US Concentration camps

[Tom4784]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJVqs_mhOA4&t=204s

Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez recently described the Migrant detention centers as concentration camps and when you watch interviews like that (Also this BBC article comes with a clip from another inspector interviewed about condition, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJVqs_mhOA4&t=204s) it's difficult to deny that she's right.

Malnourished children that aren't being taken care of, that aren't being provided with soap or anything to help their hygiene and that are expected to take care of younger children instead of being cared for by adults. Sick children are placed in isolation with little to no supervision and the laws that prevent the border services from releasing these children into the custody of their parents or guardians is not being followed either. By all accounts these camps are disregarding the Flores Agreement completely.

There's also the aspect that a lot of children are being purposely mislabeled as unaccompanied by the border services when they crossed with their parents, a year on from when the story first exploded and families are still being split up en mass. It's gross negligence, it's incredibly inhumane and it's hard to believe that this is happening to potentially thousands of children in captivity in these camps.

The current administration has bought shame onto the US and it's so grim to see relatively recent mistakes repeated on mass. Considering the US's crimes against Japanese/American people during and after WW2, this story sends a bitter message that, ultimately, history will inevitably repeat itself.

[arista]

Yes Wrong Word to call it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camps
The only Contraction camps
were killing everyone


Congress has to get Soap and Tooth brushes
for these Illegal children.

[Tom4784]

Yes Wrong Word to call it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camps
The only Contraction camps
were killing everyone


Congress has to get Soap and Tooth brushes
for these Illegal children.

Completely wrong there, Arista. The US itself employed concentration camps against Japanese american citizens. People don't have to die for it to be a concentration camp.

[arista]

Completely wrong there, Arista. The US itself employed concentration camps against Japanese American citizens. People don't have to die for it to be a concentration camp.


Yes during WW2.


But Everyone saying it is the Nazi owned word
a big error for the Democrats to use that term.
Debated on Bill Maher Show
SkyAtlanticHD /HBO Sunday

[GiRTh]

Dezzys right. They're classed as interment camps which is the same thing.

[bots]

it's a collection of captives in a small area known as a camp .... a concentration of people if you will .... hence ... concentration camp

[Beso]

Dezzys right. They're classed as interment camps which is the same thing.

Why not just call them that then?
Instead of the daily star like headline.:shrug:

[Matthew.]

https://media.giphy.com/media/key15M1FgU4LK9kJnW/giphy.gif

[Ammi]

...what she’s describing/the conditions of the facilities ...is not something we would ever have associated with the Western world...the USA has always been the leader of the Western world as well ...and so called ‘civilisation’...Trump shames those children, he shames his country...’...land of the free and the home of the brave...’...there is no bravery in targeting children...he’s a despicable human being/power abuser, who does because he can...

[arista]

They are called Detention Camps

[Ammi]

...when what they’re called becomes the thing, Arista...as opposed to what happens within them atm...then it’s a very sad world...children are not just being detained...they are being detained in horrendous conditions and some have lost their lives ...

[Liam-]

They are called Detention Camps

That’s what Trump and his Cronies want them to be called.

[Liam-]

I personally don’t care what they’re called, what I care about is that there are innocent children being held against their will, away from their parents in horrendous conditions, the Trump administration is now even arguing that they shouldn’t have to be made to let these kids wash and brush their teeth, it’s inhumain and they should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves, but they won’t be because they’re ghouls who just see these kids as stains on the US, it’s deplorable, I genuinely would be surprised if the kids are put to work next.

Everyone involved should be put in prison for crimes against humanity as far as I’m concerned.

[thesheriff443]

...what she’s describing/the conditions of the facilities ...is not something we would ever have associated with the Western world...the USA has always been the leader of the Western world as well ...and so called ‘civilisation’...Trump shames those children, he shames his country...’...land of the free and the home of the brave...’...there is no bravery in targeting children...he’s a despicable human being/power abuser, who does because he can...

He was legally voted into office like our politicians who as links in the chain allowed child sex grooming gangs to molest vulnerable girls for years.

We are part of the problem, humans giving power to humans to rule over humans.

It’s a lottery as which human you are.

[joeysteele]

...what she’s describing/the conditions of the facilities ...is not something we would ever have associated with the Western world...the USA has always been the leader of the Western world as well ...and so called ‘civilisation’...Trump shames those children, he shames his country...’...land of the free and the home of the brave...’...there is no bravery in targeting children...he’s a despicable human being/power abuser, who does because he can...



I agree totally.

It's really distressing the news about this.

As to what these camps are called, just put inhumane in front of camp.
It seems to describe the conditions and regime perfectly.

[Livia]

While the use of the term 'concentration camp' is factually correct, the use of the term is deliberately provocative. It intimates that these people are going through the same thing that people in WW2 concentration camps suffered and that simply isn't true. What's more, the use of the term diminishes it.

All that said...

Keeping people- any people - in those conditions is inhumane. If they really intend not allowing them in, then send them back. Keeping them penned in like animals is despicable and shames the USA as a country.

[arista]

While the use of the term 'concentration camp' is factually correct, the use of the term is deliberately provocative. It intimates that these people are going through the same thing that people in WW2 concentration camps suffered and that simply isn't true. What's more, the use of the term diminishes it.

All that said...

Keeping people- any people - in those conditions is inhumane. If they really intend not allowing them in, then send them back. Keeping them penned in like animals is despicable and shames the USA as a country.


Yes only the Democrats use that term.
and Left Wingers on USA TV do not like it.

[Tom4784]

Why not just call them that then?
Instead of the daily star like headline.:shrug:

Because I don't believe in using the term that the US coined to make their concentration camps in WW2 seem less then they were. Asian Americans were placed in concentration camps, that's the long and short of it.

[Tom4784]

While the use of the term 'concentration camp' is factually correct, the use of the term is deliberately provocative. It intimates that these people are going through the same thing that people in WW2 concentration camps suffered and that simply isn't true. What's more, the use of the term diminishes it.

All that said...

Keeping people- any people - in those conditions is inhumane. If they really intend not allowing them in, then send them back. Keeping them penned in like animals is despicable and shames the USA as a country.

Concentration camps predate WW2 though, they were used against Native Americans in the 1800's, in Africa as well.

While the term is most commonly associated with the Nazis, I don't think we should refrain from using it when it fits and it fits the definition here.

For almost ten years before Trump's administration, there wasn't a single child death in border custody, now there's been at least 7 we know about and that's not even touching on the death rate of adults. People are dying in these places.

[Oliver_W]

They're not imprisoned, they're free to leave at any time.

[GiRTh]

They're not imprisoned, they're free to leave at any time.Source? I was under the impression they were awaiting trial so must be under arrest. :shrug:

[bots]

They're not imprisoned, they're free to leave at any time.

incorrect

[Oliver_W]

incorrect

If they decide they no longer wish to migrate to the USA, they can go home.

[GiRTh]

If they decide they no longer wish to migrate to the USA, they can go home.They're under arrest, they cant go anywhere.

[Oliver_W]

+ of course they're not concentration camps, what is AOC drivelling about?

People aren't being imprisoned for their ethnicity, people attempting to cross the border are being held for processing; they're not being starved of resources as a punishment or because they're being killed soon, there's just so many trying to break in that there it's hard to meet the demand.

[GiRTh]

+ of course they're not concentration camps, what is AOC drivelling about?

People aren't being imprisoned for their ethnicity, people attempting to cross the border are being held for processing; they're not being starved of resources as a punishment or because they're being killed soon, there's just so many trying to break in that there it's hard to meet the demand.You're on to a different subject now. Where did you find out that they were free to leave?

[GiRTh]

So much outrage at them being called concentration camps but so little outrage for what is going on.

US border: Sixth death of migrant child in custody (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48375144)

[Mokka]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/wayfair-employees-plan-walkout-after-companys-sales-to-detention-centers/

Loving the solidarity of the wayfair employees today. Massive walk out to protest the selling of Wayfair furniture to create another detention facility.

[Oliver_W]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/wayfair-employees-plan-walkout-after-companys-sales-to-detention-centers/

Loving the solidarity of the wayfair employees today. Massive walk out to protest the selling of Wayfair furniture to create another detention facility.

What's the problem here? I thought the detention centres needed facilities?

[Mokka]

What's the problem here? I thought the detention centres needed facilities?

They need shutting down... not building another one

[GiRTh]

What's the problem here? I thought the detention centres needed facilities?What are you on about? I dont think you've fully grasped this story so go and have a re-read. :thumbs:

[Oliver_W]

They need shutting down... not building another one
They're needed as the migrants keep coming. If there were fewer migrants, another one wouldn't need to be built.

What are you on about? I dont think you've fully grasped this story so go and have a re-read. :thumbs:
Some employees took the day off work because they didn't like the fact their employer carried out a transaction, what's not to get?

[GiRTh]

Some employees took the day off work because they didn't like the fact their employer carried out a transaction, what's not to get?No you dont quite get the whole thing and thus this discussion is infuriating.

Lets go back to where you sourced that they were free to leave and now we're here and you're questioning the facilities in the facilities. I give up. You've officially beaten me. :shrug:

[Mokka]

They're needed as the migrants keep coming. If there were fewer migrants, another one wouldn't need to be built.


