Grenfell tower, West London fire - final death toll of 71 announced

[Jack_]

875490957227171841

[UserSince2005]

all these messy tramp looking people heckling everyone.
They just had a go at the queen!
get some brains and get some dress sense. horrid people.

[Beso]

Looked more to me like a burst gas pipe and i have a nagging feeling its been done on purpose.

[Beso]

Definitely not ''all'' that's wanted but May's resignation would be a good start. About time she made herself accountable to someone other than those 'poor' Tory MP's who's seats she lost for them.



This has nothing to do with may..what did you want her to do? Absail down the building with a blow torch!

[UserSince2005]

Looked more to me like a burst gas pipe and i have a nagging feeling its been done on purpose.

it was very strange.

[DemolitionRed]

Job is a champagne socialist troll and no one apart from his band of radical left wing apologists takes him seriously

So you don't think people should be politicising this tragedy?

[DemolitionRed]

J9CxtUlJLQs

[joeysteele]

Facts not just politics.

How long have the Cons run Kensington council.
53 years since 1964 to now.

[UserSince2005]

Facts not just politics.

How long have the Cons run Kensington council.
53 years since 1964 to now.

And who relaxed fire regulations for high-rise buildings in 2008?
Labour!
Labour is to blame, that is the fact!

[arista]

Confirmed dead is now at 30

http://news.sky.com/story/west-london-fire-live-fire-service-chief-confirms-there-have-been-fatalities-10915010

[Kazanne]

Teresa May visiting those in hospital, which is more important at this moment.

[arista]

Teresa May visiting those in hospital, which is more important at this moment.

Yes about time she did

[DemolitionRed]

A video of Boris Johnson telling a Fire Safety Panel to "shove off" has resurfaced today.

UN3e-aYUusc

[Crimson Dynamo]

A video of Boris Johnson telling a Fire Safety Panel to "shove off" has resurfaced today.

UN3e-aYUusc

yes so what, he was rudely heckled and talked over and then he apologised, unlike the rude people heckling him

What is your point?

[joeysteele]

And who relaxed fire regulations for high-rise buildings in 2008?
Labour!
Labour is to blame, that is the fact!

Back at you, who has been in power since 2010 as well as the same party still running Kensington council too.

What has been going on as to both the last 7 years.
No way can you twist it round to Labour now., as much as you'd love to blame all wrong on Labour while all done right by the Cons.

Clearly not so as to the safety in these blocks however.

[DemolitionRed]

And who relaxed fire regulations for high-rise buildings in 2008?
Labour!
Labour is to blame, that is the fact!

Where is the link for this?

[Novo]

Their is a video doing the rounds of Corbyn eating food from the hampers people donated

[MTVN]

Corbyn has called for the state to requisition other people's property which is a breach of the European Convention on Human Rights: https://order-order.com/2017/06/16/requisitioning-property-breach-human-rights/

[Beso]

Their is a video doing the rounds of Corbyn eating food from the hampers people donated

He should resign of thats true..so disrespectful and just downrigjt idiotic..clown.

[joeysteele]

Yes about time she did

Shamed into action by a bad response to her yesterday.
People are searching wondering if they have lost family or friends.
They weren't important.

At last again doing something but why does it near always take bad publicity for her to even think about doing the right thing.
Even the Queen in her 90s went out to the people,what is so unique as to Mrs May she feels she has no duty to meet people,grieving and anxiously waiting for news of loved ones.

Just shows her really cold nature to me.

[UserSince2005]

Their is a video doing the rounds of Corbyn eating food from the hampers people donated

foul. disgusting man.

[UserSince2005]

Where is the link for this?

c4 news last night.

[DemolitionRed]

c4 news last night.

Well I've searched the web and can't find anything at all so if there's no source, we have to presume C4 made that up. You can't believe something on hearsay.

[DemolitionRed]

Their is a video doing the rounds of Corbyn eating food from the hampers people donated

If its doing the rounds, lets see it?

[MTVN]

Well I've searched the web and can't find anything at all so if there's no source, we have to presume C4 made that up. You can't believe something on hearsay.

Jon Snow put it to a Labour MP who did not try and deny it, why would he have made it up? He is a pretty left wing presenter at the best of the times

[King Gizzard]

If its doing the rounds, lets see it?

It isn't true, that's why

[the truth]

its that damn cladding and the lack of sprinklers that destroyed the building and gave them no chance

[Crimson Dynamo]

Seraphima Kennedy, who worked for the Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organisation between 2007 and early 2016, told Mark Mardell the organisation was "massively overstretched" and changes in policy were frequent.

She said the fact that there are sprinklers in hotels but not in high-rise council blocks "makes you ask questions about how the state values lives and which lives it values".

soruce:BBC

[UserSince2005]

Seraphima Kennedy, who worked for the Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organisation between 2007 and early 2016, told Mark Mardell the organisation was "massively overstretched" and changes in policy were frequent.

She said the fact that there are sprinklers in hotels but not in high-rise council blocks "makes you ask questions about how the state values lives and which lives it values".

soruce:BBC

It is the responsibility of the state to enforced rules.
But id be ****ed if tax payers money is to be spent on putting in sprinkler systems
thats these people responsibilities, if they own the flat, or the landlords responsibilities.
at the end of the day, these people would most likely not have been for the price to install sprinkers as they wouldnt want to spend the money or see their rent go up.
Living a cheap life can have consequences.

[Tom4784]

Teresa May visiting those in hospital, which is more important at this moment.

Well no, Theresa May using a tragedy to try to better her standing with the public is not that important tbh.

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/live-experience/cps/624/cpsprodpb/vivo/live/images/2017/6/16/d70ad342-d865-437e-a319-81ba3387b0d5.jpg

The five tower blocks of the Chalcot estate are fitted with the same external thermal cladding as Grenfell Tower

[JTM45]

It is the responsibility of the state to enforced rules.
But id be ****ed if tax payers money is to be spent on putting in sprinkler systems
thats these people responsibilities, if they own the flat, or the landlords responsibilities.
at the end of the day, these people would most likely not have been for the price to install sprinkers as they wouldnt want to spend the money or see their rent go up.
Living a cheap life can have consequences.

The flats are owned by the Government. They are state owned so installing sprinkler systems is clearly the responsibility of the Landlord/Owners.

[UserSince2005]

The flats are owned by the Government. They are state owned so installing sprinkler systems is clearly the responsibility of the Landlord/Owners.

Well if that is true, which im not sure it is.
Then the government should have raised the rent higher than the cost to fit the sprinkler system and made us some good money.

[Tom4784]

Sprinklers need to be made mandatory and that cladding needs to be removed from every Block that has them. Health and safety regulations regarding building materials and preventative measures need to be looked over and the penalty for companies and landlords not adhering to them must be strict.

Grenfell is a result of greed and was an avoidable tragedy. This can't happen again.

[Kazanne]

Well no, Theresa May using a tragedy to try to better her standing with the public is not that important tbh.

Same could be said for Corbyn who made sure he'de get noticed,lots of pics available for him there,whatever she does you will find fault with so no point in responding to such biased views.

[JTM45]

Well if that is true, which im not sure it is.
Then the government should have raised the rent higher than the cost to fit the sprinkler system and made us some good money.

It is true and it's been stated repeatedly throughout this thread.

Since when was affordable housing about ''making us some good money''. This is about making people's lives safer, not profit.:bored:

[Tom4784]

Same could be said for Corbyn who made sure he'de get noticed,lots of pics available for him there,whatever she does you will find fault with so no point in responding to such biased views.

Except I'm not telling anyone that Corbyn visiting survivors is important because it's not. Nice job using a tragedy to be petty and score some political points though. How vile.

[arista]

http://e3.365dm.com/17/06/1600x900/721f3f71d4d745a58e6bf4ec09824d84475f184bde05fe79af 5b930396d487ba_3979420.jpg?20170616103246
Commons Leader Conservative
Andrea Leadsom has been confronted over the Prime Minister not meeting survivors of the Grenfell Tower disaster.

video clip
http://news.sky.com/story/andrea-leadsom-confronted-over-pm-not-meeting-grenfell-tower-victims-10917280

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://e3.365dm.com/17/06/1600x900/721f3f71d4d745a58e6bf4ec09824d84475f184bde05fe79af 5b930396d487ba_3979420.jpg?20170616103246
Commons Leader Conservative
Andrea Leadsom has been confronted over the Prime Minister not meeting survivors of the Grenfell Tower disaster.

video clip
http://news.sky.com/story/andrea-leadsom-confronted-over-pm-not-meeting-grenfell-tower-victims-10917280

wtaf is she doing there?

[arista]

wtaf is she doing there?

Filling in for the PM

[Crimson Dynamo]

Filling in for the PM

well i see TM has sent in the big guns

noone knows who she is

[Kazanne]

Filling in for the PM

TM is at the hospitals.Cant be everywhere at once.

[arista]

TM is at the hospitals.Cant be everywhere at once.


yes she was
back at downing st now

[Beso]

Sprinklers need to be made mandatory and that cladding needs to be removed from every Block that has them. Health and safety regulations regarding building materials and preventative measures need to be looked over and the penalty for companies and landlords not adhering to them must be strict.

Grenfell is a result of greed and was an avoidable tragedy. This can't happen again.

Sprinklers will never be brought into the flats themselves due to insurance issues.

[Tom4784]

Sprinklers will never be brought into the flats themselves due to insurance issues.

They don't need to be.

It's the hallways, corridors and such outside of the flats that would best benefit from them. Put sprinklers there and you've always got an exit.

[jaxie]

This is devastating, still reeling from the images of the tower burning. It makes me sick to my stomach to think of the deaths and how the people died. Terrible, terrible tragedy.

