2nd Scottish referendum announced

[Kizzy]

The Scottish Government will move to hold a second referendum on independence from the United Kingdom, the country's First Minister has announced.

Nicola Sturgeon made the announcement in a speech on Monday morning at Bute House, as MPs in Westminster prepared to give Theresa May the power to trigger Article 50 and begin Brexit negotiations.

She said the UK Government had "not moved even an inch in pursuit of compromise and agreement" with the Scottish Government over Brexit and that even a good deal would be "significantly inferior" to the status quo.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/second-scottish-independence-live-referendum-nicola-sturgeon-brexit-speech-second-indy-ref-2-uk-eu-a7626746.html

[Denver]

They will just become a poor country they will have no income anywhere

[ebandit]

...........if ya don't achieve the result one wishes 1st time

..........if only vote was extended to all UK.............think of all the engleeesh whom
would vote the scots ooot?

Mark L

[Marsh.]

Can we vote to send Nicola Sturgeon to Australia or something?

[Niamh.]

...........if ya don't achieve the result one wishes 1st time

..........if only vote was extended to all UK.............think of all the engleeesh whom
would vote the scots ooot?

Mark L

Well, circumstances have changed massively since the last vote considering Scotland wanted to remain in the Eu but England wanted out :shrug:

[Toy Soldier]

They will just become a poor country they will have no income anywhere

Possibly, no moreso than England in 10 years time, and I have more faith in a smaller devolved government to do it's best to look after ordinary citizens than Westminster, who will happily throw millions under the bus to bolster London at all costs.

[ebandit]

Well, circumstances have changed massively since the last vote considering Scotland wanted to remain in the Eu but England wanted out :shrug:

ya can't have ya cake....................and eat it

scots voted to remain in the UK with ALL that entailed....option was not there
to select i'm in for this................but not that................

Mark L

[Toy Soldier]

ya can't have ya cake....................and eat it

scots voted to remain in the UK with ALL that entailed....option was not there
to select i'm in for this................but not that................

Mark L

:shrug: The options were "Yes or No", not "Yes or Never".

[T*]

https://media.giphy.com/media/l0O9xGWkGtIFS501G/giphy.gif

[arista]

They will just become a poor country they will have no income anywhere


No Adam
TS /LT and Josy
are Fighters


The PM says NO , anyway
Ref : Live Daily Politics BBC2HD today

[Niamh.]

ya can't have ya cake....................and eat it

scots voted to remain in the UK with ALL that entailed....option was not there
to select i'm in for this................but not that................

Mark L

Clearly you can though going by the title of this thread :hee:

[Tregard]

ya can't have ya cake....................and eat it

scots voted to remain in the UK with ALL that entailed....option was not there
to select i'm in for this................but not that................

Mark L

Part of the argument to stay within the UK was a safe and secure place in the EU

So, y'know, that's a thing

[ebandit]

.............ok? we should hold all parties accountable for not upholding their manifesto

situations change ....................no-one expects another vote

..............well unless your ms fishyface..................which takes me back to my

1st post...............if ya don't get your wish 1st time

Mark L

[VanessaFeltz.]

... A bit early.

There have been big changes but still it has been only 2.5 years, they need to give it a couple of years to see the outcome

[Tom4784]

I don't blame them, Scotland voted to stay in the EU and their impact on the vote ultimately didn't matter, why should they stay with us if they ultimately don't have a say in the UK's future?

[Beso]

Worse than the bnp that lot.

[Denver]

I dont get how staying in the EU is safe? it has destroyed the likes of Greece, Cyprus, Spain and Portugal

[Cherie]

Hope they say yes this time and go

[Cherie]

Well, circumstances have changed massively since the last vote considering Scotland wanted to remain in the Eu but England wanted out :shrug:

So has Scotlands much trumpeted oil industry

[ebandit]

Hope they say yes this time and go

me too.................still peeved i was not allowed to vote them 'GONE' 1st time

Mark L

[Tregard]

Let's get this Pan-Celtic Union up and running, folks!

[Denver]

They will all come crying when Theresa May puts up a wall and makes them pay for it :idc:

[Tregard]

They will all come crying when Theresa May puts up a wall and makes them pay for it :idc:


Build a bridge across to Norn Iron m8, no bother

[Northern Monkey]

I'd be all for it if the Scottish people wanted it.However the evidence apparently shows that they don't.The SNP will grab at every opportunity until they get the result they want.
I think rejoining the EU independently would be a terrible idea and i think the Scotts know it too.The EU is a sinking ship.Countries are going to start jumping off it not back on.

[Niamh.]

Build a bridge across to Norn Iron m8, no bother

:laugh:

[Denver]

Sturgeon is lying to the Scottish though as she is not telling them the dangers

[Rob!]

So this would mean I'd need a passport to go to Scotland?

[Greg!]

https://media.giphy.com/media/IYyn46tl55Yyc/giphy.gif

but aready the scaremongering has begun. Tories telling Scotland it's too wee, too poor, too stupid etc

[Firewire]

I voted no first time but honestly anything is better than the ****show that we have at the moment, bye x

[Greg!]

It's just the over 60s that need convincing and yes would win by a landslide. They're the only age group against it

[Denver]

Once you out you cant come back in.

And the EU wont give you the money the UK does.

You will need a passport to get in the country meaning any criminals will be banned from the UK

[Firewire]

You honestly make zero sense

[UserSince2005]

Scotland needs to go.

If they don't take this chance now, then I think the English should just vote them out of the union.

This has been going on far to long.

It is time to trim the fat!

[Denver]

It is actually a good thing because we should only focus on the people who care so basically England and Wales

[Denver]

I dont get the hopes for the EU because once France leaves that is the EU over

[andybigbro]

No means NO fs.

"Once in a generation" aye until you get the vote that suits you.

[UserSince2005]

Scotland should be given an ultimatum, leave the union or lose all sovereignty.

Hopefully that will be enough to make them leave, and we wont have to deal with them anymore.

[Tregard]

It is actually a good thing because we should only focus on the people who care so basically England and Wales

Poor Isle of Man

[Shaun]

Get out whilst you can.

Screws England over though, we'll have a Tory government for at least 20 years. :bored:

[Tregard]

Get out whilst you can.

Screws England over though, we'll have a Tory government for at least 20 years. :bored:

That's looking like an unfortunate inevitability either way right now :/

[Marsh.]

So this would mean I'd need a passport to go to Scotland?

Writing in a cafe in Edinburgh getting further away from you?

[Ross.]

Can we vote to send Nicola Sturgeon to Australia or something?

:joker:

[Tom4784]

Get out whilst you can.

Screws England over though, we'll have a Tory government for at least 20 years. :bored:

*Desperately looks for evidence of a Scottish Relative so I can claim dual citizenship when Scotland leaves.*

[Marsh.]

*Desperately looks for evidence of a Scottish Relative so I can claim dual citizenship when Scotland leaves.*

*show up at customs with a kilt and a ginger wig*

"Och aye, I'm Josy's sister!"

