Anti-Islam Hungarian village says white nationalists from across Europe are welcome T

[Cherie]

Anti-Islam Hungarian village says white nationalists from across Europe are welcome
The village of Asotthalom has banned Muslim clothing, the call to prayer and 'gay propaganda'.
Tom Porter By Tom Porter
February 7, 2017 15:32 GMT
Updated 7 hr ago

ungarian soldiers control the metal fence-saved border line at Asotthalom border station of the Hungarian-Serbian border on February 24, 2016.
Hungarian soldiers control the metal fence-saved border line at Asotthalom border station of the Hungarian-Serbian border on February 24, 2016.Getty Images
A village in Hungary that has banned Muslim dress and "homosexual propaganda" aims attract white nationalists from throughout Europe.

The town of Asotthalom is located in a remote part of southern Hungary near the Serbian border, and in November announced it was banning mosque construction, the use of a muezzin at prayer times and the wearing of clothes such as the niqab.

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Echoing the language of Russian president and far-right icon Vladimir Putin, the community also announced a ban on "homosexual propaganda."

Now town mayor Laszlo Toroczkai has said the town hopes to attract other Christian Europeans opposed to multiculturalism.

"We primarily welcome people from western Europe - people who wouldn't like to live in a multicultural society," Toroczkai, who is also a deputy leader of the far right Jobbik party, told the BBC. "We wouldn't like to attract Muslims to the village."

"It's very important for the village to preserve its traditions. If large numbers of Muslims arrived here, they would not be able to integrate into the Christian community.

"We can see large Muslim communities in western Europe that haven't been able to integrate – and we don't want to have the same experience here," he says. "I'd like Europe to belong to Europeans, Asia to belong to Asians and Africa to belong to Africans. Simple as that."

Knights Templar International, a white nationalist organisation which counts as members former BNP boss Nick Griffin and former treasurer Jim Dowson, reportedly has close ties to Toroczkai, and has exorted sympathisers to settle in Hungary.

Europe has seen a surge of support for far right parties since the 2015 refugee crisis, in which millions of Middle Eastern and African refugees entered Europe, many passing through Hungary on their way to Germany and northern European countries with open asylum policies.

Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban has adopted a staunchly anti-immigrant stance, building a fence along the border with Serbia to keep refugees out and refusing to take the country's EU quota of those granted asylum. On Tuesday (7 February), Orban announced plans to hold refugees in camps until their asylum applications are processed.

Toroczkai previously released a video where, surrounded by burly men dressed in camouflage, he warned refugees not to attempt to enter Hungary. The town has reportedly set up its own paramilitary style border patrols to complement to government patrols along the border fence.

The Hungarian Islamic Community said in November that that a letter appealing to Orban to take action against Asotthalom and uphold the rights of Hungarian Muslims went unanswered. Lawyers claim the controversial by-laws contravene the Hungarian constitution, and the government is due to rule on them in mid-February.

But for now, Mr Toroczkai said the town would remain "white, European, Christian."

:umm2:

[Jack_]

Who's gonna make the joke first then lads

[MB.]

Bet this is all that bloody EU's fault somehow

[user104658]

I think I just heard someone reading this and having an orgasm.

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://m.popkey.co/3ca230/O96XY.gif

[Livia]

It's quite like what the Saudis do, isn't it.

Although they're allowed to speak freely about their racism, anti-Semitism, misogyny and homophobia. I mean, that's their culture, isn't it. It's only Western countries who can have their culture diluted and can't speak out or they're accused of all kinds of stuff. And what happens when people aren't allowed to protect their own culture and watch people give it away? The Hard Right sweep in and look like a solution.

[DemolitionRed]

But for now, Mr Toroczkai said the town would remain "white, European, Christian."

:umm2:

So no Jewish people either?

[Livia]

So no Jewish people either?

Most of the Holocaust survivors alive today are Hungarian. There's a large Jewish population in Hungary, although they're not committing terrorist attrocities across the world so aren't quite in the same league as your Islamist.

I wonder what made you bring that up...? Like it wasn't obvious.

[Cherie]

It's quite like what the Saudis do, isn't it.

Although they're allowed to speak freely about their racism, anti-Semitism, misogyny and homophobia. I mean, that's their culture, isn't it. It's only Western countries who can have their culture diluted and can't speak out or they're accused of all kinds of stuff. And what happens when people aren't allowed to protect their own culture and watch people give it away? The Hard Right sweep in and look like a solution.

That's a good point.

[user104658]

It's quite like what the Saudis do, isn't it.

Although they're allowed to speak freely about their racism, anti-Semitism, misogyny and homophobia. I mean, that's their culture, isn't it. It's only Western countries who can have their culture diluted and can't speak out or they're accused of all kinds of stuff. And what happens when people aren't allowed to protect their own culture and watch people give it away? The Hard Right sweep in and look like a solution.

The Saudis shouldn't be doing it either, obviously, but that doesn't translate to:

"Well the Saudis get to do it so why shouldn't we all do it!" :shrug:

[Livia]

The Saudis shouldn't be doing it either, obviously, but that doesn't translate to:

"Well the Saudis get to do it so why shouldn't we all do it!" :shrug:

No one's outraged about it or there would be a thread.

[Niamh.]

No one's outraged about it or there would be a thread.

Because it's not new information, that's always happened there, what's happening now, is more "progressive" societies are starting to go backwards and that is more scary than anything imo Lets all becomes hostile people haters yay

[Brillopad]

https://m.popkey.co/3ca230/O96XY.gif

:joker::joker::joker:

[Brillopad]

The Saudis shouldn't be doing it either, obviously, but that doesn't translate to:

"Well the Saudis get to do it so why shouldn't we all do it!" :shrug:

So to translate - one rule for one and another for everyone else.

[Livia]

Because it's not new information, that's always happened there, what's happening now, is more "progressive" societies are starting to go backwards and that is more scary than anything imo Lets all becomes hostile people haters yay

Eastern Europe has quite a history of bigotry. It's not a new thing.

I believe that the West has had a change of culture foisted upon them and that's why this is happpening. I have never for one minute suggested it's anything but a bad thing.

[Cherie]

Because it's not new information, that's always happened there, what's happening now, is more "progressive" societies are starting to go backwards and that is more scary than anything imo Lets all becomes hostile people haters yay

The point is that people's concerns are not being listened to and that is why we are regressing, school places, social care, NHS wait lists, housing, transport, it is all becoming a huge mess, pay rises are a thing of the past, job security is a thing of the past, if the politicians addressed the situation rather than crying "racist" at every turn, we might not be brexiting or be dealing with Trump

[user104658]

So to translate - one rule for one and another for everyone else.



That wasn't my point at all. My point was;

"Bob kicks cats.
Bob has big friends so no one can stop him doing what he wants.
It's not OK that Bob kicks cats.
Ted sees Bob kicking a cat.
Ted SHOULD NOT decide that it is now OK for him to kick cats, just because he has seen Bob kicking cats and getting away with it."


