Pandoras Box is opened - was kind of inevitable

[spacebandit]

So should Emily haver been given the boot - the clear answer is yes, C4 had no choice, but by doing so it has to be seen as a knee-jerk reaction, as they must ignore context.

But in doing so £ndemol and C4 have now opened a Pandoras Box to put the complaints in.

Why ?, well Charley used the word herself, describing herself as a N***r about a week ago.

What £ndemol have now done is laid open a whole raft of accusations regarding censorship.

The incident was a world away from what happened in CBB5, contextually, so now C4 have been forced to put a blanket ban on a word - this does not bode well for some artistically worthy material

Who is allowed to say what ?, this discussion has been going on for years, but what this will come to is this : a caucasian contestant on BB was booted out for using the word n****r and another contestant "a person of colour" wasn't, though used the same word in the same context, i.e. during verbage.

This will inevitably fall back onto the risible "black people can't be racist" argument which frankly holds no water.

What do we censor next, songs ?

All rap songs go
All American based street poetry, the likes of Gil Scott Heron - goes.

Lets get more specific, how about Sly and the Family Stone ?, a superb band starting in the late 60's, their track "Don't Call Me N****r, Whitey", would anyone care to elucidate which of the epithets in that title is racist, or are they both ?, is it a racist song ? - its certainly a protest song, but if racist, the racist in regards to whom ?

How about Patti Smith and "Rock and Roll N***er" - anyone care to venture if that is a racist song based upon the title alone, what would happen if a HM ever mentioned that song by name, or the Sly Stone one ?.


The show is crippled, the "celebs" of CBB5 have seen to that.

Sad but true


:rolleyes:

[Slartibartfast]

Excellent post mate, well argued and sound reasoning.

And I like that song by Patti Smith, please don't let them ban it :tongue:

[easypeasy]

theres just some words a white person cant say unless they are looking for trouble, they shouldnt be surprised if it smacks them back in the face later.

[spacebandit]

Originally posted by Slartibartfast
Excellent post mate, well argued and sound reasoning.

And I like that song by Patti Smith, please don't let them ban it :tongue:

I was going to put the lyrics to Rock and Roll N****r in my post as it best illustrates how the word in context is not in itself racist, its the intent behind the word that makes it racist.

But I didn't think one post could handle that many asterisks, anyone who has heard the song will know what I mean.

:shocked:

[spacebandit]

Originally posted by easypeasy
theres just some words a white person cant say unless they are looking for trouble, they shouldnt be surprised if it smacks them back in the face later.

and what about "people of colour" when speaking to white people ?

Honky ?
Whitey ?

Both have racist connotations..... it is the intent that makes the word racist, not the actual word itself

[cgimusic]

Why didn't Channel 4 ignore the problem and not broadcast it instead of making themselves look bad. After all OfCom on regulates broadcasting.

[GiRTh]

Not this one again.

[easypeasy]

well the word is gradually swerving away from its original meaning and purpose to refer to anybody who is deemed worthy of a place in the gutter, even eminem has the sense not to use the word though. its ok for freinds to jokingly put each other down with derogatory terms but only a fool would say the word to strangers or in mixed race company.

[GiRTh]

The third time I've posted this today:

How many times do i have to answer this one?

First of all, I have to point out that I'm of Jamaican ancestry. Now, this word was a word that I grew up hearing over and over again. No one uses this word like my mother. Trust me.

The whole point is that - when black people use this word we know what we are saying. When a white person uses this word we don't know what they're trying to say. When a black man call another black man the n word he is basically calling him an idiot or a fool. When a white person uses the word we do not know what they're trying to say and due to the origin of the word most black people will take offence. So my advise to white people is to avoid using this word in the presence of a black person because we don't know what you're trying to say by using this word. It's double standard, I know, but it's like telling racist jokes. Jewish people can tell Jewish Jokes, black people an tell black joke. Basically, if you're not one then avoid anything that could be construed as racist.

[the_chosen_one]

Originally posted by easypeasy
its ok for freinds to jokingly put each other down with derogatory terms but only a fool would say the word to strangers or in mixed race company.

