Transgenders must Stay Out of UK Jails , 4 dead already

[arista]

Transgender Folks must stay Out of UK Jails
sadly 4 have Died



Ref: BBC World News TV 5:42AM

[Wizard.]

Were they murdered or did they commit suicide?

[arista]

Were they murdered or did they commit suicide?



Both I assume

[Livia]

Maybe they could desist from breaking the law, then they wouldn't have to go to prison. It's a radical idea, I know...

[DouglasS]

Maybe they could desist from breaking the law, then they wouldn't have to go to prison. It's a radical idea, I know...

Maybe if society was more accepting and they were able to have an upbringing with less abuse they may have felt better about themselves and not feel cornered and they may be less likely to commit crimes. It's a radical idea, I know...

[thesheriff443]

They can keep paedaphiles in separate wings they should be doing the same for trans gender.

[Livia]

Maybe if society was more accepting and they were able to have an upbringing with less abuse they may have felt better about themselves and not feel cornered and they may be less likely to commit crimes. It's a radical idea, I know...

Here's a bit of shocking news... They are not the only people who have abuse and problems in their life. Or are you trying to say they are entitled to break the law because they have a hard time?

[UserSince2005]

They should be locked up in mental institutions.

[Vicky.]

If this is about the latest 'transgender' suicide...the guy only just started 'identifying' as a woman right after the crime, murdered someone, hasn't had SRS yet expected to go to the female prison.

Also much fuss is being made over the 'high' numbers of transgender suicides whilst ignoring the extremely high number of suicides in general in prisons.

[Denver]

You cant just bypass all laws committed by Trans people because prisons are not safe if they dont commit the crime they wont be punished

[Vicky.]

They can keep paedaphiles in separate wings they should be doing the same for trans gender.

I agree with this. Would be best/safer all round.

Disclaimer. This does not mean I think transgender people are paedos.

[thesheriff443]

You cant just bypass all laws committed by Trans people because prisons are not safe if they dont commit the crime they wont be punished

I don't think it's about by passing laws, prisoners with severe mental health problems are Kept in secure hospitals, clearly putting trans gender into male prisons is not working.

[DouglasS]

Here's a bit of shocking news... They are not the only people who have abuse and problems in their life. Or are you trying to say they are entitled to break the law because they have a hard time?

Nope, what I'm saying is many LGBT teens are kicked out on the street at 16, and are homeless and see crime as their way out. This happens because they are different and get abuse from uneducated dumb crowds. I don't see how placing transgendered people with these same people who are often the cause of them going into crime is exactly rehabilitation. I'm not saying they should get special treatment, I think they should however be placed in correct/better prisons or even safer places in the prisons, because transgendered people are definitely going to be targetted by the other inmates. [I've had 3 hours sleep, so not very coherent but can't think of the actual word]

[Ninastar]

I agree with this. Would be best/safer all round.

Disclaimer. This does not mean I think transgender people are paedos.

I am TRIGGERED by this info vicky!!

[Vicky.]

Nope, what I'm saying is many LGBT teens are kicked out on the street at 16, and are homeless and see crime as their way out. This happens because they are different and get abuse from uneducated dumb crowds. I don't see how placing transgendered people with these same people who are often the cause of them going into crime is exactly rehabilitation. I'm not saying they should get special treatment, I think they should however be placed in correct/better prisons [I've had 3 hours sleep, so not very coherent but can't think of the actual word]

This argument falls apart though unless you also believe gay men should be put somewhere different to male prisons, as they have also been discriminated against and such by the people they are housed with :shrug:

[Denver]

I don't think it's about by passing laws, prisoners with severe mental health problems are Kept in secure hospitals, clearly putting trans gender into male prisons is not working.

But being a murderer you should be given the same sentence as man or woman not going to a mental hospital because you dont feel safe in prison

[Vicky.]

I am TRIGGERED by this info vicky!!

:laugh:

[Jamie89]

They can keep paedaphiles in separate wings they should be doing the same for trans gender.

I think it should certainly be an option for them. I'm all for punishing people who commit crimes but it should be the punishment they are sentenced to, not a punishment dished out by other inmates and that's something trans people are often subjected to. Ideally we wouldn't need this solution but there's no denying the problem exists.

