Doctor Who: Series 12

[Marsh.]

Not Arthur Weasley. :skull:

[Glenn.]

:skull:

[Rob!]

Not gonna lie, I am excited about tomorrow.

[Morgan.]

Fabulous episode, enjoyed it from start to finish and I’m glad it tied up most of the loose ends :clap1:

Slightly disappointed by ‘The Doctor will return in Revolution of the Daleks’. A festive Dalek episode two years running, no thanks :laugh:

[Morgan.]

Mess they haven’t even decided if it’s going to air on Christmas or New Year yet :skull:

[Firewire]

I thought that was excellent

Jodie & Sacha are a perfect combination of enemies.

I think the fact it's left us with even more questions is a good thing (Twitter aren't so keen).

[Oliver_W]

It was really good!

People bitching that it shows too much about the Doctor's past? I think being an alien from an unknown dimension is more mysterious than being from Gallifrey.


Though I think the Master was lying, and he was the Timeless Child. He was angry because the Time Lords took away his immortality, and being immortal was pretty much all he ever wanted. So maybe he thought it was "just" a drive for infinite life and power, but was actually a subconscious yearning for something that was taken from him...

But having part of the Doctor be in his foundations also makes sense as something which would utterly disgust him, so "Who Nose" !

[Oliver_W]

Also, I wonder if this means the Doc can still infinitely regenerate? He might have just been wrong on Trenzalore when he thought he'd run out, and maybe the Time Lords just sent him a special effect which didn't actually do anything :joker:

Did they say his/her (whichever at the time) mind was taken from the body, and put into Hartnell's body with a regeneration limit? I know some of the "connective tissue" was missing, and I also had to nip to the loo at one point, so yeah, do we know how the Master knows it's the Doc, and if she's still the same regenerated body as the baby?

[Scarlett.]

I was worried that this would reveal too much about the Timelords and the Doctor...

But I'm kinda over the Timelords and Gallifrey now, they served their purpose up to the Time War. Speaking of the Time War, I love how the scene with The Doctor and the button mirrored Day of the Doctor and The Moment.

The Doctor's past is now muuuuuuuuuuuuch more mysterious and interesting tbh. The Timelords always felt kinda stuffy, too stuffy to appear in any real capacity in New Who.

[Scarlett.]

Hmm, the more I think about it, the more unsure I am of the twist, it feels as though it is sort of sweeping a lot of the show's history and mythos under the rug. Though I'm willing to go along with this as Chibnall apparently has a 5 year plan.

[Strictly Jake]

Exceptional ep and series!

[Marsh.]

Hmm, the more I think about it, the more unsure I am of the twist, it feels as though it is sort of sweeping a lot of the show's history and mythos under the rug. Though I'm willing to go along with this as Chibnall apparently has a 5 year plan.

I'm not too bothered. The mystery around the Time Lord/Doctor's origins remains intact since we don't (and presumably won't) know where the Doctor came from.

[Scarlett.]

I'm not too bothered. The mystery around the Time Lord/Doctor's origins remains intact since we don't (and presumably won't) know where the Doctor came from.

Hmm that is true, I do lean more toward the side of being kinda glad the Timelord stuff is over, but thinking back to the 50th Anniversary kinda makes me miss the whole return of Gallifrey arc.

[Marsh.]

Yeah, I was expecting more from Moffat in terms of their return but the Timelords just seem to be an albatross around the show's neck mostly.

I love how the first form the Doctor is ever seen in is a little black girl too. Really shutting those "The Doctor is a white man!" people up. :hehe:

[Scarlett.]

Yeah, I was expecting more from Moffat in terms of their return but the Timelords just seem to be an albatross around the show's neck mostly.

I love how the first form the Doctor is ever seen in is a little black girl too. Really shutting those "The Doctor is a white man!" people up. :hehe:

It also ties into the who 'Mobius Doctors' thing from the Classic series (who actually appeared during the Doctor's memories scene!)
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-zjrdd5l_hRM/VxR1uk0ENII/AAAAAAAAWy0/XfMKFetqJIIwy3DeAD27b15p8bJJrYP7wCLcB/s640/morbius%2B1.JPG

[Firewire]

Not that it was any surprise...

Bradley Walsh & Tosin Cole will exit in the Christmas special

https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/bradley-walsh-set-sensationally-quit-21618111

[Morgan.]

Thrilled at us getting solo Yaz!

[Greg!]

Thrilled at us getting solo Yaz!

Omg you simply love to see it!

[Morgan.]

Chibnall can stay afterall?

[Oliver_W]

Not that it was any surprise...

Bradley Walsh & Tosin Cole will exit in the Christmas special

https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/bradley-walsh-set-sensationally-quit-21618111

I'd rather all three go tbh, but maybe now Yaz can be given actual characterisation :)

[Scarlett.]

Honestly can see the show improving massively with just The Doctor and Yaz

[user104658]

There should only ever be one companion and AT MOST a sub-companion; either temporary third members like Jack/River, or Rory sort of worked as... the companion's companion... :think:

But it's not an ensemble show and doesn't work as an ensemble show. The main focus needs to be The Doctor with one "regular" companion to bounce ideas off and keep them grounded. They understood that way back in the Tennant era with (I think it was) Donna pointing out that The Doctor shouldn't be on his own because he loses perspective. That's why s/he needs a companion... as a mirror I suppose... but it only really works when it's one person.

[Scarlett.]

I feel Chibnall wanted a TARDIS team like back in the Fifth Doctor days, but soon learned why it wasn't really done since then

[Marsh.]

Tbh, it's not worked because the writing is piss poor. Even 1 companion is going to struggle under this showrunner. But having 3 just amplified the problems.

