GAY MARRIAGE : Church Of England Still not wanting it

[arista]

Great Debate
on GMBHD itv
was on at 7:46AM

watch on +1

It had a Young Lady Gay Vicar
who is normally doing weekend papers
on bbc1am

And a Lady standing by her God Rules,


PM David Cameron brought this in
(Upsetting many in his own Party)
years ago, but the Church of England
today is having another Long Vote today

[Cal.]

Wouldn't want to get married in their gross churches anyway.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I think we need to shake off this church and marriage bolloxio and build some lovely marriage specific buildings where people can get married in. Forget about churches and vicars as they are irrelevant when it comes to marriage

[armand.kay]

Why are gays so thirsty to get married in a church we're better than this.

[Niamh.]

Why are gays so thirsty to get married in a church we're better than this.

The last few weddings of people I know haven't even been in Churches and these were straight weddings, people seem to be doing the whole lot, the actual sermon and the reception all at the Hotels now, it's dying out for everyone anyway

[ebandit]

...why? would anyone wish to be married anyway.................time to move on

Mark L

[Brillopad]

I think we need to shake off this church and marriage bolloxio and build some lovely marriage specific buildings where people can get married in. Forget about churches and vicars as they are irrelevant when it comes to marriage

I think with some it's more about challenging the system and marrying in a church to prove a point.

[Livia]

I'm going to say the same thing I always say when this subject comes up: I couldn't get married in a synagogue because my husband wasn't Jewish. I would have liked to have married in a synagogue but I understand that those are the rules. It didn't make me feel any less Jewish. Also, if the Church of England are to be required to marry gay people, so are Catholics, Jews, Muslims etc.... so good luck with that.

[Withano]

I think each priest / vicar should decide (I believe that is whats currently happening?). Wasnt a thread made a few months ago about empty seats and attendance though. Its weird that they havent put the two together. Christianity no longer fits in with the UKs culture really. They've bent some rules so that women can become vicars, stoning people to death for being aduleterers (Jamie) gets skimmed over too.. the pope even declared that God created evolution.. it seems about time they metophorically scribble out the three or four anti-gay lines.. but as I said, I think that should be left for each priest and vicar to personally decide.

[Niamh.]

I'm going to say the same thing I always say when this subject comes up: I couldn't get married in a synagogue because my husband wasn't Jewish. I would have liked to have married in a synagogue but I understand that those are the rules. It didn't make me feel any less Jewish. Also, if the Church of England are to be required to marry gay people, so are Catholics, Jews, Muslims etc.... so good luck with that.

Yeah my mom got remarried and married in a hotel because her and her husband were both divorced and that's against Catholic rules. She's not religious really so she wasn't bothered, I think her new husband was a bit though. I don't know why people would even want to get married in such an intolerant type of place anyway tbh :shrug:

Saying that i did get married in a Church myself just because I liked the Gothic-ness of it all plus my uncle married us and he's a really interesting Priest (ex priest now) If I had my time over I would go somewhere sunny and get married on a Beach :flutter:

[Crimson Dynamo]

I was married in the church whose spire was the actual inspiration for all wedding cakes

:hee:

[Niamh.]

I was married in the church whose spire was the actual inspiration for all wedding cakes

:hee:

Really? :laugh:

[Withano]

I thought money was the inspiration for wedding cakes

[Crimson Dynamo]

Really? :laugh:

http://media.iwm.org.uk/ciim5/187/553/large_000000.jpghttp://www.e-architect.co.uk/images/jpgs/london/st_brides_church_london_i120112_2.jpg

Yes, the most ancient church in Londinium

[Ronald.]

My wife and I got married in a church but recently we went to my nieces wedding in the lake district and that was all outside. It was lovely! They were tieing the knot - quite literally with ribbon! (I think something with pagan symbolism? Correct me if wrong). No religious vows. It was different to a "normal" wedding, but I think what we previously viewed as a normal wedding is no longer the norm. I like all weddings. R.

