The Sun Newspaper has Won against Johnny Depp

[arista]

Live on SkyNewsHD


Johnny Depp loses 'wife beater' libel case against The Sun
over Amber Heard allegations
Pirates Of The Caribbean star Johnny Depp was unable to
convince the High Court
he was not violent towards ex-wife Amber Heard.]

https://news.sky.com/story/johnny-depp-loses-wife-beater-libel-case-against-the-sun-over-amber-heard-allegations-12081479


Its costed him Millions.

[user104658]

They were quite blatantly violent towards each other, if you listen to the tapes between them that much is really evident. Whether or not she introduced it into the relationship isn't really relevant in this sense, and also if you listen to the tapes it's hard to argue that she isn't abusive/has a SEVERELY warped perception of relationships, but yeah... while it seems like she encouraged it and he wanted it to stop... it's been fairly clear that the violence in the relationship at times went both ways to at least some extent.

That said, of course, I hate that tabloids peddle this stuff in the first place and I also hate that people will lap it up.

[arista]

They were quite blatantly violent towards each other, if you listen to the tapes between them that much is really evident. Whether or not she introduced it into the relationship isn't really relevant in this sense, and also if you listen to the tapes it's hard to argue that she isn't abusive/has a SEVERELY warped perception of relationships, but yeah... while it seems like she encouraged it and he wanted it to stop... it's been fairly clear that the violence in the relationship at times went both ways to at least some extent.

That said, of course, I hate that tabloids peddle this stuff in the first place and I also hate that people will lap it up.


Yes she gets off



Hollywood does not want a "Wife Beater"

[arista]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/11/02/10/35141752-0-image-m-8_1604311664985.jpg


[Johnny Depp, 57, has lost his long-running libel battle
with his ex-wife Amber Heard and The Sun newspaper
The star's reputation lies in tatters after
London's High Court found he did beat Heard during their marriage
Heard's legal team released a statement this morning
saying that they were 'not surprised' at the judgement
The Aquaman actress, 34, had tearfully told the
court of 14 occasions in which Depp had hit her since 2013
Depp sued The Sun over a 2018 article with
the headline: 'Gone Potty: How can JK Rowling be 'genuinely happy'
casting wife beater Johnny Deppin the new Fantastic Beasts film?'
He said the allegations had cost him his role as
Captain Jack Sparrow in the Pirates of the Caribbean films
The trial was told of Depp's incredible drinking and
cocaine binges, his lavish spending and jet set lifestyle
In his ruling, the judge dismissed Depp's claim saying
the publisher proved the article to be 'substantially true']


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8904659/Hollywood-star-loses-bitter-High-Court-libel-trial-against-Sun-ex-wife-Amber-Heard.html

[UserSince2005]

what a brut

[Liam-]

How does one prove that they don’t beat their wife? Surely it’s down to the accusers to supply the burden of proof? I feel sorry for him, Amber tried and succeeded in ruining his reputation while she gets off mainly free

[bots]

How does one prove that they don’t beat their wife? Surely it’s down to the accusers to supply the burden of proof? I feel sorry for him, Amber tried and succeeded in ruining his reputation while she gets off mainly free

the american libel system works completely the other way round, guess that was his mistake

[Amy Jade]

Both as bad as each other. Said it all along.

[Marsh.]

Yes she gets off

She? This isn't Heard's trial.

[Amy Jade]

She? This isn't Heard's trial.

She's been through a media trial for sure.

[Ammi]

...the judge has said that he finds 12 of the 14 allegations against Johnny Depp to be true ....and they’re pretty horrendous allegations, which would indicate somewhat of a monstrous character...

[arista]

She? This isn't Heard's trial.


Yes it was Just Depp foolish taking the Mighty
Sun on in a UK court.


He should not have taken the libel case

[utopianman]

depp is a good guy she is evil. she is the perpetrator in every argument and she has been far more violent too, the judge got this horribly wrong.

[arista]

depp is a good guy she is evil. she is the perpetrator in every argument and she has been far more violent too, the judge got this horribly wrong.


Except when he was taking Cocaine

[user104658]

Both as bad as each other. Said it all along.

I agree - the tap recordings of them have a part where he says something like "the violence has to stop" if they're to stay together and she responds "I can't promise that" - people quickly took that to mean that she's violent towards him and he's 100% victim, when the other evidence made it much more likely that they had a violent relationship on both sides, that it had become normalised as part of their fights, and that he had gotten to a place of wanting it to stop whilst she wasn't willing to commit to that. Like I said before, that's definitely down to a messed up perception of a normal relationship, but it definitely doesn't mean that there wasn't mutual violence before that point.

Basically I think they had a messed up relationship, he wanted a commitment to fixing that, she said she couldn't make any promises and they rightly separated. It would have been better for both of them if that had been the end of it tbh. Both were abusers, both were victims, and both have permanently damaged careers. What a mess.

[user104658]

depp is a good guy she is evil.

Fairy-tale stuff, that's very rarely an accurate interpretation of the real world.

she is the perpetrator in every argument and she has been far more violent too, the judge got this horribly wrong.

Her being "more violent" is irrelevant in this case; he was arguing that it was libel to say that he had been violent. If he was indeed violent - the claim is true and the reason doesn't matter. It becomes a bit of a playground "Well she hit me first!!" situation... it's not how adults should operate.

If your partner is hitting you, you leave them. You don't start hitting back and call it provoked.

[Ammi]

depp is a good guy she is evil. she is the perpetrator in every argument and she has been far more violent too, the judge got this horribly wrong.

...how would we know that Amber is the perpetrator of every argument, though...how can that have truth with so much we don’t know...

[Niamh.]

I agree - the tap recordings of them have a part where he says something like "the violence has to stop" if they're to stay together and she responds "I can't promise that" - people quickly took that to mean that she's violent towards him and he's 100% victim, when the other evidence made it much more likely that they had a violent relationship on both sides, that it had become normalised as part of their fights, and that he had gotten to a place of wanting it to stop whilst she wasn't willing to commit to that. Like I said before, that's definitely down to a messed up perception of a normal relationship, but it definitely doesn't mean that there wasn't mutual violence before that point.

Basically I think they had a messed up relationship, he wanted a commitment to fixing that, she said she couldn't make any promises and they rightly separated. It would have been better for both of them if that had been the end of it tbh. Both were abusers, both were victims, and both have permanently damaged careers. What a mess.

There was also the accusation towards Johnny that his relationship with Kate Moss may have had some domestic violence, I have no idea if there is any truth to that however his 2 other long term exes came forward to his defense where as Kate was very quiet..even after Amber alleged that he had pushed her down stairs during their relationship

It may be the case that Johnny reacts in certain ways to certain types of personalities, who knows but neither seem totally innocent to me

[bots]

the judge came to the conclusion that there was ample evidence that Depp did beat his wife, which is what the libel case was about. In that circumstance it doesn't matter if one was as bad as the other, "the Sun was telling the truth" :shocked:

[Ammi]

...Johnny Depp’s lawyer has just said that the decision will be appealed...

...I mean, because innocence is initially assumed so guilt has to be proved, as it were...to have ruled that 14 allegations of abuse were felt proven, it all must have surely been pretty damning for Johnny Depp...

[Amy Jade]

There was also the accusation towards Johnny that his relationship with Kate Moss may have had some domestic violence, I have no idea if there is any truth to that however his 2 other long term exes came forward to his defense where as Kate was very quiet..even after Amber alleged that he had pushed her down stairs during their relationship

It may be the case that Johnny reacts in certain ways to certain types of personalities, who knows but neither seem totally innocent to me

There were rumours years ago he attacked Kate and once threw her down the stairs. Since she never came forward to debunk them I honestly believe it happened.

TS said everything I think really, better than I ever could. Both drug abusers who battered each other. I personally think both should be held equally accountable. My issue comes with people demonising Amber and then posting crap like '#justiceforjohnny' like he was a cowering victim sitting in corner of the room.

[Nicky91]

https://twitter.com/DailyMailCeleb/status/1323231856402276352

[Amy Jade]

I hate siding with the Scum, breaks my heart but he did abuse her (and she abused him before anyone starts) and they were man and wife so their description of him is accurate.

[Ammi]

I hate siding with the Scum, breaks my heart but he did abuse her (and she abused him before anyone starts) and they were man and wife so their description of him is accurate.

...yeah that’s exactly how I was feeling when I saw the news, Amy...but it sounds like a pretty damning certainty from the judge...so accuracy in what was reported by the Sun...

[user104658]

I just wish "news"papers would stick to news (even if it's just light-hearted frivolous stuff) rather than reporting on celebrities' personal lives.

[Nicky91]

Amber must definitely get an oscar nomination for this performance of the ''victim'' and how well she used her acting skills to get what she wants

i never have and i never will see Johnny as a bad person

[bots]

I just wish "news"papers would stick to news (even if it's just light-hearted frivolous stuff) rather than reporting on celebrities' personal lives.


we have had years of pretty grim news ... by now there has to be market for frivolous news

[Ammi]

I just wish "news"papers would stick to news (even if it's just light-hearted frivolous stuff) rather than reporting on celebrities' personal lives.

...sadly, more ‘click bait’ stuff seems to be what attracts because back in the day when it was more ‘news’Papers..?..The wasn’t the competing with social media ‘news’...

[arista]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/11/02/12/article-8904659-35145170-429_964x544.jpg

[user104658]

Amber must definitely get an oscar nomination for this performance of the ''victim'' and how well she used her acting skills to get what she wants

Meh, her career is wrecked and happy people don't end up in these situations. I don't think she's "got what she wants". I feel quite sad for both of them to be honest, prime examples of how being rich & famous does not automatically = happy people.

[utopianman]

I hate siding with the Scum, breaks my heart but he did abuse her (and she abused him before anyone starts) and they were man and wife so their description of him is accurate.

thats wrong , she abused him
all his partners came forward and said he was not abusive at all, 1 partner of 14 years
this woman is a psycho you listen to the endless tapes of lies, threats violence and abuse from her
he must appeal , the judge is an absolute fool to jump to this wrongful conclusion and let the sun off the hook
If I was depp I would press charges against her too

[utopianman]

Amber must definitely get an oscar nomination for this performance of the ''victim'' and how well she used her acting skills to get what she wants

i never have and i never will see Johnny as a bad person

same here, funny hows hes gone 50 years and had umpteen relationships yet only when hes with this abusive psycho does his reputation get smeared. shes an abusive violent lying scumbag

[Amy Jade]

thats wrong , she abused him
all his partners came forward and said he was not abusive at all, 1 partner of 14 years
this woman is a psycho you listen to the endless tapes of lies, threats violence and abuse from her
he must appeal , the judge is an absolute fool to jump to this wrongful conclusion and let the sun off the hook
If I was depp I would press charges against her too
Kate Moss never came forward and he has been accused of hitting her.

[Tom4784]

I believed her completely until those tapes came out, now I simply can't believe her to be a victim since it seems she enjoyed the toxicity of their relationship while Depp at least tried to fix things. To me, she seems to be a manipulative and coercive person and if the genders were flipped, we'd be a lot more sympathetic towards Depp and a lot more angry at her, since everything about her screams coercive abuse.

Violence is never okay but, if you're being abused by someone and you lash out, that doesn't make you an abuser like them. It doesn't feel right to bring up the soaps look at Coronation street with Yasmeen and Geoff, is she an abuser for snapping and attacking him after months of mental abuse? No one would think so.

I believed Amber Heard once, never again, especially with damning stuff coming out about how her assistant opened up to her about being raped and then she stole the story and made out it happened to her to garner sympathy. That isn't something a victim would do, that's manipulation and horrific manipulation at that. She's a psycho.

[utopianman]

Kate Moss never came forward and he has been accused of hitting her.

Ive never heard that before and I never ever judge a person without significant proof and evidence. I think Ill go with his 50 years of good character and endless good references from zillions of people over your alleged gossip

[Amy Jade]

Ive never heard that before and I never ever judge a person without significant proof and evidence. I think Ill go with his 50 years of good character and endless good references from zillions of people over your alleged gossip

OK brillo

[Jack_]

depp is a good guy she is evil. she is the perpetrator in every argument and she has been far more violent too, the judge got this horribly wrong.

Yeah this is definitely the truth

[utopianman]

I believed her completely until those tapes came out, now I simply can't believe her to be a victim since it seems she enjoyed the toxicity of their relationship while Depp at least tried to fix things. To me, she seems to be a manipulative and coercive person and if the genders were flipped, we'd be a lot more sympathetic towards Depp and a lot more angry at her, since everything about her screams coercive abuse.

