Last night a lot of Brits went on US television and trashed the UK's multiculturalism

[Withano]

I don't see much blending. Sometimes belief systems are just too different.

In all seriousness, do you trust your own perception as far as this topic is concerned?

[Marsh.]

I don't see much blending. Sometimes belief systems are just too different.
Belief systems and religions have evolved too.

[Marsh.]

Incorrect Britain has been exactly the same for several thousand years. The chippy near me has been open for over 900.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
:joker:

[Brillopad]

Belief systems and religions have evolved too.

Clearly some a lot more than others.

[Marsh.]

Clearly some a lot more than others.
Doesn't change what I said.

[Withano]

Clearly some a lot more than others.

Which religion are you? You seem very reluctant to intergrate. Would you say you are reflective of everyone else from your religion?

[Brillopad]

Which religion are you? You seem very reluctant to intergrate. Would you say you are reflective of everyone else from your religion?

I'm not religous. I have little time for people who use religion to control and imprison people.

[Kizzy]

Integration? :joker: Weren't we discussing Ireland on another thread?...Great example of Christian integration there. :/

[Niamh.]

Integration? :joker: Weren't we discussing Ireland on another thread?...Great example of Christian integration there. :/
The problems in NI are less about religion and more about being Irish Vs being British imo

[Kazanne]

So you see the UK having curry houses as an invasion of our culture, but think it's cute that Pakistan has fish and chip shops rather than it being, well, a lasting symbol of British colonialism? :think:

It was said in jest,sense of humour bypass much!! who said anything about curry houses being an invasion ? can't beat a decent veggie curry !!!

[Marsh.]

Integration? :joker: Weren't we discussing Ireland on another thread?...Great example of Christian integration there. :/

Hilarious as we were just saying how all religions integrate with one another.


Oh wait, nobody did.

[Marsh.]

It was said in jest,sense of humour bypass much!! who said anything about curry houses being an invasion ? can't beat a decent veggie curry !!!

Veggie? VEGGIE? You scrape that into the dustbin and get yourself a proper curry missy. :fist:

[Kizzy]

The problems in NI are less about religion and more about being Irish Vs being British imo

So the Catholic v Protestant thing is simply a cover?

[Kizzy]

Hilarious as we were just saying how all religions integrate with one another.


Oh wait, nobody did.

I felt the tone was Christians integrate better than other religions, I don't believe they do. I was highlighting this, hope this explains my view to your satisfaction.

[Niamh.]

So the Catholic v Protestant thing is simply a cover?

No need for the sarcasm Kizzy

The Irish in NI are mainly catholic because Ireland is mainly a Catholic country and the "British" in the Northern Ireland are mainly Protestant because Britain is a mainly protestant country. The catholics in NI are not trying to convert the Protestants or force their religious wills on the Protestants and vice versa so it's not a religious war imo, they were never fighting in the name of religion, it was always a nationality and civil rights issue not a religious one. It's Protestant V's catholics because like I said Irish are more often Catholics and British are more often Protestant :shrug:

[user104658]

So the Catholic v Protestant thing is simply a cover?

The issue spills over into Scotland quite a bit and I would say, certainly here at least, that it is 90% "Tribal" and has nothing to do with the actual religion. It centers heavily around Rangers/Celtic, if anything. If you asked anyone "involved" in the ... bickering ... then they would certainly say it's about Catholics and Protestants (although they would use less polite terms) but if you dig a little deeper, most of them don't follow anything religious at all. I'd say it's often more simple than being about ANY religious or political ideology of any kind... it's simply "two sides" who have been at each other's throats for centuries and pass the inherited mutual prejudice along family lines. It's not "about" anything. They hate each other 'cos they hate each other.

[Northern Monkey]

Veggie? VEGGIE? You scrape that into the dustbin and get yourself a proper curry missy. :fist:

+1

[Northern Monkey]

No need for the sarcasm Kizzy

The Irish in NI are mainly catholic because Ireland is mainly a Catholic country and the "British" in the Northern Ireland are mainly Protestant because Britain is a mainly protestant country. The catholics in NI are not trying to convert the Protestants or force their religious wills on the Protestants so it's not a religious war imo, they were never fighting in the name of religion, it was always a nationality and civil rights issue not a religious one. It's Protestant V's catholics because like I said Irish are more often Catholics and British are more often Protestant :shrug:

That's how i saw it aswell.Although i did work with an Irish lad who hated protestants.He'd call them "Dem ****'n steel rods" "Da ****'n prods".