[Cherie]

The SNP need to raise the funds to run this referendum by raising the taxes in Scotland, don't see why the rest of the UK should pick up the tab for Nicola's whims

[Vicky.]

Good luck to the Scottish tbh. Tempted to move up there..abandon this sinking ship :(

[Cherie]

Good luck to the Scottish tbh. Tempted to move up there..abandon this sinking ship :(

Why would you want to do when their future would be as uncertain as the UK is now :think:

[Vicky.]

Why would you want to do when their future would be as uncertain as the UK is now :think:

Because as someone who is not a millionaire, I feel I would personally have a better life under the SNP than ruled by the Tories who hate me and want me to crawl away and die in a corner as I don't earn enough to avoid my taxes :(

[Cherie]

Because as someone who is not a millionaire, I feel I would personally have a better life under the SNP than ruled by the Tories who hate me and want me to crawl away and die in a corner as I don't earn enough to avoid my taxes :(

If they go it alone they will have no choice but to raise taxes dramatically I think

[Vicky.]

If they go it alone they will have no choice but to raise taxes dramatically I think

Yeah maybe. I don't really know much about the Scottish referendum if I am honest. A few friends of mine said that if Scotland had gone it alone last time they would have been in a great position..something to do with oil off their coast or something? But not now.

Not entirely sure what that was about, its just stuff that comes up in conversations. However I have always felt 'closer' to Scotland than London. And being in the north east I guess thats true distance wise aswell as personally :laugh:

[Vicky.]

I do think Sturgeon will just keep doing this over and over til she gets the result she wants though.

[Denver]

Scotland would also not be allowed in the EU for a few years after applying

[Vicky.]

I honestly think the EU is going to collapse soon so if anyone votes based on that...

I go to Scotland a fair bit..would I actually need to take my passport if they do decide to leave?

[Denver]

I honestly think the EU is going to collapse soon so if anyone votes based on that...

I go to Scotland a fair bit..would I actually need to take my passport if they do decide to leave?

Soon as France votes out which is highly likely then only Germany will have the money to fund the EU.

you will need a Visa as Theresa May wants to end free movement between EU countries

[arista]

LT , TS and Josy
are you ready for YOUR new money €

If she wins and then Scotland Joins the EU
your Currency can only be €uro.


Utter Bliss

[Cherie]

Soon as France votes out which is highly likely then only Germany will have the money to fund the EU.

Yes you will need a passport as Theresa May wants to end free movement between EU countries

Free movement has nothing to do with passports Adam it's the right to move between EU countries, you still have use your passport whether you have free movement or not

[Denver]

Free movement has nothing to do with passports Adam it's the right to move between EU countries, you still have use your passport whether you have free movement or not

Sorry my bad i was thinking of Visa's for some reason when i wrote that

[Cherie]

Nicola say she won't join the euro, if Scotland become independant, the EU won't like that :idc:

[Denver]

Downing Street has insisted that Scottish people do not want to second independence referendum – but has shied away from saying it would block a new plebiscite.

[Vicky.]

Am I alone in wondering WTF a 'plebiscite' is :umm2:

I seem to be ridiculously behind on politics recently

[Denver]

plebiscite
ˈplɛbɪsʌɪt,ˈplɛbɪsɪt/Submit
noun
the direct vote of all the members of an electorate on an important public question such as a change in the constitution.

[James]

No then, and I am No now.

[arista]

No then, and I am No now.


Sure there may be a few of you.

But so many want the EU single market.
so they can have it
I will not stop them.

[arista]

http://e3.365dm.com/17/03/536x302/683f4ffb645f68f6592338ecf6acb7e3390104f353919ae1bf a05ac2a771fa3a_3908761.jpg?20170313142512

[Wizard.]

Voting to remain in one union but then voting to leave another which is closer, has more historical ties and is your largest market.

I bet Nicola Sturgeon's answer to the best form of defence in the face of a serial killer is to kill yourself.

[Wizard.]

I do think Sturgeon will just keep doing this over and over til she gets the result she wants though.

Being First Minister isn't good enough, she wants to be the Prime Minister of Scotland, and she'll ruin the country for a title and autonomy.

[Denver]

Sure there may be a few of you.

But so many want the EU single market.
so they can have it
I will not stop them.

They can want it all they want but they wont be given membership straight away like they think and it is up to all members of the EU to decide if they want them

[smudgie]

I think it will all have to wait until we see what is on the table leaving the European Union.
Doubt Scotland would be welcome on their own, especially as the euro is a no no.
She might shoot herself in the foot and be on the way to jobseekers if she calls it and loses.

Plus Theresa is now poised to push that button.

[Vicky.]

Being First Minister isn't good enough, she wants to be the Prime Minister of Scotland, and she'll ruin the country for a title and autonomy.

Well she seems to be what Scotland wants...going by the votes at least. I actually can't stand the woman...she grates on me so much but she does seem to want to do right by 'her people' unlike the shower of shite in Westminster

We really are stuck with the ****ing Tories for at least 20 years IMO. Its quite frightening

[MTVN]

Well so much for it being a 'once in a generation' vote. Yes there has now been the Brexit vote but everyone knew that that referendum was taking place back in 2014 should the Tories win an overall majority. It's a shame that we are leaving the EU but it is not the be all and end all - we are leaving what is, in the scheme of things, an economic and administrative union of only a few decades, it is nothing like as deep or embedded a union as the centuries old one between the UK. To break that up at the same time as the UK breaks from the EU would be incredibly destructive to all our countries and cause even more division and hatred amongst our societies.

I'm pretty sure it is now a condition of EU membership that new countries have to commit to joining the Euro at some point as well. Sturgeon might wish otherwise but an independent Scotland would have to reapply to the EU and there are lots of European politicians who would not like to make it easy for them. The UK is not the only country with separatist movements after all.

[arista]

Yes The Labour Leader JC
said he will not stop the SNP to have a Vote?

It appears so many are are changing their mind
and now want OUT of the UK.

Ref: LBC/SkyNewsHD/Ch4HDnews/Ch5HDnews/
BBCnewsHD/ R5/R4 and CNN HD

[ebandit]

Being First Minister isn't good enough, she wants to be the Prime Minister of Scotland, and she'll ruin the country for a title and autonomy.

i had thought does she really care this much about independence...........

or does she care most about making a name for herself?

Mark L

[Toy Soldier]

Well she seems to be what Scotland wants...going by the votes at least. I actually can't stand the woman...she grates on me so much but she does seem to want to do right by 'her people' unlike the shower of shite in Westminster

We really are stuck with the ****ing Tories for at least 20 years IMO. Its quite frightening
Westminster is stuck with the Tories until a meaningful new opposition party rises. Labour will never again beat them in a GE at this point.

[Vicky.]

If they go it alone they will have no choice but to raise taxes dramatically I think

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/13/ifs-independent-scotland-would-have-cut-spending-increase-taxes/

Nicola Sturgeon’s economic case for independence suffered a major blow after one of Britain’s most respected economists warned taxes would have to increase or spending cut by more than £1,000 per person.

