German Primary School Kids Forced To Chant ‘Allahu Akbar’ in Muslim Prayer

[kirklancaster]

IS THIS 'USURPATION' OR 'INTEGRATION'?

Fury as German primary school ‘forces’ children to chant ‘Allahu Akbar’ in Muslim prayer

PUPILS at a primary school were forced to chant "Allahu Akhbar" and “there is no God but Allah", an appalled father has claimed.

The father of the pupil at the girl's primary school in German ski resort Garmisch-Partenkirchen discovered that his daughter had been forced to learn the Islamic prayer when he discovered a handout she had been given.

He claimed she had been "forced" by teachers to memorise the Islamic chants and forwarded the handout to Austrian news service unsertirol24.

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/78/590x/Merkel-koran-725651.jpg

The handout read: "Oh Allah, how perfect you are and praise be to you. Blessed is your name, and exalted is your majesty. There is no God but you."

It had been given to the girl during a lesson in "ethics" at the Bavarian school.

Headteacher Gisela Herl did not confirm the incident when questioned, but said the school would issue a written statement detailing its position in the coming week.

The incident comes just weeks after parents complained to German newspaper Hessian Niedersächsische Allgemeine (HNA) that their children's nursery was refusing to acknowledge "Christmas rituals" to accommodate the "diverse cultures" of other pupils.

The Sara Nussbaum House daycare centre in Kassel refused to put up a Christmas tree, tell Christmas stories or celebrate Christmas in general because it said only a minority of pupils were Christian.

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/78/590x/secondary/migrants-698664.jpg
Child migrants are said to outnumber natives at many schools

A spokesman for Kassel explained: “There will be no Christmas celebrations, in the strictest sense. Because the majority of children at this kindergarten are not Christian the festival will not be celebrated in the way that it is at other schools.”

Migrants now outnumber native children at many schools in Germany as the country has been inundated with migrants in recent years.

More than one million migrants are estimated to have arrived in Germany during the last year alone.

The Federal Office for Migration and Refugees estimates that another 200,000 people will apply for asylum in 2017.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/725651/germany-migrants-allahu-akbar-muslim-christmas-islam-primary-school-pupils-angela-merkel?utm_source=traffic.outbrain&utm_medium=traffic.outbrain&utm_term=traffic.outbrain&utm_content=traffic.outbrain&utm_campaign=traffic.outbrain

[Brillopad]

IS THIS 'USURPATION' OR 'INTEGRATION'?

Fury as German primary school ‘forces’ children to chant ‘Allahu Akbar’ in Muslim prayer

PUPILS at a primary school were forced to chant "Allahu Akhbar" and “there is no God but Allah", an appalled father has claimed.

The father of the pupil at the girl's primary school in German ski resort Garmisch-Partenkirchen discovered that his daughter had been forced to learn the Islamic prayer when he discovered a handout she had been given.

He claimed she had been "forced" by teachers to memorise the Islamic chants and forwarded the handout to Austrian news service unsertirol24.

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/78/590x/Merkel-koran-725651.jpg

The handout read: "Oh Allah, how perfect you are and praise be to you. Blessed is your name, and exalted is your majesty. There is no God but you."

It had been given to the girl during a lesson in "ethics" at the Bavarian school.

Headteacher Gisela Herl did not confirm the incident when questioned, but said the school would issue a written statement detailing its position in the coming week.

The incident comes just weeks after parents complained to German newspaper Hessian Niedersächsische Allgemeine (HNA) that their children's nursery was refusing to acknowledge "Christmas rituals" to accommodate the "diverse cultures" of other pupils.

The Sara Nussbaum House daycare centre in Kassel refused to put up a Christmas tree, tell Christmas stories or celebrate Christmas in general because it said only a minority of pupils were Christian.

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/78/590x/secondary/migrants-698664.jpg
Child migrants are said to outnumber natives at many schools

A spokesman for Kassel explained: “There will be no Christmas celebrations, in the strictest sense. Because the majority of children at this kindergarten are not Christian the festival will not be celebrated in the way that it is at other schools.”

Migrants now outnumber native children at many schools in Germany as the country has been inundated with migrants in recent years.

More than one million migrants are estimated to have arrived in Germany during the last year alone.

The Federal Office for Migration and Refugees estimates that another 200,000 people will apply for asylum in 2017.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/725651/germany-migrants-allahu-akbar-muslim-christmas-islam-primary-school-pupils-angela-merkel?utm_source=traffic.outbrain&utm_medium=traffic.outbrain&utm_term=traffic.outbrain&utm_content=traffic.outbrain&utm_campaign=traffic.outbrain

I find this appalling as it shows no consideration or respect for the indigenous population and the cultural and religious beliefs of that population. The way of life of the 'natives' should always be protected.

[Shaun]

So in a lesson about religion and ethics, some kids learned what Muslims say? OMG THE GERMAN IDENTITY IS AT PERIL!!!!!!!!!!

