'if she's a b*tch'

[Underscore]

Big Brother's Cameron Cole filmed in foul mouthed anti-feminist rant before show where he claims you can HIT woman 'if she's a b*tch'

Video in the article
https://www.ok.co.uk/celebrity-news/1469521/cameron-big-brother-cole-youtube-antifeminist-rant-feminism-hit-women-ellis-hillon-removed

:omgno:

[Underscore]

"If a man hits a woman after she's been a b***h, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I really don't."

:omgno:

[montblanc]

are we surprised

[montblanc]

a bit sad because i was warming to him :(

[Underscore]

are we surprised

I was beginning to warm to him but now I'm like this

https://i.imgur.com/1YItqtZ.gif

[MB.]

https://prettyuglylittleliar.net/uploads/monthly_2018_02/IJTgN6v.thumb.gif.d2a3447a429d6726c5f9b8204a70d7d5 .gif

[RileyH]

"If a woman is being an a***hole and hitting and punching a man just because she thinks he's not going to hit her back... if you want equality you've got to expect he is going to come and clout her."

tea :idc:

[JoshBB]

oop :laugh2:

Big Brother better not remove him over this tho

[armand.kay]

Just as I was warming to him. Anyways, big brother do your "after our research" thang
https://i.imgur.com/1YItqtZ.gif

[Elliot]

He said if she hits him first, which like is pretty fair

I’m not for hitting anyone and I hate getting physical but the minute you lose your cool and do something like that it’s fair game

It’s a bit of a **** double standard no?

[montblanc]

tea :idc:

men are usually physically stronger than women though so

[montblanc]

i’m not defending women abusing men though but there’s a reason why it’s a bit of a double standard

[Underscore]

He said if she hits him first, which like is pretty fair

I’m not for hitting anyone and I hate getting physical but the minute you lose your cool and do something like that it’s fair game

It’s a bit of a **** double standard no?

The bit where he says it's fine for men to hit women if they're being a bitch tho is off :shrug:

[Mokka]

Called it... a sexually repressed straight conservative guy to a T

Here for his fall from grace

[RileyH]

men are usually physically stronger than women though so

But if a woman is hitting a man then surely he has every right to do the same?

[Elliot]

i’m not defending women abusing men though but there’s a reason why it’s a bit of a double standard

Yeah thats fine it’s just women hitting men happens so much and is usually seen as almost laughable by male friends even female friends. It’s also something I’ve seen and dealt with irl so maybe I’m a bit biased

[Underscore]

getting ready for an ejection so our tomasz is guaranteed to stay :devil:

[arista]

No wonder he is staying back from the women


His Dark Side

[MB.]

The bit where he says it's fine for men to hit women if they're being a bitch tho is off :shrug:

The video, which is part of a series called "If you're easily offended then ****** off!", is a 16 minute rant about how feminism is a "disastrous ideology".

Bit off as well, that bit

[montblanc]

Yeah thats fine it’s just women hitting men happens so much and is usually seen as almost laughable by male friends even female friends. It’s also something I’ve seen and dealt with irl so maybe I’m a bit biased

i agree that that is a problem too :(

[Underscore]

me calling up the celebrity big brother votelines for 20 mins straight on friday to evict cameron :devil:

https://media1.tenor.com/images/150a384449082125a8bffbd805b9b856/tenor.gif?itemid=5499082

[montblanc]

i still hope they don’t eject him though because FAR worse has been said IN the house by other housemates throughout the years

[Elliot]

Also I do really like Cameron as a person. He reminds me of me a lot since like I have mild Aspergers and I sometimes have the same social awkwardness as him so it’s kinda nice to see since he seems very pure of heart. I hope he doesn’t actually think of hitting women tho lol

[Underscore]

kinda nice to see since he seems very pure of heart

the evidence in video proves otherwise

[RileyH]

Am I the only one who doesn't think he said anything that bad? :skull:

[Underscore]

Am I the only one who doesn't think he said anything that bad? :skull:

It seems you being outnumbered on your opinions is becoming a pattern Mr RileyH

BB15: Helen

[RileyH]

It seems you being outnumbered on your opinions is becoming a pattern Mr RileyH

BB15: Helen

What's Helen got to do with it :skull:

[Jack_]

:rolleyes:

@ the fact this has been "uncovered"

[Underscore]

What's Helen got to do with it :skull:

Cameron is nasty and Helen is nasty

[montblanc]

Am I the only one who doesn't think he said anything that bad? :skull:

i’m sure a big number of people in the world agree with you

[montblanc]

but i’m not one of them!

[RileyH]

i’m sure a big number of people in the world agree with you

Good :D

[Underscore]

but i’m not one of them!

https://media.giphy.com/media/2ARbQOlfTK2DC/giphy.gif

[Elliot]

Cameron is nasty and Helen is nasty

Helen is an entirely different BEAST

Cameron has a few obtuse opinions. Nothing a bit of indoctrination can’t fix!

[GoldHeart]

He said if she hits him first, which like is pretty fair

I’m not for hitting anyone and I hate getting physical but the minute you lose your cool and do something like that it’s fair game

It’s a bit of a **** double standard no?

:clap1:

I knew it was taken out of context , look at the size of Cameron I bet he'd easily get bullied so if he stands up for himself then that's good within reason of course :nono:.

