Life before birth

[Redway]

We all know how common it is to hear of life after death (NDE) stories but the reverse, life before birth, are virtually unknown. Since there’s a small number of people who can remember (in full or in part) their existence in the afterlife, (mostly small kids, who later forget because of the “veil of forgetfulness,” although some don’t lose the ability to remember), what do you think about pre-birth existence? Have you personally experienced it or have an idea of someone who has?

[Crimson Dynamo]

can you explain how you think this works?

[Niamh.]

I believe in neither pre nor post life

[Ashley.]

I don't think these young children are remembering their existence in a past life; they're merely remembering dreams they've had when they were younger and confusing them with reality.

[jaxie]

I don't believe in such experiences, either before life or after death. I think they are probably fantasies influenced by TV/beliefs/desire for afterlife etc.

[Niamh.]

I don't believe in such experiences, either before life or after death. I think they are probably fantasies influenced by TV/beliefs/desire for afterlife etc.

I think those near death experiences are probably your brain shutting down and doing strange things

[Redway]

I don't think these young children are remembering their existence in a past life; they're merely remembering dreams they've had when they were younger and confusing them with reality.

As I said earlier, there’s this supposed phenomenon called “veil of forgetfulness.” It’s meant to be a spiritual veil placed over a soul as it departs the afterlife to fuse with its earthly body to prevent remembrance of life in the afterlife (the hedonic pleasures of life in the afterlife in comparison to Earth, especially if said soul is going to have a tough life on Earth) + past lives (apparently more useful if a soul has had an unpleasant past life). Point is some kids don’t lose this memory as they grow up and are still able to retain memories of a prior existence well into adulthood.

I’m no quasi-spiritual wack but I’ve been looking into this recently (and the idea of reincarnation) and both have convincing theories.

[UserSince2005]

I know I was Winston Churchill in a past life and also Aristotle.

this is why i am so amazing and important in this present life.

[jaxie]

I think those near death experiences are probably your brain shutting down and doing strange things

I think science has more or less proved that the brain does something like that when you die.

[Crimson Dynamo]

As I said earlier, there’s this supposed phenomenon called “veil of forgetfulness.” It’s meant to be a spiritual veil placed over a soul as it departs the afterlife to fuse with its earthly body to prevent remembrance of life in the afterlife (the hedonic pleasures of life in the afterlife in comparison to Earth, especially if said soul is going to have a tough life on Earth) + past lives (apparently more useful if a soul has had an unpleasant past life). Point is some kids don’t lose this memory as they grow up and are still able to retain memories of a prior existence well into adulthood.

I’m no quasi-spiritual wack but I’ve been looking into this recently (and the idea of reincarnation) and both have convincing theories.

and both have convincing theories.

Can you show us these theories and where they have been published, I presume they have been peer reviewed?

Some links?

[Redway]

and both have convincing theories.

Can you show us these theories and where they have been published, I presume they have been peer reviewed?

Some links?

"Convincing" meaning "convincing to me." I'm not presenting a case or even saying I necessarily believe in it myself. I'm just interested in other people's opinions.

[Crimson Dynamo]

"Convincing" meaning "convincing to me." I'm not presenting a case or even saying I necessarily believe in it myself. I'm just interested in other people's opinions.

but you have not said how this can happen ?

before you are conceived you do not exist in any way shape or form so how?

Also the "soul" is just a religious term and is not real so the whole premise starts off incorrect?

What did you read that sounded in any way convincing?

[jennyjuniper]

I don't remember being in the womb, or know anyone who has. However I was told when small that the reason we have a dent between our nose and upper lip, is that an angel touches us there before we are born and says 'Ssshh, don't tell what you know'.

[kirklancaster]

I don't remember being in the womb, or know anyone who has. However I was told when small that the reason we have a dent between our nose and upper lip, is that an angel touches us there before we are born and says 'Ssshh, don't tell what you know'.

:laugh: That might just silence LT Jenny - But I doubt it. :laugh:

[Redway]

but you have not said how this can happen ?

before you are conceived you do not exist in any way shape or form so how?

Also the "soul" is just a religious term and is not real so the whole premise starts off incorrect?

What did you read that sounded in any way convincing?

Your mind's obviously already made up re. spiritual matters. You don't need me to convince you anything.

[Ashley.]

As I said earlier, there’s this supposed phenomenon called “veil of forgetfulness.” It’s meant to be a spiritual veil placed over a soul as it departs the afterlife to fuse with its earthly body to prevent remembrance of life in the afterlife (the hedonic pleasures of life in the afterlife in comparison to Earth, especially if said soul is going to have a tough life on Earth) + past lives (apparently more useful if a soul has had an unpleasant past life). Point is some kids don’t lose this memory as they grow up and are still able to retain memories of a prior existence well into adulthood.

I’m no quasi-spiritual wack but I’ve been looking into this recently (and the idea of reincarnation) and both have convincing theories.

Oh I know the general gist of it, I just don't believe it.

