Will a labour win ruin the economy again

[Brillopad]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/566800/Ross-Clark-Ed-Miliband-Labour-ruin-economy

Thought this relevant and a reminder of what a catastrophe an overspending labour government can be.

[user104658]

iiiit's groundhog daaaay.

No



Because the economy was ruined by a global collapse caused recklessness in the finance and banking industries.

[Brillopad]

iiiit's groundhog daaaay.

No



Because the economy was ruined by a global collapse caused recklessness in the finance and banking industries.

They all try that one. That was only part of it. Labour failed to regulate the banks properly and overspent - the combination of those two things ruined the economy.

We'll be at least halfway there if Corbyn's' manifesto policies are anything to go by. Spend, spend and more spend.

The fact the the tories didn't do that the lefties would have us believe is due to their perverted wish to make the lives of the 'poor' even poorer. Just more ludicrous Tory bashing melodramatics.

[user104658]

If you think we wouldn't have ended up in the same economic position under the Conservatives, you are mistaken. If anything, Blair's labour had more in common with the Tories than with the current Labour party.

[thesheriff443]

I predict money will be replaced by credit.
You will earn credit and spend credit.

[DemolitionRed]

If you think we wouldn't have ended up in the same economic position under the Conservatives, you are mistaken. If anything, Blair's labour had more in common with the Tories than with the current Labour party.

It likely would of been worse because the Cons predecessors also tolerated a regulation regime and a financial sector that allowed the global financial crisis to have a particularly damaging effect on the UK economy. https://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/how-can-labour-say-it-didnt-crash.html

Whilst the Cons are busy blaming Brown for the crash, they haven't deviated off his path, but they have stopped growth potential with 'austerity squeeze' and 'deregulation' and they're doing this with no risk aversion in place. This means, when the housing bubble bursts again, and it will, its going to be much worse than the last one. The Cons learnt nothing from the world crash and that's frightening.

[Alf]

Working rights and opportunities of the working-class were decimated during the 3 terms of the Labour government. Once upon a time, the unskilled workforce had the right to sick pay, holiday pay and the opportunity to progress within the company they were employed in whenever the opportunity arose. But, within the Labour years, the agency worker came into being and all those working rights and opportunities disappeared because companies and businesses were given the choice of employing an unskilled worker full-time (who had the right to sick pay and holiday pay) to do the menial tasks or an unskilled agency worker who could do the same menial tasks who they could discard whenever they choose. And what do you think the companies and businesses chose? That's right, the agency worker! Well done, Labour! The party of the working-class that ****ed the working-class more than any other political party has ever done!

Once upon a time the unskilled working-class had rights and opportunities, but when Labour came into power all that disintegrated. The agency worker replaced the working-class thanks to the Labour Party! And to make matters worse, the Labour Party let an over-whelming influx of unskilled migrant workers come into the country and legitimately fight for the unskilled agency employment positions that the working-class once had working rights and opportunities to progress. We actually have agencies that are there simply to cater for unskilled migrant workers seeking work and competing for positions with the local working-class. Well done, Labour! You sure know how to look after your own!!!!!!

[DemolitionRed]

The previous Labour government followed their predecessors, the Cons. Blair and Brown were both Tory lights. They were doing the same thing as the Tories before them and Cameron carried on in Browns footsteps after the crash. To say otherwise is naive.

I would never of voted for Blair or Brown because they were skunks who turned left wing politics into Tory politics. They are not the Labour party we see today.

[Withano]

Its pretty cool how people are talking about a possible labour win. Tories landslide win has dissolved into a potential loss to some it seems

[Kazanne]

They all try that one. That was only part of it. Labour failed to regulate the banks properly and overspent - the combination of those two things ruined the economy.

We'll be at least halfway there if Corbyn's' manifesto policies are anything to go by. Spend, spend and more spend.

The fact the the tories didn't do that the lefties would have us believe is due to their perverted wish to make the lives of the 'poor' even poorer. Just more ludicrous Tory bashing melodramatics.

Dont forget that garden tax Corbyn never mentioned which could triple council tax that has to be paid,wonder how many more gems like that he has on his ipad.:hee:

[Withano]

Also no @ op. Taxing corporations will get you billions, obviously (basic maths and logic). those billions will be spent on stuff. The only people who think this is bad are people who own those corporations, and those that blindly follow what those corporations have to say.

[Withano]

Dont forget that garden tax Corbyn never mentioned which could triple council tax that has to be paid,wonder how many more gems like that he has on his ipad.:hee:

According to those who have done the math 1.83% of value would raise the same sums as Council tax leaving 83% of households better off.

"I welcome any proposals which move the burden of taxation towards developers and large land owners who have made huge profits out of rising land values in the capital and away from many hard working people on lower and middle incomes." The land tax was not only winning backing on the Left of the party but also among more moderate Lib-Dem MPs
Its targetting people that own acres of spare land, Kaz. You make it sound like the tories' bedroom tax or something haha.

[the truth]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/566800/Ross-Clark-Ed-Miliband-Labour-ruin-economy

Thought this relevant and a reminder of what a catastrophe an overspending labour government can be.

yes of course they always have done

[joeysteele]

Its targetting people that own acres of spare land, Kaz. You make it sound like the tories' bedroom tax or something haha.

I've given up Withano.

Despite all the evidence,hardship of austerity over the last 7 years which was supposed to be for 5 years max.
Now going to go on for another 5 years again.
Despite the humiliating testing and heartless policies towards people sick and disabled.
It seems in the UK there are those who don't care a jot for that cruelty and failure.

Also clear,is everything Labour propose or have done is and was wrong.
While the Cons can fail,at to the debt level,borrow,keep on with failed austerity measures,even get round to bringing back a hunting bill as to foxes,Deers and hare coursing.

Yet get pats on the back for all that failure.With support posing like a waterfall.

In this election, voters voting for this truly horrible cruel woman,warrant all they will get as to more failure from her deceptive policies.
I really despair but see no point at all myself anyway, in trying to reason.

Let that all happen.
I have never ever liked or trusted Mrs May since coming across her.
She is a total liar.
I make a lot of judgements on people the way they would treat or have animals treated.
This woman is truly vile.

Really it leaves one in despair at the way there are voters who would permit and reward failure and allow suffering to take place even more towards the sick and disabled.
Worse still that some will defend such policies, or say the policies are wrong but then will vote for more of them.
Really a sad indictment on UK politics.
For me personally a disgrace but reasoning seems near impossible now.
So I give up.