[Kizzy]

I thought money was the inspiration for wedding cakes

No, money was the inspiration for churches sweetie :)

[Niamh.]

No money was the inspiration for churches sweetie :)

haha very true

[Niamh.]

http://media.iwm.org.uk/ciim5/187/553/large_000000.jpghttp://www.e-architect.co.uk/images/jpgs/london/st_brides_church_london_i120112_2.jpg

Yes, the most ancient church in Londinium

They are fantastic buildings, as anti religion as I am, I just love the architecture of churches and Cathedrals especially the older ones

[Withano]

I think with some it's more about challenging the system and marrying in a church to prove a point.

Probably mostly to do with equal rights, anti-discrimination, and people wanting themselves/their friends/their family to marry before the God they were raised with though. What an oddly simplistic take on a serious issue.

[Niamh.]

Probably mostly to do with equal rights, anti-discrimination, and people wanting themselves/their friends/their family to marry before the God they were raised with though. What an oddly simplistic take on a serious issue.

I understand that to a point and certainly don't agree with religious business owners etc discriminating against people in "the real world" but religions by their very nature discriminate in order to follow whatever their religions rules are. Like already stated Livia couldn't get married in a synagogue because her husband wasn't Jewish, my mother couldn't get remarried in the Church because she was divorced, women aren't allowed become Priests which would be blatant sexism in the "real world" etc. So imo, a church shouldn't be forced on this one issue by government because if they're forced on this one thing then they should be forced on all of them and not be allowed to discriminate against anyone over anything and then they wouldn't have any exclusive rules anymore and would not really be that religion anymore.

I do however think that if it's a big issue for gay people they are well within their rights to put pressure on their religions themselves to try and get some reformation on the issue

[Jamie89]

The last few weddings of people I know haven't even been in Churches and these were straight weddings, people seem to be doing the whole lot, the actual sermon and the reception all at the Hotels now, it's dying out for everyone anyway

It's an interesting point. Fair enough that they can make their own decisions and although I think it's wrong, they can be as exclusionary as they want, but by trying to 'protect' their institution they're actually destroying it by alienating the general public with their attitudes and showing themselves to be backwards thinking and out of touch with modern society.

I think with some it's more about challenging the system and marrying in a church to prove a point.

For most I think it's actually just about wanting to feel included within the system, not challenge it or fight against it.

[Niamh.]

It's an interesting point. Fair enough that they can make their own decisions and although I think it's wrong, they can be as exclusionary as they want, but by trying to 'protect' their institution they're actually destroying it by alienating the general public with their attitudes and showing themselves to be backwards thinking and out of touch with modern society.



For most I think it's actually just about wanting to feel included within the system, not challenge it or fight against it.

100% and tbqh I think it's no harm they're dying out

[Crimson Dynamo]

the head of da Catholics was on LBS the other week and a lesbian lady was asking why the church does not modernise on marriage in that when the Bible was constructed attitudes to homosexuality were so different

The guy said he cant as they follow the teaching of Jesus and he was against it

[Withano]

I understand that to a point and certainly don't agree with religious business owners etc discriminating against people in "the real world" but religions by their very nature discriminate in order to follow whatever their religions rules are. Like already stated Livia couldn't get married in a synagogue because her husband wasn't Jewish, my mother couldn't get remarried in the Church because she was divorced, women aren't allowed become Priests which would be blatant sexism in the "real world" etc. So imo, a church shouldn't be forced on this one issue by government because if they're forced on this one thing then they should be forced on all of them and not be allowed to discriminate against anyone over anything and then they wouldn't have any exclusive rules anymore and would not really be that religion anymore.