[Tom4784]

So in a lesson about religion and ethics, some kids learned what Muslims say? OMG THE GERMAN IDENTITY IS AT PERIL!!!!!!!!!!

tbh.

The rest of the article seems to be the typical 'MUSLIMS ARE TRYING TO KILL CHRISTMAS' spiel that gets regurgitated every year.

[Brillopad]

So in a lesson about religion and ethics, some kids learned what Muslims say? OMG THE GERMAN IDENTITY IS AT PERIL!!!!!!!!!!

You mock, but you, or should I say your future children/grandchildren, may live to pay for your apathy on the subject. As long as you are not around to worry about it though.

[Shaun]

You're putting an awful lot of weight on that word 'may'. I'm not the one wetting myself over a sheet of A4 paper.

[Tom4784]

Not all Muslims are extremist, the actions of a few do not reflect the actions of the whole. It would be like saying that all Christians are paedophiles due to the crimes of some priests. It's incredibly ignorant to paint Islam as this major threat when it's the extremists that are the problem.

Extremism is not going to take over, We are not going to become a country ruled by Shariah Law. As ever, it's pure hysteria fuelling these fears and not a sense of reality.

There's only a few ways we could ever be taken over and all of them are incredibly unrealistic. The first would be a political takeover which will never happen since Muslim politicians are put under a microscope by the media, look how desperate the media was to create a scandal about Sadiq Khan. Do you honestly think that enough extremist politicians could go undetected and push through policies and laws that would make a Shariah Britain a reality? Not a ****ing chance. Even if these laws were somehow forced into reality, the government would likely face revolts from it's different branches.

The second method would be a referendum of sorts which would never get support from the public. Extremists make up an extreme minority of Muslims, most Muslims wouldn't likely support that referendum nevermind the millions of non-Muslims. Muslims will always be a minority in the UK since the number of non-Muslim citizens will always grow at a larger rate. The only way extremist muslims could force a referendum and win it is if every moderate muslim and non-muslim in the country stopped breeding for a long enough period of time to curb the population growth.

The third and most unlikely is a military takeover. I don't need to go into why that's never going to happen since it should be ****ing obvious why.

It would be nearly impossible to take a democratic country like ours that has enjoyed it's freedoms for years and turn it into a dictatorship. It's all just silly hysteria.

[Northern Monkey]

IS THIS 'USURPATION' OR 'INTEGRATION'?

Fury as German primary school ‘forces’ children to chant ‘Allahu Akbar’ in Muslim prayer

PUPILS at a primary school were forced to chant "Allahu Akhbar" and “there is no God but Allah", an appalled father has claimed.

The father of the pupil at the girl's primary school in German ski resort Garmisch-Partenkirchen discovered that his daughter had been forced to learn the Islamic prayer when he discovered a handout she had been given.

He claimed she had been "forced" by teachers to memorise the Islamic chants and forwarded the handout to Austrian news service unsertirol24.

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/78/590x/Merkel-koran-725651.jpg

The handout read: "Oh Allah, how perfect you are and praise be to you. Blessed is your name, and exalted is your majesty. There is no God but you."

It had been given to the girl during a lesson in "ethics" at the Bavarian school.

Headteacher Gisela Herl did not confirm the incident when questioned, but said the school would issue a written statement detailing its position in the coming week.

The incident comes just weeks after parents complained to German newspaper Hessian Niedersächsische Allgemeine (HNA) that their children's nursery was refusing to acknowledge "Christmas rituals" to accommodate the "diverse cultures" of other pupils.

The Sara Nussbaum House daycare centre in Kassel refused to put up a Christmas tree, tell Christmas stories or celebrate Christmas in general because it said only a minority of pupils were Christian.

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/78/590x/secondary/migrants-698664.jpg
Child migrants are said to outnumber natives at many schools

A spokesman for Kassel explained: “There will be no Christmas celebrations, in the strictest sense. Because the majority of children at this kindergarten are not Christian the festival will not be celebrated in the way that it is at other schools.”

Migrants now outnumber native children at many schools in Germany as the country has been inundated with migrants in recent years.

More than one million migrants are estimated to have arrived in Germany during the last year alone.

The Federal Office for Migration and Refugees estimates that another 200,000 people will apply for asylum in 2017.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/725651/germany-migrants-allahu-akbar-muslim-christmas-islam-primary-school-pupils-angela-merkel?utm_source=traffic.outbrain&utm_medium=traffic.outbrain&utm_term=traffic.outbrain&utm_content=traffic.outbrain&utm_campaign=traffic.outbrainGermany's fecked.
Merkel is a liability.The country has a low population so what's Merkels plan?Fill it with Muslims:facepalm:
I predict a backlash and a rise of the far right in the not too distant future.

[Kizzy]

Germany's fecked.
Merkel is a liability.The country has a low population so what's Merkels plan?Fill it with Muslims:facepalm:
I predict a backlash and a rise of the far right in the not too distant future.

Where have you been? The far right has risen, Trump is president.

Is there a need for 2 threads on the same topic though?