I am voting Labour to hopefully end this last 7 years failure and heartlessness across the board..
Hoping too,I never give any tiny chance of a hunting bill being legalised again too.
I'd hope voters see the light but reading things here I doubt that completely now.

The Cons sure know how to con and get away with it too.
This rotten deceitful leader they have,a total perfectionist at lying and deceit too.

[Withano]

I've given up Withano.

Despite all the evidence,hardship of austerity over the last 7 years which was supposed to be for 5 years max.
Now going to go on for another 5 years again.
Despite the humiliating testing and heartless policies towards people sick and disabled.
It seems in the UK there are those who don't care a jot for that cruelty and failure.

Also clear,is everything Labour propose or have done is and was wrong.
While the Cons can fail,at to the debt level,borrow,keep on with failed austerity measures,even get round to bringing back a hunting bill as to foxes,Deers and hare coursing.

Yet get pats on the back for all that failure.With support posing like a waterfall.

In this election, voters voting for this truly horrible cruel woman,warrant all they will get as to more failure from her deceptive policies.
I really despair but see no point at all myself anyway, in trying to reason.

Let that all happen.
I have never ever liked or trusted Mrs May since coming across her.
She is a total liar.
I make a lot of judgements on people the way they would treat or have animals treated.
This woman is truly vile.

Really it leaves one in despair at the way there are voters who would permit and reward failure and allow suffering to take place even more towards the sick and disabled.
Worse still that some will defend such policies, or say the policies are wrong but then will vote for more of them.
Really a sad indictment on UK politics.
For me personally a disgrace but reasoning seems near impossible now.
So I give up.

I am voting Labour to hopefully end this last 7 years failure and heartlessness across the board..
Hoping too,I never give any tiny chance of a hunting bill being legalised again too.
I'd hope voters see the light but reading things here I doubt that completely now.

The Cons sure know how to con and get away with it too.
This rotten deceitful leader they have,a total perfectionist at lying and deceit too.

I completely agree Joey, there are some excellent policies going to go to waste for the sake of believing May is strong and stable.
The papers don't help. Corporations will be hit hard under Labour, and so they bloody well should at long last. Their media outlets are simply leading people on to believe that they too will be effected, which is just not the case.

The way I see it is, its a battle between great policies and smeer campaigns versus terrible policies with corporate backing and funding.
The terrible policies is winning at the moment, but more and more people are fact checking the papers :fc:

[Kazanne]

I've given up Withano.

Despite all the evidence,hardship of austerity over the last 7 years which was supposed to be for 5 years max.
Now going to go on for another 5 years again.
Despite the humiliating testing and heartless policies towards people sick and disabled.
It seems in the UK there are those who don't care a jot for that cruelty and failure.

Also clear,is everything Labour propose or have done is and was wrong.
While the Cons can fail,at to the debt level,borrow,keep on with failed austerity measures,even get round to bringing back a hunting bill as to foxes,Deers and hare coursing.

Yet get pats on the back for all that failure.With support posing like a waterfall.

In this election, voters voting for this truly horrible cruel woman,warrant all they will get as to more failure from her deceptive policies.
I really despair but see no point at all myself anyway, in trying to reason.

Let that all happen.
I have never ever liked or trusted Mrs May since coming across her.
She is a total liar.
I make a lot of judgements on people the way they would treat or have animals treated.
This woman is truly vile.

Really it leaves one in despair at the way there are voters who would permit and reward failure and allow suffering to take place even more towards the sick and disabled.
Worse still that some will defend such policies, or say the policies are wrong but then will vote for more of them.
Really a sad indictment on UK politics.
For me personally a disgrace but reasoning seems near impossible now.
So I give up.

I am voting Labour to hopefully end this last 7 years failure and heartlessness across the board..
Hoping too,I never give any tiny chance of a hunting bill being legalised again too.
I'd hope voters see the light but reading things here I doubt that completely now.

The Cons sure know how to con and get away with it too.
This rotten deceitful leader they have,a total perfectionist at lying and deceit too.

It's as simple as this Joey people will champion the people they like,some like May others like Corbyn,no amount of trying to push ones opinions on to others will change their minds unless they are willing to do so,I am not overkeen on May,much prefered Cameron,I don't dislike Corbyn,but like you with May,I find something untrustworthy about him, it's just different situations for different people,no one is conning me ,TM has made a bit of a balls up with the manifesto,but for me she is still the better option,but it wont affect me too much as I will not be voting due to the fox hunting issue,If Corbyn wins I hope he is everything you deem him to be.

[joeysteele]

I completely agree Joey, there are some excellent policies going to go to waste for the sake of believing May is strong and stable.
The papers don't help. Corporations will be hit hard under Labour, and so they bloody well should at long last. Their media outlets are simply leading people on to believe that they too will be effected, which is just not the case.

The way I see it is, its a battle between great policies and smeer campaigns versus terrible policies with corporate backing and funding.
The terrible policies is winning at the moment, but more and more people are fact checking the papers :fc:

Indeed,it becomes depressing really.
Really sad for politics and moreso for the United Kingdom as a whole.
Especially those at the lowest end,who are weaker,poorer,sick and disabled.
Then this govt claims tthe UK to be one of the richest and strongest economies in the World.

Yet treats it's sick,disabled and weakest like 5th rate citizens.
Shocking and a total disgrace,to me anyway.
Really shameful.

[Livia]

iiiit's groundhog daaaay.

No



Because the economy was ruined by a global collapse caused recklessness in the finance and banking industries.

And Labour didn't mismanage the economy at all.

Makes me laugh to think that even Labour admitted to mismanaging the economy and yet supporters have already forgotten and with hindsight can blame the world recession.

The economy would have been under strain but you have to remember that Labour mismanaged the economy EVERY TIME they get in.

[Denver]

Labour hate Britain and wish to destroy it

[user104658]

And Labour didn't mismanage the economy at all.

Makes me laugh to think that even Labour admitted to mismanaging the economy and yet supporters have already forgotten and with hindsight can blame the world recession.

The economy would have been under strain but you have to remember that Labour mismanaged the economy EVERY TIME they get in.

Blair's labour did mismanage the economy, with the same neo-liberal policies that made Blair's labour so similar to the Tories. It was a global mismanagement / mistake. The conservatives would have made EXACTLY the same mistakes.

[Livia]

Blair's labour did mismanage the economy, with the same neo-liberal policies that made Blair's labour so similar to the Tories. It was a global mismanagement / mistake. The conservatives would have made EXACTLY the same mistakes.

