USA Troops to leave Afghanistan by 11 September (2 Suicide bomber outside airport)

[The Slim Reaper]

It's not beyond comprehension that Western citizens can be active in Middle East affairs without a malign motive and with a genuine interest in positive change in the region

I completely agree; the arms industry ain't it though.

[Nicky91]

why is the Taliban back in control a bad thing though? :shrug:


i mean they really seem to be wanting to do things differently than last time around (1996-2001)


more diplomacy, more working together to solve any issues

[bots]

why is the Taliban back in control a bad thing though? :shrug:


i mean they really seem to be wanting to do things differently than last time around (1996-2001)


more diplomacy, more working together to solve any issues

no they are not. They have already executed innocent people

[MTVN]

So what are the allegations against QinetiQ? From looking them up most of their products are in things like surveillance and radar technology. One of their major products is used to detect and disable roadside bombs for instance. How many lives has that saved if we're throwing around accusations of them being culpable for murder?

[Cherie]

one of the things the taliban ban is music. I couldn't live in a world without music

and keeping pets, just listened to a father whose son died out there and he had a buddy dog that they managed to bring back, they now have an animal charity with many female vets with 98 dogs and 88 cats and they hope to bring them all back to the UK

[Nicky91]

the past is in the past, let's just focus on the present and maybe we should give their plan a chance, to solve most issues in the country

the enemy of my enemy is my friend is a very famous saying


and i fear the rise of new terror groups more than the taliban, so i'd say it is a good thing they want strong international diplomatic alliances

[Niamh.]

the past is in the past, let's just focus on the present and maybe we should give their plan a chance, to solve most issues in the country

the enemy of my enemy is my friend is a very famous saying


and i fear the rise of new terror groups more than the taliban, so i'd say it is a good thing they want strong international diplomatic alliances

I'm sure all the women in Afghanistan are resting easy........

[Nicky91]

yes ok the anti women's rights is only thing i disagree with them, and also anti-music, anti-pets

but tbh no country in the world is perfect :laugh:



if better international relations can prevent new threats like Al Qaeda or even worse ISIL, then yes we should recognize them as new leaders of afghanistan and we should accept their terms

[MTVN]

Anyone heard anything from Biden yet

[Niamh.]

yes ok the anti women's rights is only thing i disagree with them, and also anti-music, anti-pets

but tbh no country in the world is perfect :laugh:



if better international relations can prevent new threats like Al Qaeda or even worse ISIL, then yes we should recognize them as new leaders of afghanistan and we should accept their terms

I mean to make that statement with the word "only" and a laughing emoji? I don't even know how to respond to that.....

[bots]

Anyone heard anything from Biden yet

he is on holiday at camp david apparently. Really showing his caring side

[The Slim Reaper]

So what are the allegations against QinetiQ? From looking them up most of their products are in things like surveillance and radar technology. One of their major products is used to detect and disable roadside bombs for instance. How many lives has that saved if we're throwing around accusations of them being culpable for murder?

Their share price is up again today, and it's not because they are a benign influence disabling road side bombs. They know full well what the Taliban back in Afghanistan will mean for their industry. They use some very coded language to describe their tactical exercises that I'll see if I can dig out for you (can't remember where I read it a while back but remember that even companies like blackwater don't describe themselves as murderers in their own literature), and it's a company that's achieved it's massive financial successes on the backs of the Afghani people.
They're war profiteers.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/qinetiq-soars-on-afghanistan-contract-success-qdcw2w603w9

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E86OrQQWUAUtTw7?format=jpg&name=medium

[Oliver_W]

I guess the Taliban aren't actually any different from any other islamic "government", but they won't have a bloodless takeover.

[Alf]

Anyone heard anything from Biden yetdcM_HXO2EYg

[arista]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/08/16/16/46738573-9897201-image-a-88_1629128037040.jpg

Yesterday making the Airport close down.

[joeysteele]

yes ok the anti women's rights is only thing i disagree with them, and also anti-music, anti-pets

but tbh no country in the world is perfect :laugh:



if better international relations can prevent new threats like Al Qaeda or even worse ISIL, then yes we should recognize them as new leaders of afghanistan and we should accept their terms

Actually, I think even just the anti Women's rights should be why they should NEVER be in power anywhere.

[arista]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/08/16/12/46729839-9897611-image-m-17_1629111597855.jpg

[arista]

Dominic Raab Foreign Secretary
has come back from his Cyprus Holiday
Back in Westminster.

So Labour can stop moaning, now.

[arista]

President Biden is due to talk Live at 8:45PM UK time

[arista]

BBCnews showing protests outside the White House

And Biden is to talk today, he has cut his holiday.

[arista]

Dominic Raab Foreign Secretary
claims he will hold the Taliban to account?


So what
as if they care what he says?

[Cherie]

Already all the boutiques, beauty salons and hairdressers have been closed and any female images painted over ...

Sheila Fogerty had to deal with a particularly nasty man on her phone in today who supported what was going on

[Beso]

People are clinging to the us military planes as they try and take off.

They are taking off and people are falling from them.


Great work joe...really, well done there sir..

[arista]

Biden is now Live

all media.

[joeysteele]

Not impressed with this speech at all from Biden.

I think he has acted unwisely on this and he is wrong.
Air power should have been left in place to help the Afghan forces on the ground.
In my view.

No, Biden is making a poor account of himself and his decision to act so quickly to enact his predecessor's previous set up policy.

[arista]

20 min speech
But No Questions

[bots]

what biden is saying is valid, however, he is boiling it down to simplistic propaganda. The usa have had years to make sure that things were wound down in a staged manner that didn't create an almighty mess

[joeysteele]

20 min speech
But No Questions

I felt he came across as rather callous in his wording.
Very disappointed in him.

[thesheriff443]

I felt he came across as rather callous in his wording.
Very disappointed in him.

If the Afghan soldiers won’t fight for their own country why should people expect Americans soldiers to fight and die

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/4C27/production/_119959491_metro-nc.png

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/E867/production/_119959495_guardian-nc.png

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/2517/production/_119959490_ftfront-nc.png

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/2643/production/_119959790_express-nc.png

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/10F77/production/_119959496_thesun-nc.png

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/9A47/production/_119959493_telegraph-nc.png

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/15D97/production/_119959498_dailymail-nc.png

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/7337/production/_119959492_i-newspaper-nc.png

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/13687/production/_119959497_times-nc.png

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/181EB/production/_119959789_mirror-nc.png

[arista]

NewsnightHD BBC2 last night
spent the whole show 44mins on Afghanistan.