[the truth]

regression is an awesomely fascinating subject, totally under investigated. deep hypnosis will take you back to previous existences, the experiences and journeys are staggering

[Crimson Dynamo]

Your mind's obviously already made up re. spiritual matters. You don't need me to convince you anything.

oh I see

I have to "open my mind" and "think beyond the rational"


so there is no evidence, you dont know who on earth it would "work" but we are meant to discuss it?

how

[the truth]

oh I see

I have to "open my mind" and "think beyond the rational"


so there is no evidence, you dont know who on earth it would "work" but we are meant to discuss it?

how

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0SZp4zI0gU

[Redway]

Oh I know the general gist of it, I just don't believe it.

I'm not sure I do, either, but there's definitely a lot to be said for it.

Life Before Birth (A Children's Memoir) is an unbiased book that got me questioning the whole thing. A group of scientists in the states collected 2500 cases of children who could recall facts and events from years preceding their birth. I know stuff along those lines can happen with autistic savants but it made me wonder.

[the truth]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=porTdeBmejk

[the truth]

I'm not sure I do, either, but there's definitely a lot to be said for it.

Life Before Birth (A Children's Memoir) is an unbiased book that got me questioning the whole thing. A group of scientists in the states collected 2500 cases of children who could recall facts and events from years preceding their birth. I know stuff along those lines can happen with autistic savants but it made me wonder.

have you got a link to that book pls or the authors name

[Redway]

have you got a link to that book pls or the authors name

https://www.amazon.com/Life-Before-Childrens-Memories-Previous/dp/031237674X/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_2/177-3023846-5273844?ie=UTF8&refRID=1N62D3K91G727JR1XGW7

That. Life Before Life, it's called.

Whether or not you believe in the actual person of Jesus, he preached about all this, apparently, which the church would never let on, probably because it’s only read of in the Gnostic gospels. The original batch of gospels weren’t included in the original Bible but were corrupted and remixed by randomers who never saw “Jesus” in person, purely because the early church forefathers deliberately excluded them from the Bible because they didn’t control the masses. Hell fire is also an imaginary concept. Jesus preached reincarnation, karma, pre-birth experience, and stuff like that. By all means be a good person in this life but no-one’s rotting in hell-fire for eternity either way. That’s the one side of the afterlife what definitely doesn’t exist (as much as it would be nice to envision Hitler and rapists being there).

Christianity as it stands today may be somewhat corrupted. But original stuff that Jesus actually preached/taught does heavily feature the likes of reincarnation.

[arista]

Yes its there.



But soon
Robots will be
Working in places,
they are assembled
in China and South Korea
and being tested in Military
operations,
also in old folks homes, in Asia
right now.

[jet]

If anyone is interested in reading about people who have been brought back after being 'dead' for a short time the Raymond Moody books 'Life After Life' and 'The Light Beyond' are good reads. He has tirelessly researched hundreds of cases of what they experienced whilst 'dead' (or NDE's (near death experiences) and how their experiences made them totally convinced of an afterlife and how they all lost their fear of death. Most of these people had 'floated' out of their bodies, moved through a tunnel towards a 'light' from which emanated an overwhelming feeling of love and peace...but were brought back to life before they reached whatever was there...
and they didn't want to come back to this world...
One phenomenon which really interested me was how some people had died on the operating table, floated out of their bodies and out of the operating room, and when they were brought back to life were able to recount seeing their relatives in another room in the hospital, what they had been talking about word for word, what the doctors were telling them, what everyone had been doing etc to everyone's astonishment. How can that be explained? It's all very fascinating, I think.

[joeysteele]

Great to see you back Redway and posing another question to us.
I always have loved that from you.

I can only say I come to the table with I don't really know,I would not discount anything.
I have heard Children in my own family, only aged about 4, say some incredible things.
I have also come across things I certainly cannot answer happening as to life after death too.

The argument for near death experiences often is, the brain closing down at the end of life however it happens when people do not die at all, yet a lot is left there unexplained.

It is something as to creation and other things life before birth or life after death too, I do keep an open mind on.
There are many things we do not know and may never know.

There are many things science too cannot explain too.
I keep an open mind and glad I do.

Of course it is easy to dismiss as nonsense but I am not so sure, and would always try to listen to people who may have come across this with Children as to life before birth or the near death experiences occurrences too.

[Northern Monkey]

How does this work?Does the soul fly down from heaven and fly up the mothers vagina when she gets preggers?I can't think of any other way tbh.

[Jessica.]

I believe in neither pre nor post life
Same as this.

[Crimson Dynamo]

How does this work?Does the soul fly down from heaven and fly up the mothers vagina when she gets preggers?I can't think of any other way tbh.

:joker:

[Crimson Dynamo]

I never really know why people cant be amazed with real life and all the amazing things that natural selection, chance and time have given us. There is so much to learn about.Who has time for made up crap?

[Northern Monkey]

I never really know why people cant be amazed with real life and all the amazing things that natural selection, chance and time have given us. There is so much to learn about.Who has time for made up crap?

So true.You only have to look at the universe and origins of life to be amazed.That's just not enough for many people though.

