5 year old christian child forced to live with 2 muslim families

[Beso]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4828546/amp/Christian-girl-5-forced-care-devout-Muslims.html


Should this be allowed to happen?

I think not.

[Brillopad]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4828546/amp/Christian-girl-5-forced-care-devout-Muslims.html


Should this be allowed to happen?

I think not.

When I saw that picture in the paper the woman had her face completely covered, but she is showing her face in that one?

And no I don't think it's appropriate. I don't know whether the mention of her crucifix being removed and not eating bacon etc is correct, but if proven then that family should not be allowed to foster at all.

[Oliver_W]

When muslim children are put into foster care, they're generally put with muslim parents. If the foster agency (or whoever) can't find a Christian family, it doesn't matter as much because Christians and Atheists are generally more similar than Christians and muslims.

[_baileys_]

It is terrible apparently the adoptive family do not even speak english!

I understand that a child needs love attention etc however the basics of speaking english would be a good start how can you teach a 5 year old who can't understand you and vice versa.. I do hope they find that poor 5 year old a new family really soon

[Toy Soldier]

It is terrible apparently the adoptive family do not even speak english!

"Muslim foster carers told Christian girl, five, that Christmas and Easter are stupid and European women are alcoholics after taking away her crucifix and stopping her from eating bacon"

But also, they don't speak English :think:.


Sooo. OK in general, I would say that vulnerable and already confused kids going into foster care should be placed with a family that is a good match for them... that much is common sense. So placing a child of one (or no) religion with a family that is going to enforce a different religion is an obvious massive error.

That aside, however, I suspect that this article is rather exaggerated?

[_baileys_]

"Muslim foster carers told Christian girl, five, that Christmas and Easter are stupid and European women are alcoholics after taking away her crucifix and stopping her from eating bacon"

But also, they don't speak English :think:.


Sooo. OK in general, I would say that vulnerable and already confused kids going into foster care should be placed with a family that is a good match for them... that much is common sense. So placing a child of one (or no) religion with a family that is going to enforce a different religion is an obvious massive error.

That aside, however, I suspect that this article is rather exaggerated?

Indeed it could well be the home is temporary until a permanent home is found..

[Brillopad]

I don't think any non-Muslim child should be placed with a Muslim family if that family is incapable of separating their religion from their job - their professional and moral responsibility of providing the care needed in the best intersts of that child. It is not an opportunity for indoctrination.

[DemolitionRed]

No, its not acceptable. I know a lot of Muslim children are being fostered out to none Muslim families because of the refugee crisis so I'm really surprised these Muslim foster parents didn't get a refugee child. Its normally the case that black couples can't foster a white child and a white couple can't foster a black child (which in some instances is wrong). A child's culture and religion MUST be considered through the process of fostering.

[DemolitionRed]

It is terrible apparently the adoptive family do not even speak english!

I understand that a child needs love attention etc however the basics of speaking english would be a good start how can you teach a 5 year old who can't understand you and vice versa.. I do hope they find that poor 5 year old a new family really soon

I should think they do speak English. They just aren't speaking English in the home.

[Niamh.]

I don't think any non-Muslim child should be placed with a Muslim family if that family is incapable of separating their religion from their job - their professional and moral responsibility of providing the care needed in the best intersts of that child. It is not an opportunity for indoctrination.

I agree a Foster carer should absolutely not try to force religious beliefs on a child they're caring for and if they're incapable of doing this then they shouldn't be accepted as a Foster parent. I do agree with TS though that parts of the story contradict itself so I would be skeptical of the accuracy of the story

[Brillopad]

I should think they do speak English. They just aren't speaking English in the home.

That demonstrates a lack of consideration for the best interests of the child from the foster family. Don't foster parents get any training!

[Cal.]

I wonder if the child values a family and a roof over their head over bacon. Hmm.

[DemolitionRed]

Indeed it could well be the home is temporary until a permanent home is found..

Kids that are fostered from the age of five to young adulthood, on average will live with 25 different families. Most kids don't end up going through an adoption process... most, from the age of five up, never find a permanent home. I honestly believe a modern style childrens home is more stable for lone children.

[Brillopad]

I wonder if the child values a family and a roof over their head over bacon. Hmm.

I think the child would value a family that actually attempted to communicate with them!

[Niamh.]

I wonder if the child values a family and a roof over their head over bacon. Hmm.

yeah the bacon thing is a bit stupid and it's another thing that makes me question the accuracy of the story

[DemolitionRed]

That demonstrates a lack of consideration for the best interests of the child from the foster family. Don't foster parents get any training!

Yes, they do get a lot of training but like all carers, sometimes people slip through the net. I don't know how the hell this happened, but I doubt those women portrayed themselves as strict Muslims when going through the fostering process. There's a lot of money to be made fostering. Some foster parents are doing this for all the right reasons but others see it as a lucrative business.

[DemolitionRed]

yeah the bacon thing is a bit stupid and it's another thing that makes me question the accuracy of the story

I'm questioning its validity too. I'm wondering if the child is mixed race Middle Eastern but was born here. There's something odd about this story. If though it is correct and the child was born and raised as a Christian, this just shouldn't have happened.

[Brillopad]

Yes, they do get a lot of training but like all carers, sometimes people slip through the net. I don't know how the hell this happened, but I doubt those women portrayed themselves as strict Muslims when going through the fostering process. There's a lot of money to be made fostering. Some foster parents are doing this for all the right reasons but others see it as a lucrative business.

I know and my heart breaks for all those poor foster children - what a way to start your life. I agree with the comment that a good quality stable childrens' home would be better for these children. They need consistency and stability as well as good care and hopefully some love.

[waterhog]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4828546/amp/Christian-girl-5-forced-care-devout-Muslims.html


Should this be allowed to happen?

I think not.

just see this story on wrightstuff paper review - shame on those involved.

[Niamh.]

I know and my heart breaks for all those poor foster children - what a way to start your life. I agree with the comment that a good quality stable childrens' home would be better for these children. They need consistency and stability as well as good care and hopefully some love.

You hear all these horror stories from Childrens homes too though (and nursing homes etc) The people working in these places need to be vetted properly and they need a good monitoring system

[Toy Soldier]

Yeah to be fair, I think it's worth pointing out that the social services, fostering and care system is pretty much a mess from the top down, in hundreds of different ways. The scale of the problem overall is absolutely gargantuan.

[Brillopad]

You hear all these horror stories from Childrens homes too though (and nursing homes etc) The people working in these places need to be vetted properly and they need a good monitoring system

Oh I agree. Very close vetting and monitoring should be a given. I just think stability is so important. I have heard several ex-foster children say that one of the worst aspects was constantly being moved around and never being able to settle.

[Toy Soldier]

You hear all these horror stories from Childrens homes too though (and nursing homes etc) The people working in these places need to be vetted properly and they need a good monitoring system

The scary thing is that they ARE quite well vetted. My wife is working with a charity that helps vulnerable youngsters as one of the (many, haha) side activities that she does alongside University, and she had to have a completely separate round of vetting and long interview process for working with vulnerable youngsters (even having already been through vetting for studying as a Mental Health Nurse).