Women and Girls fear their Future.

Of course the Taliban has already stopped Schools and University's
for all Females, they reported.



https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1427374991201472517/NBNz-eRb?format=jpg&name=small
That one USA Flight Military Plane
of over packed with around 800 Afghan people,
yesterday (Mirror Front Page)
had to take off.
Even though they were hanging on the
outside, of that plane,
Men were dropping thousands of feet to their death.

Something Biden would not speak about.

[arista]

1427298872599195649

[arista]

1427439231203528709

[bots]

we can be critical of the usa for the manner of their exit from the country, but i have to say, the stakes for families were huge, 100's of thousands of local men were equipped to fight and yet they didn't bother. If you value something highly, if your family are at risk, you fight to protect it and the men just didn't do that. They have to take personal responsibility for that.

[arista]

we can be critical of the usa for the manner of their exit from the country, but i have to say, the stakes for families were huge, 100's of thousands of local men were equipped to fight and yet they didn't bother. If you value something highly, if your family are at risk, you fight to protect it and the men just didn't do that. They have to take personal responsibility for that.


But why would they Fight
for a Corrupt Afghan Government?

[bots]

But why would they Fight
for a Corrupt Afghan Government?

to protect their woman and children ... this is their families .... if my family were threatened, i would be out protecting them ... most people would

[arista]

to protect their woman and children ... this is their families .... if my family were threatened, i would be out protecting them ... most people would


But the Power before the Taliban
was corrupt, they would never trust them.

[arista]

1427506852842119169

[bots]

But the Power before the Taliban
was corrupt, they would never trust them.

no, i think the majority of men in the country are pretty happy with the taliban and that's why they didn't fight

[arista]

no, i think the majority of men in the country are pretty happy with the taliban and that's why they didn't fight


Very Possible.

[Cherie]

no, i think the majority of men in the country are pretty happy with the taliban and that's why they didn't fight

I agree with that to an extent, I don’t think all the force were committed to keeping the Taliban out, and then there was an issue with not being paid for some time, plus the abrupt departure of any the Army it created a perfect storm

[joeysteele]

If the Afghan soldiers won’t fight for their own country why should people expect Americans soldiers to fight and die

They needed the confidence of still having the air power.

Why were we there in the first place???
President Bush DID make this about Nation building once he got there.

I care about the terrifying fear and already losses of life which I'll guess far more to come of the civilians.
I know on here, losses of others lives don't matter to some.

Have you listened to those veterans of serving in Afghanistan who are near all saying they feel even betrayed, their injuries,the losses of their comrades lives being for nothing.

Or do their opinions not matter to you either.
I mean they are the ones who got to know the area, the people and served there.

We've contributed to the mess of this withdrawal which was badly planned, monitored terribly despite advancement of technology.

The government in place,ground forces still supported with air power.
That could have been the ideal way to begin leaving.
Not just walk away as the USA and UK did.

[bots]

germany and france have already said they are not going to take a load of refugees, turkey is building a big wall, so i think it's going to be different this time round

[Nicky91]

The Netherlands will attempt to remove hundreds of people from Afghanistan in the next few days after the Taliban seized power in Kabul.

President Ashraf Ghani fled the country on Sunday evening as Taliban troops entered the presidential palace and western countries, including the United States, abandoned their embassies.

At least five people were killed in chaotic scenes at Kabul airport as crowds of Afghans filled the runway and tried to climb on board moving planes in a desperate attempt to flee the country. US troops fired warning shots and deployed helicopters to try to clear the tarmac, after taking over operational control of the airport.

Caretaker prime minister Mark Rutte said the Netherlands was working to repatriate embassy staff and safeguard Afghan support workers, such as interpreters. Some Dutch citizens earlier flew out of Kabul on board a Ukrainian plane along with Croatian, Belarusian and Afghan nationals, Ukraine’s foreign minister Dmytro Kuleba said.

‘[The situation in] Afghanistan is highly unpredictable and very concerning,’ Rutte said. ‘We are doing all we can to get embassy staff, interpreters and others who deserve our protection out of there, but it is extremely complicated.’

Dutch aid worker Louis Marijnissen told NOS that the speed of the Taliban offensive had taken people in Kabul by surprise. ‘So far people have been following the orders of the leaders and Taliban fighters don’t seem to be taking revenge on the population,’ said Marijnissen, who works for Johanniter International Assistance.

Marijnissen said he was hoping to leave on a Dutch evacuation flight, but was unsure if he would be able to get to the airport, a mile from his home. ‘We don’t know how the Taliban fighters [at the checkpoints] will react,’ he said.

The first Dutch military aircraft left for Kabul on Monday morning, but it was unclear when they would be able to land because of the situation on the ground.

Another Dutch aid worker, Martine Langerak, managed to leave Kabul on a British flight on Sunday night through her organisation Afghanaid. Planes were able to take off and land on the military runway, she said. ‘But on the other side it’s complete chaos. Lots of people are trying to leave the country, but there is no control at the airport.’

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2021/08/dutch-military-planes-fly-out-to-kabul-to-begin-repatriation-mission/

[MTVN]

If the Afghan soldiers won’t fight for their own country why should people expect Americans soldiers to fight and die

The last American to die in Afghanistan was in February 2020

The Afghan army has lost 40,000 troops in the last few years fighting the Taliban

Biden making out the only choice was between a prolonged bloody conflict and this **** up is totally false, they could have maintained a modest presence there just the same way they still have a presence in South Korea without being involved in war there. That speech last night was one of the most shameful a president has ever made - no mention of the sacrifices made by Afghans, no sympathy for their plight, no acknowledgement of the efforts made by American allies and other countries. Just a lot of passing the buck and blaming everyone else. Then to top it all off he refuses to take any questions and then goes straight back to Camp David to continue his holiday!