Can't really say more than that. I see all the political point scoring is still going on. Lovely.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Who would live in London, Million £+ houses cheek by jowl next to tower blocks rammed with immigrants in areas you would not want to walk about in after dark. everyone paying through the nose for transport, food, services (much more than any other city in the UK). I doubt anyone in that tower block made much use of Londons glittering array of theatres and attractions

terrorist attacks right left and centre

And still you have that utter plank of a mayor telling everyone its the greatest city in the world

my fkg arse

[DemolitionRed]

Jon Snow put it to a Labour MP who did not try and deny it, why would he have made it up? He is a pretty left wing presenter at the best of the times

Of course he didn't try and deny it because he probably didn't know if it was true or not. This is why government records are kept but in this case, I can't find anything.

[MTVN]

Of course he didn't try and deny it because he probably didn't know if it was true or not. This is why government records are kept but in this case, I can't find anything.

Well here is the clip if you would like to see it: https://www.channel4.com/news/everybody-should-take-share-of-responsibility-for-tower-fire-labours-housing-secretary

It is actually 2005 that fire regulations were weakened and I imagine it is this Order that Snow is referring to: http://www.firesafe.org.uk/regulatory-reform-fire-safety-order-2005/

In the United Kingdom fire safety was covered by about seventy pieces of fire safety legislation, the principal ones being the Fire Precautions Act 1961 and the Fire Precautions (Workplace) Regulations 1997/1999. In 2001 it was therefore decided the legislation needed to be to simplified. This was achieved with the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 in England and Wales.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Does anyone know if there has been a UK flat fire in a building with this type of cladding prior to the weekend?

[DemolitionRed]

It is the responsibility of the state to enforced rules.
But id be ****ed if tax payers money is to be spent on putting in sprinkler systems
thats these people responsibilities, if they own the flat, or the landlords responsibilities.
at the end of the day, these people would most likely not have been for the price to install sprinkers as they wouldnt want to spend the money or see their rent go up.
Living a cheap life can have consequences.

Thats obviously not the case. The petitions from the residents about more fire safety are proof to that.
Are you suggesting all those people living in that now burnt out block were living a cheap life? These people were living in the richest borough in the country. Are they cheap because they couldn't afford to get out off Lancaster West, the only substantial council estate that Rotten borough has.


Then the government should have raised the rent higher than the cost to fit the sprinkler system and made us some good money.

What an incredibly insensitive suggestion. They haven't even found all the dead yet and you're suggesting they could of saved themselves if only they didn't want to live on the cheap and we could of made money out of them by screwing them over for the very thing that could of saved their lives.
UFB

[MTVN]

Thoughtful article from Dan Hannan

We are still at that stage in the aftermath of the Grenfell horror. Obviously, we need to find out what went wrong, and assess whether other places are at risk. If there is evidence of criminal negligence, of course that negligence should be punished. But the discussion over the past two days has gone well beyond these things. The country is bellowing for a scapegoat big enough and monstrous enough to bear responsibility for such an outrage. The idea of a tragic accident simply won’t do.

It’s easy to see why. Try reading the story of 12-year-old Jessica Urbano, whose mother got a desperate message on her phone at 1.39 am saying “Mummy! Come and get me!” I defy any sentient adult to look at that little girl’s photograph without choking up. Now multiply that grief by the number of missing people and you can see why we want to find someone to blame: it’s the easiest way to make sense of these abominations.

Like our pre-modern ancestors, we have an innate sense that, for such a horrifying event to have happened, there must have been great wickedness at work. Like them, we disagree as to who was responsible for the wickedness. Usually, though, just as they did, we blame whomever we already happened not to like. Glancing at this morning’s newspapers, I see that the Guardian blames inequality, the Mail blames eco-regulations, the Express blames EU rules and the Mirror blames the Tories. Simon Jenkins, that champion of harmonious and well-proportioned architecture, blames tower-blocks. Owen Jones, my favourite radical, blames racketeering landlords. For all I know, one or more of these villains may indeed be at fault; but, for now, it is mainly guesswork.

Guesswork and, perhaps, a measure of displacement activity. Leftists are raging at Theresa May for meeting emergency workers instead of victims. Rightists are horrified that Jeremy Corbyn, revealing himself in a crisis, has called for the requisitioning of private houses. Both things are easier to do than to try, even for a few seconds, to imagine what Jessica Urbano’s parents are going through.

https://capx.co/grenfell-tower-a-great-tragedy-is-not-always-proof-of-great-wickedness/

[arista]

Sprinklers will never be brought into the flats themselves due to insurance issues.


Thing will change
a wet LCD TV
but still Alive

[arista]

In many high rise flats in Brighton, East Sussex
there are now fitting Sprinklers
in all flats.

[DemolitionRed]

A new district heating scheme was installed in Grenfell Tower in the rehab. completed in 2015, whether using the original concrete ducts or not I don't know. The issue which occurs to me is what was the effect of this ducting (old and possibly new) in compromising the fire and smoke sealing of flats and floors which is crucial in a block like this?

Apparently after the rehab. a complete a new gas supply system was found to be necessary and was installed through the whole block.

I heard no mention of these possibilities yesterday, but today for the first time I heard a fire prevention expert on Radio 4 mention "heating pipes" as a possible vector for smoke or flame transmission across what are supposed to be internal barriers.

Nevertheless... the external cladding, again the cheapo option when a safer one was available, seems to be the main suspect for breaching or, rather, bypassing the internal fire barriers at present. If that turns out to be either the whole or part of the case, then unfortunately sprinkler systems in the flats would have made little or no difference.

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/06/16/16/4178E28C00000578-4611482-Singer_Lily_Allen_joined_protesters_from_across_Lo ndon_to_gather-a-128_1497627783452.jpg
Lilly Allen also protesting
she was on Ch4HD news last night for 10mins debate

[Crimson Dynamo]

you dont think kids would be stupid enough to target cladding tower blocks and try to set a panel alight for a laugh do you?

i mean like in the ensuing weeks

[arista]

you dont think kids would be stupid enough to target cladding tower blocks and try to set a panel alight for a laugh do you?

No
they know how it started
faulty fridge jammed against a window
so the fire Got out that way
once on the Plastics cladding, outside
no one could stop it
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/06/16/07/416872A100000578-4609922-Many_residents_who_gathered_outside_the_smoldering _ruins_of_the_-a-11_1497595098654.jpg

[the truth]

A new district heating scheme was installed in Grenfell Tower in the rehab. completed in 2015, whether using the original concrete ducts or not I don't know. The issue which occurs to me is what was the effect of this ducting (old and possibly new) in compromising the fire and smoke sealing of flats and floors which is crucial in a block like this?

Apparently after the rehab. a complete a new gas supply system was found to be necessary and was installed through the whole block.

I heard no mention of these possibilities yesterday, but today for the first time I heard a fire prevention expert on Radio 4 mention "heating pipes" as a possible vector for smoke or flame transmission across what are supposed to be internal barriers.

Nevertheless... the external cladding, again the cheapo option when a safer one was available, seems to be the main suspect for breaching or, rather, bypassing the internal fire barriers at present. If that turns out to be either the whole or part of the case, then unfortunately sprinkler systems in the flats would have made little or no difference.

sprinklers might have saved them enough time to save more lives...one smart lady ran a bath to flood the flat and that gave her and her kids an extra hour to play with as the firemen came to her rescue

[Crimson Dynamo]

sprinklers might have saved them enough time to save more lives...one smart lady ran a bath to flood the flat and that gave her and her kids an extra hour to play with as the firemen came to her rescue

i think i am right that there has never been a death in a sprinkler fitted building?

[Crimson Dynamo]

uh oh getting violent in street around council protest. LBC reporting a cameraman just got beaten up

The 30C forecast for the weekend could likely lead to riots in London

[DemolitionRed]

sprinklers might have saved them enough time to save more lives...one smart lady ran a bath to flood the flat and that gave her and her kids an extra hour to play with as the firemen came to her rescue

Running a bath is a really good idea in a fire like this so well done that mother.

Even if there was such a system. it's likely that it wouldn't have been properly maintained and wouldn't have worked, just like the fire alarm and emergency lighting systems weren't and duly didn't work. (See the Grenfell Action Groups blog. It really is worth a read https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/ )

[smudgie]

If new fire regulations state that any residential building over 14 floors must be built with a sprinkler system then surely the law should also apply to any building being redeveloped.
120 flats at an approx price of three thousand six hundred quid each to install sprinklers, less than half a million, the total budget was near £10 million.
Surely the safety should come above the tarting up.
Not laying the blame at anybody in particular, if the cladding wasn't banned and councils all over the country have used them then that would cover all parties.
The question for me is why it wasn't banned?
How did it pass fire regulations?

[UserSince2005]

****ing scum.

[UserSince2005]

What kind of people use the death of innocent children.
To enjoy violent protests.
****ing animals.
pathetic.

[arista]

The PM has give £5million fund
to the help all from the Tower.


Ref : SkyNewsHD /BBCnewsHD

[arista]

The PM just visited some, finally ,
in the community
with a large Police backing

[arista]

['I tried to get out the window
but it was melted': Grenfell Tower survivor
'tripped over bodies' as he
desperately scrambled to
safety wrapped in a soaked jumper
Christos Fairbairn, 41, lived
on the 15th floor of the block
but got to safety
Woken at 12.45am with banging
on door and smoke began
pouring into flat
His window was melted
and he was forced through
smoke and intense heat
He said: 'I was tripping over bodies.
On one of the floors I tripped
badly and fell, as I looked up
I saw the face of a dead man']


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4610642/Grenfell-Tower-survivor-tripped-bodies-way.html#ixzz4kBY2n7O4

[smudgie]

BBC just announced that the figure is now expected to be 70 .:bawling:

[UserSince2005]

What kind of people use the death of innocent children.
To enjoy violent protests.
****ing animals.
pathetic.

luckily calm has been restore. i was worried it was going to get out of hand.