[Northern Monkey]

Where have you been? The far right has risen, Trump is president.

Is there a need for 2 threads on the same topic though?

I'm talking about in Germany.

[jaxie]

So in a lesson about religion and ethics, some kids learned what Muslims say? OMG THE GERMAN IDENTITY IS AT PERIL!!!!!!!!!!

So what if a child is told to chant the doctrine and is of a family who are deeply into a different faith. This could cause profound upset. :shrug:

[jaxie]

Not all Muslims are extremist, the actions of a few do not reflect the actions of the whole. It would be like saying that all Christians are paedophiles due to the crimes of some priests. It's incredibly ignorant to paint Islam as this major threat when it's the extremists that are the problem.

Extremism is not going to take over, We are not going to become a country ruled by Shariah Law. As ever, it's pure hysteria fuelling these fears and not a sense of reality.

There's only a few ways we could ever be taken over and all of them are incredibly unrealistic. The first would be a political takeover which will never happen since Muslim politicians are put under a microscope by the media, look how desperate the media was to create a scandal about Sadiq Khan. Do you honestly think that enough extremist politicians could go undetected and push through policies and laws that would make a Shariah Britain a reality? Not a ****ing chance. Even if these laws were somehow forced into reality, the government would likely face revolts from it's different branches.

The second method would be a referendum of sorts which would never get support from the public. Extremists make up an extreme minority of Muslims, most Muslims wouldn't likely support that referendum nevermind the millions of non-Muslims. Muslims will always be a minority in the UK since the number of non-Muslim citizens will always grow at a larger rate. The only way extremist muslims could force a referendum and win it is if every moderate muslim and non-muslim in the country stopped breeding for a long enough period of time to curb the population growth.

The third and most unlikely is a military takeover. I don't need to go into why that's never going to happen since it should be ****ing obvious why.

It would be nearly impossible to take a democratic country like ours that has enjoyed it's freedoms for years and turn it into a dictatorship. It's all just silly hysteria.

Calling half the thread ignorant again? :nono:

What does looking the other way achieve for you?

Bold 2: What you are convieniantly forgetting as always is the minority of people that are forced to live a certain way by their community. Those are the folks that you should be worrying about/feeling compassion for.

[Kizzy]

I'm talking about in Germany.

there are far right groups rising everywhere, there has always been a far right presence in Germany.
http://i.imgur.com/dfWGP3E.gif

[Jessica.]

When I was in primary school I learned many songs and prayers about our Catholic God being the one and only God. Is that just fine because we had to say it in English and Latin but not Arabic? :joker: This is not news, it's education and I think all kids should know what Allahu Akbar means so they don't end up as ignorant as a lot of adults these days.

[Northern Monkey]

there are far right groups rising everywhere, there has always been a far right presence in Germany.
http://i.imgur.com/dfWGP3E.gif

I know.I saw the Swastikas graffitied on the walls when i was there.
There is much more chance of another far right group getting power though with this Islamisation being left free to prosper.

[Brillopad]

I know.I saw the Swastikas graffitied on the walls when i was there.
There is much more chance of another far right group getting power though with this Islamisation being left free to prosper.

Exactly!

[Withano]

When I was in primary school I learned many songs and prayers about our Catholic God being the one and only God. Is that just fine because we had to say it in English and Latin but not Arabic? :joker: This is not news, it's education and I think all kids should know what Allahu Akbar means so they don't end up as ignorant as a lot of adults these days.

hahaha :clap1: i think some people like to pretend that hymn practice isnt incredibly common for many non-religious schools. Its only bad when it happens the other way around I think.

[Brillopad]

When I was in primary school I learned many songs and prayers about our Catholic God being the one and only God. Is that just fine because we had to say it in English and Latin but not Arabic? :joker: This is not news, it's education and I think all kids should know what Allahu Akbar means so they don't end up as ignorant as a lot of adults these days.

There are many types of 'ignorant' - it usually comes down to viewpoint. Personally I don't think that any child should have any religion shoved down it's throat, would avoid a whole host of problems.

[jaxie]

There are many types of 'ignorant' - it usually comes down to viewpoint. Personally I don't think that any child should have any religion shoved down it's throat, would avoid a whole host of problems.

:flowers:

[Jessica.]

There are many types of 'ignorant' - it usually comes down to viewpoint. Personally I don't think that any child should have any religion shoved down it's throat, would avoid a whole host of problems.
There's a difference between having religion shoved down your throat and learning about religions in order to understand and respect the billions of people who practice them daily. :)

[jennyjuniper]

So what if a child is told to chant the doctrine and is of a family who are deeply into a different faith. This could cause profound upset. :shrug:

I would accept that only if muslim children were asked to recite the Lords prayer and prayers from other major religions were being recited too.

[jaxie]

I would accept that only if muslim children were asked to recite the Lords prayer and prayers from other major religions were being recited too.

That's probably when it would get violent with the parents storming the school.

[Brillopad]

There's a difference between having religion shoved down your throat and learning about religions in order to understand and respect the billions of people who practice them daily. :)

Tell that to those that run certain types of religious schools in Britain. One rule for all - government-run or independent.

