Durham freshers expelled over ‘lads’ group discussing having sex with ‘poorest girl’.

[Ammi]

A Durham University fresher who was member of a “lads” Whatsapp group where students discussed competing to have sex with the poorest girl has been expelled.

The student, who was due to start at the university next month, has had his place withdrawn following an investigation into the “utterly abhorrent” remarks.

An inquiry was launched after it emerged that prospective freshers allegedly planned to hold a competition to have sex with the poorest student they could find.

Screenshots from various online conversations, thought to involve teenagers who are due to start their studies this month, were shared on the Overheard at Durham Uni Facebook page.

One commented to the group: "Have I told you about the posh lads competing on ********** the poorest girl."

Another wrote George Floyd, the black man who died during his arrest by white police officers in the US, "had it coming".

In one of the conversations, freshers allegedly boasted that they will “shag a different girl every night”.

Some of the contents of the conversation were published online, which showed incoming students appearing to discuss how they intend to sniff the drug ketamine “off the first girl’s t**s that is keen”.

Following the university's investigation which involved a lawyer and an ex-police officer, one student has had his place at Durham withdrawn.

Jeremy Cook, a pro-vice-chancellor at the university, said: "Recently Durham University was made aware of some utterly abhorrent comments on social media purported to have been posted by Durham students.

"As we said at the time, we condemn the content and behaviour demonstrated in these social media posts, which is entirely unacceptable and violates the values and behaviours that we uphold as a University community."

He added: "As a result of this investigation, which was conducted under the University's Admissions Policy, one male who was due to begin studying at Durham University next month has, in accordance with the terms of their offer, had their offer withdrawn.

"This was due to his behaviour falling short of the values we uphold, as reflected in our regulations."

Mr Cook said two others were found not to have broken the rules and can start their studies, while others were investigated and were found not to have any association with the university.

The investigation also uncovered evidence of individuals “seemingly acting under pseudonyms, falsely claiming to be Durham University students and instigating social media conversations in order to fraudulently sell tickets for non-existent student events, including during Induction Week”.

Mr Cook said they reported their findings to the police, and that investigations were continuing into other comments.

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/durham-fresher-expelled-over-lads-170623994.html

[Liam-]

Why are posh, rich people always the sleaziest

[Cherie]

Not sure that was the right decision, if I look back at my 18 year old self I said and did a lot of things I wouldn't be that proud of today, because that is what growing up and maturing involves, making mistakes and learning. An official reprimand with him being removed if there was a repeat would be enough I think.

People need to learn fast today that what they post online or even in private groups even if it just to impress their mates, etc can come back to bite them on the bum even years later

[bots]

it's the environment where so much comedy originates, people really need to stop taking what others say so seriously

[DouglasS]

Not sure that was the right decision, if I look back at my 18 year old self I said and did a lot of things I wouldn't be that proud of today, because that is what growing up and maturing involves, making mistakes and learning. An official reprimand with him being removed if there was a repeat would be enough I think.

People need to learn fast today that what they post online or even in private groups even if it just to impress their mates, etc can come back to bite them on the bum even years later

He was probably just trying to impress friends and seem a lad, he likely didn’t even mean any of the things he said and in terms was harmless. Lads WhatsApp chats are brutal at that age, often no harm Is intended and it’s more of a shock value.

People often say things without Thinking/meaning it all the time And always have done , but with social media And messages now it is saved forever and can sadly be used against people.

I agree it seems harsh and isn’t given him the chance to grow up. Yes he should be punished and yes he should receive a final warning, but expellation seems harsh

[Niamh.]

I can see both sides I suppose, I understand the point Cherie is making however rape in university settings is a problem and talking about women in this way is really unacceptable and encourages that culture of treating women like objects which can lead to sexual assaults/rapes.

[thesheriff443]

He must of said something particularly nasty to get the boot.

[Cherie]

He was probably just trying to impress friends and seem a lad, he likely didn’t even mean any of the things he said and in terms was harmless. Lads WhatsApp chats are brutal at that age, often no harm Is intended and it’s more of a shock value.

People often say things without Thinking/meaning it all the time And always have done , but with social media And messages now it is saved forever and can sadly be used against people.