[DemolitionRed]

The PM has give £5million fund
to the help all from the Tower.


Ref : SkyNewsHD /BBCnewsHD

A quick reckoning makes that just over £40K per family

[Jian Yang]

Lily Allen makes me sick. Who does she think she is? Pushing her own agenda as per. She'll enter politics soon, you watch!

Her faux outrage could wait, residents and victims families should be no1 priority right now. Stupid Middle Class SJW hasn't got a clue!

[UserSince2005]

Lily Allen makes me sick. Who does she think she is? Pushing her own agenda as per. She'll enter politics soon, you watch!

Her faux outrage could wait, residents and victims families should be no1 priority right now. Stupid Middle Class SJW hasn't got a clue!

shes an ugly fugly hag demon.

[Cherie]

A new district heating scheme was installed in Grenfell Tower in the rehab. completed in 2015, whether using the original concrete ducts or not I don't know. The issue which occurs to me is what was the effect of this ducting (old and possibly new) in compromising the fire and smoke sealing of flats and floors which is crucial in a block like this?

Apparently after the rehab. a complete a new gas supply system was found to be necessary and was installed through the whole block.

I heard no mention of these possibilities yesterday, but today for the first time I heard a fire prevention expert on Radio 4 mention "heating pipes" as a possible vector for smoke or flame transmission across what are supposed to be internal barriers.

Nevertheless... the external cladding, again the cheapo option when a safer one was available, seems to be the main suspect for breaching or, rather, bypassing the internal fire barriers at present. If that turns out to be either the whole or part of the case, then unfortunately sprinkler systems in the flats would have made little or no difference.


But if the fire started in a kitchen and a sprinkler had been installed the fire might have been put out before it could make its way outside, ifs and buts but they might have been more chance of it being contained

[Cherie]

A quick reckoning makes that just over £40K per family

It's emergency funds for food and clothing

[Beso]

Has anyone got a link to the new video of the original fire, the one bbc just played?

[DemolitionRed]

It's emergency funds for food and clothing

Oh ok ty

As for the sprinkler system: Like I said in my following post, all these safety systems are only any good if they have been maintained and by the sound of things, no fire assistance was being maintained in this tower block.

[Beso]

It's emergency funds for food and clothing

And funeral costs, extra travel expense for school or work tthe families occur will come from a seperate fund.

[UserSince2005]

TM is such an angel.

I'm happy she is doing all she can to help these poor people.

[hijaxers]

Death count is now 70 !

[Cherie]

Oh ok ty

As for the sprinkler system: Like I said in my following post, all these safety systems are only any good if they have been maintained and by the sound of things, no fire assistance was being maintained in this tower block.

Fair point

[Beso]

Lily Allen makes me sick. Who does she think she is? Pushing her own agenda as per. She'll enter politics soon, you watch!

Her faux outrage could wait, residents and victims families should be no1 priority right now. Stupid Middle Class SJW hasn't got a clue!



https://youtu.be/DEKik5_987g

[JTM45]

Death count is now 70 !

That's dreadful!!!

They must be getting much further into the building for the figure to increase so much today.

[Shaun]

Death count is now 70 !

Are you sure? I've heard 70 being floated around as a figure for the number of people missing, but not confirmed dead?

[user104658]

Are you sure? I've heard 70 being floated around as a figure for the number of people missing, but not confirmed dead?
I don't mean to be harsh but at this point, if they are still missing and were definitely inside, then they are dead.

[Shaun]

Well sure, that's likely, just haven't seen it announced as a confirmed toll anywhere.

[Beso]

At least 70 dead and missing is how they worded it.

[user104658]

I doubt the structure is anywhere near safe enough for them to be properly searching yet... Sadly I expect there to be quite a few more than 70 dead.

I don't really know what to say about this thread to be honest. Watching it descend into the same tribal bickering as every other thread. Just totally ****ing wrong. That doesn't apply to everyone but it does apply equally to all sides. Gobsmacked.

[Crimson Dynamo]

TM is such an angel.

I'm happy she is doing all she can to help these poor people.

Yes she is a good Christian woman, it really showed when she avoided the commoners when she eventually turned up to see the tower..

:umm2:

[Jian Yang]

https://youtu.be/DEKik5_987g

Silly women :fist:

[y.winter]

Lily does have a point. Keeping it on 17 when it's closer to 100 is ridiculous. Including the missing ones, who at this point are clearly dead.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I doubt the structure is anywhere near safe enough for them to be properly searching yet... Sadly I expect there to be quite a few more than 70 dead.

I don't really know what to say about this thread to be honest. Watching it descend into the same tribal bickering as every other thread. Just totally ****ing wrong. That doesn't apply to everyone but it does apply equally to all sides. Gobsmacked.

yes i wish we had a candle lit vigil instead and we all just typed "my thoughts and prayers are with the families, RIP" 100 times a day



of course your posts have been exemplary as i am sure you already have recognised yourself...

[Jian Yang]

Lily does have a point. Keeping it on 17 when it's closer to 100 is ridiculous. Including the missing ones, who at this point are clearly dead.

Her point isn't exclusive to her though. She is pushing it to suit her own Labourtine agenda. She's tweeting about the EDL now :shrug:

[user104658]

yes i wish we had a candle lit vigil instead and we all just typed "my thoughts and prayers are with the families, RIP" 100 times a day



of course your posts have been exemplary as i am sure you already have recognised yourself...
No matter how sarcastic you want to be about it, the number of people using this as a points scoring exercise in the same old tired political battles as every other thread... is repulsive.

[Crimson Dynamo]

No matter how sarcastic you want to be about it, the number of people using this as a points scoring exercise in the same old tired political battles as every other thread... is repulsive.

yes like when i pointed out about sub-letting (which all media have written about today) and you tried to make it political...

as you say

repulsive

:facepalm:

[user104658]

yes like when i pointed out about sub-letting (which all media have written about today) and you tried to make it political...

as you say

repulsive

:facepalm:
You're not going to goad me into getting into it here LT. Carry on it you must, I'm 100% done with this thread. It's only going to get worse.

[Cherie]

If reports are true 2 quid a square meter more would have got a fire resistant cladding at a cost of 5 grand for the block ..s you are spending 9 million but you can't find 5k?

[Kizzy]

The residents of Kensington have united in their grief and anger, my thoughts are with them and I hope both they and the victims get justice.

[Crimson Dynamo]

do you think this tower is in danger

:think:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3116377/Five-bedroom-One-Hyde-Park-apartment-costing-75MILLION-expensive-market.html

[Crimson Dynamo]

You're not going to goad me into getting into it here LT. Carry on it you must, I'm 100% done with this thread. It's only going to get worse.

yes, thank goodness you have not been constantly posting in it since it was made..

[smudgie]

do you think this tower is in danger

:think:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3116377/Five-bedroom-One-Hyde-Park-apartment-costing-75MILLION-expensive-market.html

Ugh, all that dusting.

[DemolitionRed]

I doubt the structure is anywhere near safe enough for them to be properly searching yet... Sadly I expect there to be quite a few more than 70 dead.

I don't really know what to say about this thread to be honest. Watching it descend into the same tribal bickering as every other thread. Just totally ****ing wrong. That doesn't apply to everyone but it does apply equally to all sides. Gobsmacked.

The fire department have said that the top three floors are too dangerous to fully investigate yet. That's 27 flats that can't be got to. They think the eventual figure is going to be around 120-150 but it could take a very long time to discover who perished in the building because all evidence of guests staying over was destroyed with the building.

Its the same on all serious debate forums atm TS, this sites no different.

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/06/16/20/article-4611482-417A302A00000578-319_964x544.jpg

[Kizzy]

There is no bickering TS everyone want the same outcome, answers and accountability. I would say the nation as well as TIBB are pretty unified on that.

[Beso]

There is no bickering TS everyone want the same outcome, answers and accountability. I would say the nation as well as TIBB are pretty unified on that.

:clap1:

[Beso]

People need to back off and let the authorities get on with the job in hand. We saw what happened when she did visit so we can now understand the security risk that caused her not to visit.

[smudgie]

There is no bickering TS everyone want the same outcome, answers and accountability. I would say the nation as well as TIBB are pretty unified on that.

Indeed we do Kizzy.
This must never be allowed to happen again.

[jet]

Those poor people have gone through an horrific nightmare and venting their anger towards a specific person is a release of a kind.
I doubt that any one person is to blame for this terrible tragedy, but in the minds of those who understandably need someone to focus their blame upon, May was an obvious target because she does seem cold and aloof. I am now of the opinion that really she is just a very reserved woman who also isn't a 'people person' but a 'practical person' and the day following the tragedy she was up to her eyes with meetings dealing with 101 aspects of the actual practicalities of sorting out all the different things that need to be done. She will look back on the last few weeks as some of the worst in her life, I'm sure. I don't know how she keeps going tbh.
And her troubles fade in comparison to what the people who have lost their loved ones in this horrific nightmare have had to suffer, the firemen who will have to live with what they seen etc. Just awful, all round.
Nobody over the years did anything deliberately to hurt anyone, whether it was Tories or Labour or the London Council etc. Everyone makes mistakes and miscalculations and those who are found to be responsible will have to live with that for the rest of their lives.
I hope everyone involved in whatever way finds peace eventually and something good comes out of this awful tragedy for every single person. A big ask I know.

[Jian Yang]

Rydon won't survive this. No one will offer them contracts now. Rydon have been know in the construction trade as 'cowboys' for years and years. It's all hearsay i know, but some of the work i've seem then do is so shoddy.

