raping women against their will and gaming the tax and welfare system.

For every radical Muslim, there are many peaceful and non-politically motivated parishioners who can coexistence peacefully. When we blame an entire religion for most of the problems in the world we are encouraging it's radicalization via counter-coercive forces, if not by faith, then by culture.

But most wars are still fought to make obscene profits for the elite 0.1% Divide and conquer has been going on a thousand years and were still pointing the finger at each other instead of these at the very top of the pyramid.

How can any religion be peaceful when its aims are to convert 'heathens' to it. If it were peaceful, it would have no designs on expansionism.

While it can be said that the majority in a religion are peaceful, that means squat when that religion encompasses millions of people, because the simple fact is, many, many followers of that religion want to convert the heathens by any means, and their religion having expansionist aims freely condones that behavior.

In this day and age it is ridiculous that any religion should be allowed to freely practice conversion. Remove that from them, and nutters have no longer any pretext to attach violence to religion.

A thousand times this in the bold. I don't necessarily agree with placing restrictions on religious conversion (it wouldn't be a religion anymore, it would be like the local HOA or a God fanclub :laugh:).

No religion can be the moniker of peace it often claims to be as long as a priority on expansionism is involved.

[Jamie89]

Double Denim came from Jesus? :o

That was a different deity

http://i.imgur.com/zHVLdkh.png?1

Praise ha :worship:

[_Tom_]

The easy (and redundant) answer is to say that all religions aren't peaceful or that there are non peaceful people in other religions. But all other major religions have reformed and have been modernised. Christianity had a reformation which purged it of its most intolerant and violent aspects, hence the New Testament. Pointing to intolerant passages in the Old Testament which no one has acted on for hundreds of years is not an argument. Islam is the only major religion that hasn't reformed their doctrine to make it compatible with modern civilisation. It is in dire need of a reformation.

Radicalism is not representative of all Muslims, but illiberal ideals, violence and extremism are representative of Islam and, unfortunately, many Muslims do condone such things. At least 10 Muslim countries impose the death penalty for apostasy and for homosexuality - and stone women to death for allegedly committing adultery. Executing people for being gay or for not believing the same thing as you is violent and wrong. It's not peaceful. Polls have shown that the majority of Muslims of various countries support the death penalty for these supposed crimes.

Islam is an ideology. We are allowed to scrutinise, even ridicule other religions like Christianity and Scientology. But not Islam. Why should it be above criticism? No ideology should. It should be just as easily mocked as any other faith. It's far easier to act as if critics of Islam have a problem with Muslims as people than it is to accept the uncomfortable truth.

[Maru]

The easy (and redundant) answer is to say that all religions aren't peaceful or that there are non peaceful people in other religions. But all other major religions have reformed and have been modernised. Christianity had a reformation which purged it of its most intolerant and violent aspects, hence the New Testament. Pointing to intolerant passages in the Old Testament which no one has acted on for hundreds of years is not an argument. Islam is the only major religion that hasn't reformed their doctrine to make it compatible with modern civilisation. It is in dire need of a reformation.

Radicalism is not representative of all Muslims, but illiberal ideals, violence and extremism are representative of Islam and, unfortunately, many Muslims do condone such things. At least 10 Muslim countries impose the death penalty for apostasy and for homosexuality - and stone women to death for allegedly committing adultery. Executing people for being gay or for not believing the same thing as you is violent and wrong. It's not peaceful. Polls have shown that the majority of Muslims of various countries support the death penalty for these supposed crimes.

Islam is an ideology. We are allowed to scrutinise, even ridicule other religions like Christianity and Scientology. But not Islam. Why should it be above criticism? No ideology should. It should be just as easily mocked as any other faith. It's far easier to act as if critics of Islam have a problem with Muslims as people than it is to accept the uncomfortable truth.

I somehow doubt Mohamed will return anytime soon to deliver the New Quran :laugh: Maybe someone should go into a mosque and ask Him for a copy...

If Islam were to become more modernized, it would have to be done in a manner that does not take away from what it is, i.e. not merely mimicking other religions. In many ways, Islam's identity is the direct antithesis to those major religions. The watered down version of Christianity we have in the US called 'non-denominational', the emergence of prosperity gospel and the general focus on personal happiness, good feelings and wealth would make most traditional Muslim's skin crawl.

I think that's the attractiveness of the religion for some. It's for those who believe in moralistic principles and older/traditional ways of looking at things.

There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but is there a Muslim Pope of sorts that can get everyone on the same page as to how to best interpret and communicate Muslim values to the rest of the world. I see it happening eventually actually... some sort of figurehead rising up and becoming the face of all Muslim's... hopefully it is not someone from the ashes of radicalism.

Edit: Very good post by the way.

[Niamh.]

That was a different deity

http://i.imgur.com/zHVLdkh.png?1

Praise ha :worship:

https://67.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1k3fuEs3I1qdojzho1_500.gif

[kirklancaster]

https://67.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1k3fuEs3I1qdojzho1_500.gif

:laugh::laugh::laugh: That FIRST spoiler is so hilarious, but that lowest Right Hand one. :fist:

[Kizzy]

Thousands of Muslims from around the world converged on the UK for a convention where they rejected extremism and violence of terror groups such as Isis.

More than 30,000 members of the Ahmadiyya Islamic movement met at Oakland Farm in Hampshire for a three-day convention, the 50th time the annual event has taken place.

On the final day, attendees were led by the global Caliph of the movement in a vow of peace and and a pledge of allegiance to their home countries "The only thing the terrorists are achieving is to completely violate the teachings of the Holy Quran and of the Holy Prophet Muhammad," His Holiness Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad told attendees, according to the MailOnline.

"Let it be clear that they are not practising Islam, rather it seems as though they have invented their own hate-filled and poisonous religion."


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/more-than-30000-ahmadiyya-muslims-from-across-the-world-meet-in-the-uk-to-reject-isis-and-islamic-a7191306.html

[Livia]

They had a convention. Well... that'll show IS. 30,000 of them having a weekend away is probably not going to have much of an impact on the millions of radical Muslims in the world.