So Labour mismanaged the economy because they were like Tories Lite.

Well, that's a new one.

[joeysteele]

Blair's labour did mismanage the economy, with the same neo-liberal policies that made Blair's labour so similar to the Tories. It was a global mismanagement / mistake. The conservatives would have made EXACTLY the same mistakes.

Actually likely worse.
The Cons between 2005 and 2010 would have regulated the Banks less.
They said Labour were regulating the Banks too much.

That's something Con diehard supporters conveniently gloss over.

[user104658]

So Labour mismanaged the economy because they were like Tories Lite.

Well, that's a new one.

A new one? ...is it? Have you... have you heard of neo-liberalism?

[Livia]

A new one? ...is it? Have you... have you heard of neo-liberalism?

Are you having a discussion with me or is this one of your soliloquies?

[user104658]

Are you having a discussion with me or is this one of your soliloquies?

I'm genuinely confused as to whether or not you understand the specific "bad policies" that lead to the recession both here and abroad, I would imagine you DO know that it's not the old "too much immigrants and benefits" strawman, and that it was specifically policies relating to irresponsible financial activity and lending. That's not an opinion, it's a fact, the global recession isn't "some mystery with lots of opinions about possible causes" - we know how and why it happened.

The policies that allowed it to happen were Neoliberal policies. Thatcher policies, Blair policies, Camerosborne policies. Classically, Tory policies. So yes... "Labour mismanaged the economy because they were like Tories Lite."

That's not "a new one", it's what happened. Blair took Thatcher's ball and ran with it, and it ended badly.

[Scarlett.]

The pure amount of Labour smear threads on this forum is becoming a little laughable.

[Livia]

The pure amount of Labour smear threads on this forum is becoming a little laughable.

I'd say it's about equal with Tories smear threads.

[Scarlett.]

I'd say it's about equal with Tories smear threads.

Labour smear threads
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319470
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319435
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319336 (Arguably news)
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319372
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319283

Tory smear threads
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319441 (Arguably news)
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319455
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319414

From the front page alone

[Livia]

Labour smear threads
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319470
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319435
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319336 (Arguably news)
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319372
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319283

Tory smear threads
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319441 (Arguably news)
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319455
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319414

It doesn't have to balance out.

[Tom4784]

iiiit's groundhog daaaay.

No



Because the economy was ruined by a global collapse caused recklessness in the finance and banking industries.

But people want to blame labour! Don't try to get in the way of that with facts, TS!

[Alf]

Labour smear threads
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319470
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319435
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319336 (Arguably news)
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319372
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319283

Tory smear threads
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319441 (Arguably news)
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319455
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319414

From the front page aloneWell go and start some Tory smear threads, if it annoys you that much. Nobody's stopping you.

[Niamh.]

deleted some posts in here, for the love of the gods, can you all please stop with the personal attacks and insults and stay on topic

[Scarlett.]

Well go and start some Tory smear threads, if it annoys you that much. Nobody's stopping you.

Nope, would rather focus on Labour's good points than spend all my time trying to discredit the other side.

[Alf]

Nope, would rather focus on Labour's good points than spend all my time trying to discredit the other side.You must have finished doing that by now?

[Brillopad]

You must have finished doing that by now?

It's hard to imagine anything more than a couple of bullet points.

[Withano]

Labour smear threads
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319470
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319435
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319336 (Arguably news)
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319372
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319283

Tory smear threads
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319441 (Arguably news)
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319455
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319414

From the front page alone

:joker: point excellently made

[the truth]

:joker: point excellently made

pointless more like

[DemolitionRed]

The Conservatives have made a huge mess of things and the only way to stop them is to get them out.

My dog walker is also a support worker. She works nights and then walks half a dozen dogs mid afternoon. She wants to build the dog walking business up because she can't afford to live off the minimum wage she receives as a support worker. She told me that before she started dog walking she couldn't financially get through the month, even though she was working a 50 hour week.
Yesterday I asked her who she was going to vote for (cheeky I know) and she said, without hesitation that she'd be voting for the Tory Party. I asked her why and she said, "because Corbyn is a liar". I asked her why she thought this and she said she reads bad stuff about him every day in the paper... Yes, of course I asked her what paper she read!!

People like her have been doubly fcuked over by the Tories but people like her have little understanding of politics or why she's had to suffer and work long ridiculous hours for a pittance. Many like her will vote for the Tories and that's why they will get back in and that's why people like her will keep on struggling.

[the truth]

The Conservatives have made a huge mess of things and the only way to stop them is to get them out.

My dog walker is also a support worker. She works nights and then walks half a dozen dogs mid afternoon. She wants to build the dog walking business up because she can't afford to live off the minimum wage she receives as a support worker. She told me that before she started dog walking she couldn't financially get through the month, even though she was working a 50 hour week.
Yesterday I asked her who she was going to vote for (cheeky I know) and she said, without hesitation that she'd be voting for the Tory Party. I asked her why and she said, "because Corbyn is a liar". I asked her why she thought this and she said she reads bad stuff about him every day in the paper... Yes, of course I asked her what paper she read!!

People like her have been doubly fcuked over by the Tories but people like her have little understanding of politics or why she's had to suffer and work long ridiculous hours for a pittance. Many like her will vote for the Tories and that's why they will get back in and that's why people like her will keep on struggling.

Yea yea anything bad said about labour is the daily mails fault lol heard that guff a zillion times, its total nonsense...labour destroyed the economy, there were 2 more unemployed, the nhs was the filthiest and cruellest in history, with record abuses, record cover ups, record mrsa, record people being abused and starved to death, record middle management jobs, record pay levels, then the labour party allowed 90% of all gp doctors to opt out of out of hours work and dentists too..genius...they sold our gold dirt cheap, they deregulated the banks which helped make our crash worse than anyones, they overswa the housing bubble, allowed mega banking mergers, all of which were a disaster, they encouraged and rewarded the breed for benefits culture was rife, a million innocents were killed in iraq on a pack of lies, the local councils were allowed to run millions over budget, they didnt even arm our troops properly and closed down nearly every military hospital. they took away civil liberties, fostered terrorism, opened our borders to an increase of 7 million rise in 13 years ...sold us out to europe too...DEMAND all small businesses pay £12 an hour minimum wage to unskilled workers across the uk when every area has massively different levels of income their one size fits all hard line stance on wages will destroy 100s of businesses and millions of jobs..theyve .saddled our kids with trillions plus of debts and now they want to repeat it all....they ALWAYS RUN OUT OF OTHER PEOPLES MONEY