I do however think that if it's a big issue for gay people they are well within their rights to put pressure on their religions themselves to try and get some reformation on the issue

Yeah, I've agreed with every post in the thread so far apart from the one claiming that that homosexuals dont actually want to marry in churches and are mostly just no-gooders causing trouble and challenging the system.
I think most people have a similar stance on this subject. Government shouldn't pressure, each priest and vicar should personally decide, and voices to convince them to do so should be heard.

[Withano]

the head of da Catholics was on LBS the other week and a lesbian lady was asking why the church does not modernise on marriage in that when the Bible was constructed attitudes to homosexuality were so different

The guy said he cant as they follow the teaching of Jesus and he was against it

As far as the bible is concerned, Jesus had no opinion on it. That guy needs a reread.

[Vicky.]

Most Churches are never going to accept gay marriage though.

I honestly do not understand why gay people would want to get married somewhere that disapproves of their relationship to begin with. I actually don't know anyone who got married in a church either, probably as I don't know any extremely religious people. A church wasn't even discussed when we were planning our wedding..yes it may be prettier for the photos and that, but thats it. I do not get why anyone who is not religious would use a church for this. Not insinuating that no gay people can be religious there mind...but I would think that...not many are. or not strictly Christian anyway

[Niamh.]

Yeah, I've agreed with every post in the thread so far apart from the one claiming that that homosexuals dont actually want to marry in churches and are mostly just no-gooders causing trouble and challenging the system.
I think most people have a similar stance on this subject. Government shouldn't pressure, each priest and vicar should personally decide, and voices to convince them to do so should be heard.

I'm not sure about Church of England/protestant churches but I know in Catholic Churches that just wouldn't be allowed, they really have to tow the party line, so to speak. I'm pretty sure Catholicism is more strict though

[Crimson Dynamo]

As far as the bible is concerned, Jesus had no opinion on it. That guy needs a reread.

The Bible is the word of God, Jesus is God and so whatever is in both books is the word of Jesus

according to CHristianity

[Braden]

If they're going to have this rule for gay/lesbian individuals, they need to apply it to other people such as those with tattoos, meat-eaters, literal non-religious folk etc. All those who are subject to defying the bible.

The gay community are just continuously being used as scapegoats by some people.

[Vicky.]

If they're going to have this rule for gay/lesbian individuals, they need to apply it to other people such as those with tattoos, meat-eaters, literal non-religious folk etc. All those who are subject to defying the bible.

The gay community are just continuously being used as scapegoats by some people.

Are tattoos mentioned in the bible? :o

I didn't realise meateaters were 'sinners' either, surely back in that day meat was the primary food source :S

They do apply the rule for divorced people though as they disagree with divorce also. Some churches will not perform a marriage unless the people are actually religious and attend church also.

[Braden]

Are tattoos mentioned in the bible? :o

I didn't realise meateaters were 'sinners' either, surely back in that day meat was the primary food source :S

They do apply the rule for divorced people though as they disagree with divorce also. Some churches will not perform a marriage unless the people are actually religious and attend church also.

Leviticus 19: 28

“You must not put tattoo marking upon yourselves.”

I think I was incorrect with the 'meat-eating' label, but I'm certain it's prohibited to eat pork. I remember one of my classmates coming to school one day and starting a debate about how she didn't think gay people should get married. She said that if gay people wanted to get married then should create their own religion, but the hilarious thing was that very morning she had a bacon and sausage roll for breakfast :p

I didn't actually know that was the case with divorcees.

[Vicky.]

Leviticus 19: 28

“You must not put tattoo marking upon yourselves.”

I think I was incorrect with the 'meat-eating' label, but I'm certain it's prohibited to eat pork. I remember one of my classmates coming to school one day and starting a debate about how she didn't think gay people should get married. She said that if gay people wanted to get married then should create their own religion, but the hilarious thing was that very morning she had a bacon and sausage roll for breakfast :p

I didn't actually know that was the case with divorcees.
ffs :laugh:

[Tom4784]

I've always held the belief that if a place of worship makes money from hosting weddings that it should be beholden to discrimination laws like any business would.