[caprimint]

He said if she hits him first, which like is pretty fair

I’m not for hitting anyone and I hate getting physical but the minute you lose your cool and do something like that it’s fair game

It’s a bit of a **** double standard no?
Agreed with this. Nobody (regardless of gender) should be hitting anyone first if they don't want to get hit back. It's logic. :shrug:

[Cal.]

I’m gonna find dirt on everyone besides Ana so she wins by default

[montblanc]

I’m gonna find dirt on everyone besides Ana so she wins by default

:devil:

[Pro Sniper]

This lad is a joke..but what he said here(in its full context) is perfectly reasonable. He's saying it's acceptable for a man to hit a woman if it's retaliation. You can be damn sure if any women hits me, I won't hesitate in striking back. Even if it's just a pimp slap to knock her back into line.

[James]

I watched a couple of his videos the other day. A quite entertaining FIFA stream

LvLDQl7tOoE

and the Feminism one. It's quite funny at the start, but I didn't watch all of it.

J5toNrjlrq4

https://www.youtube.com/user/MrFifaCam/featured?disable_polymer=1

[AProducer'sWetDream]

Meh I don't disagree tbh. I might not have used the same words :laugh: but I don't disagree that women shouldn't be immune from retaliation if they hit someone.

It's so pathetic though that people will trawl housemates' social media accounts just to try and dig something up. You can't have a house full of normal people and also have everyone be squeaky clean and having never said anything controversial or offensive.

[RileyH]

I’m gonna find dirt on everyone besides Ana so she wins by default

A saviour

[Elliot]

Meh I don't disagree tbh. I might not have used the same words :laugh: but I don't disagree that women should be immune from retaliation if they hit someone.

It's so pathetic though that people will trawl housemates' social media accounts just to try and dig something up. You can't have a house full of normal people and also have everyone be squeaky clean and having never said anything controversial or offensive.

Yeah this 100%

This idea that everyone we hold up on a pillar has to be flawless and has to have a pristine track record just isn’t true. We all do stupid stuff especially when young. And this is more relative to Ellis than Cameron becuase as far as I’m aware he didn’t say anything wrong?!
Reality tv is sure getting a lot less real huh

[Shaun]

I'm mostly offended by his choice of head-gear.

[saiwong]

I think what Cameron is ranting about is what some people call 3rd wave feminism
which has tainted the original feminism ideals.

No-one, male or female should be hitting each-other, but if someone is hit they should have the right to retaliate and defend themselves.


As mentioned above...
I don't disagree that women should be immune from retaliation if they hit someone.

I agree, women can't demand equality and then play the 'weaker sex' card.

If you want equality you need to accept everything (the good and the bad). You can't pick and choose which bits of equality you like and discard the rest.

[GoldHeart]

I think what Cameron is ranting about is what some people call 3rd wave feminism
which has tainted the original feminism ideals.

No-one, male or female should be hitting each-other, but if someone is hit they should have the right to retaliate and defend themselves.


As mentioned above...
I don't disagree that women should be immune from retaliation if they hit someone.

I agree, women can't demand equality and then play the 'weaker sex' card.

If you want equality you need to accept everything (the good and the bad). You can't pick and choose which bits of equality you like and discard the rest.

This is an example where a woman uses her gender/sexuality & strength against a man and she picked the wrong person as this guy was a total psycho!!!:shocked: .


iMcegIaBLAQ

[Headie]

Idk why y'all stanned him in the first place

https://uploadir.com/u/5b73ccv1

[Elliot]

I think what Cameron is ranting about is what some people call 3rd wave feminism
which has tainted the original feminism ideals.

No-one, male or female should be hitting each-other, but if someone is hit they should have the right to retaliate and defend themselves.


As mentioned above...
I don't disagree that women should be immune from retaliation if they hit someone.

I agree, women can't demand equality and then play the 'weaker sex' card.

If you want equality you need to accept everything (the good and the bad). You can't pick and choose which bits of equality you like and discard the rest.

I agree with the last bit quite a lot
I don’t wanna get too political, but I feel like if women truly want to be accepted on equal terms to men, which is really great, then they should also bear the consequences of this, because surprise being a man in society isn’t all sunshine. I’ll be content when we see moral protest against gender roles on both ends of the spectrum, which I feel is quite lacking in the daily conversation. Right now it’s just more about women wanting powerful roles

[GoldHeart]

I agree with the last bit quite a lot
I don’t wanna get too political, but I feel like if women truly want to be accepted on equal terms to men, which is really great, then they should also bear the consequences of this, because surprise being a man in society isn’t all sunshine. I’ll be content when we see moral protest against gender roles on both ends of the spectrum, which I feel is quite lacking in the daily conversation. Right now it’s just more about women wanting powerful roles

I think Anamelia is the worst typical feminist !!! . Lewis F albeit not the most articulate had her card marked from the beginning :clap1: .

Equality should be BOTH MEN & WOMEN !!! . Not just women acting like they rule the world .

[armand.kay]

I can't believe I almost stanned a WHOLE meninist https://i.imgur.com/bKqwZNX.jpg?1

[Withano]

UGH, and there he was sitting as my profiles bb19 favourite

This is why we must never trust tories ever, even the nice ones are *****. :(

[Withano]

I’m gonna find dirt on everyone besides Ana so she wins by default

Too late, she’s being herself in the big brother highlight shows.