[Northern Monkey]

So true.You only have to look at the universe and origins of life to be amazed.That's just not enough for many people though.

I mean someone tell me this is'nt frickin amazing...
pgDE2DOICuc
SfkhEm3LfvE

[kirklancaster]

If anyone is interested in reading about people who have been brought back after being 'dead' for a short time the Raymond Moody books 'Life After Life' and 'The Light Beyond' are good reads. He has tirelessly researched hundreds of cases of what they experienced whilst 'dead' (or NDE's (near death experiences) and how their experiences made them totally convinced of an afterlife and how they all lost their fear of death. Most of these people had 'floated' out of their bodies, moved through a tunnel towards a 'light' from which emanated an overwhelming feeling of love and peace...but were brought back to life before they reached whatever was there...
and they didn't want to come back to this world...
One phenomenon which really interested me was how some people had died on the operating table, floated out of their bodies and out of the operating room, and when they were brought back to life were able to recount seeing their relatives in another room in the hospital, what they had been talking about word for word, what the doctors were telling them, what everyone had been doing etc to everyone's astonishment. How can that be explained? It's all very fascinating, I think.

I have had a deep interest in this subject (among others) for decades and read similar books and articles, and watched dozens of documentaries on it.

There is just TOO much evidence - testimony from genuine honest ordinary people from all walks of life for it to be so easily 'pooh-hood' away.

[Ammi]

If anyone is interested in reading about people who have been brought back after being 'dead' for a short time the Raymond Moody books 'Life After Life' and 'The Light Beyond' are good reads. He has tirelessly researched hundreds of cases of what they experienced whilst 'dead' (or NDE's (near death experiences) and how their experiences made them totally convinced of an afterlife and how they all lost their fear of death. Most of these people had 'floated' out of their bodies, moved through a tunnel towards a 'light' from which emanated an overwhelming feeling of love and peace...but were brought back to life before they reached whatever was there...
and they didn't want to come back to this world...
One phenomenon which really interested me was how some people had died on the operating table, floated out of their bodies and out of the operating room, and when they were brought back to life were able to recount seeing their relatives in another room in the hospital, what they had been talking about word for word, what the doctors were telling them, what everyone had been doing etc to everyone's astonishment. How can that be explained? It's all very fascinating, I think.


..I'll try to have a read of your suggestions, jet...I don't know, I guess my thoughts on NDEs are that there could be explainable factors to the unexplainable', which are not there for everyone but are for some...I've read some stories as well because I had a bit of an experience myself once when I was having surgery.../the surgery was brain related so really that I think is a factor also with a coming together or 'brain altering' brief moments and parts of the brain/sub conscious becoming the consciousness and the sub conscious stores so much that we don't even realise, like a photographic memory etc and just so much more, like a central data bank..:laugh:...and it's also the thing with those moments of brain altering that a huge cocktail of drugs/anaesthesia is in our bodies as well/and factored in... so in surgery those things that are specific for some can lead (and possibly explain..)... some near death experiences of being so heightened and aware of a situation that it feels as though it's being experienced.../that 's probably a lot of rubbish though, my thoughts...it's definitely one of those things that is quite fascinating though...

[jennyjuniper]

:laugh: That might just silence LT Jenny - But I doubt it. :laugh:

I doubt it, I'm glad to say:laugh: I may not always agree with LT (although it's rare that I do disagree with him) but he speaks a heck of a lot of common sense.:wavey:

[thesheriff443]

I tend to think using logic, not looked at this topic
There is a large number of doctors psychiatrics that a persons life will be determended before the age of five.

[arista]

How does this work?Does the soul fly down from heaven and fly up the mothers vagina when she gets preggers?I can't think of any other way tbh.


NM
there is no Heaven
thats just films

[Northern Monkey]

I tend to think using logic, not looked at this topic
There is a large number of doctors psychiatrics that a persons life will be determended before the age of five.

Sounds interesting....But how?

[thesheriff443]

Sounds interesting....But how?

Its been a while since a doctor gave a talk on this subject, I'm sure there will be some material on the internet on it.

[Kizzy]

I do yes, My daughter at 2 used to cry when I called her charlotte insisting she was called rebecca :/

[kirklancaster]

I have witnessed my own children when they were very young babies, and now my granddaughter, having 'Nightmares'.

It is accepted by the experts that children can have 'Night Terrors' from the age of one month, and that by the age of one year old, they can have 'Nightmares'.

I do not agree with their opinion on the difference between these two 'experiences', but for the purpose of this post, I will accept that the two mean different things.

My point is this; a baby who is but a few month's old has no life experience, no 'memories', and most certainly - though they are 'conscious' - are bereft of knowledge and not even 'aware' of their environment in the true sense of the word.

What is it then, that can cause a two month's old baby to scream or cry out and wake it from a deep sleep and leave it upset and frightened with heart racing and often sweat soaked - all the symptoms of having experienced a Nightmare.

