Rise of the afd in Germany

[jaxie]

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/24/germany-elections-afd-europe-immigration-merkel-radical-right

Chose this link to open a discussion on the results of the German elections.

[Underscore]

I just can't believe some people can stomach voting for this kind of party. The sheer language that is spewed from it, if not the disgusting policies...

[jaxie]

I think it's possibly a reflection of their frustration more than anything, ukip was the same sort of thing.

[Oliver_W]

If Merkel manages to win after flinging the country's doors open to the third world, she must be a witch.

[Firewire]

If Merkel manages to win after flinging the country's doors open to the third world, she must be a witch.

Are people from "third world" countries, as you put it, not entitled to a better life?

[Oliver_W]

No-one's entitled to anything, and there's not unlimited space and resources in Europe.

[Northern Monkey]

There’s only one person to blame for the AFD gaining any power and that is Merkel.

[AProducer'sWetDream]

I think it's too simple to blame it soley on Merkel and her refugee policy, though it was certainly something they could latch on to and campaign on. I mean, look at the rise of Drumpf in America. They have barely taken in any refugees and their immigration controls are pretty tight. There is a larger force at play- the same thing that caused Brexit and Drumpf, and helped Le Pen and now the AfD.

[waterhog]

like bexit - trump - it shows people are not happy and the main partys are not offering a clear path to what we all desire or want.

they are all shooting themselves in the feet. self blame won't ever happen - its coming from the hog. :joker:

[Oliver_W]

I think it's too simple to blame it soley on Merkel and her refugee policy, though it was certainly something they could latch on to and campaign on. I mean, look at the rise of Drumpf in America. They have barely taken in any refugees and their immigration controls are pretty tight. There is a larger force at play- the same thing that caused Brexit and Drumpf, and helped Le Pen and now the AfD.

And what might that "larger force" be?

[Nicky91]

i cannot believe there were people voting for the AFD, same right party which supported Hitler before WW2 :mad:

[lime]

i cannot believe there were people voting for the AFD, same right party which supported Hitler before WW2 :mad:

I wouldn't be too surprised Nicky...even this small forum has had Holocaust denier's...the far right is really gaining momentom...and of course UKIP is celebrating their win..


On a side note watching AFD celebrating....I thought I was watching Schinders List ...but in colour

[AProducer'sWetDream]

And what might that "larger force" be?

I think it's mostly anxiety about the pace of social (immigration, civil rights) and economic (automisation, 'gig economy') change. The far right campaigns on the former, scapegoating immigrants and other minorities, while the left focuses on the latter, blaming the bankers and the elite.

[Withano]

If theres anything that the last three years of politics shows you, its that fear sells.

Convince the country that they have an enemy, and let their paranoia see you to a place of power. Tides turning though. People are learning from the mistakes of USA and Britain.

[Northern Monkey]

If theres anything that the last three years of politics shows you, its that fear sells.

Convince the country that they have an enemy, and let their paranoia see you to a place of power. Tides turning though. People are learning from the mistakes of USA and Britain.

Mainland Europe and especially Germany,Belgium and Sweden don’t need telling there’s an enemy.They’re seeing it first hand for themselves.Stabbing,rapes,arson,terrorism etc etc is happening way too much over there.You can understand how the far right will easily grow over there.Merkel has given them a bigger platform by irresponsibily flooding her own country with over a million migrants many of them unvetted.

[Withano]

Mainland Europe and especially Germany,Belgium and Sweden don’t need telling there’s an enemy.They’re seeing it first hand for themselves.Stabbing,rapes,arson,terrorism etc etc is happening way too much over there.You can understand how the far right will easily grow over there.Merkel has given them a bigger platform by irresponsibily flooding her own country with over a million migrants many of them unvetted.

That doesn't take away from the fact that the AfD exploited this for their advantage. They took their fear and encouraged their imagination. They would have got a much larger proportion of the vote had the recent political mistakes of the West not happen imo. I truly believe people are getting savvy to that sort of manipulation from politicians and media outlets.

[DemolitionRed]

I think it's mostly anxiety about the pace of social (immigration, civil rights) and economic (automisation, 'gig economy') change. The far right campaigns on the former, scapegoating immigrants and other minorities, while the left focuses on the latter, blaming the bankers and the elite.

