France on National Strike over Pension Reductions

[arista]

https://news.sky.com/story/france-tourists-face-travel-chaos-as-national-strike-begins-11878533


Macron
is in trouble over this move.


[Travellers heading to and from
France face five days of chaos
due to a general strike across the country.
French public sector workers
began the walkouts on
Thursday over French President
Emmanuel Macron's plans to
reform the nation's pension system.
Flights, trains and buses are being
hit by the biggest wave of industrial
action the country has faced for decades.]

[Crimson Dynamo]

When are they not on strike

:rolleyes:

[The Slim Reaper]

Just go in 6 days time.

[Captain.Remy]

lmao we're always on strike, so it's not like it's anything unusual to us.
Yellow vests, lawyers, students etc etc etc You name it, it's on strike.

Today almost no train or public transport worked in the whole country. I had to work from home and let it watch burn. I'm not even watching the news because this is ridiculous.
And I could not care less about the reform, it's not a bad one actually. Let them eat cake!

[arista]

lmao we're always on strike, so it's not like it's anything unusual to us.
Yellow vests, lawyers, students etc etc etc You name it, it's on strike.

Today almost no train or public transport worked in the whole country. I had to work from home and let it watch burn. I'm not even watching the news because this is ridiculous.
And I could not care less about the reform, it's not a bad one actually. Let them eat cake!


Same thing in 1995 in France.

Nice to hear from you Capt. Remy Sir.

[Kizzy]

Good for them France is not a nation of appeasers! They fight for their rights, I wish to God we were more like them.

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/10722/production/_110026376_thetimes.jpg

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/11140/production/_110025996_financialtimes.jpg

France gets a Photo on two newspapers/

Meanwhile
Macron demands Pension Reform and Cuts.

[arista]

Good for them France is not a nation of appeasers! They fight for their rights, I wish to God we were more like them.


No Kizzy its not out way
France has more Angry Farmers
and more are now poor.

[Kizzy]

No Kizzy its not out way
France has more Angry Farmers
and more are now poor.

Yes arista...we have more poor everyone... The PM today said he would block strikes on public transport. So that's workers rights tampered with post brexit.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yes arista...we have more poor everyone... The PM today said he would block strikes on public transport. So that's workers rights tampered with post brexit.

great news no one providing a public service should be allowed to strike

[Kizzy]

great news no one providing a public service should be allowed to strike

Bus and rail travel are not public services, they're owned and operated by private enterprise.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Bus and rail travel are not public services, they're owned and operated by private enterprise.

public transport

trains, busses

[Cherie]

Bus and rail travel are not public services, they're owned and operated by private enterprise.

Its a bit more complicated than that, for instance in London

Is London transport in the public sector? ... Technically, Transport for London is a private company that's wholly owned by the government. It's responsible for enacting the mayor's transport strategy as a whole, across a number of different transportation modes

[Crimson Dynamo]

any company that knows as the public rely on it to get to work etc and strike based on that reason should be targetted

They strike for that cynical reason

its disgusting

[Kizzy]

Its a bit more complicated than that, for instance in London

Is London transport in the public sector? ... Technically, Transport for London is a private company that's wholly owned by the government. It's responsible for enacting the mayor's transport strategy as a whole, across a number of different transportation modes

It isnt 'owned by the government' ...it's owned by us! The PM works for us, it's not complicated.

[Kizzy]

any company that knows as the public rely on it to get to work etc and strike based on that reason should be targetted

They strike for that cynical reason

its disgusting

Nobody goes on strike for fun.. It's for safety, pay or conditions. That is perfectly legitimate no matter what sector you're in.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Nobody goes on strike for fun.. It's for safety, pay or conditions. That is perfectly legitimate no matter what sector you're in.

rather funny that its a certain type of job that keeps going on strike?

[Kizzy]

public transport

trains, busses

Public transport. .not public service there's a very big difference.

