34 out of 54 African nations dont allow same sex relationships.

[Beso]

All sorts of stories about this, police torturing people for confessions..people being necklaced.


Should the world demand change in these countries?

Should British born people of African origin be airing this more for public debate?

[Smithy]

1. Yes
2. What?

[MB.]

You mean the homophobic values we imposed on our colonies?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/30/africa-homophobia-legacy-colonialism

[Beso]

You mean the homophobic values we imposed on our colonies?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/30/africa-homophobia-legacy-colonialism

Uganda is laughable considering what they done with their indian population under idi Amin

[MB.]

Germany is laughable considering what they done with their Jewish population under Hitler

Your point being?

[Samm]

If you would of actually bothered to research into this topic, you would find as a user posted above it’s mostly at fault of the British Empire and other colonisers that imposed these social values.

But of course you didn’t. It was just an attempt to cause some friction on a forum where a good majority of its posters are LGBT! Nice try though! :pat:

[Jessica.]

You mean the homophobic values we imposed on our colonies?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/30/africa-homophobia-legacy-colonialism

:skull:

[Cherie]

If you would of actually bothered to research into this topic, you would find as a user posted above it’s mostly at fault of the British Empire and other colonisers that imposed these social values.

But of course you didn’t. It was just an attempt to cause some friction on a forum where a good majority of its posters are LGBT! Nice try though! :pat:

They aren't under British rule now though so change can happen?

[Oliver_W]

You mean the homophobic values we imposed on our colonies?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/30/africa-homophobia-legacy-colonialism

If you would of actually bothered to research into this topic, you would find as a user posted above it’s mostly at fault of the British Empire and other colonisers that imposed these social values.

But of course you didn’t. It was just an attempt to cause some friction on a forum where a good majority of its posters are LGBT! Nice try though! :pat:

Then I guess it's lucky how much of the rest of the world (including the people who live in the place that started the British Empire) have grown up and moved on.

[MB.]

They aren't under British rule now though so change can happen?

Because we did such a thorough job of forcing our Christian values upon them that homophobia has, in most cases, become both culturally ingrained and enshrined in law

That's like saying "well America hasn't been under British rule for three hundred years so why do they still speak English?"

[Beso]

If you would of actually bothered to research into this topic, you would find as a user posted above it’s mostly at fault of the British Empire and other colonisers that imposed these social values.

But of course you didn’t. It was just an attempt to cause some friction on a forum where a good majority of its posters are LGBT! Nice try though! :pat:




I'm afraid they have continued it whilst we have rightly moved on...

Dont you think they should be challenged on it by the rest of the world?

[MB.]

Then I guess it's lucky how much of the rest of the world (including the people who live in the place that started the British Empire) have grown up and moved on.

Britain could have "grown up and moved on" from its love for colonial-era racism but we haven't

[Cherie]

Because we did such a thorough job of forcing our Christian values upon them that homophobia has, in most cases, become both culturally ingrained and enshrined in law

That's like saying "well America hasn't been under British rule for three hundred years so why do they still speak English?"

that's a weird comparison, changing a countries language would be kinda crazy

laws on the other hand can be changed and countries can move on, look at Ireland in the 80s it was a Bastion of Catholicism, not any more due to progressive governments?

[Oliver_W]

Britain could have "grown up and moved on" from its love for colonial-era racism but we haven't
Even if that were true, it doesn't mean those 34 African nations shouldn't have moved on from their homophobia.

[Samm]

I'm afraid they have continued it whilst we have rightly moved on...

Dont you think they should be challenged on it by the rest of the world?

MB has explained that already.

We haven't "moved on" either, yes we have gay marriage and gay adaption but homophobia is still apparent in the UK and the western world. If you're not homosexual you can't say "we've moved on".

[Samm]

that's a weird comparison, changing a countries language would be kinda crazy

laws on the other hand can be changed and countries can move on, look at Ireland in the 80s it was a Bastion of Catholicism, not any more due to progressive governments?

Some governments in Africa are corrupt due to the state we and the rest of the world left them in.

[Beso]

MB has explained that already.