[Daniel.]

Still like him

[Niamh.]

I agree with the last bit quite a lot
I don’t wanna get too political, but I feel like if women truly want to be accepted on equal terms to men, which is really great, then they should also bear the consequences of this, because surprise being a man in society isn’t all sunshine. I’ll be content when we see moral protest against gender roles on both ends of the spectrum, which I feel is quite lacking in the daily conversation. Right now it’s just more about women wanting powerful roles"If women truly want to be accepted on equal terms to men" that sounds so condescending

[crashandburn]

"If women truly want to be accepted on equal terms to men" that sounds so condescending

Agreed. It's not a man's place (certainly not a little boy with no life experience) to set down the terms and conditions of equality to women. Women aren't asking your permission, boyo. Equality isn't yours to give under certain terms. It's theirs to take.

What a typical tory buffoon. All his opinions are probably just passed down the line from father to son for generations and he has no idea about the real world. I bet he's a carbon copy of his father politically and hasn't come to an original conclusion on his own about anything.

[Epic.]

'Oooh! WOMAN BEATAHH!'

Anyway I don't see why this affects him as a housemate so still looking forward to him :love:

[Elliot]

"If women truly want to be accepted on equal terms to men" that sounds so condescending

But that’s what they want??? Not more treading on egg shells :gasp: if they want it, take it. But don’t complain when you’ve bit off more than you can chew

[Jordan.]

Gross

[GoldHeart]

But that’s what they want??? Not more treading on egg shells :gasp: if they want it, take it. But don’t complain when you’ve bit off more than you can chew

If anyone hits a person then they can't expect to get away with it or think that's ok . There's alot of double standards in society.

Self defence is ok and is not the same as beating someone for the sake of it .

[Niamh.]

But that’s what they want??? Not more treading on egg shells :gasp: if they want it, take it. But don’t complain when you’ve bit off more than you can chewBit off more than you can chew by being equal? Um ok then will we just leave the boys to be in charge so we're not chewing too much :umm2:

[Greg!]

He didn't even say anything that bad. If a gal hit me id hit her back and knock ha out!

[montblanc]

"If women truly want to be accepted on equal terms to men" that sounds so condescending

it's funny because i only see men say that to justify beating women

every. single. time.

[crashandburn]

But that’s what they want??? Not more treading on egg shells :gasp: if they want it, take it. But don’t complain when you’ve bit off more than you can chew

the point is it's not his place to set down the terms of equality as if he owns it and he'll only "let" women have it if they abide by his terms. He's a little boy. He doesn't have a clue. He's just vomiting up recycled opinions from his tory family that have been fed to him all his life and he doesn't really know what he's saying.

[Niamh.]

it's funny because i only see men say that to justify beating women

every. single. time.Mmhhm

[Elliot]

Bit off more than you can chew by being equal? Um ok then will we just leave the boys to be in charge so we're not chewing too much :umm2:

If a social class wants to assume the role of power in society, great! Power isn’t all fun had by all though. It’s be pretty foolish to fill a role and not accept its responsibilities.... this would be all dandy if social advocacy aimed to eradicate these unfair responsibilities, but that end seems to be crickets.

This is literally only aimed at people who want ‘equality’ yet want to consist double standards

[GoldHeart]

it's funny because i only see men say that to justify beating women

every. single. time.

You're taking it out of context ! .

If a man gets slapped across his face 9 out of 10 times he won't even touch a woman back i hope you realise that ? . He'll shout and probably call her crazy !! but that's it , he might even just walk away .

It's as if it's the norm for a woman to hit a guy without reprecussion :facepalm: . Unless that guy is being a total thug or vile then there's no excuse to hit him .

But it works both ways :nono: , self defence is there to protect the person who's UNFAIRLY being attacked physically and that goes for both FEMALE & MALE ! .

[crashandburn]

If a social class wants to assume the role of power in society, great! Power isn’t all fun had by all though. It’s be pretty foolish to fill a role and not accept its responsibilities.... this would be all dandy if social advocacy aimed to eradicate these unfair responsibilities, but that end seems to be crickets.

This is literally only aimed at people who want ‘equality’ yet want to consist double standards

the whole point of equality is that it's not about assuming the role of power though. It's about being equal. As the name suggests.

[armand.kay]

it's funny because i only see men say that to justify beating women

every. single. time.

yup

[Elliot]

the point is it's not his place to set down the terms of equality as if he owns it and he'll only "let" women have it if they abide by his terms. He's a little boy. He doesn't have a clue. He's just vomiting up recycled opinions from his tory family that have been fed to him all his life and he doesn't really know what he's saying.

Yeah and I probably don’t agree with his other opinion on feminism..... I just hate this double standard and it’s a shame it’s only people like him that seem to be calling it out (I mean on the political spectrum since everyone associates conservatives with those who oppose social progrsssion, and thus it isn’t taken seriously)

Maybe I worded it weird, I’m just trying to be frank. I have no power in society I’m only 18 just like him. I’m only just learning about the world. One of the main things I hate about this gender discussion is the consistency of the double standards that are actually quite harmful, and this is mostly because my mom was quite absusive and we weren’t able to do anything because of this consisting double standard.

[Jack_]

'Oooh! WOMAN BEATAHH!'