Public toilet...
Public library..
Anything that is for the public is called public :/

[Kizzy]

rather funny that its a certain type of job that keeps going on strike?

Not funny at all, if safety is compromised then it should be expected.. they have PUBLIC safety to think about.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Not funny at all, if safety is compromised then it should be expected.. they have PUBLIC safety to think about.

yes i believe they have stooped to trying that old trick thankfully that has been addressed by the rail company.

[Cherie]

It isnt 'owned by the government' ...it's owned by us! The PM works for us, it's not complicated.

just two posts up you said this

Bus and rail travel are not public services, they're owned and operated by private enterprise.


now the public own it....make your mind up!

[Kizzy]

yes i believe they have stooped to trying that old trick thankfully that has been addressed by the rail company.

Old trick? ... is that how you see this, how odd.
So they can compromise public safety, the public who pay extortionate ticket prices in some cases? All the while creaming off millions on profits. If that's ethical corprate practice to you that's fine.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Old trick? ... is that how you see this, how odd.
So they can compromise public safety, the public who pay extortionate ticket prices in some cases? All the while creaming off millions on profits. If that's ethical corprate practice to you that's fine.

Its business. When you sell and car i expect you try to get the best price you can and not an "ethical price".

when you buy things you try to get the best deal you can?

[Kizzy]

just two posts up you said this

Bus and rail travel are not public services, they're owned and operated by private enterprise.


now the public own it....make your mind up!

Obviously it depends who are striking, in the rest of the country we don't have publicly owned (not government owned) services.

In London should that still be the case then they should have the right to strike, they are not emergency public services it would endanger life for them to strike.
It would remove hard fought rights to prevent this action if the trade union called for it.

It shows a creeping autocracy taking the power from the workers and placing it in the hands of the govt. For me this smacks of wanting a nation of proles who have no option but to bend at will.

[Kizzy]

Its business. When you sell and car i expect you try to get the best price you can and not an "ethical price".

when you buy things you try to get the best deal you can?

You can't run an economy on the cheap.

[arista]

You can't run an economy on the cheap.

Macron is going ahead
with his cut backs

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1203331402529464321/L-1STuYM?format=jpg&name=small

[This weekend, amid the
long-running Yellow Vest demonstrations,
France faced another, separate protest:
a national strike over
President Emmanuel Macron’s plans
to overhaul the pension system]


NYT

[Captain.Remy]

It's not that bad, we just don't have national trains at the moment lmao Nothing unusual again to us :joker:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Macron is going ahead
with his cut backs

He is awful

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1202564808144556032/whsMNHNd?format=jpg&name=small

[Kizzy]

Is that the fire service protesting? ... things must be really bad :(

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1202633723411390466/O5KbrkCz?format=jpg&name=small


1202615379778056192

[Captain.Remy]

He did not ignore the yellow vests wtf
He gave away a lot to ease the situation. If it were up to me I would not have given them a penny!
But whatever, France right now is showing that you can solve everything with violence. So let those lazy asses destroy the country, elect that extreme right party leader Marine Le Pen so she can turn herself into a monster even more.

London take me back! (oh wait, y'all are in trouble too lol)

[arista]

He did not ignore the yellow vests wtf
He gave away a lot to ease the situation. If it were up to me I would not have given them a penny!
But whatever, France right now is showing that you can solve everything with violence. So let those lazy asses destroy the country, elect that extreme right party leader Marine Le Pen so she can turn herself into a monster even more.

London take me back! (oh wait, y'all are in trouble too lol)


Yes he had talks
but the Yellow Vests are staying put
Nothing has changed.


And Capt. Remy
London and UK are Split
on this Election/Brexit Battle
but we are not like the French
who are Rioters

[Captain.Remy]

At least they don't block roundabouts anymore, and they are less and less to show up every saturday. Since they agree with the violence that happened, they should be treated as such.
And they always want more and they don't care about the financial repercussions. They are spoilt and greedy, end of the story.
Now that doesn't mean some of their motives are not right, but everybody is facing struggles in their daily lifes. We should take care of the people in difficult situations, but not people who want to sit around and do nothing and be paid for it.