[Kizzy]

Have people not been bleating that Muslims are not doing anything to denounce extremist violence?... Then when they do it's not enough :/

[billy123]

I dont know how many people Muslim terrorists have murdered in the west but im willing to bet it isnt as many as the 4 million people the western terrorists have murdered in wars in the middle east since 1990.
You would have to be pretty stupid not to realise why some might view the west as an enemy and as terrorists.

http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/unworthy-victims-western-wars-have-killed-four-million-muslims-1990-39149394

Why is it so hard for some people to accept that we are just as guilty of being horrible murderous wankers as anyone else is? Maybe even more so.
Is it really that suprising that some people hate the west to the point that they want revenge?

Until we stop murdering,pillaging and trying to force our own ideals on the rest of the world then we have no right to complain.

[Tom4784]

Have people not been bleating that Muslims are not doing anything to denounce extremist violence?... Then when they do it's not enough :/

It doesn't matter what Muslims do, some people feel that they need to hold on to their hate even though it's illogical and hypocritical since we don't make out that all Christians are peadophiles and must atone for a priest feeling up a kid every time it happens. Every time a Chrstian person does a terrible act people will always say 'oh but he isn't a REAL Christian' and they'll basically excuse the religious angle as long as the person is white and christian but ALL Muslims must atone for the acts of an extreme minority.

[Livia]

It doesn't matter what Muslims do, some people feel that they need to hold on to their hate even though it's illogical and hypocritical since we don't make out that all Christians are peadophiles and must atone for a priest feeling up a kid every time it happens. Every time a Chrstian person does a terrible act people will always say 'oh but he isn't a REAL Christian' and they'll basically excuse the religious angle as long as the person is white and christian but ALL Muslims must atone for the acts of an extreme minority.

Is everyone who thinks Islam is a violent faith "hypocritical and illogical"?

Catholic priests don't abuse children in the name of Christianity, Muslim terrorist do kill in the name of Islam. There isn't much of an analogy there, I'm afraid.

People acting in the name of Islam are on a killing spree right now, across the world. And they don't go for the clean kill, they crucify, they dismember, they skin, they cut babies in half in front of their parents... this isn't movie stuff, this is really happening. I've been to Jordan, I've been to the camps... I've heard the sh1t that goes on and I've heard it first hand.

I'm not going to answer your suggestion that, so long as people are white, then that's okay because frankly it's beneath contempt.

Getting together for a weekend and denouncing violence isn't enough. Moderate Muslims need to step up more because it's mostly THEY who are being slaughtered. Those Muslims living the soft life in the West need to speak up for their brothers and sisters in UN camps right now their homes destroyed and their loved ones dead.

The "extreme minority" of which you speak runs into MILLIONS. And every time anyone suggests Islam is dangerous and violent we have post after post suggesting that the majority of Muslims are peaceful. Well... we know that. And we know that 30,000 Muslims "from across the world" getting together and denouncing violence is like me throwing stones into the sea because there are sharks in there.

[Kizzy]

the analogy being the cloak of religion is used as a cover for evil deeds... That is how I understand it.
The sickening descriptors aren't necessary either for me.

Are those Muslims living the 'soft life' those born here, why then do they have to speak for anyone... why are they 'brothers and sisters'?
Surely this is 'stepping up' too, it's a positive non violent message hopefully it vibrates and expands rapidly.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Have people not been bleating that Muslims are not doing anything to denounce extremist violence?... Then when they do it's not enough :/

Since when is asking people to condem violence seen as 'bleating'?

[Crimson Dynamo]

For all the Muslims saying ISIS are not proper Muslims etc

Can you tell me who decides what the correct interpretation is?

[Kizzy]

Since when is asking people to condem violence seen as 'bleating'?

Since they are presuming is isn't already being asked naturally...

[Northern Monkey]

It should and could be peaceful.But it needs to evolve to be so.It is still a relatively young religion.

[Maru]

Does the media in the UK openly talk about Muslim vs. Muslim/World crimes? We don't get a lot of specifics here... mostly it's the terror vs US angle.

[Livia]

Does the media in the UK openly talk about Muslim vs. Muslim/World crimes? We don't get a lot of specifics here... mostly it's the terror vs US angle.

I'd say it gets quite a bit of coverage, although I suspect there will be people here who disagree. I was pleased that recently the UN camps have been the subject of a couple of documentaries. We also have quite a bit of coverage of the refugee crisis. Honestly? I don't know what we'd all do without access to the Internet, it's so liberating to be able to get a variety of news from around the world.

[user104658]

Does the media in the UK openly talk about Muslim vs. Muslim/World crimes? We don't get a lot of specifics here... mostly it's the terror vs US angle.
It gets brief mention in the headlines, very little or zero meaningful coverage in the mainstream media. Apparently that's because of "distance", but 5 deaths in Australia or the USA will get significantly more coverage than 1000 deaths in the Middle East.

You need to look at alternative / online news sources for anything else. The sad fact is, it just doesn't sell.

[Niamh.]

It should and could be peaceful.But it needs to evolve to be so.It is still a relatively young religion.

I think that's probably right

[Northern Monkey]

Does the media in the UK openly talk about Muslim vs. Muslim/World crimes? We don't get a lot of specifics here... mostly it's the terror vs US angle.

You can watch the Al Jazeera news channel for Middle Eastern stuff.

[Crimson Dynamo]

it needs to be eradicated from the UK and people "taught" evidence based logic, thought and reality if needs be. Why we tolerate any religion in 2016 is beyond me

and no town council should be allowed to build any mosque, in fact i would systematically close them one by one

or use them for youth clubs and craft fairs

[Kizzy]

Agreed, the idea that there is a 'house of god' is ridic.

[waterhog]

Well...do you?


I think you need a clearer poll with these options

the true islam
or
the corrupted islam.

as you see from the choices they are very similar but the big difference is the corrupt islam has no peace .

so my reply is simply - yes islam is peaceful but the people that corrupt it to mean what they are fighting for is not at all peaceful.

[Marsh.]

For all the Muslims saying ISIS are not proper Muslims etc

Can you tell me who decides what the correct interpretation is?

No one. It's called a personal opinion/belief.

That's the whole point.

If religion was proven and came down to one thing then there'd be no atheists and everyone would have the same interpretation wouldn't they?