Anyway I don't see why this affects him as a housemate so still looking forward to him :love:

It doesn't

[Robodog]

I think what Cameron is ranting about is what some people call 3rd wave feminism
which has tainted the original feminism ideals.

No-one, male or female should be hitting each-other, but if someone is hit they should have the right to retaliate and defend themselves.


As mentioned above...
I don't disagree that women should be immune from retaliation if they hit someone.

I agree, women can't demand equality and then play the 'weaker sex' card.

If you want equality you need to accept everything (the good and the bad). You can't pick and choose which bits of equality you like and discard the rest.

A wise post as ever, Saiwong. :wavey:

Feminism used to be about attaining equal rights and opportunities; it was also about harmony between the sexes.


Too many people nowadays want a 'have your cake and eat it' approach to equality:

Demanding gender equality - in more pleasant industries such as the media.

Not demanding gender equality - in less pleasant industries like sewage work or rubbish clearance.

Funny that.

[Niamh.]

If a social class wants to assume the role of power in society, great! Power isn’t all fun had by all though. It’s be pretty foolish to fill a role and not accept its responsibilities.... this would be all dandy if social advocacy aimed to eradicate these unfair responsibilities, but that end seems to be crickets.

This is literally only aimed at people who want ‘equality’ yet want to consist double standardsSocial class? I thought we were talking about men and women or Are you saying men and women are in different social classes? And the silly little girls couldn't handle the responsibility of being in power? I hope I've misunderstood your post

[Elliot]

the whole point of equality is that it's not about assuming the role of power though. It's about being equal. As the name suggests.

According to someone else in this thread who gets mad at semantics every time I post it is. It’s not like there’s a mass social advocacy for more women dustbin workers, or miners. The discussion is usually, profession wise anywho, about ceos, phd students, mathematical and scientific graduate fields..

[GoldHeart]

Social class? I thought we were talking about men and women or Are you saying men and women are in different social classes? And the silly little girls couldn't handle the responsibility of being in power? I hope I've misunderstood your post

Both men & women should be treated equally but sadly they're not .

People will laugh when a woman hits a guy across the face even when he's done nothing wrong :facepalm: . I doubt many guys will hit a woman back after that unless she's relentless and keeps hitting him .

And if he does hit her back after she provoked him then who's fault is that . Some people out there like to push buttons for a reaction.

Domestic violence is WRONG !! , but if it's self defence then what's wrong with that within reason of course :shrug: .

[caprimint]

Agreed. It's not a man's place (certainly not a little boy with no life experience) to set down the terms and conditions of equality to women. Women aren't asking your permission, boyo. Equality isn't yours to give under certain terms. It's theirs to take.

What a typical tory buffoon. All his opinions are probably just passed down the line from father to son for generations and he has no idea about the real world. I bet he's a carbon copy of his father politically and hasn't come to an original conclusion on his own about anything.
...He's an adult. He's allowed his opinion without being patronized by his age too.

[Elliot]

Literally all I care about when it comes to this topic is assuming equality with responsibility or assuming equality while also eradicating the responsibility. Moral progress like this is a slow burner and long track, and I don’t want any sick double standards to slip thru the cracks, is all

Ok and back to big brother..

[Niamh.]

According to someone else in this thread who gets mad at semantics every time I post it is. It’s not like there’s a mass social advocacy for more women dustbin workers, or miners. The discussion is usually, profession wise anywho, about ceos, phd students, mathematical and scientific graduate fields..Obviously, why wouldn't women be campaigning for the more interesting high paying jobs? this whole I don't see you wanting equality in the **** jobs is utterly senseless, no one forces men to be miners or dustmen?

[crashandburn]

One of the main things I hate about this gender discussion is the consistency of the double standards that are actually quite harmful, and this is mostly because my mom was quite absusive and we weren’t able to do anything because of this consisting double standard.
I'm sorry to hear that. that must have sucked.

For the record, I don't fully disagree with Cameron's statement. the way see it, if someone hits you, you can hit them back. Man/woman/alien. Doesn't matter. For me that's equality.

But rather than worry about who can hit who, I'd rather focus on making a world where nobody hits anybody.

I'm more offended by the way he puts his comments across and the fact that he's mouthing off about things he knows nothing about that have just been spoon-fed to him.

since everyone associates conservatives with those who oppose social progrsssion, and thus it isn’t taken seriously
Well to be fair, it's a reasonable association to make, considering they are the ones who most often oppose forms of social progression. I mean even the name of their party - Conservative - literally means "keeping things the same."

[GoldHeart]

Literally all I care about when it comes to this topic is assuming equality with responsibility or assuming equality while also eradicating the responsibility. Moral progress like this is a slow burner and long track, and I don’t want any sick double standards to slip thru the cracks, is all

Ok and back to big brother..

Unfortunately there's alot of double standards .
Nobody should hit someone unless they've been violent to them or utterly disgusting .

[y.winter]

hit BACK - which tbh for the sake of the argument, is valid enough.

I can't say I like the Cameron I see in the video, but implying that he supports hitting a woman solely for being a bitch and removing the part of "if she beats him first" - is a reach from reachland.

[Elliot]

Obviously, why wouldn't women be campaigning for the more interesting high paying jobs? this whole I don't see you wanting equality in the **** jobs is utterly senseless, no one forces men to be miners or dustmen?