[Firewire]

I wish I was taught Arabic at school

[jaxie]

I wish I was taught Arabic at school

I wish I was taught French .. with any real conviction, skill and enthusiasm.

[Brillopad]

For me it would be Russian. Don't really know why, Russia just intrigues me.

[Northern Monkey]

I wish I was taught Arabic at school

Give it a few years,We might all need to learn Arabic....

[Brillopad]

Give it a few years,We might all need to learn Arabic....

God forbid.

[Firewire]

Give it a few years,We might all need to learn Arabic....

Exciting, have always wanted to visit Dubai so would make it much easier to communicate

[Brillopad]

Exciting, have always wanted to visit Dubai so would make it much easier to communicate

Easy to say as a man. Unfortunately most of these countries aren't safe or comfortable places for women to go, which says it all. Might end up getting stoned to death for showing some hair or skin or daring to speak at all.

[Tom4784]

Calling half the thread ignorant again? :nono:

What does looking the other way achieve for you?

Bold 2: What you are convieniantly forgetting as always is the minority of people that are forced to live a certain way by their community. Those are the folks that you should be worrying about/feeling compassion for.

What else would you call painting a whole religion consisting of millions of people a certain way based on extremism? Ignorant is the only applicable word.

I'm not looking the other way, I'm just not going to fall victim to blind hysteria and prejudice.

Like I said before, an extremist Britain is something that is never going to happen and I've provided reasons why which is more than can be said for people who are acting like Muslims are trying to take us over.

[Firewire]

Easy to say as a man. Unfortunately most of these countries aren't safe or comfortable places for women to go, which says it all. Might end up getting stoned to death for showing some hair or skin or daring to speak at all.

It's illegal for men to show skin in Dubai as well you know

How do you know I'm a man? I haven't mentioned it.

[jaxie]

It's illegal for men to show skin in Dubai as well you know

How do you know I'm a man? I haven't mentioned it.

That's not true. My son was in Dubai last year visiting a friend who is a national and there were lots of people in shorts and t shirts around the city and mall. The young guys working the burj khalifa glide which my son did wore t shirts and shorts. Even one of the Prince's can be found on the net doing the base jump glide in a t shirt.

[Brillopad]

It's illegal for men to show skin in Dubai as well you know

How do you know I'm a man? I haven't mentioned it.

Pretty safe assumption I think.

[Brillopad]

It's illegal for men to show skin in Dubai as well you know

it.

Actually I didn't know that - not even sure I believe that. If so, at least the men get to wear white, unlike the poor women who have to struggle in heat-attracting black. Clearly not a decision made by the poor women. The men there really do hate women.

[MB.]

Yeah there's definitely no men who hate women on this site or anything

[jaxie]

Actually I didn't know that - not even sure I believe that. If so, at least the men get to wear white, unlike the poor women who have to struggle in heat-attracting black. Clearly not a decision made by the poor women. The men there really do hate women.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DmfEUcv4S4

Dubai Prince doing the Burj Khalifa in shorts and t shirt, definitely showing some skin. Handsome chap.

[Brillopad]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DmfEUcv4S4

Dubai Prince doing the Burj Khalifa in shorts and t shirt, definitely showing some skin. Handsome chap.

Shocking - tempting all us lowly women, shame on him! :joker:

Doesn't do it for me though- I don't like how his mind works. Too insecure for my taste. Body - pretty average.

[Ammi]

..I read that the school will issue their statement about this soon, so I'll wait for that to get a bit more of a balance because working in a school myself I know that media stories can often be slanted..I find it really sad though in feeling that extreme terrorism has won in the effect it's having on the world in attaching it's own negative and hate-filled meaning on words because of the violent acts it has done 'in the name' of when none of those actions have been in the name of at all, they've only been in the name of hate and no other belief/religion/culture...but now sadly there are associations which instil concern and instil fear...terrorism seems so much to be winning at times without even having to arm itself with weapons...


...we don't have much power against it in many cases, except to try to counter its intolerance by helping children to be more tolerant and helping in their understanding of others and their different cultures and beliefs...we have some Muslim families at our school, as have other schools around us...not so many as it's not a highly populated Muslim area...children ask questions like why can't ******* eat certain meat, why do they wish for a place of prayer if they're on a residential visit etc etc...it's important to explain these things and explain different culture and belief so that fear is not there of anything unfamiliar to them..the parents of the Muslim families we have come into the school themselves to explain and explain the meaning of their prayers and help children to understand and with understanding comes acceptance and tolerance..that for me is a huge 'weapon' against terrorism and hate because it's not allowing those negative attachments to be the only voice heard in what is an extremely worrying time...

[arista]

[..that for me is a huge 'weapon' against terrorism and hate because it's not allowing those negative attachments to be the only voice heard in what is an extremely worrying time... ]


yes Ammi
the head must get SACKED
crossing the line,
this has gone all over the World.

