How do you feel watching this video?

[Smithy]

1257959518199316482

Please watch it before you comment.

But I honestly just find it gobsmacking that people can watch this, see the state we’re in and think everything is ok, or that enough has been done

[Liam-]

‘But NZ is so much smaller than us, god stop the stupid comparisons!!’

[arista]

‘But NZ is so much smaller than us, god stop the stupid comparisons!!’



Less population.

[The Slim Reaper]

People aren't interested. I posted this last night, and folks automatically assume it's more about comparing countries than leadership.

[Niamh.]

She is an amazing leader tbf :lovedup:

[Oliver_W]

She's definitely showing better leadership. But it really is easier to handle a crisis like this when an entire country has about half the population of London, they're controlling their borders, and citizens returning there are required to isolate.

[Smithy]

She's definitely showing better leadership. But it really is easier to handle a crisis like this when an entire country has about half the population of London, they're controlling their borders, and citizens returning there are required to isolate.

Which is exactly what we should have done

[MTVN]

I mean it is fair to point out that containing the virus in NZ is a million times more manageable than the UK. Be interested to see the dates on all the footage as well - NZ did not have any cases till March whereas we now know that it was in Europe already in December. Careful editing by Momentum as well as usual - cuts off the PM in the This Morning interview just before he says that letting it 'move through the population' was only one theory and he thought we should take a different approach

[The Slim Reaper]

I mean it is fair to point out that containing the virus in NZ is a million times more manageable than the UK. Be interested to see the dates on all the footage as well - NZ did not have any cases till March whereas we now know that it was in Europe already in December. Careful editing by Momentum as well as usual - cuts off the PM in the This Morning interview just before he says that letting it 'move through the population' was only one theory and he thought we should take a different approach

At the same time his government were pursuing that exact policy though.

[DouglasS]

Very highly edited video portraying a narrative.

It’s indefinitely eaisier to control a virus with a country on an island with a far smaller population. The thing about exponential growth is that if the population is far smaller And isolated, the problem is almost exponentially eaisier to deal with. Not to say New Zealand haven’t done a tremendous job as they clearly have, but it’s not possible to even compare the U.K. or US to that situation as it’s just entirely different. Outside of London weve done relatively well, which is almost like comparing that to New Zealand

[arista]

Yes I watched it Smithy


Very Clever Editing by the Labour crew.
Johnson PM made many errors.

[Samm]

Jacinda has been the most impressive leader throughout the world she’s amazing, along with Merkel

[MTVN]

At the same time his government were pursuing that exact policy though.

It was never to let it spread through the population unfettered, the thinking was that that was inevitable anyway one way or the other but that it should be contained as much as possible when cases were low and then the spread delayed so that the spread of infection was manageable

[Cherie]

She is a great leader, and Boris et al have made mistakes, but its not a comparable scenario, for a start 9 million masks would be eaten up in London in a week.

The unfortunate thing about idle comparisons like this is that gives grist to the mill of extreme right wingers regarding immigration and overcrowding in some of our cities, and the narrative is being pushed by the left ironically, you are 4 times more likely to die if you are black, and you are more likely to live in a crowded city as well.

Analysis from the Office for National Statistics found that black men and women were more than four times more likely to die after contracting Covid-19 than those of white ethnicity,

[Cherie]

I also posted this in the other thread but given no one responded here it is again

Why is Sweden not being held up for examination by Europe as to its herd immunity policy

and

can someone explain the following

Both countries with a similar population of 10 Million


Covid Deaths
Belgium :8,016
Portugal:1,074

Both locked down 17th March


NB Belgium are counting care home deaths

[The Slim Reaper]

It was never to let it spread through the population unfettered, the thinking was that that was inevitable anyway one way or the other but that it should be contained as much as possible when cases were low and then the spread delayed so that the spread of infection was manageable

Contained as much as possible and herd immunity are pretty incompatible practices, and we definitely know that herd immunity was their 1st and preferred strategy. I accept that was revised after the dire projections started to come back in, but we all know what cummings said about sacrificing older people. A new virus spreading through a population full of new hosts is impossible to contain without the right actions to prevent the spread. The words don't match up with what actually happened, and I know some gov ministers to this day still refuse to say that herd immunity was ever even their strategy at all.

[Liam-]

Boris told us we should just let it move through the population and just ‘take it on the chin’, it was most certainly their ‘strategy’ to let as many people as possible to get infected

[Brother Leon]

Still can’t believe he had the cheek to really say “Our apparent success”
The delusion is unreal.

[Cherie]

Boris told us we should just let it move through the population and just ‘take it on the chin’, it was most certainly their ‘strategy’ to let as many people as possible to get infected

Yes he did, no one is disputing that at all?