I agree it seems harsh and isn’t given him the chance to grow up. Yes he should be punished and yes he should receive a final warning, but expellation seems harsh

yeah I find it crazy, talking about shagging and drinking is just normal stuff at that age, he would have been in a new group with people he didn't know, tough lesson for him, the whole group have probably never had any action and would need to lie down after half a shandy, also you wonder on the impact on the snitch and whether they will have any ongoing guilt about it. if he was talking about shooting up a halls or something it would be a different story

[UserSince2005]

Appalling, its like the **** the piggy game

[Cherie]

Pretty sure there was a very similar story last year?

[Liam-]

Losing his place at university is literally the perfect opportunity for him to learn his lesson and grow up

[Scarlett.]

Not sure that was the right decision, if I look back at my 18 year old self I said and did a lot of things I wouldn't be that proud of today, because that is what growing up and maturing involves, making mistakes and learning. An official reprimand with him being removed if there was a repeat would be enough I think.

People need to learn fast today that what they post online or even in private groups even if it just to impress their mates, etc can come back to bite them on the bum even years later

Hmm, I dunno, while sometimes you can write stuff off as 'edgy banter', stuff like this feels very exploitative and targetted, and just overall, pretty damn creepy. I think excusing behaviour like this as 'boys will be boys' can be dangerous.

[Niamh.]

Hmm, I dunno, while sometimes you can write stuff off as 'edgy banter', stuff like this feels very exploitative and targetted, and just overall, pretty damn creepy. I think excusing behaviour like this as 'boys will be boys' can be dangerous.

Exactly. It reinforces that misogynistic culture that normalises objectifying women. It's the same type ****e that excuses Trumps "grab them by the pussy" line as "locker room banter".

[Cherie]

Hmm, I dunno, while sometimes you can write stuff off as 'edgy banter', stuff like this feels very exploitative and targetted, and just overall, pretty damn creepy. I think excusing behaviour like this as 'boys will be boys' can be dangerous.

if they were 28 I would say yes, at 18 and wet behind the ears no

[Cherie]

Exactly. It reinforces that misogynistic culture that normalises objectifying women. It's the same type ****e that excuses Trumps "grab them by the pussy" line as "locker room banter".

You don't think alot of young women don't do exactly the same thing when they get together :shrug:

his crime was naievty and trusting a group he had just met.

anyway I am sure we had a very similar story last year, its a bit like the Giant Ants are coming to the UK at this stage

[user104658]

Hmmm I can sort of see both sides in that they hadn't even started University yet and it was, most likely, just "Billy Big Bollocks" chat and most of them wouldn't "shag a different girl" per YEAR at Uni let alone every night. It's sometimes hard to remember that people just starting Uni are teenagers and are dumb as ****. I know I know "they are 18 and so they are adults blah blah blah" but no, sorry, freshers are kids.

That's not to make light of it either - there should have been significant repercussions... there IS a huge problem with this stuff in Universities and (frankly)this has only gone this far because someone reported it. It happens constantly in every University and needs to be tackled. Most of it is all mouth but that's not really the point.

He must of said something particularly nasty to get the boot.

I agree with that though - sounds like it was a fairly large group with multiple people making these "jokes" and only one of them lost their place... which suggests that that particular individual took it further than the others. My guess would be some sort of suggestion of using force/"not asking for consent" which even as a "joke" would likely have been good reason to withdraw the offer.

[Niamh.]

You don't think alot of young women don't do exactly the same thing when they get together :shrug:

his crime was naievty and trusting a group he had just met.

anyway I am sure we had a very similar story last year, its a bit like the Giant Ants are coming to the UK at this stage

I wouldn't think so no? You think girls organise competitions to bang the poorest guy or sniff ketamine off the nearest willing ball bag they can find? :laugh:

I get what you mean about us all being a bit idiotic at that age however rape and sexual assaults within the university setting are a problem so this kind of stuff has to be taken seriously. Maybe it could have been dealt with in a better way than just expelling the guy (unless there is more to the story that is) by educating the group or whatever but it needed dealing with

PS I don't get the Giant Ant reference :laugh:

[user104658]

if they were 28 I would say yes, at 18 and wet behind the ears no

Again I agree, it's not even about "excusing it", you can point out that their "edgy banter" is immature and shameful and make it very clear that it won't be tolerated. I do think at that age they should get a strong warning before anything else though. Who wasn't coming out with some utterly ludicrous **** at 18.

[Liam-]

if they were 28 I would say yes, at 18 and wet behind the ears no

Then we should do everything we can to stop these young people from growing older still believing that way is right, no?