We haven't "moved on" either, yes we have gay marriage and gay adaption but homophobia is still apparent in the UK and the western world. If you're not homosexual you can't say "we've moved on".




So do you think they should be challenged on their outdated laws that ban same sex relationships or not?

Cause Britain has ended its ban on same sex relationships years ago...shouldn't we now be challenging other countries to do the same.!

[Oliver_W]

MB has explained that already.

We haven't "moved on" either, yes we have gay marriage and gay adaption but homophobia is still apparent in the UK and the western world. If you're not homosexual you can't say "we've moved on".

I'm gay and I've never had any real problems :shrug: like sure there are some dickheads out there, but we're generally at the point where no-one gives a flying monkeys.

[Tom4784]

Homohobia is no more, a straight person on a BB forum said so, the world has moved on!

[Beso]

Homohobia is no more, a straight person on a BB forum said so, the world has moved on!

I'm sure I said the exact opposite to that.

[Jigs]

Many African and Native American civilizations always welcomed third genders, ambiguous gender norms and same-sex relations. That was, of course, until they were colonized and Christian values were imposed on them by their white rulers.

It's our fault things like this are still happening so I guess to answer your question, yes, we should all be speaking up about it way more!

[Tom4784]

I'm gay and I've never had any real problems :shrug: like sure there are some dickheads out there, but we're generally at the point where no-one gives a flying monkeys.

You're incredibly lucky and ultimately an outlier rather than the norm. Things are better than they used to be but there is always danger, there's always a need to be careful in public, to consider who might potentially start a situation that could lead to violence if you even try to hold the hand of someone of the same sex.

I'm bi, I know how things are different when I'm with a woman and when I'm with a man. It's different in a same sex relationship, you can't be as open as you could if you were with a woman, you've got to consider people around you and be careful. I've never felt in danger with a woman but I certainly have if I've gone anywhere with a man.

Bisexuals are unique in that regard, we get to experience the differences and know how the world changes when it thinks we're straight or gay (because bisexual isn't an option until you tell someone you are and then you have to deal with potential biphobia).

[Jake.]

I'm gay and I've never had any real problems :shrug: like sure there are some dickheads out there, but we're generally at the point where no-one gives a flying monkeys.

Sorry but that’s really not the case.

[Oliver_W]

That was, of course, until they were colonized and Christian values were imposed on them by their white rulers.

It's our fault things like this are still happening so I guess to answer your question, yes, we should all be speaking up about it way more!
That's like forgiving a rapist because his victim was wearing a short skirt.


It's not anyone's fault but the nations themselves, they've had more than enough time to sort out their homophobia.

[Jigs]

That's like forgiving a rapist because his victim was wearing a short skirt.


It's not anyone's fault but the nations themselves, they've had more than enough time to sort out their homophobia.

I don't really know what to say to you. Go and tell them that then.

[Tom4784]

No country has managed to 'sort out' their homophobia. It exists in all places in the world.

Africa's problem mostly lies in religion, a lot of countries on that continent are fundamental in their beliefs and it forms a backbone for their countries. I don't think you'll ever truly get rid of homophobia anywhere but if you could truly divorce religion from power and governance and lessen it's hold on society as a whole, then it would be a start. Religion is responsible for a lot of hate and bigotry in this world.

[Samm]

I'm gay and I've never had any real problems :shrug: like sure there are some dickheads out there, but we're generally at the point where no-one gives a flying monkeys.

Okay but you don't account for all gay people do you? You need to think of demographics and situations. Especially in poorer areas/small towns of the country where homosexual people are still discriminated against.

I know someone who came out a few months ago and their parents first reaction was to kick them out. So please again don't think your position counts for all.

[Beso]

You mean the homophobic values we imposed on our colonies?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/30/africa-homophobia-legacy-colonialism

I've had a good read of that...

The word ethnographic interested me so I looked it up and its the scientific study of cultures and customs.

I'm assuming that someone must have written things at the time about what they witnessed from the tribes mentioned when first contact was made for them to know that homosexuality was practiced within the tribe..

I'd love a read at that..

[Beso]

Thing is though, these countries have ran themselves for years now, but their laws against it are getting harsher and stronger.