They're a bunch of cowards who waited until a younger president was elected not even two years ago so they can take all of their anger towards him. They would have never had the guts to do it with Sarkozy or Hollande. And that's a weak move for that. Macron is not responsible for the previous presidents' mistakes.

Anyway, Macron is showing those rats that he's much stronger than that. He won't back down and that's a good thing.

About the pensions reform, basically it's saying that your pension won't be based on your best 25 years of your career anymore, but on your whole career instead.
So now people are rioting because pretty much they realize they can't sit around all day and work from time to time to get a decent pension. Get out of here! They are lazy and dumb (they can't even make right calculation based on the formula provided by the government, what a bunch of idiots)

[Cherie]

At least they don't block roundabouts anymore, and they are less and less to show up every saturday. Since they agree with the violence that happened, they should be treated as such.
And they always want more and they don't care about the financial repercussions. They are spoilt and greedy, end of the story.
Now that doesn't mean some of their motives are not right, but everybody is facing struggles in their daily lifes. We should take care of the people in difficult situations, but not people who want to sit around and do nothing and be paid for it.

They're a bunch of cowards who waited until a younger president was elected not even two years ago so they can take all of their anger towards him. They would have never had the guts to do it with Sarkozy or Hollande. And that's a weak move for that. Macron is not responsible for the previous presidents' mistakes.

Anyway, Macron is showing those rats that he's much stronger than that. He won't back down and that's a good thing.

About the pensions reform, basically it's saying that your pension won't be based on your best 25 years of your career anymore, but on your whole career instead.
So now people are rioting because pretty much they realize they can't sit around all day and work from time to time to get a decent pension. Get out of here! They are lazy and dumb (they can't even make right calculation based on the formula provided by the government, what a bunch of idiots)

Nice to get an actual French residents view rather than, 'I wish we were more like the French' and were more militant, in reality we wouldn't really want our city centres turned into battlegrounds every weekend

[Captain.Remy]

Nice to get an actual French residents view rather than, 'I wish we were more like the French' and were more militant, in reality we wouldn't really want our city centres turned into battlegrounds every weekend

Thank you. I think it's in the French people's DNA to go on strike hardly (oh hey the French Revolution!), but some people take it way too far!
I feel very bad for all the shops that must close around Christmas and see their revenue crushed because of it. This is the second year in a row, and many shops have closed or hardly survive. Christmas is usually a strong period for them, but now they are struggling because people don't go into city centres anymore.
All profit goes to Amazon obviously, since people can't go do their Christmas shopping in shops. And ironically enough, the yellow vests and rioters want to evict Amazon so local shops can generate more jobs. I can't. :rolleyes:

[Kizzy]

Thank you. I think it's in the French people's DNA to go on strike hardly (oh hey the French Revolution!), but some people take it way too far!
I feel very bad for all the shops that must close around Christmas and see their revenue crushed because of it. This is the second year in a row, and many shops have closed or hardly survive. Christmas is usually a strong period for them, but now they are struggling because people don't go into city centres anymore.
All profit goes to Amazon obviously, since people can't go do their Christmas shopping in shops. And ironically enough, the yellow vests and rioters want to evict Amazon so local shops can generate more jobs. I can't. :rolleyes:

The people striking are professionals and unions, so hardly bums... I of course understand that it is inconvenient and damaging however to me there is something passionate and honourable about fighting for your rights. That's what I find admirable.
We hear tales of great valour and spirit ' Dunkirk spirit' ...That is how I see this, a fight against those who would disempower the citizen.

[Captain.Remy]

The people striking are professionals and unions, so hardly bums... I of course understand that it is inconvenient and damaging however to me there is something passionate and honourable about fighting for your rights. That's what I find admirable.
We hear tales of great valour and spirit ' Dunkirk spirit' ...That is how I see this, a fight against those who would disempower the citizen.

