When did EastEnders start to lose it for you?

[Redway]

I think everyone’s noticed that the Christmas episodes and so-called memorable moments aren’t up to scratch these days but the show’s never been as irrelevant in the public eye since they killed off Ronnie and Roxy. Was the show already long heading into late Brookie territory for you or was that the final straw?

[Gstar]

When DTC left. The final nail in the coffin was R&R

[Redway]

It’s had problems since 2002-ish but it stopped being watchable in the Newman era and has never recovered since despite two good stock years (2014 and 2019) in that interval. Even Gavin and Stacey couldn’t keep more than 5 million watching Eastenders this Christmas so you can see how much damage has been done to the brand.

If it wasn’t for the fact that it’s fun to take the piss out of it on here I probably wouldn’t still be watching for the most part.

[Marsh.]

It's had problems in different periods but picked itself up and recovered. However, the issues that began with Kirkwood have only been exacerbated and made worse with each and every production team.

DTC (and currently Sen/Oates) managed to put the show through a short good patch by focusing on the show's strengths. But because they didn't fix the issues it was shortlived. They only papered over the cracks.

SOC took the show to new depths of sh*te too actually.

Sen/Oates EE is falling apart at the minute IMO. I'll switch off if there's no end in sight for the Ben/Martin guff.

[Dogeatdog]

I got bored of EastEnders around 2009 when they killed off Ronnie’s daughter Danielle. That’s when I pretty much stopped watching it regularly but I gave up completely on the show when they did that bizarre storyline of Ronnies baby dying of a cot death and then she swapped it over for someone else’s baby (can’t remember who’s).

It just seemed beyond ridiculous at the time for me and I never bothered to watch it again.

[Marsh.]

It’s had problems since 2002-ish but it stopped being watchable in the Newman era and has never recovered since despite two good stock years (2014 and 2019) in that interval. Even Gavin and Stacey couldn’t keep more than 5 million watching Eastenders this Christmas so you can see how much damage has been done to the brand.

If it wasn’t for the fact that it’s fun to take the piss out of it on here I probably wouldn’t still be watching for the most part.

I don't think you can really judge off ratings like that anymore. TV ratings are plummeting as are soaps viewership across the board. The fact EE was the highest rated soap is an achievement considering the last few years of it falling behind ED.

[Tony Montana]

I lost interest after Bobby was revealed as Lucy's killer back in 2015. I did watch Peggy's final episodes and when Roxy and Ronnie died though.

[Firewire]

It dipped 2011-2012 but it hasn't lost it.

2019 has been the best year since 2014.

[Redway]

I don't think you can really judge off ratings like that anymore. TV ratings are plummeting as are soaps viewership across the board. The fact EE was the highest rated soap is an achievement considering the last few years of it falling behind ED.

But the fact is that EastEnders has bled the most viewers out of all the soaps over the past ten years. Changing viewing climates and technology has a lot to do with it but given the state of the show this decade compared to Corrie and Emmerdale (for the most part) a lot more of it ak be down to people actually switching off in droves.

[Marsh.]

But the fact is that EastEnders has bled the most viewers out of all the soaps over the past ten years. Changing viewing climates and technology has a lot to do with it but given the state of the show this decade compared to Corrie and Emmerdale (for the most part) a lot more of it ak be down to people actually switching off in droves.

Not really. If you're comparing it to the show's highest peaks those were only really for special occasions anyway. It was never the norm even ten years ago.

[Crimson Dynamo]

about 20 years ago

its pathetic nowadays, how can anyone watch it??

:umm2:

[Marsh.]

If EE lost it for you 20 years ago why on earth are you still watching?

[Redway]

Not really. If you're comparing it to the show's highest peaks those were only really for special occasions anyway. It was never the norm even ten years ago.

It’s still a lot of viewers to lose in a short space of time. I’m not sure how much is down to technological advances alone.

[Redway]

I’m not one of those nostalgic people who look back on Santer’s so-called golden era with rose-tinted spectacles either. Outside his fluke first year the show wasn’t amazing outside blockbuster episodes and moments but something changed in viewer perception around 2012/13 and not for the better. Only DTC managed to recapture a bit of casual interest.

[Marsh.]

It’s still a lot of viewers to lose in a short space of time. I’m not sure how much is down to technological advances alone.

They've lost viewers for all kinds of reasons, no doubt about it.