Violence is never okay but, if you're being abused by someone and you lash out, that doesn't make you an abuser like them. It doesn't feel right to bring up the soaps look at Coronation street with Yasmeen and Geoff, is she an abuser for snapping and attacking him after months of mental abuse? No one would think so.

I believed Amber Heard once, never again, especially with damning stuff coming out about how her assistant opened up to her about being raped and then she stole the story and made out it happened to her to garner sympathy. That isn't something a victim would do, that's manipulation and horrific manipulation at that. She's a psycho.

agreed. also to totally falsify a rape allegation and take it to the press and police is worthy of a long prison sentence. absolutely horrific. It destroys the life of the falsely accused and their family and friends and children...it also undermines real victims of rape and wastes crucial police time and money too

[Nicky91]

I believed her completely until those tapes came out, now I simply can't believe her to be a victim since it seems she enjoyed the toxicity of their relationship while Depp at least tried to fix things. To me, she seems to be a manipulative and coercive person and if the genders were flipped, we'd be a lot more sympathetic towards Depp and a lot more angry at her, since everything about her screams coercive abuse.

Violence is never okay but, if you're being abused by someone and you lash out, that doesn't make you an abuser like them. It doesn't feel right to bring up the soaps look at Coronation street with Yasmeen and Geoff, is she an abuser for snapping and attacking him after months of mental abuse? No one would think so.

I believed Amber Heard once, never again, especially with damning stuff coming out about how her assistant opened up to her about being raped and then she stole the story and made out it happened to her to garner sympathy. That isn't something a victim would do, that's manipulation and horrific manipulation at that. She's a psycho.

of course, and her now also profiting from the whole more #MeToo current times, can also see the Court Jury being manipulated by her fake tears


also we do not know wether he was the one who started the fights, or she provoked him with toxic behaviour, Court Jury might've been manipulated into thinking it was the former, while it could've been the latter, her having started with all this drama

[Marsh.]

Also, the nerve of that scum publication to bleat about all they do for victims of domestic violence, given the front page story they ran on JK Rowling's abusive ex husband a matter of months ago. :umm2:

[arista]

Depp Lawyers are to Fight this

https://news.sky.com/story/johnny-depp-v-the-sun-all-the-reaction-to-the-ruling-12121613

[Vanessa]

I believed her completely until those tapes came out, now I simply can't believe her to be a victim since it seems she enjoyed the toxicity of their relationship while Depp at least tried to fix things. To me, she seems to be a manipulative and coercive person and if the genders were flipped, we'd be a lot more sympathetic towards Depp and a lot more angry at her, since everything about her screams coercive abuse.

Violence is never okay but, if you're being abused by someone and you lash out, that doesn't make you an abuser like them. It doesn't feel right to bring up the soaps look at Coronation street with Yasmeen and Geoff, is she an abuser for snapping and attacking him after months of mental abuse? No one would think so.

I believed Amber Heard once, never again, especially with damning stuff coming out about how her assistant opened up to her about being raped and then she stole the story and made out it happened to her to garner sympathy. That isn't something a victim would do, that's manipulation and horrific manipulation at that. She's a psycho.
I agree, she isn't a victim at all.

[Kazanne]

The SUN newspaper should never win anything,it should have followed the News of the World,scummy tabloid.

[Parmy]

I just wish "news"papers would stick to news (even if it's just light-hearted frivolous stuff) rather than reporting on celebrities' personal lives.

Tibb would die.

[arista]

https://c.files.bbci.co.uk/6A84/production/_115186272_metro-nc.png

[LaLaLand]

I just wish "news"papers would stick to news (even if it's just light-hearted frivolous stuff) rather than reporting on celebrities' personal lives.

Couldn't agree more. We live in a world with such a toxic mass media problem.

[Kizzy]

The SUN newspaper should never win anything,it should have followed the News of the World,scummy tabloid.

I'm with you on that, but I'd go further and suggest all papers remove 'opinion' pieces that are regularly confused with checkable factual reports.
These are pointless and only go to show a political bias.

[Kizzy]

The misogynistic trolling of Amber in these threads might reduce now. Who am I kidoing?

[Tom4784]

The misogynistic trolling of Amber in these threads might reduce now. Who am I kidoing?

Ah, so any negative opinion of an abuser is misogynistic trolling because she just so happens to be a woman?

[Marsh.]

Ah, so any negative opinion of an abuser is misogynistic trolling because she just so happens to be a woman?

That's embarrassing at best and disgusting at worst.

[user104658]

Ah, so any negative opinion of an abuser is misogynistic trolling because she just so happens to be a woman?I'm sure unintentional but this sounds so MRA [emoji23].

In seriousness though (opinion piece coming up), the Depp/Heard situation is clearly extremely complex, evidence of violence all round, mixed up in substance abuse and mental health issues. They both clearly have massive personal issues and their relationship was beyond toxic. I think that part of that for Heard is that the toxic relationship sparked joy for her, she probably associates the aggression, violence and craziness with an "intense" or "passionate" relationship as part of her own personal demons (not uncommon) whereas frankly Depp is getting on a bit and was probably getting very tired of it and wanted it all to stop. That's what I hear in the tapes. It doesn't mean he wasn't an active participant before that point of having had enough. Also, the fact that his previous relationships weren't violent really means zip - they were different relationships.

In short I think they were both violent and Depps probably wasn't "just" retaliatory/in self defense, Heard has done a lot of lying and manipulating on top but it's all wrapped up in the same thing.

Based purely on the tapes that were released you could even say that Heard was the worse of the two, certainly in terms of being emotionally manipulative, but then that assumes they tell the whole story.

But as I said to Truth/Brillo/Whoever that multi is, this "Depp pure and innocent, Heard demon" narrative just isn't the real world, it's film/telly territory and completely unrealistic.

[Ammi]

...it’s been found by the judge that on at least 12 occasions, he did abuse her...So this is obviously a win for Amber and a loss for Johnny but more importantly than that it’s a win for domestic abuse victims and a loss for their abusers...and we’re obviously just about to go into another lockdown situation with households having little outer contact...so not a thriving situation for COVID but most certainly a thriving situation for domestic abuse...it’s so important for this to be the focus, rather than two celebrities who appeared to have possibly had a complicated/toxic relationship...He was found to have abused her on at least 12 occasions and that’s pretty horrendous...

...one of the things that I noticed yesterday in some news channels showing them leaving the court on various occasions...this whole thing, each day in court and with the view of the vein of it all...each day must have been so harrowing, so emotionally exhausting...but there were times when Johnny almost ‘skipped out’ and down the steps and waving and smiling etc to his ‘appreciation crowd’...there seemed much more mixed emotions from Amber, the emotional exhaustion showing more in times of her being somber and tearful etc...that never really quite sat well with me because he would also know that this wasn’t just about them either, it was about domestic abuse victims...and he fully knew that he’d abused her, as the judge has declared that to have been fully proven...so he’s really shown little regard to that and the many female victims in the seriousness of this case...

[bots]

Depp has never been an actor that i ever liked, he always made my skin crawl for some reason, to the point i couldn't care less what he does in his private life. I just don't want to know about it. As a result, this is a simple case of he lost a court case ... great, now i can continue to ignore him

[Ammi]

....I do actually care a lot about this../...their private life because in terms of domestic abuse there is a bigger picture and many layers and especially if it’s Male on female domestic abuse and it’s a ‘popular Male’...

[Ammi]

...domestic abuse is a huge concern atm in particular because of lockdown times, which are creating a thriving situation...

[Nicky91]

Depp has never been an actor that i ever liked, he always made my skin crawl for some reason, to the point i couldn't care less what he does in his private life. I just don't want to know about it. As a result, this is a simple case of he lost a court case ... great, now i can continue to ignore him

has had some iconic roles though

Captain Jack Sparrow

Willy Wonka

Tonto

Edward Scissorhands

[Marsh.]

...it’s been found by the judge that on at least 12 occasions, he did abuse her...So this is obviously a win for Amber and a loss for Johnny but more importantly than that it’s a win for domestic abuse victims and a loss for their abusers...

Is it though?
I think it's doing a lot of damage tbh. Outside of the fact it was clearly an abusive relationship on both sides, the result of this libel trial is now starting a narrative in the papers (and on news shows) that the abusive woman remains the victim in this scenario, regardless of her own behaviours. Extremely damaging and playing into stereotypes IMO.

They've both contributed to a toxic relationship, but, as the man, he's the "wife beater" who deserves to be vilified across the newspapers it seems by scum like Dan Wootton, whilst she, as the woman, gets to play act the victim and be the "winner" and anyone who dares point that out is "misogynistic". Nah, doesn't sit right at all.

Those are the outdated attitudes Heard has relied on to push all blame onto Depp and destroy his life and career.

[Ammi]

Is it though?
I think it's doing a lot of damage tbh. Outside of the fact it was clearly an abusive relationship on both sides, the result of this libel trial is now starting a narrative in the papers (and on news shows) that the abusive woman remains the victim in this scenario, regardless of her own behaviours. Extremely damaging and playing into stereotypes IMO.

They've both contributed to a toxic relationship, but he's the "wife beater" who deserves to be vilified across the newspapers it seems by scum like Dan Wootton, whilst she gets to play act the victim and be the "winner". Nah, doesn't sit right at all.

...but surely we can only look at what’s been ruled on/found to be true...(...I don’t know all of the details, I will say...I haven’t been a huge follower of the case..)...and that’s that 12 cases of abuse against him have been found to be truth ...I don’t really know beyond that, what the possibility of ‘two contributions’ would have been and what bearing they would have on his abuse...because he has been found to be a ‘wife beater’ as such so she is a victim of that finding...

[Marsh.]

...but surely we can only look at what’s been ruled on/found to be true...(...I don’t know all of the details, I will say...I haven’t been a huge follower of the case..)...and that’s that 12 cases of abuse against him have been found to be truth ...I don’t really know beyond that, what the possibility of ‘two contributions’ would have been and what bearing they would have on his abuse...because he has been found to be a ‘wife beater’ as such so she is a victim of that finding...

The court case was against the Sun. So I wouldn't consider it any kind of "win" or "confirmation of victimhood" for Heard, neither of which has been "found to be true".

The only thing that's occurred is a scum publication has been given more ammunition to continue publishing half-truths depending on who they are or are not supporting on the whims of the personal preferences of people like Dan Wootton. That's not a good thing and never will be.

[Ammi]

The court case was against the Sun. So I wouldn't consider it any kind of "win" or "confirmation of victimhood" for Heard, neither of which has been "found to be true".

...the courts case, so far as I believe...?...was ‘don’t call me a wife beater...(..I’m not sure that those were the exact words used by the Sun...)..because I’m not a wife beater...but the courts have proved him to be a wife beater../..abuser with at least 12 serious abuses ...so that is really a win for domestic abuse, surely...when a liar guilty of domestic abuse is proven by the courts to be a liar...

[Ammi]

...I don’t understand, Marsh...they’re not half truths..the judge actually used the wording of them being truths...

[Marsh.]

...the courts case, so far as I believe...?...was ‘don’t call me a wife beater...(..I’m not sure that those were the exact words used by the Sun...)..because I’m not a wife beater...but the courts have proved him to be a wife beater../..abuser with at least 12 serious abuses ...so that is really a win for domestic abuse, surely...when a liar guilty of domestic abuse is proven by the courts to be a liar...

Not when the narrative is being presented as "a win for victim of domestic abuse victim Amber Heard" like you just posted. That's damaging.

If you find a misrepresentation and one-sided view of domestic violence to be in favour of a woman, purely for being a woman, and against the man labelled "wife beater" any kind of "win" for any victim of domestic abuse of either gender then I'm kind of speechless tbh. :shrug:

[Marsh.]

...I don’t understand, Marsh...they’re not half truths..the judge actually used the wording of them being truths...

It is a half-truth.

[Ammi]

Not when the narrative is being presented as "a win for victim of domestic abuse Amber Heard" like you just posted. That's damaging.