[Kazanne]

People need to back off and let the authorities get on with the job in hand. We saw what happened when she did visit so we can now understand the security risk that caused her not to visit.

Exactly Parmnion,and as for that mob (some of who were nothing to do with the fire) who stormed that council building,they really aren't helpful as it ended in the building being shut down and nothing getting sorted,From what I can see things are being done,but something like that cannot be done overnight,it takes time,all those people will be rehomes and sorted out,just give people time to do it, You cannot sort things out properly with baying mobs at your feet all the time,hell there are still people who need to be found,lets do that first.I understand the anger of the people caught up in this,but those jumping on the bandwagon to get themselves seen need to help instead of hinder.

[Cherie]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCf4B2UXUAEq58R?format=jpg


Nice summation, she has been a trooper during recent events

[Crimson Dynamo]

People need to back off and let the authorities get on with the job in hand. We saw what happened when she did visit so we can now understand the security risk that caused her not to visit.

er its the "authorities" who are to blame

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4612690/How-inferno-took-hold-Grenfell-Tower.html

shocking

[Kizzy]

z1Hy3I0jJVk

[Jessica.]

I just shared that video on Facebook, it's tragic. :(

[Brillopad]

z1Hy3I0jJVk

She's upset but not everyone has died, many escaped, we know that, just as we know the victims that need help now are those who did survive but lost everything.

[Crimson Dynamo]

z1Hy3I0jJVk

she is not making any sense and should not have been interviewed, this is what happens when too many untrained people have microphones

[Kizzy]

She's upset but not everyone has died, many escaped, we know that, just as we know the victims that need help now are those who did survive but lost everything.

She has a point though who are they? Where are they?
Where is the list of residents?

[arista]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4612690/How-inferno-took-hold-Grenfell-Tower.html

shocking


Yes the Fire on the outside
taking a angle start

[arista]

she is not making any sense and should not have been interviewed, this is what happens when too many untrained people have microphones


yes pressTV banned on UK TV

[Kizzy]

yes pressTV banned on UK TV

Is her interview not good enough?... The station not credible enough?

Find ANYONE reporting for ANY media outlet that says ANY different. The very same vid is on the evening standard site too.

Here's some more then

https://www.thecanary.co/2017/06/17/mainstream-media-interviewed-kensington-man-about-grenfell-didnt-well-video/

https://www.thecanary.co/2017/06/16/labour-mp-david-lammy/

i8KDEmVjpzA

[Kizzy]

What about mr small spaces?

wSYUp8j8P1Q

[Crimson Dynamo]

Is her interview not good enough?... The station not credible enough?

Find ANYONE reporting for ANY media outlet that says ANY different. The very same vid is on the evening standard site too.

Here's some more then

https://www.thecanary.co/2017/06/17/mainstream-media-interviewed-kensington-man-about-grenfell-didnt-well-video/

https://www.thecanary.co/2017/06/16/labour-mp-david-lammy/

i8KDEmVjpzA

Kizzy no one here takes The Canary seriously, you must know that by now?


sorry what points she was making are the ones you are on about, she was just ranting?

[Tom4784]

z1Hy3I0jJVk

It's a difficult one, when I first heard the potential number of victims were in the hundreds, I assumed it was tabloid sensationalism but now that's becoming a reality it's grotesque how those numbers are being ignored. I suppose people don't want to announce deaths that haven't been confirmed but I don't think the approach they are taking atm is working. It has the effect of them seemingly sweeping everything under the carpet.

[Crimson Dynamo]

70 still missing according to reports and 30 confirmed so must be around 100?

[Kizzy]

Kizzy no one here takes The Canary seriously, you must know that by now?


sorry what points she was making are the ones you are on about, she was just ranting?

Sorry I don't understand you when you're trolling.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Sorry I don't understand you when you're trolling.

its easier to answer the question than to deflect, you have already tried that tack and failed

I am not the one posting links from...the canary


you are

[Kizzy]

its easier to answer the question than to deflect, you have already tried that tack and failed

I am not the one posting links from...the canary


you are

ok

[Crimson Dynamo]

How even the left wing New Statesman describes The Canary:

The Canary. Yes, those click-thirsty conspiracy mongers over on the alt left “news” site


http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/media/2017/01/what-jokes-would-canary-allow-charlie-brooker-make-about-jeremy-corbyn


alt-left click bait is not needed on Tibb thanks

[Crimson Dynamo]

Police now confirm 58 dead

this gradual drip drip of death toll aint going to play well

[Cherie]

Police now confirm 58 dead

this gradual drip drip of death toll aint going to play well

I don't think it's deliberate, the integrity of the building is an issue, and I would imagine sifting through the debris is painstakingly slow ?

[Crimson Dynamo]

I don't think it's deliberate, the integrity of the building is an issue, and I would imagine sifting through the debris is painstakingly slow ?

i just wish they would say "look we have 58 bodies confirmed dead. We still have 70 missing so they are deffo dead too so that is 128 dead give or take"?

[Brillopad]

How even the left wing New Statesman describes The Canary:

The Canary. Yes, those click-thirsty conspiracy mongers over on the alt left “news” site


http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/media/2017/01/what-jokes-would-canary-allow-charlie-brooker-make-about-jeremy-corbyn


alt-left click bait is not needed on Tibb thanks

That made for a good read LT. It is annoying when people only post from the same two papers as if they are some kind of legal document that can't be challenged, especially when they criticise the sources of others - demonstrating an almost obsessive distain for one paper in particular.

The Independent and the Canary are just left-leaning papers with not only an opinion, but more importantly - an AGENDA. Their word is not gospel.

[Kazanne]

I don't think it's deliberate, the integrity of the building is an issue, and I would imagine sifting through the debris is painstakingly slow ?

I agree here,it will be a slow process if it is to be done properly,If it's rushed and something or someone is missed people will be up in arms again,let the services do their jobs ffs.:wavey:

[Crimson Dynamo]

The firefighters only managed to get to the 12th floor

[Brillopad]

The firefighters only managed to get to the 12th floor

The baby was thrown from the 9th floor, has anyone heard whether the mother survived?

[Crimson Dynamo]

The baby was thrown from the 9th floor, has anyone heard whether the mother survived?

I think it was the 5th floor

[Crimson Dynamo]

Bereaved families need justice - lawyer


A rally has been taking place in Buchanan Street in Glasgow in support of the people of Grenfell Tower.

Human rights lawyer Aamer Anwar told the crowds: "The bereaved families need truth, accountability and justice.

"I demand arrests, a criminal trial before a judge and jury... those responsible should be incarcerated for murder.

"It's not a tragedy, it's a crime. The people in Grenfell died because they were poor."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-london-40239008

[arista]

The Police Chief
in charge has said he does not care why
some have not contacted him ,
that they are out of the building
but he has asked again please contact them.


Ref : LBC

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3818464/drunk-becomes-the-latest-unlikely-hero-in-the-grenfell-tower-horror-fire-after-he-randomly-hit-the-fourth-floor-lift-button/

does anyone know why the fridge guy did not try to put out the fire or call for immediate help (if indeed reports are to be believed)?

[arista]

They said he did contact the Fire Dept
and they came
putting out his internal fire
but as his faulty fridge was next to the Window
the Fire on the outside cladding was on the way


Ref: a BBC report.

[Crimson Dynamo]

They said he did contact the Fire Dept
and they came
putting out his internal fire
but as his faulty fridge was next to the Window
the Fire on the outside cladding was on the way


Ref: a BBC report.

pretty damning evidence against the cladding if so

[arista]

http://e3.365dm.com/17/06/536x302/6df20e285ab2eac17a8898001e9bb172b1e2e8c9aab6edf494 a6ea73983bb352_3980348.jpg?20170617165754
The group of residents was
brought together by Graham Tomlin,
the Bishop of Kensington,
went to Downing Street


PM: Support for Grenfell fire victims 'was not good enough'
http://news.sky.com/story/may-meets-grenfell-fire-victims-and-volunteers-in-downing-street-10918431

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://e3.365dm.com/17/06/536x302/6df20e285ab2eac17a8898001e9bb172b1e2e8c9aab6edf494 a6ea73983bb352_3980348.jpg?20170617165754
The group of residents was
brought together by Graham Tomlin,
the Bishop of Kensington,
went to Downing Street


PM: Support for Grenfell fire victims 'was not good enough'
http://news.sky.com/story/may-meets-grenfell-fire-victims-and-volunteers-in-downing-street-10918431

Good for them

sadly, it wont be long till the ALT.LEFT will hijack Grenfell

i would imagine the Socialist Worker placard printer will be already on overtime

disgusting

[Shaun]

LT are you deliberately trying to be Alex Jones?

[Crimson Dynamo]

LT are you deliberately trying to be Alex Jones?

The lady from the One show?

[arista]

The lady from the One show?
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/07/16/01/2A8EE7CC00000578-0-Relaxed_regime_Alex_admits_she_doesn_t_have_a_stri ct_jogging_sch-a-118_1437006905373.jpg

[Cherie]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3818464/drunk-becomes-the-latest-unlikely-hero-in-the-grenfell-tower-horror-fire-after-he-randomly-hit-the-fourth-floor-lift-button/

does anyone know why the fridge guy did not try to put out the fire or call for immediate help (if indeed reports are to be believed)?

The fire was put out according to the neighbour opposite, I guess as the flammable material was at the centre of the cladding it was burning unnoticed for a while


Philip Hammond claims the cladding used is banned in the U.K., so two questions why was it sold in such a large quantity and why did building regs sign off on it ..