I do not accept for one moment the 'experts' view that such 'Night Terrors' are caused by a conflict between the body's 'Drive' to sleep and its 'Drive' to wake – a condition which they call a 'Confusional Event' – or are probably caused by 'disorientation due to incomplete awakening'.

In my opinion – and some notable scientists – the baby is experiencing a nightmare.

This being so, I ask; what event, person or entity can so frighten a baby who has no life experience or awareness, and therefore NONE of it's own stored MEMORIES of such things?

A baby is hardly reliving REAL memories – like the time it was chased through a town centre by a mob of knife-wielding louts, or remembering in a deep sleep cycle, the time that Great Aunt Maude nearly caught it stealing a fiver from her handbag.

Nor has it the ABILITY or MEANS to imagine any 'Nightmare Scenario', when even the most vividly and bizarrely convoluted of imagined nightmares are either dependent upon the memories of REAL direct experiences (or 'autobiographic episodic memories') or indirect acquired knowledge for their existence.

So here we have a baby whose mind is a virtual 'Blank Canvas' experiencing SOMETHING which gives it nightmares.

There can be only be two possible explanations for such an enigma – Reincarnation or perhaps the baby's mind is unconsciously accessing SOMEONE ELSE'S memories.

As crazy as both the above may seem to my dear friend LT and some others on here, the evidence for Reincarnation is now so extensive that it cannot be easily dismissed, and there is also a growing field of scientific thought – which experimental conclusions support – that actual Memory does not simply reside within the brain, but is, instead, rather stored OUTSIDE of it in some type of 'electro magnetic field'.

Extensive research into 'Memory' has been carried out independently by numerous scientists over many decades, and some of the findings are surprising;

Celebrated psychologist and behaviourist,*Karl Lashley – one of the world's most respected 'Brain' experts – carried out an experiment on 'Lab Rats' in which he first taught the rats tricks before removing half of their brains.

The rats REMEMBERED the tricks.

Lashley then used another set of rats which he taught the same tricks to before removing the opposite hemisphere of the brain to the first set.

The rats STILL remembered the tricks.

It seems, that if memory is truly housed within the brain, then where exactly – when memory is still extant when the complete brain had been removed – is a great mystery.

I first came across controversial Biologist, Researcher, and Author, Rupert Sheldrake when I was a young 'dreamer' searching religion and philosophy for 'answers' to the 'meaning of life', and he actually proposed certain theories which not only made sense to me, but also 'crystallised' some of my own 'scrambed' thoughts.

Sheldrake has a theory – which he calls 'Morphic Resonance' – that memory need not be stored specifically or exclusively within the brain, but rather in a type of 'Morphogenic Field' (similar to Kirlian Light Auras) which surrounds an organism (the body AND brain in humans) and that each individual member of a species (not just humans or animal life) inherits a 'collective' memory from 'past members' of the species' who then adds his contribution to this collective memory through living his life, which is then 'drawn upon' by other members of the species in the future.

I have neither the time or inclination to expound upon this here, but I recommend giving Sheldrake a good read for those interested in this fascinating subject.

Anyway, Sheldrake's theories loosely parallel my own thoughts, and goes some way to explaining why people have very real 'memories' which are NOT their own, as well as the phenomena of 'ghosts' – if you think about it.

It can also explain why babies with no 'episodic memories' of their own can have nightmares.

Reincarnation is another post.

[Ammi]

...(my own thoughts and the quick version..)...is that it's to do with the transcending into sleep cycles and for whatever reason a baby struggling with that...we wouldn't know if they were having a nightmare or night terror as such because they're unable to communicate and convey... but just that they're displaying symptoms/actions of...obviously small babies can't communicate/can't consciously associate etc with stresses..but they do feel stress/they do feel confusion, they do feel discomforts etc so that transfers according to the situation and if they are in certain parts of sleep cycles and feeling a type of confusion/emotional stress..?.../that would convey in the appearance of a night terror/nightmare etc...anyways I have no knowledge of these things but those would be my thoughts...

[Johnnyuk123]

Great post Kirk! Good to have you back online. :)
I have a simple solution to the baby having nightmares.
You didn't accidentally let her see my avatar just before putting her to bed?:joker:

[Kazanne]

Great to see you back Redway and posing another question to us.
I always have loved that from you.

I can only say I come to the table with I don't really know,I would not discount anything.
I have heard Children in my own family, only aged about 4, say some incredible things.
I have also come across things I certainly cannot answer happening as to life after death too.

The argument for near death experiences often is, the brain closing down at the end of life however it happens when people do not die at all, yet a lot is left there unexplained.

It is something as to creation and other things life before birth or life after death too, I do keep an open mind on.
There are many things we do not know and may never know.

There are many things science too cannot explain too.
I keep an open mind and glad I do.

Of course it is easy to dismiss as nonsense but I am not so sure, and would always try to listen to people who may have come across this with Children as to life before birth or the near death experiences occurrences too.

:clap1::clap1: I love debates like this but don't think Tibb is the place for it as it's nice to discuss it without feeling like a simpleton,I find it fascinating stuff and would never dismiss anything just because I don't understand it or do not want to.Keep that open mind Joey it's a good thing.