Tbh though, I think Church Weddings are dying out and I don't think many people that do have one do it for religious reasons, it's probably more to do with having a nice or traditional backdrop for the pictures.

[Crimson Dynamo]

The Bible not only describes homosexual behaviour as detestable, but it also calls for the punishment of those involved (Leviticus 20:13). Their unrepentant attitude caused God to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 19:24-25). Just as homosexual conduct has been punished in the past, so it will also be punished by God in the future. “…Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God” (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

Read more at: http://christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c040.html

[Braden]

ffs :laugh:

Exactly what I was thinking.

I kept quiet though :p

[Denver]

If they're going to have this rule for gay/lesbian individuals, they need to apply it to other people such as those with tattoos, meat-eaters, literal non-religious folk etc. All those who are subject to defying the bible.

The gay community are just continuously being used as scapegoats by some people.
You have to be christened to marry in church

[Denver]

Leviticus 19: 28

“You must not put tattoo marking upon yourselves.”

I think I was incorrect with the 'meat-eating' label, but I'm certain it's prohibited to eat pork. I remember one of my classmates coming to school one day and starting a debate about how she didn't think gay people should get married. She said that if gay people wanted to get married then should create their own religion, but the hilarious thing was that very morning she had a bacon and sausage roll for breakfast :p

I didn't actually know that was the case with divorcees.

Is Pork not another religion? Jewish?

[Denver]

Why would you want to get married

[Vicky.]

Why would you want to get married

To stop people constantly asking 'why have you not got married yet' and to please the parents. In my case :p

[Denver]

To stop people constantly asking 'why have you not got married yet' and to please the parents. In my case :p

Ive seen numerous marriages break down so i will never get married and i am a strong believer that you dont need a ring and piece of paper to prove you love someone

[Braden]

You have to be christened to marry in church

I genuinely didn't know this, but just because someone is christened does not automatically make them religious (imo).

I was christened, but I'm not religious. My Mum and Dad married in a church, yet I wouldn't say they're religious in a way that would make a church wedding acceptable by TCoE's standards.

Is Pork not another religion? Jewish?

I just found this:

(English Standard Version) Deuteronomy 14:8:

"And the pig, because it parts the hoof but does not chew the cud, is unclean for you. Their flesh you shall not eat, and their carcasses you shall not touch.
"

[Kizzy]

A pigs a filthy animal... I don't eat filthy animals.

Can't remember what film that's from :idc:

[Denver]

I can not live without a bacon sarnie

[Kizzy]

I once read that the only reason that was included in religious text was the king at the time was sick of the smell of the pigs roaming outside the palace.

[Vicky.]

Ive seen numerous marriages break down so i will never get married and i am a strong believer that you dont need a ring and piece of paper to prove you love someone

Yes I agree 100% with this. Marriage really is quite an outdated concept.

[Vicky.]

Also why do so many religions hate pigs :( I didn't realise Christianity was the same...another reason not to be religious as bacon sandwiches are better than any God.

[Braden]

I agree re: marriage being an incredibly overrated concept & bacon being too good to not eat :p

[Livia]

The Bible is the word of God, Jesus is God and so whatever is in both books is the word of Jesus

according to CHristianity

In the New Testament Jesus makes no mention of homosexuality. However, he does say that he "upholds the law of Moses". So that has been taken to mean that he believes in all the Jewish Old Testament stuff he was taught as a child.

In any case, the church should not be pushed into anything unless we're going to push mosques and synagogues into it too.

[Livia]

Also why do so many religions hate pigs :( I didn't realise Christianity was the same...another reason not to be religious as bacon sandwiches are better than any God.

Unclean animals, innit. There are quite a lot of things I'm not supposed to eat including shellfish... which I hate anyway.

[Livia]

Wow... there are some really hazy Jewish/Christian mix-ups on this thread...

[Braden]

Wow... there are some really hazy Jewish/Christian mix-ups on this thread...