[bots]

The last American to die in Afghanistan was in February 2020

The Afghan army has lost 40,000 troops in the last few years fighting the Taliban

Biden making out the only choice was between a prolonged bloody conflict and this **** up is totally false, they could have maintained a modest presence there just the same way they still have a presence in South Korea without being involved in war there. That speech last night was one of the most shameful a president has ever made - no mention of the sacrifices made by Afghans, no sympathy for their plight, no acknowledgement of the efforts made by American allies and other countries. Just a lot of passing the buck and blaming everyone else. Then to top it all off he refuses to take any questions and then goes straight back to Camp David to continue his holiday!

yes, the points he made were factually correct, but it was very selective to suit his own propaganda. He has support from the american people at the moment, but if there are any subsequent terror attacks in the usa that will quickly change

[arista]

Germany and France have already said they are not going to take a load of refugees, Turkey is building a big wall, so i think it's going to be different this time round

Yes times have changed.

[arista]

Taliban have stated their own Nationals should not leave
their great country.

Well if they Worked for the USA and UK
or other nations, they
were against the enemy, the Taliban
and if that is found out
they could be Killed.

[thesheriff443]

The last American to die in Afghanistan was in February 2020

The Afghan army has lost 40,000 troops in the last few years fighting the Taliban

Biden making out the only choice was between a prolonged bloody conflict and this **** up is totally false, they could have maintained a modest presence there just the same way they still have a presence in South Korea without being involved in war there. That speech last night was one of the most shameful a president has ever made - no mention of the sacrifices made by Afghans, no sympathy for their plight, no acknowledgement of the efforts made by American allies and other countries. Just a lot of passing the buck and blaming everyone else. Then to top it all off he refuses to take any questions and then goes straight back to Camp David to continue his holiday!

America had an agreement with the taliban to withdraw that’s why the American troops have not been killed, what do you think would happen if America went back on that agreement? American troops would be killed at every opportunity

Yes, 40 thousand Afghan troops have died, Afghanistan has a population of 38 million

Will you go and fight for the Afghan people because that’s what you expect Americans to do.

American troops have been in Afghanistan for 20 years and it’s made no difference

[Nicky91]

America had an agreement with the taliban to withdraw that’s why the American troops have not been killed, what do you think would happen if America went back on that agreement? American troops would be killed at every opportunity

Yes, 40 thousand Afghan troops have died, Afghanistan has a population of 38 million

Will you go and fight for the Afghan people because that’s what you expect Americans to do.

American troops have been in Afghanistan for 20 years and it’s made no difference

ah, having an agreement with taliban to withdraw the troops, and taking advantage of this ''agreement'' to murder two taliban members at the airport

yup america is so innocent, demented old fool Biden needs to shut his stupid mouth, he has no rights to speak about 'blood shed' since americans have blood on their huge hands themselves too

:idc:

[arista]

Biden, has never wanted to be that long in Afghanistan.
When he was vice president.

Trump set up Legit negations with the Taliban,
in his last year in Power.


Getting Full Control
of the Airports is all that needs to be done, at this time.

[Nicky91]

https://twitter.com/AP/status/1427540394338889734

[Nicky91]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9900697/Taliban-spokesman-calls-female-BBC-News-presenter-live-air.html

a call of a Taliban spokesman with a female BBC news presenter live on air

[arista]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/08/16/23/46750217-9899117-image-a-1_1629151412955.jpg

After his 20min
rant, back to his Holiday in Camp David

[joeysteele]

The last American to die in Afghanistan was in February 2020

The Afghan army has lost 40,000 troops in the last few years fighting the Taliban

Biden making out the only choice was between a prolonged bloody conflict and this **** up is totally false, they could have maintained a modest presence there just the same way they still have a presence in South Korea without being involved in war there. That speech last night was one of the most shameful a president has ever made - no mention of the sacrifices made by Afghans, no sympathy for their plight, no acknowledgement of the efforts made by American allies and other countries. Just a lot of passing the buck and blaming everyone else. Then to top it all off he refuses to take any questions and then goes straight back to Camp David to continue his holiday!

They do say be careful what you wish for.
I wished for a more compassionate and sincere USA leadership under Biden.

Sadly after that speech last night, I'm left sorely disappointed.

I agree with you, it was the most shameful I've heard from a USA President.
It's more like he was irritated he'd had to take a break in his holiday to make it.

I just shook my head near all through it .
Shameful is the word definitely.

[thesheriff443]

It amazes me how people are willing to send people they don’t know to war and possible death for people they don’t know.

If you are not willing to put your own life on the line what gives you the right to tell others to do the same!

[bots]

there are stories coming out now that the government told the soldiers not to fight and to surrender to the taliban while telling the people a completely different story. It's something that sounds believable, perhaps an agreement made with the taliban in order for the government to get out of the country with safe passage and a suitcase full of money

[Nicky91]

there are stories coming out now that the government told the soldiers not to fight and to surrender to the taliban while telling the people a completely different story. It's something that sounds believable, perhaps an agreement made with the taliban in order for the government to get out of the country with safe passage and a suitcase full of money

Ghani is nothing more than a backstabbing cowardly rat, he isn't a true afghan patriot unlike taliban

[thesheriff443]

They needed the confidence of still having the air power.

Why were we there in the first place???
President Bush DID make this about Nation building once he got there.

I care about the terrifying fear and already losses of life which I'll guess far more to come of the civilians.
I know on here, losses of others lives don't matter to some.

Have you listened to those veterans of serving in Afghanistan who are near all saying they feel even betrayed, their injuries,the losses of their comrades lives being for nothing.

Or do their opinions not matter to you either.
I mean they are the ones who got to know the area, the people and served there.

We've contributed to the mess of this withdrawal which was badly planned, monitored terribly despite advancement of technology.

The government in place,ground forces still supported with air power.
That could have been the ideal way to begin leaving.
Not just walk away as the USA and UK did.