But in an era when it can beat the other soaps with a measly 5m on Christmas Day and still make the top 10 of the day then it's not as drastic as people make out IMO

[Marsh.]

I’m not one of those nostalgic people who look back on Santer’s so-called golden era with rose-tinted spectacles either. Outside his fluke first year the show wasn’t amazing outside blockbuster episodes and moments but something changed in viewer perception around 2012/13 and not for the better. Only DTC managed to recapture a bit of casual interest.

For all his faults DTC was imaginative. That's what's lacking now. Oates' BenEnders is getting so tediously repetitive already.

[Daniel-X]

There’s been a noticeable change since Santer’s era came to an end (funnily enough the first era of the show I watched as a child). Kirkwood made the show into a glorified version of Hollyoaks with mainly decent actors but terrible storylines/horrible new characters introduced (see: Antony, Joey, Alice, Derek, Tyler, Vanessa and Jodie). Newman wasn’t actually too bad, she didn’t do any damage to the show but it was just incredibly boring and not EastEnders.

I’d argue DTC has been the most detrimental to the show, it was more watchable under him than Kirkwood and Newman but the lengths he took the show to to create a ‘fanfic’ version of EastEnders for himself were ridiculous. The whole Who Killed Lucy? storyline is one the show will never recover from now.

Less said about SOC and Yorke 2.0 the better.

It’s finally back on track under Sen & Oates but even then it’s not without it flaws, but it’s definitely the best the show has been since Santer. They need to get a grasp of the actual history of the show more but it’s decent.

[Jessica.]

When they got rid of the actor who played Ben when he got abused by stella

[Marsh.]

When they got rid of the actor who played Ben when he got abused by stella

:joker:

[Daniel.]

It's always been a load of crap, really.

Entertaining crap though.

[Amy Jade]

Ronnie and Roxy dying is still painfully stupid.

Both would have come back in a few years and they were fan favourites, still no idea who thought killing them off was the best idea.

[Jason.]

2011

Stace took the show with her.

[Amy Jade]

Also even though it has improved I am sick of them ramming ****ing Ben into every single storyline, currently I am more annoyed by him being involved in EVERYTHING than anything I can remember on the show.

Still disgusted they wrote out the Cokers for the old man who played chess and his dead wife. I can't remember either of their names...

*Ted and Josie

[Cal.]

Ronnie and Roxy’s deaths.

And the show is really suffering without Stacey atm whilst Lacey Turner is on maternity leave.

[Redway]

Ronnie and Roxy dying is still painfully stupid.

Both would have come back in a few years and they were fan favourites, still no idea who thought killing them off was the best idea.
None other than O’Connor.
Also even though it has improved I am sick of them ramming ****ing Ben into every single storyline, currently I am more annoyed by him being involved in EVERYTHING than anything I can remember on the show.

Still disgusted they wrote out the Cokers for the old man who played chess and his dead wife. I can't remember either of their names...

*Ted and Josie

Joyce.

[Redway]

Ronnie and Roxy’s deaths.

And the show is really suffering without Stacey atm whilst Lacey Turner is on maternity leave.

Do you think she’s more indispensable than Phil Mitchell?

[Marsh.]

Stacey doesn't really do much when she's there. Just gets a ludicrously stupid exit story when she's taking a break.

Like Phil. Doesn't do anything at all but decides to take 6 months off when he actually has a storyline.

[Marsh.]

Killing everyone off is its main problem.

When you look at the family groups and think of all the former members of it and 90% of them are deceased then it's a problem.

There's literally Janine and Grant in terms of possible major returns for the future. And Sam bloody Mitchell who is about as useful as Lola.

[Nancy.]

I've been on and off with Eastenders for years, but always watched out of habit (like Corrie). The new years episode where they killed off Roxie and Ronnie in one fell swoop was utterly ridiculous. What with that and stupid "duff duff's" like Denise boiling pasta, you just knew EE has reached it's lowest point.

[Redway]

I’d have no problem with Sam coming back if Kim Medcalf resumes Marsh. She made that character her own and she’s more relevant than Janine at the moment.

I agree Stacey should’ve stayed away after her first exit.

[Amy Jade]

I liked the Denise storyline when she had no money, the writers just handled it very poorly and yeah we understood she was too proud to admit that she was struggling but it just became tedious.

