Last night a lot of Brits went on US television and trashed the UK's multiculturalism

[Liberty4eva]

Fox is the most watched network on American television and last night a lot of prominent British people went on there to trash Britain's immigration policies. Whether you agree with it or not, I do think it is healthy to listen to a different point a view every now and again.

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It seems like they're warning America to not adopt similar immigration policies.

[Firewire]

Why does Hopkins look 65?

[Scarlett.]

Katie Hopkins is a disgusting woman who only stays in the public eye by saying really ****ty things.

Nigel Farage is a far right politician and a well documented liar.

Fox News is... well, it's Fox News, it's reputation precedes it.

[user104658]

Nigel Farage and Katie Hopkins :joker:. Was this some sort of parody?

[Kazanne]

At least some Brits are not afraid to speak their minds nor should they be.

[Scarlett.]

Funny going on about the immigration policies when the terrorist was, you know, UK born.

[Liberty4eva]

Nigel Farage and Katie Hopkins :joker:. Was this some sort of parody?

You have to understand something. In the USA both of these people are well respected (and liked). This gives you a glimpse of how people over here perceive this, if anyone is curious.

[Kazanne]

You have to understand something. In the USA both of these people are well respected (and liked). This gives you a glimpse of how people over here perceive this, if anyone is curious.

I like them both too,I think they make a lot of sense,I heard no lies.

[user104658]

You have to understand something. In the USA both of these people are well respected (and liked). This gives you a glimpse of how people over here perceive this, if anyone is curious.

I couldn't give a **** who does or doesn't "like and respect" them, I have my own opinions of them and they're not influenced by what anyone else thinks, let alone a population half way around the world who have been spoon fed little cherry-picked snippets of them on Foxtard News.

[Liberty4eva]

I couldn't give a **** who does or doesn't "like and respect" them, I have my own opinions of them and they're not influenced by what anyone else thinks, let alone a population half way around the world who have been spoon fed little cherry-picked snippets of them on Foxtard News.

Yeah, well why are you responding to this thread? :shrug: Seems like an oxymoron. :smug:

[Tom4784]

Fox News + those two odious twatbags.

Nothing to see here.

[Marsh.]

"A lot of prominent British people trashed the UK"

Another day in the sad lives of Katie Hopkins and Nigel Farage.

[the truth]

Tragically there are many home grown terrorists....Clearly they are influenced by isis and are able to communicate via the web and no doubt they visit the middle east too, where they are often trained in terrorist acts.

Tightening immigration may not have affected this situation hugely. Though tightening up scrutiny of terrorist websites , tightening border controls to vet people more closely, whether they are born in the UK or not, if theyre travellingf regularly to the middle east to receive terrorist training we need to be more vigilant. the terrorists in paris and belgium had all travelled many times back and forth unchecked across europeans open borders and schengen countries, from the middle east carrying weapons back to europe. this open border policy is very dangerous and also makes the intelligence job of catching the terrorists infinitely harder

Fox is extreme news, hyped up and paid for by certain corporations. But the BBC and state tv in general is controlled by liberals and over run with politically correct rules and laws to such a degree that they have lost massive credibility for many years.

[the truth]

They also need to stop wasting nearly half the police budget on sexual allegations going back 50 odd years ago. You have to draw the line somehwere, there are statutes of limitation on all sorts of abuses whether by the nhs or public bodies or corporations etc why is it infinite against individuals. why is investigating why a famous person pinches someones bottom 40 odd years ago seen as a priority on spending, ahead of fighting abuses and crimes today ?

[jennyjuniper]

I like them both too,I think they make a lot of sense,I heard no lies.
I'm with you on this. It was the same with Enoch Powelæl. A lot of people called him names, but everything he said at the time has turned out to be true.

[y.winter]

I agree with Katie tbh. There's a lot of naiveness and tiptoeing around this subject because it can easily be interpreted as some sort of racism.
Some streets in London and other cities around Europe have become truly terrifying to walk in.
Yes to multiculturalism, not at any price.
As much as I'm divided when it comes to brexit, in that aspect I think it would be better for the future of GB. And I'm saying it as someone who wishes to live there and it only makes it more complicated for me.

[arista]

At least some Brits are not afraid to speak their minds nor should they be.


Yes Farage saying what he stated
on his Live LBC show , last night.


His Points about New Labour
are Very Valid

[arista]

Why does Hopkins look 65?


Yes trying to be Diplomatic Looking
at the age of 42.
Blame her LBC boss

[Beso]

Saw a tweet from some left wing arsehole last night using the nationalities of the dead and injured as a means for championing how magnificently diverse the uks multiculturalism is.

[ebandit]

Why does Hopkins look 65?

may the debate continue...........................

........for all her faults katie is a mature woman who has no need to

pretend otherwise

Mark L

[Kazanne]

I'm with you on this. It was the same with Enoch Powelæl. A lot of people called him names, but everything he said at the time has turned out to be true.

My dad was a big follower of Enoch Powel,so I have heard something about him and his famous rivers of blood speech, it really looks like people are trying so hard to be 'nice and welcoming' and missing the point entirely,:wavey:

[Kazanne]

Why does Hopkins look 65?

Maybe because she has had a major operation,and what has that to do with this thread :shrug:

[MTVN]

Saw a tweet from some left wing arsehole last night using the nationalities of the dead and injured as a means for championing how magnificently diverse the uks multiculturalism is.

Yeah that was the New Statesman editor

844863098171277313

Of course it's not like the attack was in a major tourist location or anything :umm2:

[Livia]

You have to understand something. In the USA both of these people are well respected (and liked). This gives you a glimpse of how people over here perceive this, if anyone is curious.

My fiance is American. He'd never heard of Katie Hopkins before I pointed her out to him.

[Niamh.]

My fiance is American. He'd never heard of Katie Hopkins before I pointed her out to him.

Why did you go and do that? :laugh:

[Liberty4eva]

My fiance is American. He'd never heard of Katie Hopkins before I pointed her out to him.

She's definitely getting more attention. Yesterday she was on the Michael Savage radio show who gets millions of listeners.

[Livia]

She's definitely getting more attention. Yesterday she was on the Michael Savage radio show who gets millions of listeners.

Over 300 million people live in the USA. I bet the vast majority have never heard of her and never will.

[MB.]

"A lot of Brits" does not equal "two of our country's biggest living jokes" and never will

(but considering how keen you were to point out that America's political affairs have absolutely nothing to do with us Brits and that we should stay out of it, you seem awfully happy to tell us to listen to a man who has never been elected to parliament and a woman who lost in a popularity contest to Katie Price)

[Niamh.]

"A lot of Brits" does not equal "two of our country's biggest living jokes" and never will

(but considering how keen you were to point out that America's political affairs have absolutely nothing to do with us Brits and that we should stay out of it, you seem awfully happy to tell us to listen to a man who has never been elected to parliament and a woman who lost in a popularity contest to Katie Price)

:hehe:

[user104658]

She's definitely getting more attention. Yesterday she was on the Michael Savage radio show who gets millions of listeners.

:omgno:

:cheer2: If Katie Hopkins becomes big in the US, maybe she'll move there and we won't have to deal with her any more!

[Niamh.]

:omgno:

:cheer2: If Katie Hopkins becomes big in the US, maybe she'll move there and we won't have to deal with her any more!

Her and Trump would get on like a house on fire tbf

[Livia]

:omgno:

:cheer2: If Katie Hopkins becomes big in the US, maybe she'll move there and we won't have to deal with her any more!

http://cdn.xl.thumbs.canstockphoto.com/canstock37673914.jpg

[user104658]

Her and Trump would get on like a house on fire tbf

http://i.imgur.com/h5n5CXr.jpg

I made / posted this a while ago, I must have predicted this :joker:

[Niamh.]

:laugh2:

[Northern Monkey]

http://i.imgur.com/h5n5CXr.jpg

I made / posted this a while ago, I must have predicted this :joker::joker:

[Tom4784]

Her and Trump would get on like a house on fire tbf

Katie Hopkins to be the new Monica Lewinsky?

[Niamh.]

Katie Hopkins to be the new Monica Lewinsky?

ew gross :conf2:

[user104658]

Katie Hopkins to be the new Monica Lewinsky?
Impossible. Katie Hopkins can't stop her lips from flapping for long enough to gobble the D. She would be mumbling racist soundbites the entire time. Although... Would Trump enjoy that? :think:

[user104658]

"So Russia isn't the only mother you want relations with gobble gobble I'm glad to see that a wall isn't the only thing you can erect slurp slurp I do enjoy a nice white penis chomp drool"

[Beso]

Yeah that was the New Statesman editor

844863098171277313

Of course it's not like the attack was in a major tourist location or anything :umm2:


loved a reply that stated that the attackers are NEVER as diverse culturally.:smug:

[Jamie89]

"So Russia isn't the only mother you want relations with gobble gobble I'm glad to see that a wall isn't the only thing you can erect slurp slurp I do enjoy a nice white penis chomp drool"

Omfg :joker: :omgno:

[DemolitionRed]

There is an online petition involved; to posthumously award PC Keith Palmer a George Cross. What a great way to honour a brave Police Officer.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/en-gb/942/357/773/posthumously-award-the-george-cross-to-pc-keith-palmer/?taf_id=34900496&cid=fb_na

[DemolitionRed]

She's definitely getting more attention. Yesterday she was on the Michael Savage radio show who gets millions of listeners.

Farage and Hopkins are not representative of the British population. They are extremist trolls who are widely loathed here.

[Alf]

Go on Katie, tell it, like it is I've never understood that saying, but some people find a meaning in it

You go! Girlfriend

[Kazanne]

"So Russia isn't the only mother you want relations with gobble gobble I'm glad to see that a wall isn't the only thing you can erect slurp slurp I do enjoy a nice white penis chomp drool"

Disgusting ,worse than anything I've heard HER say.

[Brillopad]

Farage and Hopkins are not representative of the British population. They are extremist trolls who are widely loathed here.

Brexit suggests differently.

[Kizzy]

Saw a tweet from some left wing arsehole last night using the nationalities of the dead and injured as a means for championing how magnificently diverse the uks multiculturalism is.

Didn't May do that too in parliament?

[Kizzy]

Farage and Hopkins are not representative of the British population. They are extremist trolls who are widely loathed here.

I second that, they are walking parodies, I'm saddened that some Americans will be given the impression that their mocking, scoffing tones are testament to the British... Personally I feel we have so much more heart and depth than these two.

[DemolitionRed]

Brexit suggests differently.

You're kidding right? I voted for Brexit, my husband voted for Brexit and neither of us think there is a problem with immigration. If I'd voted for Brexit because I was naive enough to think immigration would be eased, I'd be looking pretty foolish ten years down the line from now.

Believe it or not, a lot of politically minded intelligent folk voted for Brexit and the grotesque rantings of Farage and Hopkins had nothing to do with it.

[Kizzy]

You're kidding right? I voted for Brexit, my husband voted for Brexit and neither of us think there is a problem with immigration. If I'd voted for Brexit because I was naive enough to think immigration would be eased, I'd be looking pretty foolish ten years down the line from now.

Believe it or not, a lot of politically minded intelligent folk voted for Brexit and the grotesque rantings of Farage and Hopkins had nothing to do with it.

I don't doubt you did for good and just reasons, although with the conservatives in charge imo that was not a wise move.
I fear they orchestrated the entire thing to rid us of regulations and rights.
It's not a popular theory, but it's mine

[Brillopad]

You're kidding right? I voted for Brexit, my husband voted for Brexit and neither of us think there is a problem with immigration. If I'd voted for Brexit because I was naive enough to think immigration would be eased, I'd be looking pretty foolish ten years down the line from now.

Believe it or not, a lot of politically minded intelligent folk voted for Brexit and the grotesque rantings of Farage and Hopkins had nothing to do with it.

Believe it or not a lot of politically-minded, intelligent folk voted for Brexit because they did see a problem with immigration, most are aware of that, and the grotesque rantings of many Muslims had everything to do with it.