It’s a war that can’t be won, America learned that with Vietnam

If the Afghan soldiers themselves won’t fight for their loved ones how is it you can ask American soldiers who have families to die in another country fighting a war that they didn’t start and a war that’s been going on hundreds of years

If you are not putting your life on the line what gives you the right to expect others to put their life on the line

[arista]

Nicky now using Taliban leader image You Rebel

[Cherie]

there are stories coming out now that the government told the soldiers not to fight and to surrender to the taliban while telling the people a completely different story. It's something that sounds believable, perhaps an agreement made with the taliban in order for the government to get out of the country with safe passage and a suitcase full of money

This is beginning to sound more like it, coupled with the fact the solider had not been paid in recent times

[The Slim Reaper]

The last American to die in Afghanistan was in February 2020

The Afghan army has lost 40,000 troops in the last few years fighting the Taliban

Biden making out the only choice was between a prolonged bloody conflict and this **** up is totally false, they could have maintained a modest presence there just the same way they still have a presence in South Korea without being involved in war there. That speech last night was one of the most shameful a president has ever made - no mention of the sacrifices made by Afghans, no sympathy for their plight, no acknowledgement of the efforts made by American allies and other countries. Just a lot of passing the buck and blaming everyone else. Then to top it all off he refuses to take any questions and then goes straight back to Camp David to continue his holiday!

When I criticised trump leaving the Kurds exposed to Turkey, you made a weird comment about thinking I was against middle east intervention. Now Biden has done his, you're suddenly against leaving our allies who've sacrificed for us. I've been consistent in being against exposing the people that have worked with us, but I'm finding your 180 a bit dizzying tbh.

All the things you found shameful about Biden you had no issue with trump, and it's really difficult, because I didn't put you in that category of right winger, but here we are.

Even now, you show absolutely zero awareness for the motions put in place by Trump and Pompeo.

[Nicky91]

It’s a war that can’t be won, America learned that with Vietnam

If the Afghan soldiers themselves won’t fight for their loved ones how is it you can ask American soldiers who have families to die in another country fighting a war that they didn’t start and a war that’s been going on hundreds of years

If you are not putting your life on the line what gives you the right to expect others to put their life on the line

Vietnam is now a better country, and they achieved that long after american soldiers were pulled out

+ also through better international diplomatic relations (same what taliban wants here, no foreign soldiers in the country, but still not to be entirely cut off from rest of the world either, so US, UK and the EU, UN should have good diplomatic contacts with the newly formed afghan government)



already a good thing i guess that taliban wants women to have something to say in their new government, compared to how things were first under their control


continuing with warfare is not good, and fighting terrorism can be different than with warfare, collecting weapons from citizens is a good step, since citizens should have no rights for weapons, explosives, especially in a country you can have potential terrorists amongst your citizens so that is a good step from taliban now either

[bots]

the taliban are still a designated terrorist organisation

[The Slim Reaper]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/aug/16/afghanistan-crisis-pm-boris-johnson-ended-summer-holiday

Afghanistan crisis: Johnson took holiday as Kabul was about to fall

Former senior military and security figures say PM’s decision to depart was ‘dereliction of duty’


Suddenly, I'm guessing, we were never even part of the illegal coalition...

[bots]

i'm convinced the usa and uk knew exactly what was going to go down. The pleading ignorance to the collapse just doesn't wash. Raab also conveniently completely disappeared while it was ongoing

[Cherie]

it doesn't make sense that there would be no intelligence about how far forward the Taliban were

[Niamh.]

The fake news has already started on FB, people posting a picture of a plane load full of Afghan men saying that it was refugees landing in Ireland (where are the women and children??!!!!) an image reverse shows that it was a picture taken in 2018 of a plane landing in Afghanistan :facepalm:

[michael21]

From what I seen on the news its just a load of men with guns looking scared and bore not much of a life

[The Slim Reaper]

"big hearted nation"

1427555768199483394

[joeysteele]

It’s a war that can’t be won, America learned that with Vietnam

If the Afghan soldiers themselves won’t fight for their loved ones how is it you can ask American soldiers who have families to die in another country fighting a war that they didn’t start and a war that’s been going on hundreds of years

If you are not putting your life on the line what gives you the right to expect others to put their life on the line

Really, how silly dues your last paragraph sound.

How do YOU know I wouldn't be willing to.
Had I ever been in the armed services,like near all the veteran injured who did serve there , I'd want to keep building on any progress.
Not throw it all away.

You may be content to now see goodness knows how many citizens eventually murdered by the Taliban.
Or Afghanistan again be an area of terrorist planning activity.

I certainly don't WANT that.

Just as near All those who have served there don't either.

If it was full scale wartime and more than just those trained for warfare and occupation needed.

I'd want to do my bit there too.

Honestly, stop your judging of what I or others should do or think in order to express an opinion.
Unbelievable.

If you had your view all other members should just shut up unless they agree with you.
Or decide to leave where their opinions would be more tolerated elsewhere.

[jet]

The last American to die in Afghanistan was in February 2020

The Afghan army has lost 40,000 troops in the last few years fighting the Taliban

Biden making out the only choice was between a prolonged bloody conflict and this **** up is totally false, they could have maintained a modest presence there just the same way they still have a presence in South Korea without being involved in war there. That speech last night was one of the most shameful a president has ever made - no mention of the sacrifices made by Afghans, no sympathy for their plight, no acknowledgement of the efforts made by American allies and other countries. Just a lot of passing the buck and blaming everyone else. Then to top it all off he refuses to take any questions and then goes straight back to Camp David to continue his holiday!

Agree 100%.

[jet]

What Trump says:
“Afghanistan is the most embarrassing military outcome in the history of the United States. It didn’t have to be that way!” Trump said in a Monday statement.
“Can anyone even imagine taking out our Military before evacuating civilians and others who have been good to our Country and who should be allowed to seek refuge?” Trump added in a separate statement. “In addition, these people left topflight and highly sophisticated equipment. Who can believe such incompetence? Under my Administration, all civilians and equipment would have been removed.”
...............

We’ll never know, and I’m no fan of Trump, but at least he had good negotiating skills when it mattered and that air of fearlessness and confidence that made foreign powers think twice before acting. I never thought I’d say this, but given a choice beforehand of who to choose to handle the withdrawal, I’d have taken the chance with Trump over Biden.
Seems like all those years of keeping the worst of terrorism at bay is going to be for nothing and the world will be a more dangerous place as a result.

[Oliver_W]

What Trump says:
“Afghanistan is the most embarrassing military outcome in the history of the United States. It didn’t have to be that way!” Trump said in a Monday statement.
“Can anyone even imagine taking out our Military before evacuating civilians and others who have been good to our Country and who should be allowed to seek refuge?” Trump added in a separate statement. “In addition, these people left topflight and highly sophisticated equipment. Who can believe such incompetence? Under my Administration, all civilians and equipment would have been removed.”
...............