I guess, sadly, the problem is... just because someone hasn't done anything in the past - or hasn't been caught doing anything in the past - doesn't mean that they aren't capable of it in future. There's only so much that vetting can do.

[Niamh.]

Oh I agree. Very close vetting and monitoring should be a given. I just think stability is so important. I have heard several ex-foster children say that one of the worst aspects was constantly being moved around and never being able to settle.

Yeah I can imagine, it must be awful for a child to grow up like that.

The scary thing is that they ARE quite well vetted. My wife is working with a charity that helps vulnerable youngsters as one of the (many, haha) side activities that she does alongside University, and she had to have a completely separate round of vetting and long interview process for working with vulnerable youngsters (even having already been through vetting for studying as a Mental Health Nurse).

I guess, sadly, the problem is... just because someone hasn't done anything in the past - or hasn't been caught doing anything in the past - doesn't mean that they aren't capable of it in future. There's only so much that vetting can do.

Yeah I know there really is no fool proof system, what kind of scum goes into that line of work to abuse the most vulnerable in our society though

[Kizzy]

I'm in shock... someone has it in their heart to open their family to a child in need and straight away there are those who take that a a negative.

Shameful.

[RileyH]

I think he should probably go to a Christian family, but if there is a family willing to look after him and take him in as one of their own I don't see the problem.

[Brillopad]

I'm in shock... someone has it in their heart to open their family to a child in need and straight away there are those who take that a a negative.

Shameful.

Or open their bank accounts! Let's be honest we know it goes on and in this case there are suggestions they were less than compassionate.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/christian-girl-5-sent-to-muslim-foster-parents-speak-english-arabic-tower-hamlets-london-a7916071.html

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/british-agency-ignores-familys-wishes-pushes-5-year-old-christian-into-two

[DemolitionRed]

Yeah I can imagine, it must be awful for a child to grow up like that.



Yeah I know there really is no fool proof system, what kind of scum goes into that line of work to abuse the most vulnerable in our society though

Predators?

[Beso]

The scary thing is that they ARE quite well vetted. My wife is working with a charity that helps vulnerable youngsters as one of the (many, haha) side activities that she does alongside University, and she had to have a completely separate round of vetting and long interview process for working with vulnerable youngsters (even having already been through vetting for studying as a Mental Health Nurse).

I guess, sadly, the problem is... just because someone hasn't done anything in the past - or hasn't been caught doing anything in the past - doesn't mean that they aren't capable of it in future. There's only so much that vetting can do.

Or who is doing the vetting.

[Toy Soldier]

Or who is doing the vetting.True, but that's only at the final interview stage. These positions all require disclosures and record checks etc. that show there's nothing dodgy in someone's past and those are all done centrally. But... Passing that only means that someone hasn't done anything YET or anything that anyone ever found out about. Every abuser has a "first time", and plenty don't get found out for a long time (some never) and those people will pass the basic criminal records checks and reference checks no problem.

[Oliver_W]

Add to that, being a generally ****ty parent who won't feed a child the food he or she wants and trying to impose their culture on them aren't things which show up in any kind of vetting.

[DemolitionRed]

I'm in shock... someone has it in their heart to open their family to a child in need and straight away there are those who take that a a negative.

Shameful.

I've got to disagree on this. Social workers have to make decisions in the best interest of the child. If it was just a case of someone opening up their family unit to a child in need, it would be easy but its much more complex than that. Language, religion, culture and even race are carefully looked at (by most) when it comes to fostering a child and rightly so because children need as much familiarity as we can possibly give them and on top of that, those children are not finding a permanent family but a temporary one.

I'm presently working with refugee kids. Many of them arrive here with no living family, many don't speak the language. Some of the younger children get fostered out to English families because there just aren't enough people from their own heritage that want to foster. Those kids do suffer further trauma because there's no familiarity. Of course its important that the child learns our language but we need to understand that these children aren't just Syrian, African or Iraqi by language but by culture and religion too.

As a kid we moved house and my parents binned everything and purchased all new furniture. I had a meltdown over the loss of an unfamiliar red lampshade. Of course, it wasn't just the lampshade, that was just the trigger. If the loss of familiar furniture can affect a child, imagine what its like for children who lose all familiarity. If only it was so simple as the love of a family. The reality is, its so much more.

[Toy Soldier]

I agree DR, on the surface it seems simple; if a child needs a home and someone will offer theirs then it should all be fine. But in reality, more important than "a family home RIGHT NOW" for these kids, is stability longer term. Finding a good match for each child. The risk otherwise is it repeatedly not working out and bouncing from family to family... Much more destructive for the child than taking a while to find the right place.

[Niamh.]

Predators?

I wasn't really referring to that type of abuse, just people being cruel and uncaring towards those they're supposed to be looking after, with the elderly or young people

[DemolitionRed]

I wasn't really referring to that type of abuse, just people being cruel and uncaring towards those they're supposed to be looking after, with the elderly or young people

I know this is changing the subject, so I'll keep it short. The one thing that really bothers me about the elderly in many nursing homes is, we give them nothing like the level of care we give to people with learning disabilities or mental health issues. CQC just can't keep tabs on the neglect caused by understaffing and lack of training and whistleblowing policies are seriously flawed, so even when someone does see something suspicious, the fear of losing their job is higher than the fear of stopping something that needs to be stopped.

I don't think anyone working in the care industry sets out to be abusive (unless they are a sexual predator) they just end up that way.

[Kizzy]

I've got to disagree on this. Social workers have to make decisions in the best interest of the child. If it was just a case of someone opening up their family unit to a child in need, it would be easy but its much more complex than that. Language, religion, culture and even race are carefully looked at (by most) when it comes to fostering a child and rightly so because children need as much familiarity as we can possibly give them and on top of that, those children are not finding a permanent family but a temporary one.

I'm presently working with refugee kids. Many of them arrive here with no living family, many don't speak the language. Some of the younger children get fostered out to English families because there just aren't enough people from their own heritage that want to foster. Those kids do suffer further trauma because there's no familiarity. Of course its important that the child learns our language but we need to understand that these children aren't just Syrian, African or Iraqi by language but by culture and religion too.

As a kid we moved house and my parents binned everything and purchased all new furniture. I had a meltdown over the loss of an unfamiliar red lampshade. Of course, it wasn't just the lampshade, that was just the trigger. If the loss of familiar furniture can affect a child, imagine what its like for children who lose all familiarity. If only it was so simple as the love of a family. The reality is, its so much more.

I am aware of that and appreciate the considerations made, that said there should be no provisos that state that religion and/or race is a strict barrier to foster families.
What message is that sending out into communities, that there is to be strictly no integration, is it not better to deal with these considerations on a case by case basis?

[jaxie]

I would have thought a lack of English spoken in the home would be far worse for a child if English was their primary language, than a lack of bacon. Sensational story elements aside it may be that in the geographic area there wasn't a better match for the child and it was felt a family was better than an institution.

It isn't appropriate for a Christian child to be influenced negatively by other doctrine however there are much worse things that go in care.

[Cherie]

I am aware of that and appreciate the considerations made, that said there should be no provisos that state that religion and/or race is a strict barrier to foster families.
What message is that sending out into communities, that there is to be strictly no integration, is it not better to deal with these considerations on a case by case basis?

integration is one thing, putting a 5 year old child who just wants to be looked after into an unsuitable home is just plain wrong.