They should be locked up in mental institutions.

Why?

If this is about the latest 'transgender' suicide...the guy only just started 'identifying' as a woman right after the crime, murdered someone, hasn't had SRS yet expected to go to the female prison.

Also much fuss is being made over the 'high' numbers of transgender suicides whilst ignoring the extremely high number of suicides in general in prisons.

It would be interesting to know the stats. The rate of suicides amongst transgender people is far higher than the norm overall but I'm not sure what it is specifically with prisoners.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Our prisons are too full to start making more exceptions, sorry.

[arista]

They can keep paedaphiles in separate wings they should be doing the same for trans gender.



No WAY
They do not have the room.

If you are a Trans
Never break the Law
Never go to a UK prison
Stay Alive

[Livia]

Prison suicides by women have soared... rates are high anway, around 150 people a week commit suicide in prison. They're all worthy of attention.

[Denver]

I also agree with Vicky there are loads of deaths in prisons each day but nobody gives a **** about them but because they are trans gendered they are made superior to other inmates and criminals but if the media will make a big deal out of 4 trans people dying then they need to start being fair and letting us know of every criminals death.

[arista]

Our prisons are too full to start making more exceptions, sorry.


Bang On Right LT.

[Jamie89]

Nope, what I'm saying is many LGBT teens are kicked out on the street at 16, and are homeless and see crime as their way out. This happens because they are different and get abuse from uneducated dumb crowds. I don't see how placing transgendered people with these same people who are often the cause of them going into crime is exactly rehabilitation. I'm not saying they should get special treatment, I think they should however be placed in correct/better prisons or even safer places in the prisons, because transgendered people are definitely going to be targetted by the other inmates. [I've had 3 hours sleep, so not very coherent but can't think of the actual word]

Yeah, it's more that currently they're getting a far worse treatment than they should be subjected to but by doing something about it, you're ensuring they get the same treatment as other prisoners. It's not offering them a special benefit, it's just ensuring they serve the sentence they've been given for their crimes (which surely is the whole point in the justice system).

[Vicky.]

Of course the answer is separate transgender wings. But separate spaces isn't what is wanted and would be 'othering'. Its a push for them to be housed in the female prison as its 'easier'. I have no issues at all with fully transitioned transwomen going to female prisons. But those with a dick or those who just put on a dress on a saturday night and call themselves trans like we see recently...nope nope nope. Clear danger to the females in prison.

[DouglasS]

This argument falls apart though unless you also believe gay men should be put somewhere different to male prisons, as they have also been discriminated against and such by the people they are housed with :shrug:

True, but being transgendered is far less accepted and frowned upon nowadays, and it's something that will be noticed right away by inmates. Inmates might not even know if a prisoner who is entering is gay. Although 5 percent or so of males identify as gay I think now, and so I wonder in the future if they'll have an LGBT prison, as 5 percent is quite a big population, it's 1/20, and there are often over 20 prisons in countries

[arista]

Prison suicides by women have soared... rates are high anway, around 150 people a week commit suicide in prison. They're all worthy of attention.


Not by the Early AM BBC TV World News
sorry

[Vicky.]

Also...you never see any stories about transmen wanting to be in the male prison for some odd reason. I wonder why that is...

[thesheriff443]

But being a murderer you should be given the same sentence as man or woman not going to a mental hospital because you dont feel safe in prison

Being in a mental hospital is not a holiday, we give murders hospital treatment, and in general keep them safe in prison, so if trans genders are not safe in prison we need to act despite the fact they may be murderers.

[Denver]

Being in a mental hospital is not a holiday, we give murders hospital treatment, and in general keep them safe in prison, so if trans genders are not safe in prison we need to act despite the fact they may be murderers.

Then we send all murderers to mental hospitals because they are all clearly unhinged?

[Denver]

We also got to put women prisoners in to account are they going to be comfortable with it? do that want to see a willy flop about in the shower?