Well that’s my point then. It’s about wanting the ‘good parts’ of equality, without assuming the bad parts the other gender has to deal with, and completely ignoring it really. Das literally it

[Pink Panther]

tea :idc:

I agree with him. Womens that beat men deserve to be hit back. Point blank.

[Elliot]

I'm sorry to hear that. that must have sucked.

For the record, I don't fully disagree with Cameron's statement. the way see it, if someone hits you, you can hit them back. Man/woman/alien. Doesn't matter. For me that's equality.

But rather than worry about who can hit who, I'd rather focus on making a world where nobody hits anybody.

I'm more offended by the way he puts his comments across and the fact that he's mouthing off about things he knows nothing about that have just been spoon-fed to him.


Well to be fair, it's a reasonable association to make, considering they are the ones who most often oppose forms of social progression. I mean even the name of their party - Conservative - literally means "keeping things the same."

Yeah I think priorities should be evaluated it’d be far better if we could have a world without violence, I’m not sure if that’s a thing that’s gonna happen anything soon tho... baby steps

And yeah ur right it’s just as someone who’s very left/liberal a lot of liberal circles I’ve found myself in don’t give ample criticism to certain flaws in this way of thinking, the only people that do are the conserstives, and due to them being conserstives said criticism gets brushed off.

It’s all part of the discussion and it’s all relevant imo. A lot of times people disregard ‘the other side’ of the gender debate with like ‘well women have it worse so they should supersede it. Like I’m what, one in like millions of people in the debate giving the other spectrum the time of day? I’m sure the absurd rates of sexual assault and gender pay gap are getting amply discussed. Imo everyone who’s in the working class is disadvantaged by gender roles in some way, to different severities. It all warrants discussion tho imo, to move to a future where maybe one day we’ll all be liberated from this bs

[Pink Panther]

hit BACK - which tbh for the sake of the argument, is valid enough.

I can't say I like the Cameron I see in the video, but implying that he supports hitting a woman solely for being a bitch and removing the part of "if she beats him first" - is a reach from reachland.

Exactly removing that part is manipulative and misleading...

[Niamh.]

Well that’s my point then. It’s about wanting the ‘good parts’ of equality, without assuming the bad parts the other gender has to deal with, and completely ignoring it really. Das literally itThey dont "have" to deal with anything, nobody forces people to go for jobs they don't want, what are you on about? I mean are you actually saying women shouldn't be allowed go for good jobs they're interested in because there's not enough women who want to be dustmen?

[Elliot]

They dont "have" to deal with anything, nobody forces people to go for jobs they don't want, what are you on about? I mean are you actually saying women shouldn't be allowed go for good jobs they're interested in because there's not enough women who want to be dustmen?

Thanks for misrepresenting everything I’ve said and getting mad for no reason

I’m pretty sure I’ve already spelled out how I’ve felt in the like 20 posts I’ve posted on this thread, that would prove what ur saying now to be false

[JoshBB]

"hit BACK" really is the key word here. I'm honestly shook this descended into a full on feminism debate :laugh2:

[AProducer'sWetDream]

They dont "have" to deal with anything, nobody forces people to go for jobs they don't want, what are you on about? I mean are you actually saying women shouldn't be allowed go for good jobs they're interested in because there's not enough women who want to be dustmen?

I just think he's saying that if equality truly is the end goal, then people should be campaigning to increase participation of women in all parts of the labour market where they are underrepresented e.g. dustbinwomen. Instead, most of the campaigning seems to be focussed on getting women into the boardrooms.

[Beso]

Am I the only one who doesn't think he said anything that bad? :skull:

No

[GoldHeart]

"hit BACK" really is the key word here. I'm honestly shook this descended into a full on feminism debate :laugh2:

I'll leave Elliot & Niamh to it , i've said my bit already :idc: .

[JoshBB]

I just think he's saying that if equality truly is the end goal, then people should be campaigning to increase participation of women in all parts of the labour market where they are underrepresented e.g. dustbinwomen. Instead, most of the campaigning seems to be focussed on getting women into the boardrooms.

Well yes, it's mostly about power. When there is an equality of power (in terms of gender), the rest should fall in line hopefully. I don't think the boardroom focus is hypocritical/illogical.

[Elliot]

The thing is I’m sure I probably agree with you niahm but you’ve misunderstanding what I’m saying... my only point is it’s not equality if you want to consist detrimental double standards, like men not being allowed to hit women but the contrary being allowed. By definition it’s then not equality, and an entirely different beast to what I thought feminism was?
But yeah like at the above this stuff will probably fall into place so it doesn’t matter too much. My only worry are the double standards

[JoshBB]

I'll leave Elliot & Niamh to it , i've said my bit already :idc: .

Think I must've scrolled past. Care to summarise? :laugh:

[Niamh.]

I just think he's saying that if equality truly is the end goal, then people should be campaigning to increase participation of women in all parts of the labour market where they are underrepresented e.g. dustbinwomen. Instead, most of the campaigning seems to be focussed on getting women into the boardrooms.Why would they if the demand/desire isn't there though? Biologically speaking women (in general) aren't as physically strong as men so it's understandable that women wouldn't be as inclined to go for those kind of jobs, don't you think? That doesn't apply in CEO, media etc type jobs

[AProducer'sWetDream]

Well yes, it's mostly about power. When there is an equality of power (in terms of gender), the rest should fall in line hopefully. I don't think the boardroom focus is hypocritical/illogical.