[Kizzy]

Can't be good for the anti Muslim brigade for them to be seen to be doing anything positive, there is no evidence they took her things and just because they speak another language that should not mean that they are unsuitable to foster English children.

The whole thing stinks if you ask me, I am wary of the slant given to this article as well as who and why they are railing against it. The rhetoric is distasteful, has anyone given any thought as to why she is in care initially?
No, appears not although the saddened mother, family , friends and grandparents are all notable appalled although strangely not by being less suitable to care for this little girl than the Muslim undesirables..... :/

[Northern Monkey]

Poor kid.What about when the kid hits 10,They gonna start making her do ramadan and starve her too?

[Niamh.]

Poor kid.What about when the kid hits 10,They gonna start making her do ramadan and starve her too?

I don't think children fast during Ramadan (not young children anyway)

[jaxie]

Can't be good for the anti Muslim brigade for them to be seen to be doing anything positive, there is no evidence they took her things and just because they speak another language that should not mean that they are unsuitable to foster English children.

The whole thing stinks if you ask me, I am wary of the slant given to this article as well as who and why they are railing against it. The rhetoric is distasteful, has anyone given any thought as to why she is in care initially?
No, appears not although the saddened mother, family , friends and grandparents are all notable appalled although strangely not by being less suitable to care for this little girl than the Muslim undesirables..... :/

You don't think it would be confusing for a child who only speaks English to be living in a home where English isn't spoken in the home?

Who and why are they railing against it?

[Northern Monkey]

I don't think children fast during Ramadan (not young children anyway)

Fasting is not obligatory for young children, until they reach the age of adolescence, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The pens have been lifted from three: from one who has lost his mind until he comes back to his senses, from one who is sleeping until he wakes up, and from a child until he reaches the age of adolescence.” Narrated by Abu Dawood, 4399; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.

Nevertheless, children should be told to fast so that they can get used to it, and because the good deeds that they do will be recorded for them.

The age at which parents should start to teach their children to fast is the age at which they are able to fast, which will vary according to each child’s physical makeup. Some scholars have defined this as being ten years of age.

Al-Kharqi said:

When a child is ten years old and is able to fast, he should start to do so.

https://islamqa.info/en/65558

[Niamh.]

Fasting is not obligatory for young children, until they reach the age of adolescence, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The pens have been lifted from three: from one who has lost his mind until he comes back to his senses, from one who is sleeping until he wakes up, and from a child until he reaches the age of adolescence.” Narrated by Abu Dawood, 4399; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.

Nevertheless, children should be told to fast so that they can get used to it, and because the good deeds that they do will be recorded for them.

The age at which parents should start to teach their children to fast is the age at which they are able to fast, which will vary according to each child’s physical makeup. Some scholars have defined this as being ten years of age.

Al-Kharqi said:

When a child is ten years old and is able to fast, he should start to do so.

https://islamqa.info/en/65558

Do children have to fast during Ramadan?
Not everyone has to observe Ramadan. Children do not have to fast. They should start when they reach the age of puberty, so long as they are healthy. People who are travelling long distances do not have to fast.
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramadan

[Northern Monkey]

Do children have to fast during Ramadan?
Not everyone has to observe Ramadan. Children do not have to fast. They should start when they reach the age of puberty, so long as they are healthy. People who are travelling long distances do not have to fast.
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramadan

But suppose these people believe in ramadan and they start trying to for this Christian girl to fast when she gets older?

[Niamh.]

But suppose these people believe in ramadan and they start trying to for this Christian girl to fast when she gets older?

That would be child abuse imo

[Kizzy]

You don't think it would be confusing for a child who only speaks English to be living in a home where English isn't spoken in the home?

Who and why are they railing against it?

How do they communicate with the child if they don't speak English? Yes they may speak their own language between themselves why is this such an issue?

The MP Phillip Hollobone for one has called for an immediate investigation as to how this was allowed to happen.

Should it be found that it is unacceptable for people to foster children who cannot speak their language or share a common religion how will that impact on the plight of child refugees?
It will be said that we cannot accept any child refugees as we cannot adequately home or support their complex needs....Sometimes you have to read between the lines to see what is really there.

[Cherie]

How do they communicate with the child if they don't speak English? Yes they may speak their own language between themselves why is this such an issue.

The MP Phillip Hollobone for one has called for an immediate investigation as to how this was allowed to happen.

Should it be found that it is unacceptable for people to foster children who cannot speak their language or share a common religion how will that impact on the plight of child refugees?
It will be said that we cannot accept any child refugees as we cannot adequately home or support their complex needs....Sometimes you have to read between the lines to see what is really there.

it is highly unlikely that this would have an adverse affect on rehoming refugees mainly because most speak some English and I doubt even a refugee would be rehomed in a home where they couldn't communicate.

[Kizzy]

it is highly unlikely that this would have an adverse affect on rehoming refugees mainly because most speak some English and I doubt even a refugee would be rehomed in a home where they couldn't communicate.

You are presuming a lot there Cherie, should they not speak English what is to happen to those children?

This family can speak English though and they are still being considered as unsuitable as they speak their own language in front of the child...confusing the child.

My fear is we're being duped, if it's found the public are in favour of not allowing English 'Christian' children to be fostered with Muslim families then I would say that that will then be flipped to apply that Muslim children cannot be fostered to English families whose cannot communicate in the language of the foster child as that is what 'the public' want.

[Brillopad]

How do they communicate with the child if they don't speak English? Yes they may speak their own language between themselves why is this such an issue?

The MP Phillip Hollobone for one has called for an immediate investigation as to how this was allowed to happen.

Should it be found that it is unacceptable for people to foster children who cannot speak their language or share a common religion how will that impact on the plight of child refugees?
It will be said that we cannot accept any child refugees as we cannot adequately home or support their complex needs....Sometimes you have to read between the lines to see what is really there.

It's an issue because the child was upset by it. She has had enough upset and disturbance in her life clearly without needing to be forced into a situation she was not happy in. I do hate it when peoples' ideology becomes more important that those most affected by it!

[Kizzy]

It's an issue because the child was upset by it. She has had enough upset and disturbance in her life clearly without needing to be forced into a situation she was not happy in. I do hate it when peoples' ideology becomes more important that those most affected by it!

What ideology is this... are you accusing me of something here?

The child is fostered, she is 5yrs old the poor little girl is going to be unsettled regardless, that is a sad fact.

[Beso]

Can't be good for the anti Muslim brigade for them to be seen to be doing anything positive, there is no evidence they took her things and just because they speak another language that should not mean that they are unsuitable to foster English children.

The whole thing stinks if you ask me, I am wary of the slant given to this article as well as who and why they are railing against it. The rhetoric is distasteful, has anyone given any thought as to why she is in care initially?
No, appears not although the saddened mother, family , friends and grandparents are all notable appalled although strangely not by being less suitable to care for this little girl than the Muslim undesirables..... :/

Who and why...can you narrow that down please..

I think if you dont spk the language of the child you are fostering then how on earth can you give them the advice or support they will need?

Sorry, but i cant get my head round why you would think that?