If this in reference to what I have said, feel free to say what is wrong.

As I've said I'm not entirely religious so my knowledge isn't well-informed.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I used to date a crab as it goes, thing was when she wasnt giving it all that she actually just cared about herself and her mum (she had no dad)

Fact of the matter was she was a shellfish bastard

[Kizzy]

They are all a weird mish mash of each other and bits from here and there, each one believing they are right and all others wrong.

'The call of time is to send thoughts of peace and power to the world. Your thoughts travel, moving at a great speed and with considerable impact. Let the thought of peace sit in your mind,knowing that the vibes from your thoughts can radiate out and touch any person, any place.'

[Livia]

If this in reference to what I have said, feel free to say what is wrong.

As I've said I'm not entirely religious so my knowledge isn't well-informed.

I think it's just that Judaism is over 5000 years old, Christianity 2000 and Islam much younger, 1300 years, something like that. People get confused between the old and new testament and it's further compounded by Jesus being Jewish and that he's recognised in Judaism and Islam as a prophet, but not as the son of God.

Anyway, I don't want to get too far into it here because it's kind of annoying the way people who don't believe the same as you pour scorn on it as exampled in Kizzy's post. Personally, I uphold the right of everyone to believe what they want without having to defend it.

Anyhoo, thanks Braden.

[Livia]

I used to date a crab as it goes, thing was when she wasnt giving it all that she actually just cared about herself and her mum (she had no dad)

Fact of the matter was she was a shellfish bastard

Haha.. I thought, where's he going with this.....?

[Braden]

I think it's just that Judaism is over 5000 years old, Christianity 2000 and Islam much younger, 1300 years, something like that. People get confused between the old and new testament and it's further compounded by Jesus being Jewish and that he's recognised in Judaism and Islam as a prophet, but not as the son of God.

Anyway, I don't want to get too far into it here because it's kind of annoying the way people who don't believe the same as you pour scorn on it as exampled in Kizzy's post. Personally, I uphold the right of everyone to believe what they want without having to defend it.

Anyhoo, thanks Braden.

Okay, I understand. I think primarily for me, as a gay man, people that hold such hypocrisies in regard to religion are quite frustrating. Religion (for me anyway), is such a complex and intricate subject that nowadays when people say 'I don't think gay people should get a married in a church", they're saying it not because homosexuality is (made out to be) prohibited in any religious text, but because society (even outside of religion) has raised it as taboo within culture- It's okay to get away with it because there was a time where we weren't accepted, kind of thing. Though, religion is used as a way to justify their opinion.

[Kizzy]

I think it's just that Judaism is over 5000 years old, Christianity 2000 and Islam much younger, 1300 years, something like that. People get confused between the old and new testament and it's further compounded by Jesus being Jewish and that he's recognised in Judaism and Islam as a prophet, but not as the son of God.

Anyway, I don't want to get too far into it here because it's kind of annoying the way people who don't believe the same as you pour scorn on it as exampled in Kizzy's post. Personally, I uphold the right of everyone to believe what they want without having to defend it.

Anyhoo, thanks Braden.

In with anger, out with love.

[Alf]

A pigs a filthy animal... I don't eat filthy animals.

Can't remember what film that's from :idc:Jules say's it in Pulp Fiction.

[Kizzy]

Jules say's it in Pulp Fiction.

I know, very overrated film that.

[Alf]

I know, very overrated film that.Oh, you knew. I thought you was asking seriously, and I thought why is she asking a simple question? but I answered anyway, to try and make myself look like a film buff.

And it's a very good film, I'll have you know.

[Vicky.]

Unclean animals, innit. There are quite a lot of things I'm not supposed to eat including shellfish... which I hate anyway.

My husband for some reason says quite often that pigs are the cleanest animals, more clean than cats etc. Not sure if its true or not but he seems to think it is :laugh:

[Vicky.]