The british empire cant be blamed for that.

[Tom4784]

But those countries as they are today were built on values the empire brought open them which shaped their governance.

Look at America, It was built on slavery and the oppression of black people and although those laws have been abolished, black people are still oppressed by the systematic racism that remains. Plus you have religion being as dominant as it's always been.

The empire committed a lot of evil in this world when it was a thing. don't let patriotism blind you to the truth.

[Beso]

I dont agree that homosexuals are discriminated against in small towns at all.

In my experience they are adored by all.

[Oliver_W]

I dont agree that homosexuals are discriminated against in small towns at all.

In my experience they are adored by all.

I'm from a small town. I wouldn't say gays are "adored" here, more ... "indifferenced" :laugh:

[Beso]

But those countries as they are today were built on values the empire brought open them which shaped their governance.

Look at America, It was built on slavery and the oppression of black people and although those laws have been abolished, black people are still oppressed by the systematic racism that remains. Plus you have religion being as dominant as it's always been.

The empire committed a lot of evil in this world when it was a thing. don't let patriotism blind you to the truth.



That last line...I'm not a complete tit you know :nono:

[Tom4784]

I dont agree that homosexuals are discriminated against in small towns at all.

In my experience they are adored by all.

But that's your experience as a straight person who has never and will never experience homophobia. It's like a white person saying that racism isn't an issue. Your circumstances will ultimately limit your understanding of how present homophobia is in today's society.

[Beso]

I'm from a small town. I wouldn't say gays are "adored" here, more ... "indifferenced" :laugh:

I've often talked about my good friend jamie, he flaunts about town chatting away to everyone. Lighting up their faces with his patter.

[Oliver_W]

I've often talked about my good friend jamie, he flaunts about town chatting away to everyone. Lighting up their faces with his patter.

Flambouyance and likeability go hand-in-hand, to be fair. Within reason anyway.

[Beso]

But that's your experience as a straight person who has never and will never experience homophobia. It's like a white person saying that racism isn't an issue. Your circumstances will ultimately limit your understanding of how present homophobia is in today's society.

It's actually like me saying what my experiences are like,followed by a full stop...

My experiences are just that, mine...yours are obviously different, but you cant blame me and my experiences for that.

[Beso]

Flambouyance and likeability go hand-in-hand, to be fair. Within reason anyway.

He was the only open gay Male in town and boy did he let everyone know...that's why I like him so much.

He was the only .....until colin came along last summer..back up from london and 20 years older than jamie..colin, driven out of town by schol bullies and his father's homophobia in 1986....

I met them both in Colin's shop on a visit up and jamie wasnt amused when i bear hugged colin...my cousin.

[Tom4784]

It's actually like me saying what my experiences are like,followed by a full stop...

My experiences are just that, mine...yours are obviously different, but you cant blame me and my experiences for that.

But your experience doesn't really reflect the reality of homophobia because it doesn't affect you.

You can't make sweeping statements about how small towns are homophobic or not because you inherently can't relate. You might think that homophobia isn't as big as an issue in small towns but the people who have lived it will say differently.

[Beso]

I can say I disagree with something dezzy..which is what I did...stop fancying things up by using sensational wordage.

[Tom4784]

I can say I disagree with something dezzy..which is what I did...stop fancying things up by using sensational wordage.

You're entitled to believe that LGBT people aren't discriminated against in small towns but it's simply not the truth for most LGBT people. Just because you don't see something happening doesn't mean it isn't happening.

[Beso]

Is it fair to say you are more likely to get punched in the face in london for being gay than some random small town...

I think it is.



So to get back to yet more violence against the LGBTQ communities.

Can we start addressing the issues in African ran Africa again and our, as a nation, lack of action.

[Tom4784]

If anything, small towns are more likely to be homophobic than big cities. you're more likely to find hubs of LGBT communities in cities than in small towns, you're less likely to be isolated but I suppose it also makes it easier to target the people in these communities but then they'll more likely have protections and safety than an individual in a small town would be if they are targeted.

Homophobia exists everywhere but you'd probably be less likely to be harmed for being gay in London then you would be in a small community.

[Marsh.]

Should British born people of African origin be airing this more for public debate?

Everyone then? :hee:

[Marsh.]

Then I guess it's lucky how much of the rest of the world (including the people who live in the place that started the British Empire) have grown up and moved on.

Lucky that the colonisers moved on and the colonised still suffer the consequences? Lucky?

[Oliver_W]

Everyone then? :hee:

Damn those African colonisers :fist:

[Beso]

Everyone then? :hee:

Yes..that's fine...we all should be condemning it..so far I'm not seeing much to be fair.

[Marsh.]

That's like forgiving a rapist because his victim was wearing a short skirt.

Erm... I think you have this backwards. In this analogy, the third world countries are the victims.

[Oliver_W]

Erm... I think you have this backwards. In this analogy, the third world countries are the victims.

No the gay people are who are being victimised.

It's a bit infantilising to act like those nations are incapable of sorting themselves out because they were once colonies :shrug:

[Beso]

If anything, small towns are more likely to be homophobic than big cities. you're more likely to find hubs of LGBT communities in cities than in small towns, you're less likely to be isolated but I suppose it also makes it easier to target the people in these communities but then they'll more likely have protections and safety than an individual in a small town would be if they are targeted.

Homophobia exists everywhere but you'd probably be less likely to be harmed for being gay in London then you would be in a small community.

I disagree because being homosexual in a small town sort of only gives you straight mates to go with with up town because as you say they dont have the social hubs that big cities can afford its large LGBTQ communities.

So in the small town environment because you are with a group of pals and everyone knows everyone in a small town and the fact that crime is low in small towns, the chances of a random smack in the face for being gay is much much smaller than that of London.

[Marsh.]

Yes..that's fine...we all should be condemning it..so far I'm not seeing much to be fair.

You've never seen condemnation brought on Africa and a lot of the Eastern world?

Come on now, you're old young enough to have seen that loads.

[Marsh.]

No the gay people are who are being victimised.

It's a bit infantilising to act like those nations are incapable of sorting themselves out because they were once colonies :shrug:

Nobody said they're incapable of anything. Do you watch the news? Did you study history?

It's kind of like asking why certain parts of Africa have no running water and are starving to death. It's ignorant.

[Beso]

Marsh..you ain't making sense again mate.

[Oliver_W]

Nobody said they're incapable of anything. Do you watch the news?

So they are capable of change despite having been colonies, but choose not to?

[Marsh.]

Marsh..you ain't making sense again mate.

Sorry... ahem....

yOU'VE nEVER sEEN tHE eASTERN wORLD cONDEMNED iN yOUR vERY lONG lIFE???

https://imgflip.com/s/meme/Mocking-Spongebob.jpg

[Beso]

Not only choose not to..but making it priority is sickening.

[Marsh.]

So they are capable of change despite having been colonies, but choose not to?

So you haven't studied history. Explains a lot.

[Tom4784]

I disagree because being homosexual in a small town sort of only gives you straight mates to go with with up town because as you say they dont have the social hubs that big cities can afford its large LGBTQ communities.

So in the small town environment because you are with a group of pals and everyone knows everyone in a small town and the fact that crime is low in small towns, the chances of a random smack in the face for being gay is much much smaller than that of London.

But you aren't guaranteed any of that in small towns and homophobia is more than just violence. You can isolate and harm someone without violence and small towns tend to have more closed minded attitudes because of a lack of exposure to the gay scene which is more common in cities.

You can think that discrimination doesn't exist in small towns but the reality is different.

[Marsh.]

The trolling is actually laughable for two guys who claim racism doesn't exist anymore.

[Beso]

Sorry... ahem....

yOU'VE nEVER sEEN tHE eASTERN wORLD cONDEMNED iN yOUR vERY lONG lIFE???

https://imgflip.com/s/meme/Mocking-Spongebob.jpg

But it's still going on..and getting worse.

You are still wanting me to think about the past...what about now, what about those young men sitting in jail right now battered and bruised.:shrug:

[Beso]

But you aren't guaranteed any of that in small towns and homophobia is more than just violence. You can isolate and harm someone without violence and small towns tend to have more closed minded attitudes because of a lack of exposure to the gay scene which is more common in cities.

You can think that discrimination doesn't exist in small towns but the reality is different.



Fair enough, but this thread is about violence towards homosexuals by 34 out of 54 African ran nations.
.which is why I used punch in the face as my judgement.


We are all aware of the way people think in private.

[Beso]

Hi oliver...do you think racism doesn't exist?

[Oliver_W]

Hi oliver...do you think racism doesn't exist?

I've never said it doesn't exist :shrug:

[Beso]

I've never said it doesn't exist :shrug:

Me either..


That's that sorted then.

[Marsh.]

But it's still going on..and getting worse.

You are still wanting me to think about the past...what about now, what about those young men sitting in jail right now battered and bruised.:shrug:

Erm, no. I'm telling you to look to the past when you're chatting sh*t about why the countries are the way they are.

But racism and homophobia isn't a problem anymore so, really, they're all doing great.

[Beso]

Erm, no. I'm telling you to look to the past when you're chatting sh*t about why the countries are the way they are.

But racism and homophobia isn't a problem anymore so, really, they're all doing great.

Again with the sensationalistic word of the day....racism...



Hellooooo...this is LGBTQ issues.

[Marsh.]

Again with the sensationalistic word of the day....racism...



Hellooooo...this is LGBTQ issues.

Aww, colonialism too much for you when discussing issues relating to the former British Empire? Maybe choose a different subject?

[Beso]

Aww, colonialism too much for you when discussing issues relating to the former British Empire? Maybe choose a different subject?

I did when I made the op:shrug:

[Livia]

Are people under the impression that African countries that belonged to the British Empire were just left to languish? Do people know how much money we send to Africa every year, and for how many years? It's not an empire now, it's a Commonwealth. And Africa gets the largest share of the aid we send. Corrupt governments who starve their own people should be ousted by the UN... an organisation who sits powerlessly while people die of hunger at the hands of a despot.

No one can change the wrongs that were done before any of us were born, but you can accept that governments across the world have been pouring cash into Africa for years, decades... and they're still murdering children because they think they're witches. They're still having sex with virgins because they think it can cure AIDS. I would argue that despite the huge setback of empire, we're forgetting the amount of damage that has been done since.

[Oliver_W]

Are people under the impression that African countries that belonged to the British Empire were just left to languish? Do people know how much money we send to Africa every year, and for how many years? It's not an empire now, it's a Commonwealth. And Africa gets the largest share of the aid we send. Corrupt governments who starve their own people should be ousted by the UN... an organisation who sits powerlessly while people die of hunger at the hands of a despot.

No one can change the wrongs that were done before any of us were born, but you can accept that governments across the world have been pouring cash into Africa for years, decades... and they're still murdering children because they think they're witches. They're still having sex with virgins because they think it can cure AIDS. I would argue that despite the huge setback of empire, we're forgetting the amount of damage that has been done since.
But none of that is their fault, remember, they have no agency of their own :rolleyes:

[Kizzy]

They have the Anglican church.. isn't that enough?

On foreign aid...

'Since 1970, the UN has set a target for donor countries to contribute 0.7% of their GDP on foreign aid.

The UK government has been signed up to the target since 1974, but it only reached it for the first time in 2013.

In 2015, the necessity to hit 0.7% of GDP was enshrined in UK law. While the obligation can’t be enforced through the courts, the international development secretary has to explain themselves to Parliament if the UK doesn’t meet the target.,

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theweek.co.uk/63394/foreign-aid-how-and-where-is-britain-s-budget-spent%3famp

[Nicky91]

South Africa, Nigeria are among those African countries who have improved in a lot of things over the years



basically the countries who are probably the worst of the continent are Chad, Sudan, Somalia, in terms of conflicts, corruption, poverty

but yeah 34 out of 54 who don't allow same-sex relationships is still a lot of countries, but you can also say 20 countries do allow same-sex relationships, a more positive look on things, as for the remaining 34 who knows maybe they'll change over the years

[Livia]

They have the Anglican church.. isn't that enough?

