Preventing Islam becoming a state religion

[Brillopad]

https://www.rt.com/news/368755-slovakia-islam-religion-law/

I don't know about anyone else but I didn't know that once a religion has a certain amount of followers in a country it can become a state religon receiving state subsidies. Do people really want such a religion becoming a state religion in Britain?

Or is it already a state registered religion in Britain - I have no idea.

[Niamh.]

Personally I'm against all religions being a state anything, has no place there imo

[Jamie89]

Personally I'm against all religions being a state anything, has no place there imo

Same.

But as long as state and religion aren't separate then at least it should be fair and Islam treated like any other major religion, isn't it just about representing the people that live here?

[Niamh.]

Same.

But as long as state and religion aren't separate then at least it should be fair and Islam treated like any other major religion, isn't it just about representing the people that live here?

I'm not going to get overly upset about religions not having rights tbqh, especially one that treats women like second class citizens :shrug:

[user104658]

I'm in favour of equality so in that sense, I think it should be, if other religions are. I don't buy into the rhetoric than one religion is any "worse" than any other religion.

However, I do personally believe that religion and politics should be completely separate, and to go a step further, I would rather that people wake up to the con of organised religion full stop.

[jennyjuniper]

No no and no. No religion that has the concept of violence at it's core, or that advocates death to anyone who wants to leave that religion, to gays and basically anyone who doesn't have the same mind set, is anethma to any civilised society.
I'm speaking of islam now and if islam becomes a state religion, then sharia law will be an accepted part of our society and I refuse to accept any laws that has an 'etiquette of beating women'. A policy that sees nothing wrong in marriage and sexual relations with under age females and a mind set that is medieval and has no place in western society.

[Niamh.]

I'm in favour of equality so in that sense, I think it should be, if other religions are. I don't buy into the rhetoric than one religion is any "worse" than any other religion.

However, I do personally believe that religion and politics should be completely separate, and to go a step further, I would rather that people wake up to the con of organised religion full stop.

Exactly, it's so blatantly a way to have power over people and control

With regards to the BIB in the first paragraph as a woman I think that's a silly thing to say when you look at how women are treated in some religions although that probably has more to do with culture than the actual religion I think

[Denver]

The UK is not a religious country so no

[Niamh.]

The UK is not a religious country so no

isn't the Queen like the head of the Church or something? But i know what you mean, all that crap is out dated and should be totally separate

[Jamie89]

I'm not going to get overly upset about religions not having rights tbqh, especially one that treats women like second class citizens :shrug:

I'm not too fussed about it either really, I just think that fairness should be applied to things like this. If we have freedom of religion and people choose to follow it. And I think generally that integration is one of the best ways of phasing out out-dated views like treating women as second class citizens, it's not something that's a core aspect of Islam as far as I know, and I think generally that over time most people adapt to the society they're a part of over what religious text they follow, it's the more instinctive thing to do.

[Niamh.]

I'm not too fussed about it either really, I just think that fairness should be applied to things like this. If we have freedom of religion and people choose to follow it. And I think generally that integration is one of the best ways of phasing out out-dated views like treating women as second class citizens, it's not something that's a core aspect of Islam as far as I know, and I think generally that over time most people adapt to the society they're a part of over what religious text they follow, it's the more instinctive thing to do.

Yeah, I corrected myself in another post above actually, It probably is a cultural thing in alot of cases rather than the religion itself I suppose. I still wouldn't be campaigning for religious rights though as I'm totally against the whole idea of organised religions and religions being funded by the state.

[Tozzie]

I was brought up a Christian while Britain was a Christian country but now that is all about gone I am loathe to want another religious following in Britian. While Christianity is dying out Islam religion is expanding, if my religion is going to be gone I don't want another religion taking over. It seems some people of Britain think we should celebrate Islam yet not Christianity, whats that about?

[user104658]

Exactly, it's so blatantly a way to have power over people and control

With regards to the BIB in the first paragraph as a woman I think that's a silly thing to say when you look at how women are treated in some religions although that probably has more to do with culture than the actual religion I think

I think we're pretty quick to forget, though, that Christians / Westerners didn't treat women (or homosexuals, or ethnic minorities) all that differently less than a century ago... and really no differently at all 150 years ago (the whole thing, from rights, to how much flesh women were allowed to show). The entire world doesn't, and never has, progressed at a uniform rate. We move on, and then are outraged when the rest of the world - which has not had the same time nor opportunity to culturally develop - is not on exactly the same page at exactly the same time.

And that's without even going into the horrible reality that we currently seem to be majorly back-sliding.

[user104658]

I was brought up a Christian while Britain was a Christian country but now that is all about gone I am loathe to want another religious following in Britian. While Christianity is dying out Islam religion is expanding, if my religion is going to be gone I don't want another religion taking over. It seems some people of Britain think we should celebrate Islam yet not Christianity, whats that about?

This is simply not the case, the idea that Islam is "wiping out" Christianity is hysterical Daily Mail nonsense. Christianity is in decline, yes, but the most rapidly expanding category of religious belief is in NO WAY Islam (which still only sits at around 5% of the population) but is, in fact, and I'm very happy to say; atheism / agnosticism / non-religion / anti-religion.

And this category is spread across all religious traditions. Plenty of ex-Muslim nonreligious people as well as ex-Christian.

[Niamh.]

I think we're pretty quick to forget, though, that Christians / Westerners didn't treat women (or homosexuals, or ethnic minorities) all that differently less than a century ago... and really no differently at all 150 years ago (the whole thing, from rights, to how much flesh women were allowed to show). The entire world doesn't, and never has, progressed at a uniform rate. We move on, and then are outraged when the rest of the world - which has not had the same time nor opportunity to culturally develop - is not on exactly the same page at exactly the same time.

And that's without even going into the horrible reality that we currently seem to be majorly back-sliding.

Oh no I haven't forgotten that about Christianity believe me but I'm talking about the present, we don't need another religion coming in and trying to drag us back there. Also, I'm certainly not one to defend Christianity ever, Ireland is still dealing with the after effects of what the Catholic church did to people in the not so distant past particularly women and children. The point is, we should be trying to get religions away from having any influence on state and schools not encouraging the state to start funding more religions who are even less forward thinking than the ones we had

[user104658]

Oh no I haven't forgotten that about Christianity believe me but I'm talking about the present, we don't need another religion coming in and trying to drag us back there. Also, I'm certainly not one to defend Christianity ever, Ireland is still dealing with the after effects of what the Catholic church did to people in the not so distant past particularly women and children. The point is, we should be trying to get religions away from having any influence on state and schools not encouraging the state to start funding more religions who are even less forward thinking than the ones we had

The idea that an influx of Muslims is going to drag us backwards is just (unlikely) hypothesis, though. A bit of a distraction when we are currently, obviously and demonstrably, being dragged backwards by an uprising of 50+ year old white people who want to reverse the clock to the mid 20th century when women, to be honest, still weren't being treated particularly well and life was a nightmare for any sort of minority or non-conformist.

It just bewilders me that people are so busy looking to the middle east in absolute horror thinking that an influx of "strange cultures" from thousands of miles away are going to "change our way of life", and our media is so busy reporting on just that, that the very real, current and threatening revival of European fascism much closer to home is going almost completely un-noticed. Subtly in countries like ours (including Ireland and Scotland, sadly) but also quite openly and obviously in Eastern Europe. People are just ignoring it. The "never again" mantra from WWII has been proven to be almost hilarious levels of hot air. No one seems to give a **** that it's happening again.

[Niamh.]

The idea that an influx of Muslims is going to drag us backwards is just (unlikely) hypothesis, though. A bit of a distraction when we are currently, obviously and demonstrably, being dragged backwards by an uprising of 50+ year old white people who want to reverse the clock to the mid 20th century when women, to be honest, still weren't being treated particularly well and life was a nightmare for any sort of minority or non-conformist.

It just bewilders me that people are so busy looking to the middle east in absolute horror thinking that an influx of "strange cultures" from thousands of miles away are going to "change our way of life", and our media is so busy reporting on just that, that the very real, current and threatening revival of European fascism much closer to home is going almost completely un-noticed. Subtly in countries like ours (including Ireland and Scotland, sadly) but also quite openly and obviously in Eastern Europe. People are just ignoring it. The "never again" mantra from WWII has been proven to be almost hilarious levels of hot air. No one seems to give a **** that it's happening again.

I do understand what you're saying and I agree with you but I also agree with myself in that I will never demand that any religion get rights to state funds etc it's probably a bit different in the UK because religion didn't have as much of a strangle hold within the law but here we're still trying to get that s**t out of state and school so trying to get another religion recognised would be damaging to this objective imo

But at the same time I do agree with what you're saying too

[jaxie]

Personally I'm against all religions being a state anything, has no place there imo

Agree 100%.

[jaxie]

The idea that an influx of Muslims is going to drag us backwards is just (unlikely) hypothesis, though. A bit of a distraction when we are currently, obviously and demonstrably, being dragged backwards by an uprising of 50+ year old white people who want to reverse the clock to the mid 20th century when women, to be honest, still weren't being treated particularly well and life was a nightmare for any sort of minority or non-conformist.

It just bewilders me that people are so busy looking to the middle east in absolute horror thinking that an influx of "strange cultures" from thousands of miles away are going to "change our way of life", and our media is so busy reporting on just that, that the very real, current and threatening revival of European fascism much closer to home is going almost completely un-noticed. Subtly in countries like ours (including Ireland and Scotland, sadly) but also quite openly and obviously in Eastern Europe. People are just ignoring it. The "never again" mantra from WWII has been proven to be almost hilarious levels of hot air. No one seems to give a **** that it's happening again.

It bewilders me that the oppression of women and girls on that scale is so acceptable to some people in the name of a fantasy deity that men decide to speak for. :shrug:
How do you manage to confuse that with racism?

[DemolitionRed]

Britain is still seen as a Christian country.

A study by Pew Research that was done in 2010 which also predicted percentages in 2050 looked like this:

Christians: 2010: 64%, 2050: 45%

Muslims: 2010: 5%, 2050: 11%

Hindus: 2010: 1.4%, 2050: 2%

Jews: 2010: 0.5%, 2050: 0.3%

Buddhists: 2010: 0.4%, 2050: 0.9%

Folk religions: 2010: 0.1%, 2050: 0.3%

No religion: 2010: 28%, 2050: 39%

[DemolitionRed]

It bewilders me that the oppression of women and girls on that scale is so acceptable to some people in the name of a fantasy deity that men decide to speak for. :shrug:
How do you manage to confuse that with racism?