I'd say the Left blame the organ grinder, not the monkey.
Of course the left have concerns about mass immigration but the left have a tendency to look at the bigger picture. How did this happen? where did this start? and how can we stop it continuing? They believe the government should be answerable to what we are seeing now

I agree with you about scapegoating. Some people, and that includes some on here, can't see beyond the immigrants. For the Right, the only people answerable for mass immigration is the immigrants themselves. They have no interest in cause and effect.

Notice how right wing media go all out to protect the government from blame by agitating the masses to blame the immigrants. I'm not sure how some of us can see that whilst others are happy to be deceived and manipulated.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Are people from "third world" countries, as you put it, not entitled to a better life?

yes, in your house so can you move in with a pal?

[AProducer'sWetDream]

I'd say the Left blame the organ grinder, not the monkey.
Of course the left have concerns about mass immigration but the left have a tendency to look at the bigger picture. How did this happen? where did this start? and how can we stop it continuing? They believe the government should be answerable to what we are

I mostly agree with this, though I would say that some on the left (I include myself in the left) have a tendancy to somewhat villanise the rich in a way that allienates some voters who consider themselves to be in the centre.

Many more people would support increasing taxes on the very wealthy, for example, if we made a pragmatic case about why it would be good for the economy to redistribute wealth to those who would spend it rather than those who hide it in an offshore bank account. Rather than an emotional case i.e. those awful bankers don't deserve to earn that much money!

[Oliver_W]

i cannot believe there were people voting for the AFD, same right party which supported Hitler before WW2 :mad:
So Hitler was supported by a party founded in 2013?

lol k

I think it's mostly anxiety about the pace of social (immigration, civil rights) and economic (automisation, 'gig economy') change. The far right campaigns on the former, scapegoating immigrants and other minorities, while the left focuses on the latter, blaming the bankers and the elite.
Those concerns are perfectly valid, and it's just a shame it's only the "far right" who actually addresses them.

[Brillopad]

Are people from "third world" countries, as you put it, not entitled to a better life?

Not at our expense. Many of our own are entitled to a better life but come a poor second to those arriving on our shores. It's all politics.

[AProducer'sWetDream]

Those concerns are perfectly valid, and it's just a shame it's only the "far right" who actually addresses them.

I agree that those concerns are valid. I think we on the left are far too scared to address people's fears on issues like immigration. One of the left's biggest faulures over recent in my opinion was not defending the principle of free movement.

However, I disagree that the right wing are addressing people's economic anxieties. They actually make them worse, IMO. Instead they simply scapegoat the Polish builder or the Mexican cleaner for "taking British /American jobs".

[Withano]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fa/Bundestagswahl_2017_Erststimmenergebnisse.svg/400px-Bundestagswahl_2017_Erststimmenergebnisse.svg.png

I find it interesting that all of their votes came from the East there (in blue). is there a reason for that?

If I'm not mistaken, the system is quite similar to ours and Merkel (as the clear winner) needs to team up with others to get 50%, but the party that came in 2nd (SPD) aren't interested

So Merkel (centre-right) will likely form a coalition with FDP (centre) and Green (centre left), which seems kinda messy

[Brillopad]

I wouldn't be too surprised Nicky...even this small forum has had Holocaust denier's...the far right is really gaining momentom...and of course UKIP is celebrating their win..


On a side note watching AFD celebrating....I thought I was watching Schinders List ...but in colour

Way to go use criminal genocide to describe people who simply want control of their borders. Emotive low act to use such a terrible atrocity to attack differing opinions on a website. :rolleyes:

[user104658]

Way to go use criminal genocide to describe people who simply want control of their borders. Emotive low act to use such a terrible atrocity to attack differing opinions on a website. :rolleyes:

AfD have Nazi links and ideologies, genuine ones, I'm not sure if you actually weren't aware of that or are just pretending not to be. So which is it today, Brillo - uninformed, or disingenuous?

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fa/Bundestagswahl_2017_Erststimmenergebnisse.svg/400px-Bundestagswahl_2017_Erststimmenergebnisse.svg.png

I find it interesting that all of their votes came from the East there (in blue). is there a reason for that?