[arista]

[I'm not looking the other way, I'm just not going to fall victim to blind hysteria and prejudice. ]

No Hysteria from me, Dezzy,
there is a clear red line
it has been crossed
Sack the Head in control, Fast.

[Ammi]

[..that for me is a huge 'weapon' against terrorism and hate because it's not allowing those negative attachments to be the only voice heard in what is an extremely worrying time... ]


yes Ammi
the head must get SACKED
crossing the line,
this has gone all over the World.

...maybe she should and maybe she shouldn't Arista, we don't know that without a little more context to the story and whether any lines were crossed at all...if it's appropriate for her to lose her job with any of her actions/decisions then so be it...

[arista]

Well tell the German Media to Report
it all in Full.
Stop hiding it.

[Ammi]

..the school/headmistress hasn't made a statement yet so far as I know so no context to report yet...

[Niamh.]

Easy to say as a man. Unfortunately most of these countries aren't safe or comfortable places for women to go, which says it all. Might end up getting stoned to death for showing some hair or skin or daring to speak at all.

Dubai is pretty easy going I believe, two of my (female) cousins live and work there and they dress like they would here

[Withano]

I don't know how the topic turned to Dubai.. but I can assure anybody who is concerned that it isnt what they think it is. Granted, I've only been to the capital city which may be more relaxed than the smaller towns, but the locals and tourists have a much more laidback sense of dresscode than many are trying to make out here. Or at least they did three years ago, they may have gone back a bit in that time, but doubtful.

[Niamh.]

I don't know how the topic turned to Dubai.. but I can assure anybody who is concerned that it isnt what they think it is. Granted, I've only been to the capital city which may be more relaxed than the smaller towns, but the locals and tourists have a much more laidback sense of dresscode than many are trying to make out here. Or at least they did three years ago, they may have gone back a bit in that time, but doubtful.

Dubai is the only country I know abit about in the Middle East. One of my cousins has kids there too and she's always putting pictures of them up on FB, they wear a uniform for school and it looks like a normal school uniform. Infact I just checked her account and she's put a photo up of them all on a beach there where there was some sort of after sports picnic going on. It looks no different to a beach scene you would see in Spain or whatever, both boys/girls/women/men wearing normal beach stuff

[jaxie]

Dubai is pretty easy going I believe, two of my (female) cousins live and work there and they dress like they would here

It has huge tourist interests and is one of the more liberal places in the middle east. Also one of the prettiest cities I've ever seen.

[Niamh.]

It has huge tourist interests and is one of the more liberal places in the middle east. Also one of the prettiest cities I've ever seen.

Yeah, I'd imagine it isn't the "norm" when it comes to the middle east

[Alf]

Nothing to do with this thread but speaking of Dubai, I saw this story last week.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/dubai-alleged-gang-rape-victim-woman-arrested-united-arab-emirates-nightmare-ordeal-a7426421.html

[Niamh.]

Nothing to do with this thread but speaking of Dubai, I saw this story last week.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/dubai-alleged-gang-rape-victim-woman-arrested-united-arab-emirates-nightmare-ordeal-a7426421.html

wow that's horrific and the two accused were allowed to leave the country but she wasn't. It's disgusting

[Brother Leon]

Learning prayers in R.E? What a shock.

[jaxie]

wow that's horrific and the two accused were allowed to leave the country but she wasn't. It's disgusting

Unfortunately women get a horrible deal under muslim law. In some countries women can be killed for so called honour crimes and the men get away with it. A deal is done between families, often money changes hands. The low value of a female life. At least this British lady will have her embassy to fight for her, imagine what it's like for a girl who doesn't.

[Withano]

Dubai is the only country I know abit about in the Middle East. One of my cousins has kids there too and she's always putting pictures of them up on FB, they wear a uniform for school and it looks like a normal school uniform. Infact I just checked her account and she's put a photo up of them all on a beach there where there was some sort of after sports picnic going on. It looks no different to a beach scene you would see in Spain or whatever, both boys/girls/women/men wearing normal beach stuff

Yeh, I had to wear a shirt and tie there and I was probably one of the most overdressed people ere, I think even the locals thought I was a twat. But I did go to the beach a few times, looked similar to any other beach that I've been too, only difference being people (of both genders) were walking around with exotic animals trying to sell you a cool photograph.
I wasnt aware of this 'everyone in dubai wears 50 layers from head to toe' stereotype. Of course they dont, its like the hottest country in the world!

[Livia]

Learning about a religion does not include memorising verses and prayers and to get kids to recite this aloud in this climate is cynical. And they wonder why the Right is rising in Germany. Can you imagine the furore that would ensue if they got Muslims to recite aloud a Jewish blessing and then claim it was just part of the lesson?

[Niamh.]

Learning about a religion does not include memorising verses and prayers and to get kids to recite this aloud in this climate is cynical. And they wonder why the Right is rising in Germany. Can you imagine the furore that would ensue if they got Muslims to recite aloud a Jewish blessing and then claim it was just part of the lesson?