[Niamh.]

That's how i saw it aswell.Although i did work with an Irish lad who hated protestants.He'd call them "Dem ****'n steel rods" "Da ****'n prods".

Lovely :laugh: But even there, I'm guessing he doesn't really hate them because they follow a slightly different version of Christianity to him, it was probably more like TS said, a tribal/national thing when you get down to it

[Kizzy]

No need for the sarcasm Kizzy

The Irish in NI are mainly catholic because Ireland is mainly a Catholic country and the "British" in the Northern Ireland are mainly Protestant because Britain is a mainly protestant country. The catholics in NI are not trying to convert the Protestants or force their religious wills on the Protestants so it's not a religious war imo, they were never fighting in the name of religion, it was always a nationality and civil rights issue not a religious one. It's Protestant V's catholics because like I said Irish are more often Catholics and British are more often Protestant :shrug:

I wasn't being sarcastic, England wasn't mainly a Protestant country until the reformation, which was a very religious thing.

[Niamh.]

I wasn't being sarcastic, England wasn't mainly a Protestant country until the reformation, which was a very religious thing.

The reformation was in the 16th century though, Northern Ireland was only formed in 1921, I'm talking specifically about NI

[Kizzy]

The reformation was in the 16th century though, Northern Ireland was only formed in 1921, I'm talking specifically about NI

Yes so am I, the ill feeling goes back that far isn't that why Orangemen are called Orangemen?

[Cherie]

The issue spills over into Scotland quite a bit and I would say, certainly here at least, that it is 90% "Tribal" and has nothing to do with the actual religion. It centers heavily around Rangers/Celtic, if anything. If you asked anyone "involved" in the ... bickering ... then they would certainly say it's about Catholics and Protestants (although they would use less polite terms) but if you dig a little deeper, most of them don't follow anything religious at all. I'd say it's often more simple than being about ANY religious or political ideology of any kind... it's simply "two sides" who have been at each other's throats for centuries and pass the inherited mutual prejudice along family lines. It's not "about" anything. They hate each other 'cos they hate each other.

I don't think you can say its "not about anything" :umm2: many families will have had people killed by both sides during the troubles, and going back further by the the black and tans, and going back further by the English letting people literally die during the famine.. yes for some people it might be about nothing but only if they have no family history. It is time to put it aside, and move forward that said though some people are still very angry about what happened during the troubles as evidenced by the Martin McGuinness thread and are not ready to put it aside and it is easy for me to say because I didn't lose anyone in the troubles, my Grand Uncle was killed by the black and tans and is remembered on a monument in my home town and I still remember my grandmother his sister telling me stories about it. I expect by the time the generations who were involved in the troubles die out and as long as there is no repeat, then in two generations time people might be ready to move on?

[Cherie]

We will have to wait for Niamh to expire as well she is not from the Rebel County for nothing :laugh:

[Niamh.]

Yes so am I, the ill feeling goes back that far isn't that why Orangemen are called Orangemen?

Kizzy the ill feeling is because Ireland was split in two and half the people wanted a unified Ireland and the other "British" half did not. The Orange men are just a way to show how British they are. There were actually Protestants who were in the IRA so that alone blows the theory of it being a religious war out of the water

[Niamh.]

We will have to wait for Niamh to expire as well she is not from the Rebel County for nothing :laugh:

Once we get our Independence from Dublin, we'll let it go :fist:

http://cdn.thejournal.ie/embeds/twitter/ede50c0db17a3deb1473a5b5a4e9bf32.png

[Kizzy]

I don't think you can say its "not about anything" :umm2: many families will have had people killed by both sides during the troubles, and going back further by the the black and tans, and going back further by the English letting people literally die during the famine.. yes for some people it might be about nothing but only if they have no family history. It is time to put it aside, and move forward that said though some people are still very angry about what happened during the troubles as evidenced by the Martin McGuinness thread and are not ready to put it aside and it is easy for me to say because I didn't lose anyone in the troubles, my Great Grand Uncle was killed by the black and tans and is remembered on a monument in my home town and I still remember my grandmother his sister telling me stories about it. I expect by the time the generations who were involved in the troubles die out and as long as there is no repeat, then in two generations time people might be ready to move on?