Diane Parish in general needs more screen time and a meaty storyline because she is one of the best actresses on the show. They need to bring sassy Chelsea back.

[Cal.]

Do you think she’s more indispensable than Phil Mitchell?

Certainly!

[Redway]

That reverse image of Dennis Rickman dying in the last episode of 2005 and Deano Wicks popping up in the next episode’s probably the most jarring transition period there’s ever been. It took a while for EastEnders to properly get going again and even in the first half of Santer’s era those dodgy hangover characters (Gus, Naomi, Mickey Miller) kept it in 2006 zones tonally up until the last of them were weeded out and Lucas/Danielle started coming into their own. That’s when Santer’s era began in its quintessential form.

That 2006/2007-mid-2008 period I just see as a transition between Harwood and Santer and that era doesn’t have much in common tonally with the Archie/Chryed era that most people think of when they remember Santer.

[Nancy.]

Diane Parish in general needs more screen time and a meaty storyline because she is one of the best actresses on the show. They need to bring sassy Chelsea back.

Yes, I agree. I'm not sure what the writers are playing at with her at the moment. She hasn't had a decent storyline since Kate Oates came onboard, although, I did enjoy her recent scenes with Patrick and Sheree. It's a shame they've never brought Chelsea back. I'd much rather see her than the god awful Squiggle.

[Redway]

Yes, I agree. I'm not sure what the writers are playing at with her at the moment. She hasn't had a decent storyline since Kate Oates came onboard, although, I did enjoy her recent scenes with Patrick and Sheree. It's a shame they've never brought Chelsea back. I'd much rather see her than the god awful Squiggle.

She hasn’t had a story of note since Owen/Lucas tbh. You can’t blame Oates and Sen for everything.

[Amy Jade]

I'd like them to explore something between Jack and Denise, I like them together but we need something to go on to bring them together more - feels like a relationship out of nowhere.

[Redway]

I'd like them to explore something between Jack and Denise, I like them together but we need something to go on to bring them together more - feels like a relationship out of nowhere.

Your wish was their command. Even-though Jack was a toxic bastard to Denise for a whole year until she made her own story-stakes with The Six. 2023-Jack is a disrespectful, borderline-abusive scumbag.

And now we have Ben Wadey taking the show back to 2011/12/15 in tone straight after Clenshaw gave it the best overall era in at-least 15 years (since 2014 and 2019 were the only decent years from 2011 to 2021, and 2022-the middle of this year is a trillion times better than 2019 without even trying), I worry. Between Owen’s abuse of her (culminating in him drowning Libby; poor Libs), all the stuff with Lucas and Trina, her questionable relationships/one-night stands (Ian, Phil.), her borderline-alcoholism (which was frequently hinted at at one point) and anything-else that’s worth mentioning within that period (so not her getting a GCSE in English Lit. and then collapsing in the hallway, ravaging bins for food and boiling pasta without water, but then 2017 is one of EastEnders’ very-worst years anyway), she’s had a lot of focus over the 19 years she’s been part of this show but the amount of executive producers who give her enough screen-time and sole focus when she’s not in the shadow of Kim., who should be in the shadow of Denise rather than the other way around and isn’t even really that funny anymore (although she does have her moments) is … well, questionable. But Clenshaw, for all his flaws (and he had many), utilised her sole and the show was all-the better for that, because Denise is a treasure and played by a powerhouse-actress.

The same want of extension goes to Chelsea, where Zaraah Abrahams is, again, a powerhouse-actress and one who’s obviously more settled and willing to be here to stay than she was in Corrie or Waterloo Road, but at the minute she’s in the shadow of Chelsea 1.0 in terms of focus and isn’t playing a character so much as a reminder that, y’know, that Denise has kids out there, one of-whom also happens to have terrible taste in men. But Denise learnt the hard way and it stuck. Chelsea just doesn’t seem to learn or grow from her dating-mistakes, and it’s pretty bad for a woman pushing 40 (not that she looks 38) who witnessed her mum suffer greatly in relationships with abusive men and serial-killing sociopaths. They need to sharpen up the focus of Chelsea as a character deserving of as much screen-time as Lauren and Penny, if not more, capitalise the fact that she’s played by a very capable actress and keep Denise in the limelight.