[Cherie]

I wouldn't think so no? You think girls organise competitions to bang the poorest guy or sniff ketamine of the nearest willing ball bag they can find? :laugh:

I get what you mean about us all being a bit idiotic at that age however rape and sexual assaults within the university setting are a problem so this kind of stuff has to be taken seriously. Maybe it could have been dealt with in a better way than just expelling the guy (unless there is more to the story that is) by educating the group or whatever but it need dealing with

PS I don't get the Giant Ant reference :laugh:

Every year there is a newspaper report of giant ants heading to the UK at some point

this feels a bit like that

anyway I think girls can be just as gruesome when they get into a gang

[Cherie]

Then we shout do everything we can to stop these young people from growing older still believing that way is right, no?

moving out, looking after yourself and life lessons do that? sitting on your arse at home does nothing for most people

[user104658]

Then we should do everything we can to stop these young people from growing older still believing that way is right, no?

That involves conversations and education though, not just "ban this filth" mentality.

Though again I think there must be more to this story if just one of them lost his place - as I doubt it was just him making the "jokes". Would be reasonable to assume he took it to a level beyond that.

[Cherie]

Again I agree, it's not even about "excusing it", you can point out that their "edgy banter" is immature and shameful and make it very clear that it won't be tolerated. I do think at that age they should get a strong warning before anything else though. Who wasn't coming out with some utterly ludicrous **** at 18.

Many on TiBB apparently :laugh: came out of the womb mental age of 30

[Liam-]

moving out, looking after yourself and life lessons do that? sitting on your arse at home does nothing for most people

I doubt living in halls was going to teach him not to treat women like disposable objects or treat people less well off with respect

[Liam-]

Also, people can be sensible at 18, people’s behaviour and their attitudes can’t always just be put down to their age, it’s such a cop out, maybe he’s just a sexist, classist pig? Not all teenagers are like that, most teenagers get drunk and steal traffic cones, not conspire to seduce girls and humiliate them based on their lack of wealth and class privilege

[user104658]

anyway I think girls can be just as gruesome when they get into a gang

I think it's generally far less common and far FAR less likely to progress past "just talk" ... though I have known a few, err, "characters" in my time who were to be frank just wild to a bewlindering extent.

You also can't ignore that there simply are different implications in level of threat. A housemate of mine had a girl who became utterly obsessed with him at Uni, progressed to her contacting him quite relentlessly, and at the peak, her turning up at our house at 2am banging on his window (he was ground floor) demanding to be let in. He wasn't even there :worry:. But yeah she was a tiny 20 year old girl and it was just a really quite sad situation, we called her friends to come get her. But if you flip that situation... and there's a guy harassing a girl... and he turns up banging the windows of an all-girls house at 2am... that IS a very different situation and I think trying to make the two the same creates a bit of a false equivalency. Realistically, males are not at any particular REAL physical risk from a group of drunk 18 year old girls. Females are (evidently) often at very real risk from groups of drunk young men.

[user104658]

not conspire to seduce girls and humiliate them based on their lack of wealth and class privilege

:shrug: I think that's the thing though, it depends if it was a real plan or a bunch of knob-heads trying to "shock humour" each other. I personally wasn't like that in my late teens / early 20's, but I knew plenty of people who were saying that sort of stuff and it wasn't in a million years with the intention of actually doing it. They just thought they were being funny. They weren't, but they thought they were. Also I'd say that, yes, by the end of University most of them HAD grown up without a lot of prompting. University is just like that to be honest. You feel so grown up starting, then you get to the end of your final year and see the new freshers coming in and it's abundantly obvious that they're just kids.

[Ammi]

...the thing is, when we talk about bathroom spaces and safety for females etc...we talk about females feeling their safety possibly threatened because males are the physically stronger...so something of that vein, written by males as it was...wouldn’t really equate exactly to a female fresher having written it...but she didn’t, though....we don’t really hear many stories of an equal thing but reversed to females have it said...it should be taken very seriously because it would have a threatening feeling to a female student...

[Kizzy]

I hate all this 18yr olds are kids stuff... if you are intelligent enough to go to uni you are intelligent enough to know that talking like this is wrong.

Nobody is suggesting that you are fully rounded at 18 and you won't make mistakes, be irrational or even sensible, but this is really base. . I would be devastated as a parent if my son thought in this way I wouldn't suggest that his age prompted those comments.
They are driven less by libedo and more by privilege, it was totally right for the university to expect better from their students.

[Niamh.]

