Fantasy Economics. A must watch

[DemolitionRed]

The critical mass of this country need to watch and understand what is being said in this video. We need people to wake up and join the dots if we are going to stop this nonsense once and for all. We need to start listening to the economic pioneers who are asking this government and must continue to ask any government that follow them (including Labour because even Labour, to some extent spout this nonsense) some very pertinent questions.

MB0bkytOdNQ

[Oliver_W]

I prefer reading this sort of thing to hearing it, is there a transcript, or a blog saying the same thing, or a tl;dr?

[user104658]

I prefer reading this sort of thing to hearing it, is there a transcript, or a blog saying the same thing, or a tl;dr?

It's only 6 minutes long! You millennials :fist:

[Crimson Dynamo]

sorry is that milliband?


:laugh2:

you cannot be serious?

[user104658]

sorry is that milliband?


:laugh2:

you cannot be serious?

I'm assuming you didn't click it LT; the thumbnail happens to be Milliband, but he's simply listed as an example of politicians spouting Neoliberal rhetoric ALONGSIDE Thatcher, May et al.

It's quite a party-neutral video; it points out that they're all doing it (Labour, LibDem, Tories).

Again though guys... it's a 6 minute long video! I get not eanting to watch an hour long YouTube documentary when they're posted on here, but surely you can watch a 6 min clip before passing comment :umm2:.

[DemolitionRed]

I prefer reading this sort of thing to hearing it, is there a transcript, or a blog saying the same thing, or a tl;dr?

Respected economist Richard Mathew writes blogs which I follow. He put up the video I linked to here. Here are two of his blogs worth reading and that more or less says the same thing as the video.

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/?s=magic+money+tree
http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017/10/16/can-we-afford-the-nhs/

[user104658]

My comment is simply... it's a good video DR, tries valiantly to explain the absurd situation that is Neoliberal politics in a simple way, however... I can absolutely guarantee that most people who watch this still won't "get it" (or even try to get it).

[DemolitionRed]

My comment is simply... it's a good video DR, tries valiantly to explain the absurd situation that is Neoliberal politics in a simple way, however... I can absolutely guarantee that most people who watch this still won't "get it" (or even try to get it).

Glad you enjoyed it TS.
Unfortunately most won't watch it which is a shame because we clearly have extreme levels of corruption going on at the top. If this video can spark the interest of one person, then it was worth putting up on here.

I didn't get it for years. It was only an open interest in economics that had me question fiscal spending or the lack of it. Geez, I didn't even have the understanding of money or know the difference between money and currency and I certainly didn't know how it worked in an economy. I believed austerity was a very real problem!!

Its frightening knowing how we are being influenced by those at the top and mass media. It goes to show that big money has great influence; but its more frightening knowing that most people aren't aware and don't want to be aware.

[Oliver_W]

Respected economist Richard Mathew writes blogs which I follow. He put up the video I linked to here. Here are two of his blogs worth reading and that more or less says the same thing as the video.

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/?s=magic+money+tree
http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017/10/16/can-we-afford-the-nhs/

Thanks for the links, at the very least they make an interesting read. One of the arguments he makes for NHS spending (the staff will put the money they receive into the economy) is similar to one I make against high taxes - people have money in their pockets, they spend it, so money is raised through VAT and business taxes.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yes I am amazed that people who make a lot of money via business turn out to be selfish, egotistical, semi psychopathic greedy people hating scumbags

id have thought they would be nice people?

The video? - a poorly cut and packaged mess to further the agenda of its maker

this is why videos like this are dangerous, just like the idiots who watch the BLM videos and think the video is judge and jury case closed

:idc:

[bots]

My comment is simply... it's a good video DR, tries valiantly to explain the absurd situation that is Neoliberal politics in a simple way, however... I can absolutely guarantee that most people who watch this still won't "get it" (or even try to get it).

or more likely, just don't agree with it

[user104658]

Thanks for the links, at the very least they make an interesting read. One of the arguments he makes for NHS spending (the staff will put the money they receive into the economy) is similar to one I make against high taxes - people have money in their pockets, they spend it, so money is raised through VAT and business taxes.

It's also why it's an utterly stupid "austerity policy" to cut things like Tax Credits for families, or disability benefits. Every last penny of that money gets SPENT... it's a cash injection straight into the active economy. Working families and the disabled aren't sitting on cash stockpiles or making offshore investments... they are circulating that money within the country, which increases profits, and creates jobs. These are the LAST sorts of cuts that should ever be made. In fact, in terms of a thriving economy - for all retail or service providing industries - the more money that is burning a hole in the pockets of people who will actually spend it, the better. This is one of the fundamental flaws of austerity-thinking.

[user104658]

or more likely, just don't agree with it

Some will take the time to understand it and disagree with it, sure. Some will take the time to understand it and agree with it.

Most simply won't bother and will continue to parrot other people's mantras and soundbites, or will base their opinion on what they understand of government debt / spending based on equating it to what they understand of personal debt / spending (when they are not actually comparable).

[Crimson Dynamo]

and who do economists answer to?

oh wait no one

If they had thousands of shareholders and thousands of employees i think what they spout my be considerably different...

[user104658]

and who do economists answer to?

oh wait no one

If they had thousands of shareholders and thousands of employees i think what they spout my be considerably different...

:pat: LT believing that large companies answer to their employees :joker:. The blissful ignorance of self-employment, I guess?