If you find a misrepresentation and one-sided view of domestic violence to be in favour of a woman, purely for being a woman, and against the man labelled "wife beater" any kind of "win" for any victim of domestic abuse of either gender then I'm kind of speechless tbh. :shrug:

..it isn’t because she’s a woman, though...it’s because nothing is proven against her, she wasn’t the one that took out the court action...and the judge heard all evidence of any ‘actions’ with her as well, and has still ruled that Johnny is an abuser...I can’t say beyond that, what hasn’t been in any way proven regarding Amber because that wouldn’t be right...

[Ammi]

...it’s a victory for domestic abuse victims because someone who said ‘no I’m not’ when in fact they are...has been found to have lied by a the court judge...

[Marsh.]

..it isn’t because she’s a woman, though...it’s because nothing is proven against her, she wasn’t the one that took out the court action...and the judge heard all evidence of any ‘actions’ with her as well, and has still ruled that Johnny is an abuser...I can’t say beyond that, what hasn’t been in any way proven regarding Amber because that wouldn’t be right...

But it's right for you to say the media slant and misrepresentation of Heard as a victim is a win for domestic abuse victims? Nope. That's complete and utter bollocks.

It's really not any different to the story they ran on JK Rowling's husband, giving him the platform to defend his actions and blame the other person.

If this was the other way around, NO WAY would Depp be being portrayed as the victim and a "win for victims".

[Nicky91]

..it isn’t because she’s a woman, though...it’s because nothing is proven against her, she wasn’t the one that took out the court action...and the judge heard all evidence of any ‘actions’ with her as well, and has still ruled that Johnny is an abuser...I can’t say beyond that, what hasn’t been in any way proven regarding Amber because that wouldn’t be right...

his only mistake he ever made was getting together with this insane attention seeker of a woman what she is

[Ammi]

But it's right for you to say the media slant and misrepresentation of Heard as a victim is a win for domestic abuse victims? Nope. That's complete and utter bollocks.

It's really not any different to the story they ran on JK Rowling's husband, giving him the platform to defend his actions and blame the other person.

If this was the other way around, NO WAY would Depp be being portrayed as the victim and a "win for victims".

...one of the fundamentals we appear not to be in the same ground on...is that you feel it’s been a media slant and misinterpretation of Amber Heard being a victim of domestic abuse...and I don’t think see that slant and misinterpretation, she has been a victim of domestic abuse and that’s been proven by the court...

[Ammi]

his only mistake he ever made was getting together with this insane attention seeker of a woman what she is

...his ‘only mistake’ Nicky...was abusing her at least 12 times in their time together...

[Marsh.]

...one of the fundamentals we appear not to be in the same ground on...is that you feel it’s been a media slant and misinterpretation of Amber Heard being a victim of domestic abuse...and I don’t think see that slant and misinterpretation, she has been a victim of domestic abuse and that’s been proven by the court...

You don't see the slant and misrepresentation in a toxic relationship full of drink, drugs and physical violence being reported as "man abuses wife" as unfair, unbalanced and damaging?

You take the trial (which wasn't about Heard) but entirely focussed on one side of the story in order to give a scum tabloid more ammunition to post only their own versions of the truth as a positive?

The conversation stops here then. Heard does not represent victims, anymore than Depp does.

[arista]

...it’s a victory for domestic abuse victims because someone who said ‘no I’m not’ when in fact they are...has been found to have lied by a the court judge...


And She
Assaulted him

[Niamh.]

...it’s been found by the judge that on at least 12 occasions, he did abuse her...So this is obviously a win for Amber and a loss for Johnny but more importantly than that it’s a win for domestic abuse victims and a loss for their abusers...and we’re obviously just about to go into another lockdown situation with households having little outer contact...so not a thriving situation for COVID but most certainly a thriving situation for domestic abuse...it’s so important for this to be the focus, rather than two celebrities who appeared to have possibly had a complicated/toxic relationship...He was found to have abused her on at least 12 occasions and that’s pretty horrendous...

...one of the things that I noticed yesterday in some news channels showing them leaving the court on various occasions...this whole thing, each day in court and with the view of the vein of it all...each day must have been so harrowing, so emotionally exhausting...but there were times when Johnny almost ‘skipped out’ and down the steps and waving and smiling etc to his ‘appreciation crowd’...there seemed much more mixed emotions from Amber, the emotional exhaustion showing more in times of her being somber and tearful etc...that never really quite sat well with me because he would also know that this wasn’t just about them either, it was about domestic abuse victims...and he fully knew that he’d abused her, as the judge has declared that to have been fully proven...so he’s really shown little regard to that and the many female victims in the seriousness of this case...

Yeah. You also get the impression that people just want to believe Johnny is completely innocent because he's a well loved good looking actor, it feels to me that people in general (not always just men either) are more comfortable with the woman being the bad one and the liar. Initially, people believed Amber because of some recordings but when some others came out to show her acting abusive it was like people were so relieved they could now act like Johnny was the poor manipulated good guy when that really does not seem to be the case at all, it looks very much like both of them acted abusive and aggressive.

[Marsh.]

Yeah. You also get the impression that people just want to believe Johnny is completely innocent because he's a well loved good looking actor, it feels to me that people in general (not always just men either) are more comfortable with the woman being the bad one and the liar. Initially, people believed Amber because of some recordings but when some others came out to show her acting abusive it was like people were so relieved they could now act like Johnny was the poor manipulated good guy when that really does not seem to be the case at all, it looks very much like both of them acted abusive and aggressive.

BIB - I feel the media and social media is far more comfortable with the "wife beater" mentality, as evidenced by the response to the trial.

[Niamh.]

BIB - I feel the media and social media is far more comfortable with the "wife beater" mentality, as evidenced by the response to the trial.

I don't know Marsh, I've seen a lot more people backing Johnny on here and on social media

[Marsh.]

I don't know Marsh, I've seen a lot more people backing Johnny on here and on social media

I see that more as backing him within his legal battle against The Sun, for which he had my full support.

This "win for Amber" twisting of the whole thing does not sit right at all for me. If the court case did anything, it was highlight the toxicity of the relationship on both sides. The slanting of it to now be that the "victim" has had her justification is repulsive to me and damaging for male victims of domestic abuse. How on earth can they feel comfortable coming forward as it is, and now they have to contend with a famous female abuser being presented as the victim? :facepalm: Stop the world I want to get off.

[Ammi]

You don't see the slant and misrepresentation in a toxic relationship full of drink, drugs and physical violence being reported as "man abuses wife" as unfair, unbalanced and damaging?

You take the trial (which wasn't about Heard) but entirely focussed on one side of the story in order to give a scum tabloid more ammunition to post only their own versions of the truth as a positive?

The conversation stops here then. Heard does not represent victims, anymore than Depp does.

...we don’t know anything about the relationship, though...surely that’s all subject to slant and misinterpretations as well, so not something I’ve read because all we can say is what is found to be truth in court when the slant and misinterpretations are completely cleared for the justice system to apply...whatever an individual may feel about either one of the parted couple....Amber does represent a victim of abuse because he did in fact abuse her....whether there are any layers to ‘the story‘, we don’t know...

[Marsh.]

...we don’t know anything about the relationship, though...surely that’s all subject to slant and misinterpretations as well

Yes, it is subject to slant and misrepresentation. As has happened and continues to do so.

Slanting it in the opposite direction would also be wrong, that's not an excuse for where it is currently biased.

A balanced view of the facts of their relationship would be a start but that's asking for too much in the media in 2020.

[Ammi]

Yeah. You also get the impression that people just want to believe Johnny is completely innocent because he's a well loved good looking actor, it feels to me that people in general (not always just men either) are more comfortable with the woman being the bad one and the liar. Initially, people believed Amber because of some recordings but when some others came out to show her acting abusive it was like people were so relieved they could now act like Johnny was the poor manipulated good guy when that really does not seem to be the case at all, it looks very much like both of them acted abusive and aggressive.

...this is something as well that’s very much in my thoughts atm...I watched the trailer and I completely understand why this has become so distasteful and so wrong on so many levels...

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/bbc-apologises-over-oscar-pistorius-trailer-185127361.html

[Niamh.]

I see that more as backing him within his legal battle against The Sun, for which he had my full support.

This "win for Amber" twisting of the whole thing does not sit right at all for me. If the court case did anything, it was highlight the toxicity of the relationship on both sides. The slanting of it to now be that the "victim" has had her justification is repulsive to me and damaging for male victims of domestic abuse. How on earth can they feel comfortable coming forward as it is, and now they have to contend with a famous female abuser being presented as the victim? :facepalm: Stop the world I want to get off.

I do agree with you that there seemed to be 2 of them in it, in this abusive relationship but if what the articles said were true as decided by court, then why would he pursue them as being false? It comes across to me that Johnny saw that the tide hide turned on public opinion and he was the one getting the sympathy now and he thought he could ride that wave all the way to the newspapers. His actions aren't helpful to any victims - and they are his actions -

[Niamh.]

...this is something as well that’s very much in my thoughts atm...I watched the trailer and I completely understand why this has become so distasteful and so wrong on so many levels...

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/bbc-apologises-over-oscar-pistorius-trailer-185127361.html

Oh I saw that, and yeah that is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. So ****ing gross and disrespectful

[Marsh.]

I do agree with you that there seemed to be 2 of them in it, in this abusive relationship but if what the articles said were true as decided by court, then why would he pursue them as being false? It comes across to me that Johnny saw that the tide hide turned on public opinion and he was the one getting the sympathy now and he thought he could ride that wave all the way to the newspapers. His actions aren't helpful to any victims - and they are his actions -

Clearly for the same reasons she did, they're at war with each other, part of that is playing the victim.

This is why I find it sickening that anyone would describe this as in anyway a positive for victims of domestic abuse.

It seems some people can see the imbalance when it favours the man, but not when it's favouring the woman, that's extremely problematic.

[Ammi]

Yes, it is subject to slant and misrepresentation. As has happened and continues to do so.

Slanting it in the opposite direction would also be wrong, that's not an excuse for where it is currently biased.

A balanced view of the facts of their relationship would be a start but that's asking for too much in the media in 2020.

...but it isn’t slanting it in the opposite direction..(...as I see it...)...to only look at court rulings to be proven truths ...he is a proven abuser, Amber Heard isn’t...for the moment, she isn’t...

[Niamh.]

Clearly for the same reasons she did, they're at war with each other, part of that is playing the victim.

This is why I find it sickening that anyone would describe this as in anyway a positive for victims of domestic abuse.

Yes but he is the one who is suing the Newspaper here not her

[Marsh.]

...but it isn’t slanting it in the opposite direction..(...as I see it...)...to only look at court rulings to be proven truths ...he is a proven abuser, Amber Heard isn’t...for the moment, she isn’t...

To call it a win for victims is a slant and a misrepresentation. I don't care how people justify that narrative.

[Nicky91]

...this is something as well that’s very much in my thoughts atm...I watched the trailer and I completely understand why this has become so distasteful and so wrong on so many levels...

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/bbc-apologises-over-oscar-pistorius-trailer-185127361.html

As95v4POn6s

you mean from this documentary?

[Marsh.]

Yes but he is the one who is suing the Newspaper here not her

I never said she had? :conf:

I said they've both brought the details of their relationship into the limelight in an effort to expose the other, and to defend themselves.

Him exposing her actions = misogynistic victim blaming
Her exposing his actions = a win for domestic abuse victims

That's just... all kinds of wrong.

[Ammi]

...okay, so this is my words and what I said...?...as from the last lockdown, I have personal experiences of domestic abuse in homes and it being male on female abuse ...?...yeah, those were my thoughts as we go into lockdown again because it’s a huge concern for victims...?....the added stress atm and then condensing that stress into confinement’s....anyways, I realise that I focused quite singularly there because of personal thought processes and that abuse is extended to all victims, regardless of gender...as it couldn’t not be an equal concern...I apologise for that, Marsh...I do get very focused in at times...

[Niamh.]

I never said she had? :conf:

I said they've both brought the details of their relationship into the limelight in an effort to expose the other, and to defend themselves.

Him exposing her actions = misogynistic victim blaming
Her exposing his actions = a win for domestic abuse victims

That's just... all kinds of wrong.

I don't think that's what Ammi had said though, I wouldn't like to speak for her but isn't this the first actually proven instance of abuse happening in the whole saga? Not just them throwing mud at each other

[Marsh.]

Oh, there's no need to apologise, honestly. Your view is your view.
It's just the amount of misinformation that gets spread (I know, I know, what's new on the internet) is incredibly frustrating. With people treating it like it was a domestic abuse court case where it's been judged Johnny Depp abused his wife. Full stop.