Some employees took the day off work because they didn't like the fact their employer carried out a transaction, what's not to get?

They aren't processing and turning people, or children, away... they are holding them indefinitely... or until death. That isn't something to support or encourage. I wouldn't want my paycheck to come from people willingly putting children in danger leading to their deaths.

[Oliver_W]

They aren't processing and turning people, or children, away... they are holding them indefinitely... or until death. That isn't something to support or encourage. I wouldn't want my paycheck to come from people willingly putting children in danger leading to their deaths.

But what if everyone boycotts the centres? Do you think the government would say "oh well, better put you all in social housing, right now!" No, wouldn't happen.

The people inside would go without.

They're gonna buy it from somewhere, may as well be you! If you're unhappy with getting a paycheck for that, donate the money to a relevant charity.

[GiRTh]

But what if everyone boycotts the centres? Do you think the government would say "oh well, better put you all in social housing, right now!" No, wouldn't happen.A fanciful scenario. Who's boycotting the camp? Businesses? :conf:

The people inside would go without.:conf:

They're gonna buy it from somewhere, may as well be you! If you're unhappy with getting a paycheck for that, donate the money to a relevant charity.Money's money I suppose.:shrug:

This is supposed to be the serious debates section but I see not one serious comment.

[Tom4784]

They're not imprisoned, they're free to leave at any time.

Oliver, do you know what 'detained' means?

[Tom4784]

If they decide they no longer wish to migrate to the USA, they can go home.

Oh Jesus Christ, it gets worse.

THEY. ARE. DETAINED. THEY. ARE. IN. THE. US'S. CUSTODY. THEY CAN'T. LEAVE. UNTIL. THEY. ARE. RELEASED.

There is no way you can cut this story to blame the children for this and it would take a vicious streak to attempt it. If you are more concerned with the terminology than the neglect taking place in these places then you are both missing the point and are on the wrong side of history.

One of the children died of dehydration....Dehydration in the US' custody... This whole situation is completely indefensible and the US should be ashamed, it's people should be screaming out for change and a lot of them are. This is horrific human rights abuse and to try to lessen that in anyway is just gross.

[Josy]

A fanciful scenario. Who's boycotting the camp? Businesses? :conf:

:conf:

Money's money I suppose.:shrug:

This is supposed to be the serious debates section but I see not one serious comment.

It's a serious debates section yes, meaning you will at times get comments and or threads that you highly disagree with or in your own words infuriate you but that doesnt mean it's any less of a serious opinion or reply just because it's an opposing view from your own, again it serious debates not serious agreements.

[GiRTh]

It's a serious debates section yes, meaning you will at times get comments and or threads that you highly disagree with or in your own words infuriate you but that doesnt mean it's any less of a serious opinion or reply just because it's an opposing view from your own, again it serious debates not serious agreements.Not agreeing. You will see thru out this thread that I have tired to engage said forum member on his false statements and fanciful scenarios. Its a big stretch to say this simply a disagreement. The said forum member has made little sense in this thread and hence why it is not a serious debate :thumbs:

[Josy]

Not agreeing. You will see thru out this thread that I have tired to engage said forum member on his false statements and fanciful scenarios. Its a big stretch to say this simply a disagreement. The said forum member has made little sense in this thread and hence why it is not a serious debate :thumbs:

So dont debate with them then?

Omit the posts that you mention and theres still plenty of serious comments posted in the thread, Dezzys, Ammis and Livias for example, rubbishing the entire thread wasnt necessary and only derails discussion.

[Tom4784]

It's a serious debates section yes, meaning you will at times get comments and or threads that you highly disagree with or in your own words infuriate you but that doesnt mean it's any less of a serious opinion or reply just because it's an opposing view from your own, again it serious debates not serious agreements.

There is an obvious difference between someone baiting and someone putting forth an insidious opinion. Oliver is just completely misinformed but certain posts by someone else are blatantly baiting.

[Josy]

There is an obvious difference between someone baiting and someone putting forth an insidious opinion. Oliver is just completely misinformed but certain posts by someone else are blatantly baiting.Yeah I removed some posts

[Tom4784]

Yeah I removed some posts

Thanks for that.

[GiRTh]

So dont debate with them then?

Omit the posts that you mention and theres still plenty of serious comments posted in the thread, Dezzys, Ammis and Livias for example, rubbishing the entire thread wasnt necessary and only derails discussion.I tried that and then another strange statement was made. I even made a show that I found this discussion, with its false statements, infuriating.

I'll agree my final comment was flippant but only my final comment.

Would you like to continue this over PM cuz I'm sure this is actually a genuine disagreement. I see an incorrect statement and I find myself having to challenge it.

[Oliver_W]

Oh Jesus Christ, it gets worse.

THEY. ARE. DETAINED. THEY. ARE. IN. THE. US'S. CUSTODY. THEY CAN'T. LEAVE. UNTIL. THEY. ARE. RELEASED.

Rep. Michael Burgess (R-Texas) on Monday said that migrant children at a facility in Texas are “free to leave at any time”.

“There’s not a lock on the door,” the lawmaker said. “Any child is free to leave at any time."

The Texas Republican defended conditions at the Trump administration’s facilities and said his experience was not as horrific as media reports claimed. (https://thehill.com/homenews/house/450160-gop-rep-children-are-free-to-leave-migrant-camps-at-any-time)

[Ammi]

...most are crossing the border to be with family so why are the children not given to the care of those families...surely that’s the most humane thing and the least strain on any resources ...what an awful man... the children could leave if they wanted to, there are no locks on the doors etc..yet when questioned further on that...all he did was to go into an open border rant...so easy to understand his stance on those children...of course the children can’t leave...they’re children, where on earth would they go..?...it’s up to the government to locate any families in the USA and to reunite them...there is nothing humane about what is happening in those camps atm...and to say ‘well children can leave through an unlocked door’ is staggering...he goes back to his home/his family/his comfort and sustenance each day...if those children were able to walk through those ‘open doors’...where on earth does he think they’re going to walk to and what are they going to walk to...where is their life..?...imbecile he is...imbecile in a pompous, privileged, Trump devised suit....

[GiRTh]

...most are crossing the border to be with family so why are the children not given to the care of those families...surely that’s the most humane thing and the least strain on any resources ...what an awful man... the children could leave if they wanted to, there are no locks on the doors etc..yet when questioned further on that...all he did was to go into an open border rant...so easy to understand his stance on those children...of course the children can’t leave...they’re children, where on earth would they go..?...it’s up to the government to locate any families in the USA and to reunite them...there is nothing humane about what is happening in those camps atm...and to say ‘well children can leave through an unlocked door’ is staggering...he goes back to his home/his family/his comfort and sustenance each day...if those children were able to walk through those ‘open doors’...where on earth does he think they’re going to walk to and what are they going to walk to...where is their life..?...imbecile he is...imbecile in a pompous, privileged, Trump devised suit....:clap1:

BRRlJ4-5ogcA totally biased account from the TYT , as usual but good points are made. :thumbs:

[AnnieK]

...most are crossing the border to be with family so why are the children not given to the care of those families...surely that’s the most humane thing and the least strain on any resources ...what an awful man... the children could leave if they wanted to, there are no locks on the doors etc..yet when questioned further on that...all he did was to go into an open border rant...so easy to understand his stance on those children...of course the children can’t leave...they’re children, where on earth would they go..?...it’s up to the government to locate any families in the USA and to reunite them...there is nothing humane about what is happening in those camps atm...and to say ‘well children can leave through an unlocked door’ is staggering...he goes back to his home/his family/his comfort and sustenance each day...if those children were able to walk through those ‘open doors’...where on earth does he think they’re going to walk to and what are they going to walk to...where is their life..?...imbecile he is...imbecile in a pompous, privileged, Trump devised suit....

Agree with everything in this post Ammi

[joeysteele]

...most are crossing the border to be with family so why are the children not given to the care of those families...surely that’s the most humane thing and the least strain on any resources ...what an awful man... the children could leave if they wanted to, there are no locks on the doors etc..yet when questioned further on that...all he did was to go into an open border rant...so easy to understand his stance on those children...of course the children can’t leave...they’re children, where on earth would they go..?...it’s up to the government to locate any families in the USA and to reunite them...there is nothing humane about what is happening in those camps atm...and to say ‘well children can leave through an unlocked door’ is staggering...he goes back to his home/his family/his comfort and sustenance each day...if those children were able to walk through those ‘open doors’...where on earth does he think they’re going to walk to and what are they going to walk to...where is their life..?...imbecile he is...imbecile in a pompous, privileged, Trump devised suit....

Brilliant post.
Nothing to add to it.
It covers the scene perfectly.

[GiRTh]

U6Fp0e0jBP0

[Ammi]

...it’ll be interesting to see if the images of the bodies of Oscar Alberto Martínez and his 23-month old daughter Angie Valeria lying face down and lifeless in the Rio Grande ...their heads together and wrapped in a black T-shirt... and her arm reaching out to her father in their last moments...will have any impact in this whole despicable inhumane situation...human beings being treated as if they’re worthless ...