[Livia]

Nope, what I'm saying is many LGBT teens are kicked out on the street at 16, and are homeless and see crime as their way out. This happens because they are different and get abuse from uneducated dumb crowds. I don't see how placing transgendered people with these same people who are often the cause of them going into crime is exactly rehabilitation. I'm not saying they should get special treatment, I think they should however be placed in correct/better prisons or even safer places in the prisons, because transgendered people are definitely going to be targetted by the other inmates. [I've had 3 hours sleep, so not very coherent but can't think of the actual word]

We're not talking about lesbians and gay people, we're talking specifically about transgener people... and they are not the only ones to be kicked out at 16. All sorts of people from all sorts of backgrounds have a bad start. Nothing excuses them breaking the law... not anything.

[thesheriff443]

Then we send all murderers to mental hospitals because they are all clearly unhinged?

Of course we don't, every murderer is a seperate case

[Denver]

Of course we don't, every murderer is a seperate case

You must be unhinged and mental to take someones life no?

[Jamie89]

We also got to put women prisoners in to account are they going to be comfortable with it? do that want to see a willy flop about in the shower?

They are also people who have committed crimes, so why should their discomfort be taken into account but the treatment of transgender people shouldn't? Somebody committing suicide because of their treatment in prison is surely a higher priority than making sure people feel 'comfortable'?

[thesheriff443]

You must be unhinged and mental to take someones life no?

No, and it's defined in law.

[Denver]

They are also people who have committed crimes, so why should their discomfort be taken into account but the treatment of transgender people shouldn't? Somebody committing suicide because of their treatment in prison is surely a higher priority than making sure people feel 'comfortable'?

Well all i see in this Friends is trans lives matter more.

If they have not legally changed their gender status or had the right procedures on offer then they have no right to demand to be put in the right prison.

[Vicky.]

They are also people who have committed crimes, so why should their discomfort be taken into account but the treatment of transgender people shouldn't? Somebody committing suicide because of their treatment in prison is surely a higher priority than making sure people feel 'comfortable'?

Well...we separate by sex. Male and female. So...its not about feeling comfortable as such. its about the reasons for seperating by sex to start with

Unless you believe all prisons should be mixed, then I cannot understand the idea of 'sex segregation is needed but not in some cases'

[Jamie89]

Well all i see in this Friends is trans lives matter more.

If they have not legally changed their gender status or had the right procedures on offer then they have no right to demand to be put in the right prison.

I don't think it's that they matter more, but if they matter equally and something can be done to make sure they're treated equally (rather than less-than which is how they're currently often treated by being subjected to abuses within the prison system) then that's all I think people really want. Like Douglas said earlier in the thread it's not about 'special treatment', it's just trying to ensure that they get punished by the system instead of by other prisoners.

Well...we separate by sex. Male and female. So...its not about feeling comfortable as such. its about the reasons for seperating by sex to start with

Unless you believe all prisons should be mixed, then I cannot understand the idea of 'sex segregation is needed but not in some cases'

I think the reason we have separate prisons for men and women is to do with safety, mainly keeping female prisoners safe from male prisoners. So it just seems odd to me that we have that as a staple of our prison system yet when it comes to safety of other groups we don't have anything in place. I don't know what the ideal solution is but I don't accept the idea that they should just have to put with it because they're criminals. We don't accept that in regards to female prisoners so why trans prisoners?

[DouglasS]

What I'm trying to say is... Males and Females are seperate in prison for a reason, to prevent deaths/harm/abuse. I'm just using the exact same logic, thinking transgendered people deserve the same rights that in this instance females have.

[Vicky.]

I think the reason we have separate prisons for men and women is to do with safety, mainly keeping female prisoners safe from male prisoners. So it just seems odd to me that we have that as a staple of our prison system yet when it comes to safety of other groups we don't have anything in place. I don't know what the ideal solution is but I don't accept the idea that they should just have to put with it because they're criminals. We don't accept that in regards to female prisoners so why trans prisoners?
The answer is quite obviously separate wings for transgender people. Not throwing them in with the females and thus putting the females in the very danger we were trying to avoid by separating by sex.

