London bobby kneeling on a black neck

[caprimint]

...’like people suggest..’....as being portrayed by the targeting ‘gang’...yeah I’ve seen exactly the people who are being or have been ‘cancelled’ and it’s sickening how toxic this behaviour has become....I have nothing more to say, I believe you’ve just explained, Capri, ‘what people suggest’ about me and about others..you seem like a nice young lady, I’m sorry you’ve been encircled in this spitefulness and hate...
Yep, I don't agree with any of that either Ammi but it is unfortunate that a lot of people get dragged into that **** tbh

Bad cops getting punished, you love to see it, I’m glad the professionals could see that what he did was wrong and proceeded accordingly
"ANY" cops getting punished is a more accurate statement for this website tbh.

The only reason he got any type of "punishment" is because of George Floyd, so don't get too ahead of yourself.

[The Slim Reaper]

As a matter of interest do you two think the professionals involved in this decision should have been suspended given their mistake ended in junior officers being injured under their duty of care?

Yes. If you're a leader you have the responsibility to lead, and the force didn't plan their operation properly. Maybe not suspension because every operation planned can't possibly lead to 100% success, and failure on it's own isn't a cause for suspension as long as they followed all polices and procedures. If they just winged it, then yeah.

[Liam-]

As a matter of interest do you two think the professionals involved in this decision should have been suspended given their mistake ended in junior officers being injured under their duty of care?

What?

[The Slim Reaper]

What?

Cherie's referring to the incident with the lockdown party in Brixton when the cops went in to shut it down and ended up getting chased off.

[Liam-]

Oh, unsure what that has to do with what happened here but sure, no they shouldn’t be fired because they didn’t directly cause any injuries, they should be order to do more training however as they clearly didn't fully understand what techniques should have been used.

[Cherie]

Oh, unsure what that has to do with what happened here but sure, no they shouldn’t be fired because they didn’t directly cause any injuries, they should be order to do more training however as they clearly didn't fully understand what techniques should have been used.

They were sent in with no protective gear, that was a decision taken by their supervising officer, if they had protective gear its unlikely they would have been injured? it was a mistake that was quickly corrected, when they had to attend one the following night they were all geared up so someone made a mistake that got officers injured but they kept their job because they were able to reflect on how badly they handled it and corrected it when the situation arose again

[Cherie]

Oh, unsure what that has to do with what happened here but sure, no they shouldn’t be fired because they didn’t directly cause any injuries, they should be order to do more training however as they clearly didn't fully understand what techniques should have been used.

so you never made a mistake in your job?

[caprimint]

so you never made a mistake in your job?
Omg exactly

I don't get why people expect police to be more 'perfect' than anybody else

[Liam-]

They were sent in with no protective gear, that was a decision taken by their supervising officer, if they had protective gear its unlikely they would have been injured? it was a mistake that was quickly corrected, when they had to attend one the following night they were all geared up so someone made a mistake that got officers injured but they kept their job because they were able to reflect on how badly they handled it and corrected it when the situation arose again

Exactly, the person in charge made a mistake and it was rectified, they didn’t directly injure anyone, they should be put on an intensive training course to make sure it didn’t happen again

so you never made a mistake in your job?

There’s a mistake and then there’s using techniques that aren’t allowed or even taught to restrain people

[Liam-]

And btw, my job is to make sure my mum is kept in good health and takes all of her medication that’ll help keep her comfortable and help prolong her life, so yes, I do my very best to not make any mistakes because if I did, something bad could happen, I don’t think it’s unfair that people that are paid by us, to protect and serve us and uphold the law, are held to higher standards because of their job tbh, idk that might just be me

[Cherie]

Exactly, the person in charge made a mistake and it was rectified, they didn’t directly injure anyone, they should be put on an intensive training course to make sure it didn’t happen again



There’s a mistake and then there’s using techniques that aren’t allowed or even taught to restrain people

It felt to me like a very stressful situation that one of them didn’t handle very well, they were surrounded by a mob, the week before policemen were attacked while trying to tackle a mugger, no he didn’t cover himself in glory, but he may not be given an opportunity to correct his mistake like his superior has..be interesting to see what the outcome is for him

[Ammi]

‘The police have both extraordinary responsibilities and powers. These include powers that can impact on people’s liberty and even their right to life.‘

...this is why it’s so completely important that any ‘mistake’ in the police force holds accountability always, which is exactly what’s happening for the safety and trust of both the police and the public...

[caprimint]

Ehhhh Liam... I think we could all look back on our jobs and think... wow there is something I should have done better there...

I don't think the police should be excused or taken away from that

[Ammi]

And btw, my job is to make sure my mum is kept in good health and takes all of her medication that’ll help keep her comfortable and help prolong her life, so yes, I do my very best to not make any mistakes because if I did, something bad could happen, I don’t think it’s unfair that people that are paid by us, to protect and serve us and uphold the law, are held to higher standards because of their job tbh, idk that might just be me

..:hug:..

[caprimint]

It felt to me like a very stressful situation that one of them didn’t handle very well, they were surrounded by a mob, the week before policemen were attacked while trying to tackle a mugger, no he didn’t cover himself in glory, but he may not be given an opportunity to correct his mistake like his superior has..be interesting to see what the outcome is for him
My god... EXACTLY!!!

Nobody here is in the police force so I don't know why they claim to act as if they know everything about it lol

[Cherie]

And btw, my job is to make sure my mum is kept in good health and takes all of her medication that’ll help keep her comfortable and help prolong her life, so yes, I do my very best to not make any mistakes because if I did, something bad could happen, I don’t think it’s unfair that people that are paid by us, to protect and serve us and uphold the law, are held to higher standards because of their job tbh, idk that might just be me

She is lucky to have you

[rusticgal]

:joker:

My god... I'm not even really interested in what happened between y'all but all I DO know is that regardless of what happened in previous PM's, other forums, or threads... is that Livia has been targeted a LOT and it's tragic to see by the exact same members for a whole bunch of the time and has been manipulated by certain people here.

You might not be part of any "group" like people suggest, but you sure as hell fit in pretty damn well, from what I've seen too. Anyone who disagrees here is "cancelled" if we weren't already, but do let us carry on... :spin2:



Well summed up...and so very true.

[Liam-]

Would people have the same empathy for a surgeon who decided to do an operation a completely different way to what they were taught because they were ‘stressed’? No they wouldn’t, because that could have grave consequences, just like an officer handling people a completely different way than their taught could have, high standard professions that are there to protect us rightfully have to held to higher standards and different levels of scrutiny.

A secretary sending an email to the wrong recipient is a mistake, a police officer choosing to disregard training and kneel on someone’s head/neck is a choice

[Cherie]

Would people have the same empathy for a surgeon who decided to do an operation a completely different way to what they were taught because they were ‘stressed’? No they wouldn’t, because that could have grave consequences, just like an officer handling people a completely different way than their taught could have, high standard professions that are there to protect us rightfully have to held to higher standards and different levels of scrutiny.

A secretary sending an email to the wrong recipient is a mistake, a police officer choosing to disregard training and kneel on someone’s head/neck is a choice

Sorry but a surgeon doesn’t run into theatre ..they will have time to prepare and they won’t be surrounded by members of the public filming and barking orders, it won’t be long before beat bobbies start looking the other way, retreating like they did in Brixton rather than dealing with the situation

[Ammi]

Well summed up...and so very true.

...excuse me...you’re praising a post that confirms/verifies.. ‘like people suggest‘ ...a pack mentality against me with the aim to control my time on the forum...

[caprimint]

Would people have the same empathy for a surgeon who decided to do an operation a completely different way to what they were taught because they were ‘stressed’? No they wouldn’t, because that could have grave consequences, just like an officer handling people a completely different way than their taught could have, high standard professions that are there to protect us rightfully have to held to higher standards and different levels of scrutiny.