Thank you Cherie, that is what I was trying to reference in that thread with the 'where did it start , where will it end' comment meant just that there is still a lot of anger.

[Cherie]

Once we get our Independence from Dublin, we'll let it go :fist:

http://cdn.thejournal.ie/embeds/twitter/ede50c0db17a3deb1473a5b5a4e9bf32.png

Up the rebels :hehe:

[Cherie]

Thank you Cherie, that is what I was trying to reference in that thread with the 'where did it start , where will it end' comment meant just that there is still a lot of anger.

You are welcome.

[Kizzy]

Kizzy the ill feeling is because Ireland was split in two and half the people wanted a unified Ireland and the other "British" half did not. The Orange men are just a way to show how British they are. There were actually Protestants who were in the IRA so that alone blows the theory of it being a religious war out of the water

There was only a British half as they were flooded in to choke off the threat of a catholic uprising from Spain using Ireland as a channel to England weren't they initially?

[Niamh.]

There was only a British half as they were flooded in to choke off the threat of a catholic uprising from Spain using Ireland as a channel to England weren't they initially?

It doesn't matter why they were there, they were there and that's not what the troubles in NI were about, it was about nationality and civil rights

[Cherie]

also coming back to the point about "it being about nothing" every July, many families come south to avoid the Orange Men marching season, as the atmosphere is so intimidating, so even though there are "no troubles" as such, though to listen to someone from NI on the radio this morning there is still a lot going on that doesn't get reported in the rest of the UK ,there are still things going on that affect families and life in NI

[Kizzy]

It doesn't matter why they were there, they were there and that's not what the troubles in NI were about, it was about nationality and civil rights

It does matter in the context of the debate, now it is about nationality and civil rights but historically it was a holy war.

[Niamh.]

It does matter in the context of the debate, now it is about nationality and civil rights but historically it was a holy war.

The troubles in Northern Ireland were not historically a holy war though. the reason for more British to be in NI than the rest of Ireland may have been but not the reason why the troubles started and not the reason there was a division between the two communities.

[Kizzy]

The troubles in Northern Ireland were not historically a holy war though. the reason for more British to be in NI than the rest of Ireland may have been but not the reason why the troubles started and not the reason there was a division between the two communities.

Well I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one Niamh.

[Kazanne]

Veggie? VEGGIE? You scrape that into the dustbin and get yourself a proper curry missy. :fist:

LOL, you should try one Marsh,they are yummy,and no frolicking little lamb died for it:fist::wavey:

[Kizzy]

Isn't chicken curry our national dish? :hehe:

[Niamh.]

Well I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one Niamh.

I agree we should agree to disagree :love:

[jet]

The issue spills over into Scotland quite a bit and I would say, certainly here at least, that it is 90% "Tribal" and has nothing to do with the actual religion. It centers heavily around Rangers/Celtic, if anything. If you asked anyone "involved" in the ... bickering ... then they would certainly say it's about Catholics and Protestants (although they would use less polite terms) but if you dig a little deeper, most of them don't follow anything religious at all. I'd say it's often more simple than being about ANY religious or political ideology of any kind... it's simply "two sides" who have been at each other's throats for centuries and pass the inherited mutual prejudice along family lines. It's not "about" anything. They hate each other 'cos they hate each other.