D:

[T*]

The EU is teetering on the edge of maybe surviving but most probably crumbling with the likes of Netherlands and France perhaps looking at it... I think thiis is a bad idea for Scotland - if by the time they do get another referendum it might already be too late :worry:

[King Gizzard]

Worse than the bnp that lot.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--WVuM6poEKg/UdskuASN6RI/AAAAAAAARYs/h49l08Td6uA/s1600/wtf4.gif

[King Gizzard]

Worse than the bnp that lot.

http://i.imgur.com/1XNk8BC.gif

[Marsh.]

Nicola Sturgeon when they vote No again.

https://media.giphy.com/media/jO19WrU7Rc3Pa/giphy.gif

[Wizard.]

Yes Theresa, say you will let them have a referendum, but do it in your own time in late 2019 once we've left the EU.

[arista]

TS does not mind the €uro
he will take any Cash in his office

Well Done TS in Scotland.

[arista]

Farage was LIVE
on GMBHD itv at 7:14AM
a live link from Strasbourg.
He says this time its means that
its no Independence.

Away From England
but trapped in the €uro
all their fish will be shared , even more.


BRING IT ON

[Alf]

It comes down to a straight choice.

Governed by Westminster or governed by Brussles.


I'd check out the track records of both first.

[ebandit]

.....so thread title is misleading...no announcement

.....just more whining from ms fishychops......................if there is to be further referendum

would decision need to go to vote at parliament?

......just because many scots voted to stay in euro does not automatically follow that given changes with brexit they will vote differently re leaving UK

Mark L

[arista]

It comes down to a straight choice.

Governed by Westminster or governed by Brussles.


I'd check out the track records of both first.

Scotland Loves the EU
might take a while before they can join, though.
I hope they enough shortbread stocked,


Bring It On

[arista]

.....so thread title is misleading...no announcement

.....just more whining from ms fishychops......................if there is to be further referendum

would decision need to go to vote at parliament?

......just because many scots voted to stay in euro does not automatically follow that given changes with brexit they will vote differently re leaving UK

Mark L


There was yesterday that Scottish Lady Leader
went Live on worldwide media
DEMANDING her right.

Vote in our Parliament
with Labour Leader backing them could go through

[arista]

I do think Sturgeon will just keep doing this over and over til she gets the result she wants though.


This is not like that last one in 2014.


Now we are going to leave the EU
she now says, NO
Demanding to stay in the Single Market
which is due to GO.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_independence_referendum,_2014

[DemolitionRed]

LT , TS and Josy
are you ready for YOUR new money €

If she wins and then Scotland Joins the EU
your Currency can only be €uro.


Utter Bliss

That isn't the case. Most of the recent joiners have not done so. Nobody is objecting, nobody forcing them to. That stipulation is way back in the past and clearly forgotten now.

[arista]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/video_previews/j/i/jiddhonze6xahkf9bbulk3u0o0eflbuz-large.jpg

[arista]

That isn't the case. Most of the recent joiners have not done so. Nobody is objecting, nobody forcing them to. That stipulation is way back in the past and clearly forgotten now.


Some of recent joiners have held it off,
but still have to join.
She never likes debating the money
because it is a rule.
UK was not Fully In the EU
as we never Stupidly joined their dodgy €uro.

[DemolitionRed]

Well, circumstances have changed massively since the last vote considering Scotland wanted to remain in the Eu but England wanted out :shrug:

Exactly.... The first referendum was based on a promise that Scottish membership of the UK would mean a guarantee of EU membership. Since that guarantee is not being met now, there should be a second referendum.

[Toy Soldier]

You can take the EU promise totally out of the equation when it comes to there being good reason for a second vote to be honest. There was a whole document of "promises" drawn up at the last minute to sway the vote and 90% of it turned out to be straight up lies :umm2:.

[DemolitionRed]

Some of recent joiners have held it off,
but still have to join.
She never likes debating the money
because it is a rule.
UK was not Fully In the EU
as we never Stupidly joined their dodgy €uro.

You are totally incorrect.

[arista]

You are totally incorrect.

so are YOU

[Toy Soldier]

UK was not Fully In the EU
as we never Stupidly joined their dodgy €uro.

Except that the EU has existed for longer than the Euro, and 1/3 of EU member states don't use the Euro as their official currency, not just the UK? The Eurozone is not the same thing as the EU.

[arista]

You can take the EU promise totally out of the equation when it comes to there being good reason for a second vote to be honest. There was a whole document of "promises" drawn up at the last minute to sway the vote and 90% of it turned out to be straight up lies :umm2:.

TS
This is a Special
Scottish vote
You UP there
can have the €
stay in the single market etc


Bring It On

[arista]

Except that the EU has existed for longer than the Euro, and 1/3 of EU member states don't use the Euro as their official currency, not just the UK? The Eurozone is not the same thing as the EU.


Yes it did
and the ones not using the €uro
are not FULLY in.


Its that simple TS

Spain is in the €uro
Scotland will be in the dodgy €uro

[arista]

Switzerland wished it joined after their 2 money's
got pegged a few years back


loads went under

[Livia]

https://scontent.flhr3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17201288_1868772486739702_8305896949419966109_n.jp g?oh=2cda6752807f7f3b26e3987f3ae7d563&oe=597196B6

[Niamh.]

https://scontent.flhr3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17201288_1868772486739702_8305896949419966109_n.jp g?oh=2cda6752807f7f3b26e3987f3ae7d563&oe=597196B6

How is this in anyway even comparable lol

[Livia]

How is this in anyway even comparable lol

It's a joke.

[Toy Soldier]

It's a joke.

It doesn't make sense though. Leave comedy to the menfolk Livia, you're just furthering gender stereotypes by proving that females aren't funny :nono:.

[Livia]

It doesn't make sense though. Leave comedy to the menfolk Livia, you're just furthering gender stereotypes by proving that females aren't funny :nono:.

You're "menfolk" though TS, ant you're terribly unfunny.

[Niamh.]

^ Ok that one was funny :fan:

[Livia]

^ Ok that one was funny :fan:

Awww the first one is funny. Well, it is if you're English and you watched the rugby over the weekend.

[Niamh.]

Awww the first one is funny. Well, it is if you're English and you watched the rugby over the weekend.

Ohhhh ok it was in reference to the Rugby match, I'm a bit slow this morning

[Livia]

Ohhhh ok it was in reference to the Rugby match, I'm a bit slow this morning

Yes, the rugby! I honestly don't mind who we lose to so long as it's a fair game... except Scotland. We have to beat them.

[Toy Soldier]

You're "menfolk" though TS, ant you're terribly unfunny.

Fake news. I am not an ant.

[Cherie]

Looks like this will definately happen and if so it should be paid for by the SNP, I don't care whether you stay or go but I don't want to have to pay for a second round, so much like they put a levy on the Council tax of Londoners to pay for the Olympics they should put Scottish taxes up to pay for this.

[Kizzy]

Maybe they will and they won't mind a bit, kind of how those who voted for brexit don't mind being squeezed, it's all for the greater good.