The evil tories have reduced unemployment to record low, created more jobs than the rest of europe put together (Only 1 million of the 30 odd million jobs are zero hours so lets not have the left exaggerate that) record high levels of employment, theyve righly limited benefits to 25,000 per person, they DO subsidise houses in england with various house share schemes, the stock market is booming, the steel industry is booming, gdp growth has grown and exceeded predictions, they democratically allowed us the brexit vote, unlike labour, who sold us out without even aksing the public. labour wanting us to ditch the pound and join the euro too..theyre a bunch of traitors
the deficit is down too....They spend more per head than nhs wales which is behind england on nearly every measure...nhs wales is a disaster, it really really is, they miss almost every target, theyre beind in almost all areas. its a sorry mess.

ah those cruel nasty tories giving us a better nhs better economy, more jobs, less debts, more opportunities, a democratic vote, evil scum...far better to vote santa corbyn who promises the earth (on his credit card and cant deliver pizza

[Beso]

The Conservatives have made a huge mess of things and the only way to stop them is to get them out.

My dog walker is also a support worker. She works nights and then walks half a dozen dogs mid afternoon. She wants to build the dog walking business up because she can't afford to live off the minimum wage she receives as a support worker. She told me that before she started dog walking she couldn't financially get through the month, even though she was working a 50 hour week.
Yesterday I asked her who she was going to vote for (cheeky I know) and she said, without hesitation that she'd be voting for the Tory Party. I asked her why and she said, "because Corbyn is a liar". I asked her why she thought this and she said she reads bad stuff about him every day in the paper... Yes, of course I asked her what paper she read!!

People like her have been doubly fcuked over by the Tories but people like her have little understanding of politics or why she's had to suffer and work long ridiculous hours for a pittance. Many like her will vote for the Tories and that's why they will get back in and that's why people like her will keep on struggling.

You need to tell her that her employer is breaking the law by getting her to work 50 hours a week.

[Brillopad]

pointless more like

Almost half are Tory bashing and they don't even include DR's.

It's election time people are giving their opinions. What do people expect.

[smudgie]

Well at least they can't sell our gold off cheap this time.:fist:

[Withano]

Almost half are Tory bashing and they don't even include DR's.

It's election time people are giving their opinions. What do people expect.

Accurate information based on facts. Maybe I'm just being a liberal though.

[the truth]

Accurate information based on facts. Maybe I'm just being a liberal though.
labour lied about figures for 13 years, they lied about iraq covered up endless nhs abuses....The brexiteers are accused of the nhs lie, how many lies did bremainers spout? george gideon osbourne was hysterical with lies ad evveryone backed those lies...meanwhile the economys is booming relative to labours pathetic demise in 2010

[Withano]

labour lied about figures for 13 years, they lied about iraq covered up endless nhs abuses....The brexiteers are accused of the nhs lie, how many lies did bremainers spout? george gideon osbourne was hysterical with lies ad evveryone backed those lies...meanwhile the economys is booming relative to labours pathetic demise in 2010

Lol ur lying again

[Brillopad]

Accurate information based on facts. Maybe I'm just being a liberal though.

Several of mine are from the Independent of which you are quite happy to accept as fact from Corbyn supporters. I can't take you seriously - you make it up as you go along.

[smudgie]

In answer to the original question.
YES

[joeysteele]

No, they won't.
That's more likely from the Cons.

[Kizzy]

It's strange how during a worldwide recession the national debt was half what it is now despite all our 'austerity' .... :shrug:

[Withano]

Several of mine are from the Independent of which you are quite happy to accept as fact from Corbyn supporters. I can't take you seriously - you make it up as you go along.

Pretty much every anti-labour thread is speculative. How is speculation helpful, I mean honestly?

[Tom4784]

It's strange how during a worldwide recession the national debt was half what it is now despite all our 'austerity' .... :shrug:

You aren't allowed to point out facts that don't villify Labour, Kizzy!

[the truth]

You aren't allowed to point out facts that don't villify Labour, Kizzy!

lies

[jaxie]

I believe a labour win would ruin the economy and I think they would totally cave in to the EU on Brexit and do everything the EU demand. However I do like what they have said about making it fair for families to be together re immigration. But then I would because I have a family member who loves someone from a country outside the EU.

[Tom4784]

I believe a labour win would ruin the economy and I think they would totally cave in to the EU on Brexit and do everything the EU demand. However I do like what they have said about making it fair for families to be together re immigration. But then I would because I have a family member who loves someone from a country outside the EU.

You'll get a better chance at the brexit you want with Corbyn, someone who actually wanted to leave but couldn't due to his party's views than with May who never wanted to leave in the first place but went with it 'cus it would benefit her in the long run and is proven to u-turn at the drop of a hat.

Corbyn wanted brexit, May did not.

[jaxie]

You'll get a better chance at the brexit you want with Corbyn, someone who actually wanted to leave but couldn't due to his party's views than with May who never wanted to leave in the first place but went with it 'cus it would benefit her in the long run and is proven to u-turn at the drop of a hat.

Corbyn wanted brexit, May did not.

I don't think so because I believe that on the whole Labour are appeasers.

[DemolitionRed]

Its looking very much like a hung parliament at the moment. I bet Mayhap was wishing she'd never started this!.

[jaxie]

Its looking very much like a hung parliament at the moment. I bet Mayhap was wishing she'd never started this!.

I think she has wildly misjudged it with regard to the dropping off of support based on her policies. She forgot that no matter how popular you seem that can change if you choose policies that are not popular with the public. Needed more homework done.

Having said that I'll still be surprised if she doesn't win.

[user104658]

Tories completely misjudged Brexit, so strongly believing that it would be a "no" that they called the referrendum with absolutely no plan in place for an "Out" vote.

Tories have now called for a GE at a crucial time in that Brexit process, so confident they were of a landslide majority, AGAIN failing to consider the chaos that will be caused by a hung parliament if they are wrong.

Strong and stable. What a ****ing joke. "Overconfident and stubborn" would be more accurate.

[jaxie]

Tories completely misjudged Brexit, so strongly believing that it would be a "no" that they called the referrendum with absolutely no plan in place for an "Out" vote.

Tories have now called for a GE at a crucial time in that Brexit process, so confident they were of a landslide majority, AGAIN failing to consider the chaos that will be caused by a hung parliament if they are wrong.

Strong and stable. What a ****ing joke. "Overconfident and stubborn" would be more accurate.