[Marsh.]

it needs to be eradicated from the UK and people "taught" evidence based logic, thought and reality if needs be. Why we tolerate any religion in 2016 is beyond me

and no town council should be allowed to build any mosque, in fact i would systematically close them one by one

or use them for youth clubs and craft fairs

So on the one hand you don't want people being "taught" religion, yet on the other you want any beliefs people have to be eradicated and people "taught" to be intolerant of such things?

Okey dokey.

[Marsh.]

Agreed, the idea that there is a 'house of god' is ridic.

To you maybe.

Why should the country/world bend to suit your belief or lack thereof?

[Kizzy]

To you maybe.

Why should the country/world bend to suit your belief or lack thereof?

Yeah to me that's why I said it just there... I never said anyone should bend anything :/


pfff...

[Marsh.]

Yeah to me that's why I said it just there... I never said anyone should bend anything :/


pfff...

You "Agreed" with LT about systematically closing mosques down one by one, reason being apparently because you personally don't see a use or reason for them? The councils should not be allowed to open them because you find the idea of a house of God "ridic".

[user104658]

Needs an "I am honestly pretty creeped out by all religion" option.

[Kizzy]

You "Agreed" with LT about systematically closing mosques down one by one, reason being apparently because you personally don't see a use or reason for them? The councils should not be allowed to open them because you find the idea of a house of God "ridic".

I agreed with a portion of the post, please don't attempt to put words in my mouth.

My statement that houses of god are ridic was not a retort to LTs coment, I agree with the evidence based logic theory, that said there is room for faith... Which I choose to separate from religion.

Have I to issue a disclaimer every time I comment, that these are my own views and are not designed to offend or influence any one else in any way?

[Marsh.]

I agreed with a portion of the post, please don't attempt to put words in my mouth.

Have I to issue a disclaimer every time I comment, that these are my own views and are not designed to offend or influence any one else in any way?

Well when you simply "agree" after someone's post, people are to assume you agree with the full view if you aren't specifically agreeing with just a portion.

I'm not a mind reader. :smug:

[Rob!]

It's as peaceful as any religion that has extremists within it. Compare the 98 year old vicar on his bicycle taking in his wife's jams for the summer fete to a member of the KKK. It's a spectrum with pretty diverse ultimates at each end.

[Ninastar]

Is everyone who thinks Islam is a violent faith "hypocritical and illogical"?

Catholic priests don't abuse children in the name of Christianity, Muslim terrorist do kill in the name of Islam. There isn't much of an analogy there, I'm afraid.

People acting in the name of Islam are on a killing spree right now, across the world. And they don't go for the clean kill, they crucify, they dismember, they skin, they cut babies in half in front of their parents... this isn't movie stuff, this is really happening. I've been to Jordan, I've been to the camps... I've heard the sh1t that goes on and I've heard it first hand.

I'm not going to answer your suggestion that, so long as people are white, then that's okay because frankly it's beneath contempt.

Getting together for a weekend and denouncing violence isn't enough. Moderate Muslims need to step up more because it's mostly THEY who are being slaughtered. Those Muslims living the soft life in the West need to speak up for their brothers and sisters in UN camps right now their homes destroyed and their loved ones dead.

The "extreme minority" of which you speak runs into MILLIONS. And every time anyone suggests Islam is dangerous and violent we have post after post suggesting that the majority of Muslims are peaceful. Well... we know that. And we know that 30,000 Muslims "from across the world" getting together and denouncing violence is like me throwing stones into the sea because there are sharks in there.

one of the best posts I've ever read on here. It's so true.

People do not realise what kind of horrific things go on over there, what they do to families who have a different faith... There are things I've read that have made me physically sick. And I genuinely mean it, i had to stop listening to the interview... if you're squeamish then its best not to read on, but I read that they tie babies legs to each of their parents and pull the parents apart from each other until... you get the picture. And thats not even the worst thing I've heard.

Yes, people of all religions kill, but this is a problem that needs addressing. It's a terrifying thought what they can do if we don't put a stop to it.

[Kizzy]

Well when you simply "agree" after someone's post, people are to assume you agree with the full view if you aren't specifically agreeing with just a portion.

I'm not a mind reader. :smug:

Never assume anything :idc:

[Livia]

it needs to be eradicated from the UK and people "taught" evidence based logic, thought and reality if needs be. Why we tolerate any religion in 2016 is beyond me

and no town council should be allowed to build any mosque, in fact i would systematically close them one by one

or use them for youth clubs and craft fairs

Agreed, the idea that there is a 'house of god' is ridic.


Who knew you were only agreeing with a part of the post and disagreeing with the rest?

[VanessaFeltz.]

No
No
No
No
No

islam ruins lives..

[Kizzy]

Who knew you were only agreeing with a part of the post and disagreeing with the rest?

I have explained that query to marsh, I don't have to reiterate it for you.

[VanessaFeltz.]

Also anyone sitting at home in west thinking "oh we should be the nice ones and tolerate it" should live in middle east for couple of years then talk.

I was thinking the same couple of years ago.. But no they are sucking everything everyone has worked hard in society so THEY should suffer as well. And the muslims who are good people (which is like very low number but exists) shouldnt even be offended by my comment because they know i am right about those people.

[Livia]

I have explained that query to marsh, I don't have to reiterate it for you.

Really? I'm still at a loss to know how you meant the opposite of what you said. But whatever...

[Kizzy]

Really? I'm still at a loss to know how you meant the opposite of what you said. But whatever...

Again I have explained it once if you don't understand then it's not my issue, I don't have the time to be repeating myself constantly.

[kirklancaster]

Agreed, the idea that there is a 'house of god' is ridic.

I have NEVER witnessed views as contrary and confused issuing from the same member.

You state on other threads that you do not deny God or some omnipotent 'Spirit' - or words to that effect - then on here you decry as ridiculous any 'House of God'.

Ordinary, rational people in their millions regularly go to purpose built buildings called Cinemas - drawn there by their love of film.

Similar numbers regularly attend purposely designed and erected buildings called Sports Stadiums - drawn there by their love of Football, Rugby, Athletics, and other sports.

Similar numbers attend purposely built or adapted buildings called Theatres - drawn there by their love of drama.