A secretary sending an email to the wrong recipient is a mistake, a police officer choosing to disregard training and kneel on someone’s head/neck is a choice
Are you actually serious right now???

A mistake is simply that Liam... a mistake... but it becomes different when somebody's life is at risk or beyond that, for whatever reason hence why George Floyd's case was so terrible. But I do think for the majority of the time, it's a shame that people are not more forgiving and more complacent in the workplace because a bunch of **** happens there too. It's just not possible unfortunately, for people to be perfect all the time which is very obvious throughout specific instances and it is also okay.

[caprimint]

...excuse me...you’re praising a post that confirms/verifies.. ‘like people suggest‘ ...a pack mentality against me with the aim to control my time on the forum...
Lol no Ammi... you've gotten that post entirely wrong. I genuinely don't think you are in any "pack" of the forum, but I DO think that others think you are, from what I've read.

[Liam-]

Sorry but a surgeon doesn’t run into theatre ..they will have time to prepare and they won’t be surrounded by members of the public filming and barking orders, it won’t be long before beat bobbies start looking the other way

You think surgeons have time to prepare for a trauma accident? If someone is shot, run over, stabbed, they don’t have time to prepare they have to go straight to it, if they strayed from their training and make things worse or killed them, would they be expected to be held to account? Of course they would be

If they can’t stick to their training and they take things into their own hands, they either shouldn’t be in the job at all, or should be shelved until they’ve received the right amount of training necessary

[Cherie]

You think surgeons have time to prepare for a trauma accident? If someone is shot, run over, stabbed, they don’t have time to prepare they have to go straight to it, if they strayed from their training and make things worse or killed them, would they be expected to be held to account? Of course they would be

If they can’t stick to their training and they take things into their own hands, they either shouldn’t be in the job at all, or should be shelved until they’ve received the right amount of training necessary

The patient has to be put under for starters they don’t start operating in the waiting room on a wide awake patient in their jeans and T-shirt :laugh:

And unless their colleagues attack them they are perfectly safe

[Liam-]

Take me for example, I’m a citizen, I’ve had no training to be a full time carer for my mother, I’ve been doing it for coming up 10 years, I’ve signed no contracts, I’ve taken no oaths, if someone in my position decided to give someone they’re caring for something they weren’t prescribed and something went wrong, all because they thought they knew better than the doctors, they would be held responsible and rightfully punished, why should people who do train to do their jobs but choose to ignore their training and do it their own way and potentially put people in danger, be held to a lesser standard?

[Liam-]

The patient has to be put under for starters they don’t start operating in the waiting room on a wide awake patient in their jeans and T-shirt :laugh:

And unless their colleagues attack them they are perfectly safe

But is it not an incredibly stressful job? What if they panicked and killed a patient because they did something they didn’t do, would it be chalked up to a mistake or with they be held responsible and punished?

[Cherie]

Take me for example, I’m a citizen, I’ve had no training to be a full time carer for my mother, I’ve been doing it for coming up 10 years, I’ve signed no contracts, I’ve taken no oaths, if someone in my position decided to give someone they’re caring for something they weren’t prescribed and something went wrong, all because they thought they knew better than the doctors, they would be held responsible and rightfully punished, why should people who do train to do their jobs but choose to ignore their training and do it their own way and potentially put people in danger, be held to a lesser standard?

I am not saying he shouldn’t be reprimanded, I think suspension is severe until all the facts are known, desk duties like the other one ...then if it does come to light he is not suited to the force sack him

[Liam-]

I am not saying he shouldn’t be reprimanded, I think suspension is severe until all the facts are known, desk duties like the other one ...then if it does come to light he is not suited to the force sack him

He’s been suspended while they investigate yes, the right cause of action, the other one wasn’t on the guys head/neck, so why would he be suspended as well?

[Marsh.]

The main point is not a result of why the police acted in the way they did. The main point is WHY he was carrying the knife... its literally that simple.

It's really not. Nobody has questioned the fact the man was a criminal and needed arresting. Distracting from the debate to create a new one is not an argument.

[Marsh.]

Wow you must be really scary and impressive :flutter:

:joker:

[caprimint]

It's really not. Nobody has questioned the fact the man was a criminal and needed arresting. Distracting from the debate to create a new one is not an argument.
So why create the thread to begin with? When is it specifically referring to a... POLICEMAN ON A BLACK GUY? :joker:

:facepalm:

****ing hell

[bots]

the reason people get extensive training is so that they react and deal with things in the correct manner for the circumstances that they face. In a life threatening situation however, people should not expect to be held accountable for the method they use to protect themselves from harm.

[Marsh.]

The good news for Sheriff is he can now escalate to carrying a weapon and if the police so much as lay a finger in the wrong place during his arrest, he will be exonerated by some of his fellow Tibbers :hehe:

Oh are we still pretending anyone has defended the man carrying a knife. Ok.

[Ammi]

...’mistakes’ serve to make us better, to highlight any areas that are lacking and to highlight any further training required...it doesn’t mean because someone is suspended that they’ll lose their job necessarily...but the body cam footage...(..not the public video..)...is what is being reported as the reason why the suspension and why it’s now under investigation...the decision was made by someone who has ‘all the information’, rather than just the snippet that we have...

[rusticgal]

He’s been suspended while they investigate yes, the right cause of action, the other one wasn’t on the guys head/neck, so why would he be suspended as well?


I don’t think the other one was suspended...just given office duties like Cherie said. I guess being part of a team it’s what they do if an investigation is being held.

[Liam-]

I don’t think the other one was suspended...just given office duties. I guess being part of a team it’s what they do if an investigation is being held.

Yeah I know, I was making the comparison of the different punishments for the pair

[Marsh.]

so you never made a mistake in your job?

Omg exactly

I don't get why people expect police to be more 'perfect' than anybody else

Well, in a job that can deal with life and death, "mistakes" are more costly.

If a badly trained doctor causes serious harm to a patient would your response be "I don't get why people expect doctors to be more 'perfect' than anybody else"?

No, it would be "This doctor either ignored his training and procedures or was poorly trained to start with". The police are no different.

[Marsh.]

So why create the thread to begin with? When is it specifically referring to a... POLICEMAN ON A BLACK GUY? :joker:

:facepalm:

****ing hell

Well, considering I didn't make the thread your anguish is directed at the wrong person.

[AnnieK]

So why create the thread to begin with? When is it specifically referring to a... POLICEMAN ON A BLACK GUY? :joker:

:facepalm:

****ing hell
Because in light of what happened to George Floyd, a black man who died when an officer knelt on his neck, it needs to be highlighted when our own Police Officers are undertaking questionable arrest techniques. In light of the current high level of feeling about Police brutality here and in the States directed at Black people in particular, we need to clamp down on the heavy handed arrests and make sure our Officers are properly trained and able to handle these types of situations safely and professionally.

I wouldn't be a copper for any amount of money but if you choose a career to uphold the law you should receive adequate training so you can derain and arrest criminals such as this guy without resorting to having to hold them by the head or neck

[rusticgal]

Yeah I know, I was making the comparison of the different punishments for the pair



No you clearly said why was the other one suspended as well..:laugh:

[Marsh.]

Because in light of what happened to George Floyd, a black man who died when an officer knelt on his neck, it needs to be highlighted when our own Police Officers are undertaking questionable arrest techniques. In light of the current high level of feeling about Police brutality here and in the States directed at Black people in particular, we need to clamp down on the heavy handed arrests and make sure our Officers are properly trained and able to handle these types of situations safely and professionally.

I wouldn't be a copper for any amount of money but if you choose a career to uphold the law you should receive adequate training so you can derain and arrest criminals such as this guy without resorting to having to hold them by the head or neck

Spot on.