On foreign aid...

'Since 1970, the UN has set a target for donor countries to contribute 0.7% of their GDP on foreign aid.

The UK government has been signed up to the target since 1974, but it only reached it for the first time in 2013.

In 2015, the necessity to hit 0.7% of GDP was enshrined in UK law. While the obligation can’t be enforced through the courts, the international development secretary has to explain themselves to Parliament if the UK doesn’t meet the target.,

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theweek.co.uk/63394/foreign-aid-how-and-where-is-britain-s-budget-spent%3famp


And yet our contribution of development aid to the world is the second highest in the world after the USA. Shame on the other countries.... Shame....

[Kizzy]

And yet our contribution of development aid to the world is the second highest in the world after the USA. Shame on the other countries.... Shame....

That's not true

'The only donors more generous than Britain by proportion of their economies are Sweden (1.01%), Luxembourg (1%), Norway (0.99%) and Denmark (0.72%),”*The Times*reported in 2018. The non-Western countries that exceeded the UN target were the United Arab Emirates and Turkey, it adds'

Of course, some of the aid might be reparation?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-33618621

[bots]

i thought this was a question taken from family fortunes for a moment

[The Slim Reaper]

i thought this was a question taken from family fortunes for a moment

If it was up there, I'd have given you the money meself.

[Beso]

If it was up there, I'd have given you the money meself.

If the british empire endorsed its values upon the African nations they colonised all those years ago, and those African nations are not able to change once they are governing themselves and making their own laws!

That also means that britain and its population cant change either, so that would make everyone homophobic racists!


But we have changed ad a nation for the better.....



So my question is...why do people think Africans are unable to change for the better like britain has once it gave up its colonies back to their original and rightfull owners?

Because all I'm seeing is the lgbtq community afraid to go in as hard on these African nations as they do on
random tibb members on here fgs..

Can anyone tell me why? Cause I dont understand or get it at all!

[Marsh.]

My question is... why you think posturing progressiveness to other nations means our nation is any better? Quiet racism and homophobia is more insidious.

[Beso]

My question is... why you think posturing progressiveness to other nations means our nation is any better? Quiet racism and homophobia is more insidious.

It may he more insidious but atm in africa, it would hopefully make it a little less sore for the 34 nations lgbtq communities if a muscle or 2 was flexed..but you keep on twisting it back yeah to ignore your inner feelings.

[Marsh.]

It may he more insidious but atm in africa, it would hopefully make it a little less sore for the 34 nations lgbtq communities if a muscle or 2 was flexed..but you keep on twisting it back yeah to ignore your inner feelings.

My inner feelings on what? :joker:

Am I to blame for Africa's stance on same sex relationships now? Oh dear.

My point was pointing at other places for their barbaric treatment of minorities whilst simultaneously ignoring our own is... interesting at best.

[Beso]

My inner feelings on what? :joker:

Am I to blame for Africa's stance on same sex relationships now? Oh dear.

My point was pointing at other places for their barbaric treatment of minorities whilst simultaneously ignoring our own is... interesting at best.


Why bring other topics into this topic...all those other topics have been done to death...let's discuss Africa tonight for a change and its ruling bodies.

[Marsh.]

Why bring other topics into this topic...all those other topics have been done to death...let's discuss Africa tonight for a change and its ruling bodies.

I didn't bring other topics up.

[Tom4784]

My inner feelings on what? :joker:

Am I to blame for Africa's stance on same sex relationships now? Oh dear.

My point was pointing at other places for their barbaric treatment of minorities whilst simultaneously ignoring our own is... interesting at best.

The UK are experts at distracting ourselves from our problems by focusing on other countries.

[Tom4784]

When it comes to many countries in Africa, religious fundamentalism has too much of a hold for LGBT people to ever truly be free in those countries, and no, it's not just islam either, Christianity is just as dangerous for inspiring violence against LGBT people throughout the region.

For straight people in this topic who are focused on Africa with a laser focus, support refugees and immigrants who run from their countries in fear of being killed for being gay. Put your money where your mouth is and welcome LGBT refugees and immigrants with open arms.