[Kizzy]

Who and why...can you narrow that down please..

I think if you dont spk the language of the child you are fostering then how on earth can you give them the advice or support they will need?

Sorry, but i cant get my head round why you would think that?

They do speak the language, I suggest you read the article, I'm not explaining the entire debate to you.

[Kizzy]

'MPs have expressed concern over the case, including Robert Halfon, the Conservative chairman of the Commons education committee, who said it would be equally concerning if a Muslim child who did not speak English were placed with a Christian foster carer whose family did not speak the child’s language.'


And there we have it, the proof that this is the crux of the issue and this poor little girl is just being used as some pawn in a sick political game to influence public opinion.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/aug/29/london-tower-hamlets-council-questioned-after-placing-christian-girl-with-muslim-foster-carers

[Brillopad]

What ideology is this... are you accusing me of something here?

The child is fostered, she is 5yrs old the poor little girl is going to be unsettled regardless, that is a sad fact.

Did you read the article she was very distressed about being in a home where they didn't speak the same language as her. She did not want to stay there.

Sorry but I often feel you see culture before you see people, no doubt something you would accuse me of, but nevertheless not ideal and just from a different perspective.

[Kizzy]

Did you read the article she was very distressed about being in a home where they didn't speak the same language as her. She did not want to stay there.

Sorry but I often feel you see culture before you see people, no doubt something you would accuse me of, but nevertheless not ideal and just from a different perspective.

Yes I read the article, they can speak her language, she may not wish to stay there but is that the issue?
Across the country can we be sure all other foster children are happy in their placements?
Your presumptions on my character are unwarranted and inaccurate, as are your thoughts on what my view may be on yours.

[Brillopad]

Yes I read the article, they can speak her language, she may not wish to stay there but is that the issue?
Across the country can we be sure all other foster children are happy in their placements?
Your presumptions on my character are unwarranted and inaccurate, as are your thoughts on what my view may be on yours.

As foster parents they have responsibilities and they should speak English around her as it obviously upsets her when they don't.

[Beso]

They do speak the language, I suggest you read the article, I'm not explaining the entire debate to you.


You dont have to e plain the entire debate..just the bit highlighted...

Then can you explain why you are willing to believe the part about them spking english but are less willing to believe some other points like the food and the cross?

[Kizzy]

As foster parents they have responsibilities and they should speak English around her as it obviously upsets her when they don't.

Imagine for the purpose of the debate you were to foster a refugee child, could you in all honesty say that you would never speak English in their presence?... Let's be realistic.
They weren't setting out to upset her just by talking.

[Kizzy]

You dont have to e plain the entire debate..just the bit highlighted...

Then can you explain why you are willing to believe the part about them spking english but are less willing to believe some other points like the food and the cross?

We don't know the accuracy of the cross issue it seems a little strange to me that a 5yr old would relay such specific details with relation to bacon, easter and the drinking habits of western women.

[Brillopad]

We don't know the accuracy of the cross issue it seems a little strange to me that a 5yr old would relay such specific details with relation to bacon, easter and the drinking habits of western women.

It wasn't bacon as such but carbonara her favourite meal her mum used to cook her, apparently she wasn't allowed to have it because it had bacon in it.

[Beso]

We don't know the accuracy of the cross issue it seems a little strange to me that a 5yr old would relay such specific details with relation to bacon, easter and the drinking habits of western women.

You do know five yr olds are old enough to go to school and converse with teacher..the mum could simply have asked where is your necklace darling...simple answer is i am not allowed to wear it....even me at 5 could have said that.

[jaxie]

It's an issue because the child was upset by it. She has had enough upset and disturbance in her life clearly without needing to be forced into a situation she was not happy in. I do hate it when peoples' ideology becomes more important that those most affected by it!

I would imagine it would be quite frightening for a young child if everyone around her kept talking in a language she didn't understand. :shrug:

[Kizzy]

This child has been removed from her carbonara making mother to the safety of this family, I think it's important to maintain some perspective on this issue.

[Toy Soldier]

This child has been removed from her carbonara making mother to the safety of this family, I think it's important to maintain some perspective on this issue.

To be fair Kizzy, that's a bit of a snap judgement, her mother could be critically ill or dead for all we know :/

[Brillopad]

This child has been removed from her carbonara making mother to the safety of this family, I think it's important to maintain some perspective on this issue.

Whose making a lot of assumptions now. You know nothing about the family circumstances and how temporary the situation may be. Neither do you know how 'safe' this foster family is.

To automatically believe all foster families are good, safe, caring people is naive and being biased towards a group of people is no better than being biased against. :bored:

[Beso]

This child has been removed from her carbonara making mother to the safety of this family, I think it's important to maintain some perspective on this issue.

Wow, just wow.:facepalm:

[Tozzie]

I'm in shock... someone has it in their heart to open their family to a child in need and straight away there are those who take that a a negative.

Shameful.

it is negative when they take a cross from the child, thats shameful

[Toy Soldier]

Whose making a lot of assumptions now. You know nothing about the family circumstances and how temporary the situation may be. Neither do you know how 'safe' this foster family is.

To automatically believe all foster families are good, safe, caring people is naive and being biased towards a group of people is no better than being biased against. :bored:

Wow, just wow.:facepalm:

You know it's a bizarre day on TiBB when I find myself agreeing with Brillo and Parm... but, yeah.

Kizzy I'm sort of really surprised at the judgement here; children end up in the care system for all sorts of reasons and we have no idea at all what her circumstances are. We also have no idea what the circumstances in the foster care home are. And whilst, yes, there is a decent chance that people are pre-judging the situation based on prejudice, (...gulp...) what Brillo says is true :umm2:. "Positive discrimination and bias" towards a group of people isn't a lot better than the opposite; especially in a sensitive situation like this. "Assuming the best" doesn't redress others "assuming the worst". We don't know if the situation is good. We don't know if it's bad. And we don't know why she's there. At the end of the day it doesn't sound like the placement is right for this child, that much can be more or less deduced, and that's all that really matters here.

There's a time and a place for trying to address issues of racial / cultural discrimination where it exists. Finding the right home for a child is NOT that time or place.

[DemolitionRed]

You dont have to e plain the entire debate..just the bit highlighted...

Then can you explain why you are willing to believe the part about them spking english but are less willing to believe some other points like the food and the cross?

The cross and the carbonara is just hyper bait to add fuel to the fire.

@ Kizzy Imagine for the purpose of the debate you were to foster a refugee child, could you in all honesty say that you would never speak English in their presence?... Let's be realistic.
They weren't setting out to upset her just by talking.

English families that foster refugees aren't expected to speak anything other than English. That's because the child is going to be raised, go to school and eventually be employed in an English speaking nation so its important they pick up the language. Its highly unlikely though, that a child with no English would be placed in such a family. They will normally spend some time in a residential facility with a translator to hand. My gripe with the 'speak nothing but English' rule is, there is still a chance that family can be found and such children may be able to, at some point, return to their country of birth; if not as children, as adults. I don't think we should ever presume its okay for them to lose their mother tongue.

[Cherie]

This child has been removed from her carbonara making mother to the safety of this family, I think it's important to maintain some perspective on this issue.