I actually think its pretty much certain that Jesus was a Jew. so how does this mean a brand new religion? Would it not make more sense for his followers to be Jewish?

However, despite going to Sunday schools (until I asked about dinosaurs and was banned :( ) and being Christened I do not know much about any religion at all tbh

[Alf]

I actually think its pretty much certain that Jesus was a Jew. so how does this mean a brand new religion? Would it not make more sense for his followers to be Jewish?

However, despite going to Sunday schools (until I asked about dinosaurs and was banned :( ) and being Christened I do not know much about any religion at all tbh:laugh2:

[thesheriff443]

We share 96 per cent dna with apes, religion was created by humans, believe what you like, I deal in facts not fiction.
We legally kill unborn babies conceived out of sexual pleasure and yet we let child killers live.

[Niamh.]

I think it's just that Judaism is over 5000 years old, Christianity 2000 and Islam much younger, 1300 years, something like that. People get confused between the old and new testament and it's further compounded by Jesus being Jewish and that he's recognised in Judaism and Islam as a prophet, but not as the son of God.

Anyway, I don't want to get too far into it here because it's kind of annoying the way people who don't believe the same as you pour scorn on it as exampled in Kizzy's post. Personally, I uphold the right of everyone to believe what they want without having to defend it.

Anyhoo, thanks Braden.

Is Judaism the oldest religion?

[Alf]

Is Judaism the oldest religion?You need to watch 'The Ten Commandments' with Charlton Heston.

Brilliant film, 4 hours long.

[arista]

If they're going to have this rule for gay/lesbian individuals, they need to apply it to other people such as those with tattoos, meat-eaters, literal non-religious folk etc. All those who are subject to defying the bible.

The gay community are just continuously being used as scapegoats by some people.


No they say its simple
there God says only a Man and Woman can marry
Africa also has that rule.

[arista]

You need to watch 'The Ten Commandments' with Charlton Heston.

Brilliant film, 4 hours long.


Yes Alf
on 1080P BluRay
with 8.1 DTSHD sound

[Niamh.]

You need to watch 'The Ten Commandments' with Charlton Heston.

Brilliant film, 4 hours long.

4 hours? ugh that's a long time to watch a film about religion :laugh:

[arista]

4 hours? ugh that's a long time to watch a film about religion :laugh:


That's OK
on BluRay you can stop it
have a nap
then go back to the place you left the film
all in 1080P

[Braden]

No they say its simple
there God says only a Man and Woman can marry
Africa also has that rule.

But my point is that there are so many other complications within religious texts. That's just one thing of an abundance of other statements, and I personally believe (although people have every right to have their opinion) that people use it as a way of justifying hate towards the gay community.

[Alf]

That's OK
on BluRay you can stop it
have a nap
then go back to the place you left the film
all in 1080PThere you go Niamh, problem solved.

[Niamh.]

There you go Niamh, problem solved.

:laugh:

[Niamh.]

Why would you want to get married

Why not? :shrug:

[Kizzy]

'The Pharisees would not live up to what they taught. They were so overly concerned with the externals that they neglected the "weightier matters of the law" and the simple truths about man and God. When their own Messiah had appeared in Israel they were so blinded by their observances and the minute details that they completely missed Him.'

What a guy!
http://www.bible-history.com/pharisees/PHARISEESJesus_and_the_Pharisees.htm

[Denver]

Why not? :shrug:

Just a pointless way to shove you love someone and the meaning of marriage is now dead tbh

[Niamh.]

Just a pointless way to shove you love someone and the meaning of marriage is now dead tbh

It isn't to me, I think marriage is a personal thing and means different things to different people, to some not very much and to others alot

[Denver]

It isn't to me, I think marriage is a personal thing and means different things to different people, to some not very much and to others alot

I read a stat somewhere that you will most likely divorce the person you marry rather then spend your life with them

[Niamh.]