What rights are we talking about here? France is not an impoverished country where corruption is everywhere. It's not.
We have the same rights in France, here we only discuss a pension regime that people are mad about because it means they need to pull the finger out of their arse to get to work and stop relying on the government.

I used to strike when I was much younger for much harder causes that created less division in the country. This one is uncalled for and stupid. The unions know exactly what they are doing by harassing a new guy in politics thinking he's weak.
My issue also is that they don't represent a majority a French people, it's always the same unions that are blocking the country and create a climate of tension and division, and don't respect the results from a direct election that took place 2 years and a half ago.
And what about the people who voted for Macron? They just need to shut up and accept it from the sounds of the unions. And that's not right, he was elected by the people so let him do his job.

[Kizzy]

What rights are we talking about here? France is not an impoverished country where corruption is everywhere. It's not.
We have the same rights in France, here we only discuss a pension regime that people are mad about because it means they need to pull the finger out of their arse to get to work and stop relying on the government.

I used to strike when I was much younger for much harder causes that created less division in the country. This one is uncalled for and stupid. The unions know exactly what they are doing by harassing a new guy in politics thinking he's weak.
My issue also is that they don't represent a majority a French people, it's always the same unions that are blocking the country and create a climate of tension and division, and don't respect the results from a direct election that took place 2 years and a half ago.
And what about the people who voted for Macron? They just need to shut up and accept it from the sounds of the unions. And that's not right, he was elected by the people so let him do his job.

It's not personal, it's a policy issue yes?... Whoever were ringing in these pension reforms would garner the same reaction, again why would they have to get to work, they are already workers. It's fine coming from an older person who as you've said protested when it benefitted you to do so... what of these young men working now and worrying about how these reforms will impact them in old age?

[Captain.Remy]

It's not personal, it's a policy issue yes?... Whoever were ringing in these pension reforms would garner the same reaction, again why would they have to get to work, they are already workers. It's fine coming from an older person who as you've said protested when it benefitted you to do so... what of these young men working now and worrying about how these reforms will impact them in old age?

I'm actually 29, started protesting at 12 and got elected in pretty much every student union I got into. A true French basterd!:joker: But you know what, I grew up and realized that I don't need to rely too much on a President to decide how to live my life. And I respect what and who the people voted for.

The thing is, this reform is not a bad one.
You have to understand that here in France we offer a lot of assistance and a lot of workers have special regimes (going into retirement earlier, earning more etc...) that previous governments gave them just to keep peace.
It's time that it ends, and obviously they're mad about it. Though it needs to be kept for the harder jobs with hazard conditions.

Also the thing with having your pension calculated on your overall career and not your best 25 years is that it requires stepping up and do your best. And typically this is not what we are taught in France at a young age.
What we are taught is that work is rubbish, being competitive is bad, and also don't be too ambitious. And obviously, go strike for the most little thing.

Macron is young, fresh, full of 21st century ideas, he's trying to take us to a new era, but those unions would rather disrespect him and the results of an election.

[arista]

[Macron is young, fresh, full of 21st century ideas,
he's trying to take us to a new era,
but those unions would rather
disrespect him and the results of an election.]

Yes they liked him when he Won.
but now the Cut backs
are splitting France
Much like the UK.

[Cherie]

Not kizzy accusing Captain Remy of being one of those pesky boomers who dared to be born in the 60s :laugh:

[Kizzy]

I'm actually 29, started protesting at 12 and got elected in pretty much every student union I got into. A true French basterd!:joker: But you know what, I grew up and realized that I don't need to rely too much on a President to decide how to live my life. And I respect what and who the people voted for.

The thing is, this reform is not a bad one.
You have to understand that here in France we offer a lot of assistance and a lot of workers have special regimes (going into retirement earlier, earning more etc...) that previous governments gave them just to keep peace.
It's time that it ends, and obviously they're mad about it. Though it needs to be kept for the harder jobs with hazard conditions.