When the case was only focussed on libel for one article the Scum posted about him.

The use of the result of that to entirely change the narrative is troubling.

[Marsh.]

I don't think that's what Ammi had said though, I wouldn't like to speak for her but isn't this the first actually proven instance of abuse happening in the whole saga? Not just them throwing mud at each other

I would call the recordings ironclad proof. But that's up to individuals.

Also, my posts aren't all directed at Ammi. :laugh:

Edit - Yes, let me just clarify I'm not having a go at Ammi, but the entire representation/attitude to this I've seen in the media/social media/on TV since the verdict. :worry:

[Niamh.]

Oh, there's no need to apologise, honestly. Your view is your view.
It's just the amount of misinformation that gets spread (I know, I know, what's new on the internet) is incredibly frustrating. With people treating it like it was a domestic abuse court case where it's been judged Johnny Depp abused his wife. Full stop.

When the case was only focussed on libel for one article the Scum posted about him.

The use of the result of that to entirely change the narrative is troubling.

Oh I don't think anyone really believes that's the whole story, it's just a bit off in my eyes that he would go that far to lie about him having any involvement in the dishing out of abuse and I think maybe that could be bad for male victims of abuse coming forward, if you get what I mean?

[Marsh.]

Oh I don't think anyone really believes that's the whole story, it's just a bit off in my eyes that he would go that far to lie about him having any involvement in the dishing out of abuse and I think maybe that could be bad for male victims of abuse coming forward, if you get what I mean?

Anyone? :suspect: I will completely disagree with you there. Loose Women yesterday (god knows what possessed me to watch it) championing what it's done for women repulsed me.

Absolutely, my point is this case hasn't done anyone any favours, least of all Heard and Depp themselves. It's why I can't fathom the idea of the verdict being good for anyone bar more justification for a biased and cesspit media. But that's just business as usual for the Sun.

[Liam-]

Johnny wasn’t on trial, so I don’t see how it can be seen as him being found guilty of anything

[Ammi]

I would call the recordings ironclad proof. But that's up to individuals.

Also, my posts aren't all directed at Ammi. :laugh:

Edit - Yes, let me just clarify I'm not having a go at Ammi, but the entire representation/attitude to this I've seen in the media/social media/on TV since the verdict. :worry:

...the thing is though, it’s not really judging Amber, though because it’s specific to what he did...as in he said the Sun were lying and they weren’t ...(...is the finding...)...that it was truth...So acknowledging his abuse as a court proved fact...also has to acknowledge Amber’s victim of abuse as a court proved fact also fact, also...that doesn’t mean that he wasn’t a victim also, that would have to also be assessed in a court...but that doesn’t take from her being a victim...

[Vanessa]

It just annoys me that she protrayed herself as the victim.
Especially when the tapes came out and what I always suspected was true : that's she's a very abusive kind of person.
Now Johnny may not be perfect, but he's not malicious like her.
He may have had to defend himself, but there's nothing wrong with that.

[Ammi]

As95v4POn6s

you mean from this documentary?

...yeah, I won’t watch the trailer again, Nicky...but I believe that’s the one...

[Marsh.]

So acknowledging his abuse as a court proved fact...also has to acknowledge Amber’s victim of abuse as a court proved fact also fact, also...

No. COMPLETELY disagree.

This was not a domestic abuse trial.

[bots]

Johnny wasn’t on trial, so I don’t see how it can be seen as him being found guilty of anything

he tried to challenge reality and force the press to portray a false picture of who he is as an individual

[Niamh.]

Anyone? :suspect: I will completely disagree with you there.

Anyone that I've seen then :p

Absolutely, my point is this case hasn't done anyone any favours, least of all Heard and Depp themselves. It's why I can't fathom the idea of the verdict being good for anyone bar more justification for a biased and cesspit media. But that's just business as usual for the Sun.
God knows why they both didn't just lie low and hoped it would all just blow over.....

Johnny wasn’t on trial, so I don’t see how it can be seen as him being found guilty of anything

Well the Sun were on trial for lying about him being abusive and it was found that they weren't lying so :shrug:

[Marsh.]

he tried to challenge reality and force the press to portray a false picture of who he is as an individual

No he didn't. :suspect: They already falsely presented his former marriage as one-sided.

He's always shunned the media. Probably why they were so eager to pile-on.

[Niamh.]

It just annoys me that she protrayed herself as the victim.
Especially when the tapes came out and what I always suspected was true : that's she's a very abusive kind of person.
Now Johnny may not be perfect, but he's not malicious like her.
He may have had to defend himself, but there's nothing wrong with that.

With all due respect Vanessa you have absolutely no idea what kind of a person Johnny is

[Liam-]

Well the Sun were on trial for lying about him being abusive and it was found that they weren't lying so :shrug:

He couldn’t prove to an acceptable level that he didn’t beat his wife, how does someone prove something like that? Especially in a world right now where men are automatically believed to be the abusers

[Ammi]

No. COMPLETELY disagree.

This was not a domestic abuse trial.

...no it wasn’t but, I understand that...but there was specific note made by the judge that at least 12 abuse allegations were found to be truth by him and the court...therefore there had to be a victim of those at least 12 truths...

[Vanessa]

With all due respect Vanessa you have absolutely no idea what kind of a person Johnny is

Maybe not, but he's always been my favourite actor and I've followed his career over the years.

[Niamh.]

He couldn’t prove to an acceptable level that he didn’t beat his wife, how does someone prove something like that? Especially in a world right now where men are automatically believed to be the abusers

No, the Sun proved to a sufficient standard that he did do it

[Ammi]

...anyways, I’ll leave you all to it...(...after lighting the fire with my morning thoughts...)...if there is more justice and more victims and more truth to be revealed then I hope that, that happens...

[Marsh.]

...no it wasn’t but, I understand that...but there was specific note made by the judge that at least 12 abuse allegations were found to be truth by him and the court...therefore there had to be a victim of those at least 12 truths...

Completely disagree.

The presentation of facts within a context is key.

Him abusing Heard is one context.
Him abusing Heard and being on the receiving end of abuse from Heard is an entirely different context.

So, you can say "technically" The Sun cherry picked "facts" of actions Depp carried out. Are those facts a "whole truth" that accurately represent an "abuser" and a "victim"? No. It's a technicality.

[AnnieK]

The relationship was toxic. There are huge amounts of fault on both sides if the evidence presented at the trial is to be believed. No man should ever lay a hand on a woman but simarly the opposite is true, no woman should lay a hand on a man in anger and I believe they have both abused each other.

The only "winner" in this case is the Sun. I think it could have a massive detrimental effect on male costing of abuse coming forward due to the courts believing the woman.

[Niamh.]

The relationship was toxic. There are huge amounts of fault on both sides if the evidence presented at the trial is to be believed. No man should ever lay a hand on a woman but simarly the opposite is true, no woman should lay a hand on a man in anger and I believe they have both abuses each other.

Yep.

[Ammi]

Completely disagree.

The presentation of facts within a context is key.

...but the courts felt that the contexts were there for the ruling of ‘truths’...anyways, later alligator...I’m off...:love:..

[Vanessa]

Johnny Depp is going to appeal. Right decision.

[Marsh.]

...but the courts felt that the contexts were there for the ruling of ‘truths’...anyways, later alligator...I’m off...:love:..

It was based on the technicality of a "fact". An isolated fact is not a whole truth. Much less the representation of what The Sun claimed those facts represented, which is a far more complex story.

Laters. :love:

[Liam-]

he tried to challenge reality and force the press to portray a false picture of who he is as an individual

Funny, that’s literally what Amber did

No, the Sun proved to a sufficient standard that he did do it

Ah, I forgot Dan Wooton was Inspector Morse

[Liam-]

Let’s face it, Johnny was always going to be labelled as the abuser or the man that got away with being an abuser, that’s how it works and that is down to Amber purposefully portraying herself as the ultimate innocent victim when she is in fact, far from it

[Niamh.]

Funny, that’s literally what Amber did



Ah, I forgot Dan Wooton was Inspector Morse

The court ruled on it of course.

[Vanessa]

Let’s face it, Johnny was always going to be labelled as the abuser or the man that got away with being an abuser, that’s how it works and that is down to Amber purposefully portraying herself as the ultimate innocent victim when she is in fact, far from it

This. She's not a victim at all.
I think she's very manipulative.

[Niamh.]

Let’s face it, Johnny was always going to be labelled as the abuser or the man that got away with being an abuser, that’s how it works and that is down to Amber purposefully portraying herself as the ultimate innocent victim when she is in fact, far from it

What world do you live in Liam where you think men are the hard done by ones in these things? The whole world (and TiBB) were weeping for Sean Connery the other day who had very questionable views on hitting women and had also been abusive to atleast one of his wives, it didn't seem to affect his career or anyone's opinion on how wonderful he was though. Lets just see how the careers of Amber and Johnny go after this to decide who's label sticks hardest

[Marsh.]

What world do you live in Liam where you think men are the hard done by ones in these things? The whole world (and TiBB) were weeping for Sean Connery the other day who had very questionable views on hitting women and had also been abusive to atleast one of his wives, it didn't seem to affect his career or anyone's opinion on how wonderful he was though. Lets just see how the careers of Amber and Johnny go after this to decide who's label sticks hardest

The world has changed since Sean Connery's heyday.

I didn't even know about his views on violence against women until someone posted on twitter in response to someone saying RIP.

[Niamh.]

The world has changed since Sean Connery's heyday.

I didn't even know about his views on violence against women until someone posted on twitter in response to someone saying RIP.

As an experiment lets see who's career survives this, I give it a couple of years and Johnny Depp will be back in leading roles and he will be the lovable rogue he always was and Amber will have disappeared in to obscurity

[Liam-]

The court ruled on it of course.

You said the sun proved it, with what? All they had were Ambers stories

[Liam-]

As an experiment lets see who's career survives this, I give it a couple of years and Johnny Depp will be back in leading roles and he will be the lovable rogue he always was and Amber will have disappeared in to obscurity

Johnny was fired from jobs off the back of Ambers first statement, if she no longer works it’s because she showed herself to be a violent manipulator who tried to ruin someone’s career all to garner sympathy and cover for herself, would you feel comfortable working with someone proven to be so devious?

[Niamh.]

Johnny was fired from jobs off the back of Ambers first statement, if she no longer works it’s because she showed herself to be a violent manipulator who tried to ruin someone’s career all to garner sympathy and cover for herself, would you feel comfortable working with someone proven to be so devious?

Well no because in my view they are both abusive, I'd rather see neither of them again tbqh

[Niamh.]

You said the sun proved it, with what? All they had were Ambers stories

The judge also mentions messages sent by Depp

[Marsh.]

As an experiment lets see who's career survives this, I give it a couple of years and Johnny Depp will be back in leading roles and he will be the lovable rogue he always was and Amber will have disappeared in to obscurity

Not really an experiment given he's at the tail end of a decades long major career and she's virtually a nobody who tried to use this situation as her big break.

Not that it has made a difference to the Man = abuser woman = victim narrative in the papers. Nor did it allow him to keep one of his biggest roles in one of the biggest movie franchises ever.

[Niamh.]

Not really an experiment given he's at the tail end of a decades long major career and she's virtually a nobody who tried to use this situation as her big break.

Not that it has made a difference to the Man = abuser woman = victim narrative in the papers. Nor did it allow him to keep one of his biggest roles in one of the biggest movie franchises ever.

I believe that's a temporary outcome, I'm not psychic by any means but we'll see

[Tom4784]

Yeah. You also get the impression that people just want to believe Johnny is completely innocent because he's a well loved good looking actor, it feels to me that people in general (not always just men either) are more comfortable with the woman being the bad one and the liar. Initially, people believed Amber because of some recordings but when some others came out to show her acting abusive it was like people were so relieved they could now act like Johnny was the poor manipulated good guy when that really does not seem to be the case at all, it looks very much like both of them acted abusive and aggressive.

I've no love for Johnny Depp, in fact I fully believed everything Amber Heard said about him. I always believe the victims but those tapes... Victims don't gloat about how the world won't believe their supposed abusers, that is abuser talk. That, coupled with the other stories that came out (and most horrifically, her appropriating her assistant's rape story), just screams emotional and mental abuse. It's something I know a lot about, how abusers like that will bend the narrative to make them the victim, how they keep people under their control.

I just can't see Amber Heard as the victim, here.

[Niamh.]

I've no love for Johnny Depp, in fact I fully believed everything Amber Heard said about him. I always believe the victims but those tapes... Victims don't gloat about how the world won't believe their supposed abusers, that is abuser talk. That, coupled with the other stories that came out (and most horrifically, her appropriating her assistant's rape story), just screams emotional and mental abuse. It's something I know a lot about, how abusers like that will bend the narrative to make them the victim, how they keep people under their control.

I just can't see Amber Heard as the victim, here.

It's not that I see her as the victim, it's that I don't think Johnny is the victim either. Their relationship seemed very very toxic

[user104658]

..it isn’t because she’s a woman, though...it’s because nothing is proven against her, she wasn’t the one that took out the court action...and the judge heard all evidence of any ‘actions’ with her as well, and has still ruled that Johnny is an abuser...I can’t say beyond that, what hasn’t been in any way proven regarding Amber because that wouldn’t be right...

I mean, there are full and quite detailed recordings of conversations between them where Amber Heard in her own words admits to several acts of domestic violence. I'm not sure that I need a court to rule on that above and beyond hearing it directly from her. As I've said before though, a lot of people take those recordings as proof of Depp being 100% the victim and Heard being "the evil abuser" when if you actually listen with an unbiased ear to the recordings it's pretty clear that violence was a heavy feature of an unhealthy relationship all round from the start. As I also said there are elements of substance abuse wrapped up in there, too, and frankly mutual violence and manipulation is a common feature in such relationships. The narrative that Depp was just on the receiving end never really rang true.

Johnny wasn’t on trial, so I don’t see how it can be seen as him being found guilty of anything

I also agree with this, though... the outcome of a civil case (and in this case, not even a civil case involving the accuser, but against a newspaper) should never be taken as a legal indication/vindication. It is what it is and the burden of proof is completely different to a criminal trial.

[user104658]

It's not that I see her as the victim, it's that I don't think Johnny is the victim either. Their relationship seemed very very toxic

I see it the same but sort of different in mutual domestic abuse cases - both of them are victims and both of them are abusers. The circumstances and mindsets that lead people into these sorts of relationships is usually pretty tragic and I don't think being an abuser negates someone also being a victim. I think the two of them have made a HUGE mess.

[Nicky91]

As an experiment lets see who's career survives this, I give it a couple of years and Johnny Depp will be back in leading roles and he will be the lovable rogue he always was and Amber will have disappeared in to obscurity

well he has a third Fantastic Beasts movie upcoming for 2021


and maybe also for distraction from all this he could also make more music with that group he's in Hollywood Vampires (something i didn't know before i looked up but apparently he is in a band with Alice Cooper, Joe Perry)

[Niamh.]

I see it the same but sort of different in mutual domestic abuse cases - both of them are victims and both of them are abusers. The circumstances and mindsets that lead people into these sorts of relationships is usually pretty tragic and I don't think being an abuser negates someone also being a victim. I think the two of them have made a HUGE mess.

Yes I guess so. I feel like maybe in Depps case that he doesn't mix well with the partying lifestyle and alcohol/drugs in general and maybe that's why he had a calmer relationship with Vanessa Paradis and Winona Ryder but an "allegedly" more fiery relationship with Kate Moss - I know the actual abuse allegations are just accusations so I'm not even talking about that but there were reports back then of him thrashing hotel rooms and having verbally aggressive arguments with Kate, I think being with Kate was much more on the party scene as well.

Actually just to add when I say the victim, I meant that there wasn't The Victim and The abuser, if you know what i mean?

[user104658]

Yes I guess so. I feel like maybe in Depps case that he doesn't mix well with the partying lifestyle and alcohol/drugs in general and maybe that's why he had a calmer relationship with Vanessa Paradis and Winona Ryder but an "allegedly" more fiery relationship with Kate Moss - I know the actual abuse allegations are just accusations so I'm not even talking about that but there were reports back then of him thrashing hotel rooms and having verbally aggressive arguments with Kate, I think being with Kate was much more on the party scene as well.

Actually just to add when I say the victim, I meant that there was The Victim and The abuser, if you know what i mean?

Kate Moss is pretty well known to have had a (rather heavy) cocaine problem and cocaine has been mentioned several times in relation to Heard and Depp... it seems likely he was down a cocaine rabbit hole in both relationships. Not that substance abuse is an excuse - but I think it is a likely explanation for why some exes have said there was never any abuse and other relationships have had this shadow of being abusive.

[Niamh.]

Kate Moss is pretty well known to have had a (rather heavy) cocaine problem and cocaine has been mentioned several times in relation to Heard and Depp... it seems likely he was down a cocaine rabbit hole in both relationships. Not that substance abuse is an excuse - but I think it is a likely explanation for why some exes have said there was never any abuse and other relationships have had this shadow of being abusive.

Oh yes it's absolutely not an excuse but a possible reason why there are different versions of Depp in relationships

[Tom4784]

Both sides'ing the issue doesn't feel right though. We know Depp struggling with substance abuse, we know Amber Heard as a manipulator. We also know that Johnny Depp wanted to change and improve the nature of their relationship and Amber Heard did not. My guess is that she found it easier to get into his head when he was high and/or drunk.

They both did wrong, but I just can't say the blame is equal.

[Niamh.]

Both sides'ing the issue doesn't feel right though. We know Depp struggling with substance abuse, we know Amber Heard as a manipulator. We also know that Johnny Depp wanted to change and improve the nature of their relationship and Amber Heard did not. My guess is that she found it easier to get into his head when he was high and/or drunk.

They both did wrong, but I just can't say the blame is equal.

Do we really know all that though? We have snippets of a look into their lives from a few recordings and what they chose to say themselves. I would say they are both to blame

[Tom4784]

Do we really know all that though? We have snippets of a look into their lives from a few recordings and what they chose to say themselves. I would say they are both to blame

Snippets can be revealing though, especially when we do know the context.

[Niamh.]

Snippets can be revealing though, especially when we do know the context.

I think we've arrived at a stalemate on this one :laugh:

[Marsh.]

I get a really bad feeling about where this is all headed tbqh. Which is a damn shame.

[Niamh.]

I get a really bad feeling about where this is all headed tbqh. Which is a damn shame.

Where is it headed do you think?

[Marsh.]

Where is it headed do you think?

Suicide. :/

[Niamh.]

Suicide. :/

Oh. I hope that's not the case

[user104658]

They both did wrong, but I just can't say the blame is equal.

In what world though are the options always (or, really, EVER) 100% one, 100% the other, or square in the middle? I agree that Amber Heard seems like a nightmare, she may well have been the "worse" of the two in the relationship, but his actions are still his own.

[Ammi]

Suicide. :/

...that would obviously be awful, just such a tragic thing...:sad:..

[user104658]

Suicide. :/

Hmm. But I feel like this edges a little close to "suicide as threat". Obviously not exactly the same thing because as far as we know :suspect: you're not Johnny Depp... but I feel like it's in the same general semantic area as ["You can't do X, Y, Z or I'll kill myself!"] which is itself a well established emotional abuse/manipulation tactic. No one is ever "responsible" for another person's decision to take their own life.

[Marsh.]

Hmm. But I feel like this edges a little close to "suicide as threat". Obviously not exactly the same thing because as far as we know :suspect: you're not Johnny Depp... but I feel like it's in the same general semantic area as ["You can't do X, Y, Z or I'll kill myself!"] which is itself a well established emotional abuse/manipulation tactic. No one is ever "responsible" for another person's decision to take their own life.

What?

[Marsh.]

I literally said I get a bad feeling about where his mess of a life is headed. I haven't blamed anyone for anything that hasn't happened. Try again.

[user104658]

I literally said I get a bad feeling about where his mess of a life is headed. I haven't blamed anyone for anything that hasn't happened. Try again.

No ta :hee:

[Tom4784]

In what world though are the options always (or, really, EVER) 100% one, 100% the other, or square in the middle? I agree that Amber Heard seems like a nightmare, she may well have been the "worse" of the two in the relationship, but his actions are still his own.

I'm not saying he is 100% innocent, never have but it's clear that she holds more of the blame as the main abuser here. He shouldn't have lashed out, but I can't call him an abuser for doing so if he was being abused himself, which is fairly evident he was. I wouldn't call a woman in his position an abuser so it would be hypocritical of me to make out that he's as much of an abuser as she is.

Coercive and mental abuse is a terrible thing and Amber Heard is a whole bunch of red flags in that regard, with everything we know now. It doesn't make his actions right, it never will, but people who are abused can snap.

[Kizzy]

I'm not saying he is 100% innocent, never have but it's clear that she holds more of the blame as the main abuser here. He shouldn't have lashed out, but I can't call him an abuser for doing so if he was being abused himself, which is fairly evident he was. I wouldn't call a woman in his position an abuser so it would be hypocritical of me to make out that he's as much of an abuser as she is.

Coercive and mental abuse is a terrible thing and Amber Heard is a whole bunch of red flags in that regard, with everything we know now. It doesn't make his actions right, it never will, but people who are abused can snap.

Even after the verdict you're still creating your own narrative.
We've heard him ranting at here in covert footage, why would an abuser do that? Heard testimony from friends of hers that that was not an isolated incident and they had experienced these outbursts too.
That to me does not suggest it was some downtrodden partner snapping..

There may be other factors we are not aware of that prevent details of past relationships coming to light, prenuptial agreements or gagging orders, which to me are a form of coercive control in themselves.

[Tom4784]

Even after the verdict you're still creating your own narrative.
We've heard him ranting at here in covert footage, why would an abuser do that? Heard testimony from friends of hers that that was not an isolated incident and they had experienced these outbursts too.
That to me does not suggest it was some downtrodden partner snapping..

There may be other factors we are not aware of that prevent details of past relationships coming to light, prenuptial agreements or gagging orders, which to me are a form of coercive control in themselves.

I'm not creating anything, you simply have an incorrect assumption of what the outcome of this case means.

Very little would overcome Amber Heard appropriating rape stories to make herself look like a victim and basically goading Johnny Depp by telling him no one would believe him on tape. Neither are the actions of victims. The fact that we know that Depp tried to remedy the situation while Heard tried to keep things as they were is another strike against her.

Would you be defending Amber Heard's action if she was a man that had lied about being raped? That had told a woman that no one would believe her if she went public with what he had done? I don't think so. The difference is my opinion would remain the same regardless.

[user104658]

I'm not creating anything, you simply have an incorrect assumption of what the outcome of this case means.

Very little would overcome Amber Heard appropriating rape stories to make herself look like a victim and basically goading Johnny Depp by telling him no one would believe him on tape. Neither are the actions of victims. The fact that we know that Depp tried to remedy the situation while Heard tried to keep things as they were is another strike against her.

Would you be defending Amber Heard's action if she was a man that had lied about being raped? That had told a woman that no one would believe her if she went public with what he had done? I don't think so. The difference is my opinion would remain the same regardless.

I don't really disagree with any of what you're saying but I just think it's SUCH a messy situation, and they both very clearly have such significant personal demons, that it's pretty much impossible to pass any sort of moral judgement on the situation. I doubt we know even a fraction of the story, even when it comes to the circumstances of the recording.

Again I just feel quite sad for both of them because whether it's sad-looking Depp or grinning and smug looking Heard in the tabloid pictures, all I can see is two very unhappy individuals who were in a toxic mess of a relationship. I'm not trying to excuse either of them or make out that they're equal, just that it's so messy that there's little point trying to unravel it.

That probably applies to every personal relationship of course, but I think this one is especially murky, with the back-and-forth and the fact that they were blatantly both high as kites on coke while most of this was going on.

[Ammi]

...o have to say that I haven’t watched anything../...read anything regarding their relationship...other than vague things on here that were skim read when the trial was happening....but even if there are vids etc...they can be edited and manipulated, so we don’t know any context to the relationship at all...?...which is why I’m reluctant to comment, other than on the court ruling with the law suit and the at least 12 abuses proven truth...

[Marsh.]

No ta :hee:

:hmph:

[Marsh.]

I'm not creating anything, you simply have an incorrect assumption of what the outcome of this case means.

Very little would overcome Amber Heard appropriating rape stories to make herself look like a victim and basically goading Johnny Depp by telling him no one would believe him on tape. Neither are the actions of victims. The fact that we know that Depp tried to remedy the situation while Heard tried to keep things as they were is another strike against her.

Would you be defending Amber Heard's action if she was a man that had lied about being raped? That had told a woman that no one would believe her if she went public with what he had done? I don't think so. The difference is my opinion would remain the same regardless.

Nope, she definitely would not.

[user104658]

Dezzy and Marsh being closet MGTOW. 2020 is the year that keeps on giving. This is up there with the time we found out that Kizzy is actually a PickMe agent of the patriarchy... Who knows what she's up to in this thread :suspect:.

[Marsh.]

Dezzy and Marsh being closet MGTOW. 2020 is the year that keeps on giving. This is up there with the time we found out that Kizzy is actually a PickMe agent of the patriarchy... Who knows what she's up to in this thread :suspect:.

:skull:

[Tom4784]

Dezzy and Marsh being closet MGTOW. 2020 is the year that keeps on giving. This is up there with the time we found out that Kizzy is actually a PickMe agent of the patriarchy... Who knows what she's up to in this thread :suspect:.

Sis, don't. I hate MRAs :laugh:

[Ammi]

...I guess that this is things that people were already aware of but I’ll post the link anyway for anyone who might want to read as it’s the incidents said in court so obviously relevant...it definitely seems to have been a very complicated and layered relationship with a huge amount of toxicity of being each other’s Kryptonite...of all of the gin joints in the world, they should have never walked into each other’s... although it’s never really clear exactly what each ‘incident’ was, they both seem to concur that there was an incident as early as their honeymoon...it’s hard to believe that there wouldn’t have been things before though...that it wasn’t ‘suddenly on the honeymoon, out of the blue...’...and they’re not claiming that to be the case anyway, either...that the ‘honeymoon incident’ was in some way a shock/revelation for either...I think that in truth with the alcohol/substance abuse/medication etc involved with these ‘incidents’...neither can really say..’this is what happened/how it was...’....because that clarity just wouldn’t be there for either of them...although I do feel that there was some clarity there for both of them as well, possibly....and I also don’t necessarily believe ‘lies/manipulation/twisting’ etc from either of them with the incidents containing abuse, I do think that it’s more that their ‘truth’ just isn’t the same obviously, they’re recalling differently some very drug/alcohol added, very charged with emotion and sometimes, violence, specific incidents....but both feeling that they’re relating ‘truth’....for something not to be truth, doesn’t necessarily indicate a ‘liar’ or a manipulator etc...

...anyways, the article...

https://news.sky.com/story/johnny-depp-and-amber-heard-who-said-what-in-libel-trial-12037339

[Kizzy]

I'm not creating anything, you simply have an incorrect assumption of what the outcome of this case means.

Very little would overcome Amber Heard appropriating rape stories to make herself look like a victim and basically goading Johnny Depp by telling him no one would believe him on tape. Neither are the actions of victims. The fact that we know that Depp tried to remedy the situation while Heard tried to keep things as they were is another strike against her.

Would you be defending Amber Heard's action if she was a man that had lied about being raped? That had told a woman that no one would believe her if she went public with what he had done? I don't think so. The difference is my opinion would remain the same regardless.
What presumption have I placed on the meaning of the outcome of the case?...
She was not on trial was she? Whatever anyone thinks of her it has no baring on the outcome of the case here.

I find it interesting that these 'strikes' are only against her and the findings of the case in her favour is not seen as a strike for Depp. .. He is still seen as the victim by you.

[Tom4784]

What presumption have I placed on the meaning of the outcome of the case?...
She was not on trial was she? Whatever anyone thinks of her it has no baring on the outcome of the case here.

I find it interesting that these 'strikes' are only against her and the findings of the case in her favour is not seen as a strike for Depp. .. He is still seen as the victim by you.

The assumption that this case's outcome clears Heard and places all the blame on Depp, which is evidenced by you branding any criticism of Heard as 'mysoginistic trolling'.

It doesn't matter if she was on trial or not, I've always referred to the evidence we know of, her own recorded words and the fact she's twisted enough to co-opt someone else's trauma for her own use, as well as the fact that it was Depp that reached out for help, not her.

Evidence is evidence, Kizzy, and to me it screams wanton emotional, mental and coercive abuse. You keep trying to make this about gender but the truth is my opinion would remain the same if the genders were flipped. Hell, I'm typically far more supporting of women then I am men which is why, when this story first came about, I was completely supportive of Heard and I believed her without question.

I don't think Johnny Depp is innocent, but I think if anyone is a victim of abuse and they lash out, it's not right, but it's understandable. As I said before, I wouldn't condemn a woman for doing the same so I can't condemn a man if that's the case because that would be hypocrisy.

[Kizzy]

The assumption that this case's outcome clears Heard and places all the blame on Depp, which is evidenced by you branding any criticism of Heard as 'mysoginistic trolling'.

It doesn't matter if she was on trial or not, I've always referred to the evidence we know of, her own recorded words and the fact she's twisted enough to co-opt someone else's trauma for her own use, as well as the fact that it was Depp that reached out for help, not her.

Evidence is evidence, Kizzy, and to me it screams wanton emotional, mental and coercive abuse. You keep trying to make this about gender but the truth is my opinion would remain the same if the genders were flipped. Hell, I'm typically far more supporting of women then I am men which is why, when this story first came about, I was completely supportive of Heard and I believed her without question.

I don't think Johnny Depp is innocent, but I think if anyone is a victim of abuse and they lash out, it's not right, but it's understandable. As I said before, I wouldn't condemn a woman for doing the same so I can't condemn a man if that's the case because that would be hypocrisy.
If you look at my posts in this thread I clearly haven't placed all the blame on one person in the relationship.
I don't keep trying to make this about gender, you have however by suggesting my feelings on rape would be different for men...you have no reason whatsoever to suggest that.
You've taken the accusations by one person and one comment used that as a basis to suggest all manner of character flaws as well as to absolve Depp of any culpability.

[Tom4784]

If you look at my posts in this thread I clearly haven't placed all the blame on one person in the relationship.
I don't keep trying to make this about gender, you have however by suggesting my feelings on rape would be different for men...you have no reason whatsoever to suggest that.
You've taken the accusations by one person and one comment used that as a basis to suggest all manner of character flaws as well as to absolve Depp of any culpability.

I have literally said that Johnny Depp is not blameless multiple times. Pay attention.

You do make it about gender though, you suggested having a negative opinion about Heard was mysoginistic trolling, you're downplaying her actions in this post and bypassing all the **** she's done.

I've never said Depp was without blame, but that I can't completely condemn him since I wouldn't do so if it was a woman in his shoes.

[Kizzy]

I have literally said that Johnny Depp is not blameless multiple times. Pay attention.

You do make it about gender though, you suggested having a negative opinion about Heard was mysoginistic trolling, you're downplaying her actions in this post and bypassing all the **** she's done.

I've never said Depp was without blame, but that I can't completely condemn him since I wouldn't do so if it was a woman in his shoes.

I am paying attention.. (by the way this derogatory language isn't doing you any favours here)
They are both to blame yes and there is evidence of shocking behaviour on both sides, I see that's acknowledged but only Heard is getting tarred as an evil psycho. .
You are likening Depp to a victim and that's just not the case..literally.

[Tom4784]

I am paying attention.. (by the way this derogatory language isn't doing you any favours here)
They are both to blame yes and there is evidence of shocking behaviour on both sides, I see that's acknowledged but only Heard is getting tarred as an evil psycho. .
You are likening Depp to a victim and that's just not the case..literally.

Leave the pearls out of it, Kizzy, claiming offense doesn't give your argument weight.

Neither are blameless but if you were being honest with yourself and saw the forest for the trees, it would be very difficult to both sides this given what we know of Amber Heard. Be real with me, Kizzy, would you honestly hold the same opinion you have for this case if the genders were reversed?

[Kizzy]

Leave the pearls out of it, Kizzy, claiming offense doesn't give your argument weight.

Neither are blameless but if you were being honest with yourself and saw the forest for the trees, it would be very difficult to both sides this given what we know of Amber Heard. Be real with me, Kizzy, would you honestly hold the same opinion you have for this case if the genders were reversed?

Again with the silly sexist comment, theres no weight to be had in this debate as we're not debating anything factual, this is my opinion...why would it need 'weight'?
I find your use of language to describe only one party in this case that as you admit are both guilty of abuse one sided and verging on what I would consider misogyny.
it's you obsessed with gender Dezzy not me. I would of course be the same but you accusing me of bias only serves to detract from your own here obviously.

[arista]

1324752676773658624

[Marsh.]

You are likening Depp to a victim and that's just not the case..literally.

Coming from the person calling any valid criticism of Heard "misogynistic".

[Kizzy]

Coming from the person calling any valid criticism of Heard "misogynistic".

Yes coming from me. The case found he was literally not the victim.
The criticism may be valid to you...however IN MY OPINION it isn't. I find the use of language in the posts misogynistic. If you don't agree/ like that let it be known, I don't care.

[Tom4784]

Again with the silly sexist comment, theres no weight to be had in this debate as we're not debating anything factual, this is my opinion...why would it need 'weight'?
I find your use of language to describe only one party in this case that as you admit are both guilty of abuse one sided and verging on what I would consider misogyny.
it's you obsessed with gender Dezzy not me. I would of course be the same but you accusing me of bias only serves to detract from your own here obviously.

I use the pearl necklace remark against anyone who clutches at offense as an argument, Parmnion, LT and a bunch of other male members can attest to that. Your latest attempt to paint me, of all people, as a sexist is as much of a failure as your other attempts.

Instead of flailing by screeching about how much of a sexist I am for not agreeing with you, how about you actually try to argue against what I'm saying for once instead of the 'no, u' response that is your last paragraph. It's childish and pathetic and it has no basis on anything, considering my whole argument is that my opinion would be the same regardless of gender since it's based on actions and evidence, while you screech about misogynistic trolling if people have a negative view of an abuser.

All in all, this is a pathetic attempt at a rebuttal by you, Kizzy. You ignore what I'm saying to push a narrative that has no bearing on my argument. Try actually reading what I'm saying for once instead of picking parts you can feign offence at for clout.

[Kizzy]

I use the pearl necklace remark against anyone who clutches at offense as an argument, Parmnion, LT and a bunch of other male members can attest to that. Your latest attempt to paint me, of all people, as a sexist is as much of a failure as your other attempts.

Instead of flailing by screeching about how much of a sexist I am for not agreeing with you, how about you actually try to argue against what I'm saying for once instead of the 'no, u' response that is your last paragraph. It's childish and pathetic and it has no basis on anything, considering my whole argument is that my opinion would be the same regardless of gender since it's based on actions and evidence, while you screech about misogynistic trolling if people have a negative view of an abuser.

All in all, this is a pathetic attempt at a rebuttal by you, Kizzy. You ignore what I'm saying to push a narrative that has no bearing on my argument. Try actually reading what I'm saying for once instead of picking parts you can feign offence to for clout.

I gave up at flailing and screeching.... I've made my point. I see you don't agree, that's not my issue.

[Tom4784]

I gave up at flailing and screeching.... I've made my point. I see you don't agree, that's not my issue.

You don't have a point aside from accusing people of being misogynistic if they don't happen to agree with you.

[Kizzy]

You don't have a point aside from accusing people of being misogynistic if they don't happen to agree with you.

Like them or not I've had points in this thread. It's not a direct accusation, it's an opinion based on my perception of some posts.
Whether anyone agrees with me or not is irrelevant.

[Tom4784]

Like them or not I've had points in this thread. It's not a direct accusation, it's an opinion based on my perception of some posts.
Whether anyone agrees with me or not is irrelevant.

Nah, you don't get to hide behind 'it's an opinion!', you threw baseless accusations around and now you're gonna have to deal with the fact you've been made to look foolish for it. You tried to silence criticism of Amber Heard by branding it misogynistic, you accused me of sexism simply because you are incapable of arguing against what I'm saying and you are simply not mature enough to admit it so you threw your toys out of your pram.

[Kizzy]

Nah, you don't get to hide behind 'it's an opinion!', you threw baseless accusations around and now you're gonna have to deal with the fact you've been made to look foolish for it. You tried to silence criticism of Amber Heard by branding it misogynistic, you accused me of sexism simply because you are incapable of arguing against what I'm saying and you are simply not mature enough to admit it so you threw your toys out of your pram.

I do, I get to voice my opinion on things as I see them. You becoming increasingly frustrated by that is not my fault.
I suggest you accept that's how I see it and move on.

[Marsh.]