[Toy Soldier]

Maybe they will and they won't mind a bit, kind of how those who voted for brexit don't mind being squeezed, it's all for the greater good.

:nono: "Out" logic applies to Brexit, "In" logic applies to Scottish Indy, because England. Those are the rules.

[Alf]

I'm guessing it would personally financially benefit Wee Jimmy Krankie more, being in the EU.


I think they're all a bunch of corrupt selfish tw@s, out for themselves (just like the rest of us). Don't trust any of them! Do what you think is best for you.

[Cherie]

Maybe they will and they won't mind a bit, kind of how those who voted for brexit don't mind being squeezed, it's all for the greater good.

it was a once a generation referendum, so we all paid for the first one the second one should be paid for by Scotland no ifs no buts :nono: if Nicola doesn't get the right answer she find another reason to go again so better just vote out this time and be done with it Scottish folk

[arista]

Looks like this will definately happen and if so it should be paid for by the SNP, I don't care whether you stay or go but I don't want to have to pay for a second round, so much like they put a levy on the Council tax of Londoners to pay for the Olympics they should put Scottish taxes up to pay for this.

Paid For by TS.

Some in Scotland Hates us
so Tough Titty

[Josy]

Leaving the UK to then be ruled by the EU is NOT independence.

Bad timing from Jimmy Krankie tbh since a lot of Scotland are already pissed off at her as it is.

Naw means naw.

[Vicky.]

You can take the EU promise totally out of the equation when it comes to there being good reason for a second vote to be honest. There was a whole document of "promises" drawn up at the last minute to sway the vote and 90% of it turned out to be straight up lies :umm2:.

Is anyone surprised by this?

Politicians lie to get their own way

http://c2.thejournal.ie/media/2014/04/thats-brand-new-information.gif

[Greg!]

Leaving the UK to then be ruled by the EU is NOT independence.

Bad timing from Jimmy Krankie tbh since a lot of Scotland are already pissed off at her as it is.

Naw means naw.

The EU is 28 independent countries with an equal voice working together. The UK is 3 non-independent countries that have the vast majority of their decisions taken for them by one bigger neighbour. They're completely different.

[Denver]

The EU is 28 independent countries with an equal voice working together. The UK is 3 non-independent countries that have the vast majority of their decisions taken for them by one bigger neighbour. They're completely different.

1 - The UK consists of 4 countries

2 - You have to follow by the EU rules while part of the EU

[Denver]

Plus the EU took the voices from the likes of Greece, Spain and Cyprus

[Greg!]

1 - The UK consists of 4 countries

2 - You have to follow by the EU rules while part of the EU

1- I know. Read my post properly.

2- I know.

[Niamh.]

1 - The UK consists of 4 countries

2 - You have to follow by the EU rules while part of the EU

That's what he said 3 countries being told what to do by their bigger neighbour 3+1=4

[Northern Monkey]

That's what he said 3 countries being told what to do by their bigger neighbour 3+1=4:joker:

[arista]

That SNP Woman Leader
can not tell England what do.

Who the hell does SHE
think she is..........

She can have a Vote when WE
tell her.
At the Minute we are Getting out of
Corrupt EU.

Loads of chubby MEP's
need to GO, as well.

[Niamh.]

That SNP Woman Leader
can not tell England what do.

Who the hell does SHE
think she is..........

She can have a Vote when WE
tell her.
At the Minute we are Getting out of
Corrupt EU.

Loads of chubby MEP's
need to GO

Oh Arista you really aren't helping your case at all. Last week Northern Ireland is Englands property, this week you won't do what them inferior Scots tell you mmhhmm. Not so much of a "Union" in your eyes is it?

[Denver]

That's what he said 3 countries being told what to do by their bigger neighbour 3+1=4

Well thats what happens when a you vote a majority

[Denver]

People need to give up on the dream that the EU is a paradise.

It is a parasite that has eaten away at countries and destroyed some More countries want out then want in

[Niamh.]

Well thats what happens when a you vote a majority

Ok, anyway I was just saying that Greg did actually say 4 countries

[Josy]

The EU is 28 independent countries with an equal voice working together. The UK is 3 non-independent countries that have the vast majority of their decisions taken for them by one bigger neighbour. They're completely different.
If you want to be part of the EU you follow the rules.

[arista]

If you want to be part of the EU you follow the rules.


Josy
are you ready for the €uro?

[Greg!]

If you want to be part of the EU you follow the rules.

Omg you don't say!

I'd rather an independent Scotland followed the select rules voted on by the EU member states than not be a proper country that's governed by Tories for the foreseeable future

[arista]

Oh Arista you really aren't helping your case at all. Last week Northern Ireland is Englands property, this week you won't do what them inferior Scots tell you mmhhmm. Not so much of a "Union" in your eyes is it?


I love trading with Scotland.

BUT they can only have vote after 2019
when we have left the EU

Is that OK
Fine Lady

[arista]

Omg you don't say!

I'd rather an independent Scotland followed the select rules voted on by the EU member states than not be a proper country that's governed by Tories for the foreseeable future


Not a problem
once the UK has left the corrupt EU
so around mid 2019
or before.
Is that OK Greg?

[Denver]

Omg you don't say!

I'd rather an independent Scotland followed the select rules voted on by the EU member states than not be a proper country that's governed by Tories for the foreseeable future

You dont get it?

You will have no Independency at all

The EU will take your money

Force you to follow unnecessary rules

You wont get freedom of speech

You will have to pay for health care

You wont get unemployment benefits

You taxes will most likely be sky high

[Greg!]

You dont get it?

You will have no Independency at all

The EU will take your money

Force you to follow unnecessary rules

You wont get freedom of speech

You will have to pay for health care

You wont get unemployment benefits

You taxes will most likely be sky high

Hate to break it to you but the UK will still need to pay billions to the EU anyway if they want any chance of getting a good trade deal. Plus the EU is good value for money with all the funding they give for projects across the Europe and the UK.

Pretty sure being in the EU doesn't mean you don't have freedom of speech :umm2:

Give me an example of unnecessary rules? You can disagree with them all you want (and I do with some of them) but they have a purpose.

Why would we have to pay for healthcare and why would unemployment benefits be axed? It doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

[Cherie]

I heard a star morning that Scotland does more trade with the U.K. Than it does with the EU so not sure why the SNP want to turn their backs on that in favour of the single market :idc:

The other irony is Nicola ignoring the wishes of the people she represents just a few years after they made their feelings known

[Greg!]

I heard a star morning that Scotland does more trade with the U.K. Than it does with the EU so not sure why the SNP want to turn their backs on that in favour of the single market :idc:

The other irony is Nicola ignoring the wishes of the people she represents just a few years after they made their feelings known

And trade with the rest of the UK would stop because.....? Nicola Sturgeon is not Theresa May, she doesn't want to rip her country out of any single markets

[Niamh.]

You dont get it?

