View Full Version : USA: Uber suspends self drive after a Car has run over a woman and killed her
arista
19-03-2018, 06:25 PM
Ref: BBCnewsHD and SkyNewsHD.
had to happen.....
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/mar/19/uber-self-driving-car-kills-woman-arizona-tempe
she later died in hospital.
http://myfox8.com/2018/03/19/woman-hit-killed-by-self-driving-uber/
Northern Monkey
19-03-2018, 06:45 PM
That’s the thing about self drive cars.The testing phase is dangerous.How many people have to die before its perfected.
Crimson Dynamo
19-03-2018, 06:45 PM
Not Ant testing uber cars as a sideline?
Kizzy
19-03-2018, 06:46 PM
AI bye bye
Northern Monkey
19-03-2018, 06:47 PM
Not Ant testing uber cars as a sideline?
Oh no you di-ant :laugh2:
Northern Monkey
19-03-2018, 06:54 PM
AI bye bye
AI is scary or Atleast will be.
Kizzy
19-03-2018, 06:56 PM
AI is scary or Atleast will be.
Doesn't look like it's even nearly a thing... all the scaremongering at lorry drivers that in 5yrs they'll have to retrain or be out of a job?.... no chance!
Brillopad
19-03-2018, 06:59 PM
Not Ant testing uber cars as a sideline?
:hehe:
Brillopad
19-03-2018, 07:01 PM
Doesn't look like it's even nearly a thing... all the scaremongering at lorry drivers that in 5yrs they'll have to retrain or be out of a job?.... no chance!
Thank Christ for that. Driverless cars - men self-identifying as women - one big car-crash after another!
Who will be charged for this?
Kizzy
19-03-2018, 09:44 PM
Who will be charged for this?
Actually that a fair point can it be seen as blameless?...
michael21
19-03-2018, 10:08 PM
Who will be charged for this?
Michael knight no less
user104658
19-03-2018, 10:25 PM
Thank Christ for that. Driverless cars - men self-identifying as women - one big car-crash after another!
Thank women for that. Driverless Christ - men self-identifying as driverless cars - one big car crash after another!
driverless cars are here to stay, they fact that uber messed up in trials is no particular surprise to me, but lots of other manufacturers are actively testing, and they will become common place in the near future
Marsh.
19-03-2018, 11:01 PM
Actually that a fair point can it be seen as blameless?...
Surely the bosses of Uber will be held accountable?
There actually was a person behind the wheel monitoring the car. If the woman steps out suddenly into traffic then are they really at fault?
thesheriff443
19-03-2018, 11:19 PM
Not Ant testing uber cars as a sideline?
Bit of a sick joke considering a woman has lost her life.
Kizzy
19-03-2018, 11:23 PM
There actually was a person behind the wheel monitoring the car. If the woman steps out suddenly into traffic then are they really at fault?
Not read anything about the incident then?
Police identified the victim as 49-year-old Elaine Herzberg and said she was walking outside of the crosswalk with a bicycle when she was hit at around 10pm
'The self-driving technology is supposed to detect pedestrians, cyclists and others and prevent crashes.'
'John M Simpson, privacy and technology project director with Consumer Watchdog, said the collision highlighted the need for tighter regulations of the nascent technology.'
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/mar/19/uber-self-driving-car-kills-woman-arizona-tempe
Not read anything about the incident then?
Police identified the victim as 49-year-old Elaine Herzberg and said she was walking outside of the crosswalk with a bicycle when she was hit at around 10pm
'The self-driving technology is supposed to detect pedestrians, cyclists and others and prevent crashes.'
'John M Simpson, privacy and technology project director with Consumer Watchdog, said the collision highlighted the need for tighter regulations of the nascent technology.'
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/mar/19/uber-self-driving-car-kills-woman-arizona-tempe
Er yes I have hence why I pointed out that there was a human operative behind the wheel. Thought you would benefit from knowing that as you were confused about who should be considered responsible. From the BBC article:
Police said the accident happened Sunday night while the car was in autonomous mode. A human monitor was also behind the wheel.
Police said the woman, Elaine Herzberg, had not been using a pedestrian crossing.
Kizzy
19-03-2018, 11:50 PM
Er yes I have hence why I pointed out that there was a human operative behind the wheel. Thought you would benefit from knowing that as you were confused about who should be considered responsible. From the BBC article:
So... It was in driverless mode at the time wasn't it? There was still nobody stepping out suddenly.
Police said the woman, Elaine Herzberg, had not been using a pedestrian crossing.
The self-driving technology is supposed to detect pedestrians, cyclists
Marsh.
20-03-2018, 12:41 AM
If there was someone behind the wheel for the sake of these "tests" then surely they are there to act to prevent accidents so they are at fault?
Like a driving instructor having a break pedal in case of emergency?
I liked the original idea of having magnets/rails in the road that the cars followed... I don't like autonomous... I think that it's a security risk, especially if those systems run on a network and are hacked into remotely somehow... I like the rail system because at least, a networked/AI-ish system is only one of the variables... a mixed system sounds nice (but the infrastructure would probably be $$$$$$)
Marsh.
20-03-2018, 01:59 AM
I liked the original idea of having magnets/rails in the road that the cars followed...
I love trains. :laugh:
user104658
20-03-2018, 09:27 AM
If there was someone behind the wheel for the sake of these "tests" then surely they are there to act to prevent accidents so they are at fault?
Like a driving instructor having a break pedal in case of emergency?Well... The legal issue would still be questionable there: because if you hit someone on a driving lesson (even on your very first lesson) it's the driver who is legally responsible, not the instructor.