I don't think anyone is defending men who oppress women. What they are defending are womens rights. If we make false blanket statements that all Muslim women are oppressed and therefore we should ban the burka, we are unintentionally oppressing the women who are not abused and who choose to wear that garment.

Muslims are guilty of carrying out more FGM than any other religion but along the African continent, Christians also carry out this practice along with none religious tribes who see it as tradition; so if we want to fight such barbarities we can't just concentrate on Muslim populations.

[jaxie]

I don't think anyone is defending men who oppress women. What they are defending are womens rights. If we make false blanket statements that all Muslim women are oppressed and therefore we should ban the burka, we are unintentionally oppressing the women who are not abused and who choose to wear that garment.

Muslims are guilty of carrying out more FGM than any other religion but along the African continent, Christians also carry out this practice along with none religious tribes who see it as tradition; so if we want to fight such barbarities we can't just concentrate on Muslim populations.

Where did I say only one religion had issues?

There are no women's rights in the Muslim faith.

[Kizzy]

You do realise this is not the UK?....

'Islamization starts with a kebab' :/

'According to the last census, Islam has some 2,000 followers in Slovakia, Reuters reported, adding that there are no recognized mosques in the central European country. '

pointless and reactionary.

[Tozzie]

Britain is still seen as a Christian country.

A study by Pew Research that was done in 2010 which also predicted percentages in 2050 looked like this:

Christians: 2010: 64%, 2050: 45%

Muslims: 2010: 5%, 2050: 11%

Hindus: 2010: 1.4%, 2050: 2%

Jews: 2010: 0.5%, 2050: 0.3%

Buddhists: 2010: 0.4%, 2050: 0.9%

Folk religions: 2010: 0.1%, 2050: 0.3%

No religion: 2010: 28%, 2050: 39%

These figures are 2010

[DemolitionRed]

Where did I say only one religion had issues?

There are no women's rights in the Muslim faith.

Really! where did you hear this?

[DemolitionRed]

These figures are 2010

That's why I said in my post it was 2010! 2010 predictions to 2050

[Tozzie]

That's why I said in my post it was 2010! 2010 predictions to 2050

I reckon their predictions are way out

[Beso]

oh for christ sake....**** me.

So people have to prove this and that to get state benifits..


well its about time these gobbledook rligious nutters started proving god is real or whoever the stupid name is that they worship.

only fair.

[DemolitionRed]

I reckon their predictions are way out

Maybe so but its the closest predictions I could find.

[Withano]

I reckon their predictions are way out

I do too, i think 50-60% will be non-religious in 2050

[Niamh.]

I do too, i think 50-60% will be non-religious in 2050

Hopefully

[jaxie]

Really! where did you hear this?

Where did you hear there are?

[Glenn.]

Religion should be abolished right across the world. No place in this world for such nonsense

[jaxie]

Religion should be abolished right across the world. No place in this world for such nonsense

I agree in a sense though where religion does give comfort it is hard to take that from people who need it. However I think that religion should be governed strictly by the other rules of society, particularly regarding discrimination and religious uniforms. It should have no official place in society, politics or education. It should only be allowed to be taught where a balanced view is given.

[Brother Leon]

Lol at telling anyone what they should or shouldn't believe in. Atheist shouters sound as bad as the religion nutters. Leave people to believe and practice what they want to as long as it causes you no harm.

[Denver]

Make every believe in Buddhism

[Withano]

Lol at telling anyone what they should or shouldn't believe in. Atheist shouters sound as bad as the religion nutters. Leave people to believe and practice what they want to as long as it causes you no harm.

Agreed

[smudgie]

Lol at telling anyone what they should or shouldn't believe in. Atheist shouters sound as bad as the religion nutters. Leave people to believe and practice what they want to as long as it causes you no harm.

:clap2: live and let live.

[Niamh.]

Lol at telling anyone what they should or shouldn't believe in. Atheist shouters sound as bad as the religion nutters. Leave people to believe and practice what they want to as long as it causes you no harm.
I just think it should be seperate from state and education

[Alf]

God is great and powerful.

But he always seems to be short of a bob or two. Forever on the bleeding scrounge.

[Glenn.]

Lol at telling anyone what they should or shouldn't believe in. Atheist shouters sound as bad as the religion nutters. Leave people to believe and practice what they want to as long as it causes you no harm.

You say this but you know... ISIS

[user104658]

It bewilders me that the oppression of women and girls on that scale is so acceptable to some people in the name of a fantasy deity that men decide to speak for. :shrug:
How do you manage to confuse that with racism?

Because it implies that the majority of Muslims are the "stereotypical tabloid muslim" which is, simply, false. The vast majority of Muslims don't "oppress their women and girls" any more than any other group. That's pretty much standard in the definition of racism, isn't it? Believing negative stereotypes?

Secondly it all plays into the hysteria that "so many Muslims are pouring in!!!" that it's in any way likely to significantly alter the status quo of the whole country. Which is just nonsensical. Especially when - as I said - the fastest growing group is in fact the non-religious.

Thirdly, the worrying trend recently for backwards thinking, and the very real resurgence in active fascism in countries much closer to home, IS an active and ongoing threat to "our values and way of life" but no one seems to care. Too distracted by the scary brown people, I suppose.

[Withano]

You say this but you know... ISIS

Nobody should be allowed to have faith in a higher being because ISIS. Makes sense.

[Glenn.]

Nobody should be allowed to have faith in a higher being because ISIS. Makes sense.

ISIS is about because of religion

[Lostie!]

Lol at telling anyone what they should or shouldn't believe in. Atheist shouters sound as bad as the religion nutters. Leave people to believe and practice what they want to as long as it causes you no harm.

:clap1: :clap1:

[Brillopad]

Leave people to believe and practice what they want to as long as it causes you no harm.

Maybe that could work if those people believing and practicing what they want weren't going round threatening to kill all 'non-believers' and in their own country. The arrogance of such people is astounding.

Their attitude is harmful, maybe not to you as a man, but to Muslim and non-Muslim women alike. Any religion with such beliefs cannot be allowed to prosper in the West.

[Withano]

ISIS is about because of religion

So?.. your problem should be with ISIS, not with religion. You should be able to separate the two things, literally everybody else can.

[Brillopad]

So?.. your problem should be with ISIS, not with religion. You should be able to separate the two things, literally everybody else can.

Religous doctrine created ISIS. It allowed/encouraged men to interpret its religous views of 'female modesty' in such a way as to make it accepable to imprison and control them to achieve it. Religous doctrine sowed that seed in my opinion.

[Denver]

ISIS is about because of religion

The bible also tells people to kill

[Withano]

Religous doctrine created ISIS. It allowed/encouraged men to interpret its religous views of 'female modesty' in such a way as to make it accepable to imprison and control them to achieve it. Religous doctrine sowed that seed in my opinion.

This isnt relevant to the point anybody was making..

but since you brought it up, do you think the worst thing about ISIS is their treatment of females?

[Brillopad]

This isnt relevant to the point anybody was making..

but since you brought it up, do you think the worst thing about ISIS is their treatment of females?

It's up there unless you consider stoning women/girls to death for alleged adultery, or any other excuse they can find, as not one of the worst.

I made the mistake of watching such a stoning on u-tube - those men are savages who abused that poor 17 year-old in more ways than one. Animals.

[Glenn.]

So?.. your problem should be with ISIS, not with religion. You should be able to separate the two things, literally everybody else can.

You kinda missed my point but ok.

The bible also tells people to kill

I wouldn't know, I haven't read it. I have a brain in my head.

[Withano]

You kinda missed my point but ok.

.

Your point is ridic. I didnt miss it at all. Your point is ISIS is about because of religion, therefore all religions dont have a place in the world, and that point is ridic.

[Glenn.]

Your point is ridic. I didnt miss it at all. Your point is ISIS is about because of religion, therefore all religions dont have a place in the world, and that point is ridic.

Religion shouldn't have a place anywhere imo. A glorified fairytale that has far too much power in this world.

[Withano]

Religion shouldn't have a place anywhere imo. A glorified fairytale that has far too much power in this world.

Its not your place to say that a stranger can not have faith in a higher being. Its frankly weird that you presumed otherwise.

[Glenn.]

It's not my fault people look to the skies for support from a make believe man

[Brillopad]

Its not your place to say that a stranger can not have faith in a higher being. Its frankly weird that you presumed otherwise.

Some 'higher' being.

[Withano]

It's not my fault people look to the skies for support from a make believe man

Its also not your place to tell these people how to live their life, but here we are.

[Glenn.]

Not your place to tell me what's my place either.

[Withano]

Not your place to tell me what's my place either.

"Hey, don't tell me not to dictate, its mean"

[jennyjuniper]

If you want to hear a really intelligent, sensible and logical muslim woman give her point of view, may I suggest you watch 'Raheel Raza, one law for all - islam in a secular democracy' on Youtube. This is a muslim lady who has lived in Canada for many years and she is brilliant.

[Brother Leon]

I just think it should be seperate from state and education

You say this but you know... ISIS

Maybe that could work if those people believing and practicing what they want weren't going round threatening to kill all 'non-believers' and in their own country. The arrogance of such people is astounding.

Their attitude is harmful, maybe not to you as a man, but to Muslim and non-Muslim women alike. Any religion with such beliefs cannot be allowed to prosper in the West.

There is a difference between this and the constant comments here or elsewhere that puts down anyone who wants to believe in a religion.

Also, there are numerous reasons for ISIS..it isn't just as simple as "Oh. They are religious, that's why", but that's a whole other topic.

[Tozzie]

Lol at telling anyone what they should or shouldn't believe in. Atheist shouters sound as bad as the religion nutters. Leave people to believe and practice what they want to as long as it causes you no harm.

This..............I have my belief which comforts me but a little prayer before bed is all I want to do, I don't feel the need to go to church or shout at at anyone who doesn't agree with me, my belief is my business as long as I don't harm anyone., others disbelief is their business too.

[Mystic Mock]

Exactly, it's so blatantly a way to have power over people and control

With regards to the BIB in the first paragraph as a woman I think that's a silly thing to say when you look at how women are treated in some religions although that probably has more to do with culture than the actual religion I think

BIB, controversially I think that religion and the country's culture kind of come hand in hand.

[jaxie]

Because it implies that the majority of Muslims are the "stereotypical tabloid muslim" which is, simply, false. The vast majority of Muslims don't "oppress their women and girls" any more than any other group. That's pretty much standard in the definition of racism, isn't it? Believing negative stereotypes?

Secondly it all plays into the hysteria that "so many Muslims are pouring in!!!" that it's in any way likely to significantly alter the status quo of the whole country. Which is just nonsensical. Especially when - as I said - the fastest growing group is in fact the non-religious.