:joker:

[Toy Soldier]

The cross and the carbonara is just hyper bait to add fuel to the fire.



English families that foster refugees aren't expected to speak anything other than English. That's because the child is going to be raised, go to school and eventually be employed in an English speaking nation so its important they pick up the language. Its highly unlikely though, that a child with no English would be placed in such a family. They will normally spend some time in a residential facility with a translator to hand. My gripe with the 'speak nothing but English' rule is, there is still a chance that family can be found and such children may be able to, at some point, return to their country of birth; if not as children, as adults. I don't think we should ever presume its okay for them to lose their mother tongue.

Once language is "set" it doesn't get lost, really, so any child of "speaking age" (say 4+ for the majority) will always have their native tongue as a language. At the very least, they would pick it up again very quickly in their home country. There's a high chance that they will always at least partially "think in that language".

[Kizzy]

Whose making a lot of assumptions now. You know nothing about the family circumstances and how temporary the situation may be. Neither do you know how 'safe' this foster family is.

To automatically believe all foster families are good, safe, caring people is naive and being biased towards a group of people is no better than being biased against. :bored:

Why would they not be 'safe'... I'm sorry I think you're biased in your opinion because they're Muslim.

[Kizzy]

You know it's a bizarre day on TiBB when I find myself agreeing with Brillo and Parm... but, yeah.

Kizzy I'm sort of really surprised at the judgement here; children end up in the care system for all sorts of reasons and we have no idea at all what her circumstances are. We also have no idea what the circumstances in the foster care home are. And whilst, yes, there is a decent chance that people are pre-judging the situation based on prejudice, (...gulp...) what Brillo says is true :umm2:. "Positive discrimination and bias" towards a group of people isn't a lot better than the opposite; especially in a sensitive situation like this. "Assuming the best" doesn't redress others "assuming the worst". We don't know if the situation is good. We don't know if it's bad. And we don't know why she's there. At the end of the day it doesn't sound like the placement is right for this child, that much can be more or less deduced, and that's all that really matters here.

There's a time and a place for trying to address issues of racial / cultural discrimination where it exists. Finding the right home for a child is NOT that time or place.

We don't know why she is in the care system other than that she was 'forcibly' separated from her family, and that she has been in the system for months and months and months, it is not fair for the mother complain that she has not been placed with grandparents, if that was a viable option, and in the majority of cases it is that would have been the first place social services would be looking to place her.

The 'friends' of the family making complaints to have added fuel to the fire of discrimination against the family without any real evidence, it's been taken as red that the child has been in some way been 'abused' by hearing foreign voices, not been served bacon and other alleged slurs against Christian holidays. It's being turned into a witch hunt and personally I find it really distasteful.

We only have one side on this 'debate' which is the slanted article in the Times, therefore I'm not sure how me calling for perspective is so hilarious :/

[Beso]

Bit of an update...

The child was first housed with a muslim family where all this hassle has come from...then housed with a more liberal muslim family.....now she has been housed with her grandparents which was the original wish of the mother...good old tower hamlets..forever abusung the system...labour run i think?

Amazing what a news story can do...well done all outlets that published this story.

[Toy Soldier]

To be fair, in these situations grandparents do need to be assessed in exactly the same way as any other care arrangement before getting custody of a child. That's because if there are major issues that mean a child can't stay with a parent... A large percentage of the time, there will also be issues in the grandparents home life too. Obviously not always, some people fall into a bad lifestyle for other reasons, but the vast majority of the time if you want to figure out the source of a person's deep personal issues you don't have to look much further than their own parents.

[Beso]

Questions must be asked why, if the child is now housed with her grandparents, was she not put their originally.

It does highlight in the original story tower hamlets disregard for the guidlines set out for social services.

[Toy Soldier]

Questions must be asked why, if the child is now housed with her grandparents, was she not put their originally.

Because like I said... If her mother has major personal issues then there's always the chance (a good chance) that there were big problems in her OWN childhood. So the grandparents living situation has to be assessed before giving them full responsibility for another child, or it's just history repeating.

But like I said it's not ALWAYS due to further family problems and also people's living situations can change over the years (e.g. Perhaps the grandparents once had an unstable or chaotic living situation, but are settled now) and in this case obviously they have determined that it's a suitable home for the child. But, they do have to check. Imagine the backlash if a child was taken from parents and given to grandparents, only for them to come to real harm with those grandparents.

[Vicky.]

I thought foster caring was kind of classed as a job...which would surely mean religious beliefs cannot be forced on children who have been fostered?

Either way this is totally wrong tbh.

[Oliver_W]

I thought foster caring was kind of classed as a job...which would surely mean religious beliefs cannot be forced on children who have been fostered?

Either way this is totally wrong tbh.

It's kind of classes as a job. It doesn't pay enough to be a sole source of income, but I gather at least one parent is expected to be home all the timee.

[Kizzy]

They did speak English, and they were mixed race did it ever occur to anyone to question why the plight of this little girl made the front page of the times?....

Children in foster care and local authority care have been systematically abused for years, why is this case held up for scrutiny?

On the face of it it makes no sense, I have my own theory as I've stated.

Here is a slightly more balanced article, this whole thing has left a very nasty taste in my mouth as to where this country is going.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/muslim-foster-family_uk_59a416a3e4b05710aa5d9415

[Beso]

They did speak English, and they were mixed race did it ever occur to anyone to question why the plight of this little girl made the front page of the times?....

Children in foster care and local authority care have been systematically abused for years, why is this case held up for scrutiny?

On the face of it it makes no sense, I have my own theory as I've stated.

Here is a slightly more balanced article, this whole thing has left a very nasty taste in my mouth as to where this country is going.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/muslim-foster-family_uk_59a416a3e4b05710aa5d9415

Im guessing this case is highlighted because its in tower hamlets and we all, unfortunatly know just how inept and treacherous the care system has been and still is....

The poor kid would still be suffering if this hadnt come to light.

[Beso]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/muslim-foster-family_uk_59a416a3e4b05710aa5d9415



And it does not highlight any new information it just repeats the original story....can you point out where it differs kizzy cause all i see is the same stuff that was in the original story repeated and some tweets about it.

[Kizzy]

Im guessing this case is highlighted because its in tower hamlets and we all, unfortunatly know just how inept and treacherous the care system has been and still is....

The poor kid would still be suffering if this hadnt come to light.

Why are you making reference to Tower Hamlets being inept as opposed to anywhere else?

Suffering?... Not being fed bacon is NOT suffering by anyones standards, this 'case' is at best a joke and at worst evidence of how racism is now an accepted norm in society so much so it is front and centre in the times.

[Kizzy]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/muslim-foster-family_uk_59a416a3e4b05710aa5d9415



And it does not highlight any new information it just repeats the original story....can you point out where it differs kizzy cause all i see is the same stuff that was in the original story repeated and some tweets about it.

I didn't say it offered any new information, I stated it was more balanced.
The tweets highlight the bias in the original article.

[Beso]

Why are you making reference to Tower Hamlets being inept as opposed to anywhere else?