I guess we will see in ten years won't we.

[user104658]

I would think (hope) that even most of those who did vote because of immigration wouldn't agree with the trash that comes out of Hopkins' beak. You don't have to support her just because she's on "team brexit", you know.

[Tozzie]

I can't stand Katie Hopkins, however, this is the one occasion where I actually agree with what she said. She has said what many people are thinking but are too afraid to for fear of offending

[Rob!]

A lot = 2
Influential = Nigel Farage and Katie Hopkins.


K.

[MB.]

A lot = 2

That's Trump's education system for ya

[Marsh.]

I can't stand Katie Hopkins, however, this is the one occasion where I actually agree with what she said. She has said what many people are thinking but are too afraid to for fear of offending
What exactly did she say that was true?

[MB.]

She has said what many people are thinking

She said that she was a massive arsewipe? Props to her!

[DemolitionRed]

I don't doubt you did for good and just reasons, although with the conservatives in charge imo that was not a wise move.
I fear they orchestrated the entire thing to rid us of regulations and rights.
It's not a popular theory, but it's mine

I see the EU as the core of neoliberal politics and because Britain is the essence of what the EU was founded on, for too long it hasn't had to answer for its own poor politics. Nobody was questioning 'austerity' and as you and I both know Kizzy, 'austerity is a big con. Without the EU, we can at last hold the Tory government to account. Already the Lords are taking more notice of public opinion and May is, at least so far, treading very carefully.

Cameron was the leading force behind the transatlantic trade deals and without him behind that driving wheel, those deals quickly fell under a bus.

As for immigrants, what scapegoaters fail to consider is the £billions brought into this economy from immigration alone... without immigrants, we would become both insular and poorer. What people don't get is, if we want to
reduce migrant labour, we need to also reduce our need for migrant labour. But anyway, the only immigrants affected by Brexit are those who are members of the European Union. It makes not a scrap of difference to the Africans, Orientals, Arabs or Middle Easterns...for them it will be a visa application as usual. Having worked with immigrants from people outside of the EU, I have a full understanding of the tough process these immigrants have to go through if they want to live and work in the UK. That won't change. We have never had open borders for anyone outside the EU and its doubtful we ever will.

[Brillopad]

A lot = 2
Influential = Nigel Farage and Katie Hopkins.


K.

Some seem very rattled by 2 people.

[Kizzy]

I see the EU as the core of neoliberal politics and because Britain is the essence of what the EU was founded on, for too long it hasn't had to answer for its own poor politics. Nobody was questioning 'austerity' and as you and I both know Kizzy, 'austerity is a big con. Without the EU, we can at last hold the Tory government to account. Already the Lords are taking more notice of public opinion and May is, at least so far, treading very carefully.

Cameron was the leading force behind the transatlantic trade deals and without him behind that driving wheel, those deals quickly fell under a bus.

As for immigrants, what scapegoaters fail to consider is the £billions brought into this economy from immigration alone... without immigrants, we would become both insular and poorer. What people don't get is, if we want to
reduce migrant labour, we need to also reduce our need for migrant labour. But anyway, the only immigrants affected by Brexit are those who are members of the European Union. It makes not a scrap of difference to the Africans, Orientals, Arabs or Middle Easterns...for them it will be a visa application as usual. Having worked with immigrants from people outside of the EU, I have a full understanding of the tough process these immigrants have to go through if they want to live and work in the UK. That won't change. We have never had open borders for anyone outside the EU and its doubtful we ever will.

Oh there's no doubt austerity is a myth, I'm confused as to why if cameron wanted TTIP he advocated remain?
Thing is too if we leave the EU with no deal and have to take a seat in the WTO is that not signing up for TTIP with not only the EU but the world?...

We had issue with the free movement attatched to the EU, what if we are forced to trade with free movement from other countries? Ones we don't share religions, cultures, customs or basic human rights with?

I really don't think there has been enough forward thinking.

[Withano]

Believe it or not a lot of politically-minded, intelligent folk voted for Brexit because they did see a problem with immigration, most are aware of that, and the grotesque rantings of many Muslims had everything to do with it.

I guess we will see in ten years won't we.

source?

[DemolitionRed]

Oh there's no doubt austerity is a myth, I'm confused as to why if cameron wanted TTIP he advocated remain?

Europe or should I say, European governments were as much for this trade deal as Cameron. It was only France who was still against carving up the free market but this proposed deal was quickly gaining prominence within our EU neoliberal theocracy…. This was an EU-US trade deal and regardless of public apposition, past experience proves there was nothing we could do about what the EU were scheming under the cover of darkness.

Thing is too if we leave the EU with no deal and have to take a seat in the WTO is that not signing up for TTIP with not only the EU but the world?...


New and complex deals have to be made and adjusted to suit everyone but we don't want TTIP or its ugly sister, the CETA Treaty. These deals were the lubricant needed to finalize the selling off British assets like the NHS. People claim, if it wasn't for Trump we would of gone ahead regardless but a stand alone Britain would have had enormous difficulty securing itself in such massive trade deal because of its size and complexities.

For too long, our governments have been selling off anything that isn't nailed down.


We had issue with the free movement attatched to the EU, what if we are forced to trade with free movement from other countries? Ones we don't share religions, cultures, customs or basic human rights with?

I really don't think there has been enough forward thinking.

I think a lot of people are confused re-free movement. Europeans have always brought vast wealth into Britain and its not the Europeans who's traditions and way of life don't work in harmony with ours... (according to some). I like free movement within our European borders but then I've used those open borders to my own advantage too. I have though, had my identity/visa and right of travel heavily scrutinized when visiting lands outside the EU; just as those outside the EU have when visiting Britain

Sorry, I'm wandering away from your question. I don't believe free movement for trade deals outside of Europe will happen anytime soon. I would hate to think Americans could just walk in on an ID card!! We heavily rely on immigration, we always will and so regardless of what people believe, little will change on that score.

[Cherie]

I don't doubt you did for good and just reasons, although with the conservatives in charge imo that was not a wise move.
I fear they orchestrated the entire thing to rid us of regulations and rights.
It's not a popular theory, but it's mine

Unlikely, if Boris had hopped aboard the remain bus the UK wouldn't be brexiting, the Torys were as astounded as anyone by the result, at any rate the Torys won't be in power for ever so regulations and rights removed can be reinstated by the next government if they do remove any, that's if we do ever see a credible shadow party to challenge the Torys at the next election :idc:

[Kizzy]

Unlikely, if Boris had hopped aboard the remain bus the UK wouldn't be brexiting, the Torys were as astounded as anyone by the result, at any rate the Torys won't be in power for ever so regulations and rights removed can be reinstated by the next government if they do remove any, that's if we do ever see a credible shadow party to challenge the Torys at the next election :idc:

You'll have to hope for a splinter group, they would no doubt have your full support?

[Cherie]

You'll have to hope for a splinter group, they would no doubt have your full support?

:joker: anything would be better than your lot at the moment

[Tozzie]

Enoch Powell was a very wise man, I wish the people had listened to him. I've said it before and I'll say it again Multiculturalism was and is never going to work, sad but true. Maybe off topic a bit but at one time the Spanish welcomed the Brits who went to live in their country but now the young people of Spain are resenting the Brits being there. I lived in Spain for 2 years and saw how the Brits had their own large communities, few chose to live among the Spanish. If we all lived in our own countries there wouldn't be half as much fighting and hatred that goes on but of course we all know people move to different countries to try better their lives and some people are fleeing their own countries to get away from danger. What is the answer? I have no idea. I wish we could all live side by side in peace as people but religious beliefs gets in the way of peace. Quite ridiculous really considering God is supposed to be about peace.

[Tozzie]

What exactly did she say that was true?

The truth, if you listen to her but some people with closed minds and ears will choose not to hear what she is saying

[user104658]

The truth, if you listen to her but some people with closed minds and ears will choose not to hear what she is saying

It's difficult to understand what she's saying because she says all of it with such a massive sneer, that it just comes out as a hideous drone.

[DemolitionRed]

Why would anyone want to listen to Hopkins. I'm all for uncensored speech but when all she has to offer is racism, there's no point taking any notice of her. This vile woman has made her fortune, for at least a good nine years, trolling newspaper columns with unbridled bigotry and we are supposed to take notice of what she has to say?!?

[Tom4784]

The truth, if you listen to her but some people with closed minds and ears will choose not to hear what she is saying

She says anything that will get her noticed, bigoted people like her because she makes them feel validated and the controversy from the hate she generates from everyone else guarantees she'll remain in the spotlight and making money while she's at it.

She doesn't speak truth, she tells you what you want to hear and anything that can get her attention.

[Niamh.]

Why would anyone want to listen to Hopkins. I'm all for uncensored speech but when all she has to offer is racism, there's no point taking any notice of her. This vile woman has made her fortune, for at least a good nine years, trolling newspaper columns with unbridled bigotry and we are supposed to take notice of what she has to say?!?
Because racism seems to be back in fashion lately

[Marsh.]

The truth, if you listen to her but some people with closed minds and ears will choose not to hear what she is saying
Why have you ignored my question?
I asked what did she say that was true?

[Kazanne]

Why have you ignored my question?
I asked what did she say that was true?

Well don't mean to butt in here,but she did say people pretend they are not scared,but in truth they are,that IS the truth,whether it is justified or not,I fear for my kids in the future and wonder what they will have to live through,say if Sharia law ever got hold,how would my daughter fare ? people may say it will never happen,but how many times has that been said only to leave us with egg on our face,I am all for multi culturism,but I am against people coming here and trying to force their way of living on us ,and take away ours,I don't care what colour they are,but some peoples cultures are far from how I want to live and want my kids to live,so yes she is right,people can stand up and say we will never be beaten and we are not scared,get behind closed doors a lot of people are both.:wavey: Hope you are well Marsh

[Brillopad]

Why have you ignored my question?
I asked what did she say that was true?

Amongst other things I believe she said that instead of escaping their issues by coming to the West they simply bring their problems and religious hatreds for each other here creating ghettos and tensions on British streets.

That is true, we see it on our streets. What the hell is the point of them coming here if they are going to bring all that c**p with them. We don't want or need it here.

[DemolitionRed]

Because racism seems to be back in fashion lately

And its starting to feel, at least on here, like its taking over.

[user104658]

Well don't mean to butt in here,but she did say people pretend they are not scared,but in truth they are,that IS the truth,whether it is justified or not,I fear for my kids in the future and wonder what they will have to live through,say if Sharia law ever got hold,how would my daughter fare ? people may say it will never happen,but how many times has that been said only to leave us with egg on our face,I am all for multi culturism,but I am against people coming here and trying to force their way of living on us ,and take away ours,I don't care what colour they are,but some peoples cultures are far from how I want to live and want my kids to live,so yes she is right,people can stand up and say we will never be beaten and we are not scared,get behind closed doors a lot of people are both.:wavey: Hope you are well Marsh
How do you get through the day if one of your worries for your kids is that they might have to live with sharia law?? There are hundreds, probably thousands, of far more realistic worries for things they might face in the future :umm2:. Why pile more (honestly) totally unrealistic things on top?

[Tozzie]

She said that she was a massive arsewipe? Props to her!

are you stalking me? :laugh:

[Tozzie]

How do you get through the day if one of your worries for your kids is that they might have to live with sharia law?? There are hundreds, probably thousands, of far more realistic worries for things they might face in the future :umm2:. Why pile more (honestly) totally unrealistic things on top?

It's not unrealistic, Sharia law is alive and well in Britain already. Yes there are many other worries to worry about but some don't want the added worry of Sharia Law. You may, some don't

[Cherie]

Because racism seems to be back in fashion lately


What does it feel like in Ireland now?


And its starting to feel, at least on here, like its taking over.

I see a range of views :shrug:

[DemolitionRed]

It's not unrealistic, Sharia law is alive and well in Britain already. Yes there are many other worries to worry about but some don't want the added worry of Sharia Law. You may, some don't

And why shouldn't it be? All Sharia Law can deal with in Britain is civil disputes and business. Sharia courts can't drag anyone in off the streets and can only be used if all parties agree.