Thirdly, the worrying trend recently for backwards thinking, and the very real resurgence in active fascism in countries much closer to home, IS an active and ongoing threat to "our values and way of life" but no one seems to care. Too distracted by the scary brown people, I suppose.

Aren't religions which promote an idealogy from over a thousand years ago, when women were considered property all oppressive?

Is not the covering of a woman, because she will incite men to desire not a serious oppression of women?

How many female Imams are there in mainstream Islam? How many female roman catholic cardinals?

Again with the brown people. You seem to have much more of an issue with peoples colour than I do. :shrug:

[jaxie]

Not your place to tell me what's my place either.

:clap2:

[Brother Leon]

Maybe that could work if those people believing and practicing what they want weren't going round threatening to kill all 'non-believers' and in their own country. The arrogance of such people is astounding.

Their attitude is harmful, maybe not to you as a man, but to Muslim and non-Muslim women alike. Any religion with such beliefs cannot be allowed to prosper in the West.

You are acting like any religious group of people go around doing this. It's not black and white or that simple.

Hell, Let's take a look at another extremist group in Hezbollah that is labelled a terrorist organisation by many of the western world, but is one of the biggest fighters against the ISIS force.

https://www.indymedia.org.uk/images/2010/10/466379.jpg


http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb397/Richard_Edmondson/hez5_zps4d98a59f.jpg

http://www.mintpressnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/AP100903118725.jpg

https://dxczjjuegupb.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Hezbollah-fighter-with-an-image-of-the-Holy-Theotokos.jpg

https://dxczjjuegupb.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/image3.jpg

https://dxczjjuegupb.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/image2.jpg

Muslim fighters/extremists/terrorists/whatever freeing Christian villages and saving their places of worship and Women that aren't covered all in black waving their flag and looking....happy... what the? :o

[Glenn.]

I just can't comprehend someone believing in basically, a fairytale. That's what it is. Extremely exaggerated/ completely made up events with an unholy amount of power and persuasion. It's nonsensical to me.

[Tozzie]

I just can't comprehend someone believing in basically, a fairytale. That's what it is. Extremely exaggerated/ completely made up events with an unholy amount of power and persuasion. It's nonsensical to me.

no one persuaded me to have my belief, I choose to because it helps me get through life, I'm sure you wouldn't want to take that away from me. I can never comprehend why people who don't believe get so mad and frustrated about the fact some people do believe :shrug:

[Glenn.]

Because it's not real...

[Mystic Mock]

Because it's not real...

Does it really bother you though if they're doing no harm?

ISIS I can understand people going ballistic about as I do with people that hated other terrorist groups motivated by Religion, but I don't get why you'd have an issue with someone believing in a higher being if it's just their own beliefs.

[Tozzie]

Because it's not real...

ok Glenn but I am still going to :worship: :laugh:

[Glenn.]

Suppose not. Religion has spread lot of negative stuff into the world. Poisonous stuff in some cases. That's why it needs abolishing.

[RichardG]

I just can't comprehend someone believing in basically, a fairytale. That's what it is. Extremely exaggerated/ completely made up events with an unholy amount of power and persuasion. It's nonsensical to me.

tbh

[Tozzie]

Suppose not. Religion has spread lot of negative stuff into the world. Poisonous stuff in some cases. That's why it needs abolishing.

but I don't spread poison or negativity, I spread nothing but love and care :bawling:

[Mystic Mock]

Suppose not. Religion has spread lot of negative stuff into the world. Poisonous stuff in some cases. That's why it needs abolishing.

I agree with you that Religion has spread alot of negative policies onto people, but that's the problem with anything that's involved in Politics and that's the main thing that would help Religion is to get it out of Politics because the loonies at the top will want any country to become a nation of said Religion.

Basically you take the political power away from Religion and you'd probably see it be alot more positive to everyone once the initial backlash from the Religious groups stopped.

[Glenn.]

but I don't spread poison or negativity, I spread nothing but love and care :bawling:

its not god spreading love and care though, it's you.

[Glenn.]

By that I mean why does anyone need god to spread love and peace and care and whatnot. Just being a decent human being is enough

[Lostie!]

its not god spreading love and care though, it's you.

So ... a religious person channels their belief into something positive and that's completely independent of their religion, but when others use it to spread hatred the religion is completely responsible?

[Glenn.]

So ... a religious person channels their belief into something positive and that's completely independent of their religion, but when others use it to spread hatred the religion is completely responsible?

But they do in the name of their god. Specifically state they are doing in the name of their god. A make believe god that doesn't exist.

[Glenn.]

I know what I mean

[Withano]

I know what I mean

Suppose that makes one

[Glenn.]

Anyway

[Brillopad]

Suppose that makes one

Two at least.

[Kizzy]

A make believe god? .....

[Brillopad]

By that I mean why does anyone need god to spread love and peace and care and whatnot. Just being a decent human being is enough

I agree. Doing 'good deeds' with the intention of receiving some kind of 'higher reward' is simply looking after one's own interests. It has nothing to do with being a caring person.

The decent human beings you speak of genuinely care with no thought of reward in some imagined after-life. There is a big difference.

[Cherie]

There is a difference between this and the constant comments here or elsewhere that puts down anyone who wants to believe in a religion.

Also, there are numerous reasons for ISIS..it isn't just as simple as "Oh. They are religious, that's why", but that's a whole other topic.

:clap1:

[Kizzy]

There's also a misconception that if you are not part of a recognised religion you are an atheist :/

[Marsh.]

God is great and powerful.

But he always seems to be short of a bob or two. Forever on the bleeding scrounge.

Money is man made. :nono:

[Marsh.]

Here for this though. Sounds amazing. :love:

[Glenn.]

A make believe god? .....

Well isn't it then?

[AnnieK]

Religion itself doesn't cause wars or hatred....People use their interpretation as reason to commit heinous acts. "God" or whatever deity people believe in become an excuse. Most people who believe in religion do so for the right reasons but there are exceptions in all religions who will use it to justify their own actions. Religion brings peace and comfort to many.

[Brillopad]

A religious belief is simply an idea, a thought, an opinion. It isn't something that can be measured or proven. It never will be and therefore has no right to any kind of special consideration . It only exists in some people's minds. It certainly has no right to be considered untouchable, undebateable or beyond criticism.

Yes it gives people comfort but when it is used as a way to control people or gives people reason to hate others who don't believe in the same - it becomes dangerous and more trouble than it's worth in my opinion.

[Marsh.]

Religion itself doesn't cause wars or hatred....People use their interpretation as reason to commit heinous acts. "God" or whatever deity people believe in become an excuse. Most people who believe in religion do so for the right reasons but there are exceptions in all religions who will use it to justify their own actions. Religion brings peace and comfort to many.

:clap1: :clap1: :clap1:

[Glenn.]

A religious belief is simply an idea, a thought, an opinion. It isn't something that can be measured or proven. It never will be and therefore has no right to any kind of special consideration . It only exists in some people's minds.

Yes it gives people comfort but when it is used as a way to control people or gives people reason to hate others who don't believe in the same - it becomes dangerous and more trouble than it's worth in my opinion.

I couldn't have put it better myself.

[Lostie!]

Religion itself doesn't cause wars or hatred....People use their interpretation as reason to commit heinous acts. "God" or whatever deity people believe in become an excuse. Most people who believe in religion do so for the right reasons but there are exceptions in all religions who will use it to justify their own actions. Religion brings peace and comfort to many.

:clap2: :clap2:

A religious belief is simply an idea, a thought, an opinion. It isn't something that can be measured or proven..

And by the same token, disproven. Not believing in it is all fine and well, actively lambasting and mocking people for believing in it (and using that to make unfair aspersions on their character) is something else entirely and nothing more than small-minded bigotry, something that people ironically like to exclusively blame religion for.

Yes it gives people comfort but when it is used as a way to control people or gives people reason to hate others who don't believe in the same - it becomes dangerous and more trouble than it's worth in my opinion.

I think the same can be said for some anti-religious sentiments.

[Glenn.]

I don't hate religious people. I just judge their intelligence.

Annie's avatar is a prime example. Devout Christians believe God made the Earth in 7 days. He didn't. It literally took millions of years to make the earth and a few million more years before there were the tiniest specks of life on it.

[Glenn.]

The gross thing about it is, I was taught that in school at a really young age. I was lead to believe that a magic man in the sky made the world I lived on. In a week. Its damaging.

[Brillopad]

:clap2: :clap2:



And by the same token, disproven. Not believing in it is all fine and well, actively lambasting and mocking people for believing in it (and using that to make unfair aspersions on their character) is something else entirely and nothing more than small-minded bigotry, something that people ironically like to exclusively blame religion for.



I think the same can be said for some anti-religious sentiments.

I think people only mock it because of how many abuse it. People use religion in many negative ways whilst at the same time trying to wave some kind of flag of moral superiority.

Many want special considerations because of their beliefs and many don't just quietly believe in what they believe - they want to shove it down everyone else's throats - hence it becomes problematic for others. Why should everyone simply respect what goes on in the minds of others when they have their own different thoughts.

Those that make a big song and dance about it are the least real in my opinion.

[Kizzy]

Well isn't it then?

Isn't what a make believe god? ... There is only one.

[Withano]

Religion itself doesn't cause wars or hatred....People use their interpretation as reason to commit heinous acts. "God" or whatever deity people believe in become an excuse. Most people who believe in religion do so for the right reasons but there are exceptions in all religions who will use it to justify their own actions. Religion brings peace and comfort to many.

Excellent post

[jaxie]

Two at least.

Three.

[jaxie]

:clap2: :clap2:



And by the same token, disproven. Not believing in it is all fine and well, actively lambasting and mocking people for believing in it (and using that to make unfair aspersions on their character) is something else entirely and nothing more than small-minded bigotry, something that people ironically like to exclusively blame religion for.



I think the same can be said for some anti-religious sentiments.

The only one who seems to be making unfair aspersions and name calling is you. :shrug:

[jaxie]

Isn't what a make believe god? ... There is only one.

How can you know? No one has ever been able to produce any proof.

[DemolitionRed]

Where did you hear there are?

I've got a lot of experience of living amongst Muslims. I used to live in Iran and so had plenty opportunity of seeing a woman's rights with my own eyes.

There are countries where majority Muslims are extremely hard on their women but there are countries where majority Muslims are not at all hard on their women. We can't or shouldn't put out blanket statements that its "all" Muslims.

[Kizzy]

How can you know? No one has ever been able to produce any proof.

Are you suggesting the Christian and Islamist gods are two separate entities?

