Corbyn has betrayed young voters over Brexit

[Brillopad]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/23/labour-young-voters-betray-brexit

Some good points raised in this article.

[Toy Soldier]

Indeed... Hard Brexit really is an act of extreme economic self-harm. I'm glad to see that you've realised this Brillo, maybe not all hope is lost for you.

[Brillopad]

Indeed... Hard Brexit really is an act of extreme economic self-harm. I'm glad to see that you've realised this Brillo, maybe not all hope is lost for you.

More the case that the youth, the majority of which apparently want to remain, are backing a man that wants a hard Brexit. What part of that don't they understand.

The pound signs in their eyes have coloured their judgement. Either that or they are too naive/stupid to connect the dots.

[Vicky.]

More the case that the youth, the majority of which apparently want to remain, are backing a man that wants a hard Brexit. What part of that don't they understand.

The pound signs in their eyes have coloured their judgement. Either that or they are too naive/stupid to connect the dots.

Or they aren't voting because of Brexit. There are many other issues. If 'the youth' were voting against Brexit, they would have voted Lib Dem. They were the only real 'anti-Brexit' option.

[Brillopad]

Or they aren't voting because of Brexit. There are many other issues. If 'the youth' were voting against Brexit, they would have voted Lib Dem. They were the only real 'anti-Brexit' option.

£ signs then. Let's hope their eyes are not too big for their bellies.

[Toy Soldier]

More the case that the youth, the majority of which apparently want to remain, are backing a man that wants a hard Brexit. What part of that don't they understand.

The pound signs in their eyes have coloured their judgement. Either that or they are too naive/stupid to connect the dots.
But May is also pushing for a hard Brexit so what choice do they really have there? Are you suggesting that, as both party leaders want a hard Brexit, anyone who doesn't should simply abstain from voting? They surely have to still go with the party that best represents their own interests otherwise.

[Vicky.]

£ signs then. Let's hope their eyes are not too big for their bellies.

The only choices are '£ signs' or Brexit? :umm2:

[Toy Soldier]

Also the part about pound signs is quite hilarious irony... Surely anyone who is right leaning believes that EVERYONE should vote for the party that gives them as individuals the most economically?

Or do you believe that people should change their vote in order to get what's best for everyone and the country as a whole rather than just for themselves?

Because... Heh... That would make you a socialist :omgno:

[Brillopad]

But May is also pushing for a hard Brexit so what choice do they really have there? Are you suggesting that, as both party leaders want a hard Brexit, anyone who doesn't should simply abstain from voting? They surely have to still go with the party that best represents their own interests otherwise.

I would have thought the lib dems would have been a better option.

For heaven's sake Brexit is much bigger than a general election and, if they believe all the hype about the hazards of leaving the EU as it seems most do, then they would be prioritising it over an election that can easily be changed in four years.

All the evidence suggests either greed or naivety/stupidity,

[Brillopad]

Also the part about pound signs is quite hilarious irony... Surely anyone who is right leaning believes that EVERYONE should vote for the party that gives them as individuals the most economically?

Or do you believe that people should change their vote in order to get what's best for everyone and the country as a whole rather than just for themselves?

Because... Heh... That would make you a socialist :omgno:

Everyone thinks of their own and their family's circumstances first when they vote - to say otherwise is laughable. At least some are more honest about that than others.

The youngsters are thinking about uni fees, hourly pay rates and more money in their pockets fullstop - but some are trying to dress it up as caring about everyone else. Most youngsters think in the here and now. The future seems a lifetime away, except perhaps when thinking about free uni fees that will make them more money in the future. It's always about money.

[Withano]

Corbyn was always a eurosceptic, May was always pro-EU. No remainer voted Labour because of Corbyn, no leaver voted Tories because of May. What a warped stance you've put yourself in there.

[Toy Soldier]

Everyone thinks of their own and their family's circumstances first when they vote - to say otherwise is laughable. At least some are more honest about that than others.

The youngsters are thinking about uni fees, hourly pay rates and more money in their pockets fullstop - but some are trying to dress it up as caring about everyone else. Most youngsters think in the here and now. The future seems a lifetime away, except perhaps when thinking about free uni fees that will make them more money in the future. It's always about money.
If everyone thinks of themselves and their family first... Why do you label it "greed" when it goes against your own voting, but not otherwise?