That's close to it TS. I was born in and have lived most of my life in N Ireland, in and around Belfast (I'm living in Dublin at the moment) and those 'sides' are a traditional thing. It just 'is'. When I was growing up most of us didn't know 'why'. We Catholics had some idea, we were taught a little Irish history in school but the Protestants had no idea, they only learned about British history. However, both sides got along just fine. Catholics would take their kids along to the see the Orangemen Parade on the 12th of July, it was a great day out. The troubles changed all that.
It was the 'hardliners' on both sides who created the Troubles. Civil rights? As a Catholic I never felt hard done by. I had the same civil rights as the Prods did. It was more of a social problem back then. Many Catholics standard of living wasn't as good as Protestants, but truth be told, that was because many had big families, many with more than 8 children, some with as many as 15 (there were 4 of us) while the Protestants usually had no more than 2 or 3, so they were stretched.
The size of Catholic families caused problems right across the board; in education, in housing, in employment etc. There were separate schools for each religion (many Catholics and Protestants lived in separate areas) in some cases employers hired according to religion too. There just weren't council houses big enough or enough jobs to go around. This created some poverty in certain areas in the bigger cities although there was always 'social security' for those in dire need. No - one was ever in any danger of starving, far from it in fact. Everyone, regardless of religion got free milk and free vitamins for every child up to 5 years old back then.
Then there is the United Ireland question. Again, it is the hardliners who caused the trouble here. The UK subsidise N. Ireland to the tune of 2 billion every year. The standard of living here is very good...so the devil you know and all that. The Republican government doesn't want us, and they could ill afford us. If they had us, their residents would pay for us with much higher taxes.The British don't really want us either. We're pesky.
In my experience, the average Catholic doesn't really want a U Ireland, they have it too good with all the free health care and dental care and free prescriptions and social security benefits. The average Protestant obviously doesn't want it but aren't that fond of the British and don't call themselves British. Most of them identify as Northern Irish. In an ideal world, with a great economy of our own, I'd say both sides would vote to be an independent country...no UK, no Republic.
....and the average Catholics and Protestants really don't hate each other. Even during the troubles, most people from both sides managed to keep long standing friendships intact and were disgusted with the violence.
It was the hardliners and those who they brainwashed/recruited that caused the mayhem and destruction.
And I'm proud to say that it has been noted many times over that N.Ireland is one of the friendliest ever places in Europe to visit. And it's beautiful too. The average Catholic and Protestant are still getting along just fine. Come and see for yourself. :laugh:

[DemolitionRed]

Jet... Thanks. I really enjoyed your insightful post.

[Marsh.]

I felt the tone was Christians integrate better than other religions, I don't believe they do. I was highlighting this, hope this explains my view to your satisfaction.

Who suggested that though?

Nobody did.

[jet]

Jet... Thanks. I really enjoyed your insightful post.

Thank you. :)

So much nonsense is written about N.Ireland. Catholics and Protestants here are always aware of our 'differences' historically, but in reality the majority got/get along and never wanted the Troubles thrust upon us...and there were the terrorist organisations who lined their pockets and added to the citizens misery with protection rackets and drug dealing on top of all the bombings and shootings....

[Denver]

Isn't chicken curry our national dish? :hehe:

I dont think we actually have one

[user104658]

I dont think we actually have one

True, as England has no culture.

Scotland has Haggis, Ireland has potatoes, England has... Doner Kebabs? :think:

[Northern Monkey]

Our national dish is Chicken Tikka McFlurry with mushy peas

[Northern Monkey]

And Yorkshire puddings

[Marsh.]

Our national dish is bangers and mash. :fist:

[Marsh.]

Or the English breakfast idk.

[Denver]

We have so many but non that is top

[Denver]

Although maybe the Sunday roast

[Withano]

TS was right all along, its a kebab.

[Denver]

A kebab is Turkish/Greek/Bulgarian/Pakistani so it isnt

[jet]

also coming back to the point about "it being about nothing" every July, many families come south to avoid the Orange Men marching season, as the atmosphere is so intimidating, so even though there are "no troubles" as such, though to listen to someone from NI on the radio this morning there is still a lot going on that doesn't get reported in the rest of the UK ,there are still things going on that affect families and life in NI

What rubbish. I've never been intimidated. I let them get on with it, as do most of us. If you want trouble you'll get it no matter where you are. If you don't bother them, they won't bother you and vice versa. I remember the days when my parents took us to watch the 12th of July parade. There were plenty of Catholics who enjoyed the day out. :laugh:
Nowadays, a minority of Catholics on the outskirts of Belfast city (where the main parades occur) live in certain 'flashpoints' and don't want them walking the traditional routes near their areas and there can be skirmishes. A 'Parades Commision' has been set up to try to settle the differences. But most of the parade occurs in the city centre and families and tourists come out in force and there is never any trouble there. Parades in other parts of N Ireland pass off peaceably too.
IMO let them have their culture, and let us have ours. There is far more to worry about in the world today than Protestants getting all patriotic about King Billy and marching about with their flutes and accordion bands.
This 'intimidating atmosphere' is just more hyperbole, it really is overly exaggerated and I'm sick of hearing it from people who don't even live here.