You will have no Independency at all

The EU will take your money

Force you to follow unnecessary rules

You wont get freedom of speech

You will have to pay for health care

You wont get unemployment benefits

You taxes will most likely be sky high
Umm we're in th Eu and have free healthcare and unemployment benefit? Actually our unemploymwnt benefit is one of the highest in Europe

[Niamh.]

Also since when is free speech against EU law? [emoji23]

[Cherie]

And trade with the rest of the UK would stop because.....? Nicola Sturgeon is not Theresa May, she doesn't want to rip her country out of any single markets


As Scotland would no longer be part of the UK trade deals would have to be negotiated similar to how the UK have to renegotiate with the EU

[Denver]

Also since when is free speech against EU law? [emoji23]

History tells you free speech is looked down on you are expected to do as you are told when you are told

[Denver]

Hate to break it to you but the UK will still need to pay billions to the EU anyway if they want any chance of getting a good trade deal. Plus the EU is good value for money with all the funding they give for projects across the Europe and the UK.

Pretty sure being in the EU doesn't mean you don't have freedom of speech :umm2:

Give me an example of unnecessary rules? You can disagree with them all you want (and I do with some of them) but they have a purpose.

Why would we have to pay for healthcare and why would unemployment benefits be axed? It doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

The UK will not be held to ransom over trade deals and will pay what they feel is a fair price.

The EU dont fund projects all over Europe hey have destroyed many economies

Scotland would not be able to afford a benefits system or health care they will be in a position like Poland or Romania.

Unnecessary rules is free movement without checks which has led to a major attack on France

[Denver]

Umm we're in th Eu and have free healthcare and unemployment benefit? Actually our unemploymwnt benefit is one of the highest in Europe

Most countries dont have a so called benefits system.

A guy in Bulgaria told me when we was talking about Brexit that they have to live off about £100 without working and that includes rent bills food everything which is impossible and the pension there is disgraceful

[Denver]

And trade with the rest of the UK would stop because.....? Nicola Sturgeon is not Theresa May, she doesn't want to rip her country out of any single markets

Scotland will be at the back of the line when it comes to trading with the UK

[RichardG]

History tells you free speech is looked down upon you are expected to do as you are told when you are told

try saying that to a north korean refugee

[RichardG]

Scotland will be at the back of the line when it comes to trading with the UK

i love obama

[Denver]

i love obama

Why should they expect to be the top of the list?

[Alf]

Is there a main political party leader (apart from Nige Farage) from the past 30 years, that didn't want to stay in the EU?

Cameron very vocal to stay in.
Blair and Major came crawling out the wood-work, desperate to stay in.

Milliband, Kinnock, Hague, Brown, Corbyn all desperate to remain. The SNP leaders, the Green party leaders.

The only one I can think of who wanted out, who was a party leader, is Iain Duncan Smith.

I wonder why?

Do you think they might have had something to lose personally? or where they fighting for the good of the country? If political history tells us anything, then I'd guess the former.

[Denver]

Is there a main political party leader (apart from Nige Farage) from the past 30 years, that didn't want to stay in the EU?

Cameron very vocal to stay in.
Blair and Major came crawling out the wood-work, desperate to stay in.

Milliband, Kinnock, Hague, Brown, Corbyn all desperate to remain. The SNP leaders, the Green party leaders.

The only one I can think of who wanted out, who was a party leader, is Iain Duncan Smith.

I wonder why?

Do you think they might have had something to lose personally? or where they fighting for the good of the country? If political history tells us anything, then I'd guess the former.

Tbh more politicians want out then they state

[Denver]

The EU has said an independent Scotland would have to join a queue of nations seeking membership of the bloc, after Nicola Sturgeon announced plans for a second independence referendum.

Wading into the debate on the Scottish Government’s plans for a second vote, a spokesman for the European Commission (EC) said Scotland would not be granted automatic access to the EU if it split from the rest of the UK.

[Denver]

So years of uncertainty for the future of Scotland

[Niamh.]

Most countries dont have a so called benefits system.

A guy in Bulgaria told me when we was talking about Brexit that they have to live off about £100 without working and that includes rent bills food everything which is impossible and the pension there is disgraceful
How is that tbe EUs fault though, Bulgaria was like that before they joined the EU aswell

[Denver]

How is that tbe EUs fault though, Bulgaria was like that before they joined the EU aswell

Because the EU promised a better life for Bulgarian citizens but have failed to deliver

[Josy]

Omg you don't say!

I'd rather an independent Scotland followed the select rules voted on by the EU member states than not be a proper country that's governed by Tories for the foreseeable future
No need for sarcasm is there.

Any country that is part of a union and has to follow someone else's rules etc is not truly independent, it really is simple.

[Greg!]

Scotland will be at the back of the line when it comes to trading with the UK

I'm screaming is this a joke? The UK is DESPERATE for trade deals and Scotland is England's biggest export partner and NEAREST NEIGHBOUR :joker: :joker:

[Denver]

I'm screaming is this a joke? The UK is DESPERATE for trade deals and Scotland is England's biggest export partner and NEAREST NEIGHBOUR :joker: :joker:

Scotland will have nothing to offer the UK

[Greg!]

Wow

[Denver]

Scotland will have no economy and will be a stand alone country with no EU for years.

Most of their income is from the UK so once that goes they have nothing

[Greg!]

As Scotland would no longer be part of the UK trade deals would have to be negotiated similar to how the UK have to renegotiate with the EU

The UK is only renegotiating a new trade deal with the EU because the UK government has CHOSEN to leave the single market so that they can pander to UKIP voters and reduce immigration. Scotland and the UK have no reason to ditch the UK single market so they won't.

[Denver]

The UK is only renegotiating a new trade deal with the EU because the UK government has CHOSEN to leave the single market so that they can pander to UKIP voters and reduce immigration. Scotland and the UK have no reason to ditch the UK single market so they won't.

If you want to be part of the EU then you cant have a single market with the UK

[Greg!]

Hmm yes you can

[Denver]

You follow by the EU trading rules not make your own

[Niamh.]

Because the EU promised a better life for Bulgarian citizens but have failed to deliver
No Bulgarians hoped that the EU were miracle workers more like, every country is still independant despite being in the EU

[Denver]

No Bulgarians hoped that the EU were miracle workers more like, every country is still independant despite being in the EU

Is it though? look at how they have destroyed the economies of countries

[Denver]

The EU is not what it was made out to be and hasnt been for 10-15 years

[Greg!]

No need for sarcasm is there.

Any country that is part of a union and has to follow someone else's rules etc is not truly independent, it really is simple.

In that case, any state that's a part of NATO, the UN or any other international body isn't an independent country.

The fact is, while Scotland is a part of the UK, it isn't an independent country. If it leaves the UK, it will be and will be free to chart its own course in the world

[Denver]

Im all for a wall at the top of the country and Scots crying because they are no longer allowed in the UK when they want

[joeysteele]

Nice one, hope this happens and the Scots vote for independence this time.
The so called UK will have to change its name.

I will be safely tucked up out of the backward looking and moving England dominated UK,to pasturesnew in the more forward Nation of Eire thank goodness this year.
Maybe even changes loom in N Ireland too over brexit as well.