I fear that this probably still isn't simple enough though. It's called an allegory, and I am not suggesting that this hungarian village is populated by cats. Just to be clear. I know it gets confusing.

[Livia]

Thank you TS, for demonstrating categorically why Serious Debates is no longer a fun place to spend time.

[Kizzy]

The Saudis shouldn't be doing it either, obviously, but that doesn't translate to:

"Well the Saudis get to do it so why shouldn't we all do it!" :shrug:

:worship:

It couldn't have been our obsession with imperialism in the 1950s that helped shape Saudi today? :idc:

[DemolitionRed]

Most of the Holocaust survivors alive today are Hungarian. There's a large Jewish population in Hungary, although they're not committing terrorist attrocities across the world so aren't quite in the same league as your Islamist.

I wonder what made you bring that up...? Like it wasn't obvious.

'My' Islamist ?

What made me bring that up was, you appear all too ready to support this town ban to only allow in white Christians and yet you yourself are Jewish. You of all people know what people suffered in the holocaust and how your people were so ruthlessly and needlessly persecuted and yet you think its okay to do the same to others?

Regardless of all the Jews that live in Hungary, this town clearly doesn't want them living there and neither does it want mixed race people like myself or black people like some of my family members.

Racism is abhorrent no matter what form it comes in and the comments on these boards of late appear to be suspiciously far right.

[Cherie]

Ironically, you're nowhere near intelligent enough to start trying to accurately "translate" my posts into dumbed-down bites. :idc:

That wasn't my point at all. My point was;

"Bob kicks cats.
Bob has big friends so no one can stop him doing what he wants.
It's not OK that Bob kicks cats.
Ted sees Bob kicking a cat.
Ted SHOULD NOT decide that it is now OK for him to kick cats, just because he has seen Bob kicking cats and getting away with it."


I fear that this probably still isn't simple enough though. It's called an allegory, and I am not suggesting that this hungarian village is populated by cats. Just to be clear. I know it gets confusing.

I took a different angle, the point I took from it is that they do it, but nobody EVER says anything about it, its not that we want to do the same or be the same because we don't, it's just ignored and accepted because that is "what they do", the attitude is "it's their culture innit" or GB caused it :laugh:

[Kizzy]

That's a good point.

Hang on, you're Irish you can't comment on cultures being deposed if the English are the ones doing the deposing.

Not that British culture is under threat in any way, racism is not a quaint English cultural norm.....Oh, wait :/

[DemolitionRed]

The Saudis shouldn't be doing it either, obviously, but that doesn't translate to:

"Well the Saudis get to do it so why shouldn't we all do it!" :shrug:

Exactly, two wrongs do not make a right

[Brillopad]

Ironically, you're nowhere near intelligent enough to start trying to accurately "translate" my posts into dumbed-down bites. :idc:

That wasn't my point at all. My point was;

"Bob kicks cats.
Bob has big friends so no one can stop him doing what he wants.
It's not OK that Bob kicks cats.
Ted sees Bob kicking a cat.
Ted SHOULD NOT decide that it is now OK for him to kick cats, just because he has seen Bob kicking cats and getting away with it."


I fear that this probably still isn't simple enough though. It's called an allegory, and I am not suggesting that this hungarian village is populated by cats. Just to be clear. I know it gets confusing.

Blatant insults such as the above, that you quite often use, are not the tools of the intelligent. I think you like to over-estimate your own intellectual capacity somewhat.

[user104658]

I took a different angle, the point I took from it is that they do it, but nobody EVER says anything about it, its not that we want to do the same or be the same because we don't, it's just ignored and accepted because that is "what they do", the attitude is "it's their culture innit" or GB caused it :laugh:

The actions of Saudi are being used to justify, or lessen, the same actions of these Hungarian Neo-Nazis. It's also quite obviously untrue that "no one ever says anything about it" when it comes to Saudi, or the comparison wouldn't be so quickly drawn in the first place.

[Livia]

'My' Islamist ?

What made me bring that up was, you appear all too ready to support this town ban to only allow in white Christians and yet you yourself are Jewish. You of all people know what people suffered in the holocaust and how your people were so ruthlessly and needlessly persecuted and yet you think its okay to do the same to others?

Regardless of all the Jews that live in Hungary, this town clearly doesn't want them living there and neither does it want mixed race people like myself or black people like some of my family members.

Racism is abhorrent no matter what form it comes in and the comments on these boards of late appear to be suspiciously far right.

Your Islamists. It's a turn of phrase. You must have heard it before.

You brought up the Jewish community simply because I am a Jew. How tactless of you. And I am not supporting these racists, I am saying... and I'll reapeat it in plain English... if you're going to insist people change their culture, you need to make sure they're okay with it before you foist change on them or this Right turn will happen. I never said I supported it. You have to try to stop pigeon-holing peole from a few lines on a Big Brother forum.

So thanks for the Jewish comparison, it was very... expected.

[Livia]

The actions of Saudi are being used to justify, or lessen, the same actions of these Hungarian Neo-Nazis. It's also quite obviously untrue that "no one ever says anything about it" when it comes to Saudi, or the comparison wouldn't be so quickly drawn in the first place.

The actions of the Saudies are being used as a comparison. No one is justifying anyting, no matter which way you try to spin it.

[user104658]

Blatant insults such as the above, that you quite often use, are not the tools of the intelligent. I think you like to over-estimate your own intellectual capacity somewhat.

They may not be intelligent, but they're at least more honest than the hilariously thinly-veiled "covert" attempts made by others, I would say. Can't think where I last saw one of those.

[user104658]

The actions of the Saudies are being used as a comparison. No one is justifying anyting, no matter which way you try to spin it.

If it wasn't being used as a justification then it has absolutely no bearing, at all, on the rights or wrongs of this Hungarian village. So would be completely irrelevant to the thread.

[Brillopad]

They may not be intelligent, but they're at least more honest than the hilariously thinly-veiled "covert" attempts made by others, I would say. Can't think where I last saw one of those.

Too honest maybe! Dead giveaway.

[Livia]

If it wasn't being used as a justification then it has absolutely no bearing, at all, on the rights or wrongs of this Hungarian village. So would be completely irrelevant to the thread.

You think I'm supporting the far Right? I made a fair and reasonable comparison, but if muddies the waters of your argument so you go on the offensive.

Jesus ****ing Christ. I was called a liar yesterday. Today I'm a bigot.

And incidentally, you're not the police of what's relevant in a debate.

[Kizzy]

Your Islamists. It's a turn of phrase. You must have heard it before.

You brought up the Jewish community simply because I am a Jew. How tactless of you. And I am not supporting these racists, I am saying... and I'll reapeat it in plain English... if you're going to insist people change their culture, you need to make sure they're okay with it before you foist change on them or this Right turn will happen. I never said I supported it. You have to try to stop pigeon-holing peole from a few lines on a Big Brother forum.

So thanks for the Jewish comparison, it was very... expected.