[Liam-]

No you clearly said why was the other one suspended as well..:laugh:

No I didn’t, Cherie was saying why wasn’t he put on desk duty like the other one, so I said why would they be given the same punishment if the other one did nothing wrong

[rusticgal]

No I didn’t, Cherie was saying why wasn’t he put on desk duty like the other one, so I said why would they be given the same punishment if the other one did nothing wrong


Sorry...my mistake.

[Marsh.]

No you clearly said why was the other one suspended as well..:laugh:

Context is everything.

I am not saying he shouldn’t be reprimanded, I think suspension is severe until all the facts are known, desk duties like the other one ...then if it does come to light he is not suited to the force sack him

He’s been suspended while they investigate yes, the right cause of action, the other one wasn’t on the guys head/neck, so why would he be suspended as well?

Cherie asked why the suspended officer wasn't given desk duties like his colleague until the investigation was over. Liam question why they would receive the same treatment when his colleague wasn't to blame for his actions.

[joeysteele]

Take me for example, I’m a citizen, I’ve had no training to be a full time carer for my mother, I’ve been doing it for coming up 10 years, I’ve signed no contracts, I’ve taken no oaths, if someone in my position decided to give someone they’re caring for something they weren’t prescribed and something went wrong, all because they thought they knew better than the doctors, they would be held responsible and rightfully punished, why should people who do train to do their jobs but choose to ignore their training and do it their own way and potentially put people in danger, be held to a lesser standard?

I know you aren't looking for any praise for your caring for your Mother.
However I'd like to please commend you in all you're doing.

I have strong concerns for my Mum at present and I'm ensuring I'm doing every single thing right to ensure her safety in this pandemic.
No room for mistakes at all.

You are right.
There are things and duties we do which if a mistake was made, would be catastrophic and tragic.
You as your Mother's carer is a strong example.

Thinking again now to the topic of this thread boils down to, for in law, for the law to be upheld and justice to be properly served,then those employed to uphold the law, also need to abide by it and their strict training to do so.

There's cases in law, where if the police have NOT followed their training and right procedures, where the cases have been thrown out.

That's why, the police have to uphold the law, WITHIN the law.
They ARE expected to go that extra mile to avoid any mistakes or suspicion they acted against their training and profession.

I believe they did act against their training in this incident.
Which if left unaddressed, could reflect on the whole police force.

[rusticgal]

Context is everything.





Cherie asked why the suspended officer wasn't given desk duties like his colleague until the investigation was over. Liam question why they would receive the same treatment when his colleague wasn't to blame for his actions.



You need to respond quicker if you want to get your two pennies worth in...

We’ve moved on...keep up.

[Marsh.]

You need to respond quicker if you want to get your two pennies worth in...

We’ve moved on...keep up.

Oh NO, you posted before I posted mine. THE WORLD IS ENDING.

:idc:

Responding to a public thread "getting your two pennies worth in". :laugh2: Grow up.

[Oliver_W]

You've got to nip that kind of behaviour in the bud or it will grow and this story will be a reminder for other officers to stick to their training.

People should take the police to task when they do wrong, when the police makes mistakes, it puts peoples' lives in danger.

Yeah, maybe that cop should have been suspended or something.

[caprimint]

Because in light of what happened to George Floyd, a black man who died when an officer knelt on his neck, it needs to be highlighted when our own Police Officers are undertaking questionable arrest techniques. In light of the current high level of feeling about Police brutality here and in the States directed at Black people in particular, we need to clamp down on the heavy handed arrests and make sure our Officers are properly trained and able to handle these types of situations safely and professionally.

I wouldn't be a copper for any amount of money but if you choose a career to uphold the law you should receive adequate training so you can derain and arrest criminals such as this guy without resorting to having to hold them by the head or neck
No Annie... it does not need to be highlighted right here right now. That is literally the issue with this thread. This thread should not have been been a relevant thread to begin with, nor WOULD have been about 3 months prior to this.

[rusticgal]

Oh NO, you posted before I posted mine. THE WORLD IS ENDING.

:idc:

Responding to a public thread "getting your two pennies worth in". :laugh2: Grow up.



:pat:....I need to grow up :laugh:....just look at your post :laugh:

[Marsh.]

:pat:....I need to grow up :laugh:....just look at your post :laugh:

My posts on the topic and your... "responses" baiting me?

Ok...

[JerseyWins]

Unlike other jobs where you're punished for a wrong procedure, a police officer's life is threatened while doing their job. All it takes is one swift move by one criminal on any given day and it could very well be the end of their life. But the way cops are being scrutinized these days for any type of force shown on the job is very questionable. In a case like George Floyd, the cop did wrong and should be punished because he just allowed George to die while he was well past getting George securely on the ground where there was no chance for escape etc.

Look at what happened with that story of the guy at the Wendy's drive thru? Two officers being very lenient and letting their guard down allowed the man to break free AND take a taser from one of them while it was TWO ON ONE. Do people not see how easy it can be for an actual criminal to get the upper hand and end up killing a cop when force isn't applied? It resulted in the man being wrongly murdered in the end during a chase but it could've all been prevented. I can't blame cops too much for showing excessive force on the job when any seemingly 'harmless person' can flip on a dime while being under the threat of arrest. If it's not an OTT cold-blooded case (like what Derek did), there is no way 'incorrect procedure' should be punished in the same way it's punished in other jobs. Also, idk about where you guys are from but when a doctor messes up on an operation it has no type of severe consequence unless it is deemed to be a reoccurred thing or something purposely done for illegal reasons. Regardless, a doctor doesn't have his life threatened at work so they should be punished more than cops for wrong procedures & mistakes at work but they are not because it is not in the public eye in the same way. It is usually not intentional in the same way cops' wrongdoings usually aren't either. It's a tough job where lives will always be lost from both cops and citizens

[The Slim Reaper]

No Annie... it does not need to be highlighted right here right now. That is literally the issue with this thread. This thread should not have been been a relevant thread to begin with, nor WOULD have been about 3 months prior to this.

This thread would always have been relevant.

[Marsh.]

Unlike other jobs where you're punished for a wrong procedure, a police officer's life is threatened while doing their job. All it takes is one swift move by one criminal on any given day and it could very well be the end of their life. But the way cops are being scrutinized these days for any type of force shown on the job is very questionable. In a case like George Floyd, the cop did wrong and should be punished because he just allowed George to die while he was well past getting George securely on the ground where there was no chance for escape etc.

Look at what happened with that story of the guy at the Wendy's drive thru? Two officers being very lenient and letting their guard down allowed the man to break free AND take a taser from one of them while it was TWO ON ONE. Do people not see how easy it can be for an actual criminal to get the upper hand and end up killing a cop when force isn't applied? It resulted in the man being wrongly murdered in the end during a chase but it could've all been prevented. I can't blame cops too much for showing excessive force on the job when any seemingly 'harmless person' can flip on a dime while being under the threat of arrest. If it's not an OTT cold-blooded case (like what Derek did), there is no way 'incorrect procedure' should be punished in the same way it's punished in other jobs. Also, idk about where you guys are from but when a doctor messes up on an operation it has no type of severe consequence unless it is deemed to be a reoccurred thing or something purposely done for illegal reasons. Regardless, a doctor doesn't have his life threatened at work so they should be punished more than cops for wrong procedures & mistakes at work but they are not because it is not in the public eye in the same way. It is usually not intentional in the same way cops' wrongdoings usually aren't either. It's a tough job where lives will always be lost from both cops and citizens

Pointing out when an officer is using inappropriate excessive force is NOT asking for them to be "lenient and let their guard down". It's a gross misrepresentation of what's actually being said.

[AnnieK]

No Annie... it does not need to be highlighted right here right now. That is literally the issue with this thread. This thread should not have been been a relevant thread to begin with, nor WOULD have been about 3 months prior to this.