But I don’t trust Wadey to do that any more than I trust a pathological gossip to actually start minding the business one day. He’s just too green in the game and doesn’t seem to have a clue what he’s doing. No, the show isn’t as bad at the moment as it was in 2012, 2018 or 2021 but it’s a massive step down, and anyone (like I say, from the hardcore Walford-Web and Digital-Spy fandom of mandem and gyal-dem to casual fans who mostly only watch at Christmas) can see that. Wadey needs to go.

[GoldHeart]

I'll be honest,I haven't watched EE for 15 years. But what made me lose interest was the horrible baby swap storyline with Ronnie & Kat's babies. That was too far imo .

And I hated how Ronnie's character just kept going through depressing trauma. It felt like the writers had something against her . She's reunited with Danielle her long lost daughter ..boom she gets hit by a car and dies of course.


And hearing about how they killed off her & Roxy is just so ridiculous :facepalm: .

[Parmy]

Probably when I forcibly told everyone on TIBB Stacey killed Archie, and nobody believed me.

[Redway]

I'll be honest,I haven't watched EE for 15 years. But what made me lose interest was the horrible baby swap storyline with Ronnie & Kat's babies. That was too far imo .

And I hated how Ronnie's character just kept going through depressing trauma. It felt like the writers had something against her . She's reunited with Danielle her long lost daughter ..boom she gets hit by a car and dies of course.


And hearing about how they killed off her & Roxy is just so ridiculous :facepalm: .

The 2010s was a wretched decade, with the baby-swap being the most-complained-about storyline to date (if I’m not mistaken) and … yeah. Ronnie and Roxy. Personally, I thought Ronnie was past her sell-by date by then and played out completely but her last few months were a certain kind of calm before the storm. The problem is they didn’t write Ronnie as they did in late 2016 after her first 18 months on the show. The way Danielle died and the effect it had on her was the beginning of the end and she went from being the fresh, vibrant, slightly mysterious breath of fresh air she was up-until that point to drowned in all things tragic, making holes in condoms and swapping babies (the culmination of it). 2014, give-but-not-take 2 months on either side, it … yeah. Only really decent year of the 2010s.

Chris Clenshaw was the last EP before the new guy (Ben Wadey) and he managed to give EastEnders the best era in at-least 15 years but Ben Wadey seems to be hell-bent on taking it back to the sh*te-fest. People who take the time to post on forums like Digital Spy and Walford Web are a very special kind of fan who know their way around their soaps in a timeless way, regardless of age, but otherwise, being an actual executive producer for a flagship-show (well, that it was in its prime, anyway) takes a fair bit of experience that a fresh 30-year-old won’t have. If he was immersed in the forum-dissection of these shows at any point, that would be something to go on in the absence of not too much experience but he doesn’t seem to have either. Hollyoaks-experience counts for almost nothing on a show like EastEnders. I saw through his credentials and knew he was going to be crap as soon as it was announced he’d be taking over and he’s not proved me, or any of the other people who were also skeptical about him right from the start, wrong so-far. His era reminds me of 2011/12, where Kat and Alfie were at their most toxic, Stacey was either going (and very unlikeable throughout most of 2010; having her kill Archie was … well, it could’ve been better-planned long-term) or gone, the new Moons, Joey incest-banging his cousin and Max being a sleazy stud just for the sake of it (Stacey/Max was different). And that’s not where EastEnders needs to be after Clenshaw turned it around so much and gave it some reputation after 10 solid years (minus the Who-Killed-Lucy year) of total crap.

[Redway]

There’s been a noticeable change since Santer’s era came to an end (funnily enough the first era of the show I watched as a child). Kirkwood made the show into a glorified version of Hollyoaks with mainly decent actors but terrible storylines/horrible new characters introduced (see: Antony, Joey, Alice, Derek, Tyler, Vanessa and Jodie). Newman wasn’t actually too bad, she didn’t do any damage to the show but it was just incredibly boring and not EastEnders.

I’d argue DTC has been the most detrimental to the show, it was more watchable under him than Kirkwood and Newman but the lengths he took the show to to create a ‘fanfic’ version of EastEnders for himself were ridiculous. The whole Who Killed Lucy? storyline is one the show will never recover from now.

Less said about SOC and Yorke 2.0 the better.

It’s finally back on track under Sen & Oates but even then it’s not without it flaws, but it’s definitely the best the show has been since Santer. They need to get a grasp of the actual history of the show more but it’s decent.