[Mokka]

...most are crossing the border to be with family so why are the children not given to the care of those families...surely that’s the most humane thing and the least strain on any resources ...what an awful man... the children could leave if they wanted to, there are no locks on the doors etc..yet when questioned further on that...all he did was to go into an open border rant...so easy to understand his stance on those children...of course the children can’t leave...they’re children, where on earth would they go..?...it’s up to the government to locate any families in the USA and to reunite them...there is nothing humane about what is happening in those camps atm...and to say ‘well children can leave through an unlocked door’ is staggering...he goes back to his home/his family/his comfort and sustenance each day...if those children were able to walk through those ‘open doors’...where on earth does he think they’re going to walk to and what are they going to walk to...where is their life..?...imbecile he is...imbecile in a pompous, privileged, Trump devised suit....

Said perfectly :love:

[user104658]

...it’ll be interesting to see if the images of the bodies of Oscar Alberto Martínez and his 23-month old daughter Angie Valeria lying face down and lifeless in the Rio Grande ...their heads together and wrapped in a black T-shirt... and her arm reaching out to her father in their last moments...will have any impact in this whole despicable inhumane situation...human beings being treated as if they’re worthless ...

Sadly Ammi, I doubt it. The people who are OK with these camps won't bat an eyelid.

[Livia]

I'm not a supporter of these camps, they're a despicable way for one set of humans to treat another, it shames the USA. However, I uphold the idea that the Democrats have used the term "concentration camps" in a deliberately provocative and inflammatory way. Of course, I don't imagine everyone will agree with me, but I would urge you to google the pictures of the internment of Japanese people in the 40s taken by Ansel Adams (or any other photographer for that matter)... and compare those with any googled pictures of Nazi concentration camps and ask yourself if they bear any resemblance to each other.

Using the term 'concentration camps' may be semantically correct, but in my opinion it weakens the term and could give people the idea that those who suffered in Germany's concentration camps - and I don't mean just the Jews, I mean the gays, the gypsies, the disabled - went through no more than the Japanese internees did. Of around 120,000 Japanese internees, less than 2000 died while incarcerated and while I'm not saying that's acceptable, it's not indicative of what has become understood to be a "concentration camp". We can't let this stuff be minimised.

[thesheriff443]

Humans have the concentration span of a fish with subjects like this, read it move on to the next page, then it’s what am I having for tea?.

We just chew the fat on here, don’t matter how informed you are, how disgusted you, it will still be happening.

[thesheriff443]

We spend hundreds of thousands keeping a murderer alive but we let innocent kids die of starvation.

[Twosugars]

Humans have the concentration span of a fish with subjects like this, read it move on to the next page, then it’s what am I having for tea?.

We just chew the fat on here, don’t matter how informed you are, how disgusted you, it will still be happening.

True buy what can you do

[Shaun]

I'm not a supporter of these camps, they're a despicable way for one set of humans to treat another, it shames the USA. However, I uphold the idea that the Democrats have used the term "concentration camps" in a deliberately provocative and inflammatory way. Of course, I don't imagine everyone will agree with me, but I would urge you to google the pictures of the internment of Japanese people in the 40s taken by Ansel Adams (or any other photographer for that matter)... and compare those with any googled pictures of Nazi concentration camps and ask yourself if they bear any resemblance to each other.

Using the term 'concentration camps' may be semantically correct, but in my opinion it weakens the term and could give people the idea that those who suffered in Germany's concentration camps - and I don't mean just the Jews, I mean the gays, the gypsies, the disabled - went through no more than the Japanese internees did. Of around 120,000 Japanese internees, less than 2000 died while incarcerated and while I'm not saying that's acceptable, it's not indicative of what has become understood to be a "concentration camp". We can't let this stuff be minimised.

I agree with you in a sense but I would still argue that the extremity and the horror of the usage of concentration camps by Nazi Germany is more semantically appropriate to be labelled as "the Holocaust" more than a complete threshold over the concept of concentration camps itself. Whilst even the most shallow and uninformed observer of WW2 history would associate "concentration camps" with "the deaths of 6m+ Jews" it is still a grotesque situation for the US to find themselves in, especially with the knowledge and supposed wisdom of such horrific treatments of prisoners in the past.

Naturally it's a phrasing that is intended to provoke outrage and disgust but having seen photographs of some of their conditions I don't think that it's really being done falsely or with the intention of misleading people.

But to me it's a little like someone arguing that someone who's killed 10 people shouldn't be called a mass murderer because Pol Pot killed 2 million or so Cambodians. We don't need to witness the literal worst ever example of a phenomenon to label it that.

[Tom4784]

I'm not a supporter of these camps, they're a despicable way for one set of humans to treat another, it shames the USA. However, I uphold the idea that the Democrats have used the term "concentration camps" in a deliberately provocative and inflammatory way. Of course, I don't imagine everyone will agree with me, but I would urge you to google the pictures of the internment of Japanese people in the 40s taken by Ansel Adams (or any other photographer for that matter)... and compare those with any googled pictures of Nazi concentration camps and ask yourself if they bear any resemblance to each other.

Using the term 'concentration camps' may be semantically correct, but in my opinion it weakens the term and could give people the idea that those who suffered in Germany's concentration camps - and I don't mean just the Jews, I mean the gays, the gypsies, the disabled - went through no more than the Japanese internees did. Of around 120,000 Japanese internees, less than 2000 died while incarcerated and while I'm not saying that's acceptable, it's not indicative of what has become understood to be a "concentration camp". We can't let this stuff be minimised.

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. As I said before, concentration camps existed before WW2 and we shouldn't be hesitant to call out other instances of concentration camps being used just because of the past, the horrors of the past should encourage us to speak out against it, in fact. After all, when the Nazi concentration camps were first introduced, they weren't death camps, that is what they became when they went unchallenged.

Call them what they are, concentration camps and shame the administration for it. Being hesitant to say what they are only allows them to go unchallenged.

[JoshBB]

The lack of compassion for these poor kids from some is really disturbing tbh (mostly the 'Trump can do no wrong' MAGA brigade), I can't wait for him to be booted out of office in 2020 and someone sane can come in and sort this out.

Easy to see how fascism rose in the 1930-40s looking at today

[Oliver_W]

I'm not a supporter of these camps, they're a despicable way for one set of humans to treat another, it shames the USA. However, I uphold the idea that the Democrats have used the term "concentration camps" in a deliberately provocative and inflammatory way. Of course, I don't imagine everyone will agree with me, but I would urge you to google the pictures of the internment of Japanese people in the 40s taken by Ansel Adams (or any other photographer for that matter)... and compare those with any googled pictures of Nazi concentration camps and ask yourself if they bear any resemblance to each other.

Using the term 'concentration camps' may be semantically correct, but in my opinion it weakens the term and could give people the idea that those who suffered in Germany's concentration camps - and I don't mean just the Jews, I mean the gays, the gypsies, the disabled - went through no more than the Japanese internees did. Of around 120,000 Japanese internees, less than 2000 died while incarcerated and while I'm not saying that's acceptable, it's not indicative of what has become understood to be a "concentration camp". We can't let this stuff be minimised.
Yeah as AOC is American she was probably using the term from an American perspective rather than the European one. To the Americans it probably doesn't bring to mind the same images.

[Livia]

I agree with you in a sense but I would still argue that the extremity and the horror of the usage of concentration camps by Nazi Germany is more semantically appropriate to be labelled as "the Holocaust" more than a complete threshold over the concept of concentration camps itself. Whilst even the most shallow and uninformed observer of WW2 history would associate "concentration camps" with "the deaths of 6m+ Jews" it is still a grotesque situation for the US to find themselves in, especially with the knowledge and supposed wisdom of such horrific treatments of prisoners in the past.

Naturally it's a phrasing that is intended to provoke outrage and disgust but having seen photographs of some of their conditions I don't think that it's really being done falsely or with the intention of misleading people.

But to me it's a little like someone arguing that someone who's killed 10 people shouldn't be called a mass murderer because Pol Pot killed 2 million or so Cambodians. We don't need to witness the literal worst ever example of a phenomenon to label it that.

I agree with you too, in a sense. I wouldn't want to minimise what the internees in the USA are going through. It was the provocative use of the word. And yes, we have the Holocaust. And most people remember the six million Jews, but Jews make up only about a third of the total deaths during the Holocaust. I don't think it was entirely my faith made me object to the word although obviously part of it.

Good post though.

[Twosugars]

I'd argue that nazi camps should be called death camps rather than concentration camps. That was their raison d'etre, extermination not detention. Very often new shipments of people were herded to gas chambers without setting foot in barracks.

[lime]

I'd argue that nazi camps should be called death camps rather than concentration camps. That was their raison d'etre, extermination not detention. Very often new shipments of people were herded to gas chambers without setting foot in barracks.

I would agree.Concertaton camps existing long before WW2.We Boers were held in them during the Boer War..we staved and were beaten during this time...the Boer women were raped and murdered if they didn't disclose where their brothers or husbands were.....There is a difference between Death camps and consertration camps

[lime]

The lack of compassion for these poor kids from some is really disturbing tbh (mostly the 'Trump can do no wrong' MAGA brigade), I can't wait for him to be booted out of office in 2020 and someone sane can come in and sort this out.