[Ammi]

:clap1::clap1: I love debates like this but don't think Tibb is the place for it as it's nice to discuss it without feeling like a simpleton,I find it fascinating stuff and would never dismiss anything just because I don't understand it or do not want to.Keep that open mind Joey it's a good thing.

...(I think for the most part, Kaz..)...people are interested in all thoughts on these things, whatever their own thoughts are..and most would be very interested in your views as well...:hug:...

[joeysteele]

:clap1::clap1: I love debates like this but don't think Tibb is the place for it as it's nice to discuss it without feeling like a simpleton,I find it fascinating stuff and would never dismiss anything just because I don't understand it or do not want to.Keep that open mind Joey it's a good thing.

We have touched on this in threads in the past Kazanne, forget what you may be made to feel, no one should think themselves less valid to comment when they have a strong view on the subject.

Too many things have happened I cannot explain and as you see others hold that view as well.

I try to not close my mind to anything, it often helps steer me to thinking differently on issues after what I hear from others or it helps reinforce my original view.
Like Ammi,I agree, it would be good to hear your take on this, so whenever you may want to, don't be put off by anything,you know what you feel, what you have come across just as and probably a great many others have too.

[Jamie89]

We have touched on this in threads in the past Kazanne, forget what you may be made to feel, no one should think themselves less valid to comment when they have a strong view on the subject.

Too many things have happened I cannot explain and as you see others hold that view as well.

I try to not close my mind to anything, it often helps steer me to thinking differently on issues after what I hear from others or it helps reinforce my original view.
Like Ammi,I agree, it would be good to hear your take on this, so whenever you may want to, don't be put off by anything,you know what you feel, what you have come across just as and probably a great many others have too.

:clap2:

I've never really thought about this subject but it's been really interesting to read. I probably fall more in line with being a non believer but like you said Joey it's important to still keep an open mind, that's how we manage to expand our scientific knowledge, by thinking outside of what we know/think we know. Kirk's rat experiment was really interesting for example, and just goes to show there's so much we can't understand yet, so I don't see how anything can be written off as false even if someone doesn't believe it personally. It's kind of limiting to only consider things that have already been proved by science... it's a funny logic because if scientists themselves did that we'd never progress our understanding of anything [emoji23]

[Northern Monkey]

:clap1::clap1: I love debates like this but don't think Tibb is the place for it as it's nice to discuss it without feeling like a simpleton,I find it fascinating stuff and would never dismiss anything just because I don't understand it or do not want to.Keep that open mind Joey it's a good thing.

I don't believe in life before birth.However i respect your right to believe it and your opinion is just as valid as anyones.I don't think you're a 'simpleton':laugh:

Just as i'm not religious however i find religion very interesting.I'm reading The Bible right now.It's a fascinating insight into life in ancient times.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Here is a short and succinct summary of what happens after you die and touches on before you are born

Ndj5KjKyr3E

This chap is an American astrophysicist, cosmologist, author, and science communicator. Since 1996, he has been the Frederick P. Rose Director of the Hayden Planetarium at the Rose Center for Earth and Space in New York City. The center is part of the American Museum of Natural History, where Tyson founded the Department of Astrophysics in 1997 and has been a research associate in the department since 2003.

[Jessica.]

I hate that I can't even get involved in threads like this, the subject interests me, but everyone will call me a bully for saying it doesn't exist instead of there being mutual respect for both believers and non believers. I've already seen some of that attitude after reading the thread, so I guess I can't get involved. :joker:

[Niamh.]

Here is a short and succinct summary of what happens after you die and touches on before you are born

Ndj5KjKyr3E

This chap is an American astrophysicist, cosmologist, author, and science communicator. Since 1996, he has been the Frederick P. Rose Director of the Hayden Planetarium at the Rose Center for Earth and Space in New York City. The center is part of the American Museum of Natural History, where Tyson founded the Department of Astrophysics in 1997 and has been a research associate in the department since 2003.

Great video, he seems like a really interesting man

[Redway]

I have witnessed my own children when they were very young babies, and now my granddaughter, having 'Nightmares'.

It is accepted by the experts that children can have 'Night Terrors' from the age of one month, and that by the age of one year old, they can have 'Nightmares'.

I do not agree with their opinion on the difference between these two 'experiences', but for the purpose of this post, I will accept that the two mean different things.

My point is this; a baby who is but a few month's old has no life experience, no 'memories', and most certainly - though they are 'conscious' - are bereft of knowledge and not even 'aware' of their environment in the true sense of the word.

What is it then, that can cause a two month's old baby to scream or cry out and wake it from a deep sleep and leave it upset and frightened with heart racing and often sweat soaked - all the symptoms of having experienced a Nightmare.

I do not accept for one moment the 'experts' view that such 'Night Terrors' are caused by a conflict between the body's 'Drive' to sleep and its 'Drive' to wake – a condition which they call a 'Confusional Event' – or are probably caused by 'disorientation due to incomplete awakening'.