Leaving only the dictatorial England to just sink further after not only leaving the EU but tearing the so called United Kingdom apart in the process.

[Josy]

In that case, any state that's a part of NATO, the UN or any other international body isn't an independent country.

The fact is, while Scotland is a part of the UK, it isn't an independent country. If it leaves the UK, it will be and will be free to chart its own course in the world
Yeah obviously and then snp will hand the independence over to the EU which is exactly what I said on my first post that you've been arguing against ever since ;)

[Greg!]

and I explained why the UK and EU are completely different. After Independence the SNP could be voted out anyway if Scotland suddenly decided it wanted to leave the EU

[Denver]

But it will be the only party available the others are British

[Greg!]

But it will be the only party available the others are British

The tories and labour have their own Scottish parties. Like, they would continue to exist :umm2:

[Denver]

They would need to be reformed

[Cherie]

In that case, any state that's a part of NATO, the UN or any other international body isn't an independent country.

The fact is, while Scotland is a part of the UK, it isn't an independent country. If it leaves the UK, it will be and will be free to chart its own course in the world

sounds like a Brexit policy :hehe:

[Cherie]

The UK is only renegotiating a new trade deal with the EU because the UK government has CHOSEN to leave the single market so that they can pander to UKIP voters and reduce immigration. Scotland and the UK have no reason to ditch the UK single market so they won't.


You can't be part of the EU and pick and choose who you trade with, it's quite complex if you leave the UK you will have to reapply to join the EU and that could take years so you would neither have the single market or a trade deal with the UK to begin with, Spain has already said they would block Scotland as an Indy country joining, it would be even more of a mess than Brexit if that's possible

[Niamh.]

Is it though? look at how they have destroyed the economies of countries
The whole world was in recession not just those in the EU Adam, bloody hell

[Denver]

The whole world was in recession not just those in the EU Adam, bloody hell

But the EU were very unreasonable

[Niamh.]

But the EU were very unreasonable
In what way?

[Denver]

When the crisis came, the IMF provided bailout funds to Greece on the condition that it introduce painful economic reforms, which have kept it in economic depression ever since. However, going against IMF rules, these reforms were enforced without the offer of debt relief, despite the clear unsustainability of Greece’s long-term debt. Greeks saw their wages and welfare benefits slashed, further reducing the country’s ability to service its debt. As a result, the Greek economy has shrunk by roughly 30 per cent in the past six years. Eventually, in 2012, a plan for restructuring was agreed. But by then, the damage had been done. Greece’s debt obligations were spiralling out of control.

[Niamh.]

And what have happened to Greece if they werent in the EU and got no bail out when recession hit?

[Denver]

They would have most likely done it the hard way which would have ended up the best way

[Denver]

So why didn’t the IMF follow its usual course of action and offer some debt relief to beleaguered Greece? As the report notes, the IMF recognised in 2013 that ‘upfront debt restructuring would have been better for Greece’. However, this did not go ahead because it was deemed ‘not acceptable to the Euro partners’. Brussels, the report admits, was not prepared to risk revealing the unviability of the Eurozone project. The IMF duly obliged. Greece’s economy – and the people and businesses that comprise it – were to be sacrificed, lest the weakness of the Euro become clear.

[Greg!]

You can't be part of the EU and pick and choose who you trade with, it's quite complex if you leave the UK you will have to reapply to join the EU and that could take years so you would neither have the single market or a trade deal with the UK to begin with, Spain has already said they would block Scotland as an Indy country joining, it would be even more of a mess than Brexit if that's possible

Spain has never said they would block Scotland. Their PM said the Scottish situation is very different from Catalonia and a senior member of the ruling Spanish party said Scotland wouldn't be blocked. The head negotiator for Brexit in the EU parliament said that Scotland would be fast-tracked as they already meet most of the criteria for joining.

[Brillopad]

Nicola sturgeon is a hypocrite. Got her knickers in a right twist about Britain voting for independence from Europe but pushing for independence from Britain when half of Scots don't want it.

It' s about what she wants , not Scotland, Britain or anyone else.

[Denver]

Spain has never said they would block Scotland. Their PM said the Scottish situation is very different from Catalonia and a senior member of the ruling Spanish party said Scotland wouldn't be blocked. The head negotiator for Brexit in the EU parliament said that Scotland would be fast-tracked as they already meet most of the criteria for joining.

Scotland will not be fast tracked it has already been said they will have to apply and wait like everyone else

[Denver]

Also what criteria does Scotland meet?

[Greg!]

Well for one, it's been in the EU for the past 30 or so years so already adheres to EU laws and regulations.

[Greg!]

Scotland will not be fast tracked it has already been said they will have to apply and wait like everyone else

We wouldn't have to wait very long though, that's the point I'm making

[Cherie]

Spain has never said they would block Scotland. Their PM said the Scottish situation is very different from Catalonia and a senior member of the ruling Spanish party said Scotland wouldn't be blocked. The head negotiator for Brexit in the EU parliament said that Scotland would be fast-tracked as they already meet most of the criteria for joining.

It was one of today's news headlines :shrug:

Spain says independent Scotland would be at back of the EU queue
‘We prefer things to stay as they are,’ foreign minister says.
By CYNTHIA KROET 3/14/17, 1:41 PM CET Updated 3/14/17, 3:54 PM CET
Spanish Foreign Minister Alfonso Dastis on Tuesday said an independent Scotland would be at the back of the queue if it wants to join the European Union.

“Spain supports the integrity of the United Kingdom and does not encourage secession or divisions in any of the member states. We prefer things to stay as they are,” Dastis said, according to the Guardian.

The minister, on a visit to Latin America, was asked about Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon’s announcement Monday that she intends to hold a second independence referendum and wants Scots to vote on their future in the EU before the U.K. leaves the bloc.

Dastis said Scotland “would have to queue, meet the requirements for entry, hold negotiations and the result would be that these negotiations would take place.”

[Greg!]

It was one of today's news headlines :shrug:

Spain says independent Scotland would be at back of the EU queue
‘We prefer things to stay as they are,’ foreign minister says.
By CYNTHIA KROET 3/14/17, 1:41 PM CET Updated 3/14/17, 3:54 PM CET
Spanish Foreign Minister Alfonso Dastis on Tuesday said an independent Scotland would be at the back of the queue if it wants to join the European Union.

“Spain supports the integrity of the United Kingdom and does not encourage secession or divisions in any of the member states. We prefer things to stay as they are,” Dastis said, according to the Guardian.

The minister, on a visit to Latin America, was asked about Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon’s announcement Monday that she intends to hold a second independence referendum and wants Scots to vote on their future in the EU before the U.K. leaves the bloc.

Dastis said Scotland “would have to queue, meet the requirements for entry, hold negotiations and the result would be that these negotiations would take place.”

Where does it say they'd block Scotland? All it says is that Scotland would need to apply and meet the requirements, which we already knew.

[Denver]

Well for one, it's been in the EU for the past 30 or so years so already adheres to EU laws and regulations.

They were in the EU as part of another country so it is totally different.