Jewish courts (Beth Din) are the same and are in daily use in Britain, and have been for centuries.

[Tozzie]

And why shouldn't it be? All Sharia Law can deal with in Britain is civil disputes and business. Sharia courts can't drag anyone in off the streets and can only be used if all parties agree.

Jewish courts (Beth Din) are the same and are in daily use in Britain, and have been for centuries.

I can see Sharia laws being able to deal with other avenues other than civil disputes and business further down the line. I don't want Sharia law ruling my country, which one day I feel it will. If this makes me be deemed as racist then so be it. I am not alone in my thinking 3680

[Alf]

I can see Sharia laws being able to deal with other avenues other than civil disputes and business further down the line. I don't want Sharia law ruling my country, which one day I feel it will. If this makes me be deemed as racist then so be it. I am not alone in my thinking 3680No it doesn't make you a racist, because Islam isn't a race, and it has followers of all colours of skin.

Being called a racist by a looney leftie, has no meaning. It's just their answer to everything, because they don't have any other answer.

[Tom4784]

It's not unrealistic, Sharia law is alive and well in Britain already. Yes there are many other worries to worry about but some don't want the added worry of Sharia Law. You may, some don't

It IS unrealistic. Sharia Law is not in effect in the UK, nobody can force you or anyone else to follow it.

The whole idea that muslims are gonna 'take over' is ignorant. There's three main ways a minority can become a majority and none of them are realistic when it comes to the UK.

The first is a military coup of power, that's not going to happen since there isn't much of a Muslim presence in the Army to begin with, never mind one with an extremist mindset. Terrorist organisations will never be able to organise and arm a big enough force to mount an attack that could wrest power from the government. IS has to claim responsibility for any and all attacks to maintain the illusion that they have an international presence.

The second is a political coup which, given the attitude towards Sadiq Khan based on the fact that he is a muslim, it isn't likely that someone with terrorist ties and extremist views could ever get close enough given that all Muslims are viewed with suspicion. Plus they'd need support to make it stick and the vast majority of the population (including muslims) aren't wouldn't agree to it.

The last is the idea that extremist Muslims will gain a majority by excessive breeding, this is particularly stupid given that there are only 3 million Muslims in the UK in comparison to the 81 million people of other faiths and beliefs. Cut the 3 million number down to match the fact that extremists are a minority within the Muslim community and you're looking at, at most, a few thousand people (if you're being generous with numbers) trying to outbreed millions upon millions of people. It's not going to happen.

The idea of an Islam takeover is one fuelled by ignorance and hysteria rather than an actual possibility.

[Tom4784]

I can see Sharia laws being able to deal with other avenues other than civil disputes and business further down the line. I don't want Sharia law ruling my country, which one day I feel it will. If this makes me be deemed as racist then so be it. I am not alone in my thinking 3680

Do you understand how laws come into being? They are voted in, they don't just pop into existence.

Sharia Law would have to go through the different houses of Parliament and succeed in several votes before it became law and public perception would play a massive role in it's potential to succeed. No political party would champion it and it wouldn't get any support thus making it unlikely to ever become law.

[Tozzie]

It IS unrealistic. Sharia Law is not in effect in the UK, nobody can force you or anyone else to follow it.

The whole idea that muslims are gonna 'take over' is ignorant. There's three main ways a minority can become a majority and none of them are realistic when it comes to the UK.

It's not going to happen.

The idea of an Islam takeover is one fuelled by ignorance and hysteria rather than an actual possibility.

I live in a very heavily populated muslim area, I am fast becoming a minority. I have to say though, I do hope you are right in what you say because I like your positivity. I guess only time will tell.

[Alf]

And its starting to feel, at least on here, like its taking over.Where is the racism on this forum? And why aren't the mods doing anything about it?

Because it's all in your head, it's like you want it to be true.

The only people who talk about race, is the lefties. Everyone else is just waiting for them to stop talking about it, so we can move on.

[DemolitionRed]

I can see Sharia laws being able to deal with other avenues other than civil disputes and business further down the line. I don't want Sharia law ruling my country, which one day I feel it will. If this makes me be deemed as racist then so be it. I am not alone in my thinking 3680

It doesn't make you racist, it just makes you lack understanding as to why both Jews and Muslims have their own civil law and why it can't and won't ever become more than that.

[Tom4784]

I live in a very heavily populated muslim area, I am fast becoming a minority. I have to say though, I do hope you are right in what you say because I like your positivity. I guess only time will tell.

It's not positivity, it's common sense and you aren't becoming a minority, you'll never be a minority and you shouldn't fear Muslims, no group of people have suffered more loss at the hands of 'islamic' terrorists have suffered than Muslims themselves.

If you're going to worry about extremists taking over then you may as well fear the moon crashing into us because they both have the same likelihood of happening.

[Northern Monkey]

Yawn at the ever present 'R word' being thrown about.It was the same with the brexit debate.
Racists are a very small minority.Most of us have grown up and gone to school with and got along fine with people of all races.
It is not racist to be against a backwards and still primitive religion or have it take over large sections of our cities.Which it is and that is undeniable.I can walk to more than one of these areas from my front door within fifteen minutes.There are areas where it is inadvisable for white people to walk through.This is not fantasy,This is the cold hard truth.Why should we have accept this and remain silent or be called racist?

[Brillopad]

Yawn at the ever present 'R word' being thrown about.It was the same with the brexit debate.
Racists are a very small minority.Most of us have grown up and gone to school with and got along fine with people of all races.
It is not racist to be against a backwards and still primitive religion or have it take over large sections of our cities.Which it is and that is undeniable.I can walk to more than one of these areas from my front door within fifteen minutes.There are areas where it is inadvisable for white people to walk through.This is not fantasy,This is the cold hard truth.Why should we have accept this and remain silent or be called racist?

The constant use of that word is an intimidation tactic and, at the end of the day, says more about the person throwing it around than those they attempt to label.

It is boring but what it won't do is shut down opinions - try as they might. :hee:

[Tom4784]

The constant use of that word is an intimidation tactic and, at the end of the day, says more about the person throwing it around than those they attempt to label.

It is boring but what it won't do it shut down opinions try as they might. :hee:

An intimidation tactic? Why would it be intimidating?

You've accused me of sexism repeatedly and I've never been intimidated by it because I'm not sexist and the suggestion that I am is ridiculous. If someone accuses you of something that isn't true then stand your ground and explain why they are wrong.

I could only imagine someone feeling intimidated by being called a racist if it's true.

[Brillopad]

An intimidation tactic? Why would it be intimidating?

You've accused me of sexism repeatedly and I've never been intimidated by it because I'm not sexist and the suggestion that I am is ridiculous. If someone accuses you of something that isn't true then stand your ground and explain why they are wrong.

I could only imagine someone feeling intimidated by being called a racist if it's true.

Did I say it worked - I was clearly stating the opposite. It was the intention of those using it I was clearly referring to.

[Tozzie]

It's not positivity, it's common sense and you aren't becoming a minority, you'll never be a minority and you shouldn't fear Muslims, no group of people have suffered more loss at the hands of 'islamic' terrorists have suffered than Muslims themselves.

If you're going to worry about extremists taking over then you may as well fear the moon crashing into us because they both have the same likelihood of happening.

The demographics of the area I live in The religious make up of xxxxxxxx is 46.7% Muslim, 33.5% Christian, 13.0% No religion, 0.3% Sikh, 0.2% Hindu, 0.1% Buddhist. I am in the minority of where I live. I live in an area of West Yorkshire.

Isis are recruiting daily, more and more becoming extremists, none of us can see into the future, we can all only speculate.

[DemolitionRed]

The demographics of the area I live in The religious make up of xxxxxxxx is 46.7% Muslim, 33.5% Christian, 13.0% No religion, 0.3% Sikh, 0.2% Hindu, 0.1% Buddhist. I am in the minority of where I live. I live in an area of West Yorkshire.

Isis are recruiting daily, more and more becoming extremists, none of us can see into the future, we can all only speculate.

Are you saying you are Buddhist?

[Tozzie]

Are you saying you are Buddhist?

Yes, now leave me alone whilst I meditate

[Northern Monkey]

The constant use of that word is an intimidation tactic and, at the end of the day, says more about the person throwing it around than those they attempt to label.

It is boring but what it won't do is shut down opinions - try as they might. :hee:Yep and it is ironic that the only people i've ever been racially abused by were muslims.Never experienced it from any other groups.

[Brillopad]

Yes, now leave me alone whilst I meditate

You will probably need to meditate quite often if you come on here regularly. :hee:

[Cherie]

Where is the racism on this forum? And why aren't the mods doing anything about it?

Because it's all in your head, it's like you want it to be true.

The only people who talk about race, is the lefties. Everyone else is just waiting for them to stop talking about it, so we can move on.

this :laugh: I made a thread about a Hungarian Village which ended up in a blog by the same poster as being anti Muslim when it was anything but

[user104658]

Racism doesn't actually exist. There is no such thing as racism. Also, everyone is actually nice all of the time. Another -ism that doesn't exist is sarcism. So there's that.

[Tom4784]

The demographics of the area I live in The religious make up of xxxxxxxx is 46.7% Muslim, 33.5% Christian, 13.0% No religion, 0.3% Sikh, 0.2% Hindu, 0.1% Buddhist. I am in the minority of where I live. I live in an area of West Yorkshire.

Isis are recruiting daily, more and more becoming extremists, none of us can see into the future, we can all only speculate.

I find those stats a bit difficult to believe, especially in a Yorkshire area.

If you wish to fear the impossible then you are free to do so, it doesn't make it any more likely of happening. Like I said before, it's impossible for an extremist section of Islam to take hold in the UK and become a majority and nothing is going to change that. When you understand how population growth. government and the process of changing legislation, laws and political systems work you'll see that there's nothing to fear.

As I said before, if you think you are at any risk of becoming a minority and somehow being forced into Islam by extremists then you may as well check the moon every night to see if it's fallen out of the sky because the odds of those events happening are pretty much the same.

Did I say it worked - I was clearly stating the opposite. It was the intention of those using it I was clearly referring to.

So whenever you accuse me of sexism you're trying to intimidate me into silence?

[Brillopad]

I find those stats a bit difficult to believe, especially in a Yorkshire area.

If you wish to fear the impossible then you are free to do so, it doesn't make it any more likely of happening. Like I said before, it's impossible for an extremist section of Islam to take hold in the UK and become a majority and nothing is going to change that. When you understand how population growth. government and the process of changing legislation, laws and political systems work you'll see that there's nothing to fear.

As I said before, if you think you are at any risk of becoming a minority and somehow being forced into Islam by extremists then you may as well check the moon every night to see if it's fallen out of the sky because the odds of those events happening are pretty much the same.



So whenever you accuse me of sexism you're trying to intimidate me into silence?

It is quite a reasonable comment when you refer to female posters as dear, love etc when in disagreement with them.

Most on here accusesd of racism have only expressed concerns about Islam and its practices. That has nothing to do with race for a start. Religion is not a race.

[Northern Monkey]

Not a Hopkins fan but she has some good points here

gpcAIHQbLqk

[Tom4784]

'BREAKING : Katie Hopkins SAVAGES Britain's Pathetic Liberals'

[DemolitionRed]

Yes, now leave me alone whilst I meditate

:joker:

[Cherie]

Not a Hopkins fan but she has some good points here

gpcAIHQbLqk

I never thought I would agree with Hopkins on anything, but the "reclaiming the bridge" stuff was very cringey and totally inappropriate given people had died there just a day earlier, people taking selfies and shouting we are not afraid, it was all a bit tasteless really.

[Cherie]

It's not positivity, it's common sense and you aren't becoming a minority, you'll never be a minority and you shouldn't fear Muslims, no group of people have suffered more loss at the hands of 'islamic' terrorists have suffered than Muslims themselves.