So that creates a clear double standard by which you expect people to live. One race of people is exempt from using a word which another race is allowed to use, and everyone is supposed to understand their role.

To me, that theory is based on ignorance. Not your ignorance, easypeasy, the ignorance of those ignoring the double standard without striving for equality.

[easypeasy]

+1 karma for GIRTh, that explains it very clearly, as for being called "whitey" and taking offence at it......what a load of bs.
"honkey" doesnt offend me either, those two words dont have the historical connotations the n word does, a people ripped from their homeland and beaten and tortured into slavery and dehumanisation were targeted by one simple word to express their worth in the eyes of their "masters".
If a black person called me a "cracker" i would take great offence though.....thats a real insult to a white person.

[chelsie]

Originally posted by spacebandit
Originally posted by easypeasy
theres just some words a white person cant say unless they are looking for trouble, they shouldnt be surprised if it smacks them back in the face later.

and what about "people of colour" when speaking to white people ?

Honky ?
Whitey ?

Both have racist connotations..... it is the intent that makes the word racist, not the actual word itself

But what 'people of colour' do you know actually use the word honky?

Anyway Honkey is more of a derogatory term against the polish immigrants than as white people on the whole.

In no way can you compare the N word to either the words 'whitey' or 'honkey'- A word that carries sooo much history...It's basically a very offensive and hurtful word.

[GiRTh]

Thanx for the karma easy.:thumbs:

[Emilee]

Originally posted by spacebandit
"black people can't be racist"

:rolleyes:

that is the stupidest thing ive ever heard. of course black can be rasist to white and completly the oppostie way round.

[Lil-Lindz]

I dont like the view that black people cannot be racist, anyone can be racist, racism is is being nasty to someone because of their race, so black people can actually be racist
and i totally agree that this whole racism thing was bound to pop up again, i just hope that the media doesnt blow it out of porportion like they allways do. It was a relatively small incident in comparison to the racism row in january, but i think the way BB handled it just goes to show that there will be no tolerance to any racism in what ever context
i am also annoyed that BB will be showing the incident on the hilights show, all it will cause is controversy and cause yet more complaints

[Bells]

I don't think it will, simply because BB has already taken action and ejected Emily, so complaining won't really do much. Because the situation was dealt with, we can move on. And I think viewers are entitled to seeing what actually happened rather than being kept in the dark about it - that'll only lead us to continuously discussing it rather than putting it aside.

[Rory]

Great post. I do agree about the "black people can't be racist" statement is so false. Emily didn't say it in an aggressive manner, and I don't think she should have been removed.

C4 will most likely continue to get complaints about the show if something like this is taken so serious. What happened to Jack in CBB5?

[Wiglet]

This has been gone over and over again there are TWO differing variations of this N word spelt TWO differing ways. Listen to Girth earlier or look the words (Adjective and noun) in the dictionary.

Is it worth racking over the same argument unless someone has anything useful to actually add?

[Lil-Lindz]

Originally posted by Rory
Great post. I do agree about the "black people can't be racist" statement is so false. Emily didn't say it in an aggressive manner, and I don't think she should have been removed.

C4 will most likely continue to get complaints about the show if something like this is taken so serious. What happened to Jack in CBB5?

but if they didnt take it so seriously they would get accused of failing to act, which will lead to another racism row and then BB being taken off the air
and no one wants that

[spacebandit]

Originally posted by Emilee
Originally posted by spacebandit
"black people can't be racist"

:rolleyes:

that is the stupidest thing ive ever heard. of course black can be rasist to white and completly the oppostie way round.

If you intend commenting on something - might be wise to include the whole sentence

Originally posted by spacebandit



This will inevitably fall back onto the risible "black people can't be racist" argument which frankly holds no water.

[spacebandit]

Originally posted by chelsie

But what 'people of colour' do you know actually use the word honky?

Anyway Honkey is more of a derogatory term against the polish immigrants than as white people on the whole.

In no way can you compare the N word to either the words 'whitey' or 'honkey'- A word that carries sooo much history...It's basically a very offensive and hurtful word.