[Livia]

I think we're pretty quick to forget, though, that Christians / Westerners didn't treat women (or homosexuals, or ethnic minorities) all that differently less than a century ago... and really no differently at all 150 years ago (the whole thing, from rights, to how much flesh women were allowed to show). The entire world doesn't, and never has, progressed at a uniform rate. We move on, and then are outraged when the rest of the world - which has not had the same time nor opportunity to culturally develop - is not on exactly the same page at exactly the same time.

And that's without even going into the horrible reality that we currently seem to be majorly back-sliding.

I've highlighted the operative phrase. It's a backward thinking religion that treats women like second class citizens, sell off female children as brides, kill women they think offend the family etc. etc. etc...... and I don't want it spreading until they can address that.

Lumping Islam in with other religions that have evolved to be inclusive of women... even if that inclusion isn't perfect yet... is offensive. But then. religious people are allowed to be targeted because people who don't believe can't understand them.

[jaxie]

I've got a lot of experience of living amongst Muslims. I used to live in Iran and so had plenty opportunity of seeing a woman's rights with my own eyes.

Salam! That's very interesting, how did you come to live in Iran and when were you there? How did you get along under Sharia law? A good friend of mine works as a journalist for an Iranian news organisation.

There are countries where majority Muslims are extremely hard on their women but there are countries where majority Muslims are not at all hard on their women. We can't or shouldn't put out blanket statements that its "all" Muslims.

Saying a group of men are not hard on women doesn't really sound that confidence building to me. A not having someone be hard on them doesn't necessarily indicate that they have the same freedoms we enjoy.

[jaxie]

I've highlighted the operative phrase. It's a backward thinking religion that treats women like second class citizens, sell off female children as brides, kill women they think offend the family etc. etc. etc...... and I don't want it spreading until they can address that.

Lumping Islam in with other religions that have evolved to be inclusive of women... even if that inclusion isn't perfect yet... is offensive. But then. religious people are allowed to be targeted because people who don't believe can't understand them.

I think for me the problem is more about religion creating rules for people to live by, often rules that include what amounts to child trafficking, cruelty, abuse, leaving women stuck in miserable lives with no recourse to escape, as you mention in your first para. Many religions seem to think that we have not progressed a thousand years and do not belong in the modern world.

Where religion doesn't interfere and gives comfort and attempts to modernise then it isn't an issue though I agree I do not particularly understand faith.

[Kizzy]

I've highlighted the operative phrase. It's a backward thinking religion that treats women like second class citizens, sell off female children as brides, kill women they think offend the family etc. etc. etc...... and I don't want it spreading until they can address that.

Lumping Islam in with other religions that have evolved to be inclusive of women... even if that inclusion isn't perfect yet... is offensive. But then. religious people are allowed to be targeted because people who don't believe can't understand them.

You do realise this is an Islamophobic comment don't you? Every religion has it's fundamentalists, even yours.

Again here we have the premise that if you are not religious you are a non believer which is totally wrong.

[Brillopad]

Are you suggesting the Christian and Islamist gods are two separate entities?

Supporters of Islam do.

[Kizzy]

Supporters of Islam do.

That's not what I asked... And how do you know this?

[Brillopad]

You do realise this is an Islamophobic comment don't you? Every religion has it's fundamentalists, even yours.

An belief/idea is not a fact and therefore open to criticism. Stop trying to close down criticism of dictorial religions. It is not your right to do so.

[Brillopad]

That's not what I asked... And how do you know this?

They shout it often enough.

[jaxie]

You do realise this is an Islamophobic comment don't you? Every religion has it's fundamentalists, even yours.

Again here we have the premise that if you are not religious you are a non believer which is totally wrong.

How is that an islamaphobic comment? Livia has a faith, she is speaking about the attitudes of non believers to those of faith. I think you owe her an apology.

[DemolitionRed]

Salam! That's very interesting, how did you come to live in Iran and when were you there? How did you get along under Sharia law? A good friend of mine works as a journalist for an Iranian news organisation.

Saying a group of men are not hard on women doesn't really sound that confidence building to me. A not having someone be hard on them doesn't necessarily indicate that they have the same freedoms we enjoy.

I married an Iranian and lived for a while in Masuleh. Our first son was born in Iran. My husband wasn't Muslim, he was a Christian but that didn't stop our Muslim friends making us welcome in their home. Most of them were Muslim by name only. They drank alcohol and smoked. The only fanatics I met were more of a nuisance to everyone than anything else but then we didn't live in Tehran which is a very different kettle of fish.

The women in Iran don't have the same freedoms we have in the West because they have a religious government who put huge restrictions on women. Most Iranian women living in France and the UK don't cover or abide by all that religious bollocks inflicted on them by state rule in their own land and their husbands are happy for them to have that freedom.

So what news organization is it? I follow Iranian news regularly for obvious reasons.

[Kizzy]

An belief/idea is not a fact and therefore open to criticism. Stop trying to close down criticism of dictorial religions. It is not your right to do so.


This is a debate forum, I have every right to speak as I find. You are under no obligation to respond.

[Brillopad]

I married an Iranian and lived for a while in Masuleh. Our first son was born in Iran. My husband wasn't Muslim, he was a Christian but that didn't stop our Muslim friends making us welcome in their home. Most of them were Muslim by name only. They drank alcohol and smoked. The only fanatics I met were more of a nuisance to everyone than anything else but then we didn't live in Tehran which is a very different kettle of fish.

The women in Iran don't have the same freedoms we have in the West because they have a religious government who put huge restrictions on women. Most Iranian women living in France and the UK don't cover or abide by all that religious bollocks inflicted on them by state rule in their own land and their husbands are happy for them to have that freedom.

So what news organization is it? I follow Iranian news regularly for obvious reasons.

I'm not trying to be argumentative here but what if their husbands were not happy for them to have that freedom - isn't that the crux of the matter?

[Kizzy]

How is that an islamaphobic comment? Livia has a faith, she is speaking about the attitudes of non believers to those of faith. I think you owe her an apology.

I'm sure that is obvious to most, if Livia requires clarification I'm sure she'll ask. You needed police my comments.

It is based on an assumption that non religious are also non believers, no apology is necessary.

[jaxie]

I married an Iranian and lived for a while in Masuleh. Our first son was born in Iran. My husband wasn't Muslim, he was a Christian but that didn't stop our Muslim friends making us welcome in their home. Most of them were Muslim by name only. They drank alcohol and smoked. The only fanatics I met were more of a nuisance to everyone than anything else but then we didn't live in Tehran which is a very different kettle of fish.

The women in Iran don't have the same freedoms we have in the West because they have a religious government who put huge restrictions on women. Most Iranian women living in France and the UK don't cover or abide by all that religious bollocks inflicted on them by state rule in their own land and their husbands are happy for them to have that freedom.

So what news organization is it? I follow Iranian news regularly for obvious reasons.

It sounds quite liberal. My friend tells me people in Iran are very friendly though many a time has sat in a hot place having dinner with couples where the men can roll up their shirt sleeves and the women aren't allowed to take off their jackets so have to sit and sweat but that could very well be a rule of the restaurant or the husbands involved, I've no way of knowing, just passing on what I was told.

But if it is more liberal than we think why did they arrest the young people who made the video to Pharrell Williams's "Happy"? It looks pretty harmless to me. Seems a bit strange. :think: I wonder actually what happened to them.

Posted because it's joyful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tg5qdIxVcz8

Oh I'm not going to quote where my friend works without her permission, it's not really relevant beyond saying she works as a journalist for an Iranian news organisation.

[user104658]

I'm not trying to be argumentative here but what if their husbands were not happy for them to have that freedom - isn't that the crux of the matter?
That's a totally meaningless statement though? What if they WERE happy for them to have that freedom? As many definitely are?

You just assume that all Muslim husbands want their wives controlled because you have a cartoon character image in your head of over a billion people.

Are you genuinely unaware that there are still plenty of Christian men who feel that the woman's place is in the home, etc etc? This was a pretty common view 50/60 years ago and a HUGE number of the older generation believe it to this day. The whole idea of "The Man Of The House" is far from gone from western mindsets.

[Brillopad]

That's a totally meaningless statement though? What if they WERE happy for them to have that freedom? As many definitely are?

You just assume that all Muslim husbands want their wives controlled because you have a cartoon character image in your head of over a billion people.

Are you genuinely unaware that there are still plenty of Christian men who feel that the woman's place is in the home, etc etc? This was a pretty common view 50/60 years ago and a HUGE number of the older generation believe it to this day. The whole idea of "The Man Of The House" is far from gone from western mindsets.

Of course I'm aware of that - I'm a woman I have lived it but for many women it feels like such attitudes are here again with this religion constantly trying to challenge our place in the world. In the modern world these kind of 'beliefs' aren't tolerated with racism and homosexuality and shouldn't be tolerated with sexism.

It's like a black cloud of discrimination against women descending once again.

[jaxie]

That's a totally meaningless statement though? What if they WERE happy for them to have that freedom? As many definitely are?

You just assume that all Muslim husbands want their wives controlled because you have a cartoon character image in your head of over a billion people.

Are you genuinely unaware that there are still plenty of Christian men who feel that the woman's place is in the home, etc etc? This was a pretty common view 50/60 years ago and a HUGE number of the older generation believe it to this day. The whole idea of "The Man Of The House" is far from gone from western mindsets.

That's quite true, and don't get me started on the Roman Catholic's or we will be here all day. Though they don't actually make them cover up from head to foot and maintain they are meant to cast down their eyes as well to their feet. :shrug:

I should also add I have nothing against individual Catholics, brown, green, purple or not, before you start implying.

[user104658]

It has in general but for many women it feels like such attitudes are here again with this religion constantly trying to challenge our place in the world. These kind of 'beliefs' aren't tolerated with racism and homosexuality and shouldn't be tolerated with sexism.

It's like a black cloud of discrimination against women descending once again.

This has absolutely nothing to do with Islam and everything to do with the backlash against feminism from western people. Trump voting, Brexit craving, wish-it-was-still-like-the-old-days fish 'n' chips regressionists desperately trying to drag us all back to the union jack waving 50's.

Well guess what.

Women were still second class citizens in the 50's.

:idc:

[Kizzy]

That's quite true, and don't get me started on the Roman Catholic's or we will be here all day. Though they don't actually make them cover up from head to foot and maintain they are meant to cast down their eyes as well to their feet. :shrug:

I should also add I have nothing against individual Catholics, brown, green, purple or not, before you start implying.

'Currently, 62 percent of Slovakia's 5.4 million population are declared Roman Catholics.'

From the article in the OP... what was that about repressing women?

[user104658]

That's quite true, and don't get me started on the Roman Catholic's or we will be here all day. Though they don't actually make them cover up from head to foot and maintain they are meant to cast down their eyes as well to their feet. :shrug:.