[arista]

The fire was put out according to the neighbour opposite, I guess as the flammable material was at the centre of the cladding it was burning unnoticed for a while


Philip Hammond claims the cladding used is banned in the U.K., so two questions why was it sold in such a large quantity and why did building regs sign off on it ..


Yes the Flames
climbing the Building at a Angle
due to the slight wind

[Beso]

The fire was put out according to the neighbour opposite, I guess as the flammable material was at the centre of the cladding it was burning unnoticed for a while


Philip Hammond claims the cladding used is banned in the U.K., so two questions why was it sold in such a large quantity and why did building regs sign off on it ..

I saw a video of the firemen tackling the original fire..they were outside the property firing water up at the window but it was hitting below the flames which were climbing upwards...i cant find the video anywhere now...funny that. Unfortunatly it looked like a botched effort at fire figuting.

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/06/17/21/417B5C3C00000578-0-image-a-36_1497731708952.jpg

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/06/17/21/417B5C3C00000578-0-image-a-36_1497731708952.jpg

not looking good for the claddings in these pics

[arista]

not looking good for the claddings in these pics


Yes the Bosses of claddings are now in HIDING

[arista]

Grenfell Tower families
to receive minimum
of £5,500 from No 10.

http://news.sky.com/story/grenfell-tower-families-to-receive-minimum-of-1635500-from-no-10-10919544

[arista]

[Grenfell Tower cladding is banned in UK,
Government says
The cladding used during a recent refurbishment at Grenfell Tower comes under fresh scrutiny as the political fallout intensifies.]


http://news.sky.com/story/grenfell-tower-cladding-is-banned-in-uk-government-says-10919319

[Beso]

I hate saying this but the evidemce i have seen and gathered is.pointing to poor fire fighting and the reactions needed.

[user104658]

Grenfell Tower families
to receive minimum
of £5,500 from No 10.

http://news.sky.com/story/grenfell-tower-families-to-receive-minimum-of-1635500-from-no-10-10919544
£5500 for the loss of everything they owned?? That's more of an insult than a gesture to be ****ing frank .
I hate saying this but the evidemce i have seen and gathered is.pointing to poor fire fighting and the reactions needed.
Boris' fault then? I wonder if he'll have more to say then "get stuffed" this time...

[Beso]

£5500 for the loss of everything they owned?? That's more of an insult than a gesture to be ****ing frank
^^^^ not that poir and crammed in then.

Boris' fault then? I wonder if he'll have more to say then "get stuffed" this time...
^^^It had more to do with the effort rather than politics.

[Beso]

[QUOTE=Toy Soldier;9370237]£5500 for the loss of everything they owned?? That's more of an insult than a gesture .......




Not so poor and crammed in now then i see.. hypocrisy doea help when one is trying to make a pathetic political point.:hehe:

[user104658]

Not so poor and crammed in now then i see.. hypocrisy doea help when one is trying to make a pathetic political point.:hehe:

How is that hypocrisy? Stacked 20+ floors high in small, unsafe apartments IS a crappy way to live, I'm not going back on that. Do you disagree for some reason? Are you arguing that they were in GOOD accommodation? I think they might disagree.

Or is your argument that... If they were "so poor", they would perhaps be happy / grateful to receive a paltry five grand as compensation for this ****ing nightmare? :facepalm:

[Cherie]

£5500 for the loss of everything they owned?? That's more of an insult than a gesture to be ****ing frank .

Boris' fault then? I wonder if he'll have more to say then "get stuffed" this time...

There is 5 million sllocated and more if needed, the 5,500 is an initial payment, they will get 500.00 in cash and 5,000 into their bank sccounts so they can buy the essentials, once they have been rehomed more money will be made available

[smudgie]

There is 5 million sllocated and more if needed, the 5,500 is an initial payment, they will get 500.00 in cash and 5,000 into their bank sccounts so they can buy the essentials, once they have been rehomed more money will be made available

Yes, and once it all gets sorted they will hopefully get full compensation for the absolute horror they have had to face.

[Beso]

How is that hypocrisy? Stacked 20+ floors high in small, unsafe apartments IS a crappy way to live, I'm not going back on that. Do you disagree for some reason? Are you arguing that they were in GOOD accommodation? I think they might disagree.

Or is your argument that... If they were "so poor", they would perhaps be happy / grateful to receive a paltry five grand as compensation for this ****ing nightmare? :facepalm:

I get a weekly wage... not going to divulge it but its not above 500...i am sitting looking around my house thinking there aint 5 grands worth in here...even though i have a 49inch samsung Qdot tv.

You brought up how they would all he crammed in like sardines(even though thats not what you said)

So you were basically saying they were poor...just like the rent a mob is saying its a rich poor divide...stuff like that breeds hatred.


I work..looking around i would snap up that cash.on my rented property that i aint even got house insurnce on bcause im so supposedly poor because i live in a building more than 6 stories high and all the people who pigeon hole me think im poor.

[Beso]

Yes, and once it all gets sorted they will hopefully get full compensation for the absolute horror they have had to face.

And if they dont..thats when i will be up the road giving it waldie.

[Kazanne]

There is 5 million sllocated and more if needed, the 5,500 is an initial payment, they will get 500.00 in cash and 5,000 into their bank sccounts so they can buy the essentials, once they have been rehomed more money will be made available

Yes,people don't listen or don't want to,this payment is just to help them NOW,they will get more as and when it is needed.

[Beso]

Yes,people don't listen or don't want to,this payment is just to help them NOW,they will get more as and when it is needed.

Whatever it takes are the words your looking for.

[arista]

"£5,500 for the loss of everything they owned?? That's more of an insult than a gesture to be ****ing frank . "

No its just a Start payment, TS
better than nothing

[Kizzy]

The body count has been raised

Grenfell Tower fire: police raise death toll to 79
Metropolitan police say five people have been formally identified as having died in tower block blaze, and 74 are missing presumed dead

I am really confused there were 120 flats over 24 floors that equates to say 550 residents ... 79 are dead, 74 taken to hospital and 74 missing... Where is everyone else then? :/

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/19/grenfell-tower-fire-death-toll-rises-to-79-police-say

http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/14/where-is-grenfell-tower-and-how-many-people-live-there-6707624/

[y.winter]

79 confirmed now.
It takes way too long.

[Niamh.]

I hate saying this but the evidemce i have seen and gathered is.pointing to poor fire fighting and the reactions needed.

Well, the advice that the firefighters gave would be the correct advice in a block of apartments that were up to standard. Look at the photos that Arista posted and see how fast that went up, no fire fighters could stop that, the problem was clearly the building being totally sub standard health and safety wise

[Tom4784]

The company that owns that building and the government agency that okayed it despite not being up to scratch when it comes to Health and Safety are to blame.

[Kizzy]

Of course, and the wringing of hands in fear that we offend the government sickens me, a deathtrap encased in solid gold is still a deathtrap, they sanctioned that and they are accountable.
Time for the era of the teflon tory to END keep the pressure ON!

[Northern Monkey]

Absolutely awful.You can't imagine the terror being that high up and trapped in by flames with smoke suffocating you.
The speed and scale of the fire too was insane.

Heads need to roll for this.It must be criminal neglect at a minimum.Specially with illegal dangerous materials being used in the refurb.
Any other blocks in the country with this stuff on needs removing immediately,So what if they don't look pretty.
Also full fire safety checks need to be carried out on every tower block and i would imagine alot of money will need to be spent.No amount should be too much for people's safety.It's the bare minimum they deserve.

[Cherie]

Of course, and the wringing of hands in fear that we offend the government sickens me, a deathtrap encased in solid gold is still a deathtrap, they sanctioned that and they are accountable.
Time for the era of the teflon tory to END keep the pressure ON!

Who is wringing their hands? not seen one post in this thread defending the use of illegal cladding on this block or protecting the government, what we need to know before we start the finger pointing is why it was signed off by the council, was it a massive backhander to building regs, was it a scam by the contractor who invoiced for the non flammable and put the flammable version up, or was it down to cost cutting, though if as has been suggested that the cladding is banned for use in buildings over a certain height that would seem not to be the case, unless you can answer these questions Kizzy like the rest of the country we will have to wait and see

[Kizzy]

Who is wringing their hands? not seen one post in this thread defending the use of illegal cladding on this block or protecting the government, what we need to know before we start the finger pointing is why it was signed off by the council, was it a massive backhander to building regs, was it a scam by the contractor who invoiced for the non flammable and put the flammable version up, or was it down to cost cutting, though if as has been suggested that the cladding is banned for use in buildings over a certain height that would seem not to be the case, unless you can answer these questions Kizzy like the rest of the country we will have to wait and see

Really?... I see many apologists, may couldn't have seen the victims, it wasn't SAFE :/ the little old queen went! So that's rubbish.

The govt are culpable they facilitated the council in hiring these cowboys by scaling back on regulations and failing to implement recommendations from failures in the past..Why? MONEY, they were stockpiling millions claiming that improvements were being made cutting corners and gerry building so they could have their £274 million nest egg... Only Kensington lost it's conservative seat didn't it so that was exposed.

[the truth]

Its the council who should have been overseeing this, the laws are set and the council have failed to apply them properly

[Withano]

79 confirmed now.
It takes way too long.

It really does. I would really love an estimate so I dont have to keep waking up to see an unexpected change, but I dont think any professional is willing to give one... which I understand. Just wanna know how much long the number will rise for..

[DemolitionRed]

I hate saying this but the evidemce i have seen and gathered is.pointing to poor fire fighting and the reactions needed.

Oh no you don't... you're not going to pass the buck to the men and women who risk their lives trying to get people out of burning buildings. Buildings like this are expected to have fireproof concrete floor plates that adequately retain fires within tall buildings. This building did have floor plates but during the re-furb they were not extended outward to meet the cladding.