I read a stat somewhere that you will most likely divorce the person you marry rather then spend your life with them

I don't care, i don't worry about other peoples relationships, just my own. I'm not a statistic :hee:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Because the TL has never been married but has had a couple of long ish term relationships its a very sore subject and I am strictly not allowed to tease her about it or joke

thing is it makes it even more irresistible to do it :worry: Its like i am drawn to it like a moth to a neon light. I cant help myself and its only me laughing

D:

[Toy Soldier]

Because the TL has never been married but has had a couple of long ish term relationships its a very sore subject and I am strictly not allowed to tease her about it or joke

thing is it makes it even more irresistible to do it :worry: Its like i am drawn to it like a moth to a neon light. I cant help myself and its only me laughing

D:

TL: "I've been in a number of serious relationships but never married..."

LT: "HAHAHA! LOL! No one wants to marry u! WOT A SADDO! Pmsl! Hey hey hey... wanna get marrrr...gheritas? Will you do me the honour of being my wwwwwwwwinter sports training partner? LOL j/k I'm not going to marry you either."

[Niamh.]

TL: "I've been in a number of serious relationships but never married..."

LT: "HAHAHA! LOL! No one wants to marry u! WOT A SADDO! Pmsl! Hey hey hey... wanna get marrrr...gheritas? Will you do me the honour of being my wwwwwwwwinter sports training partner? LOL j/k I'm not going to marry you either."

:laugh2:

[Northern Monkey]

TL: "I've been in a number of serious relationships but never married..."

LT: "HAHAHA! LOL! No one wants to marry u! WOT A SADDO! Pmsl! Hey hey hey... wanna get marrrr...gheritas? Will you do me the honour of being my wwwwwwwwinter sports training partner? LOL j/k I'm not going to marry you either."

:joker:

[Northern Monkey]

As Withano said.It should be up to the individual churches as to whether they feel it goes against their beliefs.Also as Livia said you can't force one religion in law without forcing all religions.Now imagine the unholy ****storm on the streets if you tried enforcing mosques to marry gays?

[Kizzy]

As Withano said.It should be up to the individual churches as to whether they feel it goes against their beliefs.Also as Livia said you can't force one religion in law without forcing all religions.Now imagine the unholy ****storm on the streets if you tried enforcing mosques to marry gays?

And Synagogues, she said and synagogues too.

[Northern Monkey]

And Synagogues, she said and synagogues too.

Notice i said 'all' religions?

[Crimson Dynamo]

TL: "I've been in a number of serious relationships but never married..."

LT: "HAHAHA! LOL! No one wants to marry u! WOT A SADDO! Pmsl! Hey hey hey... wanna get marrrr...gheritas? Will you do me the honour of being my wwwwwwwwinter sports training partner? LOL j/k I'm not going to marry you either."


*is horrified to be portrayed in such a way but notes down the margaritas one..

[Vicky.]

As Withano said.It should be up to the individual churches as to whether they feel it goes against their beliefs.Also as Livia said you can't force one religion in law without forcing all religions.Now imagine the unholy ****storm on the streets if you tried enforcing mosques to marry gays?

I *think* they already do samesex marriage. But only if one of the couple identifies as transgender


'Transgender men and women are recognized and accepted in many Islamic cultures around the world. In fact, the idea of a man or woman identifying as a member of the opposite gender is more likely to be accepted than that of a man or woman expressing sexual desire for someone of their own gender.