If you're going to worry about extremists taking over then you may as well fear the moon crashing into us because they both have the same likelihood of happening.

She has just told you that in the area she lives she is in the minority, I understand what she is saying I live in a similar area the difference is I have always lived in multicultural boroughs in London so I am perfectly used to it, if however I returned to Ireland and found the area I grew up was now completely changed culturally I probably would have an issue with that!! I think for some of the older generations they have seen so much change in their life time it is difficult to comes to terms with it. If you have grown up with it as my kids have they have no issues whatsoever but I have have a 85 year old neighbour who remembers when the area was different and has a different view, that's not racism that is someone who has seen a complete change in their lifetime and is not happy at the loss of her community and neighbourhood.

[Niamh.]

She has just told you that in the area she lives she is in the minority, I understand what she is saying I live in a similar area the difference is I have always lived in multicultural boroughs in London so I am perfectly used to it, if however I returned to Ireland and found the area I grew up was now completely changed culturally I probably would have an issue with that!! I think for some of the older generations they have seen so much change in their life time it is difficult to comes to terms with it. If you have grown up with it as my kids have they have no issues whatsoever but I have have a 85 year old neighbour who remembers when the area was different and has a different view, that's not racism that is someone who has seen a complete change in their lifetime and is not happy at the loss of her community and neighbourhood.

I can understand that but that's just life I guess, things change and evolve. The sense of community is less here than it was when I was younger too but that's not down to different cultures moving into areas it's just the way the world has moved. You asked earlier what it was like over here. I guess it's different from England because we don't have as much of areas being taken over by a certain group/groups, not that I've noticed anyway. It seems to me that attitudes towards immigrants are harsher over in Britain. Of course Ireland probably isn't high on the list as a target for ISIS either so maybe we're less worried? I don't know really

[Cherie]

I can understand that but that's just life I guess, things change and evolve. The sense of community is less here than it was when I was younger too but that's not down to different cultures moving into areas it's just the way the world has moved. You asked earlier what it was like over here. I guess it's different from England because we don't have as much of areas being taken over by a certain group/groups, not that I've noticed anyway. It seems to me that attitudes towards immigrants are harsher over in Britain. Of course Ireland probably isn't high on the list as a target for ISIS either so maybe we're less worried? I don't know really


Not just in relation to ISIS but to immigration in general. I asked because I found attitudes to people coming to work in Ireland as not as welcoming as they might be, I think it was all great during the Celtic Tiger but once that bubble burst there seemed to be a lot of anti Polish sentiment...I remember sitting in a hospital in Cork when my Mum was unwell and the cleaner was having a right moan about Polish people, when I said Ireland has been exporting people for years and it was their turn to give something back she looked quite taken aback its a sentiment I heard a few times on visits, again that is not everyone, just like here in the UK, I am not sure how any major town in Ireland would react to Irish people being in the minority either :laugh:

[DemolitionRed]

There's a picture going around Facebook, of the damage done to London during the IRA bombing. It says something like, 'we didn't can all Irish or Catholic folks after this, and we're not going to do it now'. Makes perfect sense to me.

[Cherie]

There's a picture going around Facebook, of the damage done to London during the IRA bombing. It says something like, 'we didn't can all Irish or Catholic folks after this, and we're not going to do it now'. Makes perfect sense to me.

err....lots of people did and still do....

[Niamh.]

Not just in relation to ISIS but to immigration in general. I asked because I found attitudes to people coming to work in Ireland as not as welcoming as they might be, I think it was all great during the Celtic Tiger but once that bubble burst there seemed to be a lot of anti Polish sentiment...I remember sitting in a hospital in Cork when my Mum was unwell and the cleaner was having a right moan about Polish people, when I said Ireland has been exporting people for years and it was their turn to give something back she looked quite taken aback its a sentiment I heard a few times on visits, again that is not everyone, just like here in the UK, I am not sure how any major town in Ireland would react to Irish people being in the minority either :laugh:

I think that may have been during the very worst time of the recession, there are still quite a lot of Polish people here but I never hear anyone giving out about them (where as I did a bit just after the bubble burst) What I will say though is the Polish over here have really integrated well, it definitely makes things harder when whatever nationality it is don't do that but I think that can be contributed to on both sides, like we'll say african refugees that came over here, they would be all placed in areas together so we're contributing to making "ghettos" (for lack of a better word) and alienating them, as well as them choosing to stick together

[Niamh.]

There's a picture going around Facebook, of the damage done to London during the IRA bombing. It says something like, 'we didn't can all Irish or Catholic folks after this, and we're not going to do it now'. Makes perfect sense to me.

err....lots of people did and still do....

Yeah tbf that's not entirely true DR, even back in the late 90's when I was over in London I used to get some comments etc directed at me/being Irish so i can only imagine it was even worse back in the 70's/80's

I think people like to remember things a bit more rose tinted :laugh:

[Cherie]

Yeah tbf that's not entirely true DR, even back in the late 90's when I was over in London I used to get some comments etc directed at me/being Irish so i can only imagine it was even worse back in the 70's/80's

I think people like to remember things a bit more rose tinted :laugh:

I remember reading an article after 9/11 saying Muslims are the new Irish in Britain and its so true, people have forgotton how badly the Irish were treated during the Troubles, it's only in recent years the BNP took the Irish off their leafleting campaigns :laugh:

[Northern Monkey]

I can understand that but that's just life I guess, things change and evolve. The sense of community is less here than it was when I was younger too but that's not down to different cultures moving into areas it's just the way the world has moved. You asked earlier what it was like over here. I guess it's different from England because we don't have as much of areas being taken over by a certain group/groups, not that I've noticed anyway. It seems to me that attitudes towards immigrants are harsher over in Britain. Of course Ireland probably isn't high on the list as a target for ISIS either so maybe we're less worried? I don't know reallyWhat do you think the reason is for attitudes towards immigrants not being as harsh in Ireland?


I would suggest that it's because you're not experiencing it.If you got whole areas taken over i can guarantee attitudes would be exactly the same.

[Niamh.]

What do you think the reason is for attitudes towards immigrants not being as harsh in Ireland?


I would suggest that it's because you're not experiencing it.If you got whole areas taken over i can guarantee attitudes would be exactly the same.

Yeah maybe so NM that coupled with us probably not being overly worried about being a target for ISIS. I think maybe the only reason they would think about targeting Ireland is if they targeted Shannon Airport because the American air force use there to refuel

[Northern Monkey]

Yeah maybe so NM that coupled with us probably not being overly worried about being a target for ISIS. I think maybe the only reason they would think about targeting Ireland is if they targeted Shannon Airport because the American air force use there to refuel

Yeah i think their narrative for attacking Britain and France etc and the US is that we're at war with them in Syria/Iraq.I don't think Ireland is on their radar.

[Tom4784]

It is quite a reasonable comment when you refer to female posters as dear, love etc when in disagreement with them.

Most on here accusesd of racism have only expressed concerns about Islam and its practices. That has nothing to do with race for a start. Religion is not a race.

As it's been established before, I tend to call both male and female members dear. Ignoring the facts doesn't make them disappear, Brillo. Paiting me as sexist in an effort to repress what I have to say and then complain about being a called a racist because it 'intimidates' you makes you a gargantuan hypocrite, as usual.

If someone accuses you of racism then defend yourself just like I've cosntantly refuted your cheap accusations of sexism that ultimately cheapen your position as a 'feminist' (Still not convinced you are, you only seem to be a feminist when you can use it as a weapon and that's not feminism.).

[Tom4784]

She has just told you that in the area she lives she is in the minority, I understand what she is saying I live in a similar area the difference is I have always lived in multicultural boroughs in London so I am perfectly used to it, if however I returned to Ireland and found the area I grew up was now completely changed culturally I probably would have an issue with that!! I think for some of the older generations they have seen so much change in their life time it is difficult to comes to terms with it. If you have grown up with it as my kids have they have no issues whatsoever but I have have a 85 year old neighbour who remembers when the area was different and has a different view, that's not racism that is someone who has seen a complete change in their lifetime and is not happy at the loss of her community and neighbourhood.

It's her perception that she's a minority, it's not factual unless she can provide evidence. I doubt very much that a white christian/atheist/agnostic (whichever she is) person in Yorkshire is a minority.

Things change and grow, life is not stagnant and neither is culture. As an elderly woman who has seen so much change in her life, you'd think she'd understand that. It sounds like she remembers when the community was mostly white and dislikes the idea of diversity, her community hasn't been lost, it's evolved and I doubt it's changed that much that she's now a minority, that's just a fear that ignorant people have.

[Niamh.]

Yeah i think their narrative for attacking Britain and France etc and the US is that we're at war with them in Syria/Iraq.I don't think Ireland is on their radar.

Fingers crossed anyway :laugh:

[Cherie]

It's her perception that she's a minority, it's not factual unless she can provide evidence. I doubt very much that a white christian/atheist/agnostic (whichever she is) person in Yorkshire is a minority.

Things change and grow, life is not stagnant and neither is culture. As an elderly woman who has seen so much change in her life, you'd think she'd understand that. It sounds like she remembers when the community was mostly white and dislikes the idea of diversity, her community hasn't been lost, it's evolved and I doubt it's changed that much that she's now a minority, that's just a fear that ignorant people have.

So you don't believe she is in a minority even though she has produced percentages that clearly say she is :umm2: Its her town I think she knows what she is talking about.

[Brother Leon]

Find it absolutely cringeworthy when White people express fear of becoming a Minority in Western Countries. This country could just about accept an ethnic minority London Mayor, The majority of the country voted for Brexit and won with their main and only objective being to stop the bloody immigrants and yet we are suppose to take those fears seriously? My uncle on my Mother side is the absolute worst with it too.

[Tom4784]

So you don't believe she is in a minority even though she has produced percentages that clearly say she is :umm2: Its her town I think she knows what she is talking about.

She's produced numbers, I can do the same and it would be equally worthless without solid evidence to back it up.

It's her PERCEPTION of her town and not a reliable one either.

[Tom4784]

Find it absolutely cringeworthy when White people express fear of becoming a Minority in Western Countries. This country could just about accept an ethnic minority London Mayor, The majority of the country voted for Brexit and won with their main and only objective being to stop the bloody immigrants and yet we are suppose to take those fears seriously? My uncle on my Mother side is the absolute worst with it too.

Exactly, it's completely irrational.

[Cherie]

Find it absolutely cringeworthy when White people express fear of becoming a Minority in Western Countries. This country could just about accept an ethnic minority London Mayor, The majority of the country voted for Brexit and won with their main and only objective being to stop the bloody immigrants and yet we are suppose to take those fears seriously? My uncle on my Mother side is the absolute worst with it too.

You will find that a lot of minorities voted for Brexit, I've lost count of the number of immigrants who said they didn't want any more :joker: I work with an Polish lady who likes to live among white British people...you could not make this shiz up, but its out there.

[Cherie]

She's produced numbers, I can do the same and it would be equally worthless without solid evidence to back it up.

It's her PERCEPTION of her town and not a reliable one either.

I think it's more reliable than your PERCEPTION as you don't live there.

[Tom4784]

I think it's more reliable than your PERCEPTION as you don't live there.

A worthless comment that doesn't prove or disprove anything. I looked into the numbers myself and the only city I could find that were diverse in range was Bradford and even then Christians and white people were still the comfortable majority thus the perception that white/christian people are becoming a minority is a ridiculous one.

https://www.bradford.gov.uk/open-data/our-datasets/population/

[Tozzie]

It's her perception that she's a minority, it's not factual unless she can provide evidence. I doubt very much that a white christian/atheist/agnostic (whichever she is) person in Yorkshire is a minority.

Things change and grow, life is not stagnant and neither is culture. As an elderly woman who has seen so much change in her life, you'd think she'd understand that. It sounds like she remembers when the community was mostly white and dislikes the idea of diversity, her community hasn't been lost, it's evolved and I doubt it's changed that much that she's now a minority, that's just a fear that ignorant people have.

