Epstein Judge’s son killed and husband shot at home

[Smithy]

1285038401356550145

Omg :worry:

[Ammi]

...how awful...I hope her husband recovers from his wounds...but to lose her son, just awful...

[user104658]

1285038401356550145

Omg :worry:

Has he been caught or any leads? Because that sounds quite clearly like a hit, probably intended for her, but he couldn't find her quickly enough and would have had to leave the scene due to the noise?

[Ammi]

A lawyer who shot dead a female judge's son before turning the gun on himself had ranted online about "Feminazi rule".
Roy Den Hollander gunned down Judge Esther Salas' son in New Jersey on Sunday and badly wounded her husband.
The gunman dressed as a FedEx delivery man before opening fire at their North Brunswick home, police said.
Den Hollander wrote on his website that the jurist was "a lazy and incompetent Latina judge appointed by Obama".
A package addressed to Judge Salas was found inside his car, sources said.

[Ammi]

...the suspect, Den Hollander...

‘NBC News reports that he also wrote of fantasising about the rape of a female judge who had presided over his divorce case.‘

[bots]

sounds pretty dodgy to me

[Ammi]

...it doesn't sound as though it’s in any way related to the Epstein case...it sounds as though his mental state was concerning and the judge and her family were obviously the focus of a disturbed mindset...

[arista]

[A lawyer who shot dead a female judge's son before
turning the gun on himself had ranted online about "Feminazi rule".
Roy Den Hollander gunned down Judge Esther Salas' son
in New Jersey on Sunday and badly wounded her husband.

The gunman dressed as a FedEx delivery man
before opening fire at their North Brunswick
home, police said.
Den Hollander wrote on his website that the jurist
was "a lazy and incompetent Latina judge appointed
by Obama".
A package addressed to Judge Salas
was found inside his car, sources said.]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53480166


Tragic.

[bots]

...it doesn't sound as though it’s in any way related to the Epstein case...it sounds as though his mental state was concerning and the judge and her family were obviously the focus of a disturbed mindset...

people like that can be easily manipulated unfortunately

[Niamh.]

A lawyer who shot dead a female judge's son before turning the gun on himself had ranted online about "Feminazi rule".
Roy Den Hollander gunned down Judge Esther Salas' son in New Jersey on Sunday and badly wounded her husband.
The gunman dressed as a FedEx delivery man before opening fire at their North Brunswick home, police said.
Den Hollander wrote on his website that the jurist was "a lazy and incompetent Latina judge appointed by Obama".
A package addressed to Judge Salas was found inside his car, sources said.

Horrifying

[Ammi]

Horrifying

....fantasising about raping a female judge who had presided over a case he worked on....jeeez...

[Niamh.]

....fantasising about raping a female judge who had presided over a case he worked on....jeeez...

You know what's very telling as well, so many of these guys online who refer to women as "feminazis" like to follow up with threats of rape against said feminazis ...........

[Ammi]

You know what's very telling as well, so many of these guys online who refer to women as "feminazis" like to follow up with threats of rape against said feminazis ...........

...maybe referring to females as feminazis, helps to dehumanise as well as villain’ise...to feed into the unhealthiness of their fantasies../...well his fantasy, specifically...but yeah, ‘feminazis’ will help to dehumanise, I think...

[user104658]

people like that can be easily manipulated unfortunately

I agree, my BS detectors are flashing on this one. I have no doubt that this was a very disturbed individual, but such individuals are very easily weaponized and scapegoated. She was assigned to the Epstein stuff a matter of DAYS ago. Too much of a coincidence for me, especially given Epsteins "Oh the guards went on a break at the same time for some reason and the cameras stopped working oh my" death.

[Ammi]

...oh it looks as though he killed himself btw...Den Hollander shot himself after the attack...

[Ammi]

....On his website, Den Hollander describes himself as an "anti-feminist" lawyer who defends "men's rights."....

[Tom4784]

Yeah, this is too suspiciously timed just to be a random attack by a far right lunatic. It's all too.... neatly wrapped up? I agree with BOTS that the guy was likely weaponised, not that it sheds him of guilt, he did the deed and deserves the credit for it but it wouldn't surprise me if there wasn't someone encouraging him to do it.

I'd be very surprised if he did actually shoot himself.

[Ammi]

...she wasn’t really though assigned to any Epstein stuff as such...that’s more a vague thing, it was a class action law suit brought against a bank because it’s alleged to not have been diligent enough with monitoring customers...Epstein was one of many customers and I think has only been named because of his high profile...Isn’t the whole point of the class action lawsuit aimed at ‘dodgy people’ as customers...:laugh:.../...anyways, I don’t think it sounds related and mentioning Epstein as the media have, just clouds it...but we’ll see as more information becomes known...