I suppose if you wanted to look for examples of this kind of banter spilling over into real life you only have to look at that case in NI involving those Rugby players

[bots]

it's the equivalent of trumps famous "locker room banter" really, it's always going to offend some while others don't care

[Ammi]

I suppose if you wanted to look for examples of this kind of banter spilling over into real life you only have to look at that case in NI involving those Rugby players

...that’s exactly the case I was thinking about earlier, actually...it’s something that sadly can become a ‘mindset’ and then lead and lead...the ‘impress mates’ or follow the words and actions of a group can be something that’s continued...and it wouldn’t be something that a uni would want to be attached to...if anything had happened and they’d known.../...seen what was said and then actions followed ...

[Beso]

Rats.

[thesheriff443]

I think they are probably mature but it’s just lads being lads. But young people are exposed to so much sexual stuff these days and most of it is not censored it’s easy for people to see sex as anything goes.

[caprimint]

Removing him??? Waaaaay an overreaction. People should be allowed to say whatever they want in private. He didn't make any threats, sure there might have been some gross comments in there but they took it too far... it's literally letters on a screen

[user104658]

I hate all this 18yr olds are kids stuff... if you are intelligent enough to go to uni you are intelligent enough to know that talking like this is wrong.

Nobody is suggesting that you are fully rounded at 18 and you won't make mistakes, be irrational or even sensible, but this is really base. . I would be devastated as a parent if my son thought in this way I wouldn't suggest that his age prompted those comments.
They are driven less by libedo and more by privilege, it was totally right for the university to expect better from their students.18 year olds are kids. Again it's not about making excuses, but I think we"re treading dangerous ground if we're not willing to give people that age a chance to learn and change. If they're showing no indication of having a desire to or being able to do that, that's another matter.

[Kizzy]

it's the equivalent of trumps famous "locker room banter" really, it's always going to offend some while others don't care

Yes, great example 'locker room' banter breeds men like Trump that suggest it's OK to 'grab women by the pussy' and are accused of rape.. just like Trump.

[user104658]

Removing him??? Waaaaay an overreaction. People should be allowed to say whatever they want in private. He didn't make any threats, sure there might have been some gross comments in there but they took it too far... it's literally letters on a screenWeeeell we don't know that there weren't any threats. Given that there were a few of them doing it and only one had his place removed, I think it's a safe-ish bet that that one did wander into the territory of actual threats/talk of force.

I also don't think having an offer of a place taken away is as severe as being removed from a course that has started. From what I can tell these guys haven't even started at the University yet so it's not like they've invested their time in a course there yet, and any tuition fees etc will be refunded if the course hasn't started.

[Ammi]

...o mean, we’re discussing it obviously because that’s what we do, a section like this would be pointless if we didn’t...but we don't know what the screenshots said that the uni based their decision on...and because he hadn’t started yet, they had nothing to balance his character on in terms of time spent there as a student...

[Kizzy]

18 year olds are kids. Again it's not about making excuses, but I think we"re treading dangerous ground if we're not willing to give people that age a chance to learn and change. If they're showing no indication of having a desire to or being able to do that, that's another matter.

No they are not. They are legally adults, is counterproductive to infantilise students. Personally I think we're treading a more dangerous ground it we don't highlight clearly enough that views such as those expressed in those conversations are unacceptable.

There is no grey area, if you can't see that at 18 being old enough to work, study and live independently you don't belong in a university setting.

[user104658]

...o mean, we’re discussing it obviously because that’s what we do, a section like this would be pointless if we didn’t...but we don't know what the screenshots said that the uni based their decision on...and because he hadn’t started yet, they had nothing to balance his character on in terms of time spent there as a student...I think that's the crux of it really, saying "We no longer want you to come here" is very different to being expelled, which would be a much longer disciplinary process with various checks and balances. Legally they would have to have good reason to expel. It's just the same as with employment really; if someone hasn't started a new job yet, the employer can withdraw the offer. If they're already in employment, firing them isn't a simple process.

A few people were removed from my wife's course during her time there, for reasons far worse than this :umm2: and even then its a process that takes 3+ months.

[Cherie]

Dont unis do that ‘talk’ for freshers about respect or was that one off? Uni are about about making money now, it was easier to offload him than to educate him

[user104658]

No they are not. They are legally adults, is counterproductive to infantilise students. Personally I think we're treading a more dangerous ground it we don't highlight clearly enough that views such as those expressed in those conversations are unacceptable.