We’ll never know, and I’m no fan of Trump, but at least he had good negotiating skills when it mattered and that air of fearlessness and confidence that made foreign powers think twice before acting. I never thought I’d say this, but given a choice beforehand of who to choose to handle the withdrawal, I’d have taken the chance with Trump over Biden.
Seems like all those years of keeping the worst of terrorism at bay is going to be for nothing and the world will be a more dangerous place as a result.

I'm not a fan of middle East intervention, as it won't achieve anything without prolonged involvement while islam is still driving things, but yeah Biden's withdrawal strategy is ridiculous, and should cost him the presidency.

[bots]

the equipment that was left behind was given to the afghan forces in order for them to protect themselves. They had no reason to take anyone out the country because they trained and funded an army and airforce of 300,000 people that should have easily been able to repel the taliban. So, as usual, trump is talking complete bollox

[user104658]

Not people STILL believing that the POTUS has direct control of any kind over **** like this :think:.

[Beso]

He has shown what a dangerous man to have in power he is.

One who cant hold his temper, and one who had failed his first hurdle as president.

Wake up world.

[MTVN]

America had an agreement with the taliban to withdraw that’s why the American troops have not been killed, what do you think would happen if America went back on that agreement? American troops would be killed at every opportunity

Yes, 40 thousand Afghan troops have died, Afghanistan has a population of 38 million

Will you go and fight for the Afghan people because that’s what you expect Americans to do.

American troops have been in Afghanistan for 20 years and it’s made no difference

The low casualties predate that agreement, the country has been relatively stable the last few years with what was a much scaled back military presence from the heavy fighting days

When I criticised trump leaving the Kurds exposed to Turkey, you made a weird comment about thinking I was against middle east intervention. Now Biden has done his, you're suddenly against leaving our allies who've sacrificed for us. I've been consistent in being against exposing the people that have worked with us, but I'm finding your 180 a bit dizzying tbh.

All the things you found shameful about Biden you had no issue with trump, and it's really difficult, because I didn't put you in that category of right winger, but here we are.

Even now, you show absolutely zero awareness for the motions put in place by Trump and Pompeo.

I don't think it was a weird comment, more an observation on how complicated Middle Eastern affairs are and how Western governments often can't win because they're either blamed for interfering too much or blamed for not doing enough

Trump planned to withdraw as well I know but Biden has to take ownership over the actual operation where he has totally ignored advice and refused to take responsibility for what's unfolded. This **** up was not inevitable and this is not about Trump. Whether it would have unfolded the same is speculation and at least Trump actually communicated with American citizens. The contempt Biden has shown for so many different parties is like nothing I've seen in an American president

[jet]

the equipment that was left behind was given to the afghan forces in order for them to protect themselves. They had no reason to take anyone out the country because they trained and funded an army and airforce of 300,000 people that should have easily been able to repel the taliban. So, as usual, trump is talking complete bollox

Yet the prior intelligence was that the Afghan forces knew that resistance was futile and that most were ready and willing to surrender/join the Taliban rather than risk their lives and that of their families….and it was known that they weren’t being paid for their services; they were demoralised and in chaos.

[jet]

.......in April, Biden announced that the remaining three thousand U.S. troops in Afghanistan would be withdrawn by September 11, 2021. Not only did those troops depart, but so did eight thousand allied troops and eighteen thousand contractors that the Afghan forces relied upon to operate their air force and for logistical support. In recent months, the Afghan military was unable to provide vital supplies such as food and ammunition to outposts scattered around the country. Some Afghan units, particularly the elite commandos, fought hard nearly to the end. But seeing the writing on the wall, most troops chose to cut deals with the Taliban, surrender, or simply melt away rather than risk their lives for a hopeless cause.

https://www.cfr.org/in-brief/how-afghan-army-collapsed-under-talibans-pressure

[MTVN]

.......in April, Biden announced that the remaining three thousand U.S. troops in Afghanistan would be withdrawn by September 11, 2021. Not only did those troops depart, but so did eight thousand allied troops and eighteen thousand contractors that the Afghan forces relied upon to operate their air force and for logistical support. In recent months, the Afghan military was unable to provide vital supplies such as food and ammunition to outposts scattered around the country. Some Afghan units, particularly the elite commandos, fought hard nearly to the end. But seeing the writing on the wall, most troops chose to cut deals with the Taliban, surrender, or simply melt away rather than risk their lives for a hopeless cause.

https://www.cfr.org/in-brief/how-afghan-army-collapsed-under-talibans-pressure

And that's the reality, the idea that the Afghans 'weren't prepared to fight' as Biden put it is pretty offensive to troops who have known nothing other than fighting the Taliban their whole lives

[Livia]

To be fair, the Taliban just walked into barracks, the soldiers there, armed and trained by the West, ran away.

[Zizu]

I don’t fully understand why Royal Navy Admiral Sir Ben Key has made a statement saying that UK forces aim to evacuate 6,000 people from Afghanistan !?!

Why are we telling them out intentions !!


Kinda sounds like he’s putting our forces under unnecessary danger just to score media points


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Swan]

"big hearted nation"

1427555768199483394

Leave then Slim, go live anywhere else in the world, anywhere you think will suit you better.

You can crap on this country all you like, but the fact of it is it's a decent country to live. You get plenty of opportunities and help here you wouldn't get elsewhere. Why do thousands risk their lives to get here every week? Obvious, for a chance at a good life, with plenty of help along the way.

Yeah the Tories are shady, as are most politicians. But whilst moaning all the time you forget how privileged you are to be here. Just look at the world, we have it easy here. Piss easy actually!

[Nicky91]

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2021/08/mps-to-debate-afghan-crisis-as-efforts-to-evacuate-citizens-continue/

Netherlands: MPs are returning from their summer break on Tuesday for an emergency debate on the crisis in Afghanistan and the operation to evacuate Dutch citizens from Kabul.

A military plane sent to collect the first evacuees was unable to land on Monday evening because of the chaotic scenes at Kabul’s airport. Hundreds of people are waiting to be flown to safety, including some Afghan interpreters and their families

Caretaker foreign minister Sigrid Kaag and defence minister Ank Bijleveld said in a letter to parliament that the Netherlands had agreed with the EU to help repatriate ‘a number of members of the EU delegation in Kabul and their family members.’