Suffering?... Not being fed bacon is NOT suffering by anyones standards, this 'case' is at best a joke and at worst evidence of how racism is now an accepted norm in society so much so it is front and centre in the times.

because tower hamlets has been slated in the past for not following the guidlines set out by the government regarding social care and this case highlights that they are still doing it...also, this case is in the tower hamlets area so i would be foolish to bring up anywhere else in regards to discussing this case.

ignore the bacon silliness and concentrate on the isolation this girl must have felt...ask yourself why would they not house her with her grandparents in the first place if they are good enough to house her there now???


to me it looks like the tower hamlets care system are ignoring guidlines set out by the government and making up their own rules....why do this?

[Toy Soldier]

Why are you making reference to Tower Hamlets being inept as opposed to anywhere else?

Suffering?... Not being fed bacon is NOT suffering by anyones standards, this 'case' is at best a joke and at worst evidence of how racism is now an accepted norm in society so much so it is front and centre in the times.

I still have to disagree with this Kizzy. I can accept that it being turned into "big news" (when it should really be an entirely private thing) is probably an agenda at work, however, as for the case itself... being selective about where a 5 year old child is placed in a foster setting is in no way "racism". On top of all of the other uprooting, anxiety, confusion and trauma that a young child would be feeling at a time like that, culture shock is not something to just throw into the mix "because in an ideal world it would be fine". The fact of the matter is, it WOULD be a strange and unfamiliar environment for a child to suddenly find themself in, and it could cause untold damage even if the foster carers had the best intentions in the world.

I'm not saying that it should only be "like for like" but I do think that if a fostering family has ANY strict religion, culture or belief then they can only really foster children who come from that background. Be that Muslims, Christians, Atheists, whatever. That's not to say that religion in itself should be a barrier but only where it's flexible - i.e. a "more modern" Muslim household who are prepared to accept and accomodate a child from a Christian background (by celebrating christmas with them, allowing them to eat the food they like, etc.) and that goes for any fostering family. It would be JUST as much a problem if a "staunchly Atheist" family was to foster a Christian or Muslim child and start telling them that they don't allow any religious imagery / belief / celebration in their house... for example. I would fully expect an atheist foster family to facilitate a Muslim child in observing their religious celebrations and occasions.

So it's not about this family being Muslim. Its about ensuring that terrified, anxious children who have already experienced untold upheaval and upset aren't thrown into situations even further removed from their usual life.

[Niamh.]

Yeah you can't argue with that logic really ^

Bottom line should be that the child is the most important person to consider in all of this, having to be placed in a strange environment wit strangers is going to be hard enough for them to cope with as it is without giving them even more **** to deal with

[Kizzy]

because tower hamlets has been slated in the past for not following the guidlines set out by the government regarding social care and this case highlights that they are still doing it...also, this case is in the tower hamlets area so i would be foolish to bring up anywhere else in regards to discussing this case.

ignore the bacon silliness and concentrate on the isolation this girl must have felt...ask yourself why would they not house her with her grandparents in the first place if they are good enough to house her there now???


to me it looks like the tower hamlets care system are ignoring guidelines set out by the government and making up their own rules....why do this?

There are failings everywhere, due to lack of resources, funding and staffing health and social care is in crisis across the country is in crisis, if you think Tower Hamlets is an isolated area you're sadly mistaken.
It's an area of high socio economic deprivation and crime, they are stretched to breaking point.

The bacon silliness was the whole premise of the article though, the lies in the article that they were a no English speaking family is rubbish, that begs the question what else have they lied about? They know that Tower Hamlets hands are tied due to this being an open case. It is interesting the a judge only placed the child back with the family after intervention from the times, MP Phillip Hollobone and none other than the chairman of the Commons education committee Robert Halfon....very odd imo.

[Kizzy]

I still have to disagree with this Kizzy. I can accept that it being turned into "big news" (when it should really be an entirely private thing) is probably an agenda at work, however, as for the case itself... being selective about where a 5 year old child is placed in a foster setting is in no way "racism". On top of all of the other uprooting, anxiety, confusion and trauma that a young child would be feeling at a time like that, culture shock is not something to just throw into the mix "because in an ideal world it would be fine". The fact of the matter is, it WOULD be a strange and unfamiliar environment for a child to suddenly find themself in, and it could cause untold damage even if the foster carers had the best intentions in the world.

I'm not saying that it should only be "like for like" but I do think that if a fostering family has ANY strict religion, culture or belief then they can only really foster children who come from that background. Be that Muslims, Christians, Atheists, whatever. That's not to say that religion in itself should be a barrier but only where it's flexible - i.e. a "more modern" Muslim household who are prepared to accept and accomodate a child from a Christian background (by celebrating christmas with them, allowing them to eat the food they like, etc.) and that goes for any fostering family. It would be JUST as much a problem if a "staunchly Atheist" family was to foster a Christian or Muslim child and start telling them that they don't allow any religious imagery / belief / celebration in their house... for example. I would fully expect an atheist foster family to facilitate a Muslim child in observing their religious celebrations and occasions.

So it's not about this family being Muslim. Its about ensuring that terrified, anxious children who have already experienced untold upheaval and upset aren't thrown into situations even further removed from their usual life.

That's fine disagree, for me it was the bias of the article and the hooha created by right wing politicians that rang alarm bells for me. I agree matching like for like is a common sense approach, these were English speaking mixed race Muslims is that really such a barrier ... In Tower Hamlets?
Should it be? where does profiling end and segregation begin?

What is it about this particular case that caused such controversy, I wasn't going to say it but I will, this child is held up to mean more because she is white and a Christian.
Who cares where the poor refugee children are, the brown Muslims ones holed up in detention centres...

Who cared about the kids from Grenfell where are they, where's the article in the times for them?

Once again my whole issue with this is perspective, I hate the thought of any child upset..not just ones placed with Muslims, all

[Toy Soldier]

That's fine disagree, for me it was the bias of the article and the hooha created by right wing politicians that rang alarm bells for me. I agree matching like for like is a common sense approach, these were English speaking mixed race Muslims is that really such a barrier ... In Tower Hamlets?
Should it be? where does profiling end and segregation begin?


Again, it shouldn't be a barrier so long as there is complete flexibility in the new home. e.g.

A Muslim family saying "We don't celebrate Christmas but we understand that you do, so we will celebrate it with you, and you can celebrate with us." ... or "As Muslims we don't eat bacon, but you can still eat it."

Or a Christian / Atheist family fostering a Muslim refugee child saying "We don't know anything about Eid but we know you celebrate it, so we'll learn about it and celebrate it with you".


THEN it's less of a problem. But yes - if a child from one background is fostered into a family and they are suddenly told that they "aren't allowed" to do things, or can't take part in things, that have been normal in their life - even if to us as adults they seem like "minor things" - then it is a genuine problem.

[Kizzy]

Again, it shouldn't be a barrier so long as there is complete flexibility in the new home. e.g.

A Muslim family saying "We don't celebrate Christmas but we understand that you do, so we will celebrate it with you, and you can celebrate with us." ... or "As Muslims we don't eat bacon, but you can still eat it."

Or a Christian / Atheist family fostering a Muslim refugee child saying "We don't know anything about Eid but we know you celebrate it, so we'll learn about it and celebrate it with you".