Hold on, mentioning the Jewish community is tactless because you yourself are Jewish?

That makes no sense.

What do we know of the advocates of the far right in Hungary, do they include the Jewish community or are they seen as alien too? I think that is the point raised.
How can it be seen as anything positive by yourself if it potentially affects those from your own faith that may once again be viewed as alien.

Personally any far right collaborations and concentrations in any given geographical area would terrify me.

[Livia]

Hold on, mentioning the Jewish community is tactless because you yourself are Jewish?

That makes no sense.

What do we know of the advocates of the far right in Hungary, do they include the Jewish community or are they seen as alien too? I think that is the point raised.
How can it be seen as anything positive by yourself if it potentially affects those from your own faith that may once again be viewed as alien.

Personally any far right collaborations and concentrations in any given geographical area would terrify me.

Yeah, I had a feeling you'd be okay with it.

[Brillopad]

Hold on, mentioning the Jewish community is tactless because you yourself are Jewish?

That makes no sense.

What do we know of the advocates of the far right in Hungary, do they include the Jewish community or are they seen as alien too? I think that is the point raised.
How can it be seen as anything positive by yourself if it potentially affects those from your own faith that may once again be viewed as alien.

Personally any far right collaborations and concentrations in any given geographical area would terrify me.

As would any far left collaborations/concentrations anywhere terrify many. Dictatorships of any kind are not acceptable and should not be tolerated.

[Livia]

As would any far left collaborations/concentrations anywhere terrify many. Dictatorships of any kind are not acceptable and should not be tolerated.

Quite so.

Saying something is inevitable given the present circumstances isn't the same as supporting it. Far Right and far Left are the same meat with different gravy. Both equally terrifying...

[Kizzy]

If we could stick to the one in discussion for now and not delve into the realms of hypotheticals... thanks.

[Livia]

Kizzy's worried about the far Right.

You can't mention the far Left though, or you she'll ask you not to delve into the realm of hypotheticals.

Great debate....

[Kizzy]

Kizzy's worried about the far Right.

You can't mention the far Left though, or you she'll ask you not to delve into the realm of hypotheticals.

Great debate....

Fine you drag it as far into fantasy as you like just don't expect me to follow the straw man dorothy.... :laugh:

[Brillopad]

If we could stick to the one in discussion for now and not delve into the realms of hypotheticals... thanks.

Yes ma'am.

[Brillopad]

Kizzy's worried about the far Right.

You can't mention the far Left though, or you she'll ask you not to delve into the realm of hypotheticals.

Great debate....

Spot on.

[Livia]

Fine you drag it as far into fantasy as you like just don't expect me to follow the straw man dorothy.... :laugh:



You're just put out because Dorothy dropped a house on your sister :laugh:

[Niamh.]

Put down the handbags ladies and stop getting personal/insulting eachother :nono:

[Livia]

Put down the handbags ladies and stop getting personal/insulting eachother :nono:

Niamh... we both used :laugh: !!

[Niamh.]

Niamh... we both used :laugh: !!

:fist:

[Kizzy]

Put down the handbags ladies and stop getting personal/insulting eachother :nono:

Hey, the straw man debate reference was apt....APT I SAY! :hmph:

[Livia]

:fist:
:fan:

[DemolitionRed]

Your Islamists. It's a turn of phrase. You must have heard it before.
No I haven't heard it before. What does it mean?

You brought up the Jewish community simply because I am a Jew. How tactless of you. Why tactless? As a none white person I find the leaders of that town abhorrent and frightening. You are a Jew so why don't you find such a thing abhorrent and frightening too?


And I am not supporting these racists, I am saying... and I'll reapeat it in plain English... if you're going to insist people change their culture, you need to make sure they're okay with it before you foist change on them or this Right turn will happen. I never said I supported it. You have to try to stop pigeon-holing peole from a few lines on a Big Brother forum.

So thanks for the Jewish comparison, it was very... expected.

I lived in Hackney knowing that my Orthodox Jewish neighbours wanted nothing to do with me. I accepted the way they practised their culture which was very different to mine. The Jewish people of Hackney don't insist on people changing their culture to be more fitting with their own and so they didn't need to approach their borough council to check that would be ok!

I also lived just off Mile End Rd and although my Muslim neighbours were cordial with me, I had to accept that their culture was very different to my own. Just like the Jews, the Muslim people of Mile End Rd don't insist on people changing their culture to be more fitting with their own and so they don't need to approach their borough council and check if that's ok.

I find it strange that in large mixed communities we all seem to just get on with things and yet when I visit relatives in Harrogate which has a majority white Christian community, I meet racists by the dozen.

[Tom4784]

You don't respond to extremism with radicalisation, it's rather terrifying that we live in one of the most progressive countries in the world yet there are people who would gladly slide back to the dark ages in order to be petty.

If you want the definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face than look no further than this thread.

[Livia]

No I haven't heard it before. What does it mean?

Why tactless? As a none white person I find the leaders of that town abhorrent and frightening. You are a Jew so why don't you find such a thing abhorrent and frightening too?



I lived in Hackney knowing that my Orthodox Jewish neighbours wanted nothing to do with me. I accepted the way they practised their culture which was very different to mine. The Jewish people of Hackney don't insist on people changing their culture to be more fitting with their own and so they didn't need to approach their borough council to check that would be ok!

I also lived just off Mile End Rd and although my Muslim neighbours were cordial with me, I had to accept that their culture was very different to my own. Just like the Jews, the Muslim people of Mile End Rd don't insist on people changing their culture to be more fitting with their own and so they don't need to approach their borough council and check if that's ok.

I find it strange that in large mixed communities we all seem to just get on with things and yet when I visit relatives in Harrogate which has a majority white Christian community, I meet racists by the dozen.

What has all this got to do with my points in this thread? Nothing.

Gay people died in the holocaust, why not drag them into this on the strength of their homosexuality. Because it's not relevant, that's why.

[Brillopad]

You don't respond to extremism with radicalisation, it's rather terrifying that we live in one of the most progressive countries in the world yet there are people who would gladly slide back to the dark ages in order to be petty.

If you want the definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face than look no further than this thread.

Whose being radical. I along with many others consider the extreme left and PC brigade to be radical so who decides this exactly.

I would perhaps describe our country currently as progressive with the potential of slipping - and I wouldn't put that down to the fault of those who express concerns about certain issues going on in their countries.

[Crimson Dynamo]

No I haven't heard it before. What does it mean?

Why tactless? As a none white person I find the leaders of that town abhorrent and frightening. You are a Jew so why don't you find such a thing abhorrent and frightening too?



I lived in Hackney knowing that my Orthodox Jewish neighbours wanted nothing to do with me. I accepted the way they practised their culture which was very different to mine. The Jewish people of Hackney don't insist on people changing their culture to be more fitting with their own and so they didn't need to approach their borough council to check that would be ok!

I also lived just off Mile End Rd and although my Muslim neighbours were cordial with me, I had to accept that their culture was very different to my own. Just like the Jews, the Muslim people of Mile End Rd don't insist on people changing their culture to be more fitting with their own and so they don't need to approach their borough council and check if that's ok.