Scotland can not finacially give anything towards the EU

[Cherie]

Where does it say they'd block Scotland? All it says is that Scotland would need to apply and meet the requirements, which we already knew.

With Spains history they won't make it easy and and I see no fast tracking as you suggested

[Cherie]

We wouldn't have to wait very long though, that's the point I'm making

How long do you think?

[Greg!]

With Spains history they won't make it easy and and I see no fast tracking as you suggested

Don't take my word for it. Many prominent people in the EU have said so, including this moustached LEGEND today

841712781288177666

[Denver]

It isnt down to one person

[Greg!]

Mess I didn't know there was a snippet of Freddy mercury at the end of that tweet

[Greg!]

It isnt down to one person

Lots of EU figures have said the same thing including the head negotiator Guy (forgot his second name).

[Greg!]

Lots of EU figures have said the same thing including the head negotiator Guy (forgot his second name).

Found him
www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/eus-chief-brexit-negotiator-agrees-8796253.amp

[Denver]

Countries who are part of the EU get their say also

[Greg!]

And none of them have ever said they'd block Scotland :)

[Denver]

Non of them have ever said they would give them a free pass

[Greg!]

Incorrect! Lots of prominent people from loads of countries have said it would be straightforward for Scotland to get in. No one from any European government have said they'd veto Scotland's entry

[Denver]

So tell me where is Scotland getting the money from? who is footing the bill?

[Greg!]

Um the same way any other country on Earth "gets the money from". All of our taxes would stay in Scotland as well rather than get spread around the UK

[Denver]

Taxes wont cover the costs unless they go sky high

[Denver]

Most other countries have things to sell/trade

[Greg!]

Most other countries have things to sell/trade

Scotland would still do that oh my god

[Denver]

What are they going to sell or trade?

[Denver]

Thy only really have oil and that wont last forever

[Denver]

Plus it isnt all theirs

[Greg!]

What are they going to sell or trade?

Adam do you think that Scotland literally has no products or resources or food or drink or anything whatsoever? I'm not going to sit here and list things that exist In Scotland that can be bought or sold bc I'd be here all day.

[Denver]

Adam do you think that Scotland literally has no products or resources or food or drink or anything whatsoever? I'm not going to sit here and list things that exist In Scotland that can be bought or sold bc I'd be here all day.

If it belongs to the UK it is not scottish

[Niamh.]

Non of them have ever said they would give them a free pass
Actually our Taoiseach has said he'd fully back Scotland and Northern Ireland re joining

[Greg!]

Actually our Taoiseach has said he'd fully back Scotland and Northern Ireland re joining

Didn't know this, I love the Irish :clap1:

[Niamh.]

Didn't know this, I love the Irish :clap1:
:love:

[Denver]

I Scotland want to join make them pay the billions of pounds a year the UK does

[Cherie]

Actually our Taoiseach has said he'd fully back Scotland and Northern Ireland re joining

Let's hope the UK don't have to bail out Ireland any time soon eh :pipe:

[Niamh.]

Let's hope the UK don't have to bail out Ireland any time soon eh :pipe:
Traitor [emoji14]

[Cherie]

Traitor [emoji14]

:joker:

[Marsh.]

Adam do you think that Scotland literally has no products or resources or food or drink or anything whatsoever? I'm not going to sit here and list things that exist In Scotland that can be bought or sold bc I'd be here all day.

Not you living on a tiny island with 3 people in a village. :love:

[Marsh.]

If it belongs to the UK it is not scottish

If it belongs to the UK it is not english

[Liberty4eva]

I am an outsider and have never been to the UK so maybe my opinion may be a little less biased than others but let me say this:
I am impressed with the tolerance demonstrated by the English for having to put up with Scotland's nationalistic (europeanistic?) impulses. They are trying to make an unstable situation even more unstable and they can't seem to wait a few years to let the dust settle before doing this.

[Josy]

And none of them have ever said they'd block Scotland :)

Spain and France have both said in the past they would veto Scotland.

[Northern Monkey]

I am an outsider and have never been to the UK so maybe my opinion may be a little less biased than others but let me say this:
I am impressed with the tolerance demonstrated by the English for having to put up with Scotland's nationalistic (europeanistic?) impulses. They are trying to make an unstable situation even more unstable and they can't seem to wait a few years to let the dust settle before doing this.I think not many people really care that much.Only the politicians.

[Cherie]

I think not many people really care that much.Only the politicians.

I think the tide might be turning on that one, The UK as a whole upheld the right of the Scottish people and supported their right to vote once on the issue, but to turn around 2.5 years later and demand a second referendum at a time when The PM will be tying up the Brexit process and won't have time to devote to a campaign to keep the union together is pretty staggeringly selfish on the SNPs behalf, I get that they want the best deal for Scotland yadda yadda but what about their fellow country men/women? What about the Scots that voted for Brexit she is piling division on division and I hope she gets slapped down very soon.

[Brillopad]

I think the tide might be turning on that one, The UK as a whole upheld the right of the Scottish people and supported their right to vote once on the issue, but to turn around 2.5 years later and demand a second referendum at a time when The PM will be tying up the Brexit process and won't have time to devote to a campaign to keep the union together is pretty staggeringly selfish on the SNPs behalf, I get that they want the best deal for Scotland yadda yadda but what about their fellow country men/women? What about the Scots that voted for Brexit she is piling division on division and I hope she gets slapped down very soon.

She gives priority to her personal opinions rather than that of her countrymen in my opinion. Neither like her or trust her. She is just another ambitious politician.

[Greg!]

Spain and France have both said in the past they would veto Scotland.

When? Give an example of any time that a member of the government for Spain or France said they'd block Scotland entering the EU.

[Josy]

When? Give an example of any time that a member of the government for Spain or France said they'd block Scotland entering the EU.
Yesterday.

[DemolitionRed]

When? Give an example of any time that a member of the government for Spain or France said they'd block Scotland entering the EU.

Spain doesn't want its autonomous regions to have any-more oxygen, and they're worried Scotland could do that. Sadly it is the political reality in Spain that would doom any attempt at Scottish Independence within the EU to failure. Spain has a veto on this and would definitely use it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11054187/Spain-and-Belgium-would-veto-an-independent-Scotlands-EU-membership.html

[Glenn.]

Hope they say yes this time and go

:clap1:

[Glenn.]

Although it's not Scotland that's the problem, it's the halfwit troll/goblin/elf in charge. Can't she just go somewhere and not come back.

[Northern Monkey]

The problem is the political parties in Scotland(and England).The Scots are stuck with a nationalist party who's ultimate aim is independence and will do anything they can to get it and forget about what the Scottish people want.The problem is that there's no valid opposition party so the Scottish people are stuck between a rock and a hard place.Just the same as England who are stuck with the Tories until an opposition party appear from somewhere.Sad state of affairs.

[Toy Soldier]

Spain is likely to **** up any chance at EU membership simply because they have their own regions who want independence, and they don't want them encouraged.