You're right, this probably wouldn't have been news 3 months and that's where the problem lies. Black people have complained FOR YEARS about the treatment they receive at the hands of the Police but it has taken the death of a man for this to become mainstream news and force the Police force to look long and hard at some of the actions of a minority of officers. It needs to be highlighted and dealt with now so the Police can get on with what is a very hard job, professionally.

[caprimint]

Unlike other jobs where you're punished for a wrong procedure, a police officer's life is threatened while doing their job. All it takes is one swift move by one criminal on any given day and it could very well be the end of their life. But the way cops are being scrutinized these days for any type of force shown on the job is very questionable. In a case like George Floyd, the cop did wrong and should be punished because he just allowed George to die while he was well past getting George securely on the ground where there was no chance for escape etc.

Look at what happened with that story of the guy at the Wendy's drive thru? Two officers being very lenient and letting their guard down allowed the man to break free AND take a taser from one of them while it was TWO ON ONE. Do people not see how easy it can be for an actual criminal to get the upper hand and end up killing a cop when force isn't applied? It resulted in the man being wrongly murdered in the end during a chase but it could've all been prevented. I can't blame cops too much for showing excessive force on the job when any seemingly 'harmless person' can flip on a dime while being under the threat of arrest. If it's not an OTT cold-blooded case (like what Derek did), there is no way 'incorrect procedure' should be punished in the same way it's punished in other jobs. Also, idk about where you guys are from but when a doctor messes up on an operation it has no type of severe consequence unless it is deemed to be a reoccurred thing or something purposely done for illegal reasons. Regardless, a doctor doesn't have his life threatened at work so they should be punished more than cops for wrong procedures & mistakes at work but they are not because it is not in the public eye in the same way. It is usually not intentional in the same way cops' wrongdoings usually aren't either. It's a tough job where lives will always be lost from both cops and citizens
All this being so true tho... :clap2:

[user104658]

I’d kick your soft arse all round Scotland [emoji1022]󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿:joker: don't threaten me with a good time Sheriff.

[caprimint]

This thread would always have been relevant.
Yes, I know, because you would have made it be.

Doesn't mean it would, or should have been ultimately. It ONLY is regarding recent circumstances, not in the real/general world in disregard of the George Floyd situation.

[Liam-]

Asking cops to be good and professional at their jobs isn’t the same as asking them to put themselves at risk

[caprimint]

You're right, this probably wouldn't have been news 3 months and that's where the problem lies. Black people have complained FOR YEARS about the treatment they receive at the hands of the Police but it has taken the death of a man for this to become mainstream news and force the Police force to look long and hard at some of the actions of a minority of officers. It needs to be highlighted and dealt with now so the Police can get on with what is a very hard job, professionally.
The real issue is... if it was a white guy it would have never even been news lol

[Marsh.]

The real issue is... if it was a white guy it would have never even been news lol

Aww, people never think of the white people.

[Jigs]

Pointing out when an officer is using inappropriate excessive force is NOT asking for them to be "lenient and let their guard down". It's a gross misrepresentation of what's actually being said.

Tea!

You can apply an adequate amount of force whilst still abiding by protocols. The two are not mutually exclusive. I mean jeez surely we all learn at a very early age that the neck is a very important body part and probably shouldn't be knelt on...

[Liam-]

Didn’t realise police brutality started 3 years ago

[JerseyWins]

Pointing out when an officer is using inappropriate excessive force is NOT asking for them to be "lenient and let their guard down". It's a gross misrepresentation of what's actually being said.
Just an example of what can happen while the cops are on the job trying to arrest someone. Not saying it means excessive force needs to be applied but some kind of force often does need to be and if a type of inappropriate wrong procedure ends up being applied it shouldn't be punished in the same way it is in other jobs when their lives are threatened while doing their jobs. People shouldn't be killed but as for excessive force in some ways, the job literally involves murder and includes murderers in that field of work. Most other people don't get murdered while trying to do their jobs, it's not comparable to other jobs out there. It needs to be regulated accordingly &
then punished when it goes OTT, for sure tho.

It's kinda subjective when "OTT" is "OTT" tho so that's where it's foggy and hard to regulate

Do firefighters get punished and scrutinized when a wrong procedure or mistake is made trying to save lives in a burning building? Sooome kind of punishment might occur depending what the mistake was but it is never severe and they are never scrutinized for trying to do their job in a high intensity life-threatening situation the way they saw fit.

[Jigs]

Didn’t realise police brutality started 3 years ago

:joker::joker::joker:

[The Slim Reaper]

Yes, I know, because you would have made it be.

Doesn't mean it would, or should have been ultimately. It ONLY is regarding recent circumstances, not in the real/general world in disregard of the George Floyd situation.

I would have created the thread if the George Floyd incident had never happened. Not sure I have the ability to make a thread relevant (looks mournfully at all the threads I've created with zero replies :bawling: ).

[Jigs]

Do firefighters get punished and scrutinized when a wrong procedure or mistake is made trying to save lives in a burning building? Sooome kind of punishment might occur depending what the mistake was but it is never severe and they are never scrutinized for trying to do their job in a high intensity life-threatening situation the way they saw fit.

This is a great point BUT the firefighters are never directly responsible for any victims that perish in the incident. There are no out-and-out murders in a house fire the same way that there are in a situation where police officers literally cause the death of others.

[user104658]

I reckon I'm team Capri on the general thread stuff by the whayyy. I like most y'all individually, honestly, but there is some cliquey stuff/ganging up that goes on and it just doesn't tickle my pickle.

[caprimint]

Just an example of what can happen while the cops are on the job trying to arrest someone. Not saying it means excessive force needs to be applied but some kind of force often does need to be and if a type of inappropriate wrong procedure ends up being applied it shouldn't be punished in the same way it is in other jobs when their lives are threatened while doing their jobs. People shouldn't be killed but as for excessive force in some ways, the job literally involves murder and includes murderers in that field of work. Most other people don't get murdered while trying to do their jobs, it's not comparable to other jobs out there. It needs to be regulated accordingly &
then punished when it goes OTT, for sure tho.

It's kinda subjective when "OTT" is "OTT" tho so that's where it's foggy and hard to regulate

Do firefighters get punished and scrutinized when a wrong procedure or mistake is made trying to save lives in a burning building? Sooome kind of punishment might occur depending what the mistake was but it is never severe and they are never scrutinized for trying to do their job in a high intensity life-threatening situation the way they saw fit.
YES YES YES

The truth in this tho

[Crimson Dynamo]

You're right, this probably wouldn't have been news 3 months and that's where the problem lies. Black people have complained FOR YEARS about the treatment they receive at the hands of the Police .

In the UK?

how do you work that out?

[caprimint]

I reckon I'm team Capri on the general thread stuff by the whayyy. I like most y'all individually, honestly, but there is some cliquey stuff/ganging up that goes on and it just doesn't tickle my pickle.
:love:

[caprimint]

I would have created the thread if the George Floyd incident had never happened. Not sure I have the ability to make a thread relevant (looks mournfully at all the threads I've created with zero replies :bawling: ).
Yeah... I really doubt it lol

[Tom4784]

Spend more time in the gym then you might be able to lift more than a pen.

Spend less time at the imaginary gym and you might be able to read what I write.

[Liam-]

I reckon I'm team Capri on the general thread stuff by the whayyy. I like most y'all individually, honestly, but there is some cliquey stuff/ganging up that goes on and it just doesn't tickle my pickle.

Yeah the treatment of Ammi really is appalling

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yeah... I really doubt it lol

you are not alone...

[rusticgal]

Unlike other jobs where you're punished for a wrong procedure, a police officer's life is threatened while doing their job. All it takes is one swift move by one criminal on any given day and it could very well be the end of their life. But the way cops are being scrutinized these days for any type of force shown on the job is very questionable. In a case like George Floyd, the cop did wrong and should be punished because he just allowed George to die while he was well past getting George securely on the ground where there was no chance for escape etc.