On Thursday, Salas was assigned to handle a class action lawsuit brought against Deutsche Bank by Ali Karimi on behalf of investors who purchased securities from the bank between November 7, 2017, and July 6, 2020. The complaint alleges that the bank "failed to properly monitor customers that the Bank itself deemed to be high risk, including, among others, the convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein," federal court records show.

[Niamh.]

You can just imagine who was on Epsteins lists for this amount of strings being pulled

[user104658]

"After the attack, he shot himself in the back of the head. Twice."

(Note: This is not an actual part of the story, but I really would NOT be surprised.)


The whole thing reminds me a LOT of poor Jill Dando, who was assassinated on her doorstep... someone was scapegoated... that was eventually overturned but enough time had passed that no one really bothered to look into what actually happened to her (which is that she was killed because she was investigating BBC paedophiles and clearly turned over a rock she shouldn't have).

[user104658]

You can just imagine who was on Epsteins lists for this amount of strings being pulled

The insane thing is that we KNOW. We know a tonne of high-profile people that were clearly on his lists. The alarming part is that may be the tip of the iceberg and you have to wonder which names are on there that have managed to stay more discreet.

[Niamh.]

"After the attack, he shot himself in the back of the head. Twice."

(Note: This is not an actual part of the story, but I really would NOT be surprised.)


The whole thing reminds me a LOT of poor Jill Dando, who was assassinated on her doorstep... someone was scapegoated... that was eventually overturned but enough time had passed that no one really bothered to look into what actually happened to her (which is that she was killed because she was investigating BBC paedophiles and clearly turned over a rock she shouldn't have).

:laugh2:

But on a serious yeah, it's scary, it all sounds like such a crazy conspiracy theory starting to be looking true. This stuff needs to be exposed

[Ammi]

...but why would the family of a judge who was assigned a class action lawsuit, which isn’t really related to Epstein as such, be the ‘target’.... maybe I’m having a slow day but I just don’t get the connection at all because it’s not really Epstein related...

[user104658]

:laugh2:

But on a serious yeah, it's scary, it all sounds like such a crazy conspiracy theory starting to be looking true. This stuff needs to be exposed

Who knows - maybe it's all related? Maybe Jill Dando knocked over a Prince-Andrew-Shaped rock when she was investigating allegations at the beeb.

[Niamh.]

The insane thing is that we KNOW. We know a tonne of high-profile people that were clearly on his lists. The alarming part is that may be the tip of the iceberg and you have to wonder which names are on there that have managed to stay more discreet.

Yeah I guess the two people that immediately spring to mind alone could be the major "string pullers" by themselves, they seem completely untouchable though. It's ****ing depressing actually

[Niamh.]

Who knows - maybe it's all related? Maybe Jill Dando knocked over a Prince-Andrew-Shaped rock when she was investigating allegations at the beeb.

very very possible

[Liam-]

Let’s not forget the banks ties with Trump too

[user104658]

...but why would the family of a judge who was assigned a class action lawsuit, which isn’t really related to Epstein as such, be the ‘target’.... maybe I’m having a slow day but I just don’t get the connection at all because it’s not really Epstein related...

She had literally just been assigned to Deutsche Bank case which was "discreetly" handling a tonne of Epsteins finances despite knowing of the allegations against him. A case that will involve a massive paper trail of high-value transactions, from ... ? Well that's the big question isn't it.

[Ammi]

She had literally just been assigned to Deutsche Bank case which was "discreetly" handling a tonne of Epsteins finances despite knowing of the allegations against him. A case that will involve a massive paper trail of high-value transactions, from ... ? Well that's the big question isn't it.

...(...banks handle finances, it’s what they do...:laugh:..)...and the whole reason for the class action suit is that it relates to many ‘dubious’ clients, Epstein only being one of many...and I imagine someone of his wealth would have finances in many, many banks as well...I’ve looked at so many articles on the shooting and Epstein is barely mentioned because the link to Epstein...(...in my opinion...)...is very, very vague...but obviously it’s the ‘sensationalised’ value....mind you, it’s not even that because none of the stories are linking it...I’m going to stick to my non-Epstein related conspiracy theory....the guy fantasised about raping her, he was mentally unsettled and was ‘his own manipulation’ is my opinion atm...