Also the thing with having your pension calculated on your overall career and not your best 25 years is that it requires stepping up and do your best. And typically this is not what we are taught in France at a young age.
What we are taught is that work is rubbish, being competitive is bad, and also don't be too ambitious. And obviously, go strike for the most little thing.

Macron is young, fresh, full of 21st century ideas, he's trying to take us to a new era, but those unions would rather disrespect him and the results of an election.

I don't agree with that attitude tbh, government don't give rights to keep the peace they are hard fought and hard won reform. To suggest cretain sectors forgo those is unfair.
I wouldn't expect any parent or teacher would suggest working hard is bad or wrong.

As any politician your leader works for the citizens, reforms are suggested and voted on, he is not in that position to inflict his will without analysis and debate.

Should a sector via their representatives disagree they are within their rights to voice their objections. That is democratic, democracy does not begin and end with a vote for a leader.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Not kizzy accusing Captain Remy of being one of those pesky boomers who dared to be born in the 60s :laugh:

:joker:

[Kizzy]

Not kizzy accusing Captain Remy of being one of those pesky boomers who dared to be born in the 60s :laugh:

Not cherie not actively part of the debate, just mocking from the sidelines ...

[Cherie]

Not cherie not actively part of the debate, just mocking from the sidelines ...

I have been part of the debate, nothing more to be said from me, Cpt Remy is doing a fine job

[Kizzy]

I have been part of the debate, nothing more to be said from me, Cpt Remy is doing a fine job

A fine job if what, expressing his opinion? I'm sure he appreciates that cherie.

[Cherie]

A fine job if what, expressing his opinion? I'm sure he appreciates that cherie.

Of stating what is actually going on in France kizzy

[Kizzy]

Oh and there's me thinking the last few posts were just a personal opinion as to the individuals striking as well as a slur on them as a collective?
Having one French voice on the forum does not state what is actually going on in France any more than the opinion of you or I could explain the situation here.

[Ammi]

...(...I’m enjoying reading the differing views/perspectives of both of you, Kizzy and Remy...)...and that’s the thing with this type of situation...how it’s easy to see and understand both sides...the Pension system in France as it stands, drains government resources that it doesn’t need to if it were simplified for all..?...but in doing so, some are feeling less valued in a society of generally feeling less valued...?...I think the reality that in general, people are going to have to work longer in life and will have a lesser pension...but one particular article that I was reading about the situation made me think that there are deeper feelings involved than the pension changes...to use a quote from that, it’s “the feeling of being forgotten”....which is running through not just protesters, but supporters of those also...

...anyways, Remy...I hope that your daily disruptions are not too severe and frustrating...Vive le France etc....

[Captain.Remy]

I don't agree with that attitude tbh, government don't give rights to keep the peace they are hard fought and hard won reform. To suggest cretain sectors forgo those is unfair.
I wouldn't expect any parent or teacher would suggest working hard is bad or wrong.

As any politician your leader works for the citizens, reforms are suggested and voted on, he is not in that position to inflict his will without analysis and debate.

Should a sector via their representatives disagree they are within their rights to voice their objections. That is democratic, democracy does not begin and end with a vote for a leader.

Trust me, this is our educational system.

Anybody should have the chance to voice their opinion, but without violence, hate or spreading fake news. And that's the most damaging thing the unions are doing, which is really annoying a lot of people here.

8th day without trains! Who does that? Yes, the people from French rail who benefit of the best social regime the world probably has ever seen. It costs an humongous amount of money, and yes, the governments gave it to them in the past to keep the peace and to not disturb the rail traffic. And that's the truth.

[Captain.Remy]

...(...I’m enjoying reading the differing views/perspectives of both of you, Kizzy and Remy...)...and that’s the thing with this type of situation...how it’s easy to see and understand both sides...the Pension system in France as it stands, drains government resources that it doesn’t need to if it were simplified for all..?...but in doing so, some are feeling less valued in a society of generally feeling less valued...?...I think the reality that in general, people are going to have to work longer in life and will have a lesser pension...but one particular article that I was reading about the situation made me think that there are deeper feelings involved than the pension changes...to use a quote from that, it’s “the feeling of being forgotten”....which is running through not just protesters, but supporters of those also...