There is no grey area, if you can't see that at 18 being old enough to work, study and live independently you don't belong in a university setting.

Of course there's a "grey area", the idea that there's a switch that gets flipped on a certain date that turns a child into an adult is illogical and ridiculous. "Happy 18th Birthday, you're an adult now!!" is the dangerous ground.

[Marsh.]

it's the equivalent of trumps famous "locker room banter" really, it's always going to offend some while others don't care

Trump's was less locker room banter and more rape talk.

[Crimson Dynamo]

how would they be able to tell who was the poorest girl without detailed financial history?

[Ammi]

I think that's the crux of it really, saying "We no longer want you to come here" is very different to being expelled, which would be a much longer disciplinary process with various checks and balances. Legally they would have to have good reason to expel. It's just the same as with employment really; if someone hasn't started a new job yet, the employer can withdraw the offer. If they're already in employment, firing them isn't a simple process.

A few people were removed from my wife's course during her time there, for reasons far worse than this :umm2: and even then its a process that takes 3+ months.

...I know Durham Uni, it was my ‘local’ as a child growing up...it’s an excellent uni, one of the top ones globally...and it’s quite a privilege to get a place...you really wouldn’t want to risk ‘messing it up’ if you had...

[thesheriff443]

how would they be able to tell who was the poorest girl without detailed financial history?

The one wearing news paper knickers I guess

[Cherie]

how would they be able to tell who was the poorest girl without detailed financial history?

I know right, what was the criteria, just show immaturity

[Cherie]

I doubt living in halls was going to teach him not to treat women like disposable objects or treat people less well off with respect

Of course it could if he came against someone who is willing to challenge his views, halls have a mixture of age groups and genders

[Marsh.]

how would they be able to tell who was the poorest girl without detailed financial history?

Not the posh boys thinking the poor would come in covered in soot and wearing rags.

[Marsh.]

Or was their chat up line "What brings you to a place like this? Government grant or Daddy's savings?"

[Kizzy]

Dont unis do that ‘talk’ for freshers about respect or was that one off? Uni are about about making money now, it was easier to offload him than to educate him

? Unis are places of education they have a duty of care to all students. If you fall short of the admission policy then you have your offer revoked and givenue to someone else. Simple as. Once you get in you are reminded of the codes if conduct and the repercussions if you fall short.
It isn't a universities obligation to instil respect into prospective students.

[Cherie]

Not the posh boys thinking the poor would come in covered in soot and wearing rags.

:joker:

[Cherie]

? Unis are places of education they have a duty of care to all students. If you fall short of the admission policy then you have your offer revoked and givenue to someone else. Simple as. Once you get in you are reminded of the codes if conduct and the repercussions if you fall short.
It isn't a universities obligation to instil respect into prospective students.

So there is no pastoral care offered in uni?

[Kizzy]

Of course there's a "grey area", the idea that there's a switch that gets flipped on a certain date that turns a child into an adult is illogical and ridiculous. "Happy 18th Birthday, you're an adult now!!" is the dangerous ground.

You are misunderstanding my point. There is no grey area where this talk is acceptable in anyone...of any age.

That is why I feel the uni was right to withold admission.

As I've said before your window of cognitive competence is a tad narrow imo. And is limited to people around your age it seems...

[Marsh.]

So there is no pastoral care offered in uni?

I don't think uni applicants get to use that. Only students.

[Kizzy]

So there is no pastoral care offered in uni?

For students yes... This guy fell short of the accepted standards of the university prior to enrollment.

[Cherie]

I don't think uni applicants get to use that. Only students.

He would have been a student if they didn’t withdraw his place, he might have benefitted from some counselling to increase his emotional maturity

[Cherie]

For students yes... This guy fell short of the accepted standards of the university prior to enrollment.

And thats my point, it was easier to offload him, cant be wasting any of that 9k fee on him ...its all about bums on seats

[Kizzy]

He would have been a student if they didn’t withdraw his place, he might have benefitted from some counselling to increase his emotional maturity

Why would they feel they have to do that?...They have made him aware he needs to work on his attitude and self awareness that's a good life lesson...for free.

[Kizzy]

And thats my point, it was easier to offload him, cant be wasting any of that 9k fee on him ...its all about bums on seats

It isn't it's just policy..all institutions have those.
If you apply for a job and they find you're some sexist online you may have your offer revoked...They don't give you the job but immediately refer you to HR for a disciplinary.