Easy to see how fascism rose in the 1930-40s looking at today

But he won't be booted out of office...This is a small forum but check how many support him.We in Ireland are listening to the hustings...and it it nothing short of bizzare that these guys are never challlenged on facts....Why does the British media ...and I don't want to say they should be challenged on feelings...WHY for the love of all things sacred are they not challenged on facts???.

We have all given up in the EU now...We respect you want no deal..The DUP and ERG want no deal ...so why is this buffon talking about a deal ...So frustrating ..Don't we all just want to move on

[GiRTh]

Canadian cartoonist loses job after illustration of Trump went viral (https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/30/media/canadian-cartoon-trump/index.html)

[GiRTh]

1143931384265883650

[Shaun]

And most people remember the six million Jews, but Jews make up only about a third of the total deaths during the Holocaust.

Is that true? I always assumed it was a 90-95% case, but I guess political opponents and other races / non-Jewish eastern Europeans would've been a large portion too.

[Beso]

1143931384265883650

how disgusting is that...

[Livia]

Is that true? I always assumed it was a 90-95% case, but I guess political opponents and other races / non-Jewish eastern Europeans would've been a large portion too.

Maybe Jews make up slightly more than a third... but much less than half.

https://bje.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/WWII-HolocaustDeaths-Pie-All.svg_.png

[Livia]

how disgusting is that...

Not a fan of Trump. not in any way, shape or form... but that is a disgusting cartoon.

[Kazanne]

how disgusting is that...

And some people lap this **** up .

[Nicky91]

Not a fan of Trump. not in any way, shape or form... but that is a disgusting cartoon.

agreed, i'm myself usually liking cartoons in our tabloids but they should be kept funny, and this one is quite disgusting

we also have a comic in our magazines here called ''jan jans & kinderen (children)'' also more in a funny way about all sorts of things being shown in news daily


but this De Adder (what is a bit dutch last name btw) he's quite edgy and here he crossed that line of funny into unfunny and disgusting

[Liam-]

The cartoon is disgusting, but that’s the point, it’s showing Trump’s and the average right-winger’s contempt and lack of empathy for these people, so in that case, it’s a brilliant piece of art.

[Livia]

The cartoon is disgusting, but that’s the point, it’s showing Trump’s and the average right-winger’s contempt and lack of empathy for these people, so in that case, it’s a brilliant piece of art.

The average right winger? The average? I'm on the right, I don't support what's happening in those camps and no one I know supports them either. I'm married to an American who has no interest in living there while Trump is in the Whitehouse. And frankly Liam, lumping everyone on the right into a gaggle of Nazis is insulting.

[bots]

the whole point of cartoons is to exaggerate reality, and that's what's happened in this case. Trump may not step over an actual dead body, but he sure doesn't give a **** either.

It's a cartoon that lacks taste for sure, but I would choose people getting upset at a cartoon over another immigrant dying in an interment camp

[Liam-]

The average right winger? The average? I'm on the right, I don't support what's happening in those camps and no one I know supports them either. I'm married to an American who has no interest in living there while Trump is in the Whitehouse. And frankly Liam, lumping everyone on the right into a gaggle of Nazis is insulting.

I was on about American right wingers, but sure let’s make it about you, it’s good you don’t feel that way, but if you ask a collection of republicans and other right wingers, the average response would most certainly be severely flippant and lacking any form of sympathy.

I didn’t mention nazis, me thinks you’re trying to inflate my comment into something it blatantly wasn’t and I find that insulting.

[Livia]

the whole point of cartoons is to exaggerate reality, and that's what's happened in this case. Trump may not step over an actual dead body, but he sure doesn't give a **** either.

It's a cartoon that lacks taste for sure, but I would choose people getting upset at a cartoon over another immigrant dying in an interment camp

Well, that migrant and his daughter didn't die in a camp. It was a tragic death... but no one forced him into the river with his child. He made the decision to get into the water knowing the risk. And now his wife is left a widow with a dead daughter. They interviewed his mother in his hometown, he left for economic reasons and made that choice knowing how difficult it is entering the USA illegally. I feel sympathy for him, but most of my sympathy is for the little girl who had no choice but to trust her father's judgement. And here's a cartoon of Trump, about to step over their dead bodies. Trump, as odious a creature as he is, had no hand in the death of that father and child.

[Livia]

I was on about American right wingers, but sure let’s make it about you, it’s good you don’t feel that way, but if you ask a collection of republicans and other right wingers, the average response would most certainly be severely flippant and lacking any form of sympathy.

I didn’t mention nazis, me thinks you’re trying to inflate my comment into something it blatantly wasn’t and I find that insulting.

You lost me after the first sentence. I enjoy debating with you Liam, and with lots of people with whom I disagree, but I don't feel I can when you're making statements like the emboldened statement and thinking you're debating.

[Nicky91]

Well, that migrant and his daughter didn't die in a camp. It was a tragic death... but no one forced him into the river with his child. He made the decision to get into the water knowing the risk. And now his wife is left a widow with a dead daughter. They interviewed his mother in his hometown, he left for economic reasons and made that choice knowing how difficult it is entering the USA illegally. I feel sympathy for him, but most of my sympathy is for the little girl who had no choice but to trust her father's judgement. And here's a cartoon of Trump, about to step over their dead bodies. Trump, as odious a creature as he is, had no hand in the death of that father and child.

yes but the thoughts of having a better life in USA are quite too hard to resist, my sympathies are also for him but also for that little girl

getting back at the better life in usa statement

1. possible more chance at work, better salary

2. a chance for his daughter to have a good education at a proper school

[Livia]

yes but the thoughts of having a better life in USA are quite too hard to resist, my sympathies are also for him but also for that little girl

getting back at the better life in usa statement

1. possible more chance at work, better salary

2. a chance for his daughter to have a good education at a proper school

I understand that, but it isn't a right for people to travel from one country to another illegally even if it is for a better life. All the developed countries would be completely overrun, there won't be enough doctors, schools, jobs, food even. Are they going to say, hey, let's let everyone in case someone else drowns.

[Nicky91]

I understand that, but it isn't a right for people to travel from one country to another illegally even if it is for a better life. All the developed countries would be completely overrun, there won't be enough doctors, schools, jobs, food even. Are they going to say, hey, let's let everyone in case someone else drowns.

true, the countries where they are from should make it a must to solve their problems for their people have better lives in their own country, rather than risking their lives to go to other countries for that better life

[Livia]

true, the countries where they are from should make it a must to solve their problems for their people have better lives in their own country, rather than risking their lives to go to other countries for that better life

I'd agree with that. Lots of South American countries are overrun by drugs gangs and/or a corrupt military and police. I wish I knew the answer.

[Liam-]

You lost me after the first sentence. I enjoy debating with you Liam, and with lots of people with whom I disagree, but I don't feel I can when you're making statements like the emboldened statement and thinking you're debating.

Well if you read my statement and it didn’t fit to you, then you should be aware that you’re not the average right winger that I was referring to so it shouldn’t have been a problem, I don’t think you’re one those monsters out there that sees these people as nothing but ‘illegal aliens’ (a term which makes my skin crawl just having to write it ugh) - I’ve always said it, if I mean something personally to someone, I won’t hide behind veiled generalisations, i’ll say it out right :laugh:

I’ll stand by my point though, the average right wing Trumpist will have zero sympathy, empathy or care for these people and that’s what the picture was depicting, perfectly imo.

[Livia]

Well if you read my statement and it didn’t fit to you, then you should be aware that you’re not the average right winger that I was referring to so it shouldn’t have been a problem, I don’t think you’re one those monsters out there that sees these people as nothing but ‘illegal aliens’ (a term which makes my skin crawl just having to write it ugh) - I’ve always said it, if I mean something personally to someone, I won’t hide behind veiled generalisations, i’ll say it out right :laugh:

I’ll stand by my point though, the average right wing Trumpist will have zero sympathy, empathy or care for these people and that’s what the picture was depicting, perfectly imo.

Well, I appreciate that you'll say it outright. I hate assumptions being made about how I will feel about something based on the knowledge that I lean to the right.

There are monsters everywhere. And there is a large concentration of them amongst Trump supporters. While I don't think illegal aliens (I work in international law, so I'm quite used to that term...) should be treated in a way that infringes their Human Rights, no country has to take everyone who tries to get in. As Nicky said, governments in South America need to get a ****ing grip before all their young people try to leave.

[Liam-]

1145929967173283842

The differences in those two ‘camps’ are staggering.

How can anybody think that those conditions are anywhere near being acceptable or right? Especially in the ‘superpower of the world’ or the ‘greatest’ country in the world, there is absolutely no need for these innocent children to be living in those horrendous conditions, the Trump administration, his republican lackies and anybody that defends this should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

[arista]

"anywhere near being acceptable or right?"

They are not acceptable
But they not Nazi Concentration Camps

[Liam-]

"anywhere near being acceptable or right?"

They are not acceptable
But they not Nazi Concentration Camps

No, they’re Trump concentration camps

[Livia]

The differences in those two ‘camps’ are staggering... etc etc.



My work is concentrated in the Middle east, mostly Israel but I also work quite a bit in Jordan, mainly at the Za’atari refugee camp. There are over 80,000 people there. I'm not going to pretend that conditions are perfect, they can be volatile just like any city with 80,000+ citizens, but there is enough medical attention for everyone, there are schools, it's powered by solar energy and families are not generally split up, unless there is some unsavoury reason. People often think about the Middle East as being backward thinking, hostile, particularly to other religions but it's not been my experience.