[Brillopad]

If everyone thinks of themselves and their family first... Why do you label it "greed" when it goes against your own voting, but not otherwise?

Because many won't admit it - they pretend/convince themselves it's about what's best for the country, not themselves. Maybe they manage to convince themselves it's both - but most would not vote for the country's interests over their own. Young people are innately selfish - we've all been there. :hee:

[Toy Soldier]

Because many won't admit it - they pretend/convince themselves it's about what's best for the country, not themselves. Maybe they manage to convince themselves it's both - but most would not vote for the country's interests over their own. Young people are innately selfish - we've all been there. :hee:

But in what way does "not admitting it" make it more greedy than anyone else voting in their best interests? And you just said that EVERYONE votes in their own interests. So is everyone greedy?

[Vicky.]

Because many won't admit it - they pretend/convince themselves it's about what's best for the country, not themselves. Maybe they manage to convince themselves it's both - but most would not vote for the country's interests over their own. Young people are innately selfish - we've all been there. :hee:

Only young people? I would say people in general to be honest.

So much prejudice against youngsters when it comes to election talks.

[Kizzy]

Betraying them? The voters wanted brexit didn't they?... Talk about damned if you do damned if you dont :/

[Vicky.]

Betraying them? The voters wanted brexit didn't they?... Talk about damned if you do damned if you dont :/

This is young people.

Don't vote. Lazy and can't be arsed to get out of bed.
Do vote. Greedy, naive and gullible.

[Brillopad]

Betraying them? The voters wanted brexit didn't they?... Talk about damned if you do damned if you dont :/

What - most youngsters didn't! Yet they fawn over The JC virus who wants a hard Brexit. :shrug:

[Vicky.]

What - most youngsters didn't! Yet they fawn over The JC virus who wants a hard Brexit. :shrug:

If Brexit is the most important thing in the vote for everyone and should be focused on more than anything as it seems you were saying earlier in the thread..why so much hate for JC who, as you say 'wants a hard Brexit'? :suspect:

[Brillopad]

If Brexit is the most important thing in the vote for everyone and should be focused on more than anything as it seems you were saying earlier in the thread..why so much hate for JC who, as you say 'wants a hard Brexit'? :suspect:

Because he will destroy our country economically, PC it to death and open the floodgates for migration. Not much of a future to look forward to.

[Northern Monkey]

Because he will destroy our country economically, PC it to death and open the floodgates for migration. Not much of a future to look forward to.

I'm no Corbyn fan but Labour did put an end to freedom of movement in their manifesto which also implies not being a full member of the single market as they go hand in hand.The immigration thing I don't think will be much different whoever is in government tbh.Both parties will still take in immigrants as needed from within and outside the EU.I think it will fall but nowhere near Camerons pledge of 100k.That is unachievable.Even non EU immigration is way above that.

For me there were two evils in the election.Labour being the lesser of them.Great manifesto with terrible leadership compared with imo a Tory party with terrible policies and a terrible leadership.

[Kizzy]

What - most youngsters didn't! Yet they fawn over The JC virus who wants a hard Brexit. :shrug:

He wants what the electorate wants and what you want, I thought you would be pleased? They have trust that he will deliver a fair responsible brexit unlike may.

[Mystic Mock]

Only young people? I would say people in general to be honest.

So much prejudice against youngsters when it comes to election talks.

Older people hate young people, especially the age group that are the majority that vote in General Elections.

Just to clarify I don't mean all older people, just some.

[DemolitionRed]

Everyone thinks of their own and their family's circumstances first when they vote - to say otherwise is laughable. At least some are more honest about that than others.

Its just not so. We will be financially worse off under a Labour government that we are now.


The youngsters are thinking about uni fees, hourly pay rates and more money in their pockets fullstop - but some are trying to dress it up as caring about everyone else. Most youngsters think in the here and now. The future seems a lifetime away, except perhaps when thinking about free uni fees that will make them more money in the future. It's always about money.

When you were a youngster, didn't you think about hourly pay rates and more money in your pocket full stop?
I would love my kids to have free uni/further ed fees as I did. Lucky me, that I wasn't burdened with having to pay back my education! why shouldn't they expect the same?

[Brillopad]

Its just not so. We will be financially worse off under a Labour government that we are now.