I find it strange that in large mixed communities we all seem to just get on with things and yet when I visit relatives in Harrogate which has a majority white Christian community, I meet racists by the dozen.
How convenient for you in the context of this debate..

[Tom4784]

Whose being radical. I along with many others consider the extreme left and PC brigade to be radical so who decides this exactly.

I would perhaps describe our country currently as progressive with the potential of slipping - and I wouldn't put that down to the fault of those who express concerns about certain issues going on in their countries.

I'm referring to the whole attitude of 'Saudi Arabia does something backwards so WHY CAN'T WE?' that's been rather prevalent in this thread, that should have been obvious.

[Livia]

I'm referring to the whole attitude of 'Saudi Arabia does something backwards so WHY CAN'T WE?' that's been rather prevalent in this thread, that should have been obvious.

No one has said that. I compared the fact that Saudi is a ridiculous, backward regime harking back to the dark ages... to a village in Hungary who are refusing to take immigrants. Both are stupid... my point was that a village full of white people turning away incomers because they are different from them, is no worse than a country full of Muslims who have 100,000 air-conditioned tents standing empty because they don't want immigrants who are different from them.

I think that's clear enough now. I hope no one's still labouring under the misapprehension that I support the Hungarians because frankly having to explain myself over and over to people intelligent enough to have got it in the first place, is tiresome.

[Alf]

Your Islamists. It's a turn of phrase. You must have heard it before.

You brought up the Jewish community simply because I am a Jew. How tactless of you. And I am not supporting these racists, I am saying... and I'll reapeat it in plain English... if you're going to insist people change their culture, you need to make sure they're okay with it before you foist change on them or this Right turn will happen. I never said I supported it. You have to try to stop pigeon-holing peole from a few lines on a Big Brother forum.

So thanks for the Jewish comparison, it was very... expected.Such madness that you had to explain that. They seriously thought you was talking about them.:laugh:

[Niamh.]

Such madness that you had to explain that. They seriously thought you was talking about them.:laugh:

I actually never heard that either :laugh:

[Alf]

I actually never heard that either :laugh:You need to watch some Alf Garnett, he uses it a lot.

To quote him

"The reason your Everton and your Liverpool are so successful, is because they're being subsidised by the DHSS"

[Brillopad]

I'm referring to the whole attitude of 'Saudi Arabia does something backwards so WHY CAN'T WE?' that's been rather prevalent in this thread, that should have been obvious.

It was and you implied such feelings were radical. I then went on to state that allegations of radicalism could work equally well the other way.

[Crimson Dynamo]

You need to watch some Alf Garnett, he uses it a lot.

To quote him

"The reason your Everton and your Liverpool are so successful, is because they're being subsidised by the DHSS"

:joker::joker:

[Niamh.]

You need to watch some Alf Garnett, he uses it a lot.

To quote him

"The reason your Everton and your Liverpool are so successful, is because they're being subsidised by the DHSS"

aaaahhh ok I get it now, I thought Livia meant that "your Islamist" was some sort of a phrase, like specifically the two words together, this is why I don't post in SDs too much, I can't understand half of what's going on :laugh:

[DemolitionRed]

Such madness that you had to explain that. They seriously thought you was talking about them.:laugh:

'The frequent linkage of the term "Islamist" to violence and denial of religious and human rights is also strongly promoted by Islamophobic groups and individuals who seek to launch rhetorical attacks on Islam and Muslims, without the public censure that would normally accompany such bigoted attacks on any other faith'

Unfortunately, the term "Islamist" has become shorthand for "Muslims we don't like." It is currently used in an almost exclusively pejorative context and is often coupled with the term "extremist," giving it an even more negative slant.

So to use the words "your" Islamists implies what Alf?

[Brillopad]

'My' Islamist ?

What made me bring that up was, you appear all too ready to support this town ban to only allow in white Christians and yet you yourself are Jewish. You of all people know what people suffered in the holocaust and how your people were so ruthlessly and needlessly persecuted and yet you think its okay to do the same to others?

Regardless of all the Jews that live in Hungary, this town clearly doesn't want them living there and neither does it want mixed race people like myself or black people like some of my family members.

Racism is abhorrent no matter what form it comes in and the comments on these boards of late appear to be suspiciously far right.

You perceive what you want to perceive.

[DemolitionRed]

You perceive what you want to perceive.

Ok so I'm a Muslim:hee:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Ok so I'm a Muslim:hee:

*tweets Donald to extend ban to Tibb SD

[VanessaFeltz.]

Hungaria is also the only country to hold a referandum on letting immigrants to the country or not.

[Alf]

'The frequent linkage of the term "Islamist" to violence and denial of religious and human rights is also strongly promoted by Islamophobic groups and individuals who seek to launch rhetorical attacks on Islam and Muslims, without the public censure that would normally accompany such bigoted attacks on any other faith'

Unfortunately, the term "Islamist" has become shorthand for "Muslims we don't like." It is currently used in an almost exclusively pejorative context and is often coupled with the term "extremist," giving it an even more negative slant.

So to use the words "your" Islamists implies what Alf?An Islamist. That's what it means, in this case. But some people use the word "your" instead of An. It's just a word some people use when describing something or someone.

But if you're searching high and low for offence, or to be offended, you'll end up making things up to reach your goal.

[Brillopad]

Because it's not new information, that's always happened there, what's happening now, is more "progressive" societies are starting to go backwards and that is more scary than anything imo Lets all becomes hostile people haters yay

And that 'progressive' rhetoric is what feeds that type of double standards. They know the modern progressive world is so far up their own a***s with their sense of progression and resulting superiority that such double standards go unchallenged.

Even progressive societies have a right to preserve their own identities and way of life but the far left have managed to make people feel so ashamed and so scared of the past that they can no longer see the wood for the trees, and in their attempt to right a wrong they are willing to abandon their own culture to appease anyone who has a different belief system.

That progressive insecurity in itself cannot go unchallenged by those with a stronger sense of worth.

[Niamh.]

And that 'progressive' rhetoric is what feeds that type of double standards. They know the modern progressive world is so far up their own a***s with their sense of progression and resulting superiority that such double standards go unchallenged.

Even progressive societies have a right to preserve their own identities and way of life but the far left have managed to make people feel so ashamed and so scared of the past that they can no longer see the wood for the trees, and in their attempt to right a wrong they are willing to abandon their own culture to appease anyone who has a different belief system.

That progressive insecurity in itself cannot go unchallenged by those with a stronger sense of worth.

Who is abandoning their own culture?

[Brillopad]

Who is abandoning their own culture?

Those giving little thought to the long-term effects of the mass immigration of cultures very different to our own. They are not and never will be compatible in their current form.

It seems to me that Western cultures have so far done all the compromising, but where does that stop.