Yes coming from me. The case found he was literally not the victim.
The criticism may be valid to you...however IN MY OPINION it isn't. I find the use of language in the posts misogynistic.

She says... without pointing out what exactly is misogynistic. Because it's not there and she got ahead of herself trying to act the feminist.

The case was entirely based on ONE article that featured in the Sun, it was NEVER a domestic abuse trial. For you to suggest it paints the entire story of their abusive relationship is disingenuous. Depp does not need to be a victim for me to say that Heard was not one either.

If you don't agree/ like that let it be known, I don't care.

Kind of sad that you have to be told over and over and over, I don't need you to care to respond to posts you make on a public forum. Are you processing that?
Respond, don't respond, care, don't care. It's not going to stop anyone posting when and where they see fit on a public forum.

You're welcome.

[Tom4784]

I do, I get to voice my opinion on things as I see them. You becoming increasingly frustrated by that is not my fault.
I suggest you accept that's how I see it and move on.

Nah, I'm gonna rubbish your claims because they are baseless and weak attempts at character assassination because you can't argue against what I'm saying. You might as well just admit it, it's quite sad how you are trying to duck and dodge responsibility for your own words. You only have to look at my history to know that I'm anything but a misogynist and you know this since we've been in SD for years. You're lashing out because you lack the maturity to admit that you can't argue against what I'm saying. Be more like Niamh who acknowledged we reached an impasse and left it at that rather than a child that throws insults and then tries to run away when they get called out on it.

You've also critically misunderstood the point of the trial which makes what little sense you've spoken in this topic irrelevant because you don't understand what was being tried in this case.

Making out that I'm getting frustrated isn't going to change the fact that you're being a troll, and a poor one at that.

[arista]

Sadly 'wife beater' tag on his life
is going to stay there.
Because the Sun Newspaper has Won.

[Nicky91]

https://twitter.com/daisylandq/status/1325026847164407809

indeed, she is a vile psychopath

[Kizzy]

She says... without pointing out what exactly is misogynistic. Because it's not there and she got ahead of herself trying to act the feminist.

The case was entirely based on ONE article that featured in the Sun, it was NEVER a domestic abuse trial. For you to suggest it paints the entire story of their abusive relationship is disingenuous. Depp does not need to be a victim for me to say that Heard was not one either.



Kind of sad that you have to be told over and over and over, I don't need you to care to respond to posts you make on a public forum. Are you processing that?
Respond, don't respond, care, don't care. It's not going to stop anyone posting when and where they see fit on a public forum.

You're welcome.
I've said many times, you're just not listening.
What's sad is this continual baiting from you, it's getting so I expect it in every thread and you rarely disappoint.

[Kizzy]

Nah, I'm gonna rubbish your claims because they are baseless and weak attempts at character assassination because you can't argue against what I'm saying. You might as well just admit it, it's quite sad how you are trying to duck and dodge responsibility for your own words. You only have to look at my history to know that I'm anything but a misogynist and you know this since we've been in SD for years. You're lashing out because you lack the maturity to admit that you can't argue against what I'm saying. Be more like Niamh who acknowledged we reached an impasse and left it at that rather than a child that throws insults and then tries to run away when they get called out on it.

You've also critically misunderstood the point of the trial which makes what little sense you've spoken in this topic irrelevant because you don't understand what was being tried in this case.

Making out that I'm getting frustrated isn't going to change the fact that you're being a troll, and a poor one at that.
I haven't mentioned who or what was being tried...you projected that misunderstanding onto me.

It's OK for you to assassinate my character though clearly?
I can and have argued against the use of language used to describe heard in this thread, not once did I personally accuse you of anything.

Im a troll now, I make an observation on the adjectives used in a thread and that makes me a troll...you do realise how silly that sounds?

[Marsh.]

I've said many times, you're just not listening.
What's sad is this continual baiting from you, it's getting so I expect it in every thread and you rarely disappoint.

Try reading before replying. I never denied you'd said it many times. In fact, that was the basis of my point.

You continually ignore what's been said to invent your own version and argue a point nobody made. Bore the **** off.

[Tom4784]

I haven't mentioned who or what was being tried...you projected that misunderstanding onto me.

It's OK for you to assassinate my character though clearly?
I can and have argued against the use of language used to describe heard in this thread, not once did I personally accuse you of anything.

Im a troll now, I make an observation on the adjectives used in a thread and that makes me a troll...you do realise how silly that sounds?

I'm not inventing **** and throwing it at you, you've branded me a misogynist for no good reason, I'm just responding to what you are saying, I'm not assassinating your character, I'm just noting that you haven't really said anything but accusation after accusation and that's telling of how little you have to add to the conversation.

Also you did brand me misogynist for the pearl necklace line, a line plenty of people know I use against anyone who it applies to, gender is irrelevant. Do keep up.

The bold sentence is peak irony considering you tried to make out that any criticism of Amber Heard was misogynistic trolling. The difference is what you are doing now is trolling. Criticising Amber Heard is not.

[Kizzy]

I'm not inventing **** and throwing it at you, you've branded me a misogynist for no good reason, I'm just responding to what you are saying, I'm not assassinating your character, I'm just noting that you haven't really said anything but accusation after accusation and that's telling of how little you have to add to the conversation.

Also you did brand me misogynist for the pearl necklace line, a line plenty of people know I use against anyone who it applies to, gender is irrelevant. Do keep up.

The bold sentence is peak irony considering you tried to make out that any criticism of Amber Heard was misogynistic trolling. The difference is what you are doing now is trolling. Criticising Amber Heard is not.

Nope I felt the comment you made to me was sexist not misogynistic, again you're projecting. I haven't called you anything or accused you of anything Dezzy... I can see you've created a narrative where I have but if you read back to my actual comment you'll see I haven't.
All I referred to was the descriptive terms applied to one party and not the other in the thread. Youve taken exception to that and made some rude unwarranted remarks.
As I've said that was and still is my opinion, you don't like that, but I'm not changing my view here whether you agree with my original criticism within the thread or not it's not my issue, you angling it as a personal troll attack is more than a reach.

[Kizzy]

Try reading before replying. I never denied you'd said it many times. In fact, that was the basis of my point.

You continually ignore what's been said to invent your own version and argue a point nobody made. Bore the **** off.

Do you copy and paste the same comments for the drama... I've seen and heard this line from you on multiple threads to many posters.

[Marsh.]

Do you copy and paste the same comments for the drama... I've seen and heard this line from you on multiple threads to many posters.

Did you really just take what I said to you and try to use it back at me? :joker:

Go away, Kizzy. Go and invent more bullsh*t to act righteous about.

[Kizzy]

Did you really just take what I said to you and try to use it back at me? :joker:

Go away, Kizzy. Go and invent more bullsh*t to act righteous about.

How about you stop trying to tell me what to do, I'll post as, where and when I see fit to.

[Marsh.]

How about you stop trying to tell me what to do, I'll post as, where and when I see fit to.

Me caring?

[Kizzy]

Forgive the source but...yeah.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-8925441/amp/Johnny-Depps-fans-launch-Twitter-war-Amber-Heard.html

[Marsh.]

You're accusing people in this thread of being misogynistic and instead of having a backbone and backing up that point with substance, you post a Daily Mail article highlighting someone telling Heard to "burn in hell" on twitter?

Ok.

[Kizzy]

Ah my little raincloud of doom is back.
Never accused anyone personally of anything if you care to look back ..or don't again, I'm not bothered.
My hope was the abuse would lessen after the case, it hasn't it's got worse.
Much like your trolling.

[Marsh.]

Ah my little raincloud of doom is back.
...

Much like your trolling.

How embarrassing for you.


Never accused anyone personally of anything if you care to look back ..or don't again, I'm not bothered.
My hope was the abuse would lessen after the case, it hasn't it's got worse.

Of course you didn't accuse people personally, that would require you to backup your statements with some actual substance and evidence. But you won't do that, either because you're blindly defending "the woman" just because so are clinging to anything to find fault with her detractors or you don't like having your opinion challenged with facts. Probably both.

You hoped which abuse would lessen? I can pull up numerous examples of Johnny Depp being vilified on twitter before and after the trial. The difference is, I'm not blindly trying to represent either of them as "the" victim in this situation.

Heard doesn't become unaccountable for her abuses because she is a woman, or because her former husband was abusive himself. That works both ways. It's called being rational.

Calling her abusive because she herself is guilty of abusive behaviour is not misogynistic, no matter how much you love victim mentality, as evidenced by your reaction to anyone daring to quote you on a forum.

[Kizzy]

How embarrassing for you.



Of course you didn't accuse people personally, that would require you to backup your statements with some actual substance and evidence. But you won't do that, either because you're blindly defending "the woman" just because so are clinging to anything to find fault with her detractors or you don't like having your opinion challenged with facts. Probably both.

You hoped which abuse would lessen? I can pull up numerous examples of Johnny Depp being vilified on twitter before and after the trial. The difference is, I'm not blindly trying to represent either of them as "the" victim in this situation.

Heard doesn't become unaccountable for her abuses because she is a woman, or because her former husband was abusive himself. That works both ways. It's called being rational.

Calling her abusive because she herself is guilty of abusive behaviour is not misogynistic, no matter how much you love victim mentality, as evidenced by your reaction to anyone daring to quote you on a forum.

There's nothing rational about death threats...or your reaction to my comments in this thread.

I might just let you both argue yourselves up your own axis because I made my point on page 2. I did and still do find the language used to describe Amber Heard misogynistic.

[arista]

Forgive the source but...yeah.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-8925441/amp/Johnny-Depps-fans-launch-Twitter-war-Amber-Heard.html


Yes Sometimes it's all you can use

[Marsh.]

There's nothing rational about death threats...

Nobody said death threats were rational.
Conflating a point about comments you labelled misogynistic in this thread with a separate point about twitter comments to distract the conversation is another attempt to invent a point nobody made. Stick to things that exist, not what you're making up.


I might just let you both argue yourselves up your own axis because I made my point on page 2. I did and still do find the language used to describe Amber Heard misogynistic.

You're the only one arguing.
You didn't make any point on page 2. You've continually avoided making any point at all because you can't admit your original comment was simply wrong.

[Kizzy]

If you can't see a correlation that's your issue.

I voiced my opinion on page 2 it's not your place to suggest my opinion is wrong.

Keep trying to discredit my view if you must, I'm not sure what you're hoping to achieve here though.
I'm beginning to think ts had a point, there's something a bit MRA about this now.

[Tom4784]

Nope I felt the comment you made to me was sexist not misogynistic, again you're projecting. I haven't called you anything or accused you of anything Dezzy... I can see you've created a narrative where I have but if you read back to my actual comment you'll see I haven't.
All I referred to was the descriptive terms applied to one party and not the other in the thread. Youve taken exception to that and made some rude unwarranted remarks.
As I've said that was and still is my opinion, you don't like that, but I'm not changing my view here whether you agree with my original criticism within the thread or not it's not my issue, you angling it as a personal troll attack is more than a reach.

The cognitive dissonance in this post...

Making out that I'm rude when you branded me sexist and anyone that has a negative opinion of Amber Heard a mysoginistic troll, while getting offended at me accusing you of trolling is quite the lack of self awareness on your part. The fact that you're crying about my opinion while being all like 'it's MY OPINION!!!' is just beautifully unaware.

I had no issue with you until you decided to go full troll and call a bunch of people mysoginistic trolls and then brand me a sexist for a comment you know FULL WELL that I don't use as a gender specific thing. You're just trolling, you don't like being challenged and so you are trying to be the victim which is why, not long ago, you decided to cut down a multi paragraph post of mine to the one sentence so you could claim offense. You're just pretending to be offended to write off posts you can't argue with and no amount of twisting the narrative will twist the truth, Kizzy.

Come talk to me when you've stopped being a troll and are actually interested in arguing against the points I've made regarding Heard, because at the moment, you are no longer worth my time to respond to. I'm gonna be the bigger person and allow you to have the last word you so desperately want.

[Kizzy]

The gaslighting is real...
If you don't want to be accused of sexism don't make sexist remarks to me personally. Again I did not accuse you personally of misogyny in that initial comment, as you've now realised, it was a generalised view of how I interpreted the language used in not just this thread but others to describe Heard. It's replicated on social media too so to suggest I've seen it on here isn't really that surprising is it?

You've not been the bigger person, you've been offensive and intolerant to my viewpoint for the past few pages.

[Marsh.]

If you can't see a correlation that's your issue.