Look at what happened with that story of the guy at the Wendy's drive thru? Two officers being very lenient and letting their guard down allowed the man to break free AND take a taser from one of them while it was TWO ON ONE. Do people not see how easy it can be for an actual criminal to get the upper hand and end up killing a cop when force isn't applied? It resulted in the man being wrongly murdered in the end during a chase but it could've all been prevented. I can't blame cops too much for showing excessive force on the job when any seemingly 'harmless person' can flip on a dime while being under the threat of arrest. If it's not an OTT cold-blooded case (like what Derek did), there is no way 'incorrect procedure' should be punished in the same way it's punished in other jobs. Also, idk about where you guys are from but when a doctor messes up on an operation it has no type of severe consequence unless it is deemed to be a reoccurred thing or something purposely done for illegal reasons. Regardless, a doctor doesn't have his life threatened at work so they should be punished more than cops for wrong procedures & mistakes at work but they are not because it is not in the public eye in the same way. It is usually not intentional in the same way cops' wrongdoings usually aren't either. It's a tough job where lives will always be lost from both cops and citizens


You make some very good points. The police have to react how they feel necessary to protect themselves and the public you cannot second guess things when you are dealing with someone who can kill you in a split second. This guy was cuffed but he was still armed. This officer did little wrong imo...restraining an armed man who was resisting...but because of the unfortunate incident with George Floyd it was uncomfortable to watch. He soon removed his knee from the side of his head when the aggressor complained. The officer was young and looked very anxious. Hopefully he will be reprimanded and retrained.
However there are bad apples in every workplace...always has been and sadly always will be...but this officer doesn’t look like one. He wasn’t smug and certainly didn’t look like he was enjoying his power...just trying to do his job.

[Crimson Dynamo]

You make some very good points. The police have to react how they feel necessary to protect themselves and the public you cannot second guess things when you are dealing with someone who can kill you in a split second. This guy was cuffed but he was still armed. This officer did little wrong imo...restraining an armed man who was resisting...but because of the unfortunate incident with George Floyd it was uncomfortable to watch. He soon removed his knee from the side of his head when the aggressor complained. The officer was young and looked very anxious. Hopefully he will be reprimanded and retrained.
However there are bad apples in every workplace...always has been and sadly always will be...but this officer doesn’t look like one. He wasn’t smug and certainly didn’t look like he was enjoying his power...just trying to do his job.

yes how dare he not try to die

:skull:

[AnnieK]

In the UK?

how do you work that out?

Google is your friend....you know, or watch the news, read stuff.....:shrug:

[JerseyWins]

You make some very good points. The police have to react how they feel necessary to protect themselves and the public you cannot second guess things when you are dealing with someone who can kill you in a split second. This guy was cuffed but he was still armed. This officer did little wrong imo...restraining an armed man who was resisting...but because of the unfortunate incident with George Floyd it was uncomfortable to watch. He soon removed his knee from the side of his head when the aggressor complained. The officer was young and looked very anxious. Hopefully he will be reprimanded and retrained.
However there are bad apples in every workplace...always has been and sadly always will be...but this officer doesn’t look like one. He wasn’t smug and certainly didn’t look like he was enjoying his power...just trying to do his job.
100% this

[caprimint]

You make some very good points. The police have to react how they feel necessary to protect themselves and the public you cannot second guess things when you are dealing with someone who can kill you in a split second. This guy was cuffed but he was still armed. This officer did little wrong imo...restraining an armed man who was resisting...but because of the unfortunate incident with George Floyd it was uncomfortable to watch. He soon removed his knee from the side of his head when the aggressor complained. The officer was young and looked very anxious. Hopefully he will be reprimanded and retrained.
However there are bad apples in every workplace...always has been and sadly always will be...but this officer doesn’t look like one. He wasn’t smug and certainly didn’t look like he was enjoying his power...just trying to do his job.
Again, you wrote everything absolutely perfectly :clap2:

[Tom4784]

Yeah, maybe that cop should have been suspended or something.

It's excellent that he was and I hope this incident rubs off on all officers as a reminder to police properly.

Actions have consequences and those consequences shouldn't be lessened because of an imaginary narrative.

[The Slim Reaper]

Yeah... I really doubt it lol

Which part? That I would have created the thread, or that I can make a thread relevant (which is a bit weird, so i hope it's the first one).

[Crimson Dynamo]

Google is your friend....you know, or watch the news, read stuff.....:shrug:

you made the claim?

[The Slim Reaper]

you are not alone...

For I am here with you?

[AnnieK]

I reckon I'm team Capri on the general thread stuff by the whayyy. I like most y'all individually, honestly, but there is some cliquey stuff/ganging up that goes on and it just doesn't tickle my pickle.

It doesn't sit well with me either TS, but there is more than one group who like to do it....let's not make it like there's one "clique / gang" whatever you want to call it

[Liam-]

Nobody is saying they shouldn’t restrain people, it’s so dishonest to infer otherwise, there was no need whatsoever to kneel on a handcuffed persons head/neck while they’re on the floor, there was two of them, they could have restrained him if they sat on him, instead he chose to do something completely away from their training, he made that choice, he’s facing the consequences, if they think he can be trained to never do it again, give him his job back and make sure it never does, cops shouldn’t have free reign to do whatever they want whenever they want to

[AnnieK]

you made the claim?

Lol...

[Marsh.]

Do firefighters get punished and scrutinized when a wrong procedure or mistake is made trying to save lives in a burning building? Sooome kind of punishment might occur depending what the mistake was but it is never severe and they are never scrutinized for trying to do their job in a high intensity life-threatening situation the way they saw fit.

How do you know this?

If a firefighter was at fault for the serious harm or death of a civilian, I imagine they would go through a disciplinary procedure.

[caprimint]

Which part? That I would have created the thread, or that I can make a thread relevant (which is a bit weird, so i hope it's the first one).
That you would have made the thread to begin with... in light of your recent thread creations :think:

But anyway... don't get too ahead of yourself :douf:

[The Slim Reaper]

I reckon I'm team Capri on the general thread stuff by the whayyy. I like most y'all individually, honestly, but there is some cliquey stuff/ganging up that goes on and it just doesn't tickle my pickle.

Which bits, because I haven't seen any cliquey stuff in here? Although I haven't read the whole thread from start to finish.

[Liam-]

How do you know this?

If a firefighter was at fault for the serious harm or death of a civilian, I imagine they would go through a disciplinary procedure.

.

Public servant jobs are so strict, they have procedures for everything because they know they have to held to a higher standard and everyone knows that when they sign up, getting mad on the behalf of someone who knows what will happen if they’re caught something they shouldn’t, literally makes zero sense

[GiRTh]

In the UK?

how do you work that out?Brixton riots were in 1981 LT. I know you're old enough to remember so can you remind the forum what they were over? I think Annie should change her post to 'DECADES' not 'YEARS'.

[Cherie]

aYou make some very good points. The police have to react how they feel necessary to protect themselves and the public you cannot second guess things when you are dealing with someone who can kill you in a split second. This guy was cuffed but he was still armed. This officer did little wrong imo...restraining an armed man who was resisting...but because of the unfortunate incident with George Floyd it was uncomfortable to watch. He soon removed his knee from the side of his head when the aggressor complained. The officer was young and looked very anxious. Hopefully he will be reprimanded and retrained.
However there are bad apples in every workplace...always has been and sadly always will be...but this officer doesn’t look like one. He wasn’t smug and certainly didn’t look like he was enjoying his power...just trying to do his job.

yes he looked super stressed, and you can tell he knew he had ****ed up, its bad enough trying to do a job where you are putting yourself in danger, now you have the added danger of zero respect from sections of the public who stand around mocking, goading filming or attacking.... a young officer who should be taken under the wing of his superiors not thrown aside to make the force look good, they send them out with no protective gear and in young pairs, that is a management **** up, but cover their arses by suspending him, he may be a bad apple, he may not but he is getting zero support from his employer as far as I can see if he is one of the decent ones, no one will want to join the force the way things are going for front line officers

[The Slim Reaper]

That you would have made the thread to begin with... in light of your recent thread creations :think:

But anyway... don't get too ahead of yourself :douf:

I'm touched that you searched my threads, but I've posted a lot about social justice.