People get a bit stuck on being "allowed" full EU membership, though. Scotland could quite easily emulate the Denmark route to single market access... the population size / distribution etc. of the two countries is very similar. Denmark has always said that the reason it works for them is because they have a relatively small population and can "piggyback" EU trade laws (they simply alter their own laws to mirror EU law when it comes to trade, as soon as they change in the EU). It actually seems a fairly sensible route for Scotland, IMO.

[DemolitionRed]

The problem is the political parties in Scotland(and England).The Scots are stuck with a nationalist party who's ultimate aim is independence and will do anything they can to get it and forget about what the Scottish people want.The problem is that there's no valid opposition party so the Scottish people are stuck between a rock and a hard place.Just the same as England who are stuck with the Tories until an opposition party appear from somewhere.Sad state of affairs.

Whilst I agree, it doesn't seem at all practical for Scotland to remain in the single market when the UK doesn't.

Scottish trade with the rest of the UK is over four times larger than it's trade with the rest of the EU. Scottish exports per year to the UK are around GBP 50 billion - compared to GBP 12 billion to the rest of the EU. Exports to the rest of the UK are over a third of Scottish GBP (GBP 150 billion).

As for May, if she had shown a willingness to engage in discussions with the Scottish Government and its detailed 'Framework Plan' and negotiate in good faith (as promised last June), this present situation would not have arisen. May's been given way too easy a time recently not least by the now dreadfully ineffective Jeremy Corbyn. This, at least, is going to make her work for her money!

[jaxie]

As has already been said both Spain and France have said they would veto Scotland's attempts to join or remain in the EU. I can't honestly see the EU taking them on anyway unless they can get their overspending in check because apparently Scotland has a huge deficit. I mean why would a club take in a country with deficit problems when they are already squeezing the life out of Greece and Spain for the same problems?

Personally leaving the UK for the EU seems rather a betrayal of the idea of independence to me. But good luck to them if they can wangle it. They are going to need it.

As to what Red said above about May's unwillingness to engage with Scotland's framework plan, I think that's a fairly premature thing to accuse her of at this stage. No negotiations have been started, because we've all been faffing about in the courts and the lords. No one really has any notion of what the EU are going to willing to negotiate on apart from the things they've stated in the press, ie no single market, no special treatment for Scotland.

It surprises me really that people don't seem to notice they keep saying no single market so the government have said ok we won't ask for it, instead we'll ask for a free trade agreement. Seems a fairly practical work around to me if the single market is such a huge stumbling block for the EU. A free trade agreement which is basically like being part of the single market seems to save face all round.

One other thing to wonder on if Scotland is going for some sort of piggyback EU deal as TS suggests, what about the currency? I wouldn't have thought it practical if they leave the UK but want to be a part of the EU that keeping the pound is really very practical.

[DemolitionRed]

Lets just remind ourselves that only a few years ago we had all the English-based political parties banding together to convince Scotland to stay in a union... the UK, under the slogan "Better Together" and we convinced the Scots, though by a fairly narrow margin of around 55-45%. Now they turn around and tell Scotland that they can no longer be in a union with the rest of Europe they voted to stay with, basically because English people say so.

There seems to be this underlying belief that however bad the English Govt are they are better for Scotland than any other possibility. If I were a Scot I would likely want to break away from this shadow of a lost empire.

I voted to get out btw but that doesn't mean I can't support Scotland to remain if they so wish.

[Greg!]

"Spain would veto Scotlands membership" is something peddled a lot on here and by unionists in the debate generally. Yet no one from the Spanish government has ever said this was the case, the Spanish PM said that Scotland is a very different situation from Catalonia and the leader MEP from the Spanish ruling party flat out said Scotland WOULDNT be vetoed. It's a myth.

[Greg!]

Yesterday.

Let's see some quotes please

[Livia]

"Spain would veto Scotlands membership" is something peddled a lot on here and by unionists in the debate generally. Yet no one from the Spanish government has ever said this was the case, the Spanish PM said that Scotland is a very different situation from Catalonia and the leader MEP from the Spanish ruling party flat out said Scotland WOULDNT be vetoed. It's a myth.

If you believe that, then you've nothing to worry about.

[jaxie]

Let's see some quotes please

Mr Google? :shrug:

The Spanish have said they would veto Scotland, several times in the press. So have the French.

[Cherie]

Let's see some quotes please

You need to provide links as well for some of your claims Greg!

[Greg!]

No one from the Spanish government has ever said they would veto Scotland's membership of the EU. Fact.

[Greg!]

You need to provide links as well for some of your claims Greg!

I have, several times

[Livia]

Mr Google? :shrug:

The Spanish have said they would veto Scotland, several times in the press. So have the French.

And so has Belgium, Italy and Romania.

Hey Jax!

[Greg!]

And so has Belgium, Italy and Romania.

Hey Jax!

No they haven't.

[Josy]

Let's see some quotes please
Someone already linked an article about from yesterday...

[jaxie]

No they haven't.

If you want to be 'independent' why would you want to be in the EU anyway?

[Josy]

No one from the Spanish government has ever said they would veto Scotland's membership of the EU. Fact.
Yes they have...

[Niamh.]

https://wildernessofpeace.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/guyverhofstadttwitter.jpg

https://wildernessofpeace.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/czechconsul.jpg

The issue of Scotland’s position has already been placed to the fore by First Minister Nicola Sturgeon. The future of Scotland within the UK is a matter for the people of Scotland. However the future of Scotland within the EU should it leave the UK is a matter which concerns all EU states.
I and my party believe that it would be unacceptable for Scotland to be treated as a normal candidate country should it seek to remain as a member of the EU. It currently implements all EU laws. It manifestly would not need to be reviewed for its standards of governance and ability to implement EU laws. It has a strong administration, a distinct legal system and an absolute commitment to European ideals.
Scotland is strong enough to advocate for itself, but Ireland should be its friend and demand fair play should it seek to remain in the EU.
– Statement by Micheál Martin, 27th June 2016

and there's loads more in the link...........

https://wildernessofpeace.wordpress.com/2016/07/03/scotlands-friends-in-europe/

[Greg!]

Someone already linked an article about from yesterday...

No Josy, all I've seen on here are links from (mostly) right-wing newspapers with headlines like "Sturgeon DEVESTATED as Spain would block Scotland EU membership." In every one of the articles, it's always said by someone like "the leader of a eurosceptic think tank" or "a former member of an EU policy group", NOT a member of the Spanish government. Because no one from the Spanish government has ever said they would vote against Scotland entering the EU.

[Denver]

France and Spain will take the same attitude as with Turkey if they are elected into the EU they will pull out

[Josy]

No Josy, all I've seen on here are links from (mostly) right-wing newspapers with headlines like "Sturgeon DEVESTATED as Spain would block Scotland EU membership." In every one of the articles, it's always said by someone like "the leader of a eurosceptic think tank" or "a former member of an EU policy group", NOT a member of the Spanish government. Because no one from the Spanish government has ever said they would vote against Scotland entering the EU.
Go Google it with an open mind rather than looking for what you want to see, they have, both recently and during the last referendum..