Take a look at literally hundreds of movies, all american, from the 1970's, "honky" and "Whitey" are used as derogatory terms.

Whats good for the goose...............

[GiRTh]

Originally posted by spacebandit


Take a look at literally hundreds of movies, all american, from the 1970's, "honky" and "Whitey" are used as derogatory terms.

Whats good for the goose............... Do you think the two words have the same impact?

[spacebandit]

As an aside, do we ban or censor the movie "The Dambusters" ?,

Guy Gibsons dog, a black labrador was called "N****r"

[Rory]

Originally posted by Lil-Lindz
Originally posted by Rory
Great post. I do agree about the "black people can't be racist" statement is so false. Emily didn't say it in an aggressive manner, and I don't think she should have been removed.

C4 will most likely continue to get complaints about the show if something like this is taken so serious. What happened to Jack in CBB5?

but if they didnt take it so seriously they would get accused of failing to act, which will lead to another racism row and then BB being taken off the air
and no one wants that
I doubt there would be any harsh feelings afterwards, and if Charley took offense to it then she should have been removed.

They didn't remove jack when he made his comment about Shilpa..

[spacebandit]

Originally posted by GiRTh
Originally posted by spacebandit


Take a look at literally hundreds of movies, all american, from the 1970's, "honky" and "Whitey" are used as derogatory terms.

Whats good for the goose............... Do you think the two words have the same impact?

It depends on the intent and the context, as I state in my OP

If it didn't then why hasn't Charley been booted ?. she used it days ago

[Foebane100]

In any other BB nothing much would have happened to Emily, it is only because of the huge outrage at what they allowed the bully Jade to do and they are still reeling from all the bad publicity that they are cacking their pants at any hint of racism, welcome to PC overload. In previous BBs she may have been taken in to the DR and talked to about appropriate use of language, after checking that Charley was not that bothered. If you want to be very very picky about it Emily has a case for race discrimination after Victor was allowed to say it repeatedly and nothing happened to him.

[GiRTh]

Originally posted by spacebandit
Originally posted by GiRTh
Originally posted by spacebandit


Take a look at literally hundreds of movies, all american, from the 1970's, "honky" and "Whitey" are used as derogatory terms.

Whats good for the goose............... Do you think the two words have the same impact?

It depends on the intent and the context, as I state in my OP

If it didn't then why hasn't Charley been booted ?. she used it days ago Charleys incident was not reported. Did Charley use the word infront of Emily? If so then Charley may be partly to blame for Emily's feeling that the was allowed to use the word.

[easypeasy]

it wouldnt surpise me if charley used the word to lure emily into this trap, Ive never heard a black person use the word in a room full of white people before, its not the wisest move on her part even though it worked in her favour.

[Turrican]

Originally posted by easypeasy
it wouldnt surpise me if charley used the word to lure emily into this trap.


Now, wouldnt that just be sweet justice!! I like this theory. As Emily was so smug about bruising Ziggy's ego with HER trap she laid the day before. Well, whatever the outcome it's all good.

Glad the racist little brat it outta there.

:xyxwave:

[nodisharmony]

Emily has been accused by many people as being a Racist housemate in BB8, sadly, once again we have approached that moment, where a word has come out of a housemate's mouth which has been deemed offensive.

A "Racist" word or comment, is also described as being offensive. This is because it could offend a person or persons, "whether white or non-white".

When this offensive word which came from Emily's mouth was said, Endemol had NO choice, but to throw Emily out.

This is the result of a company who has made the decision at the right time, to make sure that any offensive material which is voiced in the BB house is edited out & then, the correct action to be taken, "beyond the word being said"

The BB8 show is broadcasted on Channel 4

What needs to be said is very crucial to Endemol. The responsibility lies with the editing team & those who moderate the show.

Emily has said an offensive word which the editing team have spotted immediately

The decision making process, which had to me made is clouded. Very clouded.

Endemol have obviously "Money" on their mind & to create great ratings on a show like BB it needs to contain something quite dramatic.