No, but nor do most Muslims. The vast majority of Muslim women in the west wear modern clothing and may or may not cover their hair - many don't even do that.

There are SOME more strict and backwards groups that have their women covered up and hidden away. But it would also be true to say that there are still some niche Christian groups that DO insist their women are covered "neck to toe" in "modest" clothing, just without the face and head covering. These groups aren't common but they exist.

Likewise, modern Muslims who wear normal western clothing - both male and female - are far more common than the alternative. You just don't notice those Muslims because they "look like normal folks" and are not news worthy. Depending on where you live, you probably walk past hundreds of Muslims every day, but you'll only notice the ones that "stand out" as being not the norm. Don't assume that they are representative of the majority!

[jaxie]

I'm sure that is obvious to most, if Livia requires clarification I'm sure she'll ask. You needed police my comments.

It is based on an assumption that non religious are also non believers, no apology is necessary.

It's been mentioned enough times for me to notice. :shrug: I'd call out anyone who said the same thing.

[jaxie]

No, but nor do most Muslims. The vast majority of Muslim women in the west wear modern clothing and may or may not cover their hair - many don't even do that.

There are SOME more strict and backwards groups that have their women covered up and hidden away. But it would also be true to say that there are still some niche Christian groups that DO insist their women are covered "neck to toe" in "modest" clothing, just without the face and head covering. These groups aren't common but they exist.

Likewise, modern Muslims who wear normal western clothing - both male and female - are far more common than the alternative. You just don't notice those Muslims because they "look like normal folks" and are not news worthy. Depending on where you live, you probably walk past hundreds of Muslims every day, but you'll only notice the ones that "stand out" as being not the norm. Don't assume that they are representative of the majority!

It is in the Quran.

[Brillopad]

This has absolutely nothing to do with Islam and everything to do with the backlash against feminism from western people. Trump voting, Brexit craving, wish-it-was-still-like-the-old-days fish 'n' chips regressionists desperately trying to drag us all back to the union jack waving 50's.

Well guess what.

Women were still second class citizens in the 50's.

:idc:

We are not in the 50s. Valuing our culture has nothing to do with wanting to regress to a time where women were second-class citizens. That is an entirely different subject.

As far as I am concerned people can believe in whatever they like ( it's just an idea at that stage nothing more) but if such beliefs in female inequality include the waving of a flag demonstrating such beliefs on a public street in a country where female equality is written into its laws it becomes a hate crime and should be treated as such.

[Brillopad]

It is in the Quran.

It is indeed- which speaks volumes for me.

[jaxie]

'Currently, 62 percent of Slovakia's 5.4 million population are declared Roman Catholics.'

From the article in the OP... what was that about repressing women?

Are you speaking in tongues?

[Kizzy]

Are you speaking in tongues?

You said you had an issue with Roman Catholics... Well 62% of Slovakia ( the subject of the article in the OP) are Roman Catholic.

I'm presuming there's no call for a restriction of subsidy for that repressive religion, why would that be do you think?

[jaxie]

You said you had an issue with Roman Catholics... Well 62% of Slovakia ( the subject of the article in the OP) are Roman Catholic.

I'm presuming there's no call for a restriction of subsidy for that repressive religion, why would that be do you think?

Um, I already said that I hold the same views with regard most religions. Though Islam is more repressive.

I'll say it again, no religion should receive state subsidy's nor have any role in politics or education.

[Alf]

You do realise this is an Islamophobic comment don't you? Every religion has it's fundamentalists, even yours.

Again here we have the premise that if you are not religious you are a non believer which is totally wrong.A made up word, to creep blasphemy laws back into the West.

If you are a non-believer, then why would you believe in that word?

[Withano]

A made up word, to creep blasphemy laws back into the West.

If you are a non-believer, then why would you believe in that word?

Islamophobic, and hate-crimes are made up words that don't mean anything? Careful, Alf.. A pattern is starting to emerge.

[Alf]

Islamophobic, and hate-crimes are made up words that don't mean anything? Careful, Alf.. A pattern is starting to emerge.Do you believe there should be blasphemy laws?

[Withano]

Do you believe there should be blasphemy laws?

I'm not sure I'm seeing the connection. There's a difference between blasphamy and Islamophobia.

[Alf]

I'm not sure I'm seeing the connection. There's a difference between blasphamy and Islamophobia.What is that difference?

[Kizzy]

A made up word, to creep blasphemy laws back into the West.

If you are a non-believer, then why would you believe in that word?

We have hate laws... Are they not good enough?

For the 20th time I am NOT a non believer :/

[jaxie]

We have hate laws... Are they not good enough?

For the 20th time I am NOT a non believer :/

What are you then? :shrug:

[Alf]

We have hate laws... Are they not good enough?

For the 20th time I am NOT a non believer :/These hate laws, is it just certain things you're not allowed to hate, or are you not allowed to hate anything at all?

[Withano]

What is that difference?

You have access to the internet Alf. You can Google this yourself.

Blasphemy is taking Gods name in vain (not specific to any religion)
Islamophobia is the prejudice and hatred against a specific group of people

They are not similar, they are not connected. They are not made up words with no real meaning either.

[jaxie]

You have access to the internet Alf. You can Google this yourself.

Blasphemy is taking Gods name in vain (not specific to any religion)
Islamophobia is the prejudice and hatred against a specific group of people

They are not similar, they are not connected. They are not made up words with no real meaning either.

I've not seen anyone imply they hate any people, we've been discussing a religion and religions haven't we?

[Withano]

I've not seen anyone imply they hate any people, we've been discussing a religion and religions haven't we?

Stop jumping to conclusions Jaxie, nobody has suggested this, I'm having a convo with Alf because he was confused what the word meant. You can read this yourself. It would have taken 20 seconds.

[Kizzy]

What are you then? :shrug:

I'm a non religious believer if you must categorise me... Not that should make one iota of difference when it comes to responding to a thread.

Someone mentioned shooting down opinions earlier... jeeze :/

[jaxie]

Stop jumping to conclusions Jaxie, nobody has suggested this, I'm having a convo with Alf because he was confused what the word meant. You can read this yourself. It would have taken 20 seconds.

Well yes they have, a forum member was accused of Islamophobic remarks by Kizzy.

[Tom4784]

Seems like an hysterical fear to me, it's not going to happen. People are becoming less religious over time, the idea of a state religion would likely be abolished long before it would become Islam.

[jaxie]

I'm a non religious believer if you must categorise me... Not that should make one iota of difference when it comes to responding to a thread.

Someone mentioned shooting down opinions earlier... jeeze :/

Well you said you weren't, you also said you were, I was just wondering. :shrug:

[Withano]

Well yes they have, a forum member was accused of Islamophobic remarks by Kizzy.

Why are you including me in this because I explained what the word meant to somebody that didn't know.
Just seems like sniping/baiting.

[Kizzy]

Well you said you weren't, you also said you were, I was just wondering. :shrug:

I have never said I wasn't... Never.

[Kizzy]

Well yes they have, a forum member was accused of Islamophobic remarks by Kizzy.

And I stand by that accusation, I found the post exhibited a prejudice.

[Alf]

You have access to the internet Alf. You can Google this yourself.

Blasphemy is taking Gods name in vain (not specific to any religion)
Islamophobia is the prejudice and hatred against a specific group of people

They are not similar, they are not connected. They are not made up words with no real meaning either.What's the word for those that have prejudice and hatred against me? Should I make one up?

Alfophobia.

I don't want anymore Alfophobia on this forum, or I'm telling Josy.

[Kizzy]

Hey you should try being me.. If someone leaves the forum... if they have a bad day at work..if their cat dies....blame kiz :(

[Niamh.]

Kizlamaphobia

[Kizzy]

Kizlamaphobia

It's true.. it's a thing, the forum isn't as nice as it was, I can't insult people when I want...kiz won't let me be as rude as I like to her without reporting me...I loved some ranty ol bigot and he left because of kiz... It's a hate crime :(

[Brillopad]

You have access to the internet Alf. You can Google this yourself.

Blasphemy is taking Gods name in vain (not specific to any religion)
Islamophobia is the prejudice and hatred against a specific group of people

They are not similar, they are not connected. They are not made up words with no real meaning either.

Like Muslims hate Jews, Christians, other Muslims and non-believers for instance.

[jaxie]

It's true.. it's a thing, the forum isn't as nice as it was, I can't insult people when I want...kiz won't let me be as rude as I like to her without reporting me...I loved some ranty ol bigot and he left because of kiz... It's a hate crime :(

Really? :shrug:

[Brillopad]

What's the word for those that have prejudice and hatred against me? Should I make one up?

Alfophobia.

I don't want anymore Alfophobia on this forum, or I'm telling Josy.

:joker:

[jaxie]

Why are you including me in this because I explained what the word meant to somebody that didn't know.
Just seems like sniping/baiting.

How am I sniping and baiting? I said:

Originally Posted by jaxie View Post
I've not seen anyone imply they hate any people, we've been discussing a religion and religions haven't we?

Stop jumping to conclusions Jaxie, nobody has suggested this, I'm having a convo with Alf because he was confused what the word meant. You can read this yourself. It would have taken 20 seconds.

You replied and I pointed out that someone had called someone Islamophobic, that it wasn't a conclusion. Do you expect to respond directly to me, accuse me of jumping to conclusions, sniping and baiting and I'm not allowed to respond? What am I supposed to sit here while you listen to yourself type and read your own rhetoric?

[Withano]

Like Muslims hate Jews, Christians, other Muslims and non-believers for instance.

That generalisation you just made is genuinely islamophobic. Why do you present yourself like this.

[Withano]

How am I sniping and baiting? I said:

Originally Posted by jaxie View Post
I've not seen anyone imply they hate any people, we've been discussing a religion and religions haven't we?



You replied and I pointed out that someone had called someone Islamophobic, that it wasn't a conclusion. Do you explect to respond directing to me, accuse me of jumping to conclusions, sniping and baiting and I'm not allowed to respond? What am i supposed to sit here while you listen to yourself type and read your own rhetoric?

Why bring me up at all, unless you were baiting. Somebody was confused what the word meant, I replied. No idea what your intention was, but it came off baity.

[jaxie]

Why bring me up at all, unless you were baiting. Somebody was confused what the word meant, I replied. No idea what your intention was, but it came off baity.

I've just told you that.

[Withano]

I've just told you that.

Your intention was to interrupt a conversation which didnt involve you to start an argument lets not lie. Judgin by your sig, its not the first time you've actively tried to bait.

[jaxie]

Your intention was to interrupt a conversation which didnt involve you to start an argument lets not lie.