[Marsh.]

Although I haven't read the whole thread from start to finish.

We're all just puppets on strings to you, aren't we?

[Liam-]

Which bits, because I haven't seen any cliquey stuff in here? Although I haven't read the whole thread from start to finish.

Something was brought up about you, Ammi and Livia for some reason, I think that’s what is being referred to, even though you or Ammi didn’t bring it up you just defended yourselves

[caprimint]

yes he looked super stressed, and you can tell he knew he had ****ed up, its bad enough trying to do a job where you are putting yourself in danger, now you have the added danger of zero respect from sections of the public who stand around mocking, goading filming or attacking.... a young officer who should be taken under the wing of his superiors not thrown aside to make the force look good, they send them out with no protective gear and in young pairs, that is a management **** up, but cover their arses by suspending him, he may be a bad apple, he may not but he is getting zero support from his employer as far as I can see if he is one of the decent one, no one will want to join the force the way things are going for front line officers
Yeah this & tbf I don't even think this would be seen as such an awful action again if the George Floyd incident never happened and people were not so paranoid about it...

In all honestly I think it's really wrong to "suspend" him because again this would never have happened a while ago but now unfortunately people are looking for reasons...

[Tom4784]

You make some very good points. The police have to react how they feel necessary to protect themselves and the public you cannot second guess things when you are dealing with someone who can kill you in a split second. This guy was cuffed but he was still armed. This officer did little wrong imo...restraining an armed man who was resisting...but because of the unfortunate incident with George Floyd it was uncomfortable to watch. He soon removed his knee from the side of his head when the aggressor complained. The officer was young and looked very anxious. Hopefully he will be reprimanded and retrained.
However there are bad apples in every workplace...always has been and sadly always will be...but this officer doesn’t look like one. He wasn’t smug and certainly didn’t look like he was enjoying his power...just trying to do his job.

The whole bad apple argument falls flat when the same people who defend the police by saying 'it's only a few bad apples' will have painted the BLM movement as violent because of rioters taking advantage of the cause.

He did the job badly and whether that's the result of bad training, inexperience or malicious intent is yet to be seen.

Again, relying on imaginary scenarios is pointless, especially when you're trying to overwrite what happened with what didn't. The man was on the floor and cuffed and there's more than one officer there. He shouldn't have put his knee anywhere near the man's neck or head in the first place. The whole argument that it was necessary to detain the suspect is bull**** too, police officers take down and arrest threats day in and day out without breaching protocol like that. We shouldn't defend incompetence, we should highlight it so that the police improves upon it.

If that police officer returns to duty, I can only hope that he has learned his lesson and that we don't see a repeat of this in the future.

[The Slim Reaper]

We're all just puppets on strings to you, aren't we?

:laugh:

If I only had half the power that people think I have :smug:

[caprimint]

I'm touched that you searched my threads, but I've posted a lot about social justice.
I've only seen one thread you created without searching anything and I guarantee you that was more than enough :joker: :facepalm:

[Marsh.]

Yeah this & tbf I don't even think this would be seen as such an awful action again if the George Floyd incident never happened and people were not so paranoid about it...

In all honestly I think it's really wrong to "suspend" him because again this would never have happened a while ago but now unfortunately people are looking for reasons...

A life threatening action wouldn't be seen as a life threatening action if someone's life hadn't been threatened by it?

[caprimint]

Something was brought up about you, Ammi and Livia for some reason, I think that’s what is being referred to, even though you or Ammi didn’t bring it up you just defended yourselves
Wot? Who said anything about Ammi other than the fact she replied lmao???

I brought up Livia but who cares? When its something relevant then I don't see the problem? Hence the George Floyd case in a bunch of these threads. :douf:

[The Slim Reaper]

I've only seen one thread you created without searching anything and I guarantee you that was more than enough :joker: :facepalm:

Tbf, that is something I can agree with you on.

[caprimint]

A life threatening action wouldn't be seen as a life threatening action if someone's life hadn't been threatened by it?
Sure, so the man with the knife should stop threatening people's lives to begin with.

[Tom4784]

Again, the situation isn't relevant. The protocol remains the same and that protocol was broken. That's the ****ing point.

[The Slim Reaper]

Wot? Who said anything about Ammi other than the fact she replied lmao???

I brought up Livia but who cares? When its something relevant then I don't see the problem? Hence the George Floyd case in a bunch of these threads. :douf:

It wasn't relevant to anything, that was the point.

[Marsh.]

Sure, so the man with the knife should stop threatening people's lives to begin with.

Right.... not sure anybody defended the criminal's right to be a criminal. :unsure:

Doesn't really have anything to do with an officer going against procedure.

Do you believe the police should do what they want because criminals are criminals and it doesn't matter? A slippery road but ok.

[caprimint]

No Dezzy. The thread would not have even been created/relevant if the man didn't stroll around the streets of London with a knife to begin with, as he shouldn't have.

You can trash the police all you like, but at the end of the day the **** the police caught was the only person in the wrong here.

[Marsh.]

No Dezzy. The thread would not have even been created/relevant if the man didn't stroll around the streets of London with a knife to begin with, as he shouldn't have.

You can trash the police all you like, but at the end of the day the **** the police caught was the only person in the wrong here.

So.... the person being arrested is at fault for the person trained to arrest them ignoring their training?

You're arguing against a point with a point nobody made.

[The Slim Reaper]

Something was brought up about you, Ammi and Livia for some reason, I think that’s what is being referred to, even though you or Ammi didn’t bring it up you just defended yourselves

So who does soldier think the clique in this thread was? He's reading, so maybe he'll clarify.

[caprimint]

So.... the person being arrested is at fault for the person trained to arrest them ignoring their training?

You're arguing against a point with a point nobody made.
I think you're doing the exact same Marsh, but vice versa.

Why are people acting like they know "police training" here? :conf: I don't get it.

Regardless, as I said previously, even if the police didn't get trained for something and caught a criminal, I literally could not care LESS. All the guys who stroll around London, or the UK in general with knives should absolutely be arrested and again... I don't care if "inappropriate" actions are put down on them because they are doing wrong to begin with. Stop trying to defend people who carry weapons.

[Tom4784]

No Dezzy. The thread would not have even been created/relevant if the man didn't stroll around the streets of London with a knife to begin with, as he shouldn't have.

You can trash the police all you like, but at the end of the day the **** the police caught was the only person in the wrong here.

How many times must I explain it to you before it finally sinks in? It's not a difficult concept to grasp.

The situation does not matter, what matters is the response. Handling someone carrying a knife is a common situation for police officers and police officers handle it everyday without having to break their protocol, without casting aside their training.

Saying that the police officer's actions don't matter because the situation wouldn't have happened without the suspect shows a serious lack of moral understanding on your part. You cannot blame the decisions you make on someone else. It doesn't matter how the situation came about, it only matters how the police officer acted because that's what the thread is about and the board overlooking this case obviously agrees.

If you get pulled into a bad situation, you can't blame someone else if you choose to make a bad decision. That's not how morality works because, as I've said multiple times at this point, plenty of police officers have acted appropriately in the exact same situation because they stuck to their training.

The police officer made a bad choice and he broke the rules he had to follow and he's been punished for it, that's the long and short of it.

It's not about trashing the police, it's about holding them accountable to their mistakes.

[Liam-]

You can agree with criminals being arrested and believe police should act within the realms of professional standards in the process, they’re not combative opinions

[Marsh.]