[bots]

when I went to uni it was fun .... changed days

[Tom4784]

Rape culture is a problem in universities and attitudes like this are often the beginning, they see women as less than and they treat them as such because they think they are entitled to. Even if it doesn't lead to rape, it's still gonna cause massive damage to the victims of this game's self esteem, confidence and potentially cause mental health issues during a time of great change and uncertainty that isn't exactly helped by the climate of the world atm.

It was the right decision.

[Oliver_W]

Expelling someone over that is going a bit far. Of course "lads" are going to "banter", and what's more it's fresher culture to pork an uggo, povvo, or fatties.

[Niamh.]

Expelling someone over that is going a bit far. Of course "lads" are going to "banter", and what's more it's fresher culture to pork an uggo, povvo, or fatties.

grim

[Liam-]

Expelling someone over that is going a bit far. Of course "lads" are going to "banter", and what's more it's fresher culture to pork an uggo, povvo, or fatties.

:umm2:

Revolting

[Swan]

I've known plenty of people like that, they're tossers and they never change. I have no sympathy whatsoever. And trust me, he'll be fine in life. Mummy and Daddy will come to the rescue.

[Oliver_W]

:umm2:

Revolting

grim

Ikr, why would they ot go for the hottest :dance:

[Niamh.]

Ikr, why would they ot go for the hottest :dance:

I don't know why you think it's hilarious, we're talking about actual human beings here

[Tom4784]

Expelling someone over that is going a bit far. Of course "lads" are going to "banter", and what's more it's fresher culture to pork an uggo, povvo, or fatties.

You really have a problem with women, don't you?

[Liam-]

I don't know why you think it's hilarious, we're talking about actual human beings here

He’s trying his hardest to be the resident edgelord

[user104658]

You are misunderstanding my point. There is no grey area where this talk is acceptable in anyone...of any age. It's a good thing I didn't at any point say it's acceptable then, isn't it?

As I've said before your window of cognitive competence is a tad narrow imo. And is limited to people around your age it seems...

Nothing to do with cognitive competence, it's about maturity and naivity, which we have to excuse in the young to some extent or we're going down a very dodgy path. Young people talk out of their arses, they try to be edgy, they think it's funny, they encourage each other... I think it's really scraping the sociological barrel to start tarring people for life at 18 "because they were adults who should have known better".

Again I haven't even said it was the wrong decision; they removed the offer from ONE of a group of people who were all involved in these conversations, which suggests that the one who was denied entry "took it to another level" in some way that hasn't been specified. They HAVEN'T removed the offers of all of the people involved, so that suggests that the University understands that it's possible for them to redeem themselves.

Expelling someone over that is going a bit far. Of course "lads" are going to "banter", and what's more it's fresher culture to pork an uggo, povvo, or fatties.

grim

:umm2:

Revolting

Ikr, why would they ot go for the hottest :dance:

I don't know why you think it's hilarious, we're talking about actual human beings here

He’s trying his hardest to be the resident edgelord

See here we have a prime example - we could just ban Oliver for his nonsense but we don't, we accept that he's just doing "immature internet stuff" and let him know that it isn't funny or edgy and gradually he does it less and less. If we banned him he'd be off in a 4chan echo chambre getting a tonne of positive reinforcement for comments like this. We all know that he'll turn out alright in the end so we keep him around.

[Marsh.]

Expelling someone over that is going a bit far. Of course "lads" are going to "banter", and what's more it's fresher culture to pork an uggo, povvo, or fatties.

Oh well if its "culture". :rolleyes:

[Crimson Dynamo]

WOuld it not be fair however for those that decided to expel the boy for them to allow their social media posts to be published so that students can make sure that they are not posting vulgar things too?

[user104658]

WOuld it not be fair however for those that decided to expel the boy for them to allow their social media posts to be published so that students can make sure that they are not posting vulgar things too?

It wasn't social media posts it was WhatsApp messages (which means someone within the group, or someone with access to one of their phones, shared it with the Uni). They can't reveal things that weren't originally posted publicly I imagine, but they probably should outline the reason, again given that not all involved faced the same punishment, so there should be more clarity on what constituted "crossing the line".

[Crimson Dynamo]

It wasn't social media posts it was WhatsApp messages (which means someone within the group, or someone with access to one of their phones, shared it with the Uni). They can't reveal things that weren't originally posted publicly I imagine, but they probably should outline the reason, again given that not all involved faced the same punishment, so there should be more clarity on what constituted "crossing the line".

i meant things like whatsapp and messenger

all the things the average person would be horrified if publically shown (and i dont think this should have led to punishment as it was private - or is there some small print in whatsapp that says it isnt?)