[Alf]

I'd say, Fish and Chips is the national dish.

[Withano]

A kebab is Turkish/Greek/Bulgarian/Pakistani so it isnt

Most Brits are Turkish/Greek/Bulgarian/Pakistani tbf

[Kizzy]

Who suggested that though?

Nobody did.

I didn't say anybody suggested it, I said THE TONE suggested other religions were less willing to integrate.

[Cherie]

What rubbish. I've never been intimidated. I let them get on with it, as do most of us. If you want trouble you'll get it no matter where you are. If you don't bother them, they won't bother you and vice versa. I remember the days when my parents took us to watch the 12th of July parade. There were plenty of Catholics who enjoyed the day out. :laugh:
Nowadays, a minority of Catholics on the outskirts of Belfast city (where the main parades occur) live in certain 'flashpoints' and don't want them walking the traditional routes near their areas and there can be skirmishes. A 'Parades Commision' has been set up to try to settle the differences. But most of the parade occurs in the city centre and families and tourists come out in force and there is never any trouble there. Parades in other parts of N Ireland pass off peaceably too.
IMO let them have their culture, and let us have ours. There is far more to worry about in the world today than Protestants getting all patriotic about King Billy and marching about with their flutes and accordion bands.
This 'intimidating atmosphere' is just more hyperbole, it really is overly exaggerated and I'm sick of hearing it from people who don't even live here.

Don't call my post rubbish thanks, I've met many NI families in the on holiday in the South in who July referred to this, you are speaking from your experience not the whole of NI, I lost all interest in what you had to say when you posted the DM as a credible piece of journalism on NI

[jet]

Don't call my post rubbish thanks, I've met many NI families in the on holiday in the South in who July referred to this, you are speaking from your experience not the whole of NI, I lost all interest in what you had to say when you posted the DM as a credible piece of journalism on NI

I didn't call your post rubbish, I was referring to what they have told you as rubbish. Who is supposed to be intimidating these many families? The Protestants or the Catholics? I could understand people feeling intimidated during the Troubles, but not before or after....
Some people just like to dramatise and tell people what they want to hear.

As for the DM Cherie, the article I was referring to was an essay written by a respectable author for the DM. If you only ever read things that you know you will agree with how will you ever get a balanced view of anything?

[Niamh.]

True, as England has no culture.

Scotland has Haggis, Ireland has potatoes, England has... Doner Kebabs? :think:

Potatoes and Guinness :hee:

[user104658]

Potatoes and Guinness :hee:

I love that in Scotland, no one actually LIKES Guinness, but on St Patricks day everyone just ... drinks it anyway and suffers. Out of sheer respect. "I am not enjoying this AT ALL but it's St Paddys so..."

[Niamh.]

I love that in Scotland, no one actually LIKES Guinness, but on St Patricks day everyone just ... drinks it anyway and suffers. Out of sheer respect. "I am not enjoying this AT ALL but it's St Paddys so..."

:laugh2:

The only way i can drink Guinness is if I put a shot of Tia Maria or Kahlua in it, it's actually really nice then

[jet]

:laugh2:

The only way i can drink Guinness is if I put a shot of Tia Maria or Kahlua in it, it's actually really nice then

When I was a lad my Dad used to say Guinness put hairs on your chest so I made sure I developed a taste for it when I came of drinking age. :laugh:

[Niamh.]

When I was a lad my Dad used to say Guinness put hairs on your chest so I made sure I developed a taste for it when I came of drinking age. :laugh:

:laugh:

of course here in Cork it's Murphys all the way over Guinness

[jet]

:laugh:

of course here in Cork it's Murphys all the way over Guinness

I like a Murphy's too. All this stout talk is making me thirsty, it's just as well Thursday is pub night (and Friday.) :hee:

[Niamh.]