Your intention was to interrupt a conversation which didnt involve you to start an argument lets not lie. Judgin by your sig, its not the first time you've actively tried to bait.

It's a forum not a private conversation. You gave a definition of of the word, I said I didn't think anyone had been doing. How is that an argument? I am getting a little tired of the constant insults being put out. It's unneccessary and why can't you put across your point without name calling, calling people liars etc?

My sig was for quoting another user in a perfect acceptable context. I left it because it amuses me. I can't help that there is favouritism on this forum.

[Withano]

It's a forum not a private conversation. You gave a definition of of the word, I said I didn't think anyone had been doing. How is that an argument? I am getting a little tired of the constant insults being put out. It's unneccessary and if why can't you put across your point without name calling, calling people liars etc?

When have I name called. Christ.

I explained a word to somebody that didnt know what it meant and you chimed in with some irrelevant ****-stirring.

[jaxie]

When have I name called. Christ.

I explained a word to somebody that didnt know what it meant and you chimed in with some irrelevant ****-stirring.

If you read the actual context of the conversation you'd see that what I said was perfectly innocent.

[Withano]

If you read the actual context of the conversation you'd see that what I said was perfectly innocent.

I explained the word
You said you didnt think this applied to anybody, implying I thought otherwise
It was baity, like your sig was. You should be less baity in future.

[jaxie]

I explained the word
You said you didnt think this applied to anybody, implying I thought otherwise
It was baity, like your sig was. You should be less baity in future.

Because a few posts back Kizzy accused Livia of it and I didn't think it applied to what she had said which was perfectly innocent. I never implied anything at all about what you thought or didn't.

[Withano]

Because a few posts back Kizzy accused Livia of it and I didn't think it applied to what she had said which was perfectly innocent.

And that was relevant to me explaining the word to alf, how?

[jaxie]

And that was relevant to me explaining the word to alf, how?

Because that is how the word Islamophobe came up and you jumped right on into that conversation.

[Withano]

I'm done actually, respond if you like, I wont reply to your baitiness anymore.

[Brillopad]

That generalisation you just made is genuinely islamophobic. Why do you present yourself like this.

I know it doesn't apply to all Muslims but judging by the amount of women all over the world wearing tents, a haughty distain from many Muslims towards Western women who don't cover up and an increase in terrorist attacks across Europe there are large numbers that do hate.

[Brillopad]

Your intention was to interrupt a conversation which didnt involve you to start an argument lets not lie. Judgin by your sig, its not the first time you've actively tried to bait.

Says an old hand at it.

[Kizzy]

Like Muslims hate Jews, Christians, other Muslims and non-believers for instance.

Again with the Muslim bashing... It's becoming quite the issue in this section again :/

[Marsh.]

Now now children do I have to separate you into different rooms?

[Kizzy]

Now now children do I have to separate you into different rooms?

Speaking of different rooms don't you only appear in SD at the first sign of a disagreement?... Well, it's finished now so you can skip back to chat and games.

[user104658]

Speaking of different rooms don't you only appear in SD at the first sign of a disagreement?... Well, it's finished now so you can skip back to chat and games.
OH snap guuuuuuuurl

[Kizzy]

http://img.pandawhale.com/45948-oh-snap-gif-2EC9.gif

[Brillopad]

Again with the Muslim bashing... It's becoming quite the issue in this section again :/

Any religion can and should be questioned. Sounds like you are attempting to tell us what can and cannot be discussed.

[Mystic Mock]

I don't hate religious people. I just judge their intelligence.

Annie's avatar is a prime example. Devout Christians believe God made the Earth in 7 days. He didn't. It literally took millions of years to make the earth and a few million more years before there were the tiniest specks of life on it.

BIB, just because Christianity hasn't got the facts right still doesn't mean that there wasn't a higher being who did build Earth after millions of years, afterall it could've been many Gods that built Earth, or as some believe it could be the big bang that randomly generated life and supplies to help the animal kingdom survive. Or it really could just be one man or woman or some unknown gender but the facts were distorted.

[Marsh.]

Speaking of different rooms don't you only appear in SD at the first sign of a disagreement?... Well, it's finished now so you can skip back to chat and games.
And you can skip off that high horse my love.

A disagreement in the debate section? A rare sight indeed.

[user104658]

Get a room Marsh and Kizzy and Brillo.

[Marsh.]

I'd understand the defensiveness if my joke was even aimed at her.

[Lostie!]

The only one who seems to be making unfair aspersions and name calling is you. :shrug:

If that's what you believe then I highly suggest you make more effort to actually read the thread rather than just the parts that suit you :shrug:

[Glenn.]

BIB, just because Christianity hasn't got the facts right still doesn't mean that there wasn't a higher being who did build Earth after millions of years, afterall it could've been many Gods that built Earth, or as some believe it could be the big bang that randomly generated life and supplies to help the animal kingdom survive. Or it really could just be one man or woman or some unknown gender but the facts were distorted.

Sweetie no.

[Mystic Mock]

Sweetie no.

Why can't a higher being have created the Universe?

[jaxie]

If that's what you believe then I highly suggest you make more effort to actually read the thread rather than just the parts that suit you :shrug:

Clearly you haven't.

[RichardG]

Why can't a higher being have created the Universe?

for the same reason why i can't turn my water into wine after a long day at work

we are not living in a fantasy

[Lostie!]

Clearly you haven't.

I'm sure this will make sense if I look at it hard enough.

[Glenn.]

Why can't a higher being have created the Universe?

Because it's scientifically not possible

[Denver]

Brendan built the world end off

[Marsh.]

Because it's scientifically not possible
Silly us forgetting that scientific fact of where and how the universe first began.

[user104658]

Clearly you haven't.
That's u that is.

[user104658]

Brexit built the world end off

Not everything is about bloody Brexit ffs :fist:

[Withano]

I'm sure this will make sense if I look at it hard enough.

:joker:

[Withano]

Because it's scientifically not possible

You, nor the gratest scientific minds in the world, can not prove or disprove that.

[Glenn.]

You, nor the gratest scientific minds in the world, can not prove or disprove that.

Neither can religion. Based on what we do know it's more likely than a magic man in the sky though.

[Denver]

Doctor Who should know let me ask him next time he parks his tardis on my drive

[Withano]

Neither can religion. Based on what we do know it's more likely than a magic man in the sky though.

More likely than - perhaps, up to each individual to decide for themselves.

This is you backtracking though, it was a firm no from you before. Good for you.

[Brillopad]

Not everything is about bloody Brexit ffs :fist:

Forever known as the B word. :laugh:

[user104658]

Doctor Who should know let me ask him next time he parks his tardis on my drive
Doctor Who quite openly hints against the legitimacy of organised religion, tbh... And who can argue with that?

[Glenn.]

More likely than - perhaps, up to each individual to decide for themselves.

This is you backtracking though, it was a firm no from you before. Good for you.

Backtracking? I think I've made my point pretty clear throughout the thread?

You seem intent on challenging me on my point. Now I ask the same from you. How did the creation of the earth happen? I'll wait :)

[Brillopad]

You, nor the gratest scientific minds in the world, can not prove or disprove that.

They probably will one day. On the other hand God's, by whatever name, simply don't exist - it's just a state of mind.

[Withano]

They probably will one day. On the other hand God's, by whatever name, simply don't exist - it's just a state of mind.

But until, and unless that day comes, you can't prove any of those statements.

[Withano]

Backtracking? I think I've made my point pretty clear throughout the thread?

You seem intent on challenging me on my point. Now I ask the same from you. How did the creation of the earth happen? I'll wait :)

How would I, you, or the greatest scientific minds in the world possibly know the answer to that question.
I'll avoid attempting to answer so I don't look as daft as you have.

[AnnieK]

I have never and would never divulge my beliefs or lack of on a forum....but having spoken to people about the creation of earth.....Big bang theory etc.etc....Whilst maybe scientifically there is more leaning to science versus god.....A lot of people believe the god created earth 7 days story is not actual days as we know now.....There was never a chronological time put on it but the stags f the cation of earth. ..ie water land etc happened o er a period of time. You have to remember that if the Bible is believed it is little more than centuries of Chinese whispers until it was actually written down and therefore it could be interpreted many ways

[Marsh.]

Neither can religion.

"Religion" doesn't pretend to have proof though. It why they call it "faith". ;)

[Tozzie]

Religion itself doesn't cause wars or hatred....People use their interpretation as reason to commit heinous acts. "God" or whatever deity people believe in become an excuse. Most people who believe in religion do so for the right reasons but there are exceptions in all religions who will use it to justify their own actions. Religion brings peace and comfort to many.

I love this, my belief certainly brings me comfort

[Glenn.]

How would I, you, or the greatest scientific minds in the world possibly know the answer to that question.
I'll avoid attempting to answer so I don't look as daft as you have.

Definitley avoided it lol. You can't answer it because even though it isn't 100%, the theories of the earths creation are a damn sight more realistic than a man making it. You know... actual scientific evidence. Religion doesn't have that.

[Mystic Mock]

for the same reason why i can't turn my water into wine after a long day at work

we are not living in a fantasy

But you're talking about the Bible there, I'm just on about a higher being that created the Universe without any stories, hey Earth itself could be an experiment by Aliens for a TV Show like South Park joked about, you just never truly know.:laugh:

[Glenn.]

The existence of aliens is more realistic than a higher being.

[Marsh.]

The higher being could be an alien. :hee:

[Withano]

Definitley avoided it lol. You can't answer it because even though it isn't 100%, the theories of the earths creation are a damn sight more realistic than a man making it. You know... actual scientific evidence. Religion doesn't have that.

I love how theories are hard cold evidence

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by AnnieK
Religion itself doesn't cause wars or hatred....People use their interpretation as reason to commit heinous acts. "God" or whatever deity people believe in become an excuse. Most people who believe in religion do so for the right reasons but there are exceptions in all religions who will use it to justify their own actions. Religion brings peace and comfort to many.

This ^ Annie is exactly how I feel about religion,it's PEOPLE that use it as a weapon.

[Brillopad]

"Religion" doesn't pretend to have proof though. It why they call it "faith". ;)

Blind faith.

The problem is it is often used to control peoples' thoughts and therefore actions. Religion has been used as a weapon of abuse for centuries. Without it such abuse could not continue.

[JTM45]

The existence of aliens is more realistic than a higher being.

Absolutely!

The existence of life in the Universe other than humans on Earth is based on logic, common sense, reasoning and Scientific theory whereas the religious 'god' stories are cultural fiction mixed and matched to suit the particular agenda of each culture with each 'religion' denouncing the others in favour of their own which they all arrogantly claim is 'obviously' the ''one true god''.