[Ammi]

"As a result of this investigation, which was conducted under the University's Admissions Policy, one male who was due to begin studying at Durham University next month has, in accordance with the terms of their offer, had their offer withdrawn.



...I would presume that all who would have been given places, would have been given a copy of the Admissions Policy or linked to where to find../..read it on their website...(...and any other relevant policies and student/uni agreements....)...

[bots]

there was also stuff related to fraudulent activities that included people who were not students and details have been passed to the police, so it's more than just banter

[user104658]

i meant things like whatsapp and messenger

all the things the average person would be horrified if publically shown (and i dont think this should have led to punishment as it was private - or is there some small print in whatsapp that says it isnt?)

There's no guarantee of privacy with a messaging app - you send a message to someone, they can show it to others - it's not like WhatsApp themselves forwarded the messages to the Uni. Most likely scenario is that one of the people in the group was uncomfortable with the stuff being said and showed it to someone. The Uni can then act on the content of the messages - but they can't make the messages themselves public.

[user104658]

there was also stuff related to fraudulent activities that included people who were not students and details have been passed to the police, so it's more than just banter

Uni T&C's usually include clauses of not being involved in any criminal activity, so that is most likely the reason the offer was withdrawn.

[Oliver_W]

See here we have a prime example - we could just ban Oliver for his nonsense but we don't, we accept that he's just doing "immature internet stuff" and let him know that it isn't funny or edgy and gradually he does it less and less. If we banned him he'd be off in a 4chan echo chambre getting a tonne of positive reinforcement for comments like this. We all know that he'll turn out alright in the end so we keep him around.

:joker:

To be fair I've been a good boy for absolutely ages! (Angelface) and I'd never go to 4chan!!

But while I said it in a bad way, lad culture is like that tbh. But to liken it to rape culture is a bit barmy, campuses aren't a caliphate or Hollywood...

[user104658]

But while I said it in a bad way, lad culture is like that tbh. But to liken it to rape culture is a bit barmy, campuses aren't a caliphate or Hollywood...

Lad culture is like that but that doesn't mean it isn't toxic; I was never particularly "laddish" myself but I did certainly know people that fell firmly in that category. One of my housemates had friends from his course who were definitely "laddish" and I couldn't ****ing stand them. But again they were all talk, yukking it up about "finding a fat girl to play rodeo with" and "**** a fresher week" but - like I said earlier - in reality I'd be surprised if they hooked up with one girl for each YEAR they were students, let alone "a new girl every night".

BUT - and it is a big "but" - the rhetoric isn't harmless either and the objectification and "jokes" do, on occasion, end up leading to more serious things (like harrassment, unwanted sexual advances, sexual assault). It doesn't usually or even often but it can, and that's a good enough reason to call it out. There's a similar thing on online forums whereangry blokes are sharing stories of "following women home", "deliberately trying to make women uncomfortable" and getting off on it etc... the VAST majority of the stories are pure fantasy, but there will nonetheless be the small number who "take inspiration" and actually do something.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I ripped off 10 car aerials and planted then in my garden in my fresher week

disgusting thing to do and i regret it but i was lashed and showing off

https://cdn.dealeraccelerate.com/rkm/1/3100/204961/1920x1440/w/1964-chevrolet-impala-ss

I also pissed on the 18th green at St Andrews, broke someones nose in the union who said Jack Nicholas was a fat yank amongst a whole load of criminal stuff that year that inevitably ended in the courts much to my parents shame and it fecked up jobs going forward.

And tbh i was a quiet wee boy at the time who never spoke to a girl in my whole first year

now i am a pillar of the community so i hope that lad learns his lessson, i did

(I have told the tale that on my way to court i fell asleep in the car and my dad stopped in a laybye and knocked 7 bells of sh1te of me as it was serious and he thought i was taking the p1ss. great to arrive in court looking like i had gone 4 rounds with Tyson)

[Kizzy]

It's a good thing I didn't at any point say it's acceptable then, isn't it?



Nothing to do with cognitive competence, it's about maturity and naivity, which we have to excuse in the young to some extent or we're going down a very dodgy path. Young people talk out of their arses, they try to be edgy, they think it's funny, they encourage each other... I think it's really scraping the sociological barrel to start tarring people for life at 18 "because they were adults who should have known better".