Around 6,000 American troops have taken control of Kabul airport in an attempt to restore order, after thousands of Afghans fearing for their lives tried to jump on board cargo planes on Monday. One German aircraft took off just before midnight, but was only able to carry seven people.

The government said it had relaxed the immigration rules for Afghan interpreters and their families so that they can enter the country with temporary travel documents, as long as the defence ministry confirms that they have worked for the Netherlands.

MPs are expected to demand answers as to why the government was so late to recognise the rapidly deteriorating situation in Afghanistan. As recently as last Tuesday the Netherlands was one of six European nations that criticised the European Commission’s plans for a moratorium on deporting Afghans whose asylum claims had been rejected.

The countries’ foreign ministers wrote to the commission to argue that suspending returns ‘sends the wrong signal’ and would ‘motivate even more Afghans to leave their homes for the EU.’

In their letter to parliament, Kaag, Bijleveld and junior justice minister Ankie Broekers-Knol said the speed of the Taliban’s takeover had taken the international community by surprise. ‘The events should prompt us to reflect and raise many questions that need to be answered in the near future.’

[bots]

Bidens speech fact checked:


'Our mission in Afghanistan was never supposed to have been nation building.'

President Biden stressed the purpose behind the US intervention in Afghanistan had "always been preventing a terrorist attack on American homeland" and "never supposed to be creating a unified centralised democracy".

This clearly contradicts his previous positions on the US objective in Afghanistan.

At the outset of the conflict in 2001 when Mr Biden was a US senator, he outlined the long-term purpose of the American military intervention, saying: "Our hope is that we will see a relatively stable government in Afghanistan, one that… provides the foundation for future reconstruction of that country."

And again, in 2003 - in another quote, tracked down by the Politico website - he said the "alternative to nation building is chaos, a chaos that churns out bloodthirsty warlords, drug traffickers and terrorists".


'I know there are concerns about why we did not begin evacuating Afghan civilians sooner. Part of the answer is some of the Afghans did not want to leave earlier, still hopeful for their country.'


The rapid transfer of power to the Taliban took many Afghans by surprise, not giving them enough time to make plans to leave the country.

However, there had been high demand for a US visa programme for those facing danger in Afghanistan and the scheme was plagued by delays.

There are an estimated 18,000 applicants stuck in the backlog, affecting thousands more of their relatives.

About half have submitted completed applications to the US chief of mission in Afghanistan and the rest are yet to supply all the correct documents.

"The backlog in the system already means it will take an Afghan applicant two to three years or more to reach safety in the US," the International Rescue Committee said.

In his speech, Mr Biden noted 2,000 Afghans and their families eligible for special immigration visas had so far been moved to the US, with more planned.

In response to the crisis, Congress has approved a bill increasing the number of visas by 8,000, and a refugee settlement scheme has been expanded.

'Afghanistan's political leaders gave up and fled the country.'



President Ashraf Ghani left the country with his aides, ahead of the Taliban advance into Kabul, despite having vowed several times to remain.

But other political leaders have remained and made public statements about doing so.

Former President Hamid Karzai, who served from 2001 to 2014, appeared in a video with his daughters, in which he said he was in Kabul and urged government forces and the Taliban to protect civilians.

Mr Karzai said all political leaders in the country would work to solve the issues peacefully and requested people to be patient.

The first Vice-President of Afghanistan, Amrullah Saleh, is also currently in the country, along with other leaders such as Ahmad Massoud, son of anti-Soviet military leader and politician Ahmad Shah Massoud.

And BBC News's Yalda Hakim has revealed the political leaders currently present in Afghanistan are forming an anti-Taliban coalition.

'The Afghan military collapsed, some time without trying to fight.'

It's true that the collapse of Afghan forces in the final few weeks of the conflict was dramatic.

However, this has to be seen in the context of the rapid, largely uncoordinated departure of international forces from the country.

When President Biden announced the withdrawal of US troops in April, eight thousand allied forces and eighteen thousand contractors who provided logistical support to the Afghan forces also left.

Afghan forces had relied heavily on these contractors and trainers over the past 20 years.

It's also worth noting that the Afghan army may have been well funded and equipped on paper, but the reality was different, often blamed on corruption and low morale.

Almost 70,000 Afghan police and military personnel have been killed fighting the Taliban in the last 20 years.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/58243158

[The Slim Reaper]

Leave then Slim, go live anywhere else in the world, anywhere you think will suit you better.

You can crap on this country all you like, but the fact of it is it's a decent country to live. You get plenty of opportunities and help here you wouldn't get elsewhere. Why do thousands risk their lives to get here every week? Obvious, for a chance at a good life, with plenty of help along the way.

Yeah the Tories are shady, as are most politicians. But whilst moaning all the time you forget how privileged you are to be here. Just look at the world, we have it easy here. Piss easy actually!

It shows complete intellectual frailty, when the merest hint of pointing out the BS, causes replies of "leave"

And that is all I need to say about you and your post.

[arista]

the Taliban are still a designated terrorist organisation


Yes of course
like that nation next to Israel is.



Even though China is very happy
to trade and do business with the Taliban


And Russia - also having Taliban respect.

[The Slim Reaper]

I don't think it was a weird comment, more an observation on how complicated Middle Eastern affairs are and how Western governments often can't win because they're either blamed for interfering too much or blamed for not doing enough

Trump planned to withdraw as well I know but Biden has to take ownership over the actual operation where he has totally ignored advice and refused to take responsibility for what's unfolded. This **** up was not inevitable and this is not about Trump. Whether it would have unfolded the same is speculation and at least Trump actually communicated with American citizens. The contempt Biden has shown for so many different parties is like nothing I've seen in an American president

I mean, you used it as an attempted gotcha, not as the start of a discussion on the complexity of middle east policy.

I agree about Biden, but this whole thing was kicked off by trump, and the minute he released the taliban leadership, and Pompeo was doing photo ops with the new leader, it was game over.

I'm appalled at Biden and our leadership, but the wheels were set in motion a few years ago.