In my opinion – and some notable scientists – the baby is experiencing a nightmare.

This being so, I ask; what event, person or entity can so frighten a baby who has no life experience or awareness, and therefore NONE of it's own stored MEMORIES of such things?

A baby is hardly reliving REAL memories – like the time it was chased through a town centre by a mob of knife-wielding louts, or remembering in a deep sleep cycle, the time that Great Aunt Maude nearly caught it stealing a fiver from her handbag.

Nor has it the ABILITY or MEANS to imagine any 'Nightmare Scenario', when even the most vividly and bizarrely convoluted of imagined nightmares are either dependent upon the memories of REAL direct experiences (or 'autobiographic episodic memories') or indirect acquired knowledge for their existence.

So here we have a baby whose mind is a virtual 'Blank Canvas' experiencing SOMETHING which gives it nightmares.

There can be only be two possible explanations for such an enigma – Reincarnation or perhaps the baby's mind is unconsciously accessing SOMEONE ELSE'S memories.

As crazy as both the above may seem to my dear friend LT and some others on here, the evidence for Reincarnation is now so extensive that it cannot be easily dismissed, and there is also a growing field of scientific thought – which experimental conclusions support – that actual Memory does not simply reside within the brain, but is, instead, rather stored OUTSIDE of it in some type of 'electro magnetic field'.

Extensive research into 'Memory' has been carried out independently by numerous scientists over many decades, and some of the findings are surprising;

Celebrated psychologist and behaviourist,*Karl Lashley – one of the world's most respected 'Brain' experts – carried out an experiment on 'Lab Rats' in which he first taught the rats tricks before removing half of their brains.

The rats REMEMBERED the tricks.

Lashley then used another set of rats which he taught the same tricks to before removing the opposite hemisphere of the brain to the first set.

The rats STILL remembered the tricks.

It seems, that if memory is truly housed within the brain, then where exactly – when memory is still extant when the complete brain had been removed – is a great mystery.

I first came across controversial Biologist, Researcher, and Author, Rupert Sheldrake when I was a young 'dreamer' searching religion and philosophy for 'answers' to the 'meaning of life', and he actually proposed certain theories which not only made sense to me, but also 'crystallised' some of my own 'scrambed' thoughts.

Sheldrake has a theory – which he calls 'Morphic Resonance' – that memory need not be stored specifically or exclusively within the brain, but rather in a type of 'Morphogenic Field' (similar to Kirlian Light Auras) which surrounds an organism (the body AND brain in humans) and that each individual member of a species (not just humans or animal life) inherits a 'collective' memory from 'past members' of the species' who then adds his contribution to this collective memory through living his life, which is then 'drawn upon' by other members of the species in the future.

I have neither the time or inclination to expound upon this here, but I recommend giving Sheldrake a good read for those interested in this fascinating subject.

Anyway, Sheldrake's theories loosely parallel my own thoughts, and goes some way to explaining why people have very real 'memories' which are NOT their own, as well as the phenomena of 'ghosts' – if you think about it.

It can also explain why babies with no 'episodic memories' of their own can have nightmares.

Reincarnation is another post.

I just took a little stroll down memory-lane over the weekend and looked back at some of my old threads and I’ve got to say this post especially really struck me. I don’t know if you’re still an active member on here but if you are would you mind expounding on reincarnation at some point? I’d be very interested to hear your views on that.

[user104658]

In terms of the rat hemispheres experiment, in order to understand why they still remembered the tricks all you really need is an understanding of how RAID redundancies work for things like web servers.

Web servers have multiple hard drives that work in unison. All of the data is on both drives. If one drive dies or is removed completely, no data is lost because there's an exact copy on the twinned drive (or however many other drives are in the array).

So why could the rats remember no matter which half of the brain was removed? "Where" is the memory stored? Answer is simple enough: there's probably a copy of the memory on each hemisphere.

[user104658]

One thing that IS fascinating in terms of "past lives" though and something that we still know very, very little about is genetic memory which is quite fascinating really. Nothing is born a blank slate; even humans (pretty useless at birth), we still reflexively know how to breathe, swallow, seek out a nipple... even swim.

You can see it VERY clearly in other animals - many mammals can walk from birth, monkeys know how to cling to their parent. Spiders "know" how to construct extremely intricate webs, no practice required.

So there ARE elements of memory that are coded directly into genetic code before there's any physical structure at all to hold them, there's no question about that. How it works? Still mostly an unknown. IN THEORY could living memories be inherited from an ancestor? Who knows. It wouldn't be reincarnation of course, the memories wouldn't be from someone you "were" after they died, they'd be a copy of who they were at the point of passing on their DNA, if such things are possible at all. That I suppose would be indistinguishable from actually "being that person in another life". You might just be borrowing a snippet of a great-great-great-grandparents memory.

[Zizu]

We have a granddaughter who’s just six years old and has been adamant for the last 3 years that she was born and lived in Ireland when she was younger ( she hasn’t of course )


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[Crimson Dynamo]

#cod science

[Redway]

#cod science

Yeah, okay. Whatever floats your boat.