Again I haven't even said it was the wrong decision; they removed the offer from ONE of a group of people who were all involved in these conversations, which suggests that the one who was denied entry "took it to another level" in some way that hasn't been specified. They HAVEN'T removed the offers of all of the people involved, so that suggests that the University understands that it's possible for them to redeem themselves.













See here we have a prime example - we could just ban Oliver for his nonsense but we don't, we accept that he's just doing "immature internet stuff" and let him know that it isn't funny or edgy and gradually he does it less and less. If we banned him he'd be off in a 4chan echo chambre getting a tonne of positive reinforcement for comments like this. We all know that he'll turn out alright in the end so we keep him around.

I'm not here to evaluate forum members....

It has everything to do with cognative competence, self regulation is a key part of that and by 18 to suggest a person has not had to use and hone that skill is ridiculous.

We can excuse some things yes, but not absolve blame for situations that have repercussions in the real world.. no. Which is what happened here. The guy broke the rules for acceptance and therefore must accept that is the reason he must forfeit his place. That is also am integral part of becoming a fully functional adult, accepting that your actions have consequences.
He will apply to another uni or defer he will hopefully take something from the experience, learn and grow from it.

[Marsh.]

I do agree expecting an 18 year old to be a 100% fully matured and responsible and self controllable adult just because they're 18 is naive.

Nobody is an adult overnight.

[Kizzy]

I do agree expecting an 18 year old to be a 100% fully matured and responsible and self controllable adult just because they're 18 is naive.

Nobody is an adult overnight.

Who said they were?...

[Amy Jade]

You don't think alot of young women don't do exactly the same thing when they get together :shrug:


I've literally never been in a group chat with my girl friends only and discussed having sex with a guy based on his wealth :shrug:

[user104658]

I've literally never been in a group chat with my girl friends only and discussed having sex with a guy based on his wealth :shrug:You're a classy Broad though Amy... Cherie was rough as old bollocks when she was a lass.

[Kizzy]

when I went to uni it was fun .... changed days

It's still fun unless you call the things they were discussing fun? and then yes, things are changing..luckily.

[Amy Jade]

You're a classy Broad though Amy... Cherie was rough as old bollocks when she was a lass.

https://media.tenor.com/images/df5e7fd4fb890060a1cc3b4b2f3c3c0e/tenor.gif

[bots]

everyone is getting all in a lather and the probability is that he was expelled for something other than the banter, it's much more likely it was because a group were trying to sell tickets fraudulently for non existent student events

[Ammi]

...possibly, bots...but I tend to think not, though...mainly because ...(...although that seems to have happened as well with the tickets, I think that a few things were found in the investigations that wouldn’t necessarily be related...)...but mainly because, all of the media that are reporting the story.../...which is basically most of them...are all reporting the same thing as the reason... and if it wasn’t the reason then it would be completely fake news, when it would appear that the university have confirmed the reason to be about the content of the ‘chat’ regarding their female students...the tickets wouldn’t be a one sentence, obscure thing if it were the reason..?...I don’t feel anyway...and it looks as though these investigations and findings of, in terms of media reporting..?..go back quite a few weeks so plenty of time to have corrected and put right, if it wasn’t the main thing as well...

...anyways, just reading little bits from different media articles earlier...only skim reading, type thing...?...obviously lots of chat went on within the group...and some of it seemed to touch on rape../...actually mentioned rape in the context of things could lead to charges of rape in discussing the things they were and the way they were discussing and if they were actually ‘carried out’...thats ‘lads banter’...no, it absolutely isn’t...so we don’t have the whole chat, obviously...but ‘the picture’ seems to be widening in terms of why the decision as it was...

[Cherie]

I've literally never been in a group chat with my girl friends only and discussed having sex with a guy based on his wealth :shrug:

It’s not something that regularly happens on anyone’s WhatsApp groups but it’s a bit naive to say because it doesn’t happen on yours it doesn’t happen on anyone’s...I doubt it happen on many boys WhatsApp groups either tbh

[Cherie]

You're a classy Broad though Amy... Cherie was rough as old bollocks when she was a lass.

Don’t drag me down to your standards :fist:

[Kizzy]

everyone is getting all in a lather and the probability is that he was expelled for something other than the banter, it's much more likely it was because a group were trying to sell tickets fraudulently for non existent student events

You haven't read the article have you?