[user104658]

It's a load of nonsense though. What culture? British (and global) culture has shifted massively over the past couple of years alone and it has absolutely **** all to do with "large immigrant communities". In fact, British culture has morphed into something practically unrecognisable in the past 6-to-12 months.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I think we should have out own village like that here, bloody Hungarians coming over here stealing all out white supremacists

:fist:

did Brexit not just happen??

[Brillopad]

It's a load of nonsense though. What culture? British (and global) culture has shifted massively over the past couple of years alone and it has absolutely **** all to do with "large immigrant communities". In fact, British culture has morphed into something practically unrecognisable in the past 6-to-12 months.

That's the problem.

[user104658]

That's the problem.
What is? What are you saying has changed it? The suggestion is that being overwhelmed with foreign cultures is what will change order culture, and I am pointing out that the good ol' British people have done a fine job of completely twisting it all by ourselves.

[Niamh.]

It's a load of nonsense though. What culture? British (and global) culture has shifted massively over the past couple of years alone and it has absolutely **** all to do with "large immigrant communities". In fact, British culture has morphed into something practically unrecognisable in the past 6-to-12 months.

You can take our lives but you'll never take our POTATOESSSSSSSSSSSSS

[Tom4784]

No one has said that. I compared the fact that Saudi is a ridiculous, backward regime harking back to the dark ages... to a village in Hungary who are refusing to take immigrants. Both are stupid... my point was that a village full of white people turning away incomers because they are different from them, is no worse than a country full of Muslims who have 100,000 air-conditioned tents standing empty because they don't want immigrants who are different from them.

I think that's clear enough now. I hope no one's still labouring under the misapprehension that I support the Hungarians because frankly having to explain myself over and over to people intelligent enough to have got it in the first place, is tiresome.

I'd argue that there's quite a difference between an area in a European country enforcing these kinds of restrictions and Saudi Arabia who are sadly still medieval in their approach to progress.

Any European settlement that engages in that kind of behavior is worrying because it shows a turn towards radicalism that's been bubbling away in the western world for the past few years. Considering that Hungary is, well not on our doorstep but on the same street so to speak, it's only natural that people would discuss it and be worried about what it signifies.

There's very little we can do about attitudes in the Middle East but a story like this does feel closer to home.

It was and you implied such feelings were radical. I then went on to state that allegations of radicalism could work equally well the other way.

That attitude is quite radical, bemoaning a country like Saudi Arabia and then using it to justify enforcing similar restrictions is also completely and utterly hypocritical.

There's nothing wrong with equality, it's certainly not radical unless you think promoting exclusivity over being inclusive. I'd have thought, given that you are a feminist, you'd understand that and there would be some common empathy there.

[Tom4784]

The whole culture argument is silly, our culture was literally built on the foundations of other cultures. If you want 'purely British' then you'd have to go back to the days of mud huts, paganism and Boudica.

Culture is a continually evolving thing, you can't stop it and nor should you.

[VanessaFeltz.]

The whole culture argument is silly, our culture was literally built on the foundations of other cultures. If you want 'purely British' then you'd have to go back to the days of mud huts, paganism and Boudica.

Culture is a continually evolving thing, you can't stop it and nor should you.

:clap1::clap1::clap1::clap1::clap1:

[Northern Monkey]

This is of course wrong.I haven't seen anyone say that this is right(scuse the pun).
It is however understandable.If the far right are going to gain traction anywhere in the west then mainland Europe is an ideal candidate at the moment.
Masses of illegal immigrants are literally flooding Europe,a section of them are Islamists and a small section of those will and have acted on it.The EU has been absolutely fecking useless at dealing with it.If the whole of Europe had a sensible immigration policy and better border controls then towns like this would be less likely to pop up.This is probably born through fear and it's not an entirely irrational fear when attacks have happened and there is a strong possibility it will happen again.This town is dealing with the problem the wrong way but i can see more stories like this appearing until the inept EU pull their finger out.It is not a mystery as to why the far right are gaining strength in Europe.

[Kizzy]

aaaahhh ok I get it now, I thought Livia meant that "your Islamist" was some sort of a phrase, like specifically the two words together, this is why I don't post in SDs too much, I can't understand half of what's going on :laugh:

It's just bad grammar, or at best a colloquialism.

[jennyjuniper]

So to translate - one rule for one and another for everyone else.

Got it in one.:wavey::thumbs:

[Brillopad]

Hungaria is also the only country to hold a referandum on letting immigrants to the country or not.

I would have thought the innate population of a country should be entitled to a say/vote on letting immigrants into the country or not.

As it is a contentious subject with the potential of having negative effects on existing citizens and/or future generations they have every right to an opinion and a say. What is wrong with that? Could it be that anyone objecting would do so because they fear the outcome.

Most democratic countries have elections to vote in a government who speak for them and the best interests of the country and its citizens. Immigration en masse has now become a very valid part of 'best interests' for many Western countries.

Muslim exremists and/or those Muslims demonstrating their antiquated and misogynistic views on women on our streets when 'parading' around them in Burkas are the main ones responsible for the increase in antiislamic feeling in the West and the increase in the numbers of people wanting to limit immigration.

If I were a Muslim I would be demonstrating against and doing more to speak up against Muslims refusing to integrate in the country they 'choose' to live.

[Livia]

Such madness that you had to explain that. They seriously thought you was talking about them.:laugh:

You need to watch some Alf Garnett, he uses it a lot.

To quote him

"The reason your Everton and your Liverpool are so successful, is because they're being subsidised by the DHSS"

Thank you very much, Alfie. Still... it gave Kizzy another chance to have a dig so... everyone's a winner.

[user104658]

If I were a Muslim I would be demonstrating against and doing more to speak up against Muslims refusing to integrate in the country they 'choose' to live.

So from this I have to assume that you currently demonstrate against the sub-communities of somewhat lawless white British people that exist mostly outside of the mainstream community, in every single town in the country?

No? Do you perhaps just get on with your own life? Is that perhaps what the generally well integrated Muslims in the UK want to do? You know... Go to work, spend time with their families, maybe have a hobby? Oh wait no they're duty bound to be political activists because after all, it's "folks like them" causing such trouble.

[Livia]

So from this I have to assume that you currently demonstrate against the sub-communities of somewhat lawless white British people that exist mostly outside of the mainstream community, in every single town in the country?

No? Do you perhaps just get on with your own life? Is that perhaps what the generally well integrated Muslims in the UK want to do? You know... Go to work, spend time with their families, maybe have a hobby? Oh wait no they're duty bound to be political activists because after all, it's "folks like them" causing such trouble.

Comparing terrorists with "sub-communities of somewhat lawless white British people..." is kind of flawed because those sub-communities are not carrying out terrorist atrocities all over the world, particularly on other Muslims.

[Brillopad]

So from this I have to assume that you currently demonstrate against the sub-communities of somewhat lawless white British people that exist mostly outside of the mainstream community, in every single town in the country?