THEN it's less of a problem. But yes - if a child from one background is fostered into a family and they are suddenly told that they "aren't allowed" to do things, or can't take part in things, that have been normal in their life - even if to us as adults they seem like "minor things" - then it is a genuine problem.

I would have thought that went without saying in all fairness, there are currently guidelines covering such issues. We have little to no proof that any of the scenarios in the article actually transpired do we? And Tower Hamlets have no right to reply to this divisory article.

[Beso]

I would have thought that went without saying in all fairness, there are currently guidelines covering such issues. We have little to no proof that any of the scenarios in the article actually transpired do we? And Tower Hamlets have no right to reply to this divisory article.

Yes guidlines that tower hamlets have ignored yet again even after being critisised in the past for ignoring guidlines..the worst performing area in the uk.

[jaxie]

I still have to disagree with this Kizzy. I can accept that it being turned into "big news" (when it should really be an entirely private thing) is probably an agenda at work, however, as for the case itself... being selective about where a 5 year old child is placed in a foster setting is in no way "racism". On top of all of the other uprooting, anxiety, confusion and trauma that a young child would be feeling at a time like that, culture shock is not something to just throw into the mix "because in an ideal world it would be fine". The fact of the matter is, it WOULD be a strange and unfamiliar environment for a child to suddenly find themself in, and it could cause untold damage even if the foster carers had the best intentions in the world.

I'm not saying that it should only be "like for like" but I do think that if a fostering family has ANY strict religion, culture or belief then they can only really foster children who come from that background. Be that Muslims, Christians, Atheists, whatever. That's not to say that religion in itself should be a barrier but only where it's flexible - i.e. a "more modern" Muslim household who are prepared to accept and accomodate a child from a Christian background (by celebrating christmas with them, allowing them to eat the food they like, etc.) and that goes for any fostering family. It would be JUST as much a problem if a "staunchly Atheist" family was to foster a Christian or Muslim child and start telling them that they don't allow any religious imagery / belief / celebration in their house... for example. I would fully expect an atheist foster family to facilitate a Muslim child in observing their religious celebrations and occasions.

So it's not about this family being Muslim. Its about ensuring that terrified, anxious children who have already experienced untold upheaval and upset aren't thrown into situations even further removed from their usual life.

Great post, well put.

People are suggesting the bacon thing is silly and it might seem that way to an adult but you also have to remember that some children can be very fussy eaters and if bacon is one of a limited food group that the child likes or carbonara with bacon as has been mentioned, this could be a huge issue resulting in difficult mealtimes and refusal of food.

[jaxie]

That's fine disagree, for me it was the bias of the article and the hooha created by right wing politicians that rang alarm bells for me. I agree matching like for like is a common sense approach, these were English speaking mixed race Muslims is that really such a barrier ... In Tower Hamlets?
Should it be? where does profiling end and segregation begin?

What is it about this particular case that caused such controversy, I wasn't going to say it but I will, this child is held up to mean more because she is white and a Christian.
Who cares where the poor refugee children are, the brown Muslims ones holed up in detention centres...

Who cared about the kids from Grenfell where are they, where's the article in the times for them?

Once again my whole issue with this is perspective, I hate the thought of any child upset..not just ones placed with Muslims, all

I think you have racism stuck in your headlights and you aren't looking at the situation with common sense. If you think about the confusion of any child in this situation you see what most people are saying.

It seems to me that the biggest issue for this particular child is a familiarity issue, out of her comfort zone anyway, away from family, then put with people who have very different beliefs, eating habits, perhaps speaking a foreign language in the home. No matter how well intentioned they might be, this is a five year old and it's probably more than she should have to handle all at once.

[Northern Monkey]

Great post, well put.

People are suggesting the bacon thing is silly and it might seem that way to an adult but you also have to remember that some children can be very fussy eaters and if bacon is one of a limited food group that the child likes or carbonara with bacon as has been mentioned, this could be a huge issue resulting in difficult mealtimes and refusal of food.

So true.It can be hard enough to get them to eat at times.

[Northern Monkey]

I think you have racism stuck in your headlights and you aren't looking at the situation with common sense. If you think about the confusion of any child in this situation you see what most people are saying.

It seems to me that the biggest issue for this particular child is a familiarity issue, out of her comfort zone anyway, away from family, then put with people who have very different beliefs, eating habits, perhaps speaking a foreign language in the home. No matter how well intentioned they might be, this is a five year old and it's probably more than she should have to handle all at once.

:clap1:

Kids of that age can be set in their ways due to having their own routine.That routine is their whole world.Turning it upside down is a massive thing for them.

[Kizzy]

I think you have racism stuck in your headlights and you aren't looking at the situation with common sense. If you think about the confusion of any child in this situation you see what most people are saying.

It seems to me that the biggest issue for this particular child is a familiarity issue, out of her comfort zone anyway, away from family, then put with people who have very different beliefs, eating habits, perhaps speaking a foreign language in the home. No matter how well intentioned they might be, this is a five year old and it's probably more than she should have to handle all at once.

Please don't make presumptions in relation to my reasoning, I'm looking in the context in which it was presented, there was a deliberate slant to the article that coloured any genuine concern for the child or looked after children in general in that article.

Of course in an ideal world all needs of looked after children should be met, but they aren't are they? that is the harsh reality of social services in the UK.

[jaxie]

Please don't make presumptions in relation to my reasoning, I'm looking in the context in which it was presented, there was a deliberate slant to the article that coloured any genuine concern for the child or looked after children in general in that article.

Of course in an ideal world all needs of looked after children should be met, but they aren't are they? that is the harsh reality of social services in the UK.

I wasn't making presumptions I was responding to things you've typed. I think you are taking the article too much at face value rather than thinking about the confusion of the child but there isn't any point in discussing it further with you as you are getting defensive.

[Kizzy]

I wasn't making presumptions I was responding to things you've typed. I think you are taking the article too much at face value rather than thinking about the confusion of the child but there isn't any point in discussing it further with you as you are getting defensive.

No there isn't as you are becoming accusatory, I have had my say as have others, I don't feel that warrants your projections as to perceived flaws in my reasoning.

[Cherie]

There are failings everywhere, due to lack of resources, funding and staffing health and social care is in crisis across the country is in crisis, if you think Tower Hamlets is an isolated area you're sadly mistaken.
It's an area of high socio economic deprivation and crime, they are stretched to breaking point.

The bacon silliness was the whole premise of the article though, the lies in the article that they were a no English speaking family is rubbish, that begs the question what else have they lied about? They know that Tower Hamlets hands are tied due to this being an open case. It is interesting the a judge only placed the child back with the family after intervention from the times, MP Phillip Hollobone and none other than the chairman of the Commons education committee Robert Halfon....very odd imo.


Actually someone interviewed from the council said they have funds for fostering but a severe shortage of foster carers, so it is not about financial resources being stretched in this instance, it's very easy to fall back on ...lack of funding, blah blah when it might come down to someone doing their job very badly?