So then it's not really about equality in every sense of the word, is it? It's about ensuring women have the same representation in the seats of power as men. There is a diffrrence between campaigning for power to be shared equally between men and women, and wanting true equality between the sexes in different areas of life.

[montblanc]

I agree with the last bit quite a lot
I don’t wanna get too political, but I feel like if women truly want to be accepted on equal terms to men, which is really great, then they should also bear the consequences of this, because surprise being a man in society isn’t all sunshine. I’ll be content when we see moral protest against gender roles on both ends of the spectrum, which I feel is quite lacking in the daily conversation. Right now it’s just more about women wanting powerful roles

this comment is a bit problematic because it implies that men are treated worse than women in society when that's completely the opposite

i don't know if that's exactly what you mean but that's what it's implying

[crashandburn]

Elliot I think you're making a lot of valid points and I respect your opinion even though I don't agree with everything. You're definitely coming from a good, well-intentioned place.

But I think you're getting caught-up in details instead of worrying about the big picture. Sometimes details are important. Sometimes they just distract from the issue.

Regardless of what your opinions are I respect them more than that silly buffoon Cameron.

He's socially awkward, no life experience at all, clearly doesn't know how to interact with others or talk about anything that makes him remotely uncomfortable - lacking maturity and the mentality to deal with the real world.... yet somehow thinks he's in a valid position to know how the country should work. Sure, Jan.

[Niamh.]

The thing is I’m sure I probably agree with you niahm but you’ve misunderstanding what I’m saying... my only point is it’s not equality if you want to consist detrimental double standards, like men not being allowed to hit women but the contrary being allowed. By definition it’s then not equality, and an entirely different beast to what I thought feminism was?
But yeah like at the above this stuff will probably fall into place so it doesn’t matter too much. My only worry are the double standardsI never said that though, clearly no one should be hitting anyone, male or female

[AProducer'sWetDream]

this comment is a bit problematic because it implies that men are treated worse than women in society when that's completely the opposite

i don't know if that's exactly what you mean but that's what it's implying

It's literally just stating the obvious that men have problems too. Show me where he said or implied that men have it worse than women?

[y.winter]

So basically we can change the title of this thread to "OK falsely implies that Cameron supports violence against women, but he doesn't actually"

End of drama. We can move on?

[Elliot]

I never said that though, clearly no one should be hitting anyone, male or female

Well then ur debating something that I don’t even disagree with, I just phrased it weird, sorry ig..?

[montblanc]

So basically we can change the title of this thread to "OK falsely implies that Cameron supports violence against women, but he doesn't actually"

End of drama. We can move on?

the title is fine it's not like it's biased :laugh:

[GoldHeart]

Think I must've scrolled past. Care to summarise? :laugh:

I basically said double standards exist sadly.

I don't see a problem with self defence :shrug: . It's not fair to hit someone and not expect them to retaliate especially when we all know most men WOULDN'T lay a finger on a woman anyway . Not everyone is a violent thug as some would like to believe .

[JoshBB]

So then it's not really about equality in every sense of the word, is it? It's about ensuring women have the same representation in the seats of power as men. There is a diffrrence between campaigning for power to be shared equally between men and women, and wanting true equality between the sexes in different areas of life.

Yes, it is. It's about focusing on priorities first. If the focus was on female dustbin workers, and feminists rubbed their hands together and was like "ah, job done", things would quickly regress back to inequality. And it wouldn't address other areas, nor the wider picture.

Power is more important, and it makes sense to focus on that as a priority.

[JoshBB]

I basically said double standards exist sadly.

I don't see a problem with self defence :shrug: . It's not fair to hit someone and not expect them to retaliate especially when we all know most men WOULDN'T lay a finger on a woman anyway . Not everyone is a violent thug as some would like to believe .

I basically said the same, that self-defense is okay :laugh: did you quote the wrong post or something?

[montblanc]

It's literally just stating the obvious that men have problems too. Show me where he said or implied that men have it worse than women?

literally the whole sentence lmao

[copy40]

Agreed. It's not a man's place (certainly not a little boy with no life experience) to set down the terms and conditions of equality to women. Women aren't asking your permission, boyo. Equality isn't yours to give under certain terms. It's theirs to take.

What a typical tory buffoon. All his opinions are probably just passed down the line from father to son for generations and he has no idea about the real world. I bet he's a carbon copy of his father politically and hasn't come to an original conclusion on his own about anything.
As his father all his political views and any other he has are his own he never knew his grandfather announce for me I don't have political views and I think you need to listen to the video carefully before you come to assumptions

[Elliot]

Yes, it is. It's about focusing on priorities first. If the focus was on female dustbin workers, and feminists rubbed their hands together and was like "ah, job done", things would quickly regress back to inequality. And it wouldn't address other areas, nor the wider picture.

Power is more important, and it makes sense to focus on that as a priority.

Multiple people in this thread have said it’s not about power..... hngg

It’s just more of a semantics thing at this point lol I’m sure everyone in this thread wants men and women to be equal

[GoldHeart]

I basically said the same, that self-defense is okay :laugh: did you quote the wrong post or something?

I never quoted anything wrong ?:conf: .

This debate just got heavy and got bombarded fast so i gave up in the end :idc: .