No? Do you perhaps just get on with your own life? Is that perhaps what the generally well integrated Muslims in the UK want to do? You know... Go to work, spend time with their families, maybe have a hobby? Oh wait no they're duty bound to be political activists because after all, it's "folks like them" causing such trouble.

I think if people are concerned about the effects such behaviours are having on them and their community they should.

From a Muslim perspective I would have thought the current depth of feeling in so many ie Brexit would make me think and maybe want to do something about the 'minority' of Muslims potentially threatening the position of other Muslims.

Many such Muslims are clearly motivated to demonstrate against Brexit and Trump but not so clearly motivated to take action against Muslims that spoil things for them. They makes me wonder about their loyalties and priorities and clearly many others feel the same.

[AProducer'sWetDream]

Comparing terrorists with "sub-communities of somewhat lawless white British people..." is kind of flawed because those sub-communities are not carrying out terrorist atrocities all over the world, particularly on other Muslims.

Quebec, Jo Cox, Dylann Roof ring any bells?

Members of these sub-communities are carrying out terrorist attacks across the western world. For some reason when a white supremacist commits an attrocity, the entire white population is not required to answer for their crimes.

[Brillopad]

Quebec, Jo Cox, Dylann Roof ring any bells?

Members of these sub-communities are carrying out terrorist attacks across the western world. For some reason when a white supremacist commits an attrocity, the entire white population is not required to answer for their crimes.

Oh I think they are as demonstrated by how such 'comparisons' are used against anyone who dares to express any concerns about mass immigration.

[Beso]

Nothing special about this. White nationialists are welcome in all europen towns and cities.:shrug:

[AProducer'sWetDream]

Oh I think they are as demonstrated by how such 'comparisons' are used against anyone who dares to express any concerns about mass immigration.

I don't see anyone comparing people concerned about immigration to these people, though. The government of this country is hell bent on ending free movement, for goodness' sake, even of they have to destroy the economy in the process. This whole idea that people who are worried about immigration are somehow labelled, attacked or shouted down and silenced- that they are somehow victims- is preposterous.

You're in the majority!!

As for my post, I was just commenting on the idea that you can't compare certain sub-communities of white people to terrorists is flawed, becaue there are terrorists who belong to those same sub-communities.

[user104658]

Comparing terrorists with "sub-communities of somewhat lawless white British people..." is kind of flawed because those sub-communities are not carrying out terrorist atrocities all over the world, particularly on other Muslims.

That's not the point at all. Merely an illustration that we all know fine well, if we're honest, that we do and should only represent ourselves and we are not responsible for the actions of others just because they fall under the same broad "grouping". Otherwise I, as a white (culturally) Christian man, would never stop apologising to everyone I encounter. But I don't apologise because I don't feel responsible in the slightest for the actions of other white blokes? They aren't me? I can fully understand why a peaceful Muslim individual living a peaceful life doesn't feel inclined to apologise for, and in fact would feel uncomfortable with the notion that they are expected to apologise for, the actions of random other Muslim individuals.

[Livia]

That's not the point at all. Merely an illustration that we all know fine well, if we're honest, that we do and should only represent ourselves and we are not responsible for the actions of others just because they fall under the same broad "grouping". Otherwise I, as a white (culturally) Christian man, would never stop apologising to everyone I encounter. But I don't apologise because I don't feel responsible in the slightest for the actions of other white blokes? They aren't me? I can fully understand why a peaceful Muslim individual living a peaceful life doesn't feel inclined to apologise for, and in fact would feel uncomfortable with the notion that they are expected to apologise for, the actions of random other Muslim individuals.

That's the comparison you made. And no, it isn't the point. We agree at last.

[user104658]

That's the comparison you made. And no, it isn't the point. We agree at last.
It's the comparison I made for a specific and clearly laid out reason, which you chose to ignore in favour of "But terrorists blow people up with bombs so it's not the same".

You're confusing "comparison" with "equation". You do that quite a lot, actually.

[Kizzy]

Thank you very much, Alfie. Still... it gave Kizzy another chance to have a dig so... everyone's a winner.

Excuse me you had a dig at DR for not understanding you, not everyone is a cockney sparra me ol china.
All I did was explain the semantic expression.

[Kizzy]

Comparing terrorists with "sub-communities of somewhat lawless white British people..." is kind of flawed because those sub-communities are not carrying out terrorist atrocities all over the world, particularly on other Muslims.

What was Thomas Mair?

[Alf]

What was Thomas Mair?A terrorist. And so was the guy that punched Nazi Richard Spencer. And so were the people who attacked innocent people at Berkley last week.

terrorist
ˈtɛrərɪst/
noun
noun: terrorist; plural noun: terrorists
1.
a person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
"
1.
unlawfully using violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
"a terrorist organization"

[Kizzy]

A terrorist. And so was the guy that punched Nazi Richard Spencer. And so were the people who attacked innocent people at Berkley last week.

terrorist
ˈtɛrərɪst/
noun
noun: terrorist; plural noun: terrorists
1.
a person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
"
1.
unlawfully using violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
"a terrorist organization"

Yes thank you, I was highlighting that sub communities of white British are terrorists too if they commit terrorist acts in their own communities or not.

[Cherie]

A terrorist. And so was the guy that punched Nazi Richard Spencer. And so were the people who attacked innocent people at Berkley last week.

terrorist
ˈtɛrərɪst/
noun
noun: terrorist; plural noun: terrorists
1.
a person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
"
1.
unlawfully using violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
"a terrorist organization"

Don't go putting the notion that only brown people can be called terrorists to bed fgs, back in the day when the IRA were active, every Irish person was considered a terrorist, were we brown no..did people complain about how it was wrong to treat Irish people in this way..no, its not a new thing to tar people with the same brush, but some people think they invented the wheel and that this is all new and of course can only be because everyone is racist

[Crimson Dynamo]

Don't go putting the notion that only brown people can be called terrorists to bed fgs, back in the day when the IRA were active, every Irish person was considered a terrorist, were we brown no..did people complain about how it was wrong to treat Irish people in this way..no, its not a new thing to tar people with the new brush, but some people think they invented the wheel and that this is all new and of course can only be because everyone is racist

most of the *cough* left leaning members cannot remember the Troubles

:idc:

[Beso]

Don't go putting the notion that only brown people can be called terrorists to bed fgs, back in the day when the IRA were active, every Irish person was considered a terrorist, were we brown no..did people complain about how it was wrong to treat Irish people in this way..no, its not a new thing to tar people with the same brush, but some people think they invented the wheel and that this is all new and of course can only be because everyone is racist

Its a pity the government stood back and allowed the fundraising for the ira to take place every saturday afternoon on the streets of glasgow....probably to many fingers in to many pies..or eachothers holes or young boys holes at the time for anyone concerned to care..bunch of paedos with to much to hide to just end it all.. bit like now with the fresh batch of child molesting beasts we have running the muslim and government stuff...hang the ****ing lot of them

[Brillopad]

Don't go putting the notion that only brown people can be called terrorists to bed fgs, back in the day when the IRA were active, every Irish person was considered a terrorist, were we brown no..did people complain about how it was wrong to treat Irish people in this way..no, its not a new thing to tar people with the same brush, but some people think they invented the wheel and that this is all new and of course can only be because everyone is racist

Racism is the word of the day with some. It can shut down discussion and is constantly used by those trying to do just that.