Compare that with the conditions that refugees in the USA face and it makes me wonder which is the more backward thinking, hostile country? Even if the refugees are entering illegally, they still have to be treated like human beings and not cattle, and sadly, looking at the Trump support, I think we're in for another term of his madness.

[Livia]

No, they’re Trump concentration camps

I'm still not happy with that term. No one's being gassed. No one's being starved and forced to work until they die of exhaustion. The camp is despicable enough without using inflammatory language to describe it... in my opinion.

[Liam-]

I'm still not happy with that term. No one's being gassed. No one's being starved and forced to work until they die of exhaustion. The camp is despicable enough without using inflammatory language to describe it... in my opinion.

Concentration camps aren’t just about gassing people or mass execution, they’re camps used to keep people as political prisoners in dire conditions, which is what’s happening here.

If it makes people listen and take notice, then I don’t really see the issue with the word use, but then, I haven’t got that sort of thing in my history so

[Livia]

Concentration camps aren’t just about gassing people or mass execution, they’re camps used to keep people as political prisoners in dire conditions, which is what’s happening here.

If it makes people listen and take notice, then I don’t really see the issue with the word use, but then, I haven’t got that sort of thing in my history so

I understand what a concentration camp is. Like I understand what genocide is. Using either of those words in the wrong context, to me, dilutes and minimises the occasions when those terrible words are used correctly. Here the term has been used for shock tactics. It's also misleading. I really don't think people need to exaggerate the dire conditions in there, they're shocking enough.

[Tom4784]

how disgusting is that...

More disgusted by a cartoon satirizing the apathy towards these people's plights than their plights themselves? Not surprised.

[Tom4784]

More reports are coming out at a regular pace now, people forced to drink toilet water for the amusement of the guards, babies and pregnant women forced to sleep on rocks outside, the people in charge basically saying 'boys will be boys' to congress people visiting as a response to the abuses inflicted on these people by the guards etc.

This chapter will be yet another dark stain upon the US for years to come. If you are not deeply opposed to the goings on happening in those concentration camps then you stand on the wrong side of history.

[Beso]

More disgusted by a cartoon satirizing the apathy towards these people's plights than their plights themselves? Not surprised.

Another lie and personal attack.....

[arista]

1143931384265883650



That Cartoonist got Fired.

[Beso]

That Cartoonist got Fired.

I can't say I'm surprised, using a tragic image like that...discusting.

[Marsh.]

1143931384265883650

The most accurate portrait of Trump since his election.

[Twosugars]

1143931384265883650

Accurate imo

[Beso]

The lack of compassion for these poor kids from some is really disturbing tbh (mostly the 'Trump can do no wrong' MAGA brigade), I can't wait for him to be booted out of office in 2020 and someone sane can come in and sort this out.

Easy to see how fascism rose in the 1930-40s looking at today


https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/06/trump-child-immigrant-detention-no-toothpaste-obama.html


Many great presidents have tried and failed in the past..with the numbers arriving dramatically increasing I can't see anyone being able to "sort it"

[Beso]

No, they’re Trump concentration camps

Didn't bush build them?

[Beso]

https://thegolfnewsnet.com/golfnewsnetteam/2019/06/16/how-many-times-president-donald-trump-played-golf-in-office-103836/



Is this to much golf?

[Marsh.]

Didn't bush build them?

When will Trump's wall?

[Beso]

When will Trump's wall?

Before I reply, can you be bothered?

[Marsh.]

Before I reply, can you be bothered?

To build a wall?

Maybe on Saturday?

[Beso]

To build a wall?

Maybe on Saturday?

Why you building a wall?

[Marsh.]

Why you building a wall?

You responded to my post about Trump's wall.

If it's about something unrelated, feel free to PM.

[Beso]

You responded to my post about Trump's wall.

If it's about something unrelated, feel free to PM.

Sorry, Liam....my mistake I thought you were marsh for a while :shrug:

[Marsh.]

Great. Moving on.

[user104658]

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/06/trump-child-immigrant-detention-no-toothpaste-obama.html


Many great presidents have tried and failed in the past..with the numbers arriving dramatically increasing I can't see anyone being able to "sort it"

Part of the reason that the numbers have surged is because of Trump's bleating about his wall / cracking down on immigration, and an impression south of the border that this is the "last chance" to relocate to the US. A cyclical self-fulfilling prophecy. He says immigration is out of control and needs to be halted immediately, triggering a surge of immigration, which he points at and says "See, here they come!".

[Kizzy]

What can I say? The guy is maniacal.. this whole period in history is turning very dark. If I let myself dwell on it too long its frightening.

[Beso]

Part of the reason that the numbers have surged is because of Trump's bleating about his wall / cracking down on immigration, and an impression south of the border that this is the "last chance" to relocate to the US. A cyclical self-fulfilling prophecy. He says immigration is out of control and needs to be halted immediately, triggering a surge of immigration, which he points at and says "See, here they come!".



It will all sort itself out in the end when the wall is built, which can only be a good thing if the state of the camps are anything to go by.

[Tom4784]

Another lie and personal attack.....

How is it a lie? You've shown more disgust towards that cartoon (while completely missing it's point) which just so happens to be critical of Trump then you have towards the human rights' crisis that inspired it.

[bots]

There is no way this should be considered acceptable in America in 2019



https://i.imgur.com/0Et1lU4.png

https://i.imgur.com/LO2tmLF.png

[Tom4784]

There is no way this should be considered acceptable in America in 2019



https://i.imgur.com/0Et1lU4.png

https://i.imgur.com/LO2tmLF.png


People have grown to apathetic, sadly.

A few years ago, the world mourned for a migrant child that washed up dead on the beach, that's happened again in the US and people are more outraged over a critical cartoon of Trump then the dead migrants.

Stories like this only reaffirm that I never want to bring children into this world.

[Beso]

How is it a lie? You've shown more disgust towards that cartoon (while completely missing it's point) which just so happens to be critical of Trump then you have towards the human rights' crisis that inspired it.

Again.....that is just not true....you just didn't see the tears running down my cheeks when I saw that picture. ..

It's not something I want to stare at as it saddens me deeply..or discuss really because again it's just going to be tit for tat about trump or Americas policies....

It does infuriate me that the cartoonist can use the image to push a political agenda though..but for you to say I'm more outraged about the cartoon than the picture is ****ing slanderous..:nono:

[Tom4784]

Again.....that is just not true....you just didn't see the tears running down my cheeks when I saw that picture. ..

It's not something I want to stare at as it saddens me deeply..or discuss really because again it's just going to be tit for tat about trump or Americas policies....

It does infuriate me that the cartoonist can use the image to push a political agenda though..but for you to say I'm more outraged about the cartoon than the picture is ****ing slanderous..:nono:

Silence is acceptance for this **** to continue. While these human rights abuses are carrying on, the eyes of the world should be on the US and there should be an endless chorus of outrage at these concentration camps.

Calling people taking issue with this atrocious series of events 'tit for tat about Trump' is just ridiculous. He is the president, is he not? It's HIS administration, no? This kind of **** did not happen under any other president in recent memory. Before Trump's presidency, a child had not died in border custody for over ten years I believe but now at least 7 children have died in Trump's presidency alone, In Obama's presdency, families were only split up if the authorities suspected that the children's guardians were in fact human traffickers or if they believed the children were in danger. This only happened a dozen or so times, not thousands like it's been under Trump's regime. Immigrants are being seen as less than human by the people who should be protecting them, they are being made to drink out of the toilet for the guards' amusement. There are pictures of the conditions inside these places and testimony from people sent to investigate whether these camps have flouted the Flores Agreement and their findings have been the same. This is gross human rights abuse and it is absolutely the fault of the administration.

This is not an issue in which there's a middle road to take. This will be one of those times in which you must choose which side of history you want to be on. Defending Trump or trying to excise him of fault and blame is paramount to condoning these concentration camps. It is his administration that is running the country and there was a lot of people that said something like this was going to happen if he was elected and it has. You can either support Trump and accept these concentration camps and the abuse happening within them or you can oppose what's going on and hold the administration responsible for such a disregard of human rights.

It's a black and white choice, there's no shades of grey in this subject. Human rights abuse is human rights abuse.

[Beso]

Dezzy...all the children that died, died in a hospital...due to disease...not in a camp..I stopped reading.


Not taken to the hospital by the parents in one case I may add in my edit...but one of Trump's lot who noticed the child was unwell.

[Tom4784]

Dezzy...all the children that died, died in a hospital...due to disease...not in a camp..I stopped reading.


Not taken to the hospital by the parents in one case I may add in my edit...but one of Trump's lot who noticed the child was unwell.

So you choose to stand on the wrong side of history, so be it. It's not down to me to change your mind if you want to ignore the plethora of abuses taking place at these camps, it's not down to me to make you see that blaming the parents for these conditions is ultimately folly. It's not down to me to invoke some empathy in you.

[Livia]

Dezzy...all the children that died, died in a hospital...due to disease...not in a camp..I stopped reading.


Not taken to the hospital by the parents in one case I may add in my edit...but one of Trump's lot who noticed the child was unwell.