I think you're doing the exact same Marsh, but vice versa.

Why are people acting like they know "police training" here? :conf: I don't get it.

Regardless, as I said previously, even if the police didn't get trained for something and caught a criminal, I literally could not care LESS. All the guys who stroll around London, or the UK in general with knives should absolutely be arrested and again... I don't care if "inappropriate" actions are put down on them because they are doing wrong to begin with. Stop trying to defend people who carry weapons.

Right, YOU couldn't care less. That's fine.
Whether you think it's right or wrong isn't the issue though is it?

It's whether officers are breaking the laws themselves. You don't care about it, that's fine, doesn't actually mean it doesn't matter or that it's ok though, does it? Because it's a slippery slope from scrapping with the people they're arresting (and usually at the point of arrest it doesn't always mean any charges will be brought yet, so judging that it doesn't matter what happens to criminals at the point of arrest is really just... dumb) and completely disregarding any and all protocols and rules.

So, responding with "But the criminal is naughty" is utterly pointless and distracting from what actually is being said.

[Tom4784]

You can agree with criminals being arrested and believe police should act within the realms of professional standards in the process, they’re not combative opinions

Exactly.

[Crimson Dynamo]

dont rise to it mint

[caprimint]

How many times must I explain it to you before it finally sinks in? It's not a difficult concept to grasp.

The situation does not matter, what matters is the response. Handling someone carrying a knife is a common situation for police officers and police officers handle it everyday without having to break their protocol, without casting aside their training.

Saying that the police officer's actions don't matter because the situation wouldn't have happened without the suspect shows a serious lack of moral understanding on your part. You cannot blame the decisions you make on someone else. It doesn't matter how the situation came about, it only matters how the police officer acted because that's what the thread is about and the board overlooking this case obviously agrees.

If you get pulled into a bad situation, you can't blame someone else if you choose to make a bad decision. That's not how morality works because, as I've said multiple times at this point, plenty of police officers have acted appropriately in the exact same situation because they stuck to their training.

The police officer made a bad choice and he broke the rules he had to follow and he's been punished for it, that's the long and short of it.

It's not about trashing the police, it's about holding them accountable to their mistakes.
Again... I don't think anybody in here necessarily agrees with the policeman's actions, but I do also think that a majority of people in here would actually agree with what he did, out of fear of themselves or their families being hurt, which is ultimately the better decision.

If he did not carry a knife as I said... there would be no need for threads like this to even exist but people still want to TRASH the way he handled things... which imo says a lot about them.

[caprimint]

dont rise to it mint
:joker: :douf:

[Marsh.]

:facepalm:

Police bad

Grr

Another scumbag off the street. Well done our bobbies

Well said

More excuses for crime, more attacks on our brave police. Abhorrent imo

:clap1:

In the UK?

how do you work that out?

you are not alone...

yes how dare he not try to die

:skull:

you made the claim?

dont rise to it mint

:joker:

[Tom4784]

Again... I don't think anybody in here necessarily agrees with the policeman's actions, but I do also think that a majority of people in here would actually agree with what he did, out of fear of themselves or their families being hurt, which is ultimately the better decision.

If he did not carry a knife as I said... there would be no need for threads like this to even exist but people still want to TRASH the way he handled things... which imo says a lot about them.

So you agree with police brutality out of a fear of something that didn't happen? That's.... ridiculous. People like you are just determined to throw your own rights away.

[The Slim Reaper]

:joker:

You're not alone :joker:

[Marsh.]

Again... I don't think anybody in here necessarily agrees with the policeman's actions, but I do also think that a majority of people in here would actually agree with what he did, out of fear of themselves or their families being hurt, which is ultimately the better decision.

If he did not carry a knife as I said... there would be no need for threads like this to even exist but people still want to TRASH the way he handled things... which imo says a lot about them.

BIB - So, you DO agree with the policeman's actions.

[caprimint]

Right, YOU couldn't care less. That's fine.
Whether you think it's right or wrong isn't the issue though is it?

It's whether officers are breaking the laws themselves. You don't care about it, that's fine, doesn't actually mean it doesn't matter or that it's ok though, does it? Because it's a slippery slope from scrapping with the people they're arresting (and usually at the point of arrest it doesn't always mean any charges will be brought yet, so judging that it doesn't matter what happens to criminals at the point of arrest is really just... dumb) and completely disregarding any and all protocols and rules.

So, responding with "But the criminal is naughty" is utterly pointless and distracting from what actually is being said.
Well it kind of is? We are all giving our own opinions here, no???

I don't understand why you care about police officers "breaking the laws" but not the public lmao.

I really don't know what else I can say here because... there is one blatant, obvious thing here to acknowledge, which the only one that people want to ignore.

[Liam-]

The suggestion that this sort of thing only happens because people carry weapons is actually so laughable

[caprimint]

So you agree with police brutality out of a fear of something that didn't happen? That's.... ridiculous. People like you are just determined to throw your own rights away.
Uhhhhhhhh... yeah. I agree with those who carry weapons being handled in the way this guy was.

Don't do it and there will be no problem. It really ain't that hard, is it??

[Marsh.]

Well it kind of is? We are all giving our own opinions here, no???

I don't understand why you care about police officers "breaking the laws" but not the public lmao.

I really don't know what else I can say here because... there is one blatant, obvious thing here to acknowledge, which the only one that people want to ignore.

BIB - Where did I say this?

Again, you're arguing a point nobody made.

Wanting police officers to not be vigilantes that do as they please and actually operate within lawful guidelines protects everyone, including themselves.

[Liam-]

The police sign up to serve, protect and uphold the law, it’s literally their job to be lawful, so them breaking the law is a tad bit different to your average person breaking the law

[Marsh.]

The police sign up to serve, protect and uphold the law, it’s literally their job to be lawful, so them breaking the law is a tad bit different to your average person breaking the law

Erm, LET them twat Jason from down the street, it doesn't affect me.

OH and he COULD MURDER YOUR ENTIRELY FAMILY. What would you do then, eh?

[Crimson Dynamo]

when a large guy comes at you with a 9" knife. what are the lawful guidelines?

:think:

we would all love to know

:joker:

[Marsh.]

when a large guy comes at you with a 9" knife. what are the lawful guidelines?

:think:

we would all love to know

:joker:

If a man with a 9" knife was hacking away at people it wouldn't be these two officers on the scene. But you knew that.

[Cherie]

If a man with a 9" knife was hacking away at people it wouldn't be these two officers on the scene. But you knew that.

wasn't it a lone policeman who rugby tackled the Reading knife attacker as he was fleeing?

[Marsh.]

wasn't it a lone policeman who rugby tackled the Reading knife attacker as he was fleeing?

One policeman called to the scene? No.

[caprimint]

when a large guy comes at you with a 9" knife. what are the lawful guidelines?

:think:

we would all love to know

:joker:
GAHHHHHA SHJDHD :skull: :joker:

I feel like this thread needed something like this

[caprimint]

If a man with a 9" knife was hacking away at people it wouldn't be these two officers on the scene. But you knew that.
Do you actually think that any police at the scene have a chance against a knife?

Clearly you have no experience, which was needless to say from the beginning of your replies anyway

[caprimint]

Let’s call a spade a spade here.

It’s literally the known racists of the forum that have an issue with it :joker:
Stop trying to call people racists who don't agree with a man carrying a knife.

Literally so strange :conf2:

[Marsh.]

Do you actually think that any police at the scene have a chance against a knife?

Clearly you have no experience, which was needless to say from the beginning of your replies anyway

Oh are we pretending the officer had a knife in his face and didn't have the man on the ground and cuffed?

Ok.

Are we pretending there aren't protocols for armed criminals to ensure the police DO have a chance against a knife?

Ok.

Are we also pretending you have experience of tackling people with knives?

Ok.