It is also inflammatory and baiting behaviour and should be recognised as so by those dictating acceptable and non-acceptable behaviour in any such discussions.

[DemolitionRed]

Racism is the word of the day with some. It can shut down discussion and is constantly used by those trying to do just that.

It is also inflammatory and baiting behaviour and should be recognised as so by those dictating acceptable and non-acceptable behaviour in any such discussions.

If it walks like a duck....

[Brillopad]

If it walks like a duck....

Overusing a word to shut people up does more harm than good and waters down the true meaning of the word. Neither does it reflect well on those that use it as ammunition.

Walking like a duck works both ways.

[smudgie]

If there was a fair democratic referendum then I don't see a problem.
Different if they were declaring war or violence.
Why would you want to live where you are not wanted, plenty of other places to welcome you with open arms.

[user104658]

Overusing a word to shut people up does more harm than good and waters down the true meaning of the word. Neither does it reflect well on those that use it as ammunition.

Lefty
Leftist
Lefty Liberal
PC Crowd
PC Gone Mad
...
Snowflake

[Brillopad]

Lefty
Leftist
Lefty Liberal
PC Crowd
PC Gone Mad
...
Snowflake

These are words/expressions that in my experience have been used in RESPONSE to being called names such as racist. If people give it out they have to expect it back.

Those throwing the racist word around started it so are not really in a position to object to a bit of tit for tat.

[user104658]

These are words/expressions that in my experience have been used in RESPONSE to being called names such as racist. If people give it out they have to expect it back.

Those throwing the racist word around started it so are not really in a position to object to a bit of tit for tat.

Bull****, snowflake started being used here as soon as it became a popular media buzz-term, not in response to anything.

Also the second part is amusing me. I think you'll find that in general, people handle these terms (Lefty, snowflake) with barely a comment. They get a bit boring in their overuse, but it's mostly water off a ducks back.

Ironically... It's the "more righty un-PC right to my opinion" crowd that start launching their toys out of the pram as soon as anyone dares "call them a name" like racist/xenophobe/bigot :joker:. Can't handle anyone invading their snowflakey safe-space I guess :shrug:

[Brillopad]

Bull****, snowflake started being used here as soon as it became a popular media buzz-term, not in response to anything.

Also the second part is amusing me. I think you'll find that in general, people handle these terms (Lefty, snowflake) with barely a comment. They get a bit boring in their overuse, but it's mostly water off a ducks back.

Ironically... It's the "more righty un-PC right to my opinion" crowd that start launching their toys out of the pram as soon as anyone dares "call them a name" like racist/xenophobe/bigot :joker:. Can't handle anyone invading their snowflakey safe-space I guess :shrug:

Personally I had never even heard the 'snowflake' word until recently on here. But I have heard the word 'racist' on endless occasions

[Withano]

Racism is the word of the day with some. It can shut down discussion and is constantly used by those trying to do just that.

It is also inflammatory and baiting behaviour and should be recognised as so by those dictating acceptable and non-acceptable behaviour in any such discussions.

If your argument can be shut down by a single word, you probably didnt have much of an argument.

[Tom4784]

These are words/expressions that in my experience have been used in RESPONSE to being called names such as racist. If people give it out they have to expect it back.

Those throwing the racist word around started it so are not really in a position to object to a bit of tit for tat.

Calling someone a racist is fair if they share views that can be considered racist. If you get accused of racism then it's down to you to defend yourself. Being called a racist is an accusation, not a way of shutting someone down.

Which isn't the case with the phrases TS have listed which you have used freely to try to shut down anyone who thinks differently to you. Not to mention the fact that in other threads you have basically denounced anyone of a left leaning persuasion as naive. THAT is shutting someone's opinion down and you are guilty of it more than any left leaning member I've seen on this site. You are happy enough to throw out insults at the left meant to shut down their opinion.

Your constant hypocrisy is ASTOUNDING.

[Brillopad]

Calling someone a racist is fair if they share views that can be considered racist. If you get accused of racism then it's down to you to defend yourself. Being called a racist is an accusation, not a way of shutting someone down.

Which isn't the case with the phrases TS have listed which you have used freely to try to shut down anyone who thinks differently to you. Not to mention the fact that in other threads you have basically denounced anyone of a left leaning persuasion as naive. THAT is shutting someone's opinion down and you are guilty of it more than any left leaning member I've seen on this site. You are happy enough to throw out insults at the left meant to shut down their opinion.

Your constant hypocrisy is ASTOUNDING.

Accusing someone of being racist does not make every such allegation a fact. It is also based on perception and interpretation as well as intent as many do use it to shut down opinion.

Your constant hypocrisy is astounding to many.

[Crimson Dynamo]

The BBC pulled an advert for the Wales England game as people complained it was racist

It was Welsh people struggling to think of any good things to say about the English


Lots of people have no idea what racism is

[Withano]

Accusing someone of being racist does not make every such allegation a fact. It is also based on perception and interpretation as well as intent as many do use it to shut down opinion.

Your constant hypocrisy is astounding to many.

If you wanted an example of your hypocrisy, then here is is. You have already agreed that it is okay to question people when you believe they are being sexist, and those that defend sexist attitudes.. by that logic alone, the same should apply for interpretations of racism/homophobia/xenophobia etc.



There is nothing irrational about questioning sexist male attitudes and men that defend such attitudes.
.

I'd suggest that if a persons argument can be shut down by being called sexist, they probably either were being sexist, or they didnt have much of an argument to begin with.

[DemolitionRed]

Overusing a word to shut people up does more harm than good and waters down the true meaning of the word. Neither does it reflect well on those that use it as ammunition.

Walking like a duck works both ways.

Then stop mocking left wing people at every opportunity. :smug:

[Tom4784]

Accusing someone of being racist does not make every such allegation a fact. It is also based on perception and interpretation as well as intent as many do use it to shut down opinion.

Your constant hypocrisy is astounding to many.

Where did I say calling someone racist makes it a fact? Also, it's not meant to shut an opinion down, like Withano said, if you feel that then your opinion must be pretty weak in the first place. If someone accused me of racism then I'd take it as an opportunity to completely dismantle their argument because it would be a silly accusation. I wouldn't break down and cry about it, I'd defend myself. The same can't be said for you constantly attacking the left wing for not being right wing.

Also repeating my last line at me makes you look silly since it really doesn't apply.

[Kizzy]

Racism is the word of the day with some. It can shut down discussion and is constantly used by those trying to do just that.

It is also inflammatory and baiting behaviour and should be recognised as so by those dictating acceptable and non-acceptable behaviour in any such discussions.