Face it parm, you're just not virtuous enough to be on this thread. And despite all the work being put in, I'm pretty sure that most people are going to continue to think you're a good bloke, rather than the monster you're being portrayed as.

[Tom4784]

Pence has apparently visited the concentration camp and has said all was fine while it's inmates chanted 'no showers' at him.

Micheal Scott More, a journalist held by Somali pirates for months has also responded to the lack of care from the US by revealing that the Somali pirates that held him captive gave him access to soap.

When prisoners of pirates are treated better than immigrants in US custody..... It's just unreal.

[Beso]

Face it parm, you're just not virtuous enough to be on this thread. And despite all the work being put in, I'm pretty sure that most people are going to continue to think you're a good bloke, rather than the monster you're being portrayed as.

Thanks Livia just saw this... ..sometimes I do wonder about that.

[Liam-]

Pence has apparently visited the concentration camp and has said all was fine while it's inmates chanted 'no showers' at him.

Micheal Scott More, a journalist held by Somali pirates for months has also responded to the lack of care from the US by revealing that the Somali pirates that held him captive gave him access to soap.

When prisoners of pirates are treated better than immigrants in US custody..... It's just unreal.

The denial about the sheer lack of compassion or humanity these people are being held with is indefensible, if someone’s first thought when they see people, especially kids crammed into cages is ‘well, they shouldn’t be here anyway’ then they’re imo, morally bankrupt and there’s a staggering amount of that happening in America right now

[Tom4784]

The denial about the sheer lack of compassion or humanity these people are being held with is indefensible, if someone’s first thought when they see people, especially kids crammed into cages is ‘well, they shouldn’t be here anyway’ then they’re imo, morally bankrupt and there’s a staggering amount of that happening in America right now

I've said it a few times and I'll say it again, this will be a human rights abuse incident which will haunt the US for years to come. It is internment all over again and the people involved will forever have a legacy that revolves around these concentration camps.

It's a moment in which people must decide which side of history they wish to stand on.

[Twosugars]

Associated Press


A 69-year-old man armed with a rifle threw incendiary devices at an immigration jail in Washington state early on Saturday morning, then was found dead after four police officers arrived and opened fire, authorities said.

The Tacoma police department said the officers responded about 4am to the privately run Tacoma Northwest Detention Centre, a US Department of Homeland Security detention facility that holds migrants pending deportation proceedings.

The detention centre has also held immigration-seeking parents separated from their children under Donald Trump’s “zero tolerance” policy, an effort meant to deter illegal immigration





Trump anti-immigrant rhetoric bears ugly fruit

[Livia]

Migrants still arriving in the USA at a pace. What do we think the USA should do with them? They can't just open the doors, they'd be overrun. So, what's the solution? Send them back? Let them in without checks? What's the answer?

The governments of the countries the migrants are leaving should surely bear some responsibility. People are heading for the USA aware of the migrant camps, and still they think it's a better prospect that staying put. And what's more, they risk not only their own lives but the lives of small children... don't they bear some of the responsibility for the children who die on the journey?

If the migrants weren't pouring in, the camps wouldn't exist. So... what's the answer?

[Oliver_W]

The solution would be to build a wall. If they can't cross the border, there's no need for all this.

[Livia]

The solution would be to build a wall. If they can't cross the border, there's no need for all this.

I'm surprised they haven't thought of that. Oh, hang on...

[Oliver_W]

I'm surprised they haven't thought of that. Oh, hang on...

I wonder if most of the opposition to the idea is based on who's suggesting it, rather than the idea itself... I'm sure we all have our issues with #45, but a wall would help solve the issue.

[Livia]

I wonder if most of the opposition to the idea is based on who's suggesting it, rather than the idea itself... I'm sure we all have our issues with #45, but a wall would help solve the issue.

I think Trump's an idiot. I don't think he's Satan incarnate. And I agree, if someone else had come up with it, it would have been more accepted.

[Tom4784]

Migrants still arriving in the USA at a pace. What do we think the USA should do with them? They can't just open the doors, they'd be overrun. So, what's the solution? Send them back? Let them in without checks? What's the answer?

The governments of the countries the migrants are leaving should surely bear some responsibility. People are heading for the USA aware of the migrant camps, and still they think it's a better prospect that staying put. And what's more, they risk not only their own lives but the lives of small children... don't they bear some of the responsibility for the children who die on the journey?

If the migrants weren't pouring in, the camps wouldn't exist. So... what's the answer?

The answer is for the US to do what it agreed to when the Flores Agreement came into effect in the 90's and uphold the human rights of immigrants. Troubles causing spikes in immigration from South America is nothing new, immigration crises are nothing new yet every president since the Flores Agreement came into effect has managed to uphold it. This administration has failed where other administrations have not and if standards can be upheld in the midst of a financial worldwide crisis then Trump has no excuse.

This is a mess of this administration's own making.

Your suggestion that the countries of which these people are leaving should 'do something' is quite ridiculous. You can't stop someone from leaving a country of their own accord unless they've broken a law within the country. When you look at countries that actively prevent it's people from leaving, you're left with places like North Korea.... Are you suggesting that these countries should take cues from dictatorships?

Finally your decision to blame people for trying to find a better life for their family by leaving places beset with violence or issues that endanger them is just plain gross. Human rights abuse by the US is not the fault of immigrants but the people who have them in custody and aren't doing the bare minimum to guarantee their health or security.

Blaming the parents for their children being taken away by the border services and having them die in their custody is just gross and inhumane. You are trying to rationalise these concentration camps by placing the blame on anything other than the administration running the show and the border services that are committing these atrocities.

[Tom4784]

A physical wall solves nothing, most of the smuggling of drugs and illegal goods happen through legal entryways and a physical wall can be traversed over or under and the wall wouldn't prevent the issue that there's not enough manpower to cover it all.

I remember a republican governer of one of the largest border areas pretty much ****ting on the idea of a wall a few months ago. He suggested taking a more digital approach. Spend less money on brick and mortar and spend more money on surveillance equipment and hiring people to man the borders more effectively.

[Vicky.]

Pence has apparently visited the concentration camp and has said all was fine while it's inmates chanted 'no showers' at him.


Sounds about right. I seriously hate how any treatment of immigrants and their kids is apparently ok, because they are Very Bad People for wanting a better life for them and their kids. Because of course, noone criticizing would ever try to seek a decent life had they been born somewhere where..well life is crap in comparison.

[bots]

One of Trumps clubs was raided by ICE yesterday and there weren't enough staff left after the raid to run the place .... he has no objection to using illegal labour when it's cheap :idc:

[Oliver_W]

A physical wall solves nothing, most of the smuggling of drugs and illegal goods happen through legal entryways and a physical wall can be traversed over or under and the wall wouldn't prevent the issue

The border fence in Israel cut illegal immigration by 99% (https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/feb/13/ron-johnson/border-fence-israel-cut-illegal-immigration-99-per/), Hungary found erecting a border wall cut illegal immigration by a similar % (https://en.s4c.news/2018/11/02/__trashed-3/), and Bulgaria's border wall saw illegals decrease seven-fold (https://www.novinite.com/articles/168926/Turkey%e2%80%99s+Ambassador+to+Bulgaria+Voices+Dis satisfaction+with+Border+Fence).

[Twosugars]

One of Trumps clubs was raided by ICE yesterday and there weren't enough staff left after the raid to run the place .... he has no objection to using illegal labour when it's cheap :idc:

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[arista]

Reported (CNN HD)
Today all over USA
Ice is to remove loads of "Documented" illegal migrants

Not New Orleans Zone
due to bad weather.

The 9 Zones expected Ice Raids today :
The I.C.E. agents can break into in a Church Sanctuary
to remove a "Documented" Illegal Migrant

San Francisco
Los Angeles
Denver
Huston
Chicago
Atlanta
Miami
Baltimore
New York.

[bots]

Donald Trump aimed a controversial attack at “the Squad” on Sunday, saying the four progressive Democratic congresswomen who have clashed with their own party establishment should “go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came”.

“You can’t leave fast enough,” he added.

Trump did not name his targets but the high-profile members of “the Squad” are Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York; Ayanna Pressley of Massachusetts; Rashida Tlaib of Michigan; and Ilhan Omar of Minnesota.

Only Omar, who is from Somalia, was not born in America. Pressley is African American, Tlaib was born to Palestinian immigrants and Ocasio-Cortez comes from a New York-Puerto Rican family.

Tlaib responded by saying Trump “needs to be impeached”.

Bernie Sanders was among those who called the attack racist.

“When I call the president a racist,” the Vermont senator wrote, “this is what I’m talking about.”

Nihad Awad, national executive director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, said in a statement: “If Trump shouted the same thing at a Muslim woman wearing hijab in a Walmart, he might be arrested.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jul/14/trump-squad-tlaib-omar-pressley-ocasio-cortez

[Oliver_W]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jul/14/trump-squad-tlaib-omar-pressley-ocasio-cortez

To be fair I sometimes wonder if AOC even knows she has a congressional district, she should address local issues when she's not too busy grandstanding or supporting loony ideas like the Green New Deal...

[bots]

To be fair I sometimes wonder if AOC even knows she has a congressional district, she should address local issues when she's not too busy grandstanding or supporting loony ideas like the Green New Deal...