[user104658]

People aren't interested. I posted this last night, and folks automatically assume it's more about comparing countries than leadership.

The UK leadership (Westminster in general) being a ****ing bouncy castle of clowns just isn't news, though. Did we really need Covid for people to say "omg our leadership is a mess"? It not specific to this situation, or even this government, in the slightest... I personally can't stand it when people feign "omg shocking" when a light is shone on it in a new situation. It isn't "shocking"... it isn't "news"... it's standard UK politics in the 21st century.

There's plenty of scope for discussing that but trying to directly link it to the Covid situation or the stats/numbers is a tenuous hypothesis and an unhelpful discussion.

[Oliver_W]

Analysis from the Office for National Statistics found that black men and women were more than four times more likely to die after contracting Covid-19 than those of white ethnicity,

I'm surprised there's not a thread for this tbh

I do wonder if it's a genetic thing, like how some races are more likely to get some diseases or disabilities than others; or if it's due to how many of our front liners are BAME, so are more likely to come across it. Or is it because they're more likely to live in big cities, which are basically Petri dishes at the best of times...

[user104658]

I'm surprised there's not a thread for this tbh

I do wonder if it's a genetic thing, like how some races are more likely to get some diseases or disabilities than others; or if it's due to how many of our front liners are BAME, so are more likely to come across it. Or is it because they're more likely to live in big cities, which are basically Petri dishes at the best of times...

There definitely needs to be some research done into the reasons that BAME people are disproportionately affected, the same has been observed in NY, but it's a total unknown whether the factors are genetic or social. It really needs to be determined because it could mean a looming disaster for some nations that are still relatively unaffected.

[Tom4784]

It comes from tribalism, ego and misplaced loyalty.

The government has handled this situation terribly but you'll get Tory voters who see the government's failure as their own try and spin it to their benefit because doing so benefits their 'team'. These people treat politics like it's football and it's gross. Loyalty to political parties is ****ing stupid, you give them your votes and you take away that vote at the next election if they don't do what they said they were gonna do or if they **** up in a major way but a lot of Tory voters will vote blindly, often against their own interests, because they don't want to admit they were wrong and they want to 'own the libs' etc which is why, no matter what happens or how long it's been since Labour was in power, you'll still get Tory voters bleating on about labour governments although they've suffered the past ten years under the Tories.

Labour are irrelevant at this point yet you'd think they were still in power given how people use them to distract themselves from the decisions of the actual party in power.

You can't really justify how delayed and how callous the government's initial response to Covid was. Boris saw people as disposable and those same people would probably still cheer for him now, it's gross.

[The Slim Reaper]

The UK leadership (Westminster in general) being a ****ing bouncy castle of clowns just isn't news, though. Did we really need Covid for people to say "omg our leadership is a mess"? It not specific to this situation, or even this government, in the slightest... I personally can't stand it when people feign "omg shocking" when a light is shone on it in a new situation. It isn't "shocking"... it isn't "news"... it's standard UK politics in the 21st century.

There's plenty of scope for discussing that but trying to directly link it to the Covid situation or the stats/numbers is a tenuous hypothesis and an unhelpful discussion.

That's a lot of words about government when I specifically said it was about leadership, but you enjoy yourself.

[Cherie]

Which is exactly what we should have done

People were asked to self isolate if they had symptoms they didn't do it, remember the woman who returned from China and took an Uber to A and E with her symptoms :skull:

and there were loads who came back from Italy after half term who didn't either, they were on phone in's saying they had mild symptoms so were going to work anyway :skull:

[Smithy]

People were asked to self isolate if they had symptoms they didn't do it, remember the woman who returned from China and took an Uber to A and E with her symptoms :skull:

and there were loads who came back from Italy after half term who didn't either, they were on phone in's saying they had mild symptoms so were going to work anyway :skull:

That wasn’t as well known though, it should have been as transparent as his original broadcast telling everyone to stay at home :shrug:

[MTVN]

Contained as much as possible and herd immunity are pretty incompatible practices, and we definitely know that herd immunity was their 1st and preferred strategy. I accept that was revised after the dire projections started to come back in, but we all know what cummings said about sacrificing older people. A new virus spreading through a population full of new hosts is impossible to contain without the right actions to prevent the spread. The words don't match up with what actually happened, and I know some gov ministers to this day still refuse to say that herd immunity was ever even their strategy at all.

The four stages of contain, delay, research, mitigate were published quite early on in the crisis at the start of March before those dire projections which yes did have a big impact on policy. We don't know what Cummings said, we only have what was reported by one journalist and which he has denied. That same journalist said it was Cummings who was amongst the most forceful at wanting a lockdown shortly after that

[MTVN]

Boris told us we should just let it move through the population and just ‘take it on the chin’, it was most certainly their ‘strategy’ to let as many people as possible to get infected

Yes he did, no one is disputing that at all?