[user104658]

...(...banks handle finances, it’s what they do...:laugh:..)...and the whole reason for the class action suit is that it relates to many ‘dubious’ clients, Epstein only being one of many...and I imagine someone of his wealth would have finances in many, many banks as well...I’ve looked at so many articles on the shooting and Epstein is barely mentioned because the link to Epstein...(...in my opinion...)...is very, very vague...but obviously it’s the ‘sensationalised’ value....mind you, it’s not even that because none of the stories are linking it...I’m going to stick to my non-Epstein related conspiracy theory....the guy fantasised about raping her, he was mentally unsettled and was ‘his own manipulation’ is my opinion atm...

https://i.imgur.com/p7tSdPN.jpg

[Ammi]

...I thought you were better than that, TS...I’ll leave you to your theories...

[bots]

lets not forget that deutsche bank have just been ordered to provide details of Trump's finances too. The whole lot of them were up to their necks in it, and I do find the hit very suspicious

[The Slim Reaper]

Let’s not forget the banks ties with Trump too

lets not forget that deutsche bank have just been ordered to provide details of Trump's finances too. The whole lot of them were up to their necks in it, and I do find the hit very suspicious

I agree, I think we'll find out it was a Trump supporter mixed in with 4chan QAnon conspiracy theorist.

He'll say "she was trying to stop Trump from exposing the world child trafficking ring run by the clintons"

[Ammi]

While speaking about Esther Salas, he claimed he often ran into trouble with female judges of Latin American descent, claiming they were "driven by an inferiority complex."


On his website, Roy Den Hollander described himself as an "anti-feminist" lawyer who defended "men's rights." His personal writings and life's work reveal a toxic stew of sexist and racist bigotry.

He had unsuccessfully filed lawsuits against bars and night clubs offering "ladies' nights," claiming they violate the 14th Amendment, and he filed suits against the federal government, challenging the constitutionality of its Violence Against Women Act -- the "Female Fraud Act," as he referred to it -- and against Columbia University, for its Women's Studies program.

The attorney penned lengthy documents filled with bigoted and sexist content on his website. One document, which he called a "Cyclopedia," is 152 pages of anti-feminist musings.
In the so-called "Evolutionarily Correct Cyclopedia," Den Hollander made chilling remarks about "solutions" to what he called "Political Commies" and feminists.
"Things begin to change when individual men start taking out those specific persons responsible for destroying their lives before committing suicide," he wrote.

[Tom4784]

A gross incel, it seems.

Still, it's too convenient to be just a random burst of incel violence and the fact he turned up dead is suspicious too. Oh well, may he rest in piss.

[Niamh.]

While speaking about Esther Salas, he claimed he often ran into trouble with female judges of Latin American descent, claiming they were "driven by an inferiority complex."


On his website, Roy Den Hollander described himself as an "anti-feminist" lawyer who defended "men's rights." His personal writings and life's work reveal a toxic stew of sexist and racist bigotry.

He had unsuccessfully filed lawsuits against bars and night clubs offering "ladies' nights," claiming they violate the 14th Amendment, and he filed suits against the federal government, challenging the constitutionality of its Violence Against Women Act -- the "Female Fraud Act," as he referred to it -- and against Columbia University, for its Women's Studies program.

The attorney penned lengthy documents filled with bigoted and sexist content on his website. One document, which he called a "Cyclopedia," is 152 pages of anti-feminist musings.
In the so-called "Evolutionarily Correct Cyclopedia," Den Hollander made chilling remarks about "solutions" to what he called "Political Commies" and feminists.
"Things begin to change when individual men start taking out those specific persons responsible for destroying their lives before committing suicide," he wrote.

I was really surprised at how many men seem to have opinions like his, not probably a great source but reading through Youtube comments sometimes is terrifying for stuff like that. Comments like the world is falling apart because of feminists, because women were allowed to vote, men should never have "given" women their rights etc etc and so many of them

[Tom4784]

The internet is full of angry losers that think they are entitled to sex and servitude from women. Gross creatures.

[Ammi]

I was really surprised at how many men seem to have opinions like his, not probably a great source but reading through Youtube comments sometimes is terrifying for stuff like that. Comments like the world is falling apart because of feminists, because women were allowed to vote, men should never have "given" women their rights etc etc and so many of them

...it may be that there is a connection to Trump or Epstein etc..?...but atm that’s a ‘theory’ that isn’t being investigated or reported so far as I can see...so I find it quite upsetting that it feels as though his extreme hatred for females is being pushed aside or overlooked or note a prime focus...and this is ABOUT A MAN...everything I read about him points to him being someone who was filled with hate for females and especially females of minority race, it would seem...and yeah, I’m hearing more and more about this type of ‘incel’ person and I think that should be the focus very much as well...that these Extreme hateful feelings toward women do exist...

[Niamh.]