A lot of learner drivers believe that they aren't legally responsible for what happens when they're behind the wheel if they don't have a full licence... But that's not the case.
Marsh.
20-03-2018, 11:51 AM
Well... The legal issue would still be questionable there: because if you hit someone on a driving lesson (even on your very first lesson) it's the driver who is legally responsible, not the instructor.
A lot of learner drivers believe that they aren't legally responsible for what happens when they're behind the wheel if they don't have a full licence... But that's not the case.
Yes but we're talking about a machine so the company bears the responsibility, surely?
My comment about an instructors pedal was more of a question tbh. Do the cars not gave safety measures like that to prevent accidents like this?
Authorities in Arizona have released dramatic dash cam footage showing the moments leading up to a self-driving Uber car's fatal collision with a pedestrian.
The video released by Tempe police on Wednesday shows the car driving 38ph in a 45-mph zone along a relatively empty roadway last Sunday night.
A woman walking while rolling her bicycle suddenly appears in the headlights, with the footage cutting out a split second before impact.
The footage is here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5529453/Video-shows-moment-pedestrian-killed-self-driving-Uber-car.html#ixzz5AT6Y83EX
As I suggested might have been the case earlier in the thread, it appears that there is little that could have been done to prevent the accident as the woman does only appear very suddenly with no time to brake
Kazanne
22-03-2018, 09:43 AM
According to his she walked out of darkness infront of this car,so maybe both at fault.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/footage-shows-woman-stepped-in-front-of-uber-car/ar-BBKxM3i?li=AAmiR2Z&ocid=spartanntp
The footage is here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5529453/Video-shows-moment-pedestrian-killed-self-driving-Uber-car.html#ixzz5AT6Y83EX
As I suggested might have been the case earlier in the thread, it appears that there is little that could have been done to prevent the accident as the woman does only appear very suddenly with no time to brake
...wow...sadly I doubt that could have been avoided at all..self drive or no self drive, with wearing black in the dark as well../...tragic..:sad:..
Kizzy
22-03-2018, 04:22 PM
It looks dark, but then driving at night your eyes can adjust and you can detect movement in your peripheral vision... it's hazard perception isn't it? At night you are more aware of this as there are less distractions, It also helps if you look where you are going.
Crimson Dynamo
22-03-2018, 04:43 PM
is the car electric?
user104658
22-03-2018, 04:52 PM
Looking at the video, if she walked into the road out of nowhere then there's no way anyone could have stopped, robot or not. However I don't know much about how far these cars sensors extend. Do they only "see" the road around them? Because if so then what Kizzy says is right... a human driver may well have been "aware" of her at the side of the road or looking like she might go onto it. Also humans can pick up on erratic behaviour and adjust accordingly... an AI can't possibly know if someone is behaving "weirdly" or unpredictably.
But yeah... also, she does just walk out right in front of it. She can't possibly have looked / must have been distracted. Whether or not the car is electric is relevant too because they're so quiet... and people have grown up hearing cars coming as well as seeing them, so if all is quiet people assume they can walk out without looking properly.
Crimson Dynamo
22-03-2018, 04:53 PM
Looking at the video, if she walked into the road out of nowhere then there's no way anyone could have stopped, robot or not. However I don't know much about how far these cars sensors extend. Do they only "see" the road around them? Because if so then what Kizzy says is right... a human driver may well have been "aware" of her at the side of the road or looking like she might go onto it. Also humans can pick up on erratic behaviour and adjust accordingly... an AI can't possibly know if someone is behaving "weirdly" or unpredictably.
But yeah... also, she does just walk out right in front of it. She can't possibly have looked / must have been distracted. Whether or not the car is electric is relevant too because they're so quiet... and people have grown up hearing cars coming as well as seeing them, so if all is quiet people assume they can walk out without looking properly.
thats what i mean she was relatively old so would be relying on sound to warn her
Vasquez had two felony convictions when she was hired by Uber for its self-driving car trials in the Phoenix, Arizona, area.
Her January 2001 conviction for attempted armed robbery led to a five-year sentence of which she served more than four years, being freed in November 2004.
Vasquez attempted to rob a Blockbuster video store with an imitation firearm.
At the same time, Vasquez was convicted of unsworn falsification committed in 1999, meaning she made a false statement to a public officials, and received a concurrent one year sentence.
At the time she was known as Rafael and identified as male. It is not known when she transitioned to female.
All the components of a Serious Debates thread in this story :ninja2:
Crimson Dynamo
22-03-2018, 05:10 PM
All the components of a Serious Debates thread in this story :ninja2:
" It is not known when she transitioned to female. "
they must have seen the video as well...
Kizzy
22-03-2018, 10:32 PM
'The footage “strongly suggests a failure by Uber’s automated driving system and a lack of due care by Uber’s driver”, Bryant Walker Smith, a University of South Carolina law school professor and autonomous vehicle expert, said in an email. He noted that the victim is visible about two seconds before the collision, saying: “This is similar to the average reaction time for a driver. That means an alert driver may have at least attempted to swerve or brake.”
The car was traveling at 38 miles per hour at 10pm on Sunday, according to the Tempe police chief, Sylvia Moir, who told a reporter that she thought the video showed Uber was not at fault. Experts who reviewed the footage, however, said the opposite appeared to be true.
“I really don’t understand why Lidar didn’t pick this up,” said Ryan Calo, a University of Washington law professor and self-driving expert. “This video does not absolve Uber.”
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/mar/22/self-driving-car-uber-death-woman-failure-fatal-crash-arizona
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