...anyways, Remy...I hope that your daily disruptions are not too severe and frustrating...Vive le France etc....

Aww thanks! I take local tramway in my city so it's fine, some days there are less transport but we make it work. Or I ride a scooter to work. I hate those but I have to say it's useful in those cases:joker:

[Kizzy]

Trust me, this is our educational system.

Anybody should have the chance to voice their opinion, but without violence, hate or spreading fake news. And that's the most damaging thing the unions are doing, which is really annoying a lot of people here.

8th day without trains! Who does that? Yes, the people from French rail who benefit of the best social regime the world probably has ever seen. It costs an humongous amount of money, and yes, the governments gave it to them in the past to keep the peace and to not disturb the rail traffic. And that's the truth.

I find that hard to believe sorry that teachers don't want the children to do their best or achieve as much as their potential allows..

You have just explained how it is not that much of an inconvenience to you, back when you did protest there were those who wI'll have been unaffected by your cause who were inconvenienced by your actions in some way. This is the same on s larger scale, to show solidarity by just carrying on as you are is enough.

It seems unlikely the unions are spreading fake news, they will have pay, conditions, safety or contractual obligations to consider, if they are saying proposals compromise any of these why would you then think that is fake?

Politics is not a religion there is no need for blind faith or a devotion to one supreme leader, (yes even corbyn) it is possible to agree with an election result but disagree with a policy.

Again I doubt any past party budgeted just to keep the peace with the workforce, sectors such as the fire service are respected and integral to society in many ways, my first thought would be for them in any action.

[Captain.Remy]

I find that hard to believe sorry that teachers don't want the children to do their best or achieve as much as their potential allows..

You have just explained how it is not that much of an inconvenience to you, back when you did protest there were those who wI'll have been unaffected by your cause who were inconvenienced by your actions in some way. This is the same on s larger scale, to show solidarity by just carrying on as you are is enough.

It seems unlikely the unions are spreading fake news, they will have pay, conditions, safety or contractual obligations to consider, if they are saying proposals compromise any of these why would you then think that is fake?

Politics is not a religion there is no need for blind faith or a devotion to one supreme leader, (yes even corbyn) it is possible to agree with an election result but disagree with a policy.

Again I doubt any past party budgeted just to keep the peace with the workforce, sectors such as the fire service are respected and integral to society in many ways, my first thought would be for them in any action.

Well I mainly protested in high school and colleges by helping closing them for a few days to protest about stuff that were really (and I mean REALLY) bad. The whole France was against it, the government was not elected for that, and in that extent that was fair to protest because it was a complete blindside. I then understood there are other ways to make my voice heard. But it's just my personal case.

And just to finish this off, yes unions are spreading fake news about the pensions reform. Unions are very powerful in France, it's in our DNA too. They are mainly funded by public money (which to me is an atrocity but that's a whole other debate.) They don't seek compromise, they actually also lose pay days other this. They just announced today that there will be NO TRAINS during Christmas holidays, taking basically the whole country as hostage. Who is that cold hearted to do something that extreme? The French unions as usual.

In terms of the policy the President was elected to achieve, sure there are things I don't always agree with, but then again he was elected on a second round (in France we have two rounds: one with all candidates, another one with the top 2 later) so Macron really had opportunities to explain that policy and he got the most votes in both rounds. Now if there were dictatorial tendencies I would agree, but really it's only 5 years (10 at most) and it is his turn to turn his policy into actions. Let him do the job and judge him later, not before. That's all I'm saying.

In the end, you can always take a long trip there to see for yourself I suppose. I can't explain it any further I suppose, so that's fair, and thanks for your interest! I really mean that in a nice way.