It's obviously everyone's right as an individual to believe in whatever they choose to and should never be any other way but with the majority of religions they seem to be obsessed with trying to force their beliefs onto others against their will.
Why can't other religions manage themselves more like Bhuddism for example ? It has such positive messages compared to most others and is free of opression and judgement of others. All the positives without any of the negatives.

[user104658]

Organised religion can't be disproven but it is inherently illogical :shrug:. I mean, you can believe in pretty much anything if you want, but the inability to disprove it doesn't make it realistic and I honestly can think of no valid reason for people to have to shy away from saying that. And there does come a point of unlikelihood where it is valid to say that something is, for all intents and purposes, quite clearly false. Every organised religion falls under that heading. The concept of "some form of intelligent design that is completely unlike anything we have ever described or could ever even comprehend" is an unknown. That's not the same as saying "so Christians (or whoever) might be right!". Organised religions are man-made fictions, created to attempt to understand that which hasn't yet or can't be understood, and ultimately used to control. End of story, for me.

Now... My absolute MAIN issue with organised religion, is that it's entire existence hinges on the indoctrination of children from a young age. Without that aspect, religion simply ceases to exist in any major form. Religion continues by getting into the heads of the very young before they have developed the ability to use logic and reason (adolescence) and sets itself up as a major source of, strangely enough, both comfort AND fear, and once it's embedded in a brand new mind like that, the roots run deep. It becomes part of people's entire sense of self, the world, and existence entirely. It's not something that sits well with me, at all.

[Brillopad]

Organised religion can't be disproven but it is inherently illogical :shrug:. I mean, you can believe in pretty much anything if you want, but the inability to disprove it doesn't make it realistic and I honestly can think of no valid reason for people to have to shy away from saying that. And there does come a point of unlikelihood where it is valid to say that something is, for all intents and purposes, quite clearly false. Every organised religion falls under that heading. The concept of "some form of intelligent design that is completely unlike anything we have ever described or could ever even comprehend" is an unknown. That's not the same as saying "so Christians (or whoever) might be right!". Organised religions are man-made fictions, created to attempt to understand that which hasn't yet or can't be understood, and ultimately used to control. End of story, for me.

Now... My absolute MAIN issue with organised religion, is that it's entire existence hinges on the indoctrination of children from a young age. Without that aspect, religion simply ceases to exist in any major form. Religion continues by getting into the heads of the very young before they have developed the ability to use logic and reason (adolescence) and sets itself up as a major source of, strangely enough, both comfort AND fear, and once it's embedded in a brand new mind like that, the roots run deep. It becomes part of people's entire sense of self, the world, and existence entirely. It's not something that sits well with me, at all.

Excellent post.

[jaxie]

Organised religion can't be disproven but it is inherently illogical :shrug:. I mean, you can believe in pretty much anything if you want, but the inability to disprove it doesn't make it realistic and I honestly can think of no valid reason for people to have to shy away from saying that. And there does come a point of unlikelihood where it is valid to say that something is, for all intents and purposes, quite clearly false. Every organised religion falls under that heading. The concept of "some form of intelligent design that is completely unlike anything we have ever described or could ever even comprehend" is an unknown. That's not the same as saying "so Christians (or whoever) might be right!". Organised religions are man-made fictions, created to attempt to understand that which hasn't yet or can't be understood, and ultimately used to control. End of story, for me.

Now... My absolute MAIN issue with organised religion, is that it's entire existence hinges on the indoctrination of children from a young age. Without that aspect, religion simply ceases to exist in any major form. Religion continues by getting into the heads of the very young before they have developed the ability to use logic and reason (adolescence) and sets itself up as a major source of, strangely enough, both comfort AND fear, and once it's embedded in a brand new mind like that, the roots run deep. It becomes part of people's entire sense of self, the world, and existence entirely. It's not something that sits well with me, at all.

That's a very good post and I agree with you, what I fail to understand is that when others point out other dangers with regard religion on these threads why you keep bringing up colour? Can you explain that because I'd like to hear it? The treatment of women and girls, fgm, brainwashing, enforcing religious dress codes are serious elements of religious conditioning.

[Brillopad]

That's a very good post and I agree with you, what I fail to understand is that when others point out other dangers with regard religion on these threads why you keep bringing up colour? Can you explain that? The treatment of women and girls, fgm, brainwashing, enforcing religious dress codes are serious elements of religious conditioning.

Another good post.

[Kizzy]

Cultural conditioning, not religious.

[user104658]

That's a very good post and I agree with you, what I fail to understand is that when others point out other dangers with regard religion on these threads why you keep bringing up colour? Can you explain that because I'd like to hear it? The treatment of women and girls, fgm, brainwashing, enforcing religious dress codes are serious elements of religious conditioning.
Because the religious assumption is part of the racial stereotyping. People seem to be unaware that the vast majority of refugees fleeing from the middle east are NOT heavily religious people who "dress funny" and oppress their women in backwards ways; they are completely normal, terrified families not really any different at all to the average British family. People see "refugees from the middle east" and apparently get this image in their mind of droves of heavily religious people in robes. That is stereotyping. That is racism. The inability to understand that most of these refugees are NOT that, AT ALL.

[user104658]

Cultural conditioning, not religious.
Religion is used / abused in the process of cultural conditioning (more than ANY other method), there's little point in denying that.

A mind that is set up from birth to accept conditioning (religion) will be easier to manipulate for life. It creates a resistance to logic.

[Brillopad]

Cultural conditioning, not religious.

Of course its religious. Culture and religion are entwined.

[jaxie]

Because the religious assumption is part of the racial stereotyping. People seem to be unaware that the vast majority of refugees fleeing from the middle east are NOT heavily religious people who "dress funny" and oppress their women in backwards ways; they are completely normal, terrified families not really any different at all to the average British family. People see "refugees from the middle east" and apparently get this image in their mind of droves of heavily religious people in robes. That is stereotyping. That is racism. The inability to understand that most of these refugees are NOT that, AT ALL.

I am unclear then why you think that discussing religion or islam is automatically discussing migrants? And are you saying when you discuss religion it's not stereotyping but when others do it is? I don't think I've ever discussed migrants or their plight with you but in many discussions where we've been talking about religion and religious uniform you've brought up colour. I'm not trying to cause discord since that seems a frequent assumption, so if you want to discuss it in private message I'm up for it.Say the word.

[jaxie]

Of course its religious. Culture and religion are entwined.

Not only that a lot of it is doctrine interpretation s of the religious writings of that faith.

[Glenn.]

I love how theories are hard cold evidence

Theories that can be backed by scientific evidence. Religion is backed up by the blind faith of idiots.

[Withano]

Theories that can be backed by scientific evidence. Religion is backed up by the blind faith of idiots.

The only evidence for the Big Bang is that it is possible yet statistically unlikely. It's actually not dissimilar. Both needs a bit of blind faith.

Your entire point seemed to be about religious people being idiots and you being far superior. You actually felt that your blind faith was so superior that theirs should be abolished. I'm not sure you understand the concept faith I guess is my point. Either that, or you've put far too much trust in this theory, which by your logic would surely make you just as stupid as the people you're insulting.

[Brillopad]

Not only that a lot of it is doctrine interpretation s of the religious writings of that faith.

Female modesty for instance. It's all closely linked and instilled from birth. That way it ensures least resistance. Just a sexist ploy to control women and be top dog. Primitive rubbish in my opinion.

[Kizzy]

Of course its religious. Culture and religion are entwined.

There are cultural norms and there are religious norms, They are separate two people of two differing faiths can exhibit the same cultural norms.

[Brillopad]

The only evidence for the Big Bang is that it is possible yet statistically unlikely. It's actually not dissimilar. Both needs a bit of blind faith.

Your entire point seemed to be about religious people being idiots and you being far superior. You actually felt that your blind faith was so superior that theirs should be abolished. I'm not sure you understand the concept faith I guess is my point. Either that, or you've put far too much trust in this theory, which by your logic would surely make you just as stupid as the people you're insulting.

Faith = wishful thinking. Pluses and minuses - whilst it provides comfort for many it also creates the abuse of many. For me that abuse outweighs its comfort value.

What I personally object to is when people try to present religion as fact - it isn't and never will be.

[Kizzy]

Female modesty for instance. It's all closely linked and instilled from birth. That way it ensures least resistance. Just a sexist ploy to control women and be top dog. Primitive rubbish in my opinion.

Patriarchal socialisation.

[Glenn.]

Faith = wishful thinking. Pluses and minuses - whilst it provides comfort for many it also creates the abuse of many. For me that abuse outweighs its comfort value.

What I personally object to is when people try to present religion as fact - it isn't and never will be.

Pretty much this.

[jaxie]

The only evidence for the Big Bang is that it is possible yet statistically unlikely. It's actually not dissimilar. Both needs a bit of blind faith.

Your entire point seemed to be about religious people being idiots and you being far superior. You actually felt that your blind faith was so superior that theirs should be abolished. I'm not sure you understand the concept faith I guess is my point. Either that, or you've put far too much trust in this theory, which by your logic would surely make you just as stupid as the people you're insulting.

This is evidence taught in GCSE for Big Bang, link provided for anyone interested. http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/science/aqa_pre_2011/radiation/originsrev2.shtml The Nasa site also has study information for evidence of Big Bang.

I'd also recommend The God Delusion as a great, thought provoking read.

[user104658]

The only evidence for the Big Bang is that it is possible yet statistically unlikely. It's actually not dissimilar. Both needs a bit of blind faith.

Your entire point seemed to be about religious people being idiots and you being far superior. You actually felt that your blind faith was so superior that theirs should be abolished. I'm not sure you understand the concept faith I guess is my point. Either that, or you've put far too much trust in this theory, which by your logic would surely make you just as stupid as the people you're insulting.
This is also the crux of religion though; the idea that if we don't have an explanation for something, we must invent one. That one of the already proposed solutions must be the correct one. Which is actually highly unlikely. Where does this idea come from that if someone isn't religious, or is actively anti-religious, they automatically "must believe in the big bang theory"?

The only reasonable standpoint, as far as I see it, is that we simply have to accept that we do not know or understand the origins of space and time. They are beyond us. We just don't know. But then people take that to mean, "and so a religion could be right!" which is simply ludicrous. It is essentially the idea that, out of infinite possibility, in an infinite and unknowable universe, some humans in the last few thousand years managed to straight up guess the truth, and beyond all logic, the truth is a collection of human-centric concepts? Bizarre.

[Withano]

This is also the crux of religion though; the idea that if we don't have an explanation for something, we must invent one. That one of the already proposed solutions must be the correct one. Which is actually highly unlikely. Where does this idea come from that if someone isn't religious, or is actively anti-religious, they automatically "must believe in the big bang theory"?