We need to look at CBB5, where three past housemates were in deep water, when words & comments were construed by some to contain possible racial overtones. These words & comments were also deemed "Offensive"

We need to approach the present day & look once again to the word, "Judgement". But was the Judgement a result of good editing on the day, or, was it more than that??

Look back at CBB5 once again & think to yourself why Endemol's team of editors have "This time" decided to do a great job and act accordingly to the rules which are layed down.

This situation of "Emily" is looking very suspect.

Not only was the word edited out, but every part of this situation points to CBB5

The reason that it points to CBB5 is because of the lack of quality editing in relation to what was deemed offensive to many thousand people, apparently wasn't spotted by the editing team from Endemol.

Andy Duncan from Channel 4 has made his opinions very clear on the matter & is very eager to help Ofcom in anyway he can.

The accountibility just HAS to lye with someone. So who is it with?

We need to look at today & think to ourselves:- Why have Endemol done their job at this particular time?

The answer is due to Clouded judgements. They have to realise that the Police are watching the show and have no interest in creating another racist furore.

The company Endemol & the group of editors have had to think with a different frame of mind.

It certainly isn't a case as "Business-as-per-usual"

That is very obvious.

Nobody can forget CBB5 & the three girl's who were placed in a very bad situation, due to bad editing & lack of good editing.

The situation then was in regards of making plenty more ratings. This really makes plenty of money for Endemol & money is all they really want, you know.

The Clouded judgements which I am on about, is whereby the editors who have moderated this show, have had to bear so much in mind.

They shall be aware of the tremendous pressure they are on & when these editors edit the show, they suddenly have to behave. "Imagine that???? Behave".

There are real reasons for behaving & that is because of those who are higher up the chain, Just above the editors, who have suddenly become aware that they are being watched closely.

The judgements which have been clouded by certain important people who are watching, are now actually doing their job properly. "Imagine that???? Do the job properly".

This has made this situation regarding Emily, a much easier situation for Emily. She doesn't have to deal with the same problem as the three past housemates from CBB5 who were placed in a terrible situation, which wasn't their fault.

The job was sorted & editing was done correctly, this time.

There was NO way that Endemol could NOT do their job properly, this has worked well.

Emily is NOT a racist person.

That is obvious.

Beyond this, Emily will be interegated and interviewed and everything else. It is the usual thing which happens after the event.

The word she said, which is offensive, was edited out, that is the main thing.

Emily has to realise what the Newspapers want to do with her. The answer to that is pretty clear.

They will try to destroy her life & bring her to her knees & beyond. This is where she needs to turn to somebody who knows exactly what to do.

Somebody who can sort all of this minor problem from becoming much bigger. This is what is very important to Emily & her future interests.

There is nothing much more to add, but, "Sort this out & make sure Emily knows how the system works"

Don't look for new-friends who will promise you a path through this. Emily needs a different kind of guidance and that guidance can give her the weapons she needs to combat the haters & the Newspaper who says they can be trusted.

Emily must be supported right now.







nodisharmony

[Emilee]

Loved your speech Nodisharmony! Well done.

And i couldnt aggree with you more.

Emily is certainly not rasist and the word just splipped out not intended to be offensive. She needs some support at this moment.

[sunlight]

let's stop this now it really is turning into a white against black debate. emily was wrong why do some people find it so hard to say. we have moved to far to pretend anybody on this earth would be dumb enough to say that to a black person you hardly know. gay people say q**** all the time to each other i would never use that word. and it's their business if they choose to talk about themselfs like that. who am i to say they are wrong.

[nodisharmony]

Originally posted by Emilee
Loved your speech Nodisharmony! Well done.

And i couldnt aggree with you more.

Emily is certainly not rasist and the word just splipped out not intended to be offensive. She needs some support at this moment.


Thanks Emilee:thumbs:

I say the truth:bigsmile:






nodisharmony :angel:

[Red Moon]

Politicians never say the truth they skirt round the issues.

[nodisharmony]

Originally posted by Red Moon
Politicians never say the truth they skirt round the issues.

Politicians just help run the country, or.






nodisharmony :angel: