Justice League - the Snyder Cut is COMING! plus DC movies in general

[Oliver_W]

When it comes to comic book movies, I prefer Marvel as I don't really like their comics. I really do like DC comics though, so I'm hard to please when it comes to the movies.

I still can't stand Man of Steel, but BvS and JL have settled down to being stupid fun/guilty pleasures.

That said, I do think Snyder Cut will be better than what was released. Especially if new footage is made!


"It Will Be an Entirely New Thing": Zack Snyder's $20M-Plus 'Justice League' Cut Plans Revealed

HBO Max will debut the project in 2021 — possibly in a four-hour director's cut or in six TV-style "chapters" — as the helmer gets the gang back together with the original postproduction crew to score, cut and finish visual effects.
It was very early on a Monday morning in November when director Zack Snyder and his wife and producing partner, Deborah Snyder, received a call from their agent. Let’s be a bit more precise: It was 7 a.m. But more importantly, it was the day after the second anniversary of the release of Justice League, the DC superhero movie that Snyder was forced to exit due to a family emergency, which was then substantially reshot and retooled by replacement director Joss Whedon.

In the time since its release, something unusual happened: A growing movement of fans, rallied by the hashtag #ReleasetheSnyderCut, had called, agitated, petitioned — even bought a Times Square billboard and chartered a plane to fly a banner over Comic-Con — for Snyder’s version to be released. And on the film's second anniversary, the hashtag had its biggest day ever — with even the movie's stars Gal Gadot and Ben Affleck adding their voices on Twitter.

So here, the morning after, was their agent saying that Toby Emmerich, chairman of Warner Bros. Pictures, was acknowledging the movement, and more importantly, was willing to accede. "This is real. People out there want it. Would you guys ever consider doing something?" was what Emmerich was asking, Zack Snyder recalls.

The answer to Emmerich's question, a whispered-about secret for months, was revealed Wednesday when Snyder confirmed, at the end of an online screening of his 2013 movie, Man of Steel, that his version of Justice League was indeed real. And that it will be coming to HBO Max, the WarnerMedia digital streaming service launching May 27, and is expected to debut in 2021.

It is currently unclear what form Snyder’s Justice League will take. Whether it will be released as an almost four-hour director’s cut or split into six "chapters" has yet to be decided, but the Snyders are now in the midst of reassembling much of their original postproduction crew to score, cut, add new and finish old visual effects, and, yes, maybe bring back many of the actors to record additional dialogue.

Also unclear is the cost of the endeavor. One source has pegged the effort in the $20 million range, although another source says that figure could be closer to $30 million. The parties involved had no comment.

"It will be an entirely new thing, and, especially talking to those who have seen the released movie, a new experience apart from that movie," Snyder tells The Hollywood Reporter, noting that, to this day, he has not watched the version released in theaters.

"You probably saw one-fourth of what I did," the director notes, basing his judgment on what has been shared with him of Whedon's version.

Before Emmerich came calling, says Snyder, "I always thought it was a thing that in 20 years, maybe somebody would do a documentary and I could lend them the footage, little snippets of a cut no one has ever seen."

But, adds Deborah, "With the new platform and streaming services, you can have something like this. You can’t release something like this theatrically, but you could with a streaming service. It’s an opportunity that wasn’t there two years ago, to be honest."

It is a very unlikely development, and the latest twist for a movie that has, like the Man of Steel himself, seen death and rebirth.

Snyder was in a unique position when he shot Justice League in 2016. Warner Bros. had entrusted its universe of DC characters to one filmmaker — him — and he had been building toward a great onscreen team-up, though not without some bumps in the road. He began with Man of Steel, which grossed $668 million worldwide, then followed up with Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice, the 2016 blockbuster that polarized fans with its dark take on the iconic titular heroes and took in $873 million globally.

In January 2017, Snyder had what he considered his optimal version of Justice League, almost four hours long, although he knew it was something the studio would not release. Warners wanted a cut in the two-hour range, and he delivered a rough version with an approximate two-hour, 20-minute running time. That was the first cut the studio saw. Both sides agreed that there was much work still to be done before the November release, but tragedy struck the Snyders when their daughter, Autumn, died by suicide. A month and a half later, Snyder officially stepped away and Whedon was brought in.

League opened Nov. 17 to weak reviews and sluggish box office, eventually taking in $658 million worldwide. However, almost immediately a movement was born. Fans unhappy with the film created the now-infamous hashtag. A Change.org petition for Warners to release Snyder’s version had already garnered over 100,000 signatures less than five days after the movie’s release.

Forget that the version that fans wanted technically didn’t exist. What did exist was a semi-unfinished work, with no visual effects, no postproduction. One person who had seen that version described it like a car with no panels, just a drivetrain and some seats. And it sat on a hard drive in the Snyders' house. "When we left the movie, I just took the drive of the cut on it," says Snyder. "I honestly never thought it would be anything."

In the year following their daughter's death, the Snyders closed circles around their family as they tried to heal from the tragedy. "The first year was about the milestones and the holidays," recalls Deborah. "Now, it’s not those but other moments, like songs that trigger memories, that hit me unexpectedly."

Adds the director: "As a family, as a couple, I think we have grown in a way that has made us stronger. We’re doing our best. You really can’t hope for more."

The duo also became involved in suicide-prevention charity work and plotted a return to movies with Army of the Dead. Meanwhile, #ReleasetheSnyderCut became more organized and visible, gaining mainstream media attention. Snyder fed into the movement by occasionally teasing images from his movie or storyboards on social media, in some ways only stoking the hot embers. And he saw some of the seeds he planted in his movies, especially in his castings of Gadot as Wonder Woman and Momoa as Aquaman, grow into gardens as the spinoffs became pop culture phenomenons and billion-dollar hits.

It was on the two-year anniversary, however, that the zenith was reached and the hashtag became a top worldwide trend. "#ReleasetheSnyderCut is the most-tweeted hashtag about a movie that WB has ever made, but it’s a movie they’ve never released," says Snyder. "It’s a weird stat but it’s cool."

After the Saturday morning phone call, the Snyders began to move puzzle pieces into place. "We had to figure out what it meant to finish it, and how do you pull it off?" recalls Deborah.

The couple put together a presentation and, in early February, invited a select group of executives from Warner Bros., HBO Max and DC to their house in Pasadena to screen Snyder's little-seen version that was shown in black and white. The number of execs in the room — there were more than a dozen in attendance, ranging from Warners' Emmerich, Carolyn Blackwood and Walter Hamada to HBO Max's Kevin Reilly, Sarah Aubrey and Sandra Dewey to DC's Jim Lee — showed the importance of the potentially extensive undertaking. Heads of physical production and business affairs were there to assess what needed to be done and how much it would cost. At his presentation after the screening, Snyder outlined ideas for not just releasing the cut but the concept of episodes and cliffhangers.

The executives left the meeting pumped. The Snyder Cut was real. Except then it almost wasn’t.

The novel coronavirus struck, and Hollywood all but shut down in mid-March. Says Deborah, "People thought, 'It won’t be possible to ramp up, and that maybe this should go on the back burner.' But we said, 'No, this is the right time' because our visual effects houses that rely on so much are running out of work, so now is the time to be doing this." It also helped that many of those post facilities had held on to the original assets.

Snyder also spent April and this month reaching out to the sizable cast, giving a heads-up on the new development and letting them know their services may be needed. (The first person called: Ray Fisher, who played Cyborg. "He was like, 'You’re kidding me, right?'" recalls the director.)

There is no schedule going forward at this stage for the project as talks are now beginning with postproduction houses, which also gives HBO Max plenty of time to find the best way to present this version of Justice League. Snyder is at the same time in postproduciton on Army of the Dead, his zombie thriller for Netflix that is also to debut in 2021.

For the Snyders, the chance to revisit the movie also brings the prospect for closure on a project they were forced to let go. "This movie was the culmination of a hero’s journey that all these characters went on," says Deborah. "And the idea was always to build them up to be the heroes people expected them to be."

And while the cut will contain the many elements Snyder has teased over time (yes, expect Darkseid), the duo also relish adding a fair amount of character development: "What’s so lovely about this is that we get to explore these characters in ways that you’re not able to in a shorter theatrical version."

The Snyders know that fan power is what led to the Snyder Cut becoming a reality. "Clearly this wouldn’t be happening without them," says the director. He also credits Warners for living up to its old reputation as the filmmaker’s studio.

Adds Snyder, "This return to that pedigree and to let my singular vision of my movie be realized, in this format, in this length, is unprecedented and a brave move."

[user104658]

I'm hyped for it, I like Snyder's over-long over-stylised stuff :shrug:. I can't help it. I even like Sucker Punch.

What will happen if it does well though... They had all but given up on the current iteration of the JL - but then Aquaman did very well (largely thanks to Momoa's popularity), but Henry Cavill's popularity and star appeal has been rising steadily as well. They even had Ezra Miller's "Flash" cameo in the Arrowverse Flash (Crisis) which was somehow kept totally under wraps until it aired.

But then you have the sticking point of Batfleck being done and dusted and Pattman taking over, and I highly doubt it'll be to play the same version... I'm imagining Pattinson will be playing an earlier "peak" Batman, not Affleck's "Been there, done that, locked all the villains in Arkham and just about ready to retire" Batman.

I can see them wanting to do more JL stuff but not sure how they'll pull it together.

[The Slim Reaper]

Think it's quite brave. The Snyder cut has been almost mythologised after the disappointing release.

[Oliver_W]

I'm hyped for it, I like Snyder's over-long over-stylised stuff :shrug:. I can't help it. I even like Sucker Punch.
Oh same, I like all his other stuff, but like I said I get a bit ... the only word is aspergersish :joker: ... about things I like, and when they don't fit into the comics "world" I got annoyed. BvS and JL have grown on me, and it's the stuff which seems to be the reshoots I don't like from JL.

I think I read somewhere Caville is staying on as Supes, so if Snyder wanted to film new parts with him at least it'd be technically possible.

I didn't know how much was filmed before Whatshisface took over, but from the sounds of it Snyder had enough raw footage to whittle something together?

[Oliver_W]

But then you have the sticking point of Batfleck being done and dusted and Pattman taking over, and I highly doubt it'll be to play the same version... I'm imagining Pattinson will be playing an earlier "peak" Batman, not Affleck's "Been there, done that, locked all the villains in Arkham and just about ready to retire" Batman.

I can see them wanting to do more JL stuff but not sure how they'll pull it together.
They could do a "Flashpoint" movie. In the comics they a big crossover thing centered around the Flash to reboot a lot of the storylines, while also keeping them intact. I guess that description doesn't make a ton of sense :joker:

Think it's quite brave. The Snyder cut has been almost mythologised after the disappointing release.
I just hope it lives up to it!!

[Tom4784]

I can't say I'm too excited about it, Man of Steel and BvS are solid 6/10s or 7/10s at a push but he never really understood the source material that well. Justice League was just a bad film and I don't think anything can truly save it.

[Tom4784]

They could do a "Flashpoint" movie. In the comics they a big crossover thing centered around the Flash to reboot a lot of the storylines, while also keeping them intact. I guess that description doesn't make a ton of sense :joker:


I just hope it lives up to it!!

It's rumoured that WW84 might have nicked the flashpoint storyline to an extent, I believe.

[Oliver_W]

It's rumoured that WW84 might have nicked the flashpoint storyline to an extent, I believe.
Oh cool, I hadn't heard that!!

[user104658]

I can't say I'm too excited about it, Man of Steel and BvS are solid 6/10s or 7/10s at a push but he never really understood the source material that well. Justice League was just a bad film and I don't think anything can truly save it.The worst part of JL for me though is that it feels cobbled together... Because it is cobbled together. Other major downfalls are Flash being clumsy and underpowered, and just the general lack of character development. Aquaman, Flash solo, a solo Batman and maybe even the second WW should have come before they even started filming JL. They got impatient wanting to compete with Avengers. Ironically (Covid aside), NOW would be the right time to be geari g up for JL because although it's not exactly what they intended... Marvel feels very much "complete" at the moment after Endgame. They would have a clear field.

[Oliver_W]

(think I'll turn this into a general DC movies thread)

I hope the Batman movie isn't going to be too early in his career, there's no real need for an origin story - I'm pretty sure Batman's origin is in "everyone knows" territory, so they'd be better off just getting on with it.

I'm not a member any comicsy forums or anything - comics online fandom is awful :joker: - but a comparison I read somewhere was James Bond. Whenever the lead changes, they don't start his career from the beginning. He just gets on with Bondy things.

The Zero Year comics were good. It was right after Bruce started being Batman, but before he had any Robins or met most of his enemies, etc. Actually, Riddler was one of the main villains in that story, and he's going to be in The Batman, so that could be a good shout!

[Tony Montana]

Excited for this! I loved Snyder's director's cut of Watchmen and Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice and I'm certain this will be just as good.

[Tony Montana]

The worst part of JL for me though is that it feels cobbled together... Because it is cobbled together. Other major downfalls are Flash being clumsy and underpowered, and just the general lack of character development. Aquaman, Flash solo, a solo Batman and maybe even the second WW should have come before they even started filming JL. They got impatient wanting to compete with Avengers. Ironically (Covid aside), NOW would be the right time to be geari g up for JL because although it's not exactly what they intended... Marvel feels very much "complete" at the moment after Endgame. They would have a clear field.

Yeah, by the time JL arrived in 2017, Marvel were on phase 3, and it looked like DC were playing catch up. They should've just given them all solo films first and then made a JL film.

[user104658]

Yeah, by the time JL arrived in 2017, Marvel were on phase 3, and it looked like DC were playing catch up. They should've just given them all solo films first and then made a JL film.Especially as I'm not sure that Marvel are going to go down the route of "big full team ups" for a while now that we've had endgame. It's going to stay a combined universe but I think it'll mainly be in the vein of crossover characters e.g. Black Widow in Winter Soldier, Hulk in Thor Ragnarok, Iron Man in Spidey Homecoming, and the upcoming Doc Strange with Wanda... Maybe Thor/Guardians?

But yeah, I think the big Avengers-style team up films are not going to feature for Marvel for quite a while now, and that would have been the perfect opportunity to hype Justice League as its own thing rather than "competing".

[user104658]

(think I'll turn this into a general DC movies thread)

I hope the Batman movie isn't going to be too early in his career, there's no real need for an origin story - I'm pretty sure Batman's origin is in "everyone knows" territory, so they'd be better off just getting on with it.

I'm not a member any comicsy forums or anything - comics online fandom is awful :joker: - but a comparison I read somewhere was James Bond. Whenever the lead changes, they don't start his career from the beginning. He just gets on with Bondy things.

The Zero Year comics were good. It was right after Bruce started being Batman, but before he had any Robins or met most of his enemies, etc. Actually, Riddler was one of the main villains in that story, and he's going to be in The Batman, so that could be a good shout!I doubt it'll be an origin story, Rpatz isn't THAT young (mid-30's) so I'd imagine an "established Batman" but they'll definitely be going for an earlier batman than the "bruised and broken" Affleck Batman who (it is at least strongly implied) had already put away all of his major villains pre-BvS.

I hope they stick with the overall style from BvS though and don't tone down the violence. BvS batman was snapping limbs and cracking skulls and it was great :joker:.

[Oliver_W]

I hope they stick with the overall style from BvS though and don't tone down the violence. BvS batman was snapping limbs and cracking skulls and it was great :joker:.

As long as he doesn't kill!!

[user104658]

As long as he doesn't kill!!What the extended ultimate edition fight scene where he's saving Martha (Clark's one, obviously)... I don't think they explicitly show deaths but some of those guys are clearly ****ing dead :joker:. Or at least paralysed for life or in a coma. At one point he hits a guy so hard that he flips and lands on his head. It's great :joker:

[Oliver_W]

What the extended ultimate edition fight scene where he's saving Martha (Clark's one, obviously)... I don't think they explicitly show deaths but some of those guys are clearly ****ing dead :joker:. Or at least paralysed for life or in a coma. At one point he hits a guy so hard that he flips and lands on his head. It's great :joker:

I still need to watched the extended BvS!! I was reading online that the studio wanted the runtime cut down, and due to things needing to be set up a lot of the stuff cut was plot related things, or something.

In the Batman comic I'm on now he's fixated with breaking Bane's back :joker: Well sort of, if Bane doesn't release the guy who can cure Gotham Girl.

[user104658]

I still need to watched the extended BvS!! I was reading online that the studio wanted the runtime cut down, and due to things needing to be set up a lot of the stuff cut was plot related things, or something.


They cut about 35 mins for the theatrical cut - the main issue is that they didn't cut full scenes/rework things to achieve that... they cut little bits here, little bits there, and the end result was a film that was choppy and seemed to jump from scene to scene like it had ADHD. The ultimate edition just has a much better "flow" to it and, as a result, weaves a far superior story. IIRC there were also a few Lex scenes cut from the theatrical version that made his motivations seem really unclear to the point of being random/chaotic which is obviously not the character at all, but when they're back in there you can see the ways that he's much more cold, intelligent and calculating. The most VITAL difference being that it becomes clear that Lex has had a major role in deliberately tweaking things here and there, and pulling little strings, that have contributed to Bruce's idea that Superman is dangerous and lead him down the path he's on in BvS. Which is sort of an essential plot point if you give a **** about the lore at all.

I still don't particularly rate Jesse Eisenberg's interpretation of the character, but it at least vastly improves my impression of how it was written.

I find it quite interesting really just from a "film-fan" perspective. No one cut that was made is huge on its own, yet the restored version is in my opinion a FAR superior film. Part of why I'm so hyped/fascinated to see the new JL cut where by all accounts the changes were much bigger.


Obligatory to add though: "Hey lol both of our mums are called Martha?" is still the dumbest and least plausible reason for the fighting to suddenly stop and Bats+Supes to become BFF's I can imagine. I know it's supposed to be indicative of a "light bulb" moment for Bruce realising that there's a man with a whole other life under the cape, and he's not just the god-like figure in the cape... but it doesn't land right. The writing there is so bad :umm2:. Wish they'd do a third cut where they replace that with some longer exposition :joker:.

Oh a final point: Steppenwolf was briefly introduced (communicating with Luthor) and that was also cut... which had the knock-on effect of making his introduction in JL seem totally random. I have no idea why they'd cut foreshadowing like that from the theatrical release. Just lots of very odd choices. There are plenty of other scenes that could have been snipped or shortened to whittle away 30 mins... but they chose loads of story-critical stuff. I feel like whoever did the cutting decided that they were keeping all of the action intact, so all of the cuts had to come from the plot. Which was a mistake.

Funnily enough... these days I think they'd just have left the film at 3h in the cinema :shrug:. There was an idea at the time that audiences wouldn't tolerate a film longer than 2.5h. It's still sort of a thing I guess - they did consider chopping Infinity War/Endgame into a trilogy of shorter movies instead of a two-parter, too.

[Oliver_W]

I'm convinced, I'm gonna watch the extended cut of BvS asap :D

Yeah Lex came off like the Joker or something. If the Snyderverse version of him was meant to be a bit of a basketcase I could (reluctantly!) go along with it, but I don't really think that's what he was going for.

Oh I didn't know Steppenwolf was originally in BvS, I thought his role in JL was originally going to be Darkseid, but he was replaced after Snyder left?
It'd be cool if the Female Furies were fighting the Amazonians, They recently had a pretty decent comic miniseries by Cecil Castellucci, and having them cameo could open the door for a future movie.

Like I said in the "last movie watched" thread, I do prefer the animated DC movies over the live action ones.

[Oliver_W]

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/nSuAyz9BNQu3aaqvhKJ_DbKeBwFBk9o_ZZzny0lHCx5qIYOpf2 w82Z3pE4RhgN7KcTgTguQxOqTk=s0
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/K3zf7smeFNpuVcpaIn-Ri1gVBzLNspL9wpfD5lrVl4VnVTjh3WPY1NEdQK3JJDzUO9DXJ zq-zOEn=s0

Love this, the three then-future Robins and Batgirl being inspired by the then-new Bat Light <3

[Oliver_W]

u77M-oANRtQ

Gahh it looks sooo good! And is blatantly a completely different movie to the #HollywoodHackCut from Whedon :joker:

Darkseid looks badass but I hope his CGI isn't finished yet because it's not great :laugh:

[user104658]

I'm just pondering how much footage they must have shot for the film - there's basically NOTHING in the trailer that's in the original film :think:. I think maybe the Aquaman-big-waves scene and that's it.

I wouldn't hold out too much hope for the CGI - it's probably not going to be quite big-screen-quality since TV effects never are, they just don't have the same budget. They can be pretty decent these days though and will likely still have some polishing up to do. Also while DC does superhero-effects very well IMO, their facial CGI is a bit "video gamey" compared to the Marvel movies... they just don't have those Disney-quality animators to lean on.

[Tom4784]

Yeah, I'm quite stunned about how much footage must have went unused, especially if there's enough to fill up multiple parts since they're releasing the film as a four part series, I believe so that's likely four hours of content.

I still don't hold out much hope of it being good, though. Man of Steel was passable and BVS was decent but Snyder's never really understood the DC universe and it's characters and I can't see it changing in this either.

[Smithy]

I'm just pondering how much footage they must have shot for the film - there's basically NOTHING in the trailer that's in the original film :think:. I think maybe the Aquaman-big-waves scene and that's it.

I wouldn't hold out too much hope for the CGI - it's probably not going to be quite big-screen-quality since TV effects never are, they just don't have the same budget. They can be pretty decent these days though and will likely still have some polishing up to do. Also while DC does superhero-effects very well IMO, their facial CGI is a bit "video gamey" compared to the Marvel movies... they just don't have those Disney-quality animators to lean on.

90% of the film was scrapped and reshot

[Oliver_W]

There was tons of reshoots, and last I heard some new footage will be shot too.

[user104658]

There was tons of reshoots, and last I heard some new footage will be shot too.

I did read that - I'd be very surprised if it's action/"hero-mode" stuff though, more likely to be out-of-costume "character" scenes to build the characters and their relationships. Not that that's a bad thing - it's a large part of what made the movie not work (seeming like they were a bunch of people who had just met and couldn't give a stuff about each other, rather than a cohesive team).

[user104658]

They're blatantly rebooting with the Flash movie anyway, though I personally suspect we'll see more of Caville as Superman, despite rumours of him leaving.

[Oliver_W]

I love Caville as Supes. I do hope he sticks around for a long time!

While I'd love the CGI to improve, it doesn't personally bother me, I just know it'll be used as a stick to beat it with :joker:


I'm disappointed the dude who plays Cyborg is coming for Geoff Johns - GJ is one of my favourite comicbook writers, so I automatically take his side and disbelieve Cyborg :laugh: apparently Snyder planned for him to be much more of a main character, and Joss Whedon changed that, so I can see why he's unhappy! Especially as a relatively new actor.

[user104658]

I love Caville as Supes. I do hope he sticks around for a long time!

While I'd love the CGI to improve, it doesn't personally bother me, I just know it'll be used as a stick to beat it with :joker:


I'm disappointed the dude who plays Cyborg is coming for Geoff Johns - GJ is one of my favourite comicbook writers, so I automatically take his side and disbelieve Cyborg :laugh: apparently Snyder planned for him to be much more of a main character, and Joss Whedon changed that, so I can see why he's unhappy! Especially as a relatively new actor.

Based on the trailer it looks like a lot of his backstory was filmed by Snyder... there's basically none of it in the original JW cut - it's briefly outlined in a conversation :think:.

[Tony Montana]

pmWkfL8u858

[Tony Montana]

Looks really cool. And it looks like they've done Leto's Joker justice.

[user104658]

Looks really cool. And it looks like they've done Leto's Joker justice.The one thing that bothers me is that they did some small reshoots with Leto, apparently... And it seems pretty clear that they've been done to shift this version of the joker more in line with the (vastly more popular) Phoenix-joker from the MRA Joker film. It is a better version of the character, but I wonder how they'll make it a smooth transition with the established Leto joker... Will it make sense? Or will it be obvious retconning, and thus, jarring?

[Oliver_W]

the MRA Joker film.

... Really?

Step away from the internet and get some sunlight :joker:

[Smithy]

https://twitter.com/discussingfilm/status/1365369283463806978?s=21

4 hours :skull:

[Nicky91]

keep this 4 hour long piece of trash pls

[user104658]

... Really?



Step away from the internet and get some sunlight :joker:It panders to the fantasy of basement-dwelling cucks and it completely misses the point of the character. Taking "the avatar of chaos" and turning him into "a frustrated sadsack with mummy issues".

Its a good FILM but it's a terrible version of The Joker and you know it :hmph:

[user104658]

https://twitter.com/discussingfilm/status/1365369283463806978?s=21

4 hours :skull:The runtime doesn't really matter as it's not a theatrical release, it's purely on digital streaming... Watch it as a 4 hour movie, two 2-hour movies, four 1-hour episodes... :shrug:.

Is it being released as a 4 hour movie? I do think it might have been better split into a 4-episode limited series but as above... That would only be to avoid the "omg it's so long" confusion. How to watch it would still be viewer's choice.

Its unlikely I'll watch it as one 4-hour block unless the kids are back to school (because I literally don't HAVE a 4-hour uninterrupted block of time [emoji23] ), but I probably would watch it in one sitting otherwise.

[Tom4784]

I do think it's gonna be a massive disappointment. People are forgetting that Zack Snyder handled BvS (which I liked at the time, but not so much these days), and Man of Steel was only decent.

[user104658]

I do think it's gonna be a massive disappointment. People are forgetting that Zack Snyder handled BvS (which I liked at the time, but not so much these days), and Man of Steel was only decent.

It looks significantly better than the original cut, even just in visual terms so I think it'll be at the very least interesting to compare and contrast.

https://www.batmannews.de/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Steppenwolf_Compare.jpg

[Tom4784]

The aesthetics were never the issue with Snyder's offerings, tbh. I just don't know if there's actually anything to work with to create a good cohesive film, especially when it looks like they're just throwing everything into it.

The original Justice League felt overly long and it was under two hours, I think this will end up being a slog.

[Oliver_W]

I can be a bit of a book purist (damn you Peej for leaving out Bombadil :fist: ) so it took a while for me to get over the fact the Snyderverse isn't exactly like the comics :laugh: someone suggested that the Synderverse fits better into the Dark Knight Returns comics line more than the "main", which it totally does.

At the end of the day ... none of it "actually" happened and I can either enjoy seeing a visual representation of something I like to read ... or I can bitch about it :joker:

That's a long winded way of saying I don't exactly care which one turns out to be better, but i'm glad Snyder gets to finish his story, especially when a)he left because his daughter took her own life and b)he was replaced by a Hollywood hack Whedon, he turned out to be a complete twat.

[user104658]

I can be a bit of a book purist (damn you Peej for leaving out Bombadil :fist: ) so it took a while for me to get over the fact the Snyderverse isn't exactly like the comics :laugh: someone suggested that the Synderverse fits better into the Dark Knight Returns comics line more than the "main", which it totally does.

At the end of the day ... none of it "actually" happened and I can either enjoy seeing a visual representation of something I like to read ... or I can bitch about it :joker:

That's a long winded way of saying I don't exactly care which one turns out to be better, but i'm glad Snyder gets to finish his story, especially when a)he left because his daughter took her own life and b)he was replaced by a Hollywood hack Whedon, he turned out to be a complete twat.

I randomly saw ol' Xander (Nicholas Brendon) in a film earlier tonight and decided to look him up with all of the domestic abuse allegations etc... but instead ended up going down a Whedon rabbit hole as, apparently, a tonne of people have come out with some not-so-great stuff about him very recently starting with the actress who played Cordelia in Buffy and Angel... but now quite a few other Buffy cast and crew, plus a few from the Justice League production (including Gal Gadot) have confirmed he's... umm... not great to work with.

The most concerning is that there was an "unofficial" rule amongt set staff on Buffy that they'd make sure he was never alone in a room with the actress who played Dawn... who was 15 at the time :umm2:. Doesn't elaborate other than to say he had made "inappropriate comments" around her and they decided to be on the safe side. Worrying!

Buffy herself SMG also made some vague supportive comments and has said that "she'll always be proud to be associated with the name Buffy Summers, but does not want to be forever associated with the name Joss Whedon."


So yeah... I feel like PURELY to stick it to Whedon, it's good that a version of JL is being made that hasn't been touched by him. Snyder has basically said that he butchered it, right down to leaving entire scenes out simply because they couldn't get the visuals to gel with his "newly filmed stuff" that had been done on different tech, but he refused to cut his own new scenes. I STRONGLY suspect that this is why a lot of the CGI is so poor.

[Oliver_W]

So yeah... I feel like PURELY to stick it to Whedon, it's good that a version of JL is being made that hasn't been touched by him. Snyder has basically said that he butchered it, right down to leaving entire scenes out simply because they couldn't get the visuals to gel with his "newly filmed stuff" that had been done on different tech, but he refused to cut his own new scenes. I STRONGLY suspect that this is why a lot of the CGI is so poor.
I hadn't thought of the new tech thing, movie making technology moves on pretty quick, it makes sense even in the relatively short amount of time the original footage was filmed ago, new stuff might not gel.

I've never heard anything really bad about Snyder. For a while I thought he might be the brother of Scott Snyder, who wrote Batman and JL comics. I mean ... This scene looks like it's roasting BvS for all the destruction their fight caused with no concern for citizens :joker:
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/7acNbxUO9j-uCWYoyC4rFFioY2RBvwURhME0ahWwHq9J0la-V9Go1ASMBoPowGDEwPC8N6EDp_DwlpUS2qQssSBcL14osf9RaP x8WCGd--K4wrZDoiV70qWGxC8tT1yZGmq4VA=s1600
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/6M2pJNwFgQdhpJW7k3WOp7aW2_-vT6PbxfNudGCo9mu9vQSPNz0LOtEf9qCHltOhBrhDdW_D9Ft2q 7JI0Cd2LN-nppSI0oqHpkgI7VpzhSuVuBIpzyV077jUW6JKBP2ZD41X0g=s1 600
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/rsR5UfnTCyK3JWUzDEQ2zBXF7ujeqa8AD-Sb10g-tyAK9Fpnkq67P9NoexjbUWal5pxUJTnz7H_TcXxL1mG2eAMqen RBLHRQZIe_0FiHivlgojC6PU8_JcHroiTGsLcxTVnyWA=s1600
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/K7EL0bjy3DnoNa-Hp2Qu77eISt0qHQVL8NbJIkVvVk-enp6cit62caD83W07-nViF7sfhmjjJX21gtqQCSxijMEOjWPGrmynsruRcIgwgkp55b2 tLYKr-0LmLK-hRgQDxTfjlw=s1600
But apparently they're not related and it's just a coincidence!


The most concerning is that there was an "unofficial" rule amongt set staff on Buffy that they'd make sure he was never alone in a room with the actress who played Dawn... who was 15 at the time :umm2:. Doesn't elaborate other than to say he had made "inappropriate comments" around her and they decided to be on the safe side. Worrying!


I guess the USA has different rules to the UK, but I occasionally do child protection work with the BBC, and kids under 16 literally aren't allowed to be left alone with anyone who's not a licensed chaperone; that includes directors and older actors. And that's from the time they're dropped off by their parents (or whoever) until they're picked up.

So as much as I'd like to Whedon-bash, that particular rule could have been an official one?

[user104658]

To be "fair" the accusations against Whedon aren't criminal in nature, more just about how awful he was to work for. Basically that he'd have his "favourites" who were "in" and then anyone else, he would treat like dirt/mock/belittle/gaslight and also you could be one of "the in group" one day, but then if you did something he didn't like, you'd be "out" until he decided otherwise. Has been described as running a "toxic workplace" basically and it seems that it's an ongoing thing, as people on his shows have said it was like that in the early 2000's and now people who worked on JL have said it was still like that when he took over there (so 2016-ish I guess?).

[user104658]

I've never heard anything really bad about Snyder. For a while I thought he might be the brother of Scott Snyder, who wrote Batman and JL comics. I mean ... This scene looks like it's roasting BvS for all the destruction their fight caused with no concern for citizens :joker:


Isn't that basically the whole plot of BvS though? Batman is not happy with Supes because his battle with Zod at the end of Man of Steel caused massive collateral damage in Metropolis, including destroying a Wayne building and killing civilians and staff... Which is why he decides Superman is dangerous and has to go. For his own fight with him he specifically lures him to an abandoned part of Gotham.

[Oliver_W]

Isn't that basically the whole plot of BvS though? Batman is not happy with Supes because his battle with Zod at the end of Man of Steel caused massive collateral damage in Metropolis, including destroying a Wayne building and killing civilians and staff... Which is why he decides Superman is dangerous and has to go. For his own fight with him he specifically lures him to an abandoned part of Gotham.

I can't remember BvS that well, so I'm happy to eat my words if I remembered wrong and Batman at least had some concern for civilians.

[user104658]

I can't remember BvS that well, so I'm happy to eat my words if I remembered wrong and Batman at least had some concern for civilians.Yeah, his whole reason for wanting Supes dead was his assumption that he had no concern for civilians (thought of himself as a god, people as small and irrelevant etc.)... Which of course lead to the stupid "Our mums are both called Martha!" scene which was basically a ham-fisted way of Batman realising that Superman was also living as "a person" with a family etc. and cared about them.

The longer cut of course did a better job of explaining that Lex Luthor had been manipulating things to make Superman look guilty and turn them against each other. In the theatrical cut it really looked like Batman was just being a bit dumb.

[user104658]

So this thread sent me down a DC movies rabbit hole this morning... Apparently, Batfleck isn't done with after all? I thought he quit? But now I'm reading that he's in the Flash movie next year (possible cameos from other Batmen too; Keaton and Bale - as Flash is bringing in the multiverse) and also depending on the success of the Snyder cut, Cavill and Affleck are in talks about a "Worlds Finest" thing together (unclear if theatrical movie or HBO Max miniseries).

I've also heard rumours of them looking st casting Michael B Jordan as the first black Superman, but not as a recast, as an alternate universe Supes existing alongside Cavill's established one, and also that Batfleck and Battinson will co-exist... But there are plans for Cavill's Superman to work alongside R Patz's Batman at some point. :umm2:. Both Leto and Phoenix's jokers would also be Canon, as well as a likely 3rd Joker at some point for Pattinson. I feel like it's all getting very complicated, haha.

Not to mention that the Flash crossover with the CW's DC shows means that all of the DCTV stuff is official as well - so that means all three of the Brandon Routh, Tom Welling and Tyler Hoechlin supermens are all technically canon too. Hmmmm.

[Nicky91]

4 hours is just too long (just overkill i mean 3 hours is already too long, a reason why i have never watched any of Lord of the rings or the hobbit) :idc:


best is 2 hours 30, or 2 hours 45

for any of a ''franchise'' movie that is

[Oliver_W]

So this thread sent me down a DC movies rabbit hole this morning... Apparently, Batfleck isn't done with after all? I thought he quit? But now I'm reading that he's in the Flash movie next year (possible cameos from other Batmen too; Keaton and Bale - as Flash is bringing in the multiverse) and also depending on the success of the Snyder cut, Cavill and Affleck are in talks about a "Worlds Finest" thing together (unclear if theatrical movie or HBO Max miniseries).

I've also heard rumours of them looking st casting Michael B Jordan as the first black Superman, but not as a recast, as an alternate universe Supes existing alongside Cavill's established one, and also that Batfleck and Battinson will co-exist... But there are plans for Cavill's Superman to work alongside R Patz's Batman at some point. :umm2:. Both Leto and Phoenix's jokers would also be Canon, as well as a likely 3rd Joker at some point for Pattinson. I feel like it's all getting very complicated, haha.

Not to mention that the Flash crossover with the CW's DC shows means that all of the DCTV stuff is official as well - so that means all three of the Brandon Routh, Tom Welling and Tyler Hoechlin supermens are all technically canon too. Hmmmm.
I'm not sure what's going on with the black Superman thing - a few years back Michael B Jordan wanted to do a black Supes project, but it didn't happen for whatever reason. The upcoming Supes is being produced by JJ Abrams, and written by Ta-Nehisi Coates; I've not read anything by him, but from what little I've heard he's quite "Woke".

But yeah, I think his being the writer is the reason people think it's gonna be a Black Superman.

[Oliver_W]

Real life footage of Joss Whedon now

https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5150&stc=1&d=1616072282

[Tom4784]

I've heard it's a vast improvement on Whedon's version but four hours is a big timesink. I dunno if I have the energy to watch it.

[Barry.]

I've heard it's a vast improvement on Whedon's version but four hours is a big timesink. I dunno if I have the energy to watch it.

I’m going to watch it in parts.

[Oliver_W]

I've heard it's a vast improvement on Whedon's version but four hours is a big timesink. I dunno if I have the energy to watch it.

I’m going to watch it in parts.

I'm more of a reader than a watcher so a lot of the time I get bored of a normal movie and watch it in chunks :joker: and the Snyder Cut was going to be a miniseries, so one may as well watch it an hour at a time or so.

[user104658]

I'm more of a reader than a watcher so a lot of the time I get bored of a normal movie and watch it in chunks :joker: and the Snyder Cut was going to be a miniseries, so one may as well watch it an hour at a time or so.

From what I've read, although they decided on keeping it as one long movie rather than "officially" dividing it up, it is still divided into distinct "chapters" (6 I think I read?) roughly the length of a TV show episode (40-45 mins) to give obvious "pause points" for people who don't want to or can't watch it all in one go.

I personally like long movies and can easily watch one all in one go... the issue for me is that it's VERY rare that I have 4 hours of uninterrupted free time to actually do that these days :joker:. Guess I could pretend to be sick one day when the kids are at school :laugh:. So much harder to "pull a sickie" working from home though, you have to pretend to be properly half-dead or people still try to message you :fist:.

[user104658]

Just finished it and I can't lie I thought it was awesome. It honestly didn't even feel over-long, although the first 3 parts basically fit in a load of content that could have been expanded into entire movies in themselves (e.g. there's practically an entire Cyborg origin movie scattered throughout the runtime).

But the one major thing that it has done - and it actually makes me feel sort of mad about WHedon's changes in this sense thinking back on it - is that it respects the others and isn't just a Superman fan-fest. Whedon turned Flash into a joke - he has moments of comic relief here but is NOT an incompetent rookie. Whedon (criminally) depowered WW and she absolutely kicks butt in this film, back to the power level she should be at in this timeframe (i.e. as strong as she was in BvS). Cyborg's abilities get a much bigger showcase, too. Basically the entire final sequence is epic and shows all of them as competent and powerful, and Supes is NOT used as a deus-ex-machina to swoop in. AND YET at the same time, Steppenwolf is a much more intimidating and convincing (and generally well fleshed out) villain, with clear goals and motivations.

More specifically but a bit spoilers;

WW's intro action sequence is awesome, and she goes toe-to-toe quite competently with Steppenwolf MULTIPLE TIMES throughout the film, and WW and Aquaman together are basically shown as being a pretty even match for Steppenwolf (and could probably beat him, in other circumstances). I can't figure out why Whedon wouldn't want to showcase this version of WW.

Same goes for The Flash - the bumbling, incompetent Flash is - it seems - basically Whedon's creation? His powers were dampened significantly in the theatrical film and in the final battle he's relegated to "helping some civilians in a car". He plays a massive, pivotal role here! It's also made quite clear that he's significantly faster than Superman... even in that first Superman sequence (which is again just overall so much better... and it was one of my favourite scenes from the original) it's shown that Supes can't actually keep up with him, he can see him and swing at him but it's "sluggish" with Flash still able to easily dodge the blows, he just makes the error of trying to shove Superman back and ****s himself up because obviously it's like hitting a wall. Also in the finale he runs at, and eventually exceeding, light speed so... yeah... Whedon did him wrowng too. I feel like Joss Whedon actively fangirls Superman and it really shows in his cut, and is a massive detriment to the entire film. This feels like an actual team of superheroes where everyone has a part to play, and that's how Justice League should be, not a B-team of incompetents who need Superman to save the day.

But yeah in general... the changes in the final act really are staggering. Completely different movie. And some of the stuff that was left out - the whole Batmobile sequence! :omgno: amazing, HOW could you leave that on the cutting room floor? I can only imagine it was unfinished and was one of the sequences that they finished up for this. Also there are NO civilians to be saved and it doesn't need them, so no silly scenes with Flash pushing a car along while Supes carries an entire building :facepalm:.

But yeah tl;dr this is definite catharsis for any DC fan who doesn't just stan Superman, because it actually respects and elevates the other heroes and not just one.

If I had one minus it would probably be that there is some very occasional cheesy dialogue that feels a little out of place. But the general pacing is so good, and the action is so on-point, it's easily overlooked.

I also am unsure that the "epilogue" stuff was needed now that the DCEU has spun off in other directions, it feels like it was purely setting up stuff that is now not going to happen, and could just have been left off completely?

It was basically setting up Injustice, even hinting at it being an alternate timeline which Injustice is in comic form, and while it could in theory be epic it's not realistically happening is it so why go there :hmph:.

[Oliver_W]

I'm still yet to see it but everything you said TS makes me happy :D

I prefer Wally West Flash but yeah, neither are the bumbling fool Whedon presents. In most cases he is faster than Supes, but to the be it can depend on the writer. I liked that WW and Aquaman worked together, they do that a fair bit as neither have full time civilian identities.

[user104658]

Also not to go on about Snyder cinematography (and I am a self-confessed fan) BUT come on, you just don't get screenshots like this from yucky Whedon League do you. Obviously plenty of the same influence is there but literally all of the best shots of the movie are new to this version. I've left off one of my personal favs as it's a massive final-battle spoiler :omgno:. The two below are not really spoilery.

https://i.imgur.com/8GrE2Ge.png

https://i.imgur.com/jrwPavD.png

Also a shot where Barry literally bursts out of his shoes immediately preceding this because he moves so fast when he sees the crash (hence bare feet here). Just an epic little touch that makes all the difference :shrug:

[Oliver_W]

Loving the Dark Knight Returns Batmobile :dance:

The Josstice League is officially dead.

[Oliver_W]

Ooo there's gonna be a movie with/about Zatanna :D She's one of my favourite minor Leaguers <3

I've not seen Promising Young Woman, any good? It's gonna be by Emerald Fennell, the writer-director of that.