Yeah, this really didn’t age well. But we weren’t to know at the time, were we? SenFX took many of us by surprise.

[GoldHeart]

The 2010s was a wretched decade, with the baby-swap being the most-complained-about storyline to date (if I’m not mistaken) and … yeah. Ronnie and Roxy. Personally, I thought Ronnie was past her sell-by date by then and played out completely but her last few months were a certain kind of calm before the storm. The problem is they didn’t write Ronnie as they did in late 2016 after her first 18 months on the show. The way Danielle died and the effect it had on her was the beginning of the end and she went from being the fresh, vibrant, slightly mysterious breath of fresh air she was up-until that point to drowned in all things tragic, making holes in condoms and swapping babies (the culmination of it). 2014, give-but-not-take 2 months on either side, it … yeah. Only really decent year of the 2010s.

Chris Clenshaw was the last EP before the new guy (Ben Wadey) and he managed to give EastEnders the best era in at-least 15 years but Ben Wadey seems to be hell-bent on taking it back to the sh*te-fest. People who take the time to post on forums like Digital Spy and Walford Web are a very special kind of fan who know their way around their soaps in a timeless way, regardless of age, but otherwise, being an actual executive producer for a flagship-show (well, that it was in its prime, anyway) takes a fair bit of experience that a fresh 30-year-old won’t have. If he was immersed in the forum-dissection of these shows at any point, that would be something to go on in the absence of not too much experience but he doesn’t seem to have either. Hollyoaks-experience counts for almost nothing on a show like EastEnders. I saw through his credentials and knew he was going to be crap as soon as it was announced he’d be taking over and he’s not proved me, or any of the other people who were also skeptical about him right from the start, wrong so-far. His era reminds me of 2011/12, where Kat and Alfie were at their most toxic, Stacey was either going (and very unlikeable throughout most of 2010; having her kill Archie was … well, it could’ve been better-planned long-term) or gone, the new Moons, Joey incest-banging his cousin and Max being a sleazy stud just for the sake of it (Stacey/Max was different). And that’s not where EastEnders needs to be after Clenshaw turned it around so much and gave it some reputation after 10 solid years (minus the Who-Killed-Lucy year) of total crap.

Yeah Stacy was a pain at times .

I always found Max irritating,his & Stacy's affair was ahem ....a choice let's just say . However the dvd explosive reveal was definitely one of the most dramatic outcomes so I'll give the EE writer's props for that :clap1:. I'm surprised Dot didn't faint in shock ,she just wanted to watch the Queen's speech .

[Masterchief117]

I think the GOLDEN ERA of Eastenders is 1985-2005, and to be more specific, I think it went downhill after Dennis Rickman got killed off. From that moment the storylines felt more mundane and soapy, not to say that it got BAD then. Max/Stacey, Archie, Sean, ronnie and roxy etc. Are all great stuff.... but it lost something it never got back.

I think it truly went RAPIDLY downhill when the Carter's were introduced in 2013.

[GoldHeart]

I think the GOLDEN ERA of Eastenders is 1985-2005, and to be more specific, I think it went downhill after Dennis Rickman got killed off. From that moment the storylines felt more mundane and soapy, not to say that it got BAD then. Max/Stacey, Archie, Sean, ronnie and roxy etc. Are all great stuff.... but it lost something it never got back.

I think it truly went RAPIDLY downhill when the Carter's were introduced in 2013.

Yeah I wasn't a fan of them killing off Dennis Rickman, I actually think he had more depth and was more likeable .....than meat head thug Sean Slater :bored: .

[Redway]

I think the GOLDEN ERA of Eastenders is 1985-2005, and to be more specific, I think it went downhill after Dennis Rickman got killed off. From that moment the storylines felt more mundane and soapy, not to say that it got BAD then. Max/Stacey, Archie, Sean, ronnie and roxy etc. Are all great stuff.... but it lost something it never got back.

I think it truly went RAPIDLY downhill when the Carter's were introduced in 2013.

Something changed in 2006, I agree. Some people say it got that “classic” spark back when Clenshaw took over, something that was largely absent from 2006-2021, but even if that is the case, Wadey’s regressed it again. 2007-10 was still a decent block of years overall (2008 not so much, but it had its moments) and the bar is currently a lot lower than that. It’s really come undone this half of the year.