Spiritual people who believe in God - and that includes Buddhists, Christians, Muslims, or Scientologists - LOVE God, so why is it 'ridiculous' that purpose built Churches, Mosques, Temples, and Meeting Houses, should be afforded to them where they can congregate to express and indulge that love?

Why would YOU or ANYONE else deny them that right?

Or does your much heralded and advertised Left leaning advocacy of Liberalism, and belief in Human Rights and Equality, only selectively apply to those doctrines which are a result of Cherry Picking that ideology?

Is NOT 'Religious Tolerance' a major part of Liberalist ideology?

In addition, there are SCIENTIFIC PRINCIPLES behind ALL religious 'HOUSES of GOD' - though just HOW ancient man understand them is another thread subject.

Mosques and Cathedrals are DESIGNED to maximise their acoustic value, and scientists have discovered that singing HAS a tranquilising yet energizing effect on Humans, so it both soothes the nerves and elevates the spirit.

Endorphins - hormones released by the body during singing - are known to be responsible for feelings of pleasure.

Oxytocin, another hormone released by the body during singing, has been proven to not only combat anxiety and stress, but to also stimulate feelings of trust and bonding between groups of singers - such as CHOIRS and CONGREGATIONS of ALL denominations CHANTING or SINGING HYMNS.

In addition to the many benefits which COMMUNAL singing or Chanting in Houses of God bestows on participants, there is a SCIENCE behind the EXTERNAL EFFECTS of such practises - one which involves VIBRATIONS - hence the particular payment to the detail of acoustics on the part of the architects of these 'Houses of God'.

The term, 'Good Vibrations' has its roots in Religious congregational chanting and singing, and in addition, vibration is a KEY part of the rituals of WORSHIP in MAXIMISING the participant's 'Bond With God', and though I have no desire or heart to expound on that here, it involves 'Mathematical Resonance' and the fact that 'the processes by which sound is turned into harmonious music are the same processes that govern all associating vibrations throughout the universe.'

Anyway, NO ONE has THE right to deny anyone else the RIGHT to believe in God or to WORSHIP that God in a House of God - no matter WHO that Worshipper may be, WHAT his Religion may be, or WHAT deity he worships.

In MY opinion of course.

[Tom4784]

Is everyone who thinks Islam is a violent faith "hypocritical and illogical"?

Catholic priests don't abuse children in the name of Christianity, Muslim terrorist do kill in the name of Islam. There isn't much of an analogy there, I'm afraid.

People acting in the name of Islam are on a killing spree right now, across the world. And they don't go for the clean kill, they crucify, they dismember, they skin, they cut babies in half in front of their parents... this isn't movie stuff, this is really happening. I've been to Jordan, I've been to the camps... I've heard the sh1t that goes on and I've heard it first hand.

I'm not going to answer your suggestion that, so long as people are white, then that's okay because frankly it's beneath contempt.

Getting together for a weekend and denouncing violence isn't enough. Moderate Muslims need to step up more because it's mostly THEY who are being slaughtered. Those Muslims living the soft life in the West need to speak up for their brothers and sisters in UN camps right now their homes destroyed and their loved ones dead.

The "extreme minority" of which you speak runs into MILLIONS. And every time anyone suggests Islam is dangerous and violent we have post after post suggesting that the majority of Muslims are peaceful. Well... we know that. And we know that 30,000 Muslims "from across the world" getting together and denouncing violence is like me throwing stones into the sea because there are sharks in there.

Christian terrorism is a thing, in fact there's more deaths in the US attributed to Christian Terrorism than there is Islamic Terrorism. Every religion has it's lunatics, to make out that Islam is worse is just plain ignorant especially how you're discounting the fact that millions of Muslims regularly oppose terrorism but that doesn't matter because you said so and that's apparently that.

How would you feel if someone made out that you needed to be apologetic for Israel's frankly shocking civilian casualty ratio against Palestinian civilians just because you're a jew? You'd be outraged and you'd be right to be since why should you be tarred with a brush just because of your religion? Why do you believe this is an acceptable attitude to have towards Muslims?

It's hypocritical and there's no way around it, as for suggesting there's millions of IS supporters, where's the evidence? More Muslims have been murdered by IS than any other denomination or race, Muslims have more reason to oppose IS than anyone else because they've suffered more at their hands.

What are Muslims meant to do if denouncing violence is not enough? What would you have them do? You seem to have all the answers so share with the class. I'm guessing the answer is that nothing will be ever be enough.

[arista]

"Christian terrorism is a thing, in fact there's more deaths in the US attributed to Christian Terrorism than there is Islamic"


but Dezzy 9/11
was Evil Muslim group
who destroyed the safe world

that number is above
local nutters

[Kizzy]

I have NEVER witnessed views as contrary and confused issuing from the same member.

You state on other threads that you do not deny God or some omnipotent 'Spirit' - or words to that effect - then on here you decry as ridiculous any 'House of God'.

Ordinary, rational people in their millions regularly go to purpose built buildings called Cinemas - drawn there by their love of film.

Similar numbers regularly attend purposely designed and erected buildings called Sports Stadiums - drawn there by their love of Football, Rugby, Athletics, and other sports.

Similar numbers attend purposely built or adapted buildings called Theatres - drawn there by their love of drama.

Spiritual people who believe in God - and that includes Buddhists, Christians, Muslims, or Scientologists - LOVE God, so why is it 'ridiculous' that purpose built Churches, Mosques, Temples, and Meeting Houses, should be afforded to them where they can congregate to express and indulge that love?

Why would YOU or ANYONE else deny them that right?

Or does your much heralded and advertised Left leaning advocacy of Liberalism, and belief in Human Rights and Equality, only selectively apply to those doctrines which are a result of Cherry Picking that ideology?

Is NOT 'Religious Tolerance' a major part of Liberalist ideology?

In addition, there are SCIENTIFIC PRINCIPLES behind ALL religious 'HOUSES of GOD' - though just HOW ancient man understand them is another thread subject.

Mosques and Cathedrals are DESIGNED to maximise their acoustic value, and scientists have discovered that singing HAS a tranquilising yet energizing effect on Humans, so it both soothes the nerves and elevates the spirit.

Endorphins - hormones released by the body during singing - are known to be responsible for feelings of pleasure.