When you were a youngster, didn't you think about hourly pay rates and more money in your pocket full stop?
I would love my kids to have free uni/further ed fees as I did. Lucky me, that I wasn't burdened with having to pay back my education! why shouldn't they expect the same?

Idealistically it shouldn't be a problem, but realistically it is. If the economy wasn't in such a crisis then maybe everything could be free but the world is changing with an ever increasing population and a much larger proportion of young people going to university than ever before making that more and more unattainable.

Services such as the NHS, social care and junior and secondary education should get priority as they benefit everyone. Free uni fees mainly benefit the individual who will likely have a much higher earning potential and thus better lifestyle in the future.

That is a choice I believe comes under the remit of personal responsibility and should be personally financed not state funded. As long as there is a good and fair loan system in place that enables everyone who achieves the grades to go to uni then I think that is a fair system for all. No one has the right to expect a free state funded uni education anymore.

[Toy Soldier]

Because many won't admit it - they pretend/convince themselves it's about what's best for the country, not themselves. Maybe they manage to convince themselves it's both - but most would not vote for the country's interests over their own. Young people are innately selfish - we've all been there. :hee:


But in what way does "not admitting it" make it more greedy than anyone else voting in their best interests? And you just said that EVERYONE votes in their own interests. So is everyone greedy?


Why are you refusing to answer me Brillo, das very rude :nono:

[DemolitionRed]

Just watched the BBC coverage at the Glastonbury Festival and the crowd sung "Oh Jeremy Corbyn"

IVO_pQIUER0

Today, Corbyn is going on stage at Glastonbury but I am not worried for his safety. When he faced a massive crowd of Libertines Fans a few weeks ago and they loved him.

LFC fans have our own song for him too.

[Brillopad]

Why are you refusing to answer me Brillo, das very rude :nono:

Maybe everyone is selfish to some degree - but youngsters have a much narrower field of vision in my experience.

[DemolitionRed]

Idealistically it shouldn't be a problem, but realistically it is. If the economy wasn't in such a crisis then maybe everything could be free but the world is changing with an ever increasing population and a much larger proportion of young people going to university than ever before making that more and more unattainable.

The country is in crisis because of this pinch towards austerity and lack of government spending in the right departments. Education is an investment because it guarantees a return. It will cost the government nothing to give us free further education and guarantee professions who pay a higher percentage of tax in the future.

Services such as the NHS, social care and junior and secondary education should get priority as they benefit everyone. Free uni fees mainly benefit the individual who will likely have a much higher earning potential and thus better lifestyle in the future.


The NHS and social care are totally different business models and something entirely separate from free further ed and junior and secondary ed. Junior and secondary ed are, like further ed, investments and so saying we should think about social care and the NHS before education doesn't make any sense.


That is a choice I believe comes under the remit of personal responsibility and should be personally financed not state funded. As long as there is a good and fair loan system in place that enables everyone who achieves the grades to go to uni then I think that is a fair system for all. No one has the right to expect a free state funded uni education anymore.

If you are French, German, Norwegian, Swedish, Finish, Austrian, Argentinian or Indian native, you will either have free further ed or pay very small fees for your education. If they can do it, why can't we? How many students are we presently losing to these low cost nations? Many of them won't be returning to the UK at the end of their studies and that affects our future numbers in high tax bracket earners.

[Mystic Mock]

Maybe everyone is selfish to some degree - but youngsters have a much narrower field of vision in my experience.

I'd say it's quite the opporsite.

[Brillopad]

I'd say it's quite the opporsite.

I don't know how old you are but if you're past 30 you must remember what most youngsters were like when you were Yong and how most grow up and cringe at some of the things they did and said when young and foolish.

[Mystic Mock]

I don't know how old you are but if you're past 30 you must remember what most youngsters were like when you were Yong and how most grow up and cringe at some of the things they did and said when young and foolish.

I'm 21, and I've got to be honest whilst I suffer from being selfish, I don't think that I've ever came up with ideas that could potentially wreck this country like some of the older voters were doing when they was worshipping Farage all because he spoke for them and only them.

Tbh it's why the Tories get in is because older people don't give a **** how the young in particular get treated, and then the older generations wonder why the younger generations are gravitating towards Corbyn, of course alot of what Corbyn says is more than likely bull****, but he is the only one to promise the younger generations a better future for all and not just their vote base.