But as-for something happening to the sensibility of writing/characterisation and what realism was left in the show by then (Dirty Den’s return was just-about plausible, still), a lot of long-term/real-OG fans do notice a certain decline from 2006 onwards (which Clenshaw may or may not have repaired). Santer was good but the cut-off point for undisputed-classic vs. modern does seem to coalesce around 2006/07, and 2006 didn’t help itself with such a string of dodgy storylines and needless affairs (Pat./Patrick, Grant/Jane/Chelsea, Sonia/Naomi, Pauline’s character-assassination, the Kathy-blunder, although that got corrected 9 years later, thank-God-for-that). But there was also a fair bit about this year that’s enjoyable (Jean, before she becomes a sausage-surprise caricature under Santer and Kirkwood, still possessed of some grit, trying to reconnect with Stacey and Sean, getting to know Bradley, the Denise/Owen/Libby domestic-abuse storyline, Honey/Billy’s wedding and Janet’s Down’s Syndrome, Ian and Jane as a nice couple, the beginnings of Stax/Stella’s abuse of Ben and the May/Dawn/Rob triangle).

I’d personally still say 2008 was the worst year of the noughties because it started the trend for truly WTF storylines (Tanya burying Max alive and him getting run over by his 13-year-old daughter in the same year, Mad May coming back for no reason and blowing herself up courtesy of a cigarette), cursed Stax literally the day after the Xmas-reveal was over and just gave us endless affair-drama off the back of it, bla-bla-bla. Just one overly sensationalised story after the other, the weakest of Santer’s years. Things like Whitney/Tony, Frank’s funeral, the return of the Butchers (Bianca/Ricky-dem) and Janine’s bacon-sandwich wedding are just some scattered highlights of a below-par year. Also liked the week in Weymouth where Ronnie (who wasn’t drowned in misery at this point) bumps into Archie again (even if Archie did go on to bring out the very-worst in Peggy at one point), getting to know the likes of Lucas and Christian this year and … yeah. Just a few bits and bobs along the way. There’s some good in there but all-in-all it’s just a very, very messy year.

[Masterchief117]

Yeah I wasn't a fan of them killing off Dennis Rickman, I actually think he had more depth and was more likeable .....than meat head thug Sean Slater :bored: .

Dennis Rickman is probably my all time favorite male character on EE. Amazing performance by NH, had incredible chemistry with Sharon, his twisted relationship with Den was really interesting, and his tragic backstop coming out in pieces over time really gave him depth.... oh, and his friendship with Dot was amazing, my favorite Dot friendship.

I thought Sean was great too though. But Dennis was a bad boy with a big heart underneath it all, Sean was more straight up an insane bully with deep seated self hatred and anger issues.

[Redway]

Yeah I wasn't a fan of them killing off Dennis Rickman, I actually think he had more depth and was more likeable .....than meat head thug Sean Slater :bored: .

No but I liked Sean, a lot. I’d say he was a Sainsbury’s Dennis Rickman. Not too bad in comparison but he left before they had an opportunity to really flesh out some of his issues in detail.

[Redway]

Dennis Rickman is probably my all time favorite male character on EE. Amazing performance by NH, had incredible chemistry with Sharon, his twisted relationship with Den was really interesting, and his tragic backstop coming out in pieces over time really gave him depth.... oh, and his friendship with Dot was amazing, my favorite Dot friendship.

I thought Sean was great too though. But Dennis was a bad boy with a big heart underneath it all, Sean was more straight up an insane bully with deep seated self hatred and anger issues.

I really like how Pat, Pauline and Dot kind of adopted certain people during this era. Pat and Andy Hunter, Pauline and Demi Miller, Dot and Dennis. All intriguing. Dem little surrogate-bonds.

[Masterchief117]

Something changed in 2006, I agree. Some people say it got that “classic” spark back when Clenshaw took over, something that was largely absent from 2006-2021, but even if that is the case, Wadey’s regressed it again. 2007-10 was still a decent block of years overall (2008 not so much, but it had its moments) and the bar is currently a lot lower than that. It’s really come undone this half of the year.