It is my perception and the perception of many many people in this town and neighbouring towns I live in. Yes I do remember how life was in years gone by, I do not like the idea of the diversity when I am driving through a town, stop and ask for directions to be met with contempt. To go shopping and find myself feeling like a stranger in my own country. The town which once people came for miles on coachloads to visit the market is now a filthy town and this saddens me. Please don't patronise me and be condescending, you may be more intelligent than me but that doesn't make you a better person than me. The country today makes me and many many others sad.

[Cherie]

A worthless comment that doesn't prove or disprove anything. I looked into the numbers myself and the only city I could find that were diverse in range was Bradford and even then Christians and white people were still the comfortable majority thus the perception that white/christian people are becoming a minority is a ridiculous one.

https://www.bradford.gov.uk/open-data/our-datasets/population/

Looking at figures from the comfort of a PC and living in an area aren't quite the same thing are they? Tozzie has produced figureswhich you claim are inaccurate, and why are you quoting Bradford figures to me when we are not speaking about Bradford.

[Cherie]

It is my perception and the perception of many many people in this town and neighbouring towns I live in. Yes I do remember how life was in years gone by, I do not like the idea of the diversity when I am driving through a town, stop and ask for directions to be met with contempt. To go shopping and find myself feeling like a stranger in my own country. The town which once people came for miles on coachloads to visit the market is now a filthy town and this saddens me. Please don't patronise me and be condescending, you may be more intelligent than me but that doesn't make you a better person than me. The country today makes me and many many others sad.


Having an aggressive tone is not an indicator of intelligence in my book Tozzie :laugh:

[Tozzie]

Looking at figures from the comfort of a PC and living in an area aren't quite the same thing are they? Tozzie has produced figureswhich you claim are inaccurate, and why are you quoting Bradford figures to me when we are not speaking about Bradford.

You are right Cherie, I don't live in Bradford

[Tom4784]

Looking at figures from the comfort of a PC and living in an area aren't quite the same thing are they? Tozzie has produced figureswhich you claim are inaccurate, and why are you quoting Bradford figures to me when we are not speaking about Bradford.

Because I was looking at the various censuses from different parts of Yorkshire and Bradford's was the only really diverse one I could find and even then the majority is still White/Christian, since that's the case then Tozzie's claims of feeling like a minority aren't likely true given that I've not come across one census that paints white/christian people as a minority. If you read my previous post then you'd have understood that.

Tozzie provided figures without a source, I produced figures that were backed up by a source. The official figures are factual, Tozzie's opinion and perception is not.

[Tom4784]

It is my perception and the perception of many many people in this town and neighbouring towns I live in. Yes I do remember how life was in years gone by, I do not like the idea of the diversity when I am driving through a town, stop and ask for directions to be met with contempt. To go shopping and find myself feeling like a stranger in my own country. The town which once people came for miles on coachloads to visit the market is now a filthy town and this saddens me. Please don't patronise me and be condescending, you may be more intelligent than me but that doesn't make you a better person than me. The country today makes me and many many others sad.

It's not about intelligence and nothing in this topic is indicative of anyone being better than anyone else. It's a debate and all I've done is not accept your version of events because I've found evidence that suggests the contrary to what you are saying.

[Tozzie]

Because I was looking at the various censuses from different parts of Yorkshire and Bradford's was the only really diverse one I could find and even then the majority is still White/Christian, since that's the case then Tozzie's claims of feeling like a minority aren't likely true given that I've not come across one census that paints white/christian people as a minority. If you read my previous post then you'd have understood that.

Tozzie provided figures without a source, I produced figures that were backed up by a source. The official figures are factual, Tozzie's opinion and perception is not.

excuse me I do not tell lies. I am not claiming anything, it is a reality where I live.

[Niamh.]

tbf though Tozzie, you can't just say well I live here so my view is right and yours is wrong and that's the end of it. This is the debate section and Dezzy is debating with you, you're using personal experience and he's using figures from studies etc no one is calling anyone stupid :/

[Tom4784]

excuse me I do not tell lies. I am not claiming anything, it is a reality where I live.

I'm not saying you are lying, I just don't think your perception of things is entirely reflective of the citizenship of your area.

[DemolitionRed]

The top local authorities in England and Wales with the highest percent of Muslims in 2011 were:

London Borough of Tower Hamlets 34.5% 87,696.
London Borough of Newham 32.0% 98,456.
Blackburn with Darwen 27.4% 38,817.
City of Bradford 24.7% 129,041.
Luton 24.6% 49,991.
London Borough of Redbridge 23.3% 64,999.

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_Kingdom

[Tozzie]

The top local authorities in England and Wales with the highest percent of Muslims in 2011 were:

London Borough of Tower Hamlets 34.5% 87,696.
London Borough of Newham 32.0% 98,456.
Blackburn with Darwen 27.4% 38,817.
City of Bradford 24.7% 129,041.
Luton 24.6% 49,991.
London Borough of Redbridge 23.3% 64,999.

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_Kingdom

This was in 2011, wonder what the stats are now, I can't find any after 2011

[Tozzie]

I'm not saying you are lying, I just don't think your perception of things is entirely reflective of the citizenship of your area.

If you visited where I live you would understand what I am saying

[user104658]

It is my perception and the perception of many many people in this town and neighbouring towns I live in. Yes I do remember how life was in years gone by, I do not like the idea of the diversity when I am driving through a town, stop and ask for directions to be met with contempt. To go shopping and find myself feeling like a stranger in my own country. The town which once people came for miles on coachloads to visit the market is now a filthy town and this saddens me. Please don't patronise me and be condescending, you may be more intelligent than me but that doesn't make you a better person than me. The country today makes me and many many others sad.
The thing is, I feel like you may be seeing some changes and attributing them to immigration and cultural differences when they are perhaps coincidental in many ways. My wife is from a market town in the North of England, I lived there with her for three years. All of the older generations talk about how it used to have a thriving, vibrant local market where people came from up to 50 miles away every week. Nice place, friendly locals, etc.

It is not like that now. It is an absolute ****hole and what is left of the market is, frankly, disgusting. Tat and (probably) stolen goods. The town itself is run down, the people are drunk/high and aggressive, and it's basically just an unpleasant place to be, let alone live.

It is still 99% white British. These people are all locals born and bred.

I feel like you are seeing the changes in small towns / communities that are occurring everywhere and you are assuming that immigration is the cause. I suspect you'd find, if there had been no immigration at all, you'd still have the same complaints about the area and the people.

[Kazanne]

It is my perception and the perception of many many people in this town and neighbouring towns I live in. Yes I do remember how life was in years gone by, I do not like the idea of the diversity when I am driving through a town, stop and ask for directions to be met with contempt. To go shopping and find myself feeling like a stranger in my own country. The town which once people came for miles on coachloads to visit the market is now a filthy town and this saddens me. Please don't patronise me and be condescending, you may be more intelligent than me but that doesn't make you a better person than me. The country today makes me and many many others sad.

100% agree Tozzie,I will live happily with any race,colour or creed but NOT when they are trying to force their will on me or my country,we don't do it there,we are not allowed to,so they are welcome here but you are governed by our rules and speak our language at the very least.

[Cherie]

This was in 2011, wonder what the stats are now, I can't find any after 2011

The last census was in 2011 so the figures are seriously out of date

[Cherie]

The thing is, I feel like you may be seeing some changes and attributing them to immigration and cultural differences when they are perhaps coincidental in many ways. My wife is from a market town in the North of England, I lived there with her for three years. All of the older generations talk about how it used to have a thriving, vibrant local market where people came from up to 50 miles away every week. Nice place, friendly locals, etc.

It is not like that now. It is an absolute ****hole and what is left of the market is, frankly, disgusting. Tat and (probably) stolen goods. The town itself is run down, the people are drunk/high and aggressive, and it's basically just an unpleasant place to be, let alone live.

It is still 99% white British. These people are all locals born and bred.


I feel like you are seeing the changes in small towns / communities that are occurring everywhere and you are assuming that immigration is the cause. I suspect you'd find, if there had been no immigration at all, you'd still have the same complaints about the area and the people.


That's your experience are you seriously suggesting Tozzie can't identify a white Brit :joker:

[Cherie]

This link shows estimates per region from 2011 to March 2015, add another two years figures on top you might get closer to the truth, ignoring all the illegals of course :hee:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31748422

[user104658]

That's your experience are you seriously suggesting Tozzie can't identify a white Brit :joker:
No and that's not my point. I'm not saying the people in her area are secretly white. I'm saying that a LOT of previously nice, friendly market towns have gone to sh** in the last couple of decades and it has very little to do with "dirty immigrants". It's happening in towns where there is very little immigration, too. Immigrants are somewhat of a scapegoat and the town wouldn't be any better if there had been less... It's just that the "unfriendly faces" would be white British ones.

[Northern Monkey]

g7TAAw3oQvg

[Cherie]

No and that's not my point. I'm not saying the people in her area are secretly white. I'm saying that a LOT of previously nice, friendly market towns have gone to sh** in the last couple of decades and it has very little to do with "dirty immigrants". It's happening in towns where there is very little immigration, too. Immigrants are somewhat of a scapegoat and the town wouldn't be any better if there had been less... It's just that the "unfriendly faces" would be white British ones.

I completely get your point, and I agree to a point however I don't know why you find it completely acceptable that there can be British only **** holes but you don't accept that there are some towns where immigrants have contributed to the **** hole

[user104658]

I completely get your point, and I agree to a point however I don't know why you find it completely acceptable that there can be British only **** holes but you don't accept that there are some towns where immigrants have contributed to the **** hole
I don't see the relevance of the skin colour of the people living in ****holes?

[Cherie]

I don't see the relevance of the skin colour of the people living in ****holes?

you saw the relevance of pointing out that your wife's ****hole town was 99 per cent white British :suspect:

[Marsh.]

I completely get your point, and I agree to a point however I don't know why you find it completely acceptable that there can be British only **** holes but you don't accept that there are some towns where immigrants have contributed to the **** hole

But there's a difference between "There are sh*tholes everywhere regardless of race colour and creed" and "This one is a sh*thole BECAUSE of immigration".

[Marsh.]

you saw the relevance of pointing out that your wife's ****hole town was 99 per cent white British :suspect:

To prove you don't have to be Asian to be a sh*t head?

[Marsh.]

Never in all my life have I seen a thread full of so many "sh*tholes" references. I LOVE IT.

[Withano]

It is my perception and the perception of many many people in this town and neighbouring towns I live in. Yes I do remember how life was in years gone by, I do not like the idea of the diversity when I am driving through a town, stop and ask for directions to be met with contempt. To go shopping and find myself feeling like a stranger in my own country. The town which once people came for miles on coachloads to visit the market is now a filthy town and this saddens me. Please don't patronise me and be condescending, you may be more intelligent than me but that doesn't make you a better person than me. The country today makes me and many many others sad.

What percentage of your town are British? What percentage of your town should be British?

[Tozzie]

What percentage of your town are British? What percentage of your town should be British?

point taken but a hell of a lot of the 'British' have been over to other countries, married people and brought them over to this country

[Marsh.]

point taken but a hell of a lot of the 'British' have been over to other countries, married people and brought them over to this country

And?

Are we banning interracial relationships now?

[Withano]

point taken but a hell of a lot of the 'British' have been over to other countries, married people and brought them over to this country

Would that suggest that a lot of Brits from your town feel the opposite way to you?

[Tozzie]

And?

Are we banning interracial relationships now?

I have no qualms about any colour marrying another colour, what I don't agree with is coming here, gaining citizenship then sodding off to the country they left to bring them over to this country. Where does it end. Why do they not concentrate on building their own infrastructure and then they can live in their homeland. It is only a matter of time before we are well overcrowded. We are already suffering with the nhs because of the resources being way stretched.

[Tozzie]

Would that suggest that a lot of Brits from your town feel the opposite way to you?

some do some don't

[Marsh.]