So no thoughts on the racist, they can go back to where they came from comment?

[Tom4784]

To be fair I sometimes wonder if AOC even knows she has a congressional district, she should address local issues when she's not too busy grandstanding or supporting loony ideas like the Green New Deal...

'AOC should do this and that and when she does that, I'm gonna complain and say she should be doing something else!'

The typical criticism aimed at AOC.

The fact that you've said nothing when it comes to Trump's utterly racist comments speaks louder than words.

[Oliver_W]

What did he say that was racist? It seems clear he was referring to their congressional districts, not their "original countries" ...

[Tom4784]

What did he say that was racist? It seems clear he was referring to their congressional districts, not their "original countries" ...

Except that is bull****.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1150381394234941448?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-35495538391966665885.ampproject.net%2F190702232258 0%2Fframe.html

He was talking about countries to several american members of congress who are descended from immigrants. It is racism, pure and simple. You can either defend it for what it is or speak against it but you cannot misrepresent his own words in order to defend him.

[Beso]

Except that is bull****.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1150381394234941448?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-35495538391966665885.ampproject.net%2F190702232258 0%2Fframe.html

He was talking about countries to several american members of congress who are descended from immigrants. It is racism, pure and simple. You can either defend it for what it is or speak against it but you cannot misrepresent his own words in order to defend him.




I don't for one second believe that is a genuine trump twitter account.

[user104658]

I don't for one second believe that is a genuine trump twitter account.It is his confirmed account Parm, that's what the blue tick means.

[GiRTh]

I don't for one second believe that is a genuine trump twitter account.Believe it cuz it is.

[Beso]

It is his confirmed account Parm, that's what the blue tick means.

Thank God for that..I thought it was an imposter.

He is spot on..after viewing the machete killings from the drug gangs in these countries and the revenge machettebkillibgs from the vigilante gangs opposeD to the drug gangs..he is right...she should be trying harder for her own people in thier own countries. ..because I'm sure....VERY SURE.


That trump does not want all that happening in USA and will do anything to prevent those brutal massacres

[GiRTh]

Thank God for that..I thought it was an imposter.

He is spot on..after viewing the machete killings from the drug gangs in these countries and the revenge machettebkillibgs from the vigilante gangs opposeD to the drug gangs..he is right...she should be trying harder for her own people in thier own countries. ..because I'm sure....VERY SURE.


That trump does not want all that happening in USA and will do anything to prevent those brutal massacresTheir people are the American people. Thats why they've been elected to Congress :thumbs:

Why did Donne even bring this up? Cuz this kind of stuff is always on his mind. Ironically the only immigrant of the four has been a citizen of the US for longer than Melania. Why doesnt Donnie say things like this about his own wife?

[Liam-]

Big ol’ Donnie essentially telling a brown immigrant to go home to her people? Oh the shock, the horror, I never saw this coming!

Different day, same old **** with the bloke, it’s funny that he doesn’t have an issue with immigrants when he’s got them working for him isn’t it?

[Liam-]

Their people are the American people. Thats why they've been elected to Congress :thumbs:

Why did Donne even bring this up? Cuz this kind of stuff is always on his mind. Ironically the only immigrant of the four has been a citizen of the US for longer than Melania. Why doesnt Donnie say things like this about his own wife?

Oh, I wonder what it could be? :think:

[user104658]

Thank God for that..I thought it was an imposter.



He is spot on..after viewing the machete killings from the drug gangs in these countries and the revenge machettebkillibgs from the vigilante gangs opposeD to the drug gangs..he is right...she should be trying harder for her own people in thier own countries. ..because I'm sure....VERY SURE.





That trump does not want all that happening in USA and will do anything to prevent those brutal massacres3 of the 4 people he's talking about were born in the United States. They're not immigrants. One of them is from a family that has been in the United States for longer than Trump's family.

[Beso]

Their people are the American people. Thats why they've been elected to Congress :thumbs:

Why did Donne even bring this up? Cuz this kind of stuff is always on his mind. Ironically the only immigrant of the four has been a citizen of the US for longer than Melania. Why doesnt Donnie say things like this about his own wife?


The continent of south America is ****ed...that is down to the government (lol) of each country...

These concentration camps (lol)..well are they really that.:shrug:

[Beso]

3 of the 4 people he's talking about were born in the United States. They're not immigrants. One of them is from a family that has been in the United States for longer than Trump's family.

Whys she bothered about it then?

[GiRTh]

The continent of south America is ****ed...that is down to the government (lol) of each country...

These concentration camps (lol)..well are they really that.:shrug:Pence visited one and you should have seen his face. His role was clearly to go down their and show that its some kind palace but that was not gonna work when he saw the adult men caged together with no sleeping facilities.

[Beso]

Pence visited one and you should have seen his face. His role was clearly to go down their and show that its some kind palace but that was not gonna work when he saw the adult men caged together with no sleeping facilities.

Appalled at the scale of the situation I would imagine...his face..




I can imagine it would have shocked him...knowing the continuous flow heading that way.


I'm glad I'm not in charge of sorting that mess out.

[user104658]

Whys she bothered about it then?Why are people bothered about the president of the United States telling US citizens to "go back to their own country" because they're not white and don't have English-sounding names?

The reasons should be pretty obvious.

[GiRTh]

Appalled at the scale of the situation I would imagine...his face..




I can imagine it would have shocked him...knowing the continuous flow heading that way.


I'm glad I'm not in charge of sorting that mess out.Excellent spin but he's fully aware of what was going on there and the visit was a PR stunt to try and show it wasnt bad. It failed. To be frank, the conditions were so bad at he one they let the cameras in, what must it be like at the others.

[Beso]

It's right that eh....we can all sit all cosy posting away here...but to actually deal with all that humanitarianism impossibility while you get ripped from pillar to post from people like us with no idea of the situation, well...all that takes a strong mind and will if you truly believe that your way is the correct way or the best way possible to fix or contain the serious problem that other countries lack of control have thrust upon you.


Lots if open spaces in America though
.so I dunno

[bots]

Why are people bothered about the president of the United States telling US citizens to "go back to their own country" because they're not white and don't have English-sounding names?

The reasons should be pretty obvious.

and his own blinking wife isn't from the USA :laugh:

[Beso]

and his own blinking wife isn't from the USA :laugh:

Defending his wife while also attacking her......lol

[Twosugars]

Poor Melania, an innocent gold digger who got more than she bargained for

At least she has a nice statue back home

[Beso]

Sorry bits...was blinking said instead of a banned word?


Cause I'm thinking you mean she just stands there blinking.

[Kizzy]

I'm having a hard time understanding how anyone could justify treating anyone this way... regardless of whether they are illegal or not. It's morally and ethically repugnant to me.

Us with our island mentality I can see how some might become so predudiced and start banging on about walls... but America?!... the land of the free and the home of the brave? Shocking.
What's even more shocking is its those who are themselves decended from migrants or spouses are who are the least tolerant.

[Kizzy]

Why are people bothered about the president of the United States telling US citizens to "go back to their own country" because they're not white and don't have English-sounding names?

The reasons should be pretty obvious.

Just been reading about this... he has to go!
Mind you it's a well worn trope and one I've seen myself on here in all fairness.

[Kazanne]

I found this on FB and thought it was an interesting read just to balance things out a bit,this is how a lot of Americans feel and it is thier country
President Trump said:

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of AMERICA, as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks
Separately, TRUMP angered some American Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques.
Quote:
'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AMERICANS, MUST ADAPT... Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Americans.
'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.
'We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!
'Most Americans believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools.
If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'
'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.
'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great AMERICAN freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.
'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE’. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country that accepted you.
NOTE:
IF we circulate this amongst ourselves, WE will find the courage to start speaking and voicing the same truths.
...and for those who disagree move to a third world country and live there. "

Copied with permission from FB.

[Tom4784]

It's right that eh....we can all sit all cosy posting away here...but to actually deal with all that humanitarianism impossibility while you get ripped from pillar to post from people like us with no idea of the situation, well...all that takes a strong mind and will if you truly believe that your way is the correct way or the best way possible to fix or contain the serious problem that other countries lack of control have thrust upon you.


Lots if open spaces in America though
.so I dunno

As I said to Livia, every other president since the Flores Agreement came into being has managed to uphold it, instability in South America is not a new thing. The problems plaguing the people who live there haven't come into being recently. Trump's Administration has completely dropped the ball when it comes to human rights and upholding laws regarding the treatment and it's not coincidence that Trump ran on a platform of dehumanising anyone and everyone that isn't white. This crisis is one of the Trump Administration's own making. Wringing your hands and saying 'I'd like to see you do better!' is nothing but justification for horrific human rights abuse.

Stop playing sides, forget about your beloved Trump and see things how they are. These are concentration camps and human rights are being violated on a regular basis.

His latest rant at the US congresswomen, telling them to 'go back home' when each and every one of them is a US citizen is nothing but racist. You can try to spin that rant whichever way you'll want but you'll get dizzy before you make anything regarding this latest incident or the concentration camps right.