I'm not entirely disagreeing but there were also many who were saying to anyone who'd listen, including people on this forum, that she wasn't elected, that a general election was needed, that she didn't have a proper mandate, etc etc.

[user104658]

I'm not entirely disagreeing but there were also many who were saying to anyone who'd listen, including people on this forum, that she wasn't elected, that a general election was needed, that she didn't have a proper mandate, etc etc.
The issue isn't really whether or not these votes have been needed or it's right to have them, though... The issue is that they are repeatedly assuming that they can predict the outcome of the vote before they call for it. So all of their plans are focused on their assumed outcome, without any safetynets or contingencies in place for alternative outcomes.

It's overconfidence, arrogance and complacency. Several high profile members of the party - including David Cameron himself - were badly burned by exactly that last summer and you would assume / hope those who opportunistically jumped in to take up those roles would actually have learned from those mistakes... But there's little sign of that. If anything, the apparently collapsing labour party and polls showing "landslide majority" have lead the Tories to feel practically invincible. Even talking up the most distasteful and similtaneously pointless of old-tory policies like fox hunting, as they were under the impression that nothing could even put a dent in their lead.

[jaxie]

The issue isn't really whether or not these votes have been needed or it's right to have them, though... The issue is that they are repeatedly assuming that they can predict the outcome of the vote before they call for it. So all of their plans are focused on their assumed outcome, without any safetynets or contingencies in place for alternative outcomes.

It's overconfidence, arrogance and complacency. Several high profile members of the party - including David Cameron himself - were badly burned by exactly that last summer and you would assume / hope those who opportunistically jumped in to take up those roles would actually have learned from those mistakes... But there's little sign of that. If anything, the apparently collapsing labour party and polls showing "landslide majority" have lead the Tories to feel practically invincible. Even talking up the most distasteful and similtaneously pointless of old-tory policies like fox hunting, as they were under the impression that nothing could even put a dent in their lead.

In regards the referendum of course there should have been a plan for a leave outcome and clearly there wasn't. But a general election is a very different beast, not sure how you have a back up plan for that. :shrug:

[Tom4784]

I don't think so because I believe that on the whole Labour are appeasers.

Based on what? May has literally folded or u-turned on pretty much every stance she's put forward, do you honestly believe she'll not fold on Brexit?

Corbyn at least knows what he wants, he wanted brexit all along and he'd be more likely to fight for it.

[Denver]

The whole free education thing will cost the UK £9 billion a year i dont know where he plans on getting the money from

[Tom4784]

May said no to a general election when the people wanted it because her position wasn't secure, she only called for an election when she did because the Tories spotted an opportunity to put paid to Labour and secure their hold on power.

This election was meant to be nothing more than a tactical assassination of the Labour Party and thankfully it's not looking like that'll be the case.

[jaxie]

Based on what? May has literally folded or u-turned on pretty much every stance she's put forward, do you honestly believe she'll not fold on Brexit?

Corbyn at least knows what he wants, he wanted brexit all along and he'd be more likely to fight for it.

Based on many things I've heard Labour and Corbyn say in relation to Brexit.

[Withano]

The whole free education thing will cost the UK £9 billion a year i dont know where he plans on getting the money from

Corporation tax. Labour have more money to spend than the tories because theyre taxing corporations billions, whereas tories are looking after the wealthy. Basic stuff adam.

[user104658]

In regards the referendum of course there should have been a plan for a leave outcome and clearly there wasn't. But a general election is a very different beast, not sure how you have a back up plan for that. :shrug:
Not on everything of course, but with specific regard to the ongoing Brexit negotiations. Someone should at least have asked the question; "What happens if it isn't a solid Tory majority?" and had a vague plan in place for transition of that... But the simple fact is, none of them thought for a second that it would be anything but a Tory landslide. Of course, it still might well be, nothing surprises me when it comes to voting outcomes these days, the voting public are for the mostpart fickle, bizarre and unpredictable. But that's the point, really. No one should assume they can "call it" - especially not those in power, for whom doing so has an actual impact.

[Denver]

Corporation tax. Labour have more money to spend than the tories because theyre taxing corporations billions, whereas tories are looking after the wealthy. Basic stuff adam.

So what happens when they take their business elsewhere that wont tax as much?

[Denver]

I dont know why cooperation's should pay the bulk load of taxes for someone else kids to Waste years of money getting drunk

[Withano]

So what happens when they take their business elsewhere that wont tax as much?

More room for those hard work migrants that appreciate the uk and want to set up a business here. Win win. Didnt even think of that. Corbyn truly is the hero.

[Denver]

More room for those hard work migrants that appreciate the uk and want to set up a business here. Win win. Didnt even think of that. Corbyn truly is the hero.

So you would rather a the British lose thousands of jobs for one job for an immigrant?

[DemolitionRed]

The whole free education thing will cost the UK £9 billion a year i dont know where he plans on getting the money from

Do you understand how the central bank works?

The central bank can never run out of money. So as long as we can keep borrowing sterling, the country can never go bust. I'm not saying we should over-borrow money because that would be disastrous but so long as we make enough money for the economy to go round and not just into the hands of the biggest land owners, a Labour government could easily deliver its goals. The Tories have been refusing to make that money because their goals don't lay with the working people of Britain.

Spending money borrowed from the central bank is about getting a long term return. Borrowing at 1% is fine providing you invest that borrowing in projects that are going to yield more than 1% The problem with our present government is, its not investing. The result is... as you can see here http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Documents/FAQ3GovtInv… Just when the economy needed it most the government is withholding.
Labour invested in 2008 to 2010 and the economy recovered from the 2008 crash. The Coalition withdrew investment and we are in a depression as a result.

[Withano]

So you would rather a the British lose thousands of jobs for one job for an immigrant?

Whos losing jobs? You just said these people move away off their own accord. They dont sound very patriotic. The new businesses will employ new workers and the world keeps spinning, but this time with more tax from the richest citizens. That tax will fund the education of the future doctors, nurses, teachers, lawyers etc etc.
Your potential lose scenario doesnt seem well thought through.

[DemolitionRed]

I dont know why cooperation's should pay the bulk load of taxes for someone else kids to Waste years of money getting drunk

Oh come on. The Tories have made Britain into a tax haven at the expense of middle class and working class Britain.

[Tom4784]

Based on many things I've heard Labour and Corbyn say in relation to Brexit.

So not much then.

[Denver]

Whos losing jobs? You just said these people move away off their own accord. They dont sound very patriotic. The new businesses will employ new workers and the world keeps spinning, but this time with more tax from the richest citizens.