Oxytocin, another hormone released by the body during singing, has been proven to not only combat anxiety and stress, but to also stimulate feelings of trust and bonding between groups of singers - such as CHOIRS and CONGREGATIONS of ALL denominations CHANTING or SINGING HYMNS.

In addition to the many benefits which COMMUNAL singing or Chanting in Houses of God bestows on participants, there is a SCIENCE behind the EXTERNAL EFFECTS of such practises - one which involves VIBRATIONS - hence the particular payment to the detail of acoustics on the part of the architects of these 'Houses of God'.

The term, 'Good Vibrations' has its roots in Religious congregational chanting and singing, and in addition, vibration is a KEY part of the rituals of WORSHIP in MAXIMISING the participant's 'Bond With God', and though I have no desire or heart to expound on that here, it involves 'Mathematical Resonance' and the fact that 'the processes by which sound is turned into harmonious music are the same processes that govern all associating vibrations throughout the universe.'

Anyway, NO ONE has THE right to deny anyone else the RIGHT to believe in God or to WORSHIP that God in a House of God - no matter WHO that Worshipper may be, WHAT his Religion may be, or WHAT deity he worships.

In MY opinion of course.

I didn't do that... of course.

I don't believe anyone or anywhere is any godlier than anyone or anywhere else is all.

[Marsh.]

Never assume anything :idc:

Make your points clearer Miss Kissy. :hmph:

[Kizzy]

Make your points clearer Miss Kissy. :hmph:

I'll be sure to include the disclaimer with the explanation and a note from my mum in the future Miss Marsha :smug:

[Marsh.]

I'll be sure to include the disclaimer with the explanation and a note from my mum in the future Miss Marsha :smug:

:clap1: Make sure she signs it.

[Livia]

Christian terrorism is a thing, in fact there's more deaths in the US attributed to Christian Terrorism than there is Islamic Terrorism. Every religion has it's lunatics, to make out that Islam is worse is just plain ignorant especially how you're discounting the fact that millions of Muslims regularly oppose terrorism but that doesn't matter because you said so and that's apparently that.

How would you feel if someone made out that you needed to be apologetic for Israel's frankly shocking civilian casualty ratio against Palestinian civilians just because you're a jew? You'd be outraged and you'd be right to be since why should you be tarred with a brush just because of your religion? Why do you believe this is an acceptable attitude to have towards Muslims?

It's hypocritical and there's no way around it, as for suggesting there's millions of IS supporters, where's the evidence? More Muslims have been murdered by IS than any other denomination or race, Muslims have more reason to oppose IS than anyone else because they've suffered more at their hands.

What are Muslims meant to do if denouncing violence is not enough? What would you have them do? You seem to have all the answers so share with the class. I'm guessing the answer is that nothing will be ever be enough.

Firstly, it's grossly unfair that you should drag Israel into the discussion simply because I'm Jewish. But as you have.... I am REGULARLY put into that position. I'm regularly put into that position on this forum.

I WANT Muslims to stand up and be counted. I don't want them to be the target of Islamophobia... especially as it is their brothers and sisters (their own term) who are being killed. But the fact remains that Islam is the number one biggest threat to the West at the moment. In the best-case scenario, there are millions of radicals in Islam. If that's not a dangerous position to be in, I don't know what is.

I don't have all the answers and it's a childish comment to say I think I have.

[Livia]

Again I have explained it once if you don't understand then it's not my issue, I don't have the time to be repeating myself constantly.

I'm amused that you think I don't understand you.

[Kizzy]

I'm amused that you think I don't understand you.

I'm amused you're amused.

[Livia]

...
... as for suggesting there's millions of IS supporters, where's the evidence? ....


There are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world and it is recognised by security services around the world that around 7% of them are radicalised and in some way supporting terrorism. You work it out.

Of course, I won't be asking you for actual evidence that I'm wrong.

[Livia]

I'm amused you're amused.

No you're not.

[user104658]

There are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world and it is recognised by security services around the world that around 7% of them are radicalised and in some way supporting terrorism. You work it out.

Of course, I won't be asking you for actual evidence that I'm wrong.

Well TS services have recognised that 95% of all humans are arseholes, which would presumably include Muslims. So if you do the maths, and assuming your 7% figure to be accurate, still only 7.4% of those Muslims are radicalised. That's pretty good going, to be honest.

[Marsh.]

Well TS services have recognised that 95% of all humans are arseholes, which would presumably include Muslims. So if you do the maths, and assuming your 7% figure to be accurate, still only 7.4% of those Muslims are radicalised. That's pretty good going, to be honest.

https://d12edgf4lwbh8j.cloudfront.net/photo/image/dorothy_side_stare.gif

[Tom4784]

Firstly, it's grossly unfair that you should drag Israel into the discussion simply because I'm Jewish. But as you have.... I am REGULARLY put into that position. I'm regularly put into that position on this forum.

I WANT Muslims to stand up and be counted. I don't want them to be the target of Islamophobia... especially as it is their brothers and sisters (their own term) who are being killed. But the fact remains that Islam is the number one biggest threat to the West at the moment. In the best-case scenario, there are millions of radicals in Islam. If that's not a dangerous position to be in, I don't know what is.

I don't have all the answers and it's a childish comment to say I think I have.

I think Israel is a fair comparison. If you are regularly put into that position then why are you so happy to do it to Muslims? You downplayed the opposition that Muslims put forth against extremism as 'getting together for the weekend' yet you shirked out of offering an alternative course of action. All these people can do is stand up and denounce the actions of extremists and they've sent that message out loud and clear every time an attack happens. It's not an islamic issue, it's an extremist issue.

[Kizzy]

I think Israel is a fair comparison. If you are regularly put into that position then why are you so happy to do it to Muslims? You downplayed the opposition that Muslims put forth against extremism as 'getting together for the weekend' yet you shirked out of offering an alternative course of action. All these people can do is stand up and denounce the actions of extremists and they've sent that message out loud and clear every time an attack happens. It's not an islamic issue, it's an extremist issue.

:clap1: :clap1: :clap1:

[user104658]

Firstly, it's grossly unfair that you should drag Israel into the discussion simply because I'm Jewish.