[Tom4784]

I found this on FB and thought it was an interesting read just to balance things out a bit,this is how a lot of Americans feel and it is thier country
President Trump said:

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of AMERICA, as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks
Separately, TRUMP angered some American Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques.
Quote:
'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AMERICANS, MUST ADAPT... Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Americans.
'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.
'We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!
'Most Americans believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools.
If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'
'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.
'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great AMERICAN freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.
'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE’. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country that accepted you.
NOTE:
IF we circulate this amongst ourselves, WE will find the courage to start speaking and voicing the same truths.
...and for those who disagree move to a third world country and live there. "

Copied with permission from FB.

That doesn't balance **** out, it's just the typical 'evil muslims want us all to live under shariah law!' justification for bigotry against them. The 'article' reads like propoganda and thus it's utterly worthless. It's just trying to justify Trump's bigotry.

A word of advice, no news on facebook is ever trustworthy. It's all spin and propaganda and you've provided us with an excellent example of that.

[Kizzy]

3 of the 4 people he's talking about were born in the United States. They're not immigrants. One of them is from a family that has been in the United States for longer than Trump's family.

Oh this just getting sweeter and sweeter doesn't it?....

[Beso]

As I said to Livia, every other president since the Flores Agreement came into being has managed to uphold it, instability in South America is not a new thing. The problems plaguing the people who live there haven't come into being recently. Trump's Administration has completely dropped the ball when it comes to human rights and upholding laws regarding the treatment and it's not coincidence that Trump ran on a platform of dehumanising anyone and everyone that isn't white. This crisis is one of the Trump Administration's own making. Wringing your hands and saying 'I'd like to see you do better!' is nothing but justification for horrific human rights abuse.

Stop playing sides, forget about your beloved Trump and see things how they are. These are concentration camps and human rights are being violated on a regular basis.

His latest rant at the US congresswomen, telling them to 'go back home' when each and every one of them is a US citizen is nothing but racist. You can try to spin that rant whichever way you'll want but you'll get dizzy before you make anything regarding this latest incident or the concentration camps right.


What trump is saying is if you think this is bad...then **** off back home....I agree with his sentiments.

[Tom4784]

What trump is saying is if you think this is bad...then **** off back home....I agree with his sentiments.

Is this aimed at immigrants or US citizens who disagree with Trump?

[Beso]

Is this aimed at immigrants or US citizens who disagree with Trump?

It's aimed at unnapreciative arse holes unhappy at what they have walked for.


Are you one of them?

[Kizzy]

I found this on FB and thought it was an interesting read just to balance things out a bit,this is how a lot of Americans feel and it is thier country
President Trump said:

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of AMERICA, as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks
Separately, TRUMP angered some American Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques.
Quote:
'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AMERICANS, MUST ADAPT... Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Americans.
'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.
'We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!
'Most Americans believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools.
If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'
'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.
'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great AMERICAN freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.
'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE’. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country that accepted you.
NOTE:
IF we circulate this amongst ourselves, WE will find the courage to start speaking and voicing the same truths.
...and for those who disagree move to a third world country and live there. "

Copied with permission from FB.

Sorry Kaz but that doesn't balance out anything... it's totally unrelated to his comments directed to those congresswoman.

[Tom4784]

It's aimed at unnapreciative arse holes unhappy at what they have walked for.


Are you one of them?

So basically, you believe that people can't speak out against Trump or the government for their actions, have you ever considered moving to North Korea, it would agree with you, I expect.

As for 'unappreciative arseholes' do you believe these people should be glad that they are suffering human rights abuse? Should we be glad and silent and never criticise the Great Leader Trump? Is it okay because they aren't white?

Is the fact that you are spouting support for typical dictatorship behaviours lost on you, I wonder?

[Ammi]

I found this on FB and thought it was an interesting read just to balance things out a bit,this is how a lot of Americans feel and it is thier country
President Trump said:

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of AMERICA, as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks
Separately, TRUMP angered some American Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques.
Quote:
'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AMERICANS, MUST ADAPT... Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Americans.
'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.
'We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!
'Most Americans believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools.
If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'
'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.
'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great AMERICAN freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.
'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE’. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country that accepted you.
NOTE:
IF we circulate this amongst ourselves, WE will find the courage to start speaking and voicing the same truths.
...and for those who disagree move to a third world country and live there. "

Copied with permission from FB.

...crikey that’s so not balanced...on a spectrum it would lead more toward ‘extreme’ than ‘balance’ in its intolerance...’most Americans believe in God’...and God’s belief/Christianity is in mindsets of OUR COUNTRY, OUR LIFESTYLE, OUR LAND.../...in mindsets of intolerance of other cultures, other religions..really..?...America, the land of the free...but only if you conform to being what Trump tells you to be...

[Ammi]

...strange actually that I watched this vid yesterday...’coming over here, speaking your Spanish...I hope Trump sense you off again with all of that foreignness...’.../....or such similar words...sadly when the leader of a country has such a mindset it will cause a validation in those of a similar vein...:sad:...the free world is becoming less free as democracy leans its head toward dictatorship...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7235245/Woman-tells-Puerto-Rican-customer-hope-Trump-deports-spoke-Spanish-grocery-store.html

[Ammi]

“Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came.”...


...it’s funny how he’s not interested in tackling his own country’s gun laws which would help with his ‘crime infested places’...and help to protect his children of America...

[Kazanne]

Who are we to dictate how another country should be run ? We can't even run our own properly , it's always been our trouble ,let's sort our own out first before telling others what they should do with theirs.

[bots]

America does have an immigration problem, no-one is disputing that. However, Trump has turned a problem into an emergency for his own political gain, and that is not right whichever perspective one may have.

Also, when the man in charge (Trump) calls for the repatriation of legal citizens elected to congress by the people to serve their country, there is something very, very wrong.

That is what has happened and is happening now. It is our duty as a nation to call out injustice in other countries, just as we would expect other countries to come to our aid if we, the people of the UK were suffering injustice here

[Kazanne]

America does have an immigration problem, no-one is disputing that. However, Trump has turned a problem into an emergency for his own political gain, and that is not right whichever perspective one may have.

Also, when the man in charge (Trump) calls for the repatriation of legal citizens elected to congress by the people to serve their country, there is something very, very wrong.

That is what has happened and is happening now. It is our duty as a nation to call out injustice in other countries, just as we would expect other countries to come to our aid if we, the people of the UK were suffering injustice here

Immigration has been a problem for a long time it's not a new thing ,and not just on Trumps watch, I get what you are saying bots but when our own country is in such a state it's just seems so hypocritical to tell others how they should run theirs,we rushed into a war with Iraq and that didn't end well,I just say when we get our own house in order then we can tell others what to do .

[Beso]

So basically, you believe that people can't speak out against Trump or the government for their actions, have you ever considered moving to North Korea, it would agree with you, I expect.

As for 'unappreciative arseholes' do you believe these people should be glad that they are suffering human rights abuse? Should we be glad and silent and never criticise the Great Leader Trump? Is it okay because they aren't white?

Is the fact that you are spouting support for typical dictatorship behaviours lost on you, I wonder?

What colour are they?

[Ammi]

...While he’s detaining human beings in little more than caged conditions...so overcrowded that there are no room for beds and with children contracting diseases and some of them not surviving those... and all because of the conditions they are being kept in in the Western Civilised world ../..then it’s for everyone to scream out, surely....for those who are not able to do so themselves...for those who are being detained as they are, like animals...and his ‘looking after his business’ and addressing that inhumanity..?...is to state....IF YOU DON’T LIKE IT GO HOME...!,!!,...because this is me and this is what I do and I’m the boss now...well the people who he’s advocating to ‘go home’ are already home and they’re telling him, his principles and policies stink of nothing that America was built on.../...absolutely nothing...

[Beso]

Do you have proof that these childrens deaths are due to the conditions they are living in in the camps.. please?

[Ammi]

...I guess that’s what Trump is asking in his Snow-White House.../...his ivory tower...do you have proof that these 7 children ..(..at least..)...who are known to have died in my brand of immigration custody../..unfit for humans.. and after almost a decade in which no child reportedly died...are actually my business or any concern of mine..

[user104658]

Who are we to dictate how another country should be run ? We can't even run our own properly , it's always been our trouble ,let's sort our own out first before telling others what they should do with theirs.

UK and US politics are interwoven in a way that makes this impossible. US politics has a direct impact on the entire world, and of all of those countries, on the UK more than most. Discussing US politics *is* part of discussing UK politics... and that's more true than ever right now with us leaving the EU.

[Kazanne]

UK and US politics are interwoven in a way that makes this impossible. US politics has a direct impact on the entire world, and of all of those countries, on the UK more than most. Discussing US politics *is* part of discussing UK politics... and that's more true than ever right now with us leaving the EU.

I'm surprised they want anything to do with us the way we mock their people.

[Liam-]

I'm surprised they want anything to do with us the way we mock their people.

Yeah, we’re the bad country in this scenario obviously

[Shaun]

Who are we to dictate how another country should be run ? We can't even run our own properly , it's always been our trouble ,let's sort our own out first before telling others what they should do with theirs.

That's a pretty far climb down from "we've set up internment camps".

[Tom4784]

I'm surprised they want anything to do with us the way we mock their people.

They have literal concentration camps, Kazanne. Why are you making out that we're in the wrong for criticising flagrant human rights abuses and that we should be honoured if the US even gives us the time of day?