Her history in comics is a bit dark:
Sue Dibny, the wife of Elongated Man, was (apparently) murdered by a villain called Dr Light. A lot of the younger heroes (like the Titans etc and newer JLA members) were shocked by this, as up to that point he'd basically been a joke villain...
... But he was a joke villain because he was basically lobotomised by Zatanna's magic several years ago, after he broke into the JLA's headquarters and raped Sue. The no-kill rule was in place, but none of the JLA could bear the thought of imprisoning him or letting him go, so they came up with that idea.
The vote was split, with Batman as the tie-breaker. He was against it. But they did it anyway, and Zatanna erased his memories of the event. She did the same with Superman, as he'd be likely to tell Bruce.

I will add, it sounds "women in refrigerators", but it's not. Sue's death wasn't a plot device to drive Elongated's emotions, it was a catalyst which was the first of a handful of people close to hero's being hit.
I've not read Identity Crisis in ages so some of the details might be a bit wrong, but that's the gist of it!

I just googled Promising Young Woman, and Emerald Fennell clearly doesn't shy away from rape related things, so I wouldn't discount them using that book as a framework for the movie, but who knows!

[arista]

The 240mins Movie


Zack walked away from this Movie
but due to popular demand went back
Zack Snyder's Definitive cut.


8PM tonight till Midnight SkyPremiereHD



I will record it.

[Alf]

Sounds awful!

[Zizu]

Sounds awful!



It’s absolutely brilliant !!




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[arista]

Yes longer version.

[Zizu]

Yes longer version.



With many extended scenes , lots of brand new footage also


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[arista]

With many extended scenes , lots of brand new footage also






With so much time
they could have done a 3-D Version
as an addition.
For those that like 3-D.


I know you do not

[arista]

The aesthetics were never the issue with Snyder's offerings, tbh. I just don't know if there's actually anything to work with to create a good cohesive film, especially when it looks like they're just throwing everything into it.

The original Justice League felt overly long and it was under two hours, I think this will end up being a slog.


Yes Hard to watch in one go
uses 4.6 of my Hard Drive on SkyHD


I watched in 2 halfs.

[arista]

There was tons of reshoots, and last I heard some new footage will be shot too.


Yes there sure was.


On SkyMoviesHD all week

[Zizu]

With so much time

they could have done a 3-D Version

as an addition.

For those that like 3-D.





I know you do not



True :)

It’s getting far better viewer ratings on IMDB so I’m thinking there may be a sequel / follow up eventually... given that money talks


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[Zizu]

Yes Hard to watch in one go

uses 4.6 of my Hard Drive on SkyHD





I watched in 2 halfs.



I watched it in THREE goes :)

The only bits I could have done without were the lovey-dovey sequence with Superman and Lois Lane plus that Batman dream section


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[Oliver_W]

TtswU-tBq6g
I'm still yet to watch the movie itself, but this scene is absolutely gorgeous.

[Zizu]

TtswU-tBq6g
I'm still yet to watch the movie itself, but this scene is absolutely gorgeous.



Yes I agree totally.. one of my favourites


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[user104658]

TtswU-tBq6g
I'm still yet to watch the movie itself, but this scene is absolutely gorgeous.


Yeah that was a standout for me, that’s the scene I took one of my screenshots from. It’s a stand-alone great piece of cinematography, I have no idea why they wouldn’t find room to squeeze it into the theatrical cut, other than a couple of things I guess... one is that it might have been hard to crop well for the cinema aspect ratio. I was a bit alarmed when I heard the Snyder cut was presented in 4:3 (old TV ratio) but after a couple of action sequences... I completely get it and why it actually works so much better for this types of movies. They can do so much with the verticality of that space. Beautiful.

[user104658]

I watched it in THREE goes :)

The only bits I could have done without were the lovey-dovey sequence with Superman and Lois Lane plus that Batman dream section


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I don’t mind Supes and Lois really,it’s how they showcase his humanity but that said they probably highlighted it because it’s a huge part of what leads to the “injustice” plotline (Superman going dark after the death of Lois) and that’s also what the Batman dream sequence was setting up. I do actually agree though that, as it’s most likely not happening and WB has gone in a different direction with DC, I think the future dream sequence could have been cut. All it does is tease a movie that will never exist.

[Zizu]

I don’t mind Supes and Lois really,it’s how they showcase his humanity but that said they probably highlighted it because it’s a huge part of what leads to the “injustice” plotline (Superman going dark after the death of Lois) and that’s also what the Batman dream sequence was setting up. I do actually agree though that, as it’s most likely not happening and WB has gone in a different direction with DC, I think the future dream sequence could have been cut. All it does is tease a movie that will never exist.



Well being cynical... given that the new version is getting rave reviews.. even the IMDB viewer ratings are far better ..

I just wondered if MONEY will talk and influence the decisions ??


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[user104658]

Well being cynical... given that the new version is getting rave reviews.. even the IMDB viewer ratings are far better ..

I just wondered if MONEY will talk and influence the decisions ??


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The only way I can see it happening, would be for them to spin-off a "Snyderverse" (not impossible with how the DC universe works) and do a full sequel the same way they did this - straight to streaming with no theatrical release. The issues there are, can it make enough money that way to justify the budget, and also can they secure "Big Screen" cast to sign off on making it. I think Cavill would be likely to be on board (schedule permitting), Ray Fisher (cyborg) is likely as well given that the bulk of his acting has been stage/television. The others, especially Affleck, I'm not sure would sign up if it wasn't a theatrical release.

[Oliver_W]

re Supes and Lois, when it comes to the comics the only "run" of stories about Superman which aren't him in the League are when he and Lois are married and have a son, those books are just awesome. So I don't mind them being loveydovey per say, but I've not seen the film yet, maybe that aspect of it is unbearable :joker:

As for Ray Fisher, I fear he may have burned his bridges when it comes to WB. I'm all for calling out Joss Whedon for his toxic behaviour, but Fisher tried to implicate eeveeeryone, including Geoff Johns, which makes me doubt what he's saying - GJ has been writing comics for decades, and has good conduct all the way through. He's also been a very inclusive writer, and I have no reason to think he was racist toward Fisher.
- At worst I'd say he had his Hollywood hat on, and said "look, Joss Whedon is too big, it sucks but put-up-and-shut-up, which is ****ty, I say drag the toxic bastard down, don't enable or overlook his actions. But overall GJ is one of the good guys.