...it may be that there is a connection to Trump or Epstein etc..?...but atm that’s a ‘theory’ that isn’t being investigated or reported so far as I can see...so I find it quite upsetting that it feels as though his extreme hatred for females is being pushed aside or overlooked....and this is ABOUT A MAN...everything I read about him points to him being someone who was filled with hate for females and especially females of minority race, it would seem...and yeah, I’m hearing more and more about this type of ‘incel’ person and I think that should be the focus very much as well...that these Extreme hateful feelings toward women do exist...

I guess you could argue that everyone involved in the Epstein stuff must hate women as well or see them as "things" rather than real people but yes I know what you're saying

[Ammi]

I guess you could argue that everyone involved in the Epstein stuff must hate women as well or see them as "things" rather than real people but yes I know what you're saying

....hmmmm, I guess so in terms of ‘integrity’...but I think money is a huge motivation as well, so people will always find ways of distancing themselves from the integrity they think they have for the dollar or the prestige of a case, maybe...I don’t know, that’s just musings as to why people do things...

[Ammi]

...maybe I’m just feeling emotional but the thought that her son was killed and her husband could have been as well...just because she was a woman and no other reason...it’s upsetting me so much and I can’t imagine how she must be feeling, I really can’t...it’s awful...

[user104658]

...it may be that there is a connection to Trump or Epstein etc..?...but atm that’s a ‘theory’ that isn’t being investigated or reported so far as I can see...so I find it quite upsetting that it feels as though his extreme hatred for females is being pushed aside or overlooked....and this is ABOUT A MAN...everything I read about him points to him being someone who was filled with hate for females and especially females of minority race, it would seem...and yeah, I’m hearing more and more about this type of ‘incel’ person and I think that should be the focus very much as well...that these Extreme hateful feelings toward women do exist...

I don't think it has to be one or the other; these hateful individuals are very real obviously and it's an unhinged and potentially dangerous mindset that should absolutely be taken VERY seriously. However, individuals who are already filled with anger & hatred are easy targets for extreme action if someone wants to arm them, rile them up & point them in the right direction, as we know all too well from religious extremism and terrorist actions. Yes, half of the story is the hatred and violence of that individual. The other half is the people in the background pointing them in the direction of "somewhere to express that hatred" and strapping a bomb to their chest, which can be either literal or metaphorical. These incel groups, if you look at them, are extremist groups. They have their beliefs and their dogma and their "bibles" even... it's not all that different to a religious extremism at all. Maybe it's partly because the "incel stuff" isn't a new thing for me at all, I've known about it and encountered these warped individuals online for years.

So I think all of what you say can be true, with it still being worth asking "why THIS person being targetted at THIS moment" when it seems a little too convenient for her to be targetted for other reasons. The hatred and the desire to hurt & destroy was all his, but did someone give him the means and point him in the right direction? It's worth considering.

The Jill Dando stuff is not a conspiracy theory by the way; the "unhinged stalker fan" who was jailed for her killing had the conviction removed and the police officially ruled it a professional assassination, years after the event. They just don't know by who, or why. But she was investigating paedophilia at the BBC long before the Saville scandal broke, so I'd say it's easy enough to draw a conclusion, even if it can't be proved.

[Ammi]

I don't think it has to be one or the other; these hateful individuals are very real obviously and it's an unhinged and potentially dangerous mindset that should absolutely be taken VERY seriously. However, individuals who are already filled with anger & hatred are easy targets for extreme action if someone wants to arm them, rile them up & point them in the right direction, as we know all too well from religious extremism and terrorist actions. Yes, half of the story is the hatred and violence of that individual. The other half is the people in the background pointing them in the direction of "somewhere to express that hatred" and strapping a bomb to their chest, which can be either literal or metaphorical. These incel groups, if you look at them, are extremist groups. They have their beliefs and their dogma and their "bibles" even... it's not all that different to a religious extremism at all. Maybe it's partly because the "incel stuff" isn't a new thing for me at all, I've known about it and encountered these warped individuals online for years.

So I think all of what you say can be true, with it still being worth asking "why THIS person being targetted at THIS moment" when it seems a little too convenient for her to be targetted for other reasons. The hatred and the desire to hurt & destroy was all his, but did someone give him the means and point him in the right direction? It's worth considering.

The Jill Dando stuff is not a conspiracy theory by the way; the "unhinged stalker fan" who was jailed for her killing had the conviction removed and the police officially ruled it a professional assassination, years after the event. They just don't know by who, or why. But she was investigating paedophilia at the BBC long before the Saville scandal broke, so I'd say it's easy enough to draw a conclusion, even if it can't be proved.