Fires often happen in high rise buildings but they don't normally go up like a burning chimney. The only exit point was black with darkness because there was no fire escape lighting, so its no surprise residents were asked to remain in their flats. Oh wait a minute though... there was fire escape lighting, but guess what, it didn't work! Mainly, the batteries needed to be renewed, and they weren't. The reason given was that the allocated budget would not stretch to their replacement!

[DemolitionRed]

Why has Boris not been to visit both in his role as a London MP but also as the former Mayor of London between 2008 & 2016 when the work was approved and the bulk of it carried out?

[Cherie]

Really?... I see many apologists, may couldn't have seen the victims, it wasn't SAFE :/ the little old queen went! So that's rubbish.

The govt are culpable they facilitated the council in hiring these cowboys by scaling back on regulations and failing to implement recommendations from failures in the past..Why? MONEY, they were stockpiling millions claiming that improvements were being made cutting corners and gerry building so they could have their £274 million nest egg... Only Kensington lost it's conservative seat didn't it so that was exposed.

What's the Queen going got do with anything, Jeremy went as well, as far as I know being signed off by building regs is still a thing, so that is why we will have to wait for the enquiry to see why they got their job so catastrophically wrong

[Kizzy]

I saw a video of the firemen tackling the original fire..they were outside the property firing water up at the window but it was hitting below the flames which were climbing upwards...i cant find the video anywhere now...funny that. Unfortunatly it looked like a botched effort at fire figuting.

I have no words... I have seen some ****ing stupid posts on this forum, this one takes the crown.

[Niamh.]

I saw a video of the firemen tackling the original fire..they were outside the property firing water up at the window but it was hitting below the flames which were climbing upwards...i cant find the video anywhere now...funny that. Unfortunatly it looked like a botched effort at fire figuting.

That's how you fight a fire.

[DemolitionRed]

The company that owns that building and the government agency that okayed it despite not being up to scratch when it comes to Health and Safety are to blame.

It's an ALMO, a managing agent. The relationship between the ALMO and the council is that of agent and principal. That means the tenants legal relationship is, as always, with the council, and the council is liable for whatever their agent does or fails to do. I know what the media are saying but its an error to describe the agent as the landlord. They're simply not, the council is.

[Vicky.]

The body count has been raised

Grenfell Tower fire: police raise death toll to 79
Metropolitan police say five people have been formally identified as having died in tower block blaze, and 74 are missing presumed dead

I am really confused there were 120 flats over 24 floors that equates to say 550 residents ... 79 are dead, 74 taken to hospital and 74 missing... Where is everyone else then? :/

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/19/grenfell-tower-fire-death-toll-rises-to-79-police-say

http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/14/where-is-grenfell-tower-and-how-many-people-live-there-6707624/

Yes it doesn't add up at all does it. All seeming a bit weird now.

[smudgie]

More people than originally thought must have escaped the fire.
If they are saying 74 missing presumed dead (not identified yet) and 5 identified then that would account for the 79 estimate.
Maybe it will go up if people have not been reported missing.
Hopefully this will mean that so many more people than was originally thought of have survived.

[Vicky.]

Aren't the protests about the council refusing to say whos actually accounted for? Thats what I got out of it all anyway. If thats actually happening then it seems rather sinister that they won't confirm who is alive and missing.

Honestly, I am trying to avoid this topic so have only caught bits and pieces on the news. Everytime it comes on I turn over because the thought of being stuck in there is just horrific :S

[Crimson Dynamo]

why is their not a list of residents

take the list and tick off the ones not seen since the fire

mark them dead


or am i missing something apart from subletting?

[Vicky.]

why is their not a list of residents

take the list and tick off the ones not seen since the fire

mark them dead


or am i missing something apart from subletting?

Yes, exactly. Anyone still 'missing' realistically is dead. If they are on holiday or something their families can tell the council this surely?

Also this 5.5k per resident, last I heard it was a 5m fund? 120 properties. Doesn't that work out closer to 50k per flat?! Say 4 people in each, thats 12.5k not 5.5. Which does sound very high but I guess theres hotels and such to pay for whilst housing is sorted. And this is assuming everyone got out safe. Which a lot didn't...so this 'fund' isn't true? 5.5k will help of course. But it will soon be eaten by hotel bills given they don't seem to be being housed anywhere...

[Northern Monkey]

Yes, exactly. Anyone still 'missing' realistically is dead. If they are on holiday or something their families can tell the council this surely?

Also this 5.5k per resident, last I heard it was a 5m fund? 120 properties. Doesn't that work out closer to 50k per flat?! Say 4 people in each, thats 12.5k not 5.5. Which does sound very high but I guess theres hotels and such to pay for whilst housing is sorted. And this is assuming everyone got out safe. Which a lot didn't...so this 'fund' isn't true? 5.5k will help of course. But it will soon be eaten by hotel bills given they don't seem to be being housed anywhere...

What about insurance too?Surely those who are not insured will get all their stuff replaced aswell?

Infact the insurance companies will probably contest any claims if this was due to negligence

[Kizzy]

In all honesty they would have a better chance of low level housing ( as opposed to high rise) further north :/

[Beso]

That's how you fight a fire.

No. This wasnt.

[Beso]

I have no words... I have seen some ****ing stupid posts on this forum, this one takes the crown.

Shut up until you see rhe video..good luck with that cause its been taken down off the internet.

[Cherie]

Yes, exactly. Anyone still 'missing' realistically is dead. If they are on holiday or something their families can tell the council this surely?

Also this 5.5k per resident, last I heard it was a 5m fund? 120 properties. Doesn't that work out closer to 50k per flat?! Say 4 people in each, thats 12.5k not 5.5. Which does sound very high but I guess theres hotels and such to pay for whilst housing is sorted. And this is assuming everyone got out safe. Which a lot didn't...so this 'fund' isn't true? 5.5k will help of course. But it will soon be eaten by hotel bills given they don't seem to be being housed anywhere...

There is 5 million sllocated and more if needed, the 5,500 is an initial payment, they will get 500.00 in cash and 5,000 into their bank sccounts so they can buy the essentials, once they have been rehomed more money will be made available


Seriously Vicky you only had to go back a page or a quick google to find the answer

[Vicky.]

Seriously Vicky you only had to go back a page or a quick google to find the answer

This is whats being claimed. I will believe it when I see it tbh..not really any reason to do it that way is there? Have seen videos today of survivers apparently being given a tenner from this fund. So many videos. So much anger. Can't really avoid it anymore even though it sticks in my head what the **** would you do if you were stuck at the top :S

[Cherie]

Aren't the protests about the council refusing to say whos actually accounted for? Thats what I got out of it all anyway. If thats actually happening then it seems rather sinister that they won't confirm who is alive and missing.

Honestly, I am trying to avoid this topic so have only caught bits and pieces on the news. Everytime it comes on I turn over because the thought of being stuck in there is just horrific :S

The protest are about the inability of the council to actually do anything positive, one woman and her daughter have had to move hotel 3 time, I can't say that I am surprised, a lot of people seem to be unable or unwilling to do the job they are paid to do, the council have been abysmal, they haven't even organised how to get the food/clothing donations to the victims, a simple enough task you would have thought

[Cherie]

According to the newly elected Labour MP some survivors have been sleeping in cars and in parks as they can't access the help they need and many more are still sleeping in a sports hall

[arista]

its now sadly 79 dead
http://news.sky.com/story/grenfell-tower-fire-dead-rises-to-79-10920100

[Brother Leon]

According to the newly elected Labour MP some survivors have been sleeping in cars and in parks as they can't access the help they need and many more are still sleeping in a sports hall

Yeah. Some have have been relocated out of London too and were pretty much told if they turned it down then they would be registered as voluntary homeless. The way they have been treated is sickening.

[Shaun]

This panorama on bbc1 :(

[Niamh.]

No. This wasnt.

So you're saying you know how to fight fires better than highly trained (and they are very highly trained) fire fighters?

[Kizzy]

What's the Queen going got do with anything, Jeremy went as well, as far as I know being signed off by building regs is still a thing, so that is why we will have to wait for the enquiry to see why they got their job so catastrophically wrong

Why was the excuse it wasn't secure for may when her maj went was my point.
what building regs?... the red tape had been cut I don't believe there would be any comebacks for substandard housing.

[Cherie]

Why was the excuse it wasn't secure for may when her maj went was my point.
what building regs?... the red tape had been cut I don't believe there would be any comebacks for substandard housing.

Al renovations have to be signed off by the council

[Beso]

So you're saying you know how to fight fires better than highly trained (and they are very highly trained) fire fighters?

No i am saying that when the fire is climbing out the house above the window you don't aim the water below the window which is what was happening in the video. The fire wasnt all that big at this time.

[user104658]

No i am saying that when the fire is climbing out the house above the window you don't aim the water below the window which is what was happening in the video. The fire wasnt all that big at this time.

You aim the water at the base of the fire because it then vaporizes into steam which then rises and both dampens the rest of the fire, and starves it of oxygen which it needs to continue to burn. Don't know if you've ever had an open fire - but it's exactly the same reason that you would spray water onto the base of the coals in the fireplace if you have a chimney fire. Just on a larger scale.

I'm also quite baffled as to why you think you know more about putting out a fire than dozens of trained firefighters :think:.

[Kazanne]

No i am saying that when the fire is climbing out the house above the window you don't aim the water below the window which is what was happening in the video. The fire wasnt all that big at this time.

My brother is a firefighter he said ideally you do both.

[Kizzy]

Al renovations have to be signed off by the council

Well of course so if they didn't meet building regs the council will have been fully aware, the chancellor insists the material used was banned here so how could it possibly have been sanctioned?