If I'm not mistaken, the system is quite similar to ours and Merkel (as the clear winner) needs to team up with others to get 50%, but the party that came in 2nd (SPD) aren't interested

So Merkel (centre-right) will likely form a coalition with FDP (centre) and Green (centre left), which seems kinda messy

I think the blue goes well with the black but the red is too harsh, in my eyes to work?

[lime]

Way to go use criminal genocide to describe people who simply want control of their borders. Emotive low act to use such a terrible atrocity to attack differing opinions on a website. :rolleyes:

I'm hoping you are naive brillo..Do you just support AFD because some of their manifesto is concerned about migration which is a reasonble concern...that's fine...but have you read their whole manisfesto and seen the fllyers they have circulated......it's not me that's runnig an emotive campaign....that's the far right AFD

[DemolitionRed]

I mostly agree with this, though I would say that some on the left (I include myself in the left) have a tendancy to somewhat villanise the rich in a way that allienates some voters who consider themselves to be in the centre.

Many more people would support increasing taxes on the very wealthy, for example, if we made a pragmatic case about why it would be good for the economy to redistribute wealth to those who would spend it rather than those who hide it in an offshore bank account. Rather than an emotional case i.e. those awful bankers don't deserve to earn that much money!

I'm with you all the way on this.

Another problem and I mention this because further on you mention peoples economic anxieties relating to immigration. In London and its now starting to move outside London to cities like Bristol and Bath, very wealthy foreigners are snapping up properties. When I worked as an estate agent, it wasn't uncommon for someone in China, Saudi or Russia to purchase a multi £million property in Mayfair or an entire block of new build flats in Richmond without so much as seeing the property. Many of these house purchases have never stepped foot on our shores. What this inevitably does is push the price of housing up to unaffordable levels, making it less and less affordable for those who are genuinely seeking homes to live in. It was bad when I worked in the property market but I've been assured its now out of control. Streets in London that not long ago were affordable to the 10 percent are now mostly owned by foreign investors. People need to understand the domino effect this is having on the property market.

I'm not so much worried about the immigrants who are here but I'm very concerned about the wealthy foreigners using so much of our housing stock for investment purposes.

[Tom4784]

Fear and ignorance will always give rise to extremist parties.

[Nicky91]

I think the blue goes well with the black but the red is too harsh, in my eyes to work?

it's about politics not colours :smug:

[Brillopad]

Fear and ignorance will always give rise to extremist parties.

Like the far-left.

[Niamh.]

I think it's possibly a reflection of their frustration more than anything, ukip was the same sort of thing.

whatever the reason for it, those who voted for those racists are the ones who put them there

[Crimson Dynamo]

for as long as i genuinely can remember people have been banging on about the rise of the right but as usual its just a fad and nowt happens

[arista]

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/24/germany-elections-afd-europe-immigration-merkel-radical-right

Chose this link to open a discussion on the results of the German elections.


Yes NAZI 13%
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[bots]

That's us had the elections in France and now Germany. In both cases, 18 months ago they were predicting the right wing would win. It hasn't happened. A rise in support means nothing unless it brings real power with it. People know this, and therefore feel comfortable registering a protest vote in the knowledge that it won't really change anything. People try and make news out of it, but it isn't really news at all.

[Tom4784]

Like the far-left.

What does the mythical far left have to do with the rise of a racist, homophobic and sexist extremist party?

[jaxie]

whatever the reason for it, those who voted for those racists are the ones who put them there

I wasn't saying they didn't put them there. :shrug:

[Brillopad]

What does the mythical far left have to do with the rise of a racist, homophobic and sexist extremist party?

Mythical far-left. :joker: Proof how in denial you are.

[Tom4784]

Mythical far-left. :joker: Proof how in denial you are.

You didn't answer my question.

[Brillopad]

You didn't answer my question.

There's only one racist, sexist and homophobic group on the rise that I can think of.

[Tom4784]

There's only one racist, sexist and homophobic group on the rise that I can think of.

Not what I asked.

What does the mythical far left have to do with the rise of a racist, homophobic and sexist extremist party?