I voiced my opinion on page 2 it's not your place to suggest my opinion is wrong.

Keep trying to discredit my view if you must, I'm not sure what you're hoping to achieve here though.
I'm beginning to think ts had a point, there's something a bit MRA about this now.

More invention. You never had a point. You never made a correlation.

You made a blanket insult that doesn't fit because you're blindly supporting a woman for being a woman.

I don't need to discredit you, you've discredited yourself.

[Marsh.]

The cognitive dissonance in this post...

Making out that I'm rude when you branded me sexist and anyone that has a negative opinion of Amber Heard a mysoginistic troll, while getting offended at me accusing you of trolling is quite the lack of self awareness on your part. The fact that you're crying about my opinion while being all like 'it's MY OPINION!!!' is just beautifully unaware.

I had no issue with you until you decided to go full troll and call a bunch of people mysoginistic trolls and then brand me a sexist for a comment you know FULL WELL that I don't use as a gender specific thing. You're just trolling, you don't like being challenged and so you are trying to be the victim which is why, not long ago, you decided to cut down a multi paragraph post of mine to the one sentence so you could claim offense. You're just pretending to be offended to write off posts you can't argue with and no amount of twisting the narrative will twist the truth, Kizzy.

Come talk to me when you've stopped being a troll and are actually interested in arguing against the points I've made regarding Heard, because at the moment, you are no longer worth my time to respond to. I'm gonna be the bigger person and allow you to have the last word you so desperately want.

:clap1:

[Kizzy]

More invention. You never had a point. You never made a correlation.

You made a blanket insult that doesn't fit because you're blindly supporting a woman for being a woman.

I don't need to discredit you, you've discredited yourself.

There is one, the language used here on this forum is, imo very similar to the abuse I've language used on twitter. Ive noticed this for a while from multiple users so no fingers pointed at any one poster.
I'm not supporting anyone, just saying things as I see them. You don't get to discredit my view on any topic Marsh.

[Marsh.]

There is one, the language used here on this forum is, imo very similar to the abuse I've language used on twitter. Ive noticed this for a while from multiple users so no fingers pointed at any one poster.
I'm not supporting anyone, just saying things as I see them. You don't get to discredit my view on any topic Marsh.

Anybody can discredit any view on any topic that they see fit, if they have the factual evidence to back it up.

Nobody can discredit yourself more than you, since you yet again have refrained from sharing any view at all because you don't like to have that opinion displayed for anyone to respond to or present you with factual evidence to the contrary. Which makes its presence on a discussion forum fairly baffling.

"I've seen misogyny on posts on this forum, but I'm not telling you where, who by or exactly what it says. It's just misogyny just because it's about a woman"... is a nothing statement that muddies the waters of the conversation and makes you seem like you can't handle people commenting fairly on her actions, as well as on Johnny Depp's. You need to work on that double standard.

[Kizzy]

You can discredit fact...not opinion.
I get to choose what I think marsh.
What 'evidence' is there that any of the vile insults levelled at heard are facts?... none. It's all heresay at best and at worst misogyny.
There has been no balance in the response in this way to Depp's behaviour that I have seen to equal the outpouring of bile for heard, I see that my view on thi's fair ties you in knots but it won't be changing.
As I've stated many times I had and have no feelings towards one party or the other so to claim any double standard is pointless. Again there is nothing fair about abuse.

[Marsh.]

You can discredit fact...not opinion.


You haven't shared an opinion. That would require you to provide a substantive statement.

Calling posts in this thread misogynistic is not an opinion Kizzy. It can only be true or false. Either comments are misogynistic or they're not.

Negative opinions or comments about a woman does not make those comments inherently misogynistic anymore than negative comments about a black person are racist.

But... we can't really discuss the merits of your comment since you continually refuse to back the statement up. Making it a misguided attempt at shutting down views that you don't agree with.


I get to choose what I think marsh.


Never said otherwise. Think what you want. Put those thoughts on a forum... people will respond. Baffling how that needs to be pointed out to you so often.


What 'evidence' is there that any of the vile insults levelled at heard are facts?... none. It's all heresay at best and at worst misogyny.

Which "vile insults"? If you want me to answer that question you need to actually back it up with substance. I can't provide factual evidence to support something that you keep refusing to show us. If you mean the death threat as posted in that Daily Mail article, I'm not sure what you want me to say. Death threats are wrong? Well, duh, obviously.


There has been no balance in the response in this way to Depp's behaviour that I have seen to equal the outpouring of bile for heard, I see that my view on thi's fair ties you in knots but it won't be changing.

It does not tie me in any knots. That's basically a statement that you haven't "seen" the bile for Depp. It literally means.... nothing.

If you want to see, I would start with the abuse he got when WB originally refused to back down on his casting in Fantastic Beasts back in 2018 and the abuse he got during the libel trial. A lot of it based on facts, a lot of it based on gossip and a lot of it coming from basic "celebrity twitter trolling" that attack anyone in the news, that you assume only women are the victim of.

Conflating twitter trolling to people's considered and rational opinion on Amber Heard's actions is just completely disingenuous.


As I've stated many times I had and have no feelings towards one party or the other so to claim any double standard is pointless. Again there is nothing fair about abuse.

You clearly have since you have no issue with Depp being called an abuser but take issue with Heard being called the same, despite evidence for both.

Shouting "misogyny" doesn't change anything. It distracts from the topic of the discussion.

[Kizzy]

Wow.. you really are salty about this aren't you.

I'm going to indulge you one last time, on are you ready here is my statement...
All of which has been said in response to these attacks many times.

'I ( kizzy) believe that some of the language used in this thread and other threads based on this topic have expressed phrases and insults that I personally consider misogynistic. They are in my opinion reminiscent of the abusive comment regularly seen on twitter. For that reason I object to them and made a point of making reference to them here in this thread.

Will that do? You can keep the rest of the post I'm not intwrested in you attempting to unpack why you feel I'm wrong for holding my view as I've said they won't change.

As for your 'which vile insults' if you don't see any there's little point even having a conversation, this is a very subjective issue therefore I won't apologise for finding some comments vile as you are not of the opinion any are obviously.

Should I be a lone voice in finding the criticism of heard veering into misogynistic abuse across all platforms I might wonder if I'm perhaps being oversensitive. .but I'm not so I don't. They are warranted and justified.
In fact every day they get a little more so.

[Marsh.]

Wow.. you really are salty about this aren't you.

No. I'm engaging in a discussion on a forum. You seem to have real trouble with that. Why you feel the need to post on a forum when you take such issue with anyone commenting on what you post is utterly bizarre.


Are you ready here is my statement...
All of which has been said in response to these attacks many times.

'I ( kizzy) believe that some of the language used in this thread and other threads based on this topic have expressed phrases and insults that I personally consider misogynistic. They are in my opinion reminiscent of the abusive comment regularly seen on twitter. For that reason I object to them and made a point of making reference to them here in this thread.

Why are you repeating? Clearly, and yet again, illustrating that you can't follow a conversation. Claiming there's misogyny without any actual reference to the misogyny or any kind of evidence is an utterly meaningless statement that adds nothing of worth to a thread.

You make wild accusations about other posters, don't back them up and then start victimising yourself (Attacks? Really? And what would you call all of your personal insult?) when you get called out on it. Ridiculous behaviour from a grown woman.

You made no "reference" to any comments. In fact, that is exactly what you've avoided.

Will that do? You can keep the rest of the post I'm not intwrested in you attempting to unpack why you feel I'm wrong for holding my view as I've said they won't change.

More invention. I never said you're wrong for holding that view, I said you are blatantly denying to substantiate that view because you don't want anybody to be able to respond to it. You want to be able to say what you please and not get any response or anyone to prove it to be wrong.

If there's misogyny, call it out, show it for what it is. But you can't because "misogyny" is today's buzzword that you're using to throw at those you disagree with because you have no actual points to make in response to their comments/arguments. You do it in most threads. Tomorrow's buzzword will be something else. It's disingenuous, it's obnoxious and it's transparent. As I said earlier, the only person discrediting your silly claims is you.

I could call you a racist and then spend an entire thread denying to provide you proof of said racism and call it "my subjective view that cannot be wrong". That's how ridiculous it is.


As for your 'which vile insults' if you don't see any there's little point even having a conversation, this is a very subjective issue therefore I won't apologise for finding some comments vile as you are not of the opinion any are obviously. .

I can't really share the opinion or disagree with that opinion whilst you continue to deny sharing the posts. Which you won't, because you want to label people who disagree with you all kinds of things, without being challenged on it.


Should I be a lone voice in finding the criticism of heard veering into misogynistic abuse across all platforms I might wonder if I'm perhaps being oversensitive. .but I'm not so I don't. They are warranted and justified.
In fact every day they get a little more so.

Again, conflating social media comments with accusations you threw at specific posts on this very forum is a poor distraction technique. You were asked to illustrate exactly what you meant and the best you provided was a Daily Mail article highlighting death threats from twitter.

You've been called out for bullsh*tting and are continually moving the goalposts to avoid it.

I'm going to indulge you one last time

If only you would. You haven't indulged the discussion once. You made an accusation because you can't bear to actually discuss a topic. Then get defensive that it's your thoughts and no one is allowed to talk about them, comment on them or disagree with them. :mad: Why bother being here? :shrug:

Done. I won't bother reading anymore posts of yours in this thread, you have nothing of worth to add.

[Kizzy]

I'd like to know why my responses to pages and pages of insults has been removed? Because I said that some of the responses in these threads sound like Twitter abuse?.. They do.
What you are engaging in now is abusive.. 'called out' for bull****ting? Who are you to call out how I interpret posts?
I could list your offensive trolling but I can be bothered maybe tomorrow.

[Nicky91]

https://twitter.com/DailyMailCeleb/status/1337019939304124416

[Marsh.]

Good for them and good for Johnny.

[Nicky91]

https://twitter.com/DailyMailCeleb/status/1348117373333680129

well charitable organisations will never see that money lol, she never had the intent to donate, this dumb gold digging wench (her plan all along was to keep all of 7 million i think)

[Mystic Mock]

Murdoch definitely has a bad habit of getting himself into legal trouble doesn't he?

Regardless his been proven innocent for once so fair enough in this case.

[Mystic Mock]

The gaslighting is real...
If you don't want to be accused of sexism don't make sexist remarks to me personally. Again I did not accuse you personally of misogyny in that initial comment, as you've now realised, it was a generalised view of how I interpreted the language used in not just this thread but others to describe Heard. It's replicated on social media too so to suggest I've seen it on here isn't really that surprising is it?

You've not been the bigger person, you've been offensive and intolerant to my viewpoint for the past few pages.

Tbf I think that Heard and Depp haven't exactly covered themselves in glory here, so I'm not shocked at the abuse that either would receive from people.

Amber Heard I remember being a very good actress very early on in this case though, so I can imagine that some people feel hurt that she essentially had played them up to that point.

[Kizzy]

Tbf I think that Heard and Depp haven't exactly covered themselves in glory here, so I'm not shocked at the abuse that either would receive from people.

Amber Heard I remember being a very good actress very early on in this case though, so I can imagine that some people feel hurt that she essentially had played them up to that point.

Think you used the wrong quote there mock.

[Vanessa]

I don't think Johnny got a fair trial.
Heard has lied several times under oath.
I sure hope she doesn't get away with it.

[Denver]

I don't understand why people paint Heard as an angelic victim when there is evidence that she was just as bad

[Tom4784]

I don't understand why people paint Heard as an angelic victim when there is evidence that she was just as bad

I think time will, unfortunately for her next victim, will prove her to be the monster we know her to be. I can only hope that it doesn't end in tragedy for whoever she targets next.

[Nicky91]

I think time will, unfortunately for her next victim, will prove her to be the monster we know her to be. I can only hope that it doesn't end in tragedy for whoever she targets next.

whenever she is in need for some money again i guess, whenever that 7 million is gone on stuff


golddiggers like her will never stop at just one victim, maybe she'll aim bit higher next time, some random billionaire or something, where she can get more money out of

[Mystic Mock]

Think you used the wrong quote there mock.

My point being that Dezzy and Marsh are probably more upset with Heard's behaviour because she had tricked a lot of people into believing that she was an innocent victim in the whole thing when it turns out that she was anything but innocent.

That's not to say that Depp is innocent either, but he is probably getting let off the hook a lot more by some of the posters on TIBB and Twitter because he never pretended to be a delicate little flower.