A hell of a lot of this 'trans' stuff seems to take '**** females and their safety' as a default position when talking about sex segregated areas. I disagree with that entirely and the obvious answer is separate areas for transgendered people. If this is 'othering'...so be it. There is NO other solution to this that doesn't throw half of the population under the bus. Females remain safe (or as safe as possible) and transgendered people are safe. Sorry if that sounds harsh.

[Jamie89]

The answer is quite obviously separate wings for transgender people. Not throwing them in with the females and thus putting the females in the very danger we were trying to avoid by separating by sex.

A hell of a lot of this 'trans' stuff seems to take '**** females and their safety' as a default position when talking about sex segregated areas. I disagree with that entirely and the obvious answer is separate areas for transgendered people. If this is 'othering'...so be it. There is NO other solution to this that doesn't throw half of the population under the bus. Females remain safe (or as safe as possible) and transgendered people are safe. Sorry if that sounds harsh.

My point was to say that if a trans-woman was in a female prison, I don't think that the 'discomfort' of the other women should be the deciding factor in whether or not that happens (it wasn't referring to the safety of the women, just the suggestion that they might not be comfortable with it).

So it's not a '**** females and their safety' stance, it's a '**** discomfort' stance :laugh: The safety of women prisoners is of course just as important, but I don't know if they'd really be at an increased danger by being among trans-women anyway (even if they haven't fully transitioned)? I could be wrong on that, I don't know the stats on it. But anyway, I think that if trans people aren't going to be put into prisons with the gender that they identify as, then like I said they should absolutely have the option of going into a segregated trans-only wing so I'd agree on that.

[Vicky.]

Prisons are separated by sex, not gender though?

Anyway, my solution won't make some happy but its the fairest/safest I can see all round really. Fully transitioned transwomen can go to female prisons. Others, a seperate wing. Those who decide they are trans after being convicted/caught, **** them as they are just looking for an easy way out of male prison.

Note. I do not include transmen in this as they don't kick up a fuss about wanting to be in with the males, or don't seem to. Seems its just about getting the 'easier prison' so to speak.

[Vicky.]

Also there is a fair bit of evidence that 'transwomen' are still a danger to women. However I say 'transwomen' as it tends to be just guys dressed in 'womens' clothes, or guys with a fetish for 'dressing as female', but how to tell these apart from 'genuine' trans women? Unfortunately those kind of people are actually classed as 'transgender' these days. Its a little silly. Even I am classed as trans as I have no feeling of being a woman..I just feel like myself. Which apparently makes me 'agender' and at the same time, puts me under the trans umbrella :laugh:

[Withano]

Maybe they could desist from breaking the law, then they wouldn't have to go to prison. It's a radical idea, I know...

Christ
I love listing things people did wrong after their suicide.

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

why is this in chat and games :umm2:

[arista]

why is this in chat and games :umm2:my fault


up at 4AM
work

[Tom4784]

Maybe they could desist from breaking the law, then they wouldn't have to go to prison. It's a radical idea, I know...

It's the fault of the prisons for failing to protect their most vulnerable prisoners, whether it's suicide or murder, they have failed in their duty of care.

[Livia]

Christ
I love listing things people did wrong after their suicide.

You give up your right to make demands once you've broken the law, in my opinion, whatever your gender, whatever your sexual preference. If transgenders are particularly at risk - which they are not looking at the statistics - then put them in isolation for their own protection. But why is it so much more tragic that a transgender person commits suicide than it us for the others who commit suicide in custody? Answer: It's not, they are all tragic cases.

[Livia]

It's the fault of the prisons for failing to protect their most vulnerable prisoners, whether it's suicide or murder, they have failed in their duty of care.

They have failed in their duty of care for decades... but it's only a problem when transgender people die?

[Brillopad]

Transgender Folks must stay Out of UK Jails
sadly 4 have Died



Ref: BBC World News TV 5:42AM

No, many get killed in jail as they are full of dangerous people, so best to avoid indulging in behaviour likely to send you there. Transgender inmates are no different and should not be given special treatment.

[user104658]

Poor mental health / disregard for mental health issues in general, and crime, are linked more than most people care to admit. The systemic failings are occurring long, long before the stage of someone being in prison. That applies across the board. People are looking to solve problems in all the wrong places.