I have no qualms about any colour marrying another colour, what I don't agree with is coming here, gaining citizenship then sodding off to the country they left to bring them over to this country. Where does it end. Why do they not concentrate on building their own infrastructure and then they can live in their homeland. It is only a matter of time before we are well overcrowded. We are already suffering with the nhs because of the resources being way stretched.

The NHS is struggling because the government are refusing to fund it properly.

Out of interest, what is the statistics for Brits marrying foreigners just so they can get citizenship and move their extended family over?

[Kizzy]

I have no qualms about any colour marrying another colour, what I don't agree with is coming here, gaining citizenship then sodding off to the country they left to bring them over to this country. Where does it end. Why do they not concentrate on building their own infrastructure and then they can live in their homeland. It is only a matter of time before we are well overcrowded. We are already suffering with the nhs because of the resources being way stretched.

Nope and nope, neither are anything to do with immigration.

Affordable homes have been sold off and replaced with houses costing hundreds of thousands...

And the NHS has had it's main sources of income sold off, as up to a couple of years ago it was in profit.

Please do some research.

[Jamie89]

I watched the Katie Hopkins one (god help me) and what she's saying just isn't true. I was in Westminster today and people aren't cowed and afraid. She's talking as if she's speaking on behalf of Londoners when really she's just giving the Fox News audience what they want to hear. it's a performance and she's an expert at sounding convincing, I'll give her that, but what she's actually saying is rubbish. There's a reason they chose to have her as their correspondent rather than someone credible, they don't want to provide factual news, they want to push an agenda, and for a price she'll say whatever they want her to.

[Tozzie]

The NHS is struggling because the government are refusing to fund it properly.

Out of interest, what is the statistics for Brits marrying foreigners just so they can get citizenship and move their extended family over?

me not knowing the statistics for this doesn't take away the fact that it happens and it will keep happening. Lets just open the gates, let every single person come into our small island that wants to come in......where will it end? Overcrowding. It can't carry on. There is a reason so many people want to come to this country, yes, I am proud to live in Great Britain but I don't want to live in Great World, why is that wrong of me to think like this? My dad is 84 years old, a very well educated, intelligent man and he told me, "I have lived a long time and never in my life have I seen it as bad as it is today" He is surrounded by people from another country and culture and cannot see the faces of the people walking by. No one gives him the time of day where he lives, he isn't used to that, he is used to people stopping in the streets to talk to him, friendliness, neighbourly people, he has none of this anymore and this upsets him.

[Tom4784]

me not knowing the statistics for this doesn't take away the fact that it happens and it will keep happening. Lets just open the gates, let every single person come into our small island that wants to come in......where will it end? Overcrowding. It can't carry on. There is a reason so many people want to come to this country, yes, I am proud to live in Great Britain but I don't want to live in Great World, why is that wrong of me to think like this? My dad is 84 years old, a very well educated, intelligent man and he told me, "I have lived a long time and never in my life have I seen it as bad as it is today" He is surrounded by people from another country and culture and cannot see the faces of the people walking by. No one gives him the time of day where he lives, he isn't used to that, he is used to people stopping in the streets to talk to him, friendliness, neighbourly people, he has none of this anymore and this upsets him.

Anecdotal evidence is pointless unless backed up with real facts.

[Tom4784]

If you visited where I live you would understand what I am saying

The stats say otherwise.

[Withano]

some do some don't

That doesnt sound like a real issue then :shrug:

[Brillopad]

me not knowing the statistics for this doesn't take away the fact that it happens and it will keep happening. Lets just open the gates, let every single person come into our small island that wants to come in......where will it end? Overcrowding. It can't carry on. There is a reason so many people want to come to this country, yes, I am proud to live in Great Britain but I don't want to live in Great World, why is that wrong of me to think like this? My dad is 84 years old, a very well educated, intelligent man and he told me, "I have lived a long time and never in my life have I seen it as bad as it is today" He is surrounded by people from another country and culture and cannot see the faces of the people walking by. No one gives him the time of day where he lives, he isn't used to that, he is used to people stopping in the streets to talk to him, friendliness, neighbourly people, he has none of this anymore and this upsets him.

Tozzie many people feel that way which is why immigration is such a discussion point right now. Parts of Britain don't look like Britain anymore but some would try to convince us that is a good thing and we should all be excited about multiculturism because they say so. It isn't working - hence Brexit.

We are all entitled to our opinions and you are far from being alone in yours.

[Marsh.]

me not knowing the statistics for this doesn't take away the fact that it happens and it will keep happening. Lets just open the gates, let every single person come into our small island that wants to come in......where will it end? Overcrowding. It can't carry on. There is a reason so many people want to come to this country, yes, I am proud to live in Great Britain but I don't want to live in Great World, why is that wrong of me to think like this? My dad is 84 years old, a very well educated, intelligent man and he told me, "I have lived a long time and never in my life have I seen it as bad as it is today" He is surrounded by people from another country and culture and cannot see the faces of the people walking by. No one gives him the time of day where he lives, he isn't used to that, he is used to people stopping in the streets to talk to him, friendliness, neighbourly people, he has none of this anymore and this upsets him.
Yeah you don't need statistics to back up the people you know who have done it. That's true.

But to make put it's a major problem the country is facing overall, that requires facts and figures beyond people you personally know.

[Marsh.]

Well the people I deal with around where I live on a daily basis are all British, mostly white and I can see their faces clearly and most of them don't stop to chat, being all neighbourly.

That's not an immigrant problem. That's a "everyone's hooked on their phones" problem imo.

It's not the 1950s anymore in more ways than one.

[Tozzie]

My final post on this subject is I am glad I am on my out and not on my way in. I am sad how my country has ended up.

[Brillopad]

Yeah you don't need statistics to back up the people you know who have done it. That's true.

But to make put it's a major problem the country is facing overall, that requires facts and figures beyond people you personally know.

I think everything going on at the moment demonstrates it is a major problem. You'd have to be blind in more ways than one not to see that. And it isn't for an idealistic and inexperienced youth to tell everyone else the way things should be.

[Marsh.]

I think everything going on at the moment demonstrates it is a major problem. You'd have to be blind in more ways than one not to see that. And it isn't for an idealistic and inexperienced youth to tell everyone else the way things should be.

Who are this inexperienced youth telling everyone else how it should be?

You think everything going on at the moment demonstrates Brits marrying foreigners to get them and their families citizenship is a major problem?

Or have you entered a discussion without double checking the context of certain posts and just responded?

[Liberty4eva]

Katie Hopkins on Tucker again responding to JK Rowling. Britain needs to listen to Tucker. :laugh:

RoUq6wUynIM

[Cherie]

To prove you don't have to be Asian to be a sh*t head?

It doesn't prove anything, TS is just speaking from his experience, he has posted no facts to back it up, he hasn't been asked to produce a 2011 census to back up his claims of a town practically full of white Brits which coincidentally happens to be a ****hole, how convenient :laugh: yet it is accepted as fact, while Tozzie has to back up all her post with facts and figures, only on TiBB :pipe: I'm an immigrant but I can see that not all immigrants contribute in a positive way to the community same as all natives don't, to claim otherwise is absurd

[Cherie]

Anecdotal evidence is pointless unless backed up with real facts.

Tell that to TS

[Cherie]

The stats say otherwise.


Your stats are 6 years old

[user104658]

tell that to ts
explain yourself woman

[user104658]

OK here goes then/. 99% wasn't an exact figure but rather an illustration of "vast majority". Actual figures were 94.3% White British in 2007 and 96.9% White British in 2011. "WHAT!?", I hear you cry, "How can there be a DOWNWARDS trend in immigrant density numbers when we all know they are taking over the UK piece by piece??". That's the most recent available data, the next census is April 2017, but unless you're trying to tell me that there has been a massive influx in the last couple of years, I think it's safe to assume that the town is roughly 95% White British.

As for it being an unfriendly ****hole, I'm afraid I can't provide links for that, you'll just have to go there and experience it for yourself. Market day is Tuesday morning. Take a knife or small taser :joker:.

https://image.ibb.co/gwsugF/censusdata.png

Local stats mid-2007 (http://chorley.gov.uk/Documents/Planning/Planning%20Policy/Chorley%20Profile%20v1.pdf)

Census data 2011 (http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/media/898852/census-2011-districts-ethnicity.pdf)


You're so vry welcome.

[user104658]

Your stats are 6 years old

As I pointed out in the above post, everyone's stats are 6 years old, because the last census was in 2011. There is one this year. The 2017 census somehow showing some sort of vast shift in population demographics is HIGHLY unlikely, especially considering the fact that immigration levels year-on-year, whilst up since 2011, are not up THAT significantly. And in fact the current figures don't even have a particularly high degree of accuracy because - as you point out yourself - there IS NO DATA AVAILABLE since 2011 and the current immigration stats are estimates that are likely to be revised as soon as the actual data is collated.

There's very little point continuing to argue these points until the 2017 census data is available... but I'm sticking a reminder in my calendar to pop back into this thread when that data is released. I would be willing to bet a decent amount that they show minimal increase in the vast majority of areas.

[Kazanne]

My final post on this subject is I am glad I am on my out and not on my way in. I am sad how my country has ended up.

Good to hear your thoughts Tozzie,I totally agree with you,I am quite sure we are not alone,just some not so verbal.

[Cherie]

As I pointed out in the above post, everyone's stats are 6 years old, because the last census was in 2011. There is one this year. The 2017 census somehow showing some sort of vast shift in population demographics is HIGHLY unlikely, especially considering the fact that immigration levels year-on-year, whilst up since 2011, are not up THAT significantly. And in fact the current figures don't even have a particularly high degree of accuracy because - as you point out yourself - there IS NO DATA AVAILABLE since 2011 and the current immigration stats are estimates that are likely to be revised as soon as the actual data is collated.

There's very little point continuing to argue these points until the 2017 census data is available... but I'm sticking a reminder in my calendar to pop back into this thread when that data is released. I would be willing to bet a decent amount that they show minimal increase in the vast majority of areas.


my stats are from 2015 :smug: anyway the point was TS that you were not asked by anyone demanding stats from Tozzie to produce them to back up your post, one rule for one etc.... but thank you for producing them.

[user104658]

my stats are from 2015 :smug:

:nono: Estimates, the only official population stats are the census.

[Cherie]

:nono: Estimates, the only official population stats are the census.

they might be estimates but they are probably more accurate than figures from 6 years ago :fist:

[smudgie]

Surely the next census is in 2021.
Only a test census in 2017. Limited areas to test out some new questioning.

[user104658]

Surely the next census is in 2021.
Only a test census in 2017. Limited areas to test out some new questioning.

Hmmm, that does seem to be the case. I guess we'll never know, no way TiBB will still be around in 2021 :laugh:.

[smudgie]

Hmmm, that does seem to be the case. I guess we'll never know, no way TiBB will still be around in 2021 :laugh:.

Don't say that TS.
I need my daily dose of TIBB.

[user104658]

Don't say that TS.
I need my daily dose of TIBB.
I have wondered how I'll ever know what's going on in the world without Tibb :think:. I don't have broadcast telly and I purposefully avoid newspaper stands like the plague because tabloid headlines ruin my day. I rely on Tibb for the headlines and then I Google the issue to get the actual facts :joker:. Without Arista telling me what's happening in 1080p I'll be lost...

[Tom4784]

Your stats are 6 years old

Incorrect, the Bradford stats I listed were from last year.

[Northern Monkey]

Incorrect, the Bradford stats I listed were from last year.

Have you been?

There's a reason it's known locally as Bradistan.

[Tom4784]

Have you been?

There's a reason it's known locally as Bradistan.

I prefer to rely on stats rather than biased perceptions.

[user104658]

There's a reason it's known locally as Bradistan.

That reason being casual racism, I assume?

[Northern Monkey]

That reason being casual racism, I assume?

Nope.The reason being that prominent parts of it resemble an Asian country rather than a Yorkshire city.