Moderate Muslims need to step up more because it's mostly THEY who are being slaughtered. Those Muslims living the soft life in the West need to speak up for their brothers and sisters in UN camps right now their homes destroyed and their loved ones dead.


Can you honestly not see the hypocrisy in these statements?

[Livia]

I think Israel is a fair comparison. If you are regularly put into that position then why are you so happy to do it to Muslims? You downplayed the opposition that Muslims put forth against extremism as 'getting together for the weekend' yet you shirked out of offering an alternative course of action. All these people can do is stand up and denounce the actions of extremists and they've sent that message out loud and clear every time an attack happens. It's not an islamic issue, it's an extremist issue.

No, my being a Jew is just a convenient excuse for your to point score in an argument where there is A LOT of grey area. As far as I know Jews are not attacking the West right now, they're not hacking up servicemen rolling trucks over little kids. So let's have one discussion at a time because if I wasn't a Jew you would never have brought it up.

I didn't shirk out of anything. Please don't use aggressive language in what is supposed to be a debate.

Muslims in the Middle East who have suffered at the hands of IS and other organisations are vociferous in their opposition to terrorism. In the West, Muslims don't have to be, because there are always people worrying that they might take offence at being asked.

[Livia]

I think Israel is a fair comparison. If you are regularly put into that position then why are you so happy to do it to Muslims? You downplayed the opposition that Muslims put forth against extremism as 'getting together for the weekend' yet you shirked out of offering an alternative course of action. All these people can do is stand up and denounce the actions of extremists and they've sent that message out loud and clear every time an attack happens. It's not an islamic issue, it's an extremist issue.

:clap1: :clap1: :clap1:

Can you honestly not see the hypocrisy in these statements?

Israel is not a terrorist organisation threatening the stability of this country.

Using this question to me is like asking a gay person to explain why Black Lives Matter are blocking the roads... because both groups have been oppressed.

[Livia]

This is interesting, usually it's just two on one.

[user104658]

Israel is not a terrorist organisation threatening the stability of this country.

Using this question to me is like asking a gay person to explain why Black Lives Matter are blocking the roads... because both groups have been oppressed.

No it isn't, it's saying that you can't be expected to speak for Israel / Jews "just because you are Jewish", whilst insisting in the same breath that moderate Muslims in the west should have to stand up against radical Islam... "just because they are Muslims".

It doesn't matter what the context is. If it's wrong to insist that someone speak on behalf of a group "just because they belong to that group" in one scenario, then it is wrong in any scenario.

[Tom4784]

No, my being a Jew is just a convenient excuse for your to point score in an argument where there is A LOT of grey area. As far as I know Jews are not attacking the West right now, they're not hacking up servicemen rolling trucks over little kids. So let's have one discussion at a time because if I wasn't a Jew you would never have brought it up.

I didn't shirk out of anything. Please don't use aggressive language in what is supposed to be a debate.

Muslims in the Middle East who have suffered at the hands of IS and other organisations are vociferous in their opposition to terrorism. In the West, Muslims don't have to be, because there are always people worrying that they might take offence at being asked.

If you actually bothered to read my post you'd have seen that I brought it up as an example which I followed up by saying that it wouldn't be fair to hold you accountable for the actions of Israel because of your faith so it's hypocritical to expect the same from muslims for extremist organisations that don't even represent Islam as a whole, even more so to downplay attempts at condemning the actions of IS.

Your last statement is completely and utterly ridiculous. To think that western muslims are placed on a pedestal beyond criticism is so ridiculous. Western muslims get plenty of stick and they are often made to feel like they have to shoulder the burden of a extreme minority's actions that do not represent them.

[Tom4784]

This is interesting, usually it's just two on one.

It's a discussion dear, not a cage match.

[VanessaFeltz.]

The thing is if you are not doing the action then you shouldnt feel defensive at all. "Western muslims" arent terorists but some of them (if not majority) support bashing gay people etc so those people who support that (bashing) are pieces of **** as well in my eyes, they are not diffrent from isis at all.

Vast majority of the muslims around the world are supporting making gay people's life hell so i am going to speak up about it, there is no need to stick up for the people that wont care about you at all.

But also i dont believe attacking muslims on street or bullying them just because other muslims are doing ****. I judge people by their own action not as a group. But there is an obvious truth out here that needs to be spoken.

Also israel did tons of **** to palestine for no reason and i wont tolerate that at all as well. I would expect better from a nation that suffered WW2 worse than any other country.

[Livia]

It's a discussion dear, not a cage match.

Don't call me dear, Dezzy. We're friends... please keep it civil.

[Livia]

If you actually bothered to read my post you'd have seen that I brought it up as an example which I followed up by saying that it wouldn't be fair to hold you accountable for the actions of Israel because of your faith so it's hypocritical to expect the same from muslims for extremist organisations that don't even represent Islam as a whole, even more so to downplay attempts at condemning the actions of IS.

Your last statement is completely and utterly ridiculous. To think that western muslims are placed on a pedestal beyond criticism is so ridiculous. Western muslims get plenty of stick and they are often made to feel like they have to shoulder the burden of a extreme minority's actions that do not represent them.

Western Muslims are put on a pedestal. Especially in this country. Everyone's afraid of upsetting them so their anti-gay, anti-all other religions, misogynistic stance is tolerated.

[user104658]

This is interesting, usually it's just two on one.

Not this again :shrug:. More than one person disagrees with you and all of a sudden it's "ganging up"? That's an easy cop out, I suppose. I personally will happily argue against the entire forum without complaint if they happen to disagree with me... as far as I'm aware it's not a "one in, one out" tag team system where you have to wait on the sidelines until the numbers even out :sleep:

[Livia]

Not this again :shrug:. More than one person disagrees with you and all of a sudden it's "ganging up"? That's an easy cop out, I suppose. I personally will happily argue against the entire forum without complaint if they happen to disagree with me... as far as I'm aware it's not a "one in, one out" tag team system where you have to wait on the sidelines until the numbers even out :sleep:

Surely not something I've said you disagree with TS.

Why don't you try to tick me off like a child? Or post one of your "comedy conversations".

Or better still, stick me on ignore and we won't have to annoy each other anymore.

[user104658]

Surely not something I've said you disagree with TS.