Companies will move the business elsewhere.

Stuff like car manufactures

[Withano]

Companies will move the business elsewhere.

Stuff like car manufactures

And new businesses will take their place, obviously.

[Denver]

And new businesses will take their place, obviously.

They wont come to the UK if they are forced to pay unreasonable taxes when other countries will let them pay less

[DemolitionRed]

They wont come to the UK if they are forced to pay unreasonable taxes when other countries will let them pay less

They are not unreasonable taxes. My husband is going to have to pay more taxes if Labour get in but its not going to cripple him. He, like many business men thinks its perfectly reasonable.

The only people leaving the country will be the big tax dodgers. Right now, evading tax at the top end is blatantly easy.

[DemolitionRed]

Adam, I'm sorry but you clearly don't understand how tax can work in our favour.

[DemolitionRed]

Sends Adam a copy of "The Joy of Tax"

[Withano]

They wont come to the UK if they are forced to pay unreasonable taxes when other countries will let them pay less

Theres a huge queue of people that would love to come to the UK to set up a business

This is all hypothetical really anyway, what proportion of business owners are you expecting to actually get up and leave the UK because of slightly more tax that barely makes a dip in their overall profit.

But yes, lets not fund your personal future doctors education so somebody can make millions extra, a huge corporation like the daily mail thinks its a bad idea so it must be true, they speak for all right wing thinkers.

[DemolitionRed]

Theres a huge queue of people that would love to come to the UK to set up a business

.

:clap1:

[Denver]

Like everyone goes to Uni to be a doctor most people go for pointless courses

[Withano]

Like everyone goes to Uni to be a doctor most people go for pointless courses

Like what

[Denver]

https://www.**********************/showthread.php?t=1710482

You think it should be free?

[DemolitionRed]

Its not just uni, its further education colleges and its part time open university courses. Look at it another way. If you want to be a security guard or work in catering, you are expected to take or have the right ticket but right now, obtaining that ticket is expensive. Companies are presently making a killing on these courses. We need to get proper apprenticeships back with minimum cost to the apprentice because if we don't, we will continue, out of need, to employ people from abroad.

[Withano]

https://www.**********************/showthread.php?t=1710482

You think it should be free?

Webpage didnt load for me, but like, if its out of the richest man in the country having a spare million, or a handful of uk citizens trying to better thmselves with degrees (it is out of this btw, this is the choice) then the latter.

Its really hard to believe that somebody doesnt want Starbucks to contribute to tax, unless somebody who also skives from tax tells them to think this way. The tories are letting them get away with it, and in return, they are sponsoring their campaign. we have the opportunity to force them to contribute, but you're buying into propaganda from the corporations that will be hit hardest.

[Dominic]

There are more serious issues in the UK than the economy, such as Glory only selling 18000 copies.

[Denver]

Webpage didnt load for me, but like, if its out of the richest man in the country having a spare million, or a handful of uk citizens trying to better thmselves with degrees (it is out of this btw, this is the choice) then the latter.

Its really hard to believe that somebody doesnt want Starbucks to contribute to tax, unless somebody who also skives from tax tells them to think this way. The tories are letting them get away with it, and in return, they are sponsoring their campaign. we have the opportunity to force them to contribute, but you're buying into propaganda from the corporations that will be hit hardest.

People studying things from David Beckham to Star Trek is not worthy of money

[Withano]

People studying things from David Beckham to Star Trek is not worthy of money

Star Trek degrees in Washington, David Beckhams been discontinued, neither would be free, or available for UK citizens. what else you got... Something relevant to the discussion this time.

[jaxie]

So not much then.

So you are supporting someone you don't think has said much about Brexit over the last year. :shrug:

[Denver]

Star Trek degrees in Washington, David Beckhams been discontinued, neither would be free, or available for UK citizens. what else you got... Something relevant to the discussion this time.

He said all education for free so any stupid course would be free like photography

[Kizzy]

Newsflash.... It's ruined the national debt has doubled since the global financial crash, the NHS is on it's arse, schools are begging for funds and the prison system is on the brink of collapse. If the tories get back in this country is FINISHED.

[Withano]

He said all education for free so any stupid course would be free like photography

Plenty of people hire photographers for weddings, family photos, baby photos, even car and nightclub photos. Its a valid career choice. Dunno why you're so angry about free education lol.

[jaxie]

Newsflash.... It's ruined the national debt has doubled since the global financial crash, the NHS is on it's arse, schools are begging for funds and the prison system is on the brink of collapse. If the tories get back in this country is FINISHED.

You should travel some, then you'd see how fantastic the country you come from is.

[Withano]

You should travel some, then you'd see how fantastic the country you come from is.

Awh this made me sad, why do you keep having terrible holidays haha?

[Jack_]

Awh this made me sad, why do you keep having terrible holidays haha?

:joker:

[Wizard.]

Of course it will. People do know why Labour want to create a Welfare State and why they want to tax the rich but not help the poor get into work and earn money? Labour need people reliant on them to keep voting them into power, they don't want people to aspire to earn high wages because they know voters won't cut the hand that feeds them.

Maggie best explains it here

okHGCz6xxiw

[Kizzy]

You should travel some, then you'd see how fantastic the country you come from is.

*was*

Of the G7 we are now bottom of the pile.

Unless you mean developing countries or 3rd world countries? We for now are marginally better, although this comparison to other countries in the world is pointless.

[jaxie]

*was*

Of the G7 we are now bottom of the pile.

Unless you mean developing countries or 3rd world countries? We for now are marginally better, although this comparison to other countries in the world is pointless.

As I said you should travel more.

[Kazanne]

As I said you should travel more.

We are the 5th richest country in the world,we have luxuries a plenty,food a plenty,clean water things other countries can only dream of:shrug: and people still are not happy.

[Wizard.]

*was*

Of the G7 we are now bottom of the pile.

Unless you mean developing countries or 3rd world countries? We for now are marginally better, although this comparison to other countries in the world is pointless.

How are we at the bottom? Canada has a worse economy than ours as does France and Italy. Saying we are "marginally" better than 3rd world countries which you do realise are countries within Africa and South America? I'm sorry but what you're saying is totally untrue you may hate our current government but making up lies to somehow imply that Corbyn would bring us up out of being "marginally" better than Africa is ridiculous.

[Kizzy]

As I said you should travel more.

Why? How would that change my opinion on how my country is governed? Oh, so and so country is really corrupt, mine os nowhere near as corrupt as this ... my corrupt country is ace!