[AProducer'sWetDream]

literally the whole sentence lmao

Ok but he literally doesn't mention women in the bit you've highlighted. He just mentions that life as a man isn't always perfect. These two ideas aren't mutually exclusive:

Life isn't always a walk in the park for men.
There are institutional biases that make life even more difficult for women as it is for men.

Both can be true.

[crashandburn]

As his father all his political views and any other he has are his own he never knew his grandfather announce for me I don't have political views and I think you need to listen to the video carefully before you come to assumptions

As someone who grew up in an orphanage I can tell you not one single child comes to naturally support tory politics unless they are brought up that way or guided to it somehow.

PS hi Dad your son was funny when he was hiding in the shower.

[Elliot]

this comment is a bit problematic because it implies that men are treated worse than women in society when that's completely the opposite

i don't know if that's exactly what you mean but that's what it's implying

what??? No

Holy fk like if it’s only about priority then why are we discussing feminism at all and why aren’t we assuming all our efforts going to Africa and ending poverty and famine? Like I’m sure they have it worse there than anywhere in the world

Being a man in society has its lavish list of benefits, but also it’s downfalls, same for the other gender too, maybe one has it worse than the other, does that not mean the other side of the coin warrants discussion?

[DouglasS]

If he’s defending himself of course. There are videos of women hitting and attacking men or other women and the boyfriend rightfully steps in to protect his girlfriend and smacks her. Hitting an aggressive racist woman that is attacking a family member is perfectly okay

[AProducer'sWetDream]

Yes, it is. It's about focusing on priorities first. If the focus was on female dustbin workers, and feminists rubbed their hands together and was like "ah, job done", things would quickly regress back to inequality. And it wouldn't address other areas, nor the wider picture.

Power is more important, and it makes sense to focus on that as a priority.

So I completely agree that getting women into positions of power is a bigger priority as that will lead to better policy making and a levelling of the playing field. It is a step on the path to true equality. My point is that if that is your end- point, it's not really about equality.

[hijaxers]

No wonder he is staying back from the women


His Dark Side

Nah he's scared ****less - women are an unknown quantity to him, i think his only experience of women has been his mother.

[Niamh.]

Well then ur debating something that I don’t even disagree with, I just phrased it weird, sorry ig..?Well no, I disagreed with a statement you made earlier which I quoted, I didn't comment on the hitting thing at all

[Elliot]

Well no, I disagreed with a statement you made earlier which I quoted, I didn't comment on the hitting thing at all

Yeah I worded it weird sometimes I’m not the best at articulating things
I was talking about the double standards, you thought I meant equality was something men owned, which I don’t believe

[Niamh.]

Yeah I worded it weird sometimes I’m not the best at articulating things
I was talking about the double standards, you thought I meant equality was something men owned, which I don’t believe[emoji106]

[Robodog]

The big difference is between equal opportunities (yay) and equality of outcome (boo) :

Feminism used to be about fighting for equal opportunities and removing barriers that prevented women from attaining top spots. Now that has been achieved (eg - female prime minister, head of met police, CEOs etc), feminism has since morphed into demand for equality of outcome.

Equal opportunities means everyone competes on a level playing-field, and the best people rise to the top, based on individual efforts and merit - regardless of their gender (or any other social category).

This is freedom.

Equality of outcome means judging people according to gender (or any other social 'group') and then forcing equal representation. This means people getting jobs based on 'box-ticking' and can even result in people not getting jobs simply because if their 'social category' is already 'over-represented'.

This is social engineering.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Example : Presenter Jon Holmes being sacked from the BBC due to his skin colour -

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/oct/02/bbc-presenter-jon-holmes-the-now-show-sacked


QUOTE FROM THE ARTICLE: “If we are now openly giving jobs to people based on the colour of their skin, surely that is only emphasising just the kind of social division that the equality that I was brought up to embrace strives to eliminate?” he writes.

“So what if – and I know this is radical – but what if everything and every job in all walks of life was open to everyone equally, and we all just agree that everyone’s the same, by which I mean – you know – ‘human’?”

.

[BENDERBOY]

I like him even more.

[Elliot]

The big difference is between equal opportunities (yay) and equality of outcome (boo) :

Feminism used to be about fighting for equal opportunities and removing barriers that prevented women from attaining top spots. Now that has been achieved (eg - female prime minister, head of met police, CEOs etc), feminism has since morphed into demand for equality of outcome.

Equal opportunities means everyone competes on a level playing-field, and the best people rise to the top, based on individual efforts and merit - regardless of their gender (or any other social category).

This is freedom.

Equality of outcome means judging people according to gender (or any other social 'group') and then forcing equal representation. This means people getting jobs based on 'box-ticking' and can even result in people not getting jobs simply because if their 'social category' is already 'over-represented'.

This is social engineering.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Example : Presenter Jon Holmes being sacked from the BBC due to his skin colour -

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/oct/02/bbc-presenter-jon-holmes-the-now-show-sacked


QUOTE FROM THE ARTICLE: “If we are now openly giving jobs to people based on the colour of their skin, surely that is only emphasising just the kind of social division that the equality that I was brought up to embrace strives to eliminate?” he writes.

“So what if – and I know this is radical – but what if everything and every job in all walks of life was open to everyone equally, and we all just agree that everyone’s the same, by which I mean – you know – ‘human’?”

.