I agree with this, I'm a pretty big believer in religion being separate to schools anyway though. I think religion should be a personal thing and if you want to teach it your kids, you should do so on your own time

[Livia]

I agree with this, I'm a pretty big believer in religion being separate to schools anyway though. I think religion should be a personal thing and if you want to teach it your kids, you should do so on your own time

I completely agree. School should be secular. I did bible study and Hebrew in my own time and that's how it should be.

[kirklancaster]

learning about a religion does not include memorising verses and prayers and to get kids to recite this aloud in this climate is cynical. And they wonder why the right is rising in germany. Can you imagine the furore that would ensue if they got muslims to recite aloud a jewish blessing and then claim it was just part of the lesson?

absolutely this ^.

[kirklancaster]

i agree with this, i'm a pretty big believer in religion being separate to schools anyway though. I think religion should be a personal thing and if you want to teach it your kids, you should do so on your own time

and absolutely this ^.

[Jack_]

I agree with this, I'm a pretty big believer in religion being separate to schools anyway though. I think religion should be a personal thing and if you want to teach it your kids, you should do so on your own time

That's just as bad, if not worse though. Children shouldn't be indoctrinated with religion (and, ideally, things like political views too), more encouraged to think critically for themselves and come to their own conclusions either way.

Faith schools should be outlawed completely but I'm always on the fence when it comes to teaching religion as a subject, I can see both pros and cons. I always remember our Sociology class in Sixth Form asking our quite obviously atheist teacher why he taught RE to lower school, and he just responded with something like 'because the more you know about it, the more you realise how much **** it all is, and how to argue against it'. Made me think

[jaxie]

I agree with this, I'm a pretty big believer in religion being separate to schools anyway though. I think religion should be a personal thing and if you want to teach it your kids, you should do so on your own time

I agree with this 100%. I don't think faith schools should be allowed. Religion has no real place in education.

[kirklancaster]

That's just as bad, if not worse though. Children shouldn't be indoctrinated with religion (and, ideally, things like political views too), more encouraged to think critically for themselves and come to their own conclusions either way.

Faith schools should be outlawed completely but I'm always on the fence when it comes to teaching religion as a subject, I can see both pros and cons. I always remember our Sociology class in Sixth Form asking our quite obviously atheist teacher why he taught RE to lower school, and he just responded with something like 'because the more you know about it, the more you realise how much **** it all is, and how to argue against it'. Made me think

I agree with the points which you make in your post Jack and I used to think almost identically to you, but now I believe that ALL Religious Instruction AND Education should be totally banned fro all schools, except for dedicated Faith Schools - and even here it should only be allowed under the most rigorous of 'policing' by the Education Authorities.

I have had my mind changed by the increasing cases of schools 'conditioning' pupils and 'brainwashing' them into Religious Fundamentalism and Anti-Western propaganda - even in once traditional secular schools.

Oldknow Academy in Birmingham springs to mind.

[Brillopad]

I agree with this 100%. I don't think faith schools should be allowed. Religion has no real place in education.

I agree. Education is about teaching facts. Religion is about a belief, not fact.

[Vicky.]

That's just as bad, if not worse though. Children shouldn't be indoctrinated with religion (and, ideally, things like political views too), more encouraged to think critically for themselves and come to their own conclusions either way.

Faith schools should be outlawed completely but I'm always on the fence when it comes to teaching religion as a subject, I can see both pros and cons. I always remember our Sociology class in Sixth Form asking our quite obviously atheist teacher why he taught RE to lower school, and he just responded with something like 'because the more you know about it, the more you realise how much **** it all is, and how to argue against it'. Made me think

I don't see anything wrong with teaching it as a subject tbh. As long as its in a 'some people believe' type setting rather than being taught as truth. I have often wondered if faith schools teach science accurately...I am another who completely disagrees with faith schools. Education and religion should be kept separate. I am also kind of against bringing kids up strictly as a certain religion as the child should really have a choice about stuff like that. However I say that as someone who got my daughter christened so am slightly hypocritical :laugh: Neither me nor my husband is religious though..not even totally sure why we did it but we are not raising her as Christian..its up to her when shes older :p

[jaxie]

I don't see anything wrong with teaching it as a subject tbh. As long as its in a 'some people believe' type setting rather than being taught as truth. I have often wondered if faith schools teach science accurately...I am another who completely disagrees with faith schools. Education and religion should be kept separate. I am also kind of against bringing kids up strictly as a certain religion as the child should really have a choice about stuff like that. However I say that as someone who got my daughter christened so am slightly hypocritical :laugh: Neither me nor my husband is religious though..not even totally sure why we did it but we are not raising her as Christian..its up to her when shes older :p

I think sometimes with baptism it's family pressure/expectation/not wanting to disappoint. I know my mother and mother in law were very keen for me to do it, even though neither had been inside a church apart from family weddings and baptisms. It was quite hard to resist the pressure.

[Alf]

Hasn't the World changed?