But as-for something happening to the sensibility of writing/characterisation and what realism was left in the show by then (Dirty Den’s return was just-about plausible, still), a lot of long-term/real-OG fans do notice a certain decline from 2006 onwards (which Clenshaw may or may not have repaired). Santer was good but the cut-off point for undisputed-classic vs. modern does seem to coalesce around 2006/07, and 2006 didn’t help itself with such a string of dodgy storylines and needless affairs (Pat./Patrick, Grant/Jane/Chelsea, Sonia/Naomi, Pauline’s character-assassination, the Kathy-blunder, although that got corrected 9 years later, thank-God-for-that). But there was also a fair bit about this year that’s enjoyable (Jean, before she becomes a sausage-surprise caricature under Santer and Kirkwood, still possessed of some grit, trying to reconnect with Stacey and Sean, getting to know Bradley, the Denise/Owen/Libby domestic-abuse storyline, Honey/Billy’s wedding and Janet’s Down’s Syndrome, Ian and Jane as a nice couple, the beginnings of Stax/Stella’s abuse of Ben and the May/Dawn/Rob triangle).

I’d personally still say 2008 was the worst year of the noughties because it started the trend for truly WTF storylines (Tanya burying Max alive and him getting run over by his 13-year-old daughter in the same year, Mad May coming back for no reason and blowing herself up courtesy of a cigarette), cursed Stax literally the day after the Xmas-reveal was over and just gave us endless affair-drama off the back of it, bla-bla-bla. Just one overly sensationalised story after the other, the weakest of Santer’s years. Things like Whitney/Tony, Frank’s funeral, the return of the Butchers (Bianca/Ricky-dem) and Janine’s bacon-sandwich wedding are just some scattered highlights of a below-par year. Also liked the week in Weymouth where Ronnie (who wasn’t drowned in misery at this point) bumps into Archie again (even if Archie did go on to bring out the very-worst in Peggy at one point), getting to know the likes of Lucas and Christian this year and … yeah. Just a few bits and bobs along the way. There’s some good in there but all-in-all it’s just a very, very messy year.

I mean, I'd take 2006-2012 over any of the following years easily, but I certainly think Clenshaw improved the show from the state it had been for the previous few years. But it's not a patch on the golden era. I think a lot of the characters are plain or boring now too. EE killed off too many great characters in the past. Sometimes they made sense and made the characters arc better coming full circle, but it's still a shame.

Tiffany Mitchell, Steve Owen, Mel Owen, Hunter Owen, Dennis Rickman,Dennis Rickman Jr, Paul Trueman, PAT BUTCHER, Ronnie & Roxy, etc. Are all characters that could have made many returns in the future and brought a lot to the show.

Patrick's best storylines for me always involved Paul. What a shame he never even got to meet Denise. And also, bringing back Cindy became a total flop. She's just an awful character as they write her and a pretty bad actress, she's got nothing to do now. If they were gonna do a ridiculous storyline again of rising from the dead, they should have brought someone like Paul back, who died off-screen and was identified a month after by Patrick, but could have been explained as believable as Cindy's comeback.

[Redway]

I mean, I'd take 2006-2012 over any of the following years easily, but I certainly think Clenshaw improved the show from the state it had been for the previous few years. But it's not a patch on the golden era. I think a lot of the characters are plain or boring now too. EE killed off too many great characters in the past. Sometimes they made sense and made the characters arc better coming full circle, but it's still a shame.

Tiffany Mitchell, Steve Owen, Mel Owen, Hunter Owen, Dennis Rickman,Dennis Rickman Jr, Paul Trueman, PAT BUTCHER, Ronnie & Roxy, etc. Are all characters that could have made many returns in the future and brought a lot to the show.

Patrick's best storylines for me always involved Paul. What a shame he never even got to meet Denise. And also, bringing back Cindy became a total flop. She's just an awful character as they write her and a pretty bad actress, she's got nothing to do now. If they were gonna do a ridiculous storyline again of rising from the dead, they should have brought someone like Paul back, who died off-screen and was identified a month after by Patrick, but could have been explained as believable as Cindy's comeback.
Honestly, Mel was so unwatchable under Yorke-2.0 and Oates that I wasn’t too bothered when she died, but I get what you mean.
What happened to Pat was just the worst. She asked for nothing more than a break and Kirkwood took that as his cue to kill her off. He floats in and around the show now as a surprisingly decent writer (who’s seemed to pause on the toxic shade of self-destruction Kat floated around when he was E.P.) but as executive producer? Couldn’t stand him.

And yes. Paul Trueman was a g.