That's if you believe it was banned here and he didn't just say that to cover gavin barwells back for sitting on his hands to improve building regs for high rise buildings while housing minister.

[Cherie]

The fire was put out according to the neighbour opposite, I guess as the flammable material was at the centre of the cladding it was burning unnoticed for a while


Philip Hammond claims the cladding used is banned in the U.K., so two questions why was it sold in such a large quantity and why did building regs sign off on it ..

Well of course so if they didn't meet building regs the council will have been fully aware, the chancellor insists the material used was banned here so how could it possibly have been sanctioned?

That's if you believe it was banned here and he didn't just say that to cover gavin barwells back for sitting on his hands to improve building regs for high rise buildings while housing minister.

See my post above you seem determined to argue for the sake of it when I am asking the same questions as you pages before you do :tongue:

[Kizzy]

See my post above you seem determined to argue for the sake of it when I am asking the same questions as you pages before you do :tongue:

And my post is agreeing with you not arguing against what you say :/

The whole thing stinks of corruption, the most laughable being the MP who lost her seat pointing fingers at her replacement who sat on the council 3yrs ago!
:laugh:

[Niamh.]

You aim the water at the base of the fire because it then vaporizes into steam which then rises and both dampens the rest of the fire, and starves it of oxygen which it needs to continue to burn. Don't know if you've ever had an open fire - but it's exactly the same reason that you would spray water onto the base of the coals in the fireplace if you have a chimney fire. Just on a larger scale.

I'm also quite baffled as to why you think you know more about putting out a fire than dozens of trained firefighters :think:.

Yeah that's exactly right. My husband is a fire fighter and they're extremely well trained and he says that UKs training is very similar to theirs.

When they go to chimney fires that's exactly what they do, the water evaporates and goes up the chimney

[Crimson Dynamo]

I wonder how much subletting to illegals was going on? Trying to work out who was in there will be a nightmare

:clap1: Making the thread not only political, but about immigration :clap1: :clap1:. I'd have thought it was impossible but here we are.

The Mayor of London has called on the government to ensure any illegal immigrants who lived in Grenfell Tower to be protected.

One of the reasons for the authorities inability to get an accurate death toll is because some of the victims are too frightened to come forward and get help.

LBC's Senior Reporter Vincent McAviney explains: "Some of the residents are undocumented migrants or are people who were living in the tower illegally - and they're worried that is their status is looked into, they'll be prosecuted.

"The probelm with this is that without working out exactly who was inside, an acurate death toll can't be known and secondly, the people that did survive can't be rehoused or helped in any way."

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick-ferrari/sadiq-khan-amnesty-grenfell-illegal-immigrants/

[Kizzy]

The Mayor of London has called on the government to ensure any illegal immigrants who lived in Grenfell Tower to be protected.

One of the reasons for the authorities inability to get an accurate death toll is because some of the victims are too frightened to come forward and get help.

LBC's Senior Reporter Vincent McAviney explains: "Some of the residents are undocumented migrants or are people who were living in the tower illegally - and they're worried that is their status is looked into, they'll be prosecuted.

"The probelm with this is that without working out exactly who was inside, an acurate death toll can't be known and secondly, the people that did survive can't be rehoused or helped in any way."

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick-ferrari/sadiq-khan-amnesty-grenfell-illegal-immigrants/

How does that detract from the fact you were speculating at the time? To make some socio-political point while condemning others for doing so?

[user104658]

The Mayor of London has called on the government to ensure any illegal immigrants who lived in Grenfell Tower to be protected.

One of the reasons for the authorities inability to get an accurate death toll is because some of the victims are too frightened to come forward and get help.

LBC's Senior Reporter Vincent McAviney explains: "Some of the residents are undocumented migrants or are people who were living in the tower illegally - and they're worried that is their status is looked into, they'll be prosecuted.

"The probelm with this is that without working out exactly who was inside, an acurate death toll can't be known and secondly, the people that did survive can't be rehoused or helped in any way."

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick-ferrari/sadiq-khan-amnesty-grenfell-illegal-immigrants/

It's a no-brainer that there might have been discrepancies between the official documents and who was actually living there LT. I didn't say otherwise. My problem was never with the fact, but with your obvious agenda in pointing it out. The reason your agenda is obvious, is that you have almost 45,000 posts on this site that make it obvious. If I'm wrong in this case, and you don't like being pre-judged on your motivations for making certain comments, I would suggest that you take some time to consider why people might have that idea about you :idc:.

[Crimson Dynamo]

It's a no-brainer that there might have been discrepancies between the official documents and who was actually living there LT. I didn't say otherwise. My problem was never with the fact, but with your obvious agenda in pointing it out. The reason your agenda is obvious, is that you have almost 45,000 posts on this site that make it obvious. If I'm wrong in this case, and you don't like being pre-judged on your motivations for making certain comments, I would suggest that you take some time to consider why people might have that idea about you :idc:.

or you were wrong

as you often are in a rush to make some virtuous point

:smug:

[user104658]

or you were wrong

as you often are in a rush to make some virtuous point

:smug:

I was wrong that you tried to make the thread about immigration? :think:. I was wrong to be concerned about your motivations for doing so? :think:

I wonder if you really lack such self-awareness LT.

I would suggest that you take some time to consider why people might have that idea about you :idc:

Because it seems to bother you...

[Kizzy]

or you were wrong

as you often are in a rush to make some virtuous point

:smug:

Some virtuous point, What does that mean, are your points not virtuous? :/

[Crimson Dynamo]

I was wrong that you tried to make the thread about immigration? :think:. I was wrong to be concerned about your motivations for doing so? :think:

I wonder if you really lack such self-awareness LT.

I would suggest that you take some time to consider why people might have that idea about you :idc:

Because it seems to bother you...


If that is your backhanded way of admitting you were wrong, i understand

:)

[Kazanne]

The Mayor of London has called on the government to ensure any illegal immigrants who lived in Grenfell Tower to be protected.

One of the reasons for the authorities inability to get an accurate death toll is because some of the victims are too frightened to come forward and get help.

LBC's Senior Reporter Vincent McAviney explains: "Some of the residents are undocumented migrants or are people who were living in the tower illegally - and they're worried that is their status is looked into, they'll be prosecuted.

"The probelm with this is that without working out exactly who was inside, an acurate death toll can't be known and secondly, the people that did survive can't be rehoused or helped in any way."

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick-ferrari/sadiq-khan-amnesty-grenfell-illegal-immigrants/

Spot on again LT, LT for PM:laugh:

[user104658]

If that is your backhanded way of admitting you were wrong, i understand

:)

Why are you tying to troll me when you know fine well it isn't going to work? :joker:. You're only demonstrating how wound up you get about these things... I mean... quoting posts from 20 pages earlier in the thread? I feel like you need to learn to let things go :umm2:.

If we HAVE to get into it;

I am not admitting anything and I wasn't wrong. I didn't say there wouldn't be unregistered immigrants in the tower. I called you out for making that point within HOURS of dozens of people losing their lives because I am 90% sure that you did not do so out of concern for the people in the building... but because you dislike immigrants and wanted to get in a quick, petty point about immigration in the immediate wake of a tragedy. It's not about whether or not you were "right" in saying that there were probably illegal immigrants in the building, it's about your reasons for saying it, and it always was.

[Kizzy]

Why are you tying to troll me when you know fine well it isn't going to work? :joker. You're only demonstrating how wound up you get about these things... I mean... quoting posts from 20 pages earlier in the thread? I feel like you need to learn to let things go :umm2:.

If we HAVE to get into it;

I am not admitting anything and I wasn't wrong. I didn't say there wouldn't be unregistered immigrants in the tower. I called you out for making that point within HOURS of dozens of people losing their lives because I am 90% sure that you did not do so out of concern for the people in the building... but because you dislike immigrants and wanted to get in a quick, petty point about immigration in the immediate wake of a tragedy. It's not about whether or not you were "right" in saying that there were probably illegal immigrants in the building, it's about your reasons for saying it, and it always was.

100% agreed

[Kizzy]

'Inspections have found more flats with combustible cladding of the kind used on Grenfell Tower, May says. She says those buildings will be made safe.
She says 100 tower blocks a day are being inspected.

More information will be released later about where these flats are, she says.

She says these buildings will be made safe. No one will be forced to live in homes that are not safe.'

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/jun/22/hammond-suggests-brexit-transitional-period-could-last-up-to-four-years-politics-live?page=with:block-594b83a7e4b0fb1893fa1a4c#block-594b83a7e4b0fb1893fa1a4c

[Kizzy]

Unbelievable :/


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/22/flammable-cladding-found-on-other-flats-after-grenfell-fire-says-may

[Vicky.]

The Mayor of London has called on the government to ensure any illegal immigrants who lived in Grenfell Tower to be protected.

One of the reasons for the authorities inability to get an accurate death toll is because some of the victims are too frightened to come forward and get help.

LBC's Senior Reporter Vincent McAviney explains: "Some of the residents are undocumented migrants or are people who were living in the tower illegally - and they're worried that is their status is looked into, they'll be prosecuted.

"The probelm with this is that without working out exactly who was inside, an acurate death toll can't be known and secondly, the people that did survive can't be rehoused or helped in any way."

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick-ferrari/sadiq-khan-amnesty-grenfell-illegal-immigrants/

I don't understand how some illegals living in there would be hindering getting the death toll known? Unless the council didn't have accurate records of who was actually living in their properties of course :shrug: As currently, what people are asking for is council records compared against those found. Yes if a few flats were sublet or something then the death figures could be a lot higher...

Basically if someone was living in the tower 'illegally' then they would not be on the records to begin with. So there would be no point them coming forwards to say they were safe as noone would even know they were there to start with. If this makes sense. These people being too scared to let authorities know they got out will not be affecting the numbers at all as they were never even known to be there in the first place...