Of course, as always, it's lovely to see all of the outpourings of empathy being offered. "They shudn't have did a crime then lol". But that of course is the majority opinion of simple simon public and so we come nicely back around to the reasons that these systemic failures are happening in the first place; people have little or zero desire to understand, much less care about, anyone who "isn't like them".

[Livia]

Poor mental health / disregard for mental health issues in general, and crime, are linked more than most people care to admit. The systemic failings are occurring long, long before the stage of someone being in prison. That applies across the board. People are looking to solve problems in all the wrong places.

Of course, as always, it's lovely to see all of the outpourings of empathy being offered. "They shudn't have did a crime then lol". But that of course is the majority opinion of simple simon public and so we come nicely back around to the reasons that these systemic failures are happening in the first place; people have little or zero desire to understand, much less care about, anyone who "isn't like them".

As I myself made that comment - although the missspelling and poor grammar in the paraphrasing are entirely yours - I must conclude that you regard me as "simple Simon public". In which case I expect your post to be removed any minute now according to the forum rules.

I think EVERYONE who made the comment about not doing the crime if you can't do the time, agrees that transgenders are not a special case. ALL prisoners with mental health issues should be treated the same.

If you look at the background of the particular case mentioned, you will see that this person did not identify as one thing or another until after the crime was committed. But of course, as they now identify as transgender, are we all supposed to take that at face value? Because it seems to me that some imagine that if you identify as transgender you are above reproach. Which seems a little bit of a stupid stance to take.

[Kizzy]

Poor mental health / disregard for mental health issues in general, and crime, are linked more than most people care to admit. The systemic failings are occurring long, long before the stage of someone being in prison. That applies across the board. People are looking to solve problems in all the wrong places.

Of course, as always, it's lovely to see all of the outpourings of empathy being offered. "They shudn't have did a crime then lol". But that of course is the majority opinion of simple simon public and so we come nicely back around to the reasons that these systemic failures are happening in the first place; people have little or zero desire to understand, much less care about, anyone who "isn't like them".

I'd agree it's a groupthink perspective generated by right wing media outlets to see those in prison as 'less than' and as such any fate that befalls them is squarely on their shoulders.

[Tom4784]

They have failed in their duty of care for decades... but it's only a problem when transgender people die?

When did I say that it's only a problem when it involves transgender people? In fact I used the words 'vulnerable people' which suggests that I'm talking about anyone at risk in a prison.

[Brillopad]

Poor mental health / disregard for mental health issues in general, and crime, are linked more than most people care to admit. The systemic failings are occurring long, long before the stage of someone being in prison. That applies across the board. People are looking to solve problems in all the wrong places.

Of course, as always, it's lovely to see all of the outpourings of empathy being offered. "They shudn't have did a crime then lol". But that of course is the majority opinion of simple simon public and so we come nicely back around to the reasons that these systemic failures are happening in the first place; people have little or zero desire to understand, much less care about, anyone who "isn't like them".

The subject was about transgender prisoners who may or may not have mental health issues. I think the point being made is that many prisoners have 'problems' and may be at increased risk in that environment but why should transgender prisoners specifically receive special treatment.

[Livia]

When did I say that it's only a problem when it involves transgender people? In fact I used the words 'vulnerable people' which suggests that I'm talking about anyone at risk in a prison.

You didn't. But the tone of the thread suggests some people do. It's probably a groupthink thing.

[Brillopad]

I'd agree it's a groupthink perspective generated by right wing media outlets to see those in prison as 'less than' and as such any fate that befalls them is squarely on their shoulders.

I think you think purely in terms of 'left-wing and right-wing' - there seems to be no middle ground for you, when in reality most people fall somewhere in the middle.

[Kizzy]

You didn't. But the tone of the thread suggests some people do. It's probably a groupthink thing.

I don't think it's an issue affecting only those transitioning or transitioned either, for clarification nowhere in my post does it suggest that.

[Kizzy]

I think you think purely in terms of 'left-wing and right-wing' - there seems to be no middle ground for you, when in reality most people fall somewhere in the middle.

I mentioned right wing in terms of the media...not people.