[user104658]

Nope.The reason being that prominent parts of it resemble an Asian country rather than a Yorkshire city.

And so people call it... "Bradistan". Those funny, witty, not-at-all-casually-racist scamps.

[Niamh.]

:hehe:

G9FggJE1HjY

[user104658]

:hehe:

G9FggJE1HjY

"The British are never Foreigners, wherever they go!"

I'm not sure if he's joking or not but... I'm pretty sure that a lot of British people do, if they're being honest, believe that to be the truth.

[Niamh.]

"The British are never Foreigners, wherever they go!"

I'm not sure if he's joking or not but... I'm pretty sure that a lot of British people do, if they're being honest, believe that to be the truth.

I just put that there because these "Ex Pats" (not immigrants of course) are doing exactly what some people in this thread are getting upset about when foreigners come into Britain ie. not integrate, form "ghettos", expect the natives to adapt to them, refuse to learn the language etc etc ..............no doubt I'll get the" but we Brits are making Spain better/giving them money etc etc excuse *yawn*

[user104658]

I just put that there because these "Ex Pats" (not immigrants of course) are doing exactly what some people in this thread are getting upset about when foreigners come into Britain ie. not integrate, form "ghettos", expect the natives to adapt to them, refuse to learn the language etc etc ..............no doubt I'll get the" but we Brits are making Spain better/giving them money etc etc excuse *yawn*

But British ghettos are nice and posh and clean and only have leather-faced old people who spend far too much time in the sun... dirty Bradistan ghettos are full of filthy disgusting non-British people. You must see that there is a huge difference.

[Niamh.]

But British ghettos are nice and posh and clean and only have leather-faced old people who spend far too much time in the sun... dirty Bradistan ghettos are full of filthy disgusting non-British people. You must see that there is a huge difference.

:laugh:

On a personal note, I know a few English people living in Spain from spending holidays there and they all said they voted to leave the EU too because too many foreigners etc......but none of them have any intention of ever moving back there from Spain............odd.

[Cherie]

I just put that there because these "Ex Pats" (not immigrants of course) are doing exactly what some people in this thread are getting upset about when foreigners come into Britain ie. not integrate, form "ghettos", expect the natives to adapt to them, refuse to learn the language etc etc ..............no doubt I'll get the" but we Brits are making Spain better/giving them money etc etc excuse *yawn*

Yeah it always make me smile when they say we moved here to get away from the immigrants :joker:

As for people living together in communities this has been the case for centuries, the Irish did it in New York and Boston, the Italians in Little Italy, the Jews in Stamford Hill etc etc I don't have an issue with that

[Cherie]

:laugh:

On a personal note, I know a few English people living in Spain from spending holidays there and they all said they voted to leave the EU too because too many foreigners etc......but none of them have any intention of ever moving back there from Spain............odd.

I think a lot of them didn't think about the potential consequences or didn't think it applied to them

[Niamh.]

I think a lot of them didn't think about the potential consequences or didn't think it applied to them

I really don't know, I didn't even want to get into it with them it was so stupid :laugh:

[Cherie]

But British ghettos are nice and posh and clean and only have leather-faced old people who spend far too much time in the sun... dirty Bradistan ghettos are full of filthy disgusting non-British people. You must see that there is a huge difference.

I think the difference practically a quarter of any city in Spain isn't English or any other culture, they remain predominantly Spanish? If Cork City were to become 25% Muslim and instead of the Shandon Bells all you could hear were calls to prayer, I'm pretty sure the Irish would have something to say about it. :joker:

[Niamh.]

I think the difference practically a quarter of any city in Spain isn't English or any other culture, they remain predominantly Spanish? If Cork City were to become 25% Muslim and instead of the Shandon Bells all you could hear were calls to prayer, I'm pretty sure the Irish would have something to say about it. :joker:

We just need to get rid of religion full stop I think, solve all these issues :hee:

[Tozzie]

I just put that there because these "Ex Pats" (not immigrants of course) are doing exactly what some people in this thread are getting upset about when foreigners come into Britain ie. not integrate, form "ghettos", expect the natives to adapt to them, refuse to learn the language etc etc ..............no doubt I'll get the" but we Brits are making Spain better/giving them money etc etc excuse *yawn*

I think the difference between people moving to Spain from Britain and people coming here from anywhere is that fact unless you have paid into the spanish system you cannot claim benefits, which I reckon should be the case here. A lot of the expats are using their pensions to live there

[Niamh.]

I think the difference between people moving to Spain from Britain and people coming here from anywhere is that fact unless you have paid into the spanish system you cannot claim benefits, which I reckon should be the case here. A lot of the expats are using their pensions to live there

That's not the point I was making though. The point I was making was that alot of British in Spain do all the stuff that they accuse immigrants in Britain of doing but they always have excuses of why it's ok for them to do it :shrug: (ie not learn the language, not integrate, form ghettos, not only don't learn Spanish but actually expect the Spanish to speak English etc etc )

[Tozzie]

We just need to get rid of religion full stop I think, solve all these issues :hee:

Its everyones right to have their beliefs just don't understand why it is taken to the extreme. Praying 5 times a day every day? Religious instruction after school is out even when religious education is performed during school days. I believe in God but it doesn't worry me that others don't and I wouldn't dream of trying to push my beliefs onto others or fighting with people because of what I believe. So yes, in a way I get what you are saying here Niamh, I can understand why people say religion is the root of all evil. I'm not judging, I'm just not understanding and I don't think I ever will.

[Niamh.]

Its everyones right to have their beliefs just don't understand why it is taken to the extreme. Praying 5 times a day every day? Religious instruction after school is out even when religious education is performed during school days. I believe in God but it doesn't worry me that others don't and I wouldn't dream of trying to push my beliefs onto others or fighting with people because of what I believe. So yes, in a way I get what you are saying here Niamh, I can understand why people say religion is the root of all evil. I'm not judging, I'm just not understanding and I don't think I ever will.

I mean to say religion should have nothing to do with schools or state and shouldn't effect your job in anyway. If you want to practice religion do it in your own time basically.

[Tozzie]

That's not the point I was making though. The point I was making was that alot of British in Spain do all the stuff that they accuse immigrants in Britain of doing but they always have excuses of why it's ok for them to do it :shrug: (ie not learn the language, not integrate, form ghettos, not only don't learn Spanish but actually expect the Spanish to speak English etc etc )

I lived in Spain for two years and I learned the language, I wasn't very good but I got by and the Spanish people always smiled and were friendly towards me when they saw I was at least trying. Yeah, I have a friend who went on holiday to spain and came back playing pop about the spanish not speaking English, what the hell? Most ex pats live in English communities which I think is wrong they should integrate, I lived in a very Spanish town inland, the doctor didn't speak English and when I look back I don't know how the heck I managed, but I did. The Spanish respect you more if you at least try to speak their language. They don't seem to take much issue with the Brits to be fair, in my experience anyway whilst I was there.

[Niamh.]

I lived in Spain for two years and I learned the language, I wasn't very good but I got by and the Spanish people always smiled and were friendly towards me when they saw I was at least trying. Yeah, I have a friend who went on holiday to spain and came back playing pop about the spanish not speaking English, what the hell? Most ex pats live in English communities which I think is wrong they should integrate, I lived in a very Spanish town inland, the doctor didn't speak English and when I look back I don't know how the heck I managed, but I did. The Spanish respect you more if you at least try to speak their language. They don't seem to take much issue with the Brits to be fair, in my experience anyway whilst I was there.

Yeah, i don't understand why you would want to move to Spain and not immerse yourself in their culture, why move otherwise? It's not much of an experience otherwise

[Withano]

Tozzie many people feel that way which is why immigration is such a discussion point right now. Parts of Britain don't look like Britain anymore but some would try to convince us that is a good thing and we should all be excited about multiculturism because they say so. It isn't working - hence Brexit.

We are all entitled to our opinions and you are far from being alone in yours.

People who voted Brexit wanted less EU immigration, and therefore, more Asian migrants to take their place (unless they misunderstood Brexit and thought it meant less immigration altogether). Bringing up Brexit doesnt really make sense in a context regarding Muslim culture in Yorkshire, it will likely grow after Brexit, and the Brexiteers likely knew this.
The question is, does this really matter? does anyone have any evidence that multiculturalism is worse than countries with 99%+ of one culture. Look back on the world 200 years compared to now, wouldnt it just be correct to presume that multiculturalism is the way every country is moving (particularly the more economically advanced countries).
Countries where alcohol is banned, like Tunisia have bars and nightclubs, countries like Spain have neighbourhoods practically dedicated to non-locals, I've even watched an entire series of Big Brother in Uganda during a time where LGBT promotion was technically illegal (it isnt anymore, probably due to the changing attitudes of cultures around them). It just wouldnt make sense for these countries to move backwards, why would it make sense for Britain to do so? New Zealand has a pretty successful pay wage for genders system, Bangladesh and Singapore has an excellent ecological footprint, shouldn't we start incorporating their ideas? You don't lose a culture by incorporating others, fear of doing so is simply unfounded and irrational.

[DemolitionRed]

Have you been?

There's a reason it's known locally as Bradistan.

It was known as that when my mum was a kid.

Best back street curry houses this side of Pakistan in Bradford :hee::hee:

[Northern Monkey]

It was known as that when my mum was a kid.

Best back street curry houses this side of Pakistan in Bradford :hee::hee:

Oh yeah,
No doubt you can get a decent curry there

[DemolitionRed]

People who voted Brexit wanted less EU immigration, and therefore, more Asian migrants to take their place (unless they misunderstood Brexit and thought it meant less immigration altogether).

I honestly believe that those who voted for Brexit because of the foreigners, believed it would control immigration from around the globe and not just European foreigners. You hear too many Brexiteers complaining about open borders. We only have open borders within Europe for Europeans; to everyone else, those borders have tight and often impossible restrictions. An Iraqi traveller coming from France to the UK is as heavily scrutinized by immigration as he would be if he'd flown in from Iraq.

The tabloids give us all the impression that its easy; that they can come over here and sponge off our healthcare, social security and council housing; when in fact, if you are are anything other than European, its actually very difficult to get into Britain for anything other than a holiday. If you intend to work, study or simply reside here then its going to be quite problematic and very expensive.

[Kazanne]

Oh yeah,
No doubt you can get a decent curry there

Wonder if you can get fish and chips in Pakistan?

[Niamh.]

Wonder if you can get fish and chips in Pakistan?

https://www.tripadvisor.ie/ShowUserReviews-g293960-d2650122-r266067126-Mr_Cod-Islamabad_Islamabad_Capital_Territory.html

[Alf]

Over 200 replies in this thread. Just shows how more popular the likes of Hopkins and Farage are.

Owen Jones or Billy Bragg, could only dream of having that response, but what the say, doesn't make any sense, so no one is interested.

[Kazanne]

I lived in Spain for two years and I learned the language, I wasn't very good but I got by and the Spanish people always smiled and were friendly towards me when they saw I was at least trying. Yeah, I have a friend who went on holiday to spain and came back playing pop about the spanish not speaking English, what the hell? Most ex pats live in English communities which I think is wrong they should integrate, I lived in a very Spanish town inland, the doctor didn't speak English and when I look back I don't know how the heck I managed, but I did. The Spanish respect you more if you at least try to speak their language. They don't seem to take much issue with the Brits to be fair, in my experience anyway whilst I was there.

I think a lot of people move to Spain and similar countries because of the weather and lifestyle and I agree if you move to a none English speaking country at least have the decency to attempt to learn their language.the amount of times I have had someone on the phone that I just cannot understand,I even have difficulty with some doctors etc.which can be embarrassing.

[Niamh.]

Over 200 replies in this thread. Just shows how more popular the likes of Hopkins and Farage are.

Owen Jones or Billy Bragg, could only dream of having that response, but what the say, doesn't make any sense, so no one is interested.

Most of the replies are just about plain old immigration though tbf not them two idiots

[Alf]

Most of the replies are just about plain old immigration though tbf not them two idiotsBut it started about them, and because they are interesting and have a point of view, it carried on, because people enjoyed the debate.