[Redway]

One thing that IS fascinating in terms of "past lives" though and something that we still know very, very little about is genetic memory which is quite fascinating really. Nothing is born a blank slate; even humans (pretty useless at birth), we still reflexively know how to breathe, swallow, seek out a nipple... even swim.

You can see it VERY clearly in other animals - many mammals can walk from birth, monkeys know how to cling to their parent. Spiders "know" how to construct extremely intricate webs, no practice required.

So there ARE elements of memory that are coded directly into genetic code before there's any physical structure at all to hold them, there's no question about that. How it works? Still mostly an unknown. IN THEORY could living memories be inherited from an ancestor? Who knows. It wouldn't be reincarnation of course, the memories wouldn't be from someone you "were" after they died, they'd be a copy of who they were at the point of passing on their DNA, if such things are possible at all. That I suppose would be indistinguishable from actually "being that person in another life". You might just be borrowing a snippet of a great-great-great-grandparents memory.

Listen, Soldier Boy (your posts are very interesting, by the way), do we know you from somewhere?

[Redway]

^
Pardon my ignorance but are you actually Toy Soldier 2.0 and if so, what happened to your original account?

[The Slim Reaper]

One of those rare occasions i agree with LT. Not even nightmares can change my mind on this :laugh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yeah, okay. Whatever floats your boat.

boats float due to science

they dont sink and come back as Louis the 14th

[Crimson Dynamo]

One of those rare occasions i agree with LT. Not even nightmares can change my mind on this :laugh:

https://media.tenor.com/lNMyjjSWLYcAAAAM/my-man-my-man-denzel.gif

[Redway]

boats float due to science

they dont sink and come back as Louis the 14th

Wow what a buoyantly-versed chap you are.

[Redway]

We have a granddaughter who’s just six years old and has been adamant for the last 3 years that she was born and lived in Ireland when she was younger ( she hasn’t of course )


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Does anyone from either line of her family have Irish blood?

[Zizu]

Does anyone from either line of her family have Irish blood?


Yep half Italian / Irish father but he ‘identifies’ as Italian as do all his family .. the Irish aspect is rarely mentioned ..

Strange … as she will see something like a landscape on telly and say ‘that reminds me of when I lived in Ireland … or eat something and say a similar thing ..

I should reiterate that I don’t believe any kind of hocus pocus .. UFOs or conspiracy theories ..


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[bots]

The brain is something i've had to learn a lot more about over the last year and we are literally scratching the surface in terms of understanding how it operates.

The thing is, if you have a false memory, you have no method of distinguishing it from any other memory that you have, its just a memory that happens to be wrong. False memories can be triggered by a variety of things and you would never know that you had it because you 100% believe it happened. It's true that our brains have a certain capacity for checks and balances so that we can deduce by logic that something may not be correct, but we can never know for sure :laugh:

[MTVN]

One thing that IS fascinating in terms of "past lives" though and something that we still know very, very little about is genetic memory which is quite fascinating really. Nothing is born a blank slate; even humans (pretty useless at birth), we still reflexively know how to breathe, swallow, seek out a nipple... even swim.

You can see it VERY clearly in other animals - many mammals can walk from birth, monkeys know how to cling to their parent. Spiders "know" how to construct extremely intricate webs, no practice required.

So there ARE elements of memory that are coded directly into genetic code before there's any physical structure at all to hold them, there's no question about that. How it works? Still mostly an unknown. IN THEORY could living memories be inherited from an ancestor? Who knows. It wouldn't be reincarnation of course, the memories wouldn't be from someone you "were" after they died, they'd be a copy of who they were at the point of passing on their DNA, if such things are possible at all. That I suppose would be indistinguishable from actually "being that person in another life". You might just be borrowing a snippet of a great-great-great-grandparents memory.

Interesting stuff, a good argument for religion perhaps

[Crimson Dynamo]

Development evolving:The origins and meanings of instinct

Every complex behavior challenges us to identify its origins. How do birds know
to migrate south for the winter? How do border collies know to herd sheep?
How do sea turtles find their way back home to the beach on which they
hatched?

for example:
Gilbert Gottlieb spent much of his career investigating another form of
imprinting— auditory imprinting—in which newly hatched chicks and
ducklings are attracted to the mother's call8. Because the behavior of
hatchlings seemed to be expressed without any obvious experience with the
mother or her call, this adaptive behavior was thought to be an instinct.
However, Gottlieb pursued this question in a way that no one else had before
him by asking whether embryos obtain critical experiences while still in the
egg. Amazingly, he found that they do: Embryos vocalize from within the
egg, and these vocalizations shape the development of the auditory system
in a way that is critical for their post-hatching attraction to the mother's call.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5182125/#:~:text=DNA%20plays%20a%20critical%20role,and%20b iological%20influences7%E2%80%939.

[The Slim Reaper]

There are also tens of millions of years of evolution to take into account, so even a function like hiccups is believed to be from a time when our ancestors had gills.The answers will be found in biology, not metaphysics.