...but asking that question...(...which atm is not been pondered by any officials or media so far as I know or can see...)...without taking a moments thought for her and that this may have devastated her life because she is a woman and no other reason...feels very dismissive and I can’t imagine an horrific incident even Remotely similar to this where we could have thought ...’this only happened because he was a man and his family was targeted by a woman filled with extreme hate and prejudice because of his gender...’....


....I’m aware of Jill Dando, her death has no bearing on this at all...

[user104658]

...but asking that question...(...which atm is not been pondered by any officials or media so far as I know or can see...)...without taking a moments thought for her and that this may have devastated her life because she is a woman and no other reason...feels very dismissive and I can’t imagine an horrific incident even Remotely similar to this where we could have thought ...’this only happened because he was a man and his family was targeted by a woman filled with extreme hate and prejudice because of his gender...’....

While I understand why that would be an upsetting thought... I don't really understand the logic that we can't do both at the same time. Like I said, maybe it is because a lot of this online male anger / incel stuff is a newer revelation and still shocking for that reason? Of course it should ALWAYS be shocking, but sadly a lot of people have been very aware of the incel/redpill/MGTOW/MRA stuff for many years now.

[Marsh.]

Just when I thought the Governor plot in HTGAWM was a little far fetched. :worry:

[Ammi]

...it really does feel like It’s hate motivated because of his extreme prejudices and that he was particularly fixated on Esther Salas...

Roy Den Hollander, the self-described “anti-feminist” attorney who authorities say is the chief suspect in the shootings of the son and the husband of a federal judge in New Jersey, attacked that judge by name in misogynistic, racist writings he wrote over a period of years and posted in bulk on the Internet Archive. Den Hollander, who describes himself as a Trump volunteer in his writings, called the judge an “affirmative action” case who affiliated with those who wanted “to convince America that whites, especially white males, were barbarians, and all those of a darker skin complexion were victims.”

Along with the attacks on Salas, Den Hollander’s writings also go after President Barack Obama (who he said has an “obsession to turn America into a banana republic”), Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor (who he claimed was “angry that nobody had invited her to her high school senior prom”), Hillary Clinton (whose supporters were “teary-eyed, sad-sack, PC loonies watching their power of intolerance go down the drain”), and an Obama appointee (whom he describes as part of “that Orwellian party of feminists, ethnics, Muslims, illegals and queers who think they are superior to everyone else, especially white males.”)

[Niamh.]

...it really does feel like It’s hate motivated because of his extreme prejudices and that he was particularly fixated on Esther Salas...

Roy Den Hollander, the self-described “anti-feminist” attorney who authorities say is the chief suspect in the shootings of the son and the husband of a federal judge in New Jersey, attacked that judge by name in misogynistic, racist writings he wrote over a period of years and posted in bulk on the Internet Archive. Den Hollander, who describes himself as a Trump volunteer in his writings, called the judge an “affirmative action” case who affiliated with those who wanted “to convince America that whites, especially white males, were barbarians, and all those of a darker skin complexion were victims.”

Along with the attacks on Salas, Den Hollander’s writings also go after President Barack Obama (who he said has an “obsession to turn America into a banana republic”), Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor (who he claimed was “angry that nobody had invited her to her high school senior prom”), Hillary Clinton (whose supporters were “teary-eyed, sad-sack, PC loonies watching their power of intolerance go down the drain”), and an Obama appointee (whom he describes as part of “that Orwellian party of feminists, ethnics, Muslims, illegals and queers who think they are superior to everyone else, especially white males.”)

That's a lot of hate

[Marsh.]

That's a lot of hate

Really? You should see what she types on my wall. :(

[Niamh.]

Really? You should see what she types on my wall. :(

:laugh2:

[Ammi]

That's a lot of hate

...i just can’t imagine what it would be like to lose a child and in such a purposefully violent way...but that she may have lost him because someone hated her enough for no other reason than her gender and that she’s Hispanic...is just beyond any words, it’s too, too sad for her and her family...

[Ammi]

Really? You should see what she types on my wall. :(

...:laugh:...and that’s restraining myself as well because of forum rules...



...:love:..

[Ammi]

...another murder on 11 July is being investigated as a link to this one... men’s rights lawyer Marc Angelucci was also shot and killed at his home...it’s being reported that Den Hollander was enraged he was not co-counsel in a lawsuit Angelucci had filed against the Selective Service System and so they are looking at whether he carried our that ‘assassination’ as well...Den Hollander had apparently recently been diagnosed with a terminal cancer and the direction the police seem to be looking at is that he may have been ‘settling scores’ with ‘hate focuses’ because of the two very similar murders so close in time as well...

[Ammi]

...a man filled with such extreme hate...