[Kizzy]

Maybe everyone is selfish to some degree - but youngsters have a much narrower field of vision in my experience.

You want the truth?... Ask the youth :)

[Vicky.]

I'm 21, and I've got to be honest whilst I suffer from being selfish, I don't think that I've ever came up with ideas that could potentially wreck this country like some of the older voters were doing when they was worshipping Farage all because he spoke for them and only them.

Tbh it's why the Tories get in is because older people don't give a **** how the young in particular get treated, and then the older generations wonder why the younger generations are gravitating towards Corbyn, of course alot of what Corbyn says is more than likely bull****, but he is the only one to promise the younger generations a better future for all and not just their vote base.

Wise words mock.

For too long the young have been ignored whilst the pensioners and baby boomers are catered to. Who cares about the young, they don't bother to vote anyway, can't be arsed to get out of bed. Who cares if the youngsters are treat like crap, if their schools are closing and such. The older generations tend to own houses (wages today cannot buy a house for most people) and have pensions (todays young will be lucky to have a pension at all). They had free education and all of the stuff that they now despise the young for wanting. Older generations tend to be a lot more wealthy than youngsters through years of having steady employment (something thats rarer now) and the option to save...where wages today do not allow for savings, so many live hand to mouth and are one paycheck away from homelessness. What exactly is wrong with younger people wanting the opportunity to own their own house rather than rent all of their lives? Whats wrong with a bit of hope for a decent wage...afterall poor people are only poor as they don't want to be rich, isn't that the case?

Corbyn listens to the younger generation. He respects them. He takes the time to talk to them. He does not ignore them in favour or throwing more perks at pensioners to retain the grey vote. And younger people respond to finally being noticed...being noticed as more than just drains on society who all have asbos and don't want to work or better themselves. Then they are in the wrong for voting for the person who actually seems to care? They are gullible and naive and being manipulated? FFS these are the people who will be paying your pensions whilst being unable to ever have one themselves. They will be the people staffing the carehomes, hospitals, looking after you as you age. They quite literally are the future. A bit of respect wouldn't go amiss. The contempt for younger people is absolutely astounding. Hatred for the generation that you actually raised. Its bizarre.

I do agree some of Corbyns policies are pretty unrealistic or unneeded. But who can blame the younger generation for wanting to have the same opportunities in life as their parents got? Really?

[Brillopad]

You want the truth?... Ask the youth :)

Ask a 5 year-old and you'll get the truth, their truth, most likely what someone they idealised told them - i.e. Santa will bring them presents at Christmas if they are good. I can see the resemblance. :hehe:

[Vicky.]

Sorry my last post may have went a bit OTT. I am extremely riled at the min as I am arguing with some complete twat on facebook who is trying to tell me that pensioners and such vote for the good of the country, while young people are just selfish and want things that they should work for like older people did...and that they are all just lazy bastards who are 'happy on minimum wage' as this means they can collect benefits on top of working and none of them have any ambition as ambition is all you need to have a high wage and a nice house ffs. I actually cannot believe people genuinely hold views like this.

I don't think I even count as one of 'the young' but I feel very defensive when people go on about them as if they are ****ing toddlers or something. My brother is one of these 'selfish young people'. He is already paying for uni so he wouldn't benefit from that. He probably knows more about politics than most older people tbh. He certainly puts me in my place sometimes. The thought of people hating him for voting labour and assuming he was just stupid and easily led annoys the **** out of me when he is certainly more informed than the daily mail brigade who always seem to reckon they are more informed than anyone else who tend to be the main ones who are levelling abuse at the young for daring to vote for a party that seems more focused on people than profit.

[Kizzy]

Ask a 5 year-old and you'll get the truth, their truth, most likely what someone they idealised told them - i.e. Santa will bring them presents at Christmas if they are good. I can see the resemblance. :hehe:

So because the under 40s don't think like they they are tantamount to 5yr olds.... :/

[Tom4784]

More the case that the youth, the majority of which apparently want to remain, are backing a man that wants a hard Brexit. What part of that don't they understand.

The pound signs in their eyes have coloured their judgement. Either that or they are too naive/stupid to connect the dots.

I suppose it makes as much sense as people who want a hard brexit supporting a Theresa May led government which has a history on u-turning on decisions and promises.