[Zizu]

The brain is something i've had to learn a lot more about over the last year and we are literally scratching the surface in terms of understanding how it operates.

The thing is, if you have a false memory, you have no method of distinguishing it from any other memory that you have, its just a memory that happens to be wrong. False memories can be triggered by a variety of things and you would never know that you had it because you 100% believe it happened. It's true that our brains have a certain capacity for checks and balances so that we can deduce by logic that something may not be correct, but we can never know for sure :laugh:


The odd thing is she has no concept of what a country is or a what a different country is ..

Very strange


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[Oliver_W]

Before birth?

Blud life begins at inception x

[Vanessa]

Last night I watched My dead body.on channel 4.
It was a lot to take in and it made me think about life in general.
The brain really is so complex, we still don't know everything about it.

[The Slim Reaper]

Last night I watched My dead body.on channel 4.
It was a lot to take in and it made me think about life in general.
The brain really is so complex, we still don't know everything about it.

Bruh

https://64.media.tumblr.com/4ad89ba6f08928f305ccf1dbb4ff7577/6d70aaddbfd77ebf-b0/s400x600/4adda8d7f23de4a30fd7d94372c55a53e5259788.gifv

[Niamh.]

Bruh

https://64.media.tumblr.com/4ad89ba6f08928f305ccf1dbb4ff7577/6d70aaddbfd77ebf-b0/s400x600/4adda8d7f23de4a30fd7d94372c55a53e5259788.gifv

Love that movie :flutter:

[Oliver_W]

Love that movie :flutter:

I don't recognise it :(

[Vanessa]

I don't recognise it :(

True Romance.

[Niamh.]

I don't recognise it :(

True Romance, it was written by Quentin Tarantino but he sold it so he could make Reservoir Dogs, it's one of my favourites of his films actually (even though he didn't direct) Highly recommend if you have watched it

[Vanessa]

True Romance, it was written by Quentin Tarantino but he sold it so he could make Reservoir Dogs, it's one of my favourites of his films actually (even though he didn't direct) Highly recommend if you have watched it

Love Reservoir dogs as well.

[Niamh.]

Love Reservoir dogs as well.

It's one of my least favourites of his movies, I think True Romance was a lot better, probably a lot more money spent on making that though, it had a brilliant cast too

[Zizu]

Before birth?

Blud life begins at inception x


That’s my take on the situation as well


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[Redway]

Before birth?

Blud life begins at inception x

Definitively pro-choice, then, are you? (Which is fair-game.)

[The Slim Reaper]

Life begins at

https://media.tenor.com/VB72MwFAx4wAAAAC/inception-kukkendare.gif

[Oliver_W]

Definitively pro-choice, then, are you? (Which is fair-game.)
I don't have a cast-iron stance on that - I lean towards being against abortion, simply because I see it as killing babies. But I know it isn't always that simple, et cetera et cetera.

Life begins at

https://media.tenor.com/VB72MwFAx4wAAAAC/inception-kukkendare.gif

Life begins at Shutter Island ?!

[Redway]

I don't have a cast-iron stance on that - I lean towards being against abortion, simply because I see it as killing babies. But I know it isn't always that simple, et cetera et cetera.



Life begins at Shutter Island ?!

I don’t agree with you on many things, Oliver, but I’m with you on abortion. Of course it’s always the woman’s choice (her body) and that’s absolutely valid but I do see it as ultimate lost potential and I just think it’s quite unfortunate when things are stacked in alignment of aborting a potential life. I’m ultimately pro-choice in technicality because it’s not my choice to make and isn’t ever going to be directly my business but it’s one of those things.

[Redway]

That and the fact that babies are just so frigging adorable I’d hate to be fatally-averse to bringing one into existence once it’s in the works unless it was the product of rape or something like that. But like I said it’s not something that would ever be my choice so it is what it is.

[Oliver_W]

Of course it’s always the woman’s choice (her body)
See, where my brain goes to on that point is, what about the child's body and choice?

I’m ultimately pro-choice in technicality because it’s not my choice to make and isn’t ever going to be directly my business but it’s one of those things.
That's kind of what holds me back from fully committing to a position.

[Niamh.]

See, where my brain goes to on that point is, what about the child's body and choice?


That's kind of what holds me back from fully committing to a position.

An embryo's brain doesn't start to develop until around week 5-7. "Higher brain" structures don't appear till between weeks 12-16, so I'd be OK with abortion until around week 12ish.

[Oliver_W]

An embryo's brain doesn't start to develop until around week 5-7. "Higher brain" structures don't appear till between weeks 12-16, so I'd be OK with abortion until around week 12ish.

So let's just kill people who lose higher brain function? Unless they're projected to regain it in a few weeks?

[Niamh.]

So let's just kill people who lose higher brain function? Unless they're projected to regain it in a few weeks?

I didn't say that at all.

I said an embryo doesn't develop higher brain function until then which is the start of their consciousness I guess so imo before that they're just a bunch of cells. I said nothing about people who are already born. Why are you saying I did?