I dispute that tbf:

Claim
Prime Minister Boris Johnson advocated for the UK to take Covid-19 “on the chin” and allow the disease to spread through the population.

Conclusion
The Prime Minister said this was a theory on how to deal with the virus, but said it would be better if we take all the measures we can to reduce the burden on the NHS during the peak of the disease.

https://fullfact.org/health/boris-johnson-coronavirus-this-morning/

[Smithy]

Very highly edited video portraying a narrative.

It’s indefinitely eaisier to control a virus with a country on an island with a far smaller population. The thing about exponential growth is that if the population is far smaller And isolated, the problem is almost exponentially eaisier to deal with. Not to say New Zealand haven’t done a tremendous job as they clearly have, but it’s not possible to even compare the U.K. or US to that situation as it’s just entirely different. Outside of London weve done relatively well, which is almost like comparing that to New Zealand

China has a population of over a billion and has contained it better than we have? What’s the argument in this scenario?

[Cherie]

That wasn’t as well known though, it should have been as transparent as his original broadcast telling everyone to stay at home :shrug:

You kidding me, yes it was if people paid attention!

They were bringing people back from China and isolating them, Zizu was on here every day talking about it

Maybe he should have addressed the people like he did with lockdown but it was well reported in media, when you got back from aboard, we came back from Spain on 20th Feb there were signs up everywhere about self isolating if you had symptoms, people took no notice

[user104658]

That's a lot of words about government when I specifically said it was about leadership, but you enjoy yourself.Is it a lot of words about government when I said "leadership" twice, and "government" once, and that once was specifically to point out that I'm talking about leadership? :think: it's an interesting interpretation that I have to say I did enjoy.

[Tom4784]

South Korea has a comparable population to us and has still managed to do well in handling the disease despite being hit hard initially due to how quickly it spread throughout Asia.

Good leadership is good leadership. Covid has been another challenge that Jacinda Adern was handled exceptionally and she should be held up as modern gold standard of what good leadership looks like.

[Crimson Dynamo]

China has a population of over a billion and has contained it better than we have? What’s the argument in this scenario?

You are believing China now?

You must be the only person in the western world

[user104658]

South Korea has a comparable population to us and has still managed to do well in handling the disease despite being hit hard initially due to how quickly it spread throughout Asia.

Good leadership is good leadership. Covid has been another challenge that Jacinda Adern was handled exceptionally and she should be held up as modern gold standard of what good leadership looks like.I agree about NZ but I once again have to strongly disagree that SK should be held up as a good model of how this should have been handled, their approach has involved massive data protection breaches and invasions of privacy, including making people's medical records public without permission. There is a line.

[Jigs]

Jacinda Ardern is a really great leader tbh. Shame that it took our leader contracting the virus and almost losing his life for him to acknowledge the severity of it all~

[DouglasS]

China has a population of over a billion and has contained it better than we have? What’s the argument in this scenario?

I would say you are very naive if you believe China’s death figures and containment of the virus

[Kizzy]

You kidding me, yes it was if people paid attention!

They were bringing people back from China and isolating them, Zizu was on here every day talking about it

Maybe he should have addressed the people like he did with lockdown but it was well reported in media, when you got back from aboard, we came back from Spain on 20th Feb there were signs up everywhere about self isolating if you had symptoms, people took no notice

Can we have some of this attention paid to the fact there was no testing and no advice for employees as to rights in respect of absence from work for isolation due to covid symptoms.

[Livia]

What do I feel when I watch this video?

I feel relieved that Momentum is as dead in the water as Corbyn. If you want legality and the honest truth, Momentum is last on the list.

If only the geniuses on this forum had been available for consultation at the beginning of this, eh?

[Kizzy]

Coooorrrbbbbyyynnnn.... lol

[Crimson Dynamo]

I would say you are very naive if you believe China’s death figures and containment of the virus

+1

[Marsh.]

Coooorrrbbbbyyynnnn.... lol

:joker:

[Tom4784]

When in doubt, bleat about an ex-labour leader that never got close to power instead of focusing on the actual government we have.

[smudgie]

What do I feel when I watch this video?

I feel relieved that Momentum is as dead in the water as Corbyn. If you want legality and the honest truth, Momentum is last on the list.

If only the geniuses on this forum had been available for consultation at the beginning of this, eh?

I didn’t waste time watching it, Momentum being the source put me off.

[user104658]

I don't care who it's from, but it being sourced from twitty is enough to make it a hard no from me. Like I don't even care what's in it, I've been burned too many times following twitter links. Precious time I can never get back, which I could have spent doing something more worthwhile, like scratching my balls, or watching a cloud drift gently by on a spring breeze.