[Crimson Dynamo]

:pat: LT believing that large companies answer to their employees :joker:. The blissful ignorance of self-employment, I guess?

not answer to them but have to recruit them and if the company is not attractive they wont grow

[user104658]

not answer to them but have to recruit them and if the company is not attractive they wont growAt the upper levels maybe but those are the people that neoliberal economics are designed to best serve. At entry and middle management level, they will have no problem with recruitment, because there are abundant people desperately seeking employment - both untrained / unskilled and with degrees or management experience. Under hard neoliberal capitalism, up until the upper management level, staff is a disposable resource, simple as that.

[Crimson Dynamo]

At the upper levels maybe but those are the people that neoliberal economics are designed to best serve. At entry and middle management level, they will have no problem with recruitment, because there are abundant people desperately seeking employment - both untrained / unskilled and with degrees or management experience. Under hard neoliberal capitalism, up until the upper management level, staff is a disposable resource, simple as that.

Are you suggesting hard neoliberal capitalism at your very bookies?:shocked:

not the fruit machines again?

let them live

[user104658]

Are you suggesting hard neoliberal capitalism at your very bookies?:shocked:

not the fruit machines again?

let them liveI'm suggesting that the upper management of any large company with 10k+ employees benefits greatly from neoliberal politics, yes.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I'm suggesting that the upper management of any large company with 10k+ employees benefits greatly from neoliberal politics, yes.

Then hopefully this will inspire young people to stick in at school and aim to be successful so that they can propsper

[user104658]

Then hopefully this will inspire young people to stick in at school and aim to be successful so that they can propsper[insert that Marcia Brady meme that you overuse here]

[The Slim Reaper]

https://media1.tenor.com/images/f6e096651721c03a6ec0b47056b51078/tenor.gif?itemid=4733123

I'd prefer liberal Neo politics, where instead of trying to kill bad guys, he would fly around helping old ladies across the road and protesting against the redistribution of wealth to the top 1%

[DemolitionRed]

or more likely, just don't agree with it

Its fine to disagree but if you are going to disagree, at least have enough understanding or courage to talk about why.

[DemolitionRed]

Thanks for the links, at the very least they make an interesting read. One of the arguments he makes for NHS spending (the staff will put the money they receive into the economy) is similar to one I make against high taxes - people have money in their pockets, they spend it, so money is raised through VAT and business taxes.

TS has mainly answered this.

The problem with taxes is, the higher earners are putting their money into tax havens. Every pound of tax money that gets wheedled away in offshore accounts (tax avoidance) is a pound down in our economy. Tax avoidance in this country is massive and no amount of the small earners tax contributions and spending can cover what's being lost. What we are presently doing is subsidizing what the tax avoiders aren't paying. Too little tax and we have to print more money to ward off deflation. Higher taxes can cause inflation. Its a very fine balancing act.

Your right, tax balances our economy, without tax they couldn't print money because its an intrinsic part of how our economy works.

[Oliver_W]

..
If a flat tax rate was in place, high earners would have less reason to avoid tax.

[DemolitionRed]

If a flat tax rate was in place, high earners would have less reason to avoid tax.

People who can legally avoid paying tax will always be a problem, regardless. Romania has flat rate tax and its probably one of the biggest tax abusers in Europe.

[Oliver_W]

Romania has flat rate tax and its probably one of the biggest tax abusers in Europe.

And Texas has no income tax at all, and they have a budget surplus.

[Kizzy]

To summerise thick as pig**** ignorant people who believe these soundbites are the ones who feed on headlines such as 'they will spend all the money'... 'benefit scroungers earn more than you' vote out and we can spent £350 million on the NHS' While the rest of us are like....Aw come on!!!! Are you really swallowing this baloney?!

[DemolitionRed]

And Texas has no income tax at all, and they have a budget surplus.

Indeed but that isn't country wide. We could devolve tax powers to certain parts of the UK but I think we could only do that with land taxes.

[Oliver_W]

To summerise thick as pig**** ignorant people who believe these soundbites are the ones who feed on headlines such as 'they will spend all the money'... 'benefit scroungers earn more than you' vote out and we can spent £350 million on the NHS' While the rest of us are like....Aw come on!!!! Are you really swallowing this baloney?!

Who are you even addressing, I don't think anyone said anything like that in this thread.

[Kizzy]

Who are you even addressing, I don't think anyone said anything like that in this thread.

I'm addressing the nation.

[Brillopad]

Then hopefully this will inspire young people to stick in at school and aim to be successful so that they can propsper

So true! Unfortunately it’s not cool enough or too much like hard work for those who want it NOW. Short-term thinking for short-term gain. Unfortunately many of the short-term thinkers then envy the long-term thinkers for their more astute thinking and want to do them down.

[Brillopad]

I'm addressing the nation.

What are you - a priminister in waiting. :hehe:

[Brillopad]

Its fine to disagree but if you are going to disagree, at least have enough understanding or courage to talk about why.

There’s only one kind of understanding in your book.

[Kizzy]

What are you - a priminister in waiting. :hehe:

No, just a concerned citizen.

[DemolitionRed]

There’s only one kind of understanding in your book.

My understanding is to be open minded with people who have taken their time to learn a subject and not tolerate one trick ponies who don't understand how to be diplomatic, have little understanding of their subject matter and want to shout about it anyway.

Only this morning I fully took on board what Jet said in another thread. His words, put across in an eloquent and thoughtful way, had me re-think my thoughts about Irelands political parties.
There have been numerous occasions when both NorthernMonkey and Bitontheslide have heavily debated things I didn't initially agree with but was later swayed round to their way of thinking.

Have you got any examples of when you had your views on a subject changed?

[Kizzy]

There’s only one kind of understanding in your book.

And you wonder why people accuse you of being ignorant.

[Brillopad]

And you wonder why people accuse you of being ignorant.

Ignorant people who call others ignorant don’t count.

[Kizzy]

I haven't misread this snipe.