[Toy Soldier]

Actually someone interviewed from the council said they have funds for fostering but a severe shortage of foster carers, so it is not about financial resources being stretched in this instance, it's very easy to fall back on ...lack of funding, blah blah when it might come down to someone doing their job very badly?That's usually the case, sadly. Looking after kids is hard work, even your own kids, even well adjusted kids. Which means that looking after someone else's child who is likely to have some trauma and behavioural issues is an even tougher job... And not one that you even get to clock out of at the end of the day. That's why being a foster carer pays so well... Fostering 2 children is the equivalent of nearly a £70k salary, plus you get an extra chunk on your tax free allowance so take home pay is even better. Plus if it's a couple, one person can still work full time on top of that... The household could easily be bringing home the equivalent of a six-figure salary.

And even then they struggle to have enough good foster homes. I think that shows just how difficult a job it is. Even with huge financial incentives, not enough people are choosing to do it.

And of course a small number of people who choose to do it ARE in it with pound signs in their eyes... Like I said before, passing all of the disclosures and criminal record checks doesn't automatically mean someone is a good or caring person. This usually happens with teens in my experience.

Young kids are constant hard work, but you get just as much for fostering a 14 year old. Give them a bedroom stocked with a huge TV, Internet, games consoles, a mini fridge... and tell them they can have people round so long as they stay in there, or let them go out and do whatever they want... And it's a pay cheque for a teen you'll hardly ever even see. Sadly it's also a kid who could do with some positive attention and motivation being ignored, again, and at 16 they're out on their arse and often on the way to a substance abuse problem.

[RichardG]

I think you have racism stuck in your headlights and you aren't looking at the situation with common sense. If you think about the confusion of any child in this situation you see what most people are saying.

It seems to me that the biggest issue for this particular child is a familiarity issue, out of her comfort zone anyway, away from family, then put with people who have very different beliefs, eating habits, perhaps speaking a foreign language in the home. No matter how well intentioned they might be, this is a five year old and it's probably more than she should have to handle all at once.

this is all true

[the truth]

"Muslim foster carers told Christian girl, five, that Christmas and Easter are stupid and European women are alcoholics after taking away her crucifix and stopping her from eating bacon"

But also, they don't speak English :think:.


Sooo. OK in general, I would say that vulnerable and already confused kids going into foster care should be placed with a family that is a good match for them... that much is common sense. So placing a child of one (or no) religion with a family that is going to enforce a different religion is an obvious massive error.

That aside, however, I suspect that this article is rather exaggerated?

typical. the left always choose to ignore all stories that dont fit or suit their narrow liberal agenda....every single argument they simply blame the daily mail, just so pathetic

[Kizzy]

Actually someone interviewed from the council said they have funds for fostering but a severe shortage of foster carers, so it is not about financial resources being stretched in this instance, it's very easy to fall back on ...lack of funding, blah blah when it might come down to someone doing their job very badly?

Should that be the case blah blah, then where is that conversation I'd like to see it. There are no funding/staffing issues in social care?

Again I would like to remind people that the article is slanted and one sided, we have nothing in way of proof that the foster family did not do their job properly or that the social workers involved did not do theirs.

[the truth]

Should that be the case blah blah, why then is a shortage of foster carers given as an example of someone not doing their job blah?

Labour think everything is about money, they are so mercenary. Yet they throw money around like confetti. They also do a disastrous job running councils, always over nudget, always wasteful, always dreadful communication, always giving too many contracts to firms who havent got the capacity, so much nepotism and favouritism and waste and corruption. Yet they have the temerity to preach about needing more money. Labour are a bunch of hypocrites. Oh but of course they claim the last 20 years wasnt them, it was new labour, very convenient. They havent changed. Theve destroyed this country with their illegal wars, their spin, their bankrupt economy, their champagn cocialism, theire deregulation of the banks, their selling the gold off cheap, their endless petty laws and nanny state breed for benefits culture and rising debts and unemployment. not to forget massive population rises, absurd levels of political correctness leading to 20,000 children being abused in rotherham but the police too scared to report these abusers as the majority were of asian descent and the cops wer scared be caled racist by the pc brigade and the filthiest hospitals with the worst mrsa in the western world

[Toy Soldier]

typical. the left always choose to ignore all stories that dont fit or suit their narrow liberal agenda....every single argument they simply blame the daily mail, just so pathetic

Congratulations on clearly not reading past the first few posts of the thread :clap1:.

[Kizzy]

The mother of a five-year-old English-speaking girl who was reportedly distressed at being placed in a foster home with a Muslim couple was born into the Islamic faith, court documents have revealed.

A court order from judge Khatun Sapnara states the girl's maternal grandparents are "of a Muslim background but are non practising."
It also revealed she had been taken away from her mother in March this year by police.

The girl could end up living abroad with the grandmother, who wants to move to her country of origin,

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/mother-christian-girl-muslim-foster-parents-tower-hamlets-family-background-religion-faith-a7921431.html

[Niamh.]

The mother of a five-year-old English-speaking girl who was reportedly distressed at being placed in a foster home with a Muslim couple was born into the Islamic faith, court documents have revealed.

A court order from judge Khatun Sapnara states the girl's maternal grandparents are "of a Muslim background but are non practising."
It also revealed she had been taken away from her mother in March this year by police.

The girl could end up living abroad with the grandmother, who wants to move to her country of origin,

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/mother-christian-girl-muslim-foster-parents-tower-hamlets-family-background-religion-faith-a7921431.html

There you go, never the full story

[jaxie]

I don't think the statement that the child's mother was born into the Muslim faith makes much sense or that much difference to the discussion we've had in this thread. You aren't born into a faith, you are taught one and in this case Islam clearly wasn't what this child had been taught.

It seems rather like saying my mother was born believing in fairies so this must bear some reflection on me too and yet she'd never told me anything about the fairies she came out of the womb believing in. Sounds a bit daft doesn't it?

If one set of grandparents were non practising Muslims that seems kind of irrelevant since they were non practising.

[Brillopad]

I don't think the statement that the child's mother was born into the Muslim faith makes much sense or that much difference to the discussion we've had in this thread. You aren't born into a faith, you are taught one and in this case Islam clearly wasn't what this child had been taught.

It seems rather like saying my mother was born believing in fairies so this must bear some reflection on me too and yet she'd never told me anything about the fairies she came out of the womb believing in. Sounds a bit daft doesn't it?

If one set of grandparents were non practising Muslims that seems kind of irrelevant since they were non practising.

My thoughts too. As non-practicing Muslims they may have been more aware of the damage religious indoctrination can do and worried that their daughter/granddaughter may have been exposed to such beliefs.

[Kizzy]

My thoughts too. As non-practicing Muslims they may have been more aware of the damage religious indoctrination can do and worried that their daughter/granddaughter may have been exposed to such beliefs.

And what is wrong with Muslim beliefs? As opposed to being raised with Christian beliefs..

Are you mistaking ordinary peaceful people for extremists again?

[Brillopad]

And what is wrong with Muslim beliefs? As opposed to being raised with Christian beliefs..

Are you mistaking ordinary peaceful people for extremists again?

Maybe as non-practising Muslims the grandparents had a better understanding of some Muslim beliefs than non-Muslims.

[Kizzy]

Maybe as non-practising Muslims the grandparents had a better understanding of some Muslim beliefs than non-Muslims.

And?... all religions have their specific dogmas that are considered out of touch, have you hard the recent mumblings of ghoul mogg and his 'conservative' ( extremist) catholic views?