[user104658]

As I myself made that comment - although the missspelling and poor grammar in the paraphrasing are entirely yours - I must conclude that you regard me as "simple Simon public". In which case I expect your post to be removed any minute now according to the forum rules.


I obviously don't think you're stupid or anywhere near to it, but yes, I do think that my second paragraph applies. You seem to be very clear in THIS thread that if someone is in prison it is entirely their own fault and if they didn't want to suffer (or die?) they just should have kept their nose clean.

Except...

Hold on...

This is coming from the same person who only a few days ago was quite adamant that "soldiers are just people" and that a young soldier shouldn't go to prison for losing his cool and shooting an unarmed prisoner. That the moral considerations of his personal circumstance should over-rule the cold hard letter of the law and he should be pardoned.

The two notions are in direct contradiction. You have no idea why these prisoners (or any prisoner) is behind bars or what their life circumstances, or the circumstances of their crimes, are. Importantly, you declare quite proudly that it doesn't matter; "You give up your right to make demands once you've broken the law, in my opinion". Confused is all. :shrug:


I think EVERYONE who made the comment about not doing the crime if you can't do the time, agrees that transgenders are not a special case. ALL prisoners with mental health issues should be treated the same.

Of course they should. But the point to make there is that they should all be treated with consideration and understanding, not that trans people should "put up and shut up because everyone else has to".

If you look at the background of the particular case mentioned, you will see that this person did not identify as one thing or another until after the crime was committed. But of course, as they now identify as transgender, are we all supposed to take that at face value? Because it seems to me that some imagine that if you identify as transgender you are above reproach. Which seems a little bit of a stupid stance to take.

That seems like an absolutely massive leap, and I haven't seen anyone even vaguely hint at this?

[Niamh.]

Whilst I do have massive sympathy for transgender people and understand the safety and comfort concerns for transgender prisoners, the safety and yes comfort of female inmates shouldn't be disregarded either.

[DemolitionRed]

Our prisons are too full to start making more exceptions, sorry.

Your kidding. Our prisons are being privatized and the private system get paid per head.

[DemolitionRed]

Ex Military form the largest occupational group in prison in England and Wales.


3.5 per cent of England and Wales’ prison population are ex-military personnel – that’s nearly 3,000 prisoners
Of these:
99.6 per cent were male
51 per cent were aged 45 or older
77 per cent were ex-Army
15 per cent were ex-Naval Service
8 per cent were ex-RAF
The highest proportion of ex-Service personnel were located in high security prisons

[arista]

Your kidding. Our prisons are being privatized and the private system get paid per head.


Yes that's what they hope
once all contracts have transferred

Of course the recent one (Riot /Fire)
is in limbo

[DemolitionRed]

Transgender people are likely to suffer from depression and gender dysphoria and are often considered a high suicide risk. Psychotherapists give therapy to more transitioning people than any other type of group and this is for transgenders not within the prison system.

Takeing a depressed/ancious person and putting them in a volatile enviroment is not the answer. Every person should be monitered case by case and that includes transgender people.

Unfortunately in a 'for profits' prison system, this is going to get worse.

[Livia]

I obviously don't think you're stupid or anywhere near to it, but yes, I do think that my second paragraph applies. You seem to be very clear in THIS thread that if someone is in prison it is entirely their own fault and if they didn't want to suffer (or die?) they just should have kept their nose clean.

Except...

Hold on...

This is coming from the same person who only a few days ago was quite adamant that "soldiers are just people" and that a young soldier shouldn't go to prison for losing his cool and shooting an unarmed prisoner. That the moral considerations of his personal circumstance should over-rule the cold hard letter of the law and he should be pardoned.

The two notions are in direct contradiction. You have no idea why these prisoners (or any prisoner) is behind bars or what their life circumstances, or the circumstances of their crimes, are. Importantly, you declare quite proudly that it doesn't matter; "You give up your right to make demands once you've broken the law, in my opinion". Confused is all. :shrug:




Of course they should. But the point to make there is that they should all be treated with consideration and understanding, not that trans people should "put up and shut up because everyone else has to".



That seems like an absolutely massive leap, and I haven't seen anyone even vaguely hint at this?


This is a discussion about transgender people demanding special rights once they've committed a crime.