[Swan]

It shows complete intellectual frailty, when the merest hint of pointing out the BS, causes replies of "leave"

And that is all I need to say about you and your post.

Nah everyday it's the same, you moan bitch and wine about this country.

But yeah, don't address anything else in my post, nothing to say about it i guess, fact can't be argued.

Same old same old, non oppressed people trying desperately hard to be oppressed.

[The Slim Reaper]

Nah everyday it's the same, you moan bitch and wine about this country.

But yeah, don't address anything else in my post, nothing to say about it i guess, fact can't be argued.

Same old same old, non oppressed people trying desperately hard to be oppressed.

You haven't presented any facts - like all of your recent posts, it was only about me.

[Swan]

You haven't presented any facts - like all of your recent posts, it was only about me.

What about the FACT that people risks their lives to get here, daily? (after passing through dozens of non war torn countries).

Why hundreds of thousands of Europeans moved here in the last 15/20 years where there's nothing wrong with their countries as far as conflict goes?

[arista]

CNN HD
reports some shops are open again.
With Taliban on every street.

Clarissa Ward - well done for dressing respectfully.

1427582623845601281

[Nicky91]

''fall of afghanistan''

fearmongering CNN again with overdramatic headlines :rolleyes:



afghanistan being saved out of the grasp from horrible US, UK and the vile rat ex-president ghani



good that shops are open again, life needs to resume, and this nonsense news is over

[The Slim Reaper]

What about the FACT that people risks their lives to get here, daily? (after passing through dozens of non war torn countries).

Why hundreds of thousands of Europeans moved here in the last 15/20 years where there's nothing wrong with their countries as far as conflict goes?

Ok so firstly, to suggest I haven't spoken numerous times about the absurd levels of privilege I've enjoyed, shows that you're making sh1t up.

I hate to break this to you, but we are way down the list of numbers of refugees and asylum seekers we accept compared to our nearest neighbours - a FACT.

Here's what you don't understand - being in the EU afforded us free movement to also go to other european countries to work and live and we took advantage of that too, but we've killed that now, so your rights have been taken away from you, because the far right gets mad about people coming here. It's also weird, because when British people move abroad they are ex-pats of course, but people coming here under the same rules are immigrants. These are the subtleties that you don't seem to grasp, and that's why the racist propaganda has left us with worker shortages, leading to future potential food shortages.

We've cut our foreign aid budget, and we're making it illegal to rescue asylum seekers dumped in the channel.

I don't moan for my privilege, because my privilege remains the same regardless of who resides in number 10, I moan about the injustices for the poor, for the homeless, and for the people we've displaced over decades.

[arista]

''fall of afghanistan''

fearmongering CNN again with overdramatic headlines :rolleyes:



afghanistan being saved out of the grasp from horrible US, UK and the vile rat ex-president ghani



good that shops are open again, life needs to resume, and this nonsense news is over


Its good she is able to report
the Taliban can use her/

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E866kmWWEAghfoA?format=jpg&name=900x900

[Beso]

I'm afraid the image of that usa air force plane taking off whilst people were still clinging on will come back to haunt america, and biden.

[jet]

1427228472544485378

What is your reaction to this Slim?

Biden overturned or changed many policies set up by Trump; he is the President NOW. There could have been attempted negotiations, he could have extended the withdrawal time. He didn’t want to....he was agog for the troops to leave long before Trump set anything up - and to hell with the horrendous treatment of women and young girls, deprived of their educational achievements and treated like non - entities and sex objects.

[arista]

I'm afraid the image of that usa air force plane taking off whilst people were still clinging on will come back to haunt america, and Biden.


Of Course.

[jet]

I'm afraid the image of that usa air force plane taking off whilst people were still clinging on will come back to haunt america, and biden.

Yes, awful images; and that reminded me too of the terrible images of those poor people jumping to their deaths from the twin towers in 9/11.
It's all very tragic. :sad:

[arista]

USA Pentagon Meeting with Press
They now have proper Control of the Airport.

But Taliban are outside
stopping some Afghans going in.
One Reporter said passports ripped up.

The USA Military expect to start taking out Americans
and some helpers that managed to get to the airport.


The USA Military
is not able to go out and pick people up.

So if you can get to the Airport you have a chance to leave.

[Zizu]

I'm afraid the image of that usa air force plane taking off whilst people were still clinging on will come back to haunt america, and biden.


Guess you’ve seen the clip of two of them falling 100m to their deaths moments later ..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[arista]

The Taliban are doing a Press Conference on TOLO news

UK broadcasters are waiting for Translators.


SkyNewsHD


CNN HD says they have a translator

[arista]

1427643452276322315

[arista]

Live CNN HD now

Zabihullah Mujahid Taliban Spokesman


They have the Best Translator.



Also on SkyNewsHD

[Oliver_W]

I hate to break this to you, but we are way down the list of numbers of refugees and asylum seekers we accept compared to our nearest neighbours - a FACT.


Doesn't stop people from traipsing through safe countries to try and get here.

[The Slim Reaper]

Doesn't stop people from traipsing through safe countries to try and get here.

And more of them traipse through safe countries to get to other safe countries. We don't know anything about these folks, so I'm not really arsed about pretend hypotheticals about the situations of each and every single asylum seeker.

[The Slim Reaper]

What is your reaction to this Slim?

Biden overturned or changed many policies set up by Trump; he is the President NOW. There could have been attempted negotiations, he could have extended the withdrawal time. He didn’t want to....he was agog for the troops to leave long before Trump set anything up - and to hell with the horrendous treatment of women and young girls, deprived of their educational achievements and treated like non - entities and sex objects.

My opinion is exactly the same as it was prior to you asking the question. Biden has acted appallingly throughout this, but Trump set this into an unstoppable train by releasing the Taliban leaders in 2018, and making agreements with them.

I don't blame Biden for Trumps actions, and I don't blame Trump for Biden's actions. Pretty simple, really.

[Oliver_W]

And more of them traipse through safe countries to get to other safe countries. We don't know anything about these folks, so I'm not really arsed about pretend hypotheticals about the situations of each and every single asylum seeker.

I'm not interested in every individual one either, just the illegal immigrants trying to cross the channel.

[The Slim Reaper]

I'm not interested in every individual one either, just the illegal immigrants trying to cross the channel.