Ensuring any 'illegal immigrants' who lived in the tower is a ridiculous request. As ANY illegal immigrant in the country could claim they were a victim and thus be housed. As there won't actually be any records of the people who genuinely were there...being illegal and all...

[Crimson Dynamo]

Unbelievable :/


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/22/flammable-cladding-found-on-other-flats-after-grenfell-fire-says-may

The Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG) was coordinating the process and facilities to allow for 100 samples a day to be tested, the spokeswoman said.

“So far, three samples have been found to be combustible,” she said. “In terms of how many buildings and how many homes have this type of cladding, the estimate provided to us by councils is that there are approximately 600 high-rise buildings with similar cladding.


“We are in touch with all the local authorities to encourage them to urgently send us the samples and then we will carry out the checks that we need to see where we are with that.”

In blocks where the cladding was found to be combustible further tests would be done to ensure the building was safe and residents could be rehoused.



-----------------------------

is it any wonder this tragedy happened?

[Kizzy]

The Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG) was coordinating the process and facilities to allow for 100 samples a day to be tested, the spokeswoman said.

“So far, three samples have been found to be combustible,” she said. “In terms of how many buildings and how many homes have this type of cladding, the estimate provided to us by councils is that there are approximately 600 high-rise buildings with similar cladding.


“We are in touch with all the local authorities to encourage them to urgently send us the samples and then we will carry out the checks that we need to see where we are with that.”

In blocks where the cladding was found to be combustible further tests would be done to ensure the building was safe and residents could be rehoused.



-----------------------------

is it any wonder this tragedy happened?

What is your point?

[Crimson Dynamo]

What is your point?

BIB

[Kizzy]

'Tenants in 700 flats in the five tower blocks that make up the Chalcots estate in Swiss Cottage in London received a hand-delivered letter from Camden council this morning advising them that the cladding was the same as that in Grenfell Tower and would be removed immediately.'

That is in one relatively small area...


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/jun/22/hammond-suggests-brexit-transitional-period-could-last-up-to-four-years-politics-live

[arista]

[Toxic gases released during Grenfell Tower fire may have caused some deaths
Experts say insulation boards on the outside of Grenfell Tower may have filled flats with hydrogen cyanide when they caught fire.]


not good for those on top flats.

http://news.sky.com/story/toxic-gases-released-during-grenfell-tower-fire-may-have-caused-some-deaths-10922685

[Vicky.]

This is just getting worse and worse tbh. Such negligence.

[Crimson Dynamo]

the whole fckg country is full of flats ready to incinerate all occupants

its unbelievable

and we are all scared of the odd terror attack (and the money spent on guarding against it)

[arista]

They need to check No
Fridges are jammed on a window
in the Flats.

In Camden - They are doing just that
checking Electrical goods in every flat

[Cherie]

The chancellor said it was banned, one building could be a terrible mistake, multiple buildings :idc: if you have work done on your house planning and building regs act like mini Hitler's, the back handers must have been good

[arista]

Yes Cherie
the money they saved with
the Cheaper Danger Cladding
they kept

[Cherie]

They need to check No
Fridges are jammed on a window
in the Flats.

In Camden - They are doing just that
checking Electrical goods in every flat

They wouldn't have to if the buildings weren't clad in flammable material :idc:

[arista]

[Grenfell Tower blaze started in Hotpoint fridge freezer FF175BP model, say police]

http://news.sky.com/story/grenfell-tower-blaze-started-in-fridge-freezer-10924716


http://e3.365dm.com/17/06/1096x616/f2260e87048c635ae69467815e07ac2327f55189d7bb2b8e87 30846ed866700f_3985015.jpg?20170623135614

[Vicky.]

Yes Cherie
the money they saved with
the Cheaper Danger Cladding
they kept

Its ridiculous tbh. To save a couple of thousand you put so many lives at risk. 'Austerity' has a ****ing lot to answer for.

[Jack_]

https://www.facebook.com/theguardian/videos/10155600024241323/

Comes to something when a comedian is the voice of reason

[Crimson Dynamo]

Its ridiculous tbh. To save a couple of thousand you put so many lives at risk. 'Austerity' has a ****ing lot to answer for.

So councils never tried to do things on the cheap before the phrase austerity was misused?

[Vicky.]

So councils never tried to do things on the cheap before the phrase austerity was misused?

Of course they did but with the seemingly endless cuts the councils are having to do stuff like this a hell of a lot more often or they have no money to spend on anything. Except Kensington council of course, when they have 200m stashed away for no bloody reason besides refusing to spend it on residents/their areas.

Councils are horrendous for wasting money. I didn't realise they hoarded it too though. Our council spent millions on this absolutely ugly statue thing on our front street, only to knock it down 3 months later :shrug:

Our council once sent out someone who wasn't even trained in electrics to fix our trip box thingy and he nearly killed himself. Cowboy councils...expect most are like that. In a way its a good thing that this has all came out as it will make people safer in the future but wtf..who is signing off on stuff like extremely flammable cladding in flats AND who thinks its a good idea to house disabled residents at the top of a tower block ffs

[DemolitionRed]

'Tenants in 700 flats in the five tower blocks that make up the Chalcots estate in Swiss Cottage in London received a hand-delivered letter from Camden council this morning advising them that the cladding was the same as that in Grenfell Tower and would be removed immediately.'

That is in one relatively small area...


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/jun/22/hammond-suggests-brexit-transitional-period-could-last-up-to-four-years-politics-live

I heard that on the radio today. It was also fitted by Rydon. I also wonder about Camden's three huge Harrington Square tower blocks which were cladded a few years earlier. I'm sure Camden will be checking them out in due course.

Camden have, at least, been commendably quick off the mark, knowing they had blocks cladded by Rydon and work to remove the cladding from the Chalcot blocks has already begun.

When it comes to councils like Southwark and Newham, however... the mind boggles. We can't just blame Tory councils because there are some awful Labour councils in London, too, with many more tower blocks than Kensington & Chelsea. The pox of Blairism has not been extirpated from local government! and instead of calling it "Blairism" or "gentrification" or "social cleansing", its called "modernisation". All councils now have to be answerable for their tenants future safety.

[arista]

https://d2kmm3vx031a1h.cloudfront.net/cRFzxmiRyCyQo2FiZm1L_front24.jpg

[DemolitionRed]

The 1984 Documentary That Predicted Grenfell Tower

upViHb8z4wY

[AnnieK]

Of course they did but with the seemingly endless cuts the councils are having to do stuff like this a hell of a lot more often or they have no money to spend on anything. Except Kensington council of course, when they have 200m stashed away for no bloody reason besides refusing to spend it on residents/their areas.

Councils are horrendous for wasting money. I didn't realise they hoarded it too though. Our council spent millions on this absolutely ugly statue thing on our front street, only to knock it down 3 months later :shrug:

Our council once sent out someone who wasn't even trained in electrics to fix our trip box thingy and he nearly killed himself. Cowboy councils...expect most are like that. In a way its a good thing that this has all came out as it will make people safer in the future but wtf..who is signing off on stuff like extremely flammable cladding in flats AND who thinks its a good idea to house disabled residents at the top of a tower block ffs

OUr council put speed bumps on a long straight road that everyone used to fly up and down...a really dangerois.road. 6 months later they removed them apparently according to someone who worked.at the council it was because of the lost revenue from speeding fines they used to get from the.speed camera on that road. If thats true not only was.it a waste.of money but the.road is now potentially a death trap again for the kids who use it to go to school

[Vicky.]

OUr council put speed bumps on a long straight road that everyone used to fly up and down...a really dangerois.road. 6 months later they removed them apparently according to someone who worked.at the council it was because of the lost revenue from speeding fines they used to get from the.speed camera on that road. If thats true not only was.it a waste.of money but the.road is now potentially a death trap again for the kids who use it to go to school

Yes, money means so much more than lives sadly :( Pretty much the case with these flats too. Saving a bit of money is much more important that ensuring human beings are safe.

[Kizzy]

3LCG2NaUELU

DwbaOOEVZo0

[DemolitionRed]

Thank you Kizzy. Sad times :(

[Crimson Dynamo]

Breaking: govt TOLD the cladding was failing and flammable

source LBC

I may have misheard but check news (i was in kitchen and it was in other room)

[Kizzy]

Breaking: govt TOLD the cladding was failing and flammable

source LBC

I may have misheard but check news (i was in kitchen and it was in other room)

And nobody anywhere was surprised..

[Kizzy]

The judge leading the public inquiry into the Grenfell Tower fire has said he is doubtful that the scope of the investigation will be broad enough to satisfy all survivors.

Sir Martin Moore-Bick met with survivors at the site of the north Kensington blaze, but he said afterwards: “I’ve been asked to undertake this inquiry on the basis that it would be pretty well limited to the problems surrounding the start of the fire and its rapid development in order to make recommendations about how this sort of thing can be prevented in future."

He added: “I’m well aware the residents and the local people want a much broader investigation and I can fully understand why they would want that. Whether my inquiry is the right way in which to achieve that I’m more doubtful."


Pilgrim Tucker, a housing campaigner who has worked with Grenfell Action Group, said Sir Martin told survivors during the meeting the inquiry’s terms would be “very narrow”.


In other words for the victims this inquiry is pointless, give them the inquest they wanted.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-fire-judge-sir-martin-moore-bick-public-inquiry-residents-satisfy-victims-families-a7815056.html

[Kizzy]

No wonder they wanted a closed meeting...

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/30/grenfell-cladding-was-changed-to-cheaper-version-reports-say

[arista]

The Conservative Council Leader
will stand down.

He failed