When I was in primary School, is all we shouted was "Block 1 2 3" or "All join on if you wanna play bulldogs, no girls allowed"

[Northern Monkey]

Hasn't the World changed?

When I was in primary School, is all we shouted was "Block 1 2 3" or "All join on if you wanna play bulldogs, no girls allowed"

Ha.That sounds very much like my school.Now it's 'Allah snackbarrrr!!!'.

[Alf]

Ha.That sounds very much like my school.Now it's 'Allah snackbarrrr!!!'.It must be the new name for the tuck shop.

[Northern Monkey]

I don't see anything wrong with teaching it as a subject tbh. As long as its in a 'some people believe' type setting rather than being taught as truth. I have often wondered if faith schools teach science accurately...I am another who completely disagrees with faith schools. Education and religion should be kept separate. I am also kind of against bringing kids up strictly as a certain religion as the child should really have a choice about stuff like that. However I say that as someone who got my daughter christened so am slightly hypocritical :laugh: Neither me nor my husband is religious though..not even totally sure why we did it but we are not raising her as Christian..its up to her when shes older :pI went to a C of E primary school because it was close and apart from singing hymns in assembly in the morning,saying the lords prayer and taking food in for the poor at harvest it was no different from any other school.Still learned about Diwalli and other cultures and did normal lessons etc.

[Vicky.]

I think sometimes with baptism it's family pressure/expectation/not wanting to disappoint. I know my mother and mother in law were very keen for me to do it, even though neither had been inside a church apart from family weddings and baptisms. It was quite hard to resist the pressure.

Yeah honestly..we did it mainly for the grandparents. Felt a bit of a fraud standing up saying all the religious stuff.

[Rob!]

You mock, but you, or should I say your future children/grandchildren, may live to pay for your apathy on the subject. As long as you are not around to worry about it though.

Worked for all the over 50s that voted to leave :hee:

[Livia]

Worked for all the over 50s that voted to leave :hee:

That's an astonishing source of reference you have, to know who exactly voted for what.

[Niamh.]

That's just as bad, if not worse though. Children shouldn't be indoctrinated with religion (and, ideally, things like political views too), more encouraged to think critically for themselves and come to their own conclusions either way.

Faith schools should be outlawed completely but I'm always on the fence when it comes to teaching religion as a subject, I can see both pros and cons. I always remember our Sociology class in Sixth Form asking our quite obviously atheist teacher why he taught RE to lower school, and he just responded with something like 'because the more you know about it, the more you realise how much **** it all is, and how to argue against it'. Made me think

I disagree with it as a non religious person but you can't tell people how to raise their kids and parents who truly believe in God and all that goes with it, how can they not teach it to their kids?

[Jack_]

I disagree with it as a non religious person but you can't tell people how to raise their kids and parents who truly believe in God and all that goes with it, how can they not teach it to their kids?

Because they should realise that it's their own personal belief, which they are of course entitled to, but that their children should be afforded the same privilege. I know realistically this is never going to happen, but I still believe it should.

We should be raising a generation who are encouraged to think critically for themselves, do their own research and reading and come to their own conclusions, whether that's on religion or politics. Indoctrinating children is appalling as far as I'm concerned.

[Niamh.]

Because they should realise that it's their own personal belief, which they are of course entitled to, but that their children should be afforded the same privilege. I know realistically this is never going to happen, but I still believe it should.

We should be raising a generation who are encouraged to think critically for themselves, do their own research and reading and come to their own conclusions, whether that's on religion or politics. Indoctrinating children is appalling as far as I'm concerned.

Again, I'm not disagreeing with the theory behind your post but you have to try to see it through the eyes of a person who is religious, a big part of that is raising your kids by using the religions rules and beliefs etc. It would be going against the religions to not pass it on to their kids

[Livia]

Because they should realise that it's their own personal belief, which they are of course entitled to, but that their children should be afforded the same privilege. I know realistically this is never going to happen, but I still believe it should.

We should be raising a generation who are encouraged to think critically for themselves, do their own research and reading and come to their own conclusions, whether that's on religion or politics. Indoctrinating children is appalling as far as I'm concerned.

Are you suggesting that people who don't agree with your own particular stance on politics and religion can't think critically for themselves, do their own research and reading and reach their own conclusions?

[Jack_]

Again, I'm not disagreeing with the theory behind your post but you have to try to see it through the eyes of a person who is religious, a big part of that is raising your kids by using the religions rules and beliefs etc. It would be going against the religions to not pass it on to their kids

I realise that, hence why I think realistically it's not practical - but I still can't rationalise it. I know that's because I'm an atheist, but I'll still never be able to justify it no matter how hard I try :laugh:

[Jack_]

Are you suggesting that people who don't agree with your own particular stance on politics and religion can't think critically for themselves, do their own research and reading and reach their own conclusions?


If you'd read the post properly, what I was actually saying was that every person, child or otherwise, should be encouraged to read, research, debate and come to their own conclusions on a whole manner of issues. Whether I agree or disagree with such conclusions is neither here nor there, in fact it's all part of healthy discourse.