Arriving in a country to claim asylum is not illegal under international law. It's up to their asylum claims to decides whether they are asylum seekers or immigrants, not internet racists.

[bots]

1427631191545589772

1427607793708814361

[arista]

A Female Reporter
asked the Taliban about Women.

He said yes they have the right to Work
but under our laws.


Live CNN HD

[arista]

The Taliban say one question each.
So all get a chance.


An American asked 2
he asked about a missing Monk.

The Taliban said they have no info on the missing person
at this time.

[Beso]

Guess you’ve seen the clip of two of them falling 100m to their deaths moments later ..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Yes.

Why the plane had to take off is beyond my comprehension..that biden has blood on his hands already..

[jet]

My opinion is exactly the same as it was prior to you asking the question. Biden has acted appallingly throughout this, but Trump set this into an unstoppable train by releasing the Taliban leaders in 2018, and making agreements with them.

I don't blame Biden for Trumps actions, and I don't blame Trump for Biden's actions. Pretty simple, really.

It was always going to happen - it is HOW it happened and who was in charge when it DID that is relevant. Bringing Trump up every time you mention Biden's actions is just a diversionary tactic.

[The Slim Reaper]

It was always going to happen - it is HOW it happened and who was in charge when it DID that is relevant. Bringing Trump up every time you mention Biden's actions is just a diversionary tactic.

You're wrong. The only reason i brought Trump into this thread to begin with, were because of untruths and the whitewashing omission of Trump.

Picture the same asylum seekers looking to come here, when our vaccinated numbers were lower than they currently are in May, which is exactly what would have happened if trump was in office.

World events don't happen in a vacuum, so pretending they do is weird and dishonest.

[Beso]

Biden can be blamed for trumos actions as he’s presided over so much of the USAs action in the region, as chairman of the senate foreign relations committee during the bulk of the war...

[bots]

As Biden stated himself, before blaming everyone else :laugh: .... the buck stops with him. He painted a picture of having no options, but we all know he had plenty options, they are the most powerful country in the world, he ****ed up, that's the simple truth

[arista]

The Taliban
News Conference has Finished

The USA meanwhile have control
of the Airport to get those Americans out.

[arista]

Any Women can work
but under Sharia Law.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia

[bots]

the press conference was just obfuscation and lies. They aren't fooling anyone

[arista]

the press conference was just obfuscation and lies. They aren't fooling anyone


The Taliban
are setting out their plan.


Time will tell if Women return to work.

[Zizu]

The Taliban
are setting out their plan.


Time will tell if Women return to work.


I worry for all the Afghan females...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Oliver_W]

Arriving in a country to claim asylum is not illegal under international law. It's up to their asylum claims to decides whether they are asylum seekers or immigrants, not internet racists.

If it was safety they were seeking, they would have stopped during one of the multiple safe places they passed through before taking the un-safe trip across the Channel.

And lol @ "racist". I'm a gay guy with women and children in my family who I care about. It's not racist to be wary of importing tens of thousands of fighting age men who are bringing along their culture which executes gays, treats women like property, and marries children.

[arista]

USA hopes to take out
5,000 to 9,000 a day using many big planes per hour,
so long as they hold the Airport

[The Slim Reaper]

If it was safety they were seeking, they would have stopped during one of the multiple safe places they passed through before taking the un-safe trip across the Channel.

And lol @ "racist". I'm a gay guy with women and children in my family who I care about. It's not racist to be wary of importing tens of thousands of fighting age men who are bringing along their culture which executes gays, treats women like property, and marries children.

Like I said, hypotheticals about why folks turn up here, when there are many potential factors isn't important to me, because they are turning up in other countries too.

It's not racist to blanket all Muslims with the joint labels of homosexual murderers, women herders, and pedophiles? Maybe not on TIBB anymore, but in the real world it's disgustingly racist.

[Swan]

Like I said, hypotheticals about why folks turn up here, when there are many potential factors isn't important to me, because they are turning up in other countries too.

It's not racist to blanket all Muslims with the joint labels of homosexual murderers, women herders, and pedophiles? Maybe not on TIBB anymore, but in the real world it's disgustingly racist.

Religion and race aren't the same thing.

[arista]

On Tolo News
A female Reporter
has interviewed a Taliban Leader

[The Slim Reaper]

Religion and race aren't the same thing.

Oliver, quite rightly doesn't believe there are an influx of honky Muslims crossing the channel.


It's also coded language. When we talk about asylum seeking Muslims, everyone knows the parameters we're talking about.

[Cherie]

Oliver, quite rightly doesn't believe there are an influx of honky Muslims crossing the channel.


It's also coded language. When we talk about asylum seeking Muslims, everyone knows the parameters we're talking about.

Using racist slurs yourself lessens any point thou are making :shrug: you are not Monique

[The Slim Reaper]

Using racist slurs yourself lessens any point thou are making :shrug: you are not Monique

How is a white person using the word honky, a racist slur? You've gone mental with your weird reaches recently :shrug:

[Cherie]

How is a white person using the word honky, a racist slur? You've gone mental with your weird reaches recently :shrug:

You meant it in a derogatory way and you could be blue for all I know :laugh:

[Cherie]

Where have I gone mental? Examples please

[The Slim Reaper]

You meant it in a derogatory way and you could be blue for all I know :laugh:

I neither used or meant it in a derogatory way. It was used to emphasise that it wasn't about religion :laugh:

[thesheriff443]

True story!
A few weeks I was mistaken for an Afghan by another Afghan in a scrap yard
He tryed speaking to me in his own language and I said pardon?
He said sorry I thought you was Afghan, if you go to my country you will not get targeted because you look Afghan
He then went on to talk about corruption in the government and American selling them weapons bizarre but true.

[The Slim Reaper]

theshareef443

[arista]

UK Parliament starts at 9:30AM
Live debate tomorrow.


https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=377309

[Crimson Dynamo]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I’m grateful every day for the privileges I have <a href="https://t.co/OsI6BhfGVL">https://t.co/OsI6BhfGVL</a></p>&mdash; According2Taz (@superscuba83) <a href="https://twitter.com/superscuba83/status/1427574254594318395?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 17, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Oliver_W]

Oliver, quite rightly doesn't believe there are an influx of honky Muslims crossing the channel