[Kazanne]

https://www.tripadvisor.ie/ShowUserReviews-g293960-d2650122-r266067126-Mr_Cod-Islamabad_Islamabad_Capital_Territory.html

LOL, it's nice to know our national dish is on the menu:hehe:

[Kazanne]

But it started about them, and because they are interesting and have a point of view, it carried on, because people enjoyed the debate.

If they get people talking,job done I say.

[Tozzie]

https://www.tripadvisor.ie/ShowUserReviews-g293960-d2650122-r266067126-Mr_Cod-Islamabad_Islamabad_Capital_Territory.html

ah, not like the fish and chips you can get in Britain tho yanno, no one makes fish 'ole like they do here in Yorkshire :tongue:

[Alf]

Popular is the word I was looking for.

[Withano]

Over 200 replies in this thread. Just shows how more popular the likes of Hopkins and Farage are.

Owen Jones or Billy Bragg, could only dream of having that response, but what the say, doesn't make any sense, so no one is interested.

There are 37 references to Hopkins in this thread and 15 to Farage, that includes times when a post mentioning them was quoted by others, and times where both names were mentioned in the same post were counted twice :joker:

[Niamh.]

But it started about them, and because they are interesting and have a point of view, it carried on, because people enjoyed the debate.

Immigration and most especially Muslims is a hot topic right now any thread on immigration is guaranteed many replies. I disagree that they are interesting, I would say rude and arrogant is more like it :hee:

[Niamh.]

ah, not like the fish and chips you can get in Britain tho yanno, no one makes fish 'ole like they do here in Yorkshire :tongue:

I don't doubt that Tozzie :laugh:

[DemolitionRed]

ah, not like the fish and chips you can get in Britain tho yanno, no one makes fish 'ole like they do here in Yorkshire :tongue:

I would agree with that. I was in Leeds last week and my first stop was a fish and chip shop. Yorkshire do amazing fishcakes with a slice of potato, fish and batter. I've never managed to find such a fine delicacy here in the south. :bawling:

My next stop was a Yorkshire bakers for another thing you can't find in the south... curd tart :cheer2:

Edited to add, maybe we should start a foodie thread!

[Alf]

There are 37 references to Hopkins in this thread and 15 to Farage, that includes times a post mentioning them was quoted and time where both names were mentioned were counted twice :joker:You would rather talk about the likes of Farage and Hopkins, than any progressive bore-fest.

It's because what they say is interesting, and you can probably see a bit of truth at the end of the tunnel.

[Niamh.]

You would rather talk about the likes of Farage and Hopkins, than any progressive bore-fest.

It's because what they say is interesting, and you can probably see a bit of truth at the end of the tunnel.

What they say is usually offensive and hypocritical rather than interesting from what I've heard (mainly Hopkins, I haven't really listened to much of anything Nigel farage said) it get's people commenting because they rile people up. Katie is nothing more than shock tactic band wagon jumping leech. Literally her "talent" is annoying people

[Withano]

You would rather talk about the likes of Farage and Hopkins, than any progressive bore-fest.

It's because what they say is interesting, and you can probably see a bit of truth at the end of the tunnel.

I havent talked about them though, hardly anyone on this thread has lol. A rough estimate would be about 30 different posts (out of ~230) made by about 9 different users (out of 29) have done so. It wasnt the OP that enticed me, it was the posts made within it.

[Alf]

I havent talked about them though, hardly anyone on this thread has lol. A rough estimate would be about 30 different posts (out of ~230) made by about 9 different users (out of 29) have done so. It wasnt the OP that enticed me, it was the posts made within it.Well then you should stop trolling and stick on topic.

[Withano]

Well then you should stop trolling and stick on topic.

The topic was soooo 200 posts ago. We're now talking about fish and chips in Pakistan. Sounds delicious, sign me up.

[Niamh.]

The topic was soooo 200 posts ago. We're now talking about fish and chips in Pakistan. Sounds delicious, sign me up.

:laugh2:

[Alf]

What they say is usually offensive and hypocritical rather than interesting from what I've heard (mainly Hopkins, I haven't really listened to much of anything Nigel farage said) it get's people commenting because they rile people up. Katie is nothing more than shock tactic band wagon jumping leech. Literally her "talent" is annoying peopleThat's a plus, most good comedy is.

[Niamh.]

That's a plus, most good comedy is.

Well atleast you admit that they're a pair of clowns :laugh:

[Marsh.]

It doesn't prove anything, TS is just speaking from his experience, he has posted no facts to back it up, he hasn't been asked to produce a 2011 census to back up his claims of a town practically full of white Brits which coincidentally happens to be a ****hole, how convenient [emoji23] yet it is accepted as fact, while Tozzie has to back up all her post with facts and figures, only on TiBB :pipe: I'm an immigrant but I can see that not all immigrants contribute in a positive way to the community same as all natives don't, to claim otherwise is absurd
Not the case at all.

Tozzie made a point based on anecdotal evidence. TS then made the opposite point based on anecdotal evidence. Thus showing anecdotal evidence doesn't mean anything.

[Marsh.]

It doesn't prove anything, TS is just speaking from his experience, he has posted no facts to back it up, he hasn't been asked to produce a 2011 census to back up his claims of a town practically full of white Brits which coincidentally happens to be a ****hole, how convenient [emoji23] yet it is accepted as fact, while Tozzie has to back up all her post with facts and figures, only on TiBB :pipe: I'm an immigrant but I can see that not all immigrants contribute in a positive way to the community same as all natives don't, to claim otherwise is absurd
Nobody's claiming otherwise.

Of course there's some who don't contribute positively. It's the same in all walks of life throughout the human race.

But to claim the majority are causing trouble and that immigrants as a whole are a problem requires statistical proof. Especially when he's claiming green card marriages are some kind of epidemic. That requires proof too.

[Cherie]

Not the case at all.

Tozzie made a point based on anecdotal evidence. TS then made the opposite point based on anecdotal evidence. Thus showing anecdotal evidence doesn't mean anything.

Was TS asked to back up his evidence with statistics? Nope

[Cherie]

Nobody's claiming otherwise.

Of course there's some who don't contribute positively. It's the same in all walks of life throughout the human race.

But to claim the majority are causing trouble and that immigrants as a whole are a problem requires statistical proof. Especially when he's claiming green card marriages are some kind of epidemic. That requires proof too.

Nobody said they caused trouble I think the claim was the cultural feel of the area had changed?

[Marsh.]

Was TS asked to back up his evidence with statistics? Nope
He was engaged in an anecdotal discussion with Tozzie. If that was the basis Tozzie wanted to discuss the subject then that was the form TS's rebuttal would take place.

For either of them and that discussion to have any factual basis then, yes, both would need actual facts and figures.

As it was Tozzie tried to use his own experience as evidence of a country wide problem. TS experience of the opposite showed it mustn't be BASED ON ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE.

Let's put things into context.

[Marsh.]

Nobody said they caused trouble I think the claim was the cultural feel of the area had changed?
Apples and oranges. He mentioned his father not feeling it was very friendly, all of the neighbours faces being foreign. The tone and description suggests it's not a positive thing.

He also mentioned the number of greencard marriages. That's not a positive thing.

If the only change is the skin colours are getting darker then the discussion is even more ridiculous than I first thought.

[Tozzie]

Apples and oranges. He mentioned his father not feeling it was very friendly, all of the neighbours faces being foreign. The tone and description suggests it's not a positive thing.

He also mentioned the number of greencard marriages. That's not a positive thing.

If the only change is the skin colours are getting darker then the discussion is even more ridiculous than I first thought.

the things I mentioned may not be positive things but its fact. Green card marriages happen The fact my father feeling sadness how he feels his country has gone into decline in his last years of life is a negative thing, why would I feel positive about my 84 years old father feeling sad about how life as he knows it has changed. If the only change is the skin colours are getting darker, now I find that a ridiculous thing to say, it's to do with many things changing. :facepalm:

[Marsh.]

the things I mentioned may not be positive things but its fact. Green card marriages happen The fact my father feeling sadness how he feels his country has gone into decline in his last years of life is a negative thing, why would I feel positive about my 84 years old father feeling sad about how life as he knows it has changed. If the only change is the skin colours are getting darker, now I find that a ridiculous thing to say, it's to do with many things changing. :facepalm:
I never said you should feel positive.
I was responding to Cherie who said nobody said anything was negative about it.

Obviously you felt negatively about these things you've experienced so I told that was what I was referring to.

The only thing I would say is, yes, green card marriages happen. But are they a large scale problem? To suggest they are requires facts and figures. Otherwise it's just a couple of unfortunate incidents you yourself have known.

I don't really venture into this part of the forum much as every time I do I spend most of the thread having to explain the context of a discussion with one forum member to somebody else who ventures in later despite the context of discussion being there on the page for everyone to read. Therefore less time spent discussing the actual topic. It's exhausting.

[Cherie]

I never said you should feel positive.
I was responding to Cherie who said nobody said anything was negative about it.

Obviously you felt negatively about these things you've experienced so I told that was what I was referring to.

The only thing I would say is, yes, green card marriages happen. But are they a large scale problem? To suggest they are requires facts and figures. Otherwise it's just a couple of unfortunate incidents you yourself have known.

I don't really venture into this part of the forum much as every time I do I spend most of the thread having to explain the context of a discussion with one forum member to somebody else who ventures in later despite the context of discussion being there on the page for everyone to read. Therefore less time spent discussing the actual topic. It's exhausting.


I didn't say nobody said anything negative I said no one said they were trouble :nono: no wonder you find it exhausting when you can't follow what has been said :smug:

[Marsh.]

I didn't say nobody said anything negative I said no one said they were trouble :nono: no wonder you find it exhausting when you can't follow what has been said :smug:
Foreigners marrying Brits for visas and moving their extended family over isn't trouble?

Ok. :smug:

[Tozzie]

I never said you should feel positive.
I was responding to Cherie who said nobody said anything was negative about it.

Obviously you felt negatively about these things you've experienced so I told that was what I was referring to.

The only thing I would say is, yes, green card marriages happen. But are they a large scale problem? To suggest they are requires facts and figures. Otherwise it's just a couple of unfortunate incidents you yourself have known.

I don't really venture into this part of the forum much as every time I do I spend most of the thread having to explain the context of a discussion with one forum member to somebody else who ventures in later despite the context of discussion being there on the page for everyone to read. Therefore less time spent discussing the actual topic. It's exhausting.

I have to admit, this forum is exhausting and sometimes infuriating :laugh:

I don't have facts and figures, I was making reference that it does happen because some muslims have their spouses chosen for them so they go over and bring them back here.

[Marsh.]

I have to admit, this forum is exhausting and sometimes infuriating [emoji23]

I don't have facts and figures, I was making reference that it does happen because some muslims have their spouses chosen for them so they go over and bring them back here.
Which is what I said. :hee:

[MB.]

Wonder if you can get fish and chips in Pakistan?

LOL, it's nice to know our national dish is on the menu:hehe:

So you see the UK having curry houses as an invasion of our culture, but think it's cute that Pakistan has fish and chip shops rather than it being, well, a lasting symbol of British colonialism? :think:

[Beso]

There already are fish and chip.shops in pakistan

[Marsh.]

British "culture" is/was an amalgamation of stolen traditions and cultures anyway.

That's what happens on the world, things blend together and make new history and traditions. It's always happened and always will.

[user104658]

British "culture" is/was an amalgamation of stolen traditions and cultures anyway.

That's what happens on the world, things blend together and make new history and traditions. It's always happened and always will.
Incorrect Britain has been exactly the same for several thousand years. The chippy near me has been open for over 900.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[Brillopad]

British "culture" is/was an amalgamation of stolen traditions and cultures anyway.

That's what happens on the world, things blend together and make new history and traditions. It's always happened and always will.

I don't see much blending. Sometimes belief systems are just too different.