I think the argument is there are societal barriers that even with the equal opportunity would never be fufilled by certain groups. Like for example the situation in America for a lot of black communities, where a lot of these communities are unable to break through economically, and it is believed to be because of systemic and socialtal prejudice and barriers. It’s an involved debate but I think the baseline idea is that equal oppurntity isn’t justice to these groups

[Alf]

Agreed.It's not a man's place (certainly not a little boy with no life experience) to set down the terms and conditions of equality to women. Women aren't asking your permission, boyo. Equality isn't yours to give under certain terms. It's theirs to take.

What a typical tory buffoon. All his opinions are probably just passed down the line from father to son for generations and he has no idea about the real world. I bet he's a carbon copy of his father politically and hasn't come to an original conclusion on his own about anything.Where is he setting down terms? He's giving his opinion, which is most definitely his and every mans place.

Your problem with him looks to me like that you don't want him to have an opinion unless it agrees with yours.

[crashandburn]

Your problem with him looks to me like that you don't want him to have an opinion unless it agrees with yours.

Seems unlikely that would be a personality trait of mine, considering I made various posts in this very thread to Elliot saying I very much welcomed, respected and liked his opinions even though I disagreed with some of them.

[user104658]

Sad, angry little cuck.

...that's all there is to say really.

[Moniqua]

Men are trash.

[TaylorCallum]

I don't know why y'all taking that video seriously. He's sitting there with a stuffed animal headpiece and a ring around his neck, I honestly think he's lowkey trolling :skull:. Don't get me wrong he probably does have somewhat similar opinions as to what he stated in the video, but I'm pretty sure he was deliberately trying to be provocative.

As for what he said, I don't think I personally could hit a woman (some women could definitely beat me up anyway) but at the same time I'm not going to be overly outraged at a guy if a woman hits him and he hits her back. Not saying I agree with it, but you don't know what type of reaction you're going to get if you hit someone, especially if it's someone you don't know. Some men might not hit back but sometimes you'll pick the wrong person on the wrong day and get smacked 10x harder. It's the risk you take I guess. Nobody should be laying hands on anyone though. But it reminds me of this iconic video:

7nMynSFlv_w

[Marsh.]

But if a woman is hitting a man then surely he has every right to do the same?

No, neither have the right.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

[Robodog]

I think the argument is there are societal barriers that even with the equal opportunity would never be fufilled by certain groups. Like for example the situation in America for a lot of black communities, where a lot of these communities are unable to break through economically, and it is believed to be because of systemic and socialtal prejudice and barriers. It’s an involved debate but I think the baseline idea is that equal oppurntity isn’t justice to these groups

Obama's presidency proves that blacks in america can now achieve the highest office. There are so many factors and debates as to why some communities perform better economically than others. But preventing equal opportunities in favour of forcing equal outcomes is not the answer.

I mean, you could go on forever defining groups and sub-groups and intersectional groups - all requiring equal representation in every sphere. It's too complex and unrealistic. It would require constant policing. And it sees people as categories rather than as individuals - and we all know how dangerous that mentality is (eg - Nazis, Soviet Russia etc)

Basically authoritarianism. Whereas equal opportunities = freedom.

[TaylorCallum]

Obama's presidency proves that blacks in america can now achieve the highest office. There are so many factors and debates as to why some communities perform better economically than others. But preventing equal opportunities in favour of forcing equal outcomes is not the answer.

I mean, you could go on forever defining groups and sub-groups and intersectional groups - all requiring equal representation in every sphere. It's too complex and unrealistic. It would require constant policing. And it sees people as categories rather than as individuals - and we all know how dangerous that mentality is (eg - Nazis, Soviet Russia etc)

Basically authoritarianism. Whereas equal opportunities = freedom.

Obama's presidency didn't do as much for the black community as people think. Just because they had a black president - biracial technically, he's part white - doesn't really nullify the many issues that black people face in the US. They are still getting shot in the streets by police officers and not even just in the streets, Botham Jean was shot in his own home. The US still has a huge race issue (well so does the world really).

If Obama had said or done even a fraction of the things that Donald Trump had done he would have never have gotten elected and if he was you'd be sure those Republicans would be foaming at the mouth screaming about impeachment every second of the day.

I do agree, however, about the "quotas". Having to have this person here because they are one thing and hiring that person there because they are another is very strange. It should go to the person best suited to the job but there are still a lot of problems that minority groups face.

[smudgie]

:shrug: don’t hit anyone you are not prepared to get hit back by.

[Ant.]

Ysee, unlike Ellis (who probably didn't remember writing tweets from 4 years ago), Cameron literally labelled himself as a vlogger. Did he not expect people to search him up and find these types of videos...

[Barry.]

Am I the only one who doesn't think he said anything that bad? :skull:

Women could be just as strong so I agree.

[BBDodge]

BOTS still think Cameron is super sweet.

[pontyboi]

Can we just all just acknowledge he was 16 when this was posted and obviously just wanted attention.

We are debating over a child's behaviour lol.

[MB.]

Can we just all just acknowledge he was 16 when this was posted and obviously just wanted attention.

We are debating over a child's behaviour lol.

...he wasn't 16 in the 1970s, this was two years ago

[Elliot]

This wasn’t even his point in the video why is the title so misleading

[pontyboi]

...he wasn't 16 in the 1970s, this was two years ago

Yes 2 years ago when he was 16.