The only reasonable standpoint, as far as I see it, is that we simply have to accept that we do not know or understand the origins of space and time. They are beyond us. We just don't know. But then people take that to mean, "and so a religion could be right!" which is simply ludicrous. It is essentially the idea that, out of infinite possibility, in an infinite and unknowable universe, some humans in the last few thousand years managed to straight up guess the truth, and beyond all logic, the truth is a collection of human-centric concepts? Bizarre.

And the bit in bold will always be the conclusion, wouldn't it. Glenn's whole 'people who don't agree with my -also- statistically unlikely theory are all stupid' little gig he's got going on there is ridiculous and ego-driven
I'd say the same to a devout religious nut that dismisses all other theories
You don't know your theory has any value to it at all, until and unless you do - stop being a dick
You have faith in your theory, that's cute. Stop trying to push it on others. Gather all the information in the world if you must, the conclusion will always be inconclusive.

[user104658]

And the bit in bold will always be the conclusion, wouldn't it. Glenn's whole 'people who don't agree with my -also- statistically unlikely theory are all stupid' little gig he's got going on there is ridiculous and ego-driven
I'd say the same to a devout religious nut that dismisses all other theories
You don't know your theory has any value to it at all, until and unless you do - stop being a dick
You have faith in your theory, that's cute. Stop trying to push it on others. Gather all the information in the world if you must, the conclusion will always be inconclusive.
The fact that no theory can be outright proven does not make all theories equal, though. Where's the logic in that? Where does it end? If you believe that then you can't deny ANY theory. If I have a theory that Katie Hopkins took a day off from The Sun and created the universe... Is that as equally open to being considered a legitimate possibility?

Of course it isnt - it doesn't make sense, it is illogical, the likelihood of it being correct is SO unimaginably small that it can be confidently declared to be straight up false.

The point is that there are near infinite possible theories about space, time and life and it's extremely unlikely that any human theory is entirely correct. Purely because it's unlikely that we even have a concept of the science behind it yet (or maybe, ever). However that doesn't mean that the likelihood of a singularity and the big bang isn't significantly MORE likely than any religious theory. Vague spirituality and belief in some form of higher life form or intelligent creation is perfectly possible. It's not even unlikely, I would say. It's pretty much 50/50 as to whether the universe is borne of deliberate design or simply of order randomly emerging from chaos over infinite time. However, the "human gods" of organised religion, and every single word of every religious text ever written, can only be concluded to be SO unlikely as to be considered effectively false. As false at the Katie Hopkins theory, or the theory that the planet is simply a condensed hairball coughed up by a huge intergalactic space cat. "God of some sort"? Possibly. Organised religion? Nonsense and fairytales.

[Withano]

The fact that no theory can be outright proven does not make all theories equal, though. Where's the logic in that? Where does it end? If you believe that then you can't deny ANY theory. If I have a theory that Katie Hopkins took a day off from The Sun and created the universe... Is that as equally open to being considered a legitimate possibility?

Of course it isnt - it doesn't make sense, it is illogical, the likelihood of it being correct is SO unimaginably small that it can be confidently declared to be straight up false.

The point is that there are near infinite possible theories about space, time and life and it's extremely unlikely that any human theory is entirely correct. Purely because it's unlikely that we even have a concept of the science behind it yet (or maybe, ever). However that doesn't mean that the likelihood of a singularity and the big bang isn't significantly MORE likely than any religious theory. Vague spirituality and belief in some form of higher life form or intelligent creation is perfectly possible. It's not even unlikely, I would say. It's pretty much 50/50 as to whether the universe is borne of deliberate design or simply of order randomly emerging from chaos over infinite time. However, the "human gods" of organised religion, and every single word of every religious text ever written, can only be concluded to be SO unlikely as to be considered effectively false. As false at the Katie Hopkins theory, or the theory that the planet is simply a condensed hairball coughed up by a huge intergalactic space cat. "God of some sort"? Possibly. Organised religion? Nonsense and fairytales.

But some theories are more likely than others to each person. No theory will be proven. Calling people an idiot etc because you personally believe your theory is better than theirs, would make you a dick. It doesn't matter what your theory is, it works every which way.

[Brillopad]

But some theories are more likely than others to each person. No theory will be proven. Calling people an idiot etc because you personally believe your theory is better than theirs, would make you a dick. It doesn't matter what your theory is, it works every which way.

Creation of the planet etc could be proven one day. Religion could not. Why do you feel the need to get so personal about it. That is pretty dickish in my opinion. Pot and kettle kind of mentality.

[Withano]

Creation of the planet etc could be proven one day. Religion could not. Why do you feel the need to get so personal about it. That is pretty dickish in my opinion. Pot and kettle kind of mentality.

But until, and unless that day comes, you can't prove any of those statements.

Your love of circles is excessive
A street preacher is a dick.. a person who preys on the vulnerable to convert to their religion? Dick. A person insulting everybody who doesn't think their way, they're a dick too. Me being a dick for calling them out? If you like luv.

[Brillopad]

Your love of circles is excessive
A street preacher is a dick.. a person who preys on the vulnerable to convert to their religion? Dick. A person insulting everybody who doesn't think their way, they're a dick too. Me being a dick for calling them out? If you like luv.

Same ole, same ole. As you and me and others are hardly innocent of said crime, singling out one poster's comments is nonsence. He certainly isn't a serial offender - unlike some.

[Withano]

Same ole, same ole. As you and me and others are hardly innocent of said crime, singling out one poster's comments is nonsence. He certainly isn't a serial offender - unlike some.

I'm not sure I understand, he's allowed to insult forum members and millions of others because he isn't a serial offender? Or I'm not allowed to call him out on it because I am apparently?
What a weird rule you just made up

[user104658]

But some theories are more likely than others to each person. No theory will be proven. Calling people an idiot etc because you personally believe your theory is better than theirs, would make you a dick. It doesn't matter what your theory is, it works every which way.

Formal logic isn't subjective... There is no "depends on the person" there. Rigid faith is fundamentally, objectively, illogical in several ways... No matter which faith that happens to be.

What is largely subjective, like I said, is the basic choice - random order from chaos ("1000 monkeys" theorem) or intelligent design of unknown nature (a higher entity that could be simplified as "a god"). The idea that any human, anywhere, ever, has stumbled upon anything more than that which even vaguely resembles fact is (again) so unlikely that it can be discarded as false, even when it can't be logically disproven (which certain aspects of organised religion certainly can).

I wouldn't assume anyone to be "stupid" as there are all sorts of reasons that people develop the cognitive dissonance required to follow an organised religion - the most common are indoctrination and trauma (especially loss) - neither of which have anything to do with intelligence.

[Marsh.]

Blind faith.

The problem is it is often used to control peoples' thoughts and therefore actions. Religion has been used as a weapon of abuse for centuries. Without it such abuse could not continue.
That's quite naive to think. Without religion, yes it couldn't be used by people to manipulate it's meaning or cause for their own power and gain. But those people will simply find something else to twist to their own ends. Anyone who thinks any of these religions supports or condones these extremists who use religion as an excuse for their actions are wrong.

Just like every other organisation or position of power it's abused by evil people.

The problem isn't religion itself. It's greedy humans.

[DemolitionRed]

Like Muslims hate Jews, Christians, other Muslims and non-believers for instance.

Its true that most Muslims hate Jews, just as most Jews hate Muslims but that's all about Israel and Palestine.

Main stream Muslims certainly don't hate Christians. Jesus is mentioned 25 times in the Quran. The story of Saul and Gideon in our Bible is repeated in the Quran and so is Adam and Eve, Noah and the Arc, the story of Moses and Mary and Joseph. Muslim scholars are expected to read the Bible.

[Glenn.]

And the bit in bold will always be the conclusion, wouldn't it. Glenn's whole 'people who don't agree with my -also- statistically unlikely theory are all stupid' little gig he's got going on there is ridiculous and ego-driven
I'd say the same to a devout religious nut that dismisses all other theories
You don't know your theory has any value to it at all, until and unless you do - stop being a dick
You have faith in your theory, that's cute. Stop trying to push it on others. Gather all the information in the world if you must, the conclusion will always be inconclusive.

The idea that a higher being created the universe is ludicrous when there's been so much progress on creation of planets and systems etc.
The fairytales in the bible, like Jesus making a meal out of pittance to feed 5000 people, Jesus being crucified and subsequently killed then magically coming back to life... fairytales. It's not physically possible for any of that to happen. Yet it's still taken as fact by idiots. I call them idiots because that's what they are. It's the suspension of belief that these people follow. The suspension of belief that is pushed onto innocent children at such a young age, polluting their easily led brains with nonsense. Not to mention how poisonous some idiots are to homosexual people. It's sickening. Even more so when you think it's based on a pile of absolute bollocks.

[Kizzy]

The best explanation I've heard is that the stories are all metaphors and never intended to be taken literally the resurrection could be simply people remembering his teachings and therefore he is 'reborn', If people remember you are you ever truly dead?

Not that I do religion... :idc:

[Tozzie]

The idea that a higher being created the universe is ludicrous when there's been so much progress on creation of planets and systems etc.
The fairytales in the bible, like Jesus making a meal out of pittance to feed 5000 people, Jesus being crucified and subsequently killed then magically coming back to life... fairytales. It's not physically possible for any of that to happen. Yet it's still taken as fact by idiots. I call them idiots because that's what they are. It's the suspension of belief that these people follow. The suspension of belief that is pushed onto innocent children at such a young age, polluting their easily led brains with nonsense. Not to mention how poisonous some idiots are to homosexual people. It's sickening. Even more so when you think it's based on a pile of absolute bollocks.

calm down Glenn and stop stressing, your frustration that some people choose to have faith screams in your posts. And breathe :laugh:

[DemolitionRed]

The best explanation I've heard is that the stories are all metaphors and never intended to be taken literally the resurrection could be simply people remembering his teachings and therefore he is 'reborn', If people remember you are you ever truly dead?

Not that I do religion... :idc:

I believe a lot of the bible is metaphorical

[Cherie]

The best explanation I've heard is that the stories are all metaphors and never intended to be taken literally the resurrection could be simply people remembering his teachings and therefore he is 'reborn', If people remember you are you ever truly dead?

Not that I do religion... :idc:


I agree with this, our priest at Christmas touched on this as well, that 25th Dec is just a symbolic date etc..he is an incredibly intelligent man, I should go more often as he gives very thought provoking sermons, I don't know why non religious folk are so desperate to prove this and that, some people believe in ghosts, live and let live for goodness sake