Sorry it doesm't work like that.

I suggest you read more, maybe brush up on your macroeconomics?

In terms of growth we are bottom, so in 7yrs we have doubled our national debt and are currently stagnating.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/may/31/uk-comes-bottom-of-the-g7-growth-league-as-canada-takes-the-lead

[jaxie]

We are the 5th richest country in the world,we have luxuries a plenty,food a plenty,clean water things other countries can only dream of:shrug: and people still are not happy.

My son has been round the world twice in the last couple of years and he said it really opens your eyes to how differently many other people live and what real poverty is like. It makes you realise how lucky we are.

[joeysteele]

We're the 5th richest Nation in the world and we have a govt that is ripping the heart out of care and public services and presides over extreme austerity,for another 5 years,at least,to come yet.

Either we are not the 5th richest Nation and therefore need some austerity.
Or we are the 5th richest Nation,which all surveys say is the case,in which case the failed austerity is this Conservative choice for only vindictive and shameful reasons.

[jaxie]

Why? How would that change my opinion on how my country is governed? Oh, so and so country is really corrupt, mine os nowhere near as corrupt as this ... my corrupt country is ace!

Sorry it doesm't work like that.

I suggest you read more, maybe brush up on your macroeconomics?

In terms of growth we are bottom, so in 7yrs we have doubled our national debt and are currently stagnating.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/may/31/uk-comes-bottom-of-the-g7-growth-league-as-canada-takes-the-lead

If you travelled more you'd know why.

[DemolitionRed]

I've done a lot of travelling. I lived in France and Iran. Travelled some of the African continent and just about all of Europe. I've worked in France, Italy, Germany, Egypt and Romania, but here I am voting for the Labour party.

[Withano]

Guys we're not in a poverty stricken war zone, so lets not try and ask for a better government?

[DemolitionRed]

In fact, spending time in Romania was a real eye opener. Extreme wealth versus poverty is right in your face. They are just more open about government corruption than we are, especially when it comes to taxation. The similarities of the way they are govern and the way we are presently governed is alarmingly similar. The Tories are just better at covering their corruption with a velvet cloak.

[Withano]

I've done a lot of travelling. I lived in France and Iran. Travelled some of the African continent and just about all of Europe. I've worked in France, Italy, Germany, Egypt and Romania, but here I am voting for the Labour party.

Same (different countries obviously!). I don't understand the logic at all. I think its that there are worse countries than the UK, so we dont need to better the UK? But thats ridiculous so I'm not sure

[Kizzy]

If you travelled more you'd know why.

Because poverty exists in other countries we should be more tolerant of it here?

Sorry that is nonsensical at best.

[Kizzy]

In fact, spending time in Romania was a real eye opener. Extreme wealth versus poverty is right in your face. They are just more open about government corruption than we are, especially when it comes to taxation. The similarities of the way they are govern and the way we are presently governed is alarmingly similar. The Tories are just better at covering their corruption with a velvet cloak.

I agree, as we in this country couldn't handle actually knowing the establishment were actively and openly working against us, one redeeming feature of Brits is our sense of fair play... if that goes... the establishment will fall, which is why they maintain the charade.

A who’s who of dodgy donors

The Tories’ donors included:

Sir Henry and Lady Keswick – £150,000 [pdf]. Keswick’s company Jardine Matheson was linked to tax avoidance via Luxembourg and has numerous subsidiaries in tax haven Bermuda.
Charles ‘Julian’ Cazalet – £10,000 [pdf]. Cazalet is a non-executive director of NHS private provider Deltex Medical Group.
John Griffin – £900,000 [pdf]. Griffin and his private hire firm Addison Lee were caught up in a lobbying and tax avoidance scandal in 2012.
David J Rowland – £200,000 [pdf]. The Canary conducted a major investigation into Rowland in 2016, and described his offshore tax affairs as “mind blowing”.
Andrew E Law – £250,000 [pdf]. Law is a hedge fund owner whose firm Caxton Associates is registered in the US tax avoidance state of Delaware.
Malcolm Healey – £100,000 [pdf]. Healey was fined by HMRC in 2015 for making £8.6m [pdf] by using a tax avoidance scheme.
Bruce Hardy McLain – £100,000 [pdf]. McLain’s private investment firm CVC Capital Partners is currently embroiled in a £5m bribery and tax avoidance scandal involving Formula One.
Ayman and Sawsan Asfari – £100,000 [pdf]. Ayman is currently under investigation by the Serious Fraud Office. He also runs oil company Petrofac, which avoids tax via Jersey.
Rainy City Investments – £100,000 [pdf]. Owned by Peter and Fred Done, who were fined £800,000 by the Serious Fraud Office over money laundering allegations.
Investors in Private Capital Ltd – £150,000 [pdf]. Owned by James ‘Jamie’ Reuben, family friend of George Osborne, it paid no UK corporation tax in 2014 [pdf p13], despite a turnover [pdf p17] of £35m.
John C Armitage – £1m [pdf p4 and pdf p4]. Armitage is the founder of Egerton Capital, a hedge fund that enables tax avoidance for investors.
JCB Service – £500,000 [pdf]. It’s owned by Anthony Bamford, who was not only named in the Panama Papers, but who operates JCB out of tax haven Bermuda.

https://www.thecanary.co/2017/06/01/list-dodgy-millionaire-donors-theresa-may-wont-want-see/

[jaxie]

I've done a lot of travelling. I lived in France and Iran. Travelled some of the African continent and just about all of Europe. I've worked in France, Italy, Germany, Egypt and Romania, but here I am voting for the Labour party.

Good for you. Except this is completely out of context with my response to Kizzy.

She was complaining about her country, nothing to do with the Labour party. :shrug:

You are living in the UK so I take it you realise this is by far the best place to live and bring up your children.

[jaxie]

Because poverty exists in other countries we should be more tolerant of it here?

Sorry that is nonsensical at best.

Is assuming you know. And trying to rearrange what I said to meet your own ends.

[jaxie]

Same (different countries obviously!). I don't understand the logic at all. I think its that there are worse countries than the UK, so we dont need to better the UK? But thats ridiculous so I'm not sure

Again you didn't read what was said. You are just making up what you presume to be ridiculous. :shrug:

[Kizzy]

Is assuming you know. And trying to rearrange what I said to meet your own ends.

Nope you suggested I couldn't criticise the current govt due to the fact I wan't traveled enough and then DR because she was traveled...

How have I twisted what you have said?

I don't care about other countries and their governments, many are in no way shape or form comparable to our democracy... I care about here, and ours.