[Redway]

Okay, this is unrelated - https://youtube.com/shorts/DLfXz-04bTI?si=_cbB5Fvb5uCNbHvR - but fam. Big Brother really weren’t capping last year. This year has none of that energy.

[Masterchief117]

Honestly, Mel was so unwatchable under Yorke-2.0 and Oates that I wasn’t too bothered when she died, but I get what you mean.
What happened to Pat was just the worst. She asked for nothing more than a break and Kirkwood took that as his cue to kill her off. He floats in and around the show now as a surprisingly decent writer (who’s seemed to pause on the toxic shade of self-destruction Kat floated around when he was E.P.) but as executive producer? Couldn’t stand him.

And yes. Paul Trueman was a g.


But imagine a world where Steve, Mel and Hunter returned together, with good writers. Could have been incredible. And I know what happened with Pam, it sucks. They did the same with Ronnie and Roxy. Absolutely terrible decision. Pat was the best female character in soap, and we could have had a another decade plus of her, and right after Peggy died they killed off R&R, who were the future of the Mitchell's. Now we're stuck with Teddy Mitchell and Ben 9.0 or whatever.

Also, Kat's been pretty terrible most of the time since her return in 2010 or whatever it was, and Zoe has been HORRIBLE since her return.

[Redway]

But imagine a world where Steve, Mel and Hunter returned together, with good writers. Could have been incredible. And I know what happened with Pam, it sucks. They did the same with Ronnie and Roxy. Absolutely terrible decision. Pat was the best female character in soap, and we could have had a another decade plus of her, and right after Peggy died they killed off R&R, who were the future of the Mitchell's. Now we're stuck with Teddy Mitchell and Ben 9.0 or whatever.

Also, Kat's been pretty terrible most of the time since her return in 2010 or whatever it was, and Zoe has been HORRIBLE since her return.

I personally think Kat’s improved a lot since 2018 but don’t even get me started on Zoe, man. Honestly. The first E.P. in two decades to get Zoe (whose actress swore she’d never come back) back and this is the material she gets? She wasn’t always particularly likeable first-time-around (although she had her moments, especially in 2001 and ’05) but her characterisation this time around has been utterly wretched. No redeeming features whatsoever. Ben Wadey really needs to go. He’s too green in the game and lacks the seasoning and experience needed to steer what’s traditionally the BBC’s flagship-soap. He ain’t got it, whatsoever. He’s just another Kirkwood but less experienced in a way that actually counts or means anything with regard to EE, and everyone between the hardcore (Digital Spy/Walford Web mandem) and casual/Facebook fans seems to agree. No-one likes what he’s doing, or the way he’s handled Zoe. It’s good to have her back but where’s the cohesive plan? What’s she actually going to be doing besides chasing after a cat and telling blatantly obvious lies about the paternity of her son? Where are we actually going with this?

[Masterchief117]

I personally think Kat’s improved a lot since 2018 but don’t even get me started on Zoe, man. Honestly. The first E.P. in two decades to get Zoe (whose actress swore she’d never come back) back and this is the material she gets? She wasn’t always particularly likeable first-time-around (although she had her moments, especially in 2001 and ’05) but her characterisation this time around has been utterly wretched. No redeeming features whatsoever. Ben Wadey really needs to go. He’s too green in the game and lacks the seasoning and experience needed to steer what’s traditionally the BBC’s flagship-soap. He ain’t got it, whatsoever. He’s just another Kirkwood but less experienced in a way that actually counts or means anything with regard to EE, and everyone between the hardcore (Digital Spy/Walford Web mandem) and casual/Facebook fans seems to agree. No-one likes what he’s doing, or the way he’s handled Zoe. It’s good to have her back but where’s the cohesive plan? What’s she actually going to be doing besides chasing after a cat and telling blatantly obvious lies about the paternity of her son? Where are we actually going with this?

Every Zoe scene is terrible. Could be even worse though, it could be Coronation Street. That show barely even resembles what it used to be.

[Redway]

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvgvwx7qwnvo?xtor=AL-72-%5Bpartner%5D-%5Byahoo.north.america%5D-%5Bheadline%5D-%5Bnews%5D-%5Bbizdev%5D-%5Bisapi%5D

[Redway]

Every Zoe scene is terrible. Could be even worse though, it could be Coronation Street. That show barely even resembles what it used to be.

What’s your take on Zoe’s stalking-storyline?