Are we also pretending your argument makes any rational sense?

Ok.

[Marsh.]

GAHHHHHA SHJDHD :skull: :joker:

I feel like this thread needed something like this

The man could also HAVE HAD A BOMB!!!! Still doesn't change the actual events.

[caprimint]

Oh are we pretending the officer had a knife in his face and didn't have the man on the ground and cuffed?

Ok.

Are we also pretending you have experience of tackling people with knives?

Ok.

Are we also pretending your argument makes any rational sense?

Ok.
Not that we saw, but we do know that the officers were aware he was dangerous (which was proven right) which was more than enough.

You don't have any experience of tackling people with knives either, so it's an irrelevant "point" you are trying to make there.

And tbh... I didn't from the beginning but at least I tried. https://i.imgur.com/6ClNhHV.png

[caprimint]

Catch the criminals who carry weapons on them as these policeman did and there will be no problems in the future :clap1:

[Marsh.]

You don't have any experience of tackling people with knives either, so it's an irrelevant "point" you are trying to make there.

Erm... it was your point I responded to.


Clearly you have no experience, which was needless to say from the beginning of your replies anyway

[caprimint]

Yeah cus I could see enough from the way you were replying innit

[user104658]

So who does soldier think the clique in this thread was? He's reading, so maybe he'll clarify.:nono: I was at Sainsburies actually, Tapatalk was open on this thread so that's probably why it said I was still on it.

The TiBB cliquiness wasn't specifically about this thread although there's some minor tag-teaming going on, it's just something that's obvious and ongoing for the whole forum. That's not really unusual I suppose, it's an old forum with a lot of long-term members, so it's probably somewhat inevitable. There are times when it's glaring though. As Annie pointed out its not entirely a one sided thing, although there is a section that is (in my view) encreasingly emboldened and smug and I don't think it's a very good look... Especially given some of the "private stuff" that has a habit of leaking. The pile-ons aren't much fun to watch either, I mean yes sometimes people are full of **** that deserves calling out but... When one person who is perfectly capable of holding their own is doing that amply and 4 or 5 others tag along to have a pop? It just... I dunno. Grubby. Yuck, etc.

It makes me sad in my heart because I genuinely do like most members in various ways :smug: in a good thread or debate but when the circle-jerky stuff starts it all gets a bit sad.

[Marsh.]

Yeah cus I could see enough from the way you were replying innit

That I have no experience of being a police officer?

Then when I responded you're not a police officer yourself you told me it was an irrelevant point to make?

Ok Stacey :thumbs:

[Marsh.]

Sainsburies.

https://media0.giphy.com/media/9PcvSwYpIhhhHNyKKa/giphy.gif

[The Slim Reaper]

:nono: I was at Sainsburies actually, Tapatalk was open on this thread so that's probably why it said I was still on it.

The TiBB cliquiness wasn't specifically about this thread although there's some minor tag-teaming going on, it's just something that's obvious and ongoing for the whole forum. That's not really unusual I suppose, it's an old forum with a lot of long-term members, so it's probably somewhat inevitable. There are times when it's glaring though. As Annie pointed out its not entirely a one sided thing, although there is a section that is (in my view) encreasingly emboldened and smug and I don't think it's a very good look... Especially given some of the "private stuff" that has a habit of leaking. The pile-ons aren't much fun to watch either, I mean yes sometimes people are full of **** that deserves calling out but... When one person who is perfectly capable of holding their own is doing that amply and 4 or 5 others tag along to have a pop? It just... I dunno. Grubby. Yuck, etc.

It makes me sad in my heart because I genuinely do like most members in various ways :smug: in a good thread or debate but when the circle-jerky stuff starts it all gets a bit sad.

I get that, and I agree to an extent. Not sure why you posted that to do with my conversation though. I'm not part of any clique, so it was just weird that you chose that time, especially after my conversation with caprimint, when I asked her a question about her post and her next 569593 replies were specifically only about me and not the topic. The context didn't make any sense.

[Cherie]

:nono: I was at Sainsburies actually, Tapatalk was open on this thread so that's probably why it said I was still on it.

The TiBB cliquiness wasn't specifically about this thread although there's some minor tag-teaming going on, it's just something that's obvious and ongoing for the whole forum. That's not really unusual I suppose, it's an old forum with a lot of long-term members, so it's probably somewhat inevitable. There are times when it's glaring though. As Annie pointed out its not entirely a one sided thing, although there is a section that is (in my view) encreasingly emboldened and smug and I don't think it's a very good look... Especially given some of the "private stuff" that has a habit of leaking. The pile-ons aren't much fun to watch either, I mean yes sometimes people are full of **** that deserves calling out but... When one person who is perfectly capable of holding their own is doing that amply and 4 or 5 others tag along to have a pop? It just... I dunno. Grubby. Yuck, etc.

It makes me sad in my heart because I genuinely do like most members in various ways :smug: in a good thread or debate but when the circle-jerky stuff starts it all gets a bit sad.

since Solider left the bookies, he has not only gone SOFT but has started shopping at Sainbury's D: very middle class D:

[Cherie]

I get that, and I agree to an extent. Not sure why you posted that to do with my conversation though. I'm not part of any clique, so it was just weird that you chose that time, especially after my conversation with caprimint, when I asked her a question about her post and her next 569593 replies were specifically only about me and not the topic. The context didn't make any sense.

If you agree with anyone on TiBB you are part of their clique..that's how it works on TiBB, you no longer have a mind of your own you are part of a GROUP :bawling:

[user104658]

On the actual thread topic... Having bothered to ask some security and mental health professionals for the actual situation with this stuff rather than blaring layperson assumptions, it seems to be both more complicated and more simple than is being made out.

There are overall no hard and fast rules in defense and restraint, other than it has to be proportionate to the level of threat (to the professional, other members of public, and to the person being restrained themselves who can hurt the self with thrashing etc.)

If ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY there's no such thing as too much force. If someone is about to stab you, you can punch 'em square in the throat, so long as it was a genuine and provable last resort of self defense or to protect someone else.

This is of course why body cameras being mandatory is VITAL and why if you see something you think is excessive, you absolutely SHOULD film it and report it, as was done in this case.

What actually constitutes excessive force is down to the chain of command to decide and a court of law if necessary (obviously with the right to press for further scrilutiny if its being overlooked).

In this case, the officer's superiors clearly do think that there's a strong case for this being a needless and excessive use of force based on the video evidence.

That's it really. Open and shut. It's not really up to laypeople to decide that it might have been fine... His commanding officer says it wasn't fine so it wasn't fine. Either he ignored elements of his training or his training was lacking.

However... Using any means possible to restrain someone at all costs if they are a danger to themselves or others is valid, and for good reasons.

But yeah he used excessive force according to his own superiors so... End of story there, really. The only question is, was it due to poor training and inexperience or was it out of malice? I don't think there's any evidence at all of that in this case though. I do think there's conflation with George Floyd that are needless, disingenuous and ultimately unhelpful.

[user104658]

https://media0.giphy.com/media/9PcvSwYpIhhhHNyKKa/giphy.gifI went to M&S but it turns out they shut at 6 on a Sunday. I was almost sick right there in the car park.

[The Slim Reaper]

If you agree with anyone on TiBB you are part of their clique..that's how it works on TiBB, you no longer have a mind of your own you are part of a GROUP :bawling:

Good job I never agree with you on anything then :smug: I don't want you lowering the standards of my one man clique. :fist:

[Marsh.]

If you agree with anyone on TiBB you are part of their clique..that's how it works on TiBB, you no longer have a mind of your own you are part of a GROUP :bawling:

Tbf it can be fun.

I get accused for "ganging up with your friends" when I agree with someone I'm normally disagreeing with.

You can't win. :laugh:

[Liam-]

I got accused of ganging up with my pals on here but I don’t even have any :(