I like a Murphy's too. All this stout talk is making me thirsty, it's just as well Thursday is pub night (and Friday.) :hee:

I had a few cheeky glasses of wine last night, i feel very seedy today now though :bawling:

[Northern Monkey]

Not gonna lie.Guiness was better in Belfast.Don't know if it was just my hotel and the pubs I visited but every pint was great.Usually hit and miss in England.

[jet]

I had a few cheeky glasses of wine last night, i feel very seedy today now though :bawling:

Awww, I sympathise, that's me on Fri and Sat mornings. :laugh:

[user104658]

Not gonna lie.Guiness was better in Belfast.Don't know if it was just my hotel and the pubs I visited but every pint was great.Usually hit and miss in England.

I've heard a lot of people say that it tastes different (better) in Ireland, actually. I wonder if it's true or some sort of placebo effect :think:.

[Cherie]

I didn't call your post rubbish, I was referring to what they have told you as rubbish. Who is supposed to be intimidating these many families? The Protestants or the Catholics? I could understand people feeling intimidated during the Troubles, but not before or after....
Some people just like to dramatise and tell people what they want to hear.

As for the DM Cherie, the article I was referring to was an essay written by a respectable author for the DM. If you only ever read things that you know you will agree with how will you ever get a balanced view of anything?

I do have a balanced view, just because I refuse to read articles in DM about it doesn't mean I don't read elsewhere, and if you think the DM presents a balanced view of Ireland you really need to widen your reading material. E

[jet]

Not gonna lie.Guiness was better in Belfast.Don't know if it was just my hotel and the pubs I visited but every pint was great.Usually hit and miss in England.

Evidence that Guinness is better in Ireland than elsewhere...:hee:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1363835/Why-Guinness-tastes-better-Ireland-world.html

[Cherie]

Not gonna lie.Guiness was better in Belfast.Don't know if it was just my hotel and the pubs I visited but every pint was great.Usually hit and miss in England.

Because pouring a pint is a craft that not every barperson can get right, , I hate Guinness, a disgusting drink :yuk:

[Northern Monkey]

I've heard a lot of people say that it tastes different (better) in Ireland, actually. I wonder if it's true or some sort of placebo effect :think:.

Yeah part of me thinks it was just me thinking 'i'm in Ireland drinking guiness,It's so much better here' although every pint was cold and didn't taste like it was sat festering in a barrel for a month.No bitterness from how I remember it.

[Niamh.]

Jet has posted the scientific evidence of why it's better in Ireland :hee:

[jet]

I do have a balanced view, just because I refuse to read articles in DM about it doesn't mean I don't read elsewhere, and if you think the DM presents a balanced view of Ireland you really need to widen your reading material. E

I don't think any paper presents a balanced view, they all have their own angles, the DM certainly do, but that doesn't mean everything they print is false or twisted. Their Essays by invited commentators or authors are always good reads. I read a wide variety of papers, I find it interesting to compare different perspectives and then make up my own mind.
I think you can safely read the above DM article on Guinness (not McGuinness) :hehe: it's just as true as the article on him was, but you'll never have an opinion on that as you won't read it.

[Northern Monkey]

Evidence that Guinness is better in Ireland than elsewhere...:hee:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1363835/Why-Guinness-tastes-better-Ireland-world.html

That explains it then.Partly mental and partly because it has'nt had to emigrate.

[Niamh.]

That explains it then.Partly mental and partly because it has'nt had to emigrate.

Bloody immigrants :fist:

[Northern Monkey]

Bloody immigrants :fist:

Yeah never taste as good when they're not at home......or something

[jet]

Bloody immigrants :fist:

:laugh2:

[Marsh.]

I didn't say anybody suggested it, I said THE TONE suggested other religions were less willing to integrate.
I meant Christianity wasn't mentioned?

[Tozzie]

When I was a lad my Dad used to say Guinness put hairs on your chest so I made sure I developed a taste for it when I came of drinking age. :laugh:

so thats why I've got hairs on me nips. drinking Guinness, scuse me whilst I go pluck 'em :hehe:

[Kizzy]

I meant Christianity wasn't mentioned?

Then what was being measured against... Muslims are less willing to integrate than whom?