As early as 1988, gender reassignment surgery was declared acceptable under Islamic law by scholars at Egypt’s Al-Azhar, the world’s oldest Islamic university. In Iran, in 1987, Ayatollah Khomeini declared transgender surgical operations allowable. The basis for this attitude of acceptance is the belief that a person is born transgender but chooses to be homosexual, making homosexuality a sin.'
http://www.hrc.org/resources/stances-of-faiths-on-lgbt-issues-islam

Not sure if that link is biased or not. I only know about this because of a conversation elsewhere where it was claimed it is acceptable (to a Muslim) to be transgender but not to be gay. And that in predominantly Muslim countries being transgender is encouraged as it 'means less gay people' :umm2:

[Crimson Dynamo]

still at least there is very little homosexuality in the middle east where this particular cult was invented and there is little homosexuality in the clergy....


https://media.tenor.co/images/498ef676837a308b0ec95a3dd67e947e/raw

[smudgie]

I really don't see why you can't get married in church if you are gay if the vicar is not against it.
Hopefully we can all be treat as equals one day.
You can get married in some churches if you are divorced nowadays...even the Catholic Church, just as long as you get an annulment first.
The C of E does not require you to be christened to be married in church.

Some couples get married in church due to the bride wanting her chance to walk down the aisle looking like a meringue, or to be the centre of attention for the day, some do it for religion and some do it for traditions sake. All good to them.

[Marsh.]

The last few weddings of people I know haven't even been in Churches and these were straight weddings, people seem to be doing the whole lot, the actual sermon and the reception all at the Hotels now, it's dying out for everyone anyway

Yeah, the entire day being in one venue seems to be a thing now.

I remember a wedding I went to 15 years ago had the church wedding, then the meal/speeches/day elsewhere, then the party on the night at a third venue.

People wisely stay in the one place now. :laugh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

The whole speeches thing needs to end

[Withano]

I *think* they already do samesex marriage. But only if one of the couple identifies as transgender



I remember once when a church in Russia had no option but to marry a lesbian couple because the country refuses to acknowledge the transgender woman as a woman. Might be similar to that?

[thesheriff443]

Did anyone read this week about the woman who got a divorce settlement from her wealth partner then had him killed went to prison for 12 years the family stoped the payments wen she got released she went back to court and the judge up held the original decision and she got 15 million back payments

[thesheriff443]

The whole speeches thing needs to end

Words fail me.

[Glenn.]

I can't believe people still follow religion. We're supposed to be an intelligent species.

[Vicky.]

I remember once when a church in Russia had no option but to marry a lesbian couple because the country refuses to acknowledge the transgender woman as a woman. Might be similar to that?I think this is that, but the opposite if that makes sense :laugh:

Gay males can marry each other, IF one pretends to be trans. Same for gay females.

[Jack_]

I did a little bit of reading about the problem of framing of 'equality' for gay people in strictly legal terms a few weeks ago, and it was quite interesting. For years I've always seen equal marriage as the beacon of progress for 'gay rights' (and I still do to an extent), but what many queer scholars have critiqued certain LGBT activists for (and indeed the same applies for feminists, black and disability rights movements and others) is for trying to assimilate themselves into an inherently oppressive system.

You may be striving for 'equality' - but equality with whom exactly? Marriage is a patriarchal, heteronormative, neoliberal institution...is that really all LGBT activists should be working towards? Surely the goal should be to upend and dismantle the existing structures that propagate homophobia and challenge the status quo in the first place? Marriage equality doesn't solve the multitude of other issues facing not just LGBT people, but everyone else.

This piece is particularly pertinent (http://www.revolutionbythebook.akpress.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/AgainstEquality_excerpt.pdf)

[Gstar]

To think how many priests perv on young boys and try to seduce them, I've got plenty of receipts but that's tea for another day

[Marsh.]

Germyle admitting to sex in the vestry?

[Northern Monkey]

I *think* they already do samesex marriage. But only if one of the couple identifies as transgender


http://www.hrc.org/resources/stances-of-faiths-on-lgbt-issues-islam

Not sure if that link is biased or not. I only know about this because of a conversation elsewhere where it was claimed it is acceptable (to a Muslim) to be transgender but not to be gay. And that in predominantly Muslim countries being transgender is encouraged as it 'means less gay people' :umm2:

They've found a....erm..... loophole:laugh:

[smudgie]

The Synod voted against the Bishops.