The thread to which you refer regarding service personnel was on a completely different topic and, as far as I'm aware, the services of the transgender community isn't often called for in a war zone.

Obviously I could trawl through the forum and pick out bits where you say one thing on one subject and then appear to contradict it with your comment on another subject. But that is tedious and muddies the water where a debate is concerned.

Regarding your last paragraph. Yes, ALL prisoners should be treated the same. They are there for punishment, but that doesn't mean their needs should be met, both physical and emotional. No one group should be singled out for preferential treatment because they might have suffered.

[Livia]

I don't think it's an issue affecting only those transitioning or transitioned either, for clarification nowhere in my post does it suggest that.

I was replying to Dezzy, not you.

[Kizzy]

Transgender people are likely to suffer from depression and gender dysphoria and are often considered a high suicide risk. Psychotherapists give therapy to more transitioning people than any other type of group and this is for transgenders not within the prison system.

Takeing a depressed/ancious person and putting them in a volatile enviroment is not the answer. Every person should be monitered case by case and that includes transgender people.

Unfortunately in a 'for profits' prison system, this is going to get worse.

The prison service is in as good a shape as the NHS I would say, which is a damn shame for all the good people working within the prison system that sees the terrible decline in the service.

[Kizzy]

I was replying to Dezzy, not you.

Since when does that prohibit anyone replying to a post?

[Livia]

Since when does that prohibit anyone replying to a post?

It doesn't in most cases. Except that you said... "... for clarification nowhere in my post does it suggest that" implying that I'd said something about your post in my reply to Dezzy. Which I didn't.

[Kizzy]

It doesn't in most cases. Except that you said... "... for clarification nowhere in my post does it suggest that" implying that I'd said something about your post in my reply to Dezzy. Which I didn't.

You used the word 'groupthink' I have also used that word prior to you today, I didn't want to presume you were referring to me which is why I said for clarification. If you weren't then no worries.

[Vicky.]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/soham-child-killer-ian-huntley-9626220

Was only a matter of time tbh. Maybe this will wake people up to the utter crazyness that is 'identification' over sex. Anyone who didn't think this would be abused is ****ing kidding themselves.

[Jamie89]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/soham-child-killer-ian-huntley-9626220

Was only a matter of time tbh. Maybe this will wake people up to the utter crazyness that is 'identification' over sex. Anyone who didn't think this would be abused is ****ing kidding themselves.

Seems to be mostly hearsay at the moment but if it's true that he wants to undergo a sex change for the purpose of moving to a women's prison then that's obviously crazy. I'd offer though that this would be a very extreme case and not at all representative of ordinary people who go through sex changes for the reason that they identify as the opposite sex. Any system can be abused, so even if it does happen in some cases I think it's extremely unlikely that it would become common place for prisoners to go to the extremes of sex-reassignment surgery to get into a different prison.

[Vicky.]

to go to the extremes of sex-reassignment surgery

Except thats not actually needed..hormones and a 'female' appearance is all. SRS is not a requirement...

[Jamie89]

Except thats not actually needed..hormones and a 'female' appearance is all. SRS is not a requirement...

Ah I didn't realise that tbh. With Ian Huntley's case though, the article suggests that he wants to undergo a full sex change procedure, if he doesn't need to do that in order to move to a women's prison then it's probably a genuine case otherwise surely he wouldn't go that far?

[Vicky.]

Ah I didn't realise that tbh. With Ian Huntley's case though, the article suggests that he wants to undergo a full sex change procedure, if he doesn't need to do that in order to move to a women's prison then it's probably a genuine case otherwise surely he wouldn't go that far?

A while back there was a petition (which I signed at the time) about moving a transgender prisoner to female prison. I was under the impression SRS had been undergone. Came out later that it had not been, and that the person was actually convicted of violence against females, had a history of it.. and was also working as an escort and using 'her' penis for money before going to jail which kind of goes against the whole dysphoric notion. So yeah...I did think this but its obviously not true.

I don't think he will get a sex change. But you no longer (if you ever did need to..) have to have SRS to be 'legally' a woman and shifted to female jail.

[smudgie]

My heart bleeds, for the actual victim.