Why don't you try to tick me off like a child? Or post one of your "comedy conversations".

Or better still, stick me on ignore and we won't have to annoy each other anymore.

:hmph: If I don't debate seriously enough, everyone gets all huffy about me not respecting the sanctity of SD&N... if I start making actual posts again then the response is this? :shrug: pick a lane?

You don't annoy me and neither do your posts so I have no real reason to put you on ignore... I get plenty out of your rants, they soothe what remains of my little soul :hee:

[kirklancaster]

Not this again :shrug:. More than one person disagrees with you and all of a sudden it's "ganging up"? That's an easy cop out, I suppose. I personally will happily argue against the entire forum without complaint if they happen to disagree with me... as far as I'm aware it's not a "one in, one out" tag team system where you have to wait on the sidelines until the numbers even out :sleep:

I completely understand the point Livia is making. It is not just that "More than one person disagrees" with her, more that there are 'more than one person disagreeing with her' who actually COME ONTO the thread to do so, because - this Forum having degenerated from its previous excellence with ridicule and personal prejudices being more openly vented, a LOT of members who AGREE with Livia, either dare NOT come on the forum to air that agreement, or do not WANT to come onto the forum because, though not intimidated, they still cannot be bothered with the inevitable fallout.

My own take is a combination of both - in addition to the unshakeable realisation that these threads are totally FUTILE, because this is just one more of many forerunners, and despite the most comprehensive of 'quality' debating - by both sides - NOTHING is ever resolved, and NO ONE's mind is ever changed, and INVARIABLY, instead, hostility, anger, ill-will and resentment are the end results.

In MY Own Opinion, of course.

[Niamh.]

Can we all please stick to discussing the topic and not start accusing eachother of stuff, people disagree with eachother, it's the debate section jeez

[kirklancaster]

Israel is not a terrorist organisation threatening the stability of this country.

Using this question to me is like asking a gay person to explain why Black Lives Matter are blocking the roads... because both groups have been oppressed.

Israel is NOT a terrorist organisation threatening ANY country or ANY people.

WHY is it always treated as a GIVEN ABSOLUTE on any post - consciously or subconsciously - that Israel is THE cause of the woes in that part of the Middle East, and that Israel is the OPPRESSOR when it comes to the Palestinian issue?

Because - quite simply - Israel is NEITHER, and for anyone to assume or presume that it is, is oversimplifying a very, very, complex issue.

[VanessaFeltz.]

Israel is NOT a terrorist organisation threatening ANY country or ANY people.

WHY is it always treated as a GIVEN ABSOLUTE on any post - consciously or subconsciously - that Israel is THE cause of the woes in that part of the Middle East, and that Israel is the OPPRESSOR when it comes to the Palestinian issue?

Because - quite simply - Israel is NEITHER, and for anyone to assume or presume that it is, is oversimplifying a very, very, complex issue.

Because israel is THE cause of mess in palestine

[user104658]

My own take is a combination of both - in addition to the unshakeable realisation that these threads are totally FUTILE, because this is just one more of many forerunners, and despite the most comprehensive of 'quality' debating - by both sides - NOTHING is ever resolved, and NO ONE's mind is ever changed, and INVARIABLY, instead, hostility, anger, ill-will and resentment are the end results.

http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/Smileys/classic/nodding.gif

And a kewpie doll for the lady.


See. You do "get it" after all, Kirk.

[Crimson Dynamo]

lol at the poll

[Alf]

Submission

[Maru]

lol at the poll

I am the 7.23% hands up woo :laugh:

It gets brief mention in the headlines, very little or zero meaningful coverage in the mainstream media. Apparently that's because of "distance", but 5 deaths in Australia or the USA will get significantly more coverage than 1000 deaths in the Middle East.

You need to look at alternative / online news sources for anything else. The sad fact is, it just doesn't sell.

Funny that. Our national news coverage would have you only believe we exist... I just wondered if the the proximity that the Europeans have to the Middle Eastern region, with the complications of having open borders, may help to generate more of a daily news cycle.

You can watch the Al Jazeera news channel for Middle Eastern stuff.

I used to be able to. They're off my cable provider, but am reading they went bust (http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/22/media/al-jazeera-america-what-went-wrong/)

BBC America has some coverage.

I'd say it gets quite a bit of coverage, although I suspect there will be people here who disagree. I was pleased that recently the UN camps have been the subject of a couple of documentaries. We also have quite a bit of coverage of the refugee crisis. Honestly? I don't know what we'd all do without access to the Internet, it's so liberating to be able to get a variety of news from around the world.

Agreed.

It sounds like a lot of people here have very strong personal opinions. I haven't had an experience or a situation where I have any reason to create or have a strong viewpoint. I've only met a handful of Muslims (if that) and they were barely practicing. Most other details I've learned from school from history.

I know more and more people here (in the US) are anti-Muslim for many reasons (including the increasing airs of nationalism, of which I detest intensely). However, being from a mixed community myself I can't feel such suspicion and heavy disdain towards Islam because the practitioners happen to be practicing in a hypocritical manner. Some of that could be my own ignorance though as I don't have a deep enough understanding of the religion to know what it does and doesn't encourage explicitly.

I get what some are saying here about personal experiences and having been to those countries, but are we sure it's the religion that provokes the violence and not just that it gets enmeshed with the local population. I would think the religion is an easy gateway to victimizing groups and going after non-religious agendas as some have illustrated here eloquently about the religion needing reform. Though even if we went back even a few hundred years, we would see similar oppression (and violence) by Christians towards minority groups... it was society that reformed from black and white ways of thinking that ultimately changed that statistic.

I can read news about the violence online, but without having good context (especially experience based), it's hard for me to draw such critical conclusions. I don't know enough about Muslims or their way of worship to be a good judge of their beliefs and practices. Terrorist groups and oppressive political parties wouldn't necessarily be the best example due to the stronger, motivations involved. Though I certainly respect why some people would have strong views against Islam from personal experiences in those countries...

Having said that, there are major major humanitarian issue with regards to the oppression and violence occurring in the Middle Eastern region that is spilling over into other countries and may eventually find a stronger foothold in the future (as generations pass). However, when we collectively (as countries, not people's opinions) make it an anti-Muslim issue, we're only looking at the short-term and are more or less giving the opposition more ammunition to create animosity, dissent and ultimately grow numbers against the West.