What I was saying applies to everyone, including to the children of atheists - their parents should encourage them to learn about different religions and make their own decisions. The same too works with political beliefs, regardless of whether you're a socialist or a capitalist, kipper or Green voter.

[Tom4784]

I was forced to say the Lord's Prayer every day in Primary School despite the fact that I wasn't Christian because it was a Christian school and the majority of people there were Christian. It's not entirely surprising to see this happen if the school mostly consists of Muslim students except I doubt anyone was forced to say the prayer.

This article is basically just an excuse to trigger sensitive islamaphobes.

[Livia]

I was forced to say the Lord's Prayer every day in Primary School despite the fact that I wasn't Christian because it was a Christian school and the majority of people there were Christian. It's not entirely surprising to see this happen if the school mostly consists of Muslim students except I doubt anyone was forced to say the prayer.

This article is basically just an excuse to trigger sensitive islamaphobes.

Not wanting to say a Muslim prayer doesn't make me an Islamaphobe.

[Niamh.]

Deleted some posts in here, could you two stay on topic please and stop making it about eachother

[Withano]

I love how people think children reciting a muslim prayer means that theyre likely to become muslim.. Because 90% of British adults are avid church goers after their hymn practicing primary schools.
Personally, I think children should be taught of each religion, and atheism, in equal measures. if they find faith in any one of them, then good for them. Who are we to argue against their faith.
I realise this has little to do with the article in the OP, but the authenticity of that article has been debunked enough in the thread.

[jaxie]

Because they should realise that it's their own personal belief, which they are of course entitled to, but that their children should be afforded the same privilege. I know realistically this is never going to happen, but I still believe it should.

We should be raising a generation who are encouraged to think critically for themselves, do their own research and reading and come to their own conclusions, whether that's on religion or politics. Indoctrinating children is appalling as far as I'm concerned.

I agree that it shouldn't be pushed on children but I don't think any of the established religions would survive more than two generations.

[jaxie]

I love how people think children reciting a muslim prayer means that theyre likely to become muslim.. Because 90% of British adults are avid church goers after their hymn practicing primary schools.
Personally, I think children should be taught of each religion, and atheism, in equal measures. if they find faith in any one of them, then good for them. Who are we to argue against their faith.
I realise this has little to do with the article in the OP, but the authenticity of that article has been debunked enough in the thread.

I've not seen anyone on the thread say that. You are taking a serious leap in your own direction with this remark. :shrug:

I don't see why any child should be reciting a prayer in school, they'd be much better served reciting the times tables (which they don't do anymore).

[Tom4784]

Not wanting to say a Muslim prayer doesn't make me an Islamaphobe.

Of course it doesn't which is why I didn't say that.

[Withano]

I've not seen anyone on the thread say that. You are taking a serious leap in your own direction with this remark. :shrug:
.

You mock, but you, or should I say your future children/grandchildren, may live to pay for your apathy on the subject. As long as you are not around to worry about it though.

Germany's fecked.
The country has a low population so what's Merkels plan?Fill it with Muslims:facepalm:


I know.I saw the Swastikas graffitied on the walls when i was there.
There is much more chance of another far right group getting power though with this Islamisation being left free to prosper.



I have had my mind changed by the increasing cases of schools 'conditioning' pupils and 'brainwashing' them into Religious Fundamentalism and Anti-Western propaganda - even in once traditional secular schools.

These + a large host of deleted posts

I'm just suggesting that religion and atheism should be taught, and children should find their own faith. Those who fear children might pick the wrong one should not be around children when theyre being taught about religion imo, they dont need to hear biases and fear mongering when making their choice, they need structured lessons. Prayer and hymn practice seems appropriate, I dont understand the fuss.

[Kizzy]

Half of Britons are terrified of facism.... not religion.

I know that, the independent knows that and most importantly Lily Allen knows that!


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/fascism-spreading-across-world-bmg-poll-trump-brexit-le-pen-wilders-petry-a7492981.html

[Crimson Dynamo]

all superstitions and cults have no place in schools

they can be covered in one history lesson in secondary.

[Livia]

These + a large host of deleted posts

I'm just suggesting that religion and atheism should be taught, and children should find their own faith. Those who fear children might pick the wrong one should not be around children when theyre being taught about religion imo, they dont need to hear biases and fear mongering when making their choice, they need structured lessons. Prayer and hymn practice seems appropriate, I dont understand the fuss.


I agree with this to a large extent... which will probably surprise Withano!

I think education and religious practice should be separate. Although I do believe religion should be taught as a subject, covering the different religions, the history of organised religion and also atheism, as suggested above. I know that there are some kids who are brought up indoctrinated into a religion, and being born into a Jewish family I'm sure some people may think that about me. But I was never pushed to follow the faith, it was my own choice, and my brother's own choice. And still there are things about the faith with which I don't agree and am happy to say so.

As always, the problem lays with the fundamentalists... of all faiths.

[Kizzy]

How about we call this subject 'Ethics'?...