Whatever happened to free speech? :fist:

[Tom4784]

Whatever happened to free speech? :fist:

Free Speech is only a thing when it benefits certain people, Kizzy. You should know that by now :nono:

[user104658]

The BBC pulled an advert for the Wales England game as people complained it was racist

It was Welsh people struggling to think of any good things to say about the English


Lots of people have no idea what racism is
Language evolves and being pedantic about exact definitions is just another petty way of shutting an argument down, e.g "I'm not racist, Islam is not a race". It's a strawman. In my actual opinion, to be fair, at this point there should be an equivalent term to "antisemitism" for Muslims, but I don't think certain people would be very comfortable with that. They wouldn't be able to dodge the comment by saying "I'm not a... " any more.

I try on occasion to use xenophobia in place of racism when it comes to anti-cultural statements but I struggle a little because a phobia is an irrational fear, and most of the bile I see being sloshed around has absolutely Jack **** to do with fear of any kind.

[Kizzy]

Language evolves and being pedantic about exact definitions is just another petty way of shutting an argument down, e.g "I'm not racist, Islam is not a race". It's a strawman. In my actual opinion, to be fair, at this point there should be an equivalent term to "antisemitism" for Muslims, but I don't think certain people would be very comfortable with that. They wouldn't be able to dodge the comment by saying "I'm not a... " any more.

I try on occasion to use xenophobia in place of racism when it comes to anti-cultural statements but I struggle a little because a phobia is an irrational fear, and most of the bile I see being sloshed around has absolutely Jack **** to do with fear of any kind.

Wasn't 'Islamophobic' a thing? But it's socially acceptable for people to be Islamophobic now...cos terrorism.

[Brillopad]

Whatever happened to free speech? :fist:

I don't exactly disagree with that but it has to work both ways.

[Brillopad]

Where did I say calling someone racist makes it a fact? Also, it's not meant to shut an opinion down, like Withano said, if you feel that then your opinion must be pretty weak in the first place. If someone accused me of racism then I'd take it as an opportunity to completely dismantle their argument because it would be a silly accusation. I wouldn't break down and cry about it, I'd defend myself. The same can't be said for you constantly attacking the left wing for not being right wing.

Also repeating my last line at me makes you look silly since it really doesn't apply.

I don't 'cry' about it, I am generally pretty thick skinned, that is just your words/interpretation. Could that be yet another attempt to dismiss/undermine my opinions?

My objection is that some people spout this allegation at just about any criticism of Muslims, strongly suggesting it to be an attempt to shut down any argument. I am hardly the only person to say this.

[Kizzy]

I don't exactly disagree with that but it has to work both ways.

But you make no sense, the demand is for it be acceptable to make racist comments freely before you will accept someones right to expose it as racist?

[Tom4784]

I don't 'cry' about it, I am generally pretty thick skinned, that is just your words/interpretation. Could that be yet another attempt to dismiss/undermine my opinions?

My objection is that some people spout this allegation at just about any criticism of Muslims, strongly suggesting it to be an attempt to shut down any argument. I am hardly the only person to say this.

Then why whine about it? If someone accuses you of something you aren't then that's basically a free opportunity to lay waste to that argument. If someone can't argue against being called a racist then that generally suggests that they know it's true.

Again, your lack of self awareness is rather hysterical, why are you complaining about this when you REGULARLY attempt to shut down the left? You can argue against someone calling you a racist but phrases like 'Loony Left' or suggesting that the Left are simply naive young people aren't accusations, they are meant to devalue someone's opinions that you disagree with.

[Cherie]

Wasn't 'Islamophobic' a thing? But it's socially acceptable for people to be Islamophobic now...cos terrorism.

I don't know anyone that thinks its acceptable to be Islamaphobic. is this an oop North thing :umm2:

[Kizzy]

I don't know anyone that thinks its acceptable to be Islamaphobic. is this an oop North thing :umm2:

No?... Oh well that's good then.

I'm going to make Yorkshirephobic a thing now :idc:

[Brillopad]

Then why whine about it? If someone accuses you of something you aren't then that's basically a free opportunity to lay waste to that argument. If someone can't argue against being called a racist then that generally suggests that they know it's true.

Again, your lack of self awareness is rather hysterical, why are you complaining about this when you REGULARLY attempt to shut down the left? You can argue against someone calling you a racist but phrases like 'Loony Left' or suggesting that the Left are simply naive young people aren't accusations, they are meant to devalue someone's opinions that you disagree with.

As usual just about every allegation you direct at me can be directed back at you. Your opinion is not fact , just opinion. My self awareness is not the problem.

I give as good as I get so if you choose to see that as simply attempting to shut down the left then in my opinion that demonstrates a lack of self awareness on your part.

When I do make comments that could be interpreted as 'attempting to shut down opinion' then maybe thought should be given as to why? Don't whine about a bit of tit for tat. Give it , take it. I don' know how many times I have to say that. :shrug:

[Kizzy]

When I do make comments that could be interpreted as 'attempting to shut down opinion'

'Originally Posted by Brillopad View Post
Very, very true. Young people are by nature sheep being herded into the right 'pen' by a more worldly-wise force.'

Following my reply your response was 'oh be quiet'

[Withano]

When I do make comments that could be interpreted as 'attempting to shut down opinion' then maybe thought should be given as to why?

:joker: the convo started because you thought people were trying to shut your opinions down by calling you a racist

Maybe thought should be given as to why

Thats hilarious.

[Brillopad]

:joker: the convo started because you thought people were trying to shut your opinions down by calling you a racist

Maybe thought should be given as to why

Thats hilarious.

I was responding to a post on racist allegations on which I was in agreement with. So what is your point exactly. It seems a bit muddled.

It wasn't the first post I ever made on this subject just one in a long line of tit for tat allegations in many different threads, so you would need to go back some way to ascertain who said what first.

[Beso]

Jesus, you lot can be so childish at times..I hate to think how you would fare on an adult snd forum.

[Brillopad]

When I do make comments that could be interpreted as 'attempting to shut down opinion'

'Originally Posted by Brillopad View Post
Very, very true. Young people are by nature sheep being herded into the right 'pen' by a more worldly-wise force.'

Following my reply your response was 'oh be quiet'

It was meant in jest as I thought your comment silly.

[Beso]

It was in jest, I believe I put a smilie face in.

This is a smilie:laugh:
This is an exclamation mark!

You put the later.

[Cherie]

]Jesus, you lot can be so childish at times..[/B]I hate to think how you would fare on an adult snd forum.

This is a smilie:laugh:
This is an exclamation mark!

You put the later.

:joker:

[Brillopad]

This is a smilie:laugh:
This is an exclamation mark!

You put the later.

I know, I just went back to check as I thought I had.

[Beso]

:joker:

Difference is i dont pretend or try to be anything different.:smug:

[Brillopad]

Difference is i dont pretend or try to be anything different.:smug:

You did when you called others childish - we all have a bit of the child still in us. To deny it is fruitless. :joker:

[Kizzy]

It was meant in jest as I thought your comment silly.

How effing rude.