There are some groups that are intensely anti-Muslim in the US too that I would not want to take the lead here. That too will cause more dissension and needless bloodshed as well which is likely more harmful to peace within the US than terrorism.

[Kizzy]

Is it enough yet?...

'Radical hate preacher Anjem Choudary has been found guilty of inviting support for Isis.

Muslims and Muslim organisations around the country have come out in support of the verdict, with many saying they have been waiting years for Choudary to be locked away.

“Although these men are no longer on the streets, we must recognise there are other extremists in Britain aggressively promoting an Islamist extreme worldview often on campus, communities and social media.

“We all have a responsibility in challenging this perverse ideology whether in mosques, universities or online. There is no place for such extremism in our society.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/anjem-choudary-british-muslims-react-conviction-extremism-a7196041.html

[bots]

Is it enough yet?...

'Radical hate preacher Anjem Choudary has been found guilty of inviting support for Isis.

Muslims and Muslim organisations around the country have come out in support of the verdict, with many saying they have been waiting years for Choudary to be locked away.

“Although these men are no longer on the streets, we must recognise there are other extremists in Britain aggressively promoting an Islamist extreme worldview often on campus, communities and social media.

“We all have a responsibility in challenging this perverse ideology whether in mosques, universities or online. There is no place for such extremism in our society.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/anjem-choudary-british-muslims-react-conviction-extremism-a7196041.html

words on their own are never enough

[Tom4784]

words on their own are never enough

What would you have them do? All any muslim civilians can do is denounce the actions of extremists. Do you expect them to arm themselves and fly to the Middle East to fight IS?

[bots]

What would you have them do? All any muslim civilians can do is denounce the actions of extremists. Do you expect them to arm themselves and fly to the Middle East to fight IS?

they can be active in the community stamping it out. It's in their interests to do so, and there has been scant sign of any real opposition. Words mean nothing, unless backed up by action. Its their religion, they need to own it.

[Tom4784]

they can be active in the community stamping it out. It's in their interests to do so, and there has been scant sign of any real opposition. Words mean nothing, unless backed up by action. Its their religion, they need to own it.

It's very easy to say that but what would you realistically do to stamp it out? 'words mean nothing' after all.

[user104658]

they can be active in the community stamping it out. It's in their interests to do so, and there has been scant sign of any real opposition. Words mean nothing, unless backed up by action. Its their religion, they need to own it.

So if a group of white supremacist hardcore Christians was to rise up on a street in England, abusing everyone around them and attacking people, threatening lives... In your opinion, little Betty Smith from Number 3 should tackle them, because she goes to church every Sunday. After all its her religion... She needs to own it?

[Tom4784]

So if a group of white supremacist hardcore Christians was to rise up on a street in England, abusing everyone around them and attacking people, threatening lives... In your opinion, little Betty Smith from Number 3 should tackle them, because she goes to church every Sunday. After all its her religion... She needs to own it?

Don't be silly, they're white so their actions would automatically be separated from their religion and they wouldn't be called terrorists either, they'd be classed as misunderstood individuals that were let down by society.

[Redway]

At its core, yeah. I'm no fan of Islam but there's a fine line between religion and extremism.

[bots]

It's very easy to say that but what would you realistically do to stamp it out? 'words mean nothing' after all.

you asked me what i would have them do and i told you ... The problem, ultimately cannot be resolved by those outside the religion, it must be resolved from within, and that means taking ownership of their own religion, defining boundaries clearly.

[user104658]

you asked me what i would have them do and i told you ... The problem, ultimately cannot be resolved by those outside the religion, it must be resolved from within, and that means taking ownership of their own religion, defining boundaries clearly.
Nah. Religions are slippery buggers. Start defining boundaries and those who have other agendas will simply declare themselves reformists and create a new sect with separate rules. Has happened countless times throughout history...

[Wizard.]

I chose the cop out option because, well, I agree with the statement "Most muslims are not terrorists, but most terrorists are muslim" and when the biggest global crisis in this day and age is claimed by people who say they belong to Islam - something has to be said about that.

[Wizard.]

I obviously have my own issues with Muslims, because I'm gay, and that's against their religion. Yes okay─ it's against Christianity too, but at least Christians keep themselves to themselves whereas many muslims have been vocal towards me about being gay.

[jaxie]

imo the IRA is not comparable here when you're talking about using Religion as a war tool. This was not why the IRA was formed, the IRA was formed because Ireland was taken over by Britain and then split in two and the IRA were fighting for the country back, not because they were trying to convert anyone to Catholicism or were doing it in the name of Catholicism, it really annoys me when British people try to pass it off as some sort of religious war. Yes most of the "Republicans" in the North are/were Catholics but that's just because Catholicism was the predominant Irish religion. There were actually Protestant members of the IRA too.

I'm not defending the IRA here btw especially in later years there was no going back but I hate the fact that alot of times British people are under the impression that the North was some sort of Religious war where the Catholics are trying to convert the Protestants or something when in Reality it was always a fight for our country back that you lot started by the way by invading us and beating our language out of us, etc etc

If it weren't for the IRA or the earlier version of it the whole of Ireland would still be part of Britain

I think that is generally an accurate assessment except that it's vastly simplified and missing out on about 500 years of history. The state made many mistakes and there were dreadful choices made and no support during the potato famine when many people starved to death. However you are missing out the fact that a lot of the problem was because there were two factions of people living in Northern Ireland with extremely strong opposing opinions and a lot of hate for each other. Most people call it Catholic v Protestant because that's a fairly easy thing to do but it was of course much more political and much less religious. IMO violence is always the wrong way and peace can achieve much greater things.

We can only learn from the mistakes of the past, we can't change what's been but we can hope never to repeat.

With regard to the OP question I would say that all religion causes wars and dispute because some those who ought to be focusing on the love of their deity get involved in a my god is bigger than your god thing and get carried away by misinterpreting their doctrine while others sit passively by. This has happened in most religions.

Most religion was forged in times of ignorance, lack of education, violence and extreme cruelty and it boggles me that anyone in 2016 would interpret and follow violent doctrine whatever the flavour of their worship is.