[Marsh.]

And looking back on the finale, it's illustrated my issues. I have no problems with Chibnall's ideas but he struggles massively to turn them into stories.

The "story" is basically characters explaining sh*t all the time. Isn't the first rule of screenwriting show not tell?

Why not open the show with a cold open of the Timeless Child? Did we need the Master laboriously explaining it?

[user104658]

And looking back on the finale, it's illustrated my issues. I have no problems with Chibnall's ideas but he struggles massively to turn them into stories.

The "story" is basically characters explaining sh*t all the time. Isn't the first rule of screenwriting show not tell?

Why not open the show with a cold open of the Timeless Child? Did we need the Master laboriously explaining it?

I agree, a little bit of exposition is OK in a complex story with limited time... but relying heavily on it shows poor showrunning creativity. People watch TV and films to watch TV and films... not to listen to an audiobook.

[bots]

i just can't warm to show at all these days, i find it very juvenile, largely induced by the dialog

[Scarlett.]

Yeah, that's the big downfall this era, everything seems to be spoonfed to us, and over explained

[user104658]

i just can't warm to show at all these days, i find it very juvenile, largely induced by the dialog

I think the dialogue got very involved (sci-fi wise) in the Smith era and into the Capaldi era - which I imagine adult fans enjoyed, but it'll have caused a lot of younger fans to tune out with no idea what was going on. They've tried to address it but ended up going too far in the other direction, into "Sarah Jane Adventures" territory which is boring for adults and frankly, a bit patronising for young fans too :facepalm:.

[Marsh.]

It's a mess. Character development amounting to Ryan missing a basketball hoop in episode 1 but managing to kill a bunch of Cybermen in episode 10 with a bomb shaped like a basketball is so laughable. :joker:

[Marsh.]

Also, did the Doctor need to be "gifted" the additional regeneration ability beyond 12?

If the Doctor is the Timeless child then she was the only being already with the innate ability to regenerate. The 12 times thing was a law the Timelords created for the people of Gallifrey?

[Scarlett.]

Also, did the Doctor need to be "gifted" the additional regeneration ability beyond 12?

If the Doctor is the Timeless child then she was the only being already with the innate ability to regenerate. The 12 times thing was a law the Timelords created for the people of Gallifrey?

To The Doctor and Timelord's knowledge, it was their final regeneration, despite that they probably could have regenerated anyway

[Oliver_W]

Also, did the Doctor need to be "gifted" the additional regeneration ability beyond 12?

If the Doctor is the Timeless child then she was the only being already with the innate ability to regenerate. The 12 times thing was a law the Timelords created for the people of Gallifrey?

Yeah that's the way I took it, the limit was imposed.

In Five Doctors, we learn that Rassilon could regenerate endlessly, and that the then-President was trying to get this power too.
The Master was in a stolen human body at the time, and they said they could give him a regeneration cycle.


I think Master being the Timeless Child makes more sense, s/he's the one who inexplicable cheated death so many times :joker:

[Marsh.]

Yeah that's the way I took it, the limit was imposed.

In Five Doctors, we learn that Rassilon could regenerate endlessly, and that the then-President was trying to get this power too.
The Master was in a stolen human body at the time, and they said they could give him a regeneration cycle.


I think Master being the Timeless Child makes more sense, s/he's the one who inexplicable cheated death so many times :joker:

Yeah, and it would explain the Master being so self destructive and against Gallifrey as deep inside would've always known anyway.

But I suppose that could describe the Doctor too. Never abided by the Timelord rules.

[Glenn.]

To The Doctor and Timelord's knowledge, it was their final regeneration, despite that they probably could have regenerated anyway

This would make sense. Rassilon says in the End of Time about having ‘a billion years of time lord history riding on their backs’ or something so I would presume they had no idea about the Timeless Child. The Master found it hidden in the Matrix when he was hacking it.

[Scarlett.]

I do wonder if Rassilon was the 'mother' of the child?

[Marsh.]

Oh I forgot about the Timelord's themselves not knowing about the timeless child either since it dates back so far.

But then they redacted more information from the matrix, so is that completely deleted or can we expect more information to come to light?

[Glenn.]

Oh I forgot about the Timelord's themselves not knowing about the timeless child either since it dates back so far.

But then they redacted more information from the matrix, so is that completely deleted or can we expect more information to come to light?

It would have been The Division that redacted it though surely? So the Timelords would still be clueless.

[Marsh.]

It would have been The Division that redacted it though surely? So the Timelords would still be clueless.

Are the Division like the MI5 of Gallifrey?

So big an info dump on Sunday I couldn't process all of it.

[Marsh.]

I'd have rather a "Doctor-lite" episode where the majority told the story of the Timeless child.

[Glenn.]

Are the Division like the MI5 of Gallifrey?

So big an info dump on Sunday I couldn't process all of it.

Pretty much yeah. The woman said they don’t exist or something. So yeah, the Timelords wouldn’t know unless they ventured into the Matrix like the Master, which they wouldn’t do because they feared it.

[Glenn.]

Also does this make the Master the Hybrid? Two warrior races being the Timelords and The Cybermen. The hybrid was destined to stand in the ruins of Gallifrey and break a billion hearts to heal his own.

[Marsh.]

I can't even remember how the Hybrid arc ended originally. :joker:

[Scarlett.]

Also does this make the Master the Hybrid? Two warrior races being the Timelords and The Cybermen. The hybrid was destined to stand in the ruins of Gallifrey and break a billion hearts to heal his own.

I never even considered this, it works pretty well.

[Glenn.]

I can't even remember how the Hybrid arc ended originally. :joker:

It makes more sense than what Moffat give us lmao