Why is that so hard to understand?

[joeysteele]

I can't see what travelling is going to do to change the injustices and wrongs done by voters electing poor to bad govts.
If looked for, injustices are there for all to come across as I found out myself.

What our govts do is what matters,no amount of travelling will make our govts act as they should.

Our Politicians travel the World yet inflict many ridiculous policies on the UK.

The only way to change injustice and downright wrong being done to UK groupings such as the weakest, sick and disabled,and the only way to change people with incurable cancer having to be wheeled into courts forced to appeal there due to any govts.policy making,is to change that govt.
If ever a govt. warranted being well and truly thrown out of power,then that is for sure this abomination of a govt.
Totally devoid of a shred of decency or any truth as to it.

[jaxie]

Nope you suggested I couldn't criticise the current govt due to the fact I wan't traveled enough and then DR because she was traveled...

How have I twisted what you have said?

I don't care about other countries and their governments, many are in no way shape or form comparable to our democracy... I care about here, and ours.

Why is that so hard to understand?

You said: Newsflash.... It's ruined the national debt has doubled since the global financial crash, the NHS is on it's arse, schools are begging for funds and the prison system is on the brink of collapse. If the tories get back in this country is FINISHED.

I said you should travel more and you'd realise you live in a great country. Where in suggesting travelling would enlighten your feelings about your country, did I say you couldn't criticise the current government?

You said: Because poverty exists in other countries we should be more tolerant of it here?

You said: Nope you suggested I couldn't criticise the current govt due to the fact I wan't traveled enough and then DR because she was traveled...

Except that wasn't what I said at all is it? You just made it up completely twisting what I said. I never said anything like that. I said you should travel more.

[jaxie]

I can't see what travelling is going to do to change the injustices and wrongs done by voters electing poor to bad govts.
If looked for, injustices are there for all to come across as I found out myself.

What our govts do is what matters,no amount of travelling will make our govts act as they should.

Our Politicians travel the World yet inflict many ridiculous policies on the UK.

The only way to change injustice and downright wrong being done to UK groupings such as the weakest, sick and disabled,and the only way to change people with incurable cancer having to be wheeled into courts forced to appeal there due to any govts.policy making,is to change that govt.
If ever a govt. warranted being well and truly thrown out of power,then that is for sure this abomination of a govt.
Totally devoid of a shred of decency or any truth as to it.

Again that isn't what I said. I didn't say anything about the government, a government, a potential government. You are just making it up for your own political agenda. :shrug:

[Withano]

Again you didn't read what was said. You are just making up what you presume to be ridiculous. :shrug:

To be fair, nobody has read that post the way you intended it so maybe you should reiterate

[jaxie]

To be fair, nobody has read that post the way you intended it so maybe you should reiterate

Why should I if none of you can be bothered to read what I said and just assume what I'm saying? Read up to all the things Kizzy assumed I said by saying she should travel more. It's bizarre.

[Withano]

So the uk is good, comparatively speaking, but you'd only know if you travel. Also this has nothing to do with labour and the economy despite that being the thread topic?

Am I getting warmer? I love cryptic puzzles.

[jaxie]

So the uk is good, comparatively speaking, but you'd only know if you travel. Also this has nothing to do with labour and the economy despite that being the thread topic?

Am I getting warmer? I love cryptic puzzles.

Don't be silly. I was going to spell it out but actually I shouldn't have to.

[Withano]

Noo don't spell it out. Ruins the fun of cryptic puzzles. I'll have a think

[joeysteele]

Again that isn't what I said. I didn't say anything about the government, a government, a potential government. You are just making it up for your own political agenda. :shrug:

Well tit for tat, you are the one telling someone to travel more to learn about poverty to suit 'your' own agenda that this govt doesn't have poverty to deal with.
Thereby to suit your own political agenda against Labour.

[jaxie]

Well tit for tat, you are the one telling someone to travel more to learn about poverty to suit 'your' own agenda that this govt doesn't have poverty to deal with.
Thereby to suit your own political agenda against Labour.

Except that isn't what I said either. The last bit is too deluded a statement to respond to. :shrug: Who knew I had so many mad motives.

[joeysteele]

Except that isn't what I said either. The last bit is too deluded a statement to respond to. :shrug: Who knew I had so many mad motives.

Indeed.

[Kizzy]

You said:

I said you should travel more and you'd realise you live in a great country. Where in suggesting travelling would enlighten your feelings about your country, did I say you couldn't criticise the current government?

You said:

You said:

Except that wasn't what I said at all is it? You just made it up completely twisting what I said. I never said anything like that. I said you should travel more.

Why though... why would me travelling to other countries 'enlighten' me?

Why would it make me feel better about our social and economic issues, and why would you presume I hadn't considered the plight of peoples in other countries in the first instance?

It's a tired, non argument to suggest if anyone has an issue with the UK to 'go somewhere else'...

I'm sure the UK is paradise compared to some countries, conversely some places in the UK are hell compared with other countries, but we aren't playing geography bingo are we?

I just made a statement based on my opinion that you latched on to to share your less than profound interpretation of what should concern me.

[Withano]

Would you try to find a way to disagree with me and add a political party to it if I said the sky was blue? :shrug:

How can I disagree with something I don't understand haha? I might completely agree with you. You've literally told like 4 people they didnt read your words in the right way! Why dont you want to reiterate what you mean when there obviously confusion about it?!

[jaxie]

How can I disagree with something I don't understand haha? I might completely agree with you. You've literally told like 4 people they didnt read your words in the right way! Why dont you want to reiterate what you mean when there obviously confusion about it?!

Perhaps it helps to take the words at face value instead of reading 100 motives into them. :shrug:

I said you should travel more and you'd realise you live in a great country.

Is that really, really so hard to understand?

[Withano]

Oh right, I do actually disagree, but that has nothing to do with the colour of the sky

[Withano]

Also why was that relevant lol

[Niamh.]

Can you two get back ontopic please and drop that stupid argument

[jaxie]

Can you two get back ontopic please and drop that stupid argument

Maybe you should look at the person continuing it and baiting.

[Withano]

Can you two get back ontopic please and drop that stupid argument

I completely refute this. I wasnt arguing, I was genuinely confused, and I thought Jaxie was mocking a member for not travelling enough.

[Niamh.]

Maybe you should look at the person continuing it and baiting.

maybe you should stop replying also Jaxie, you can't have it both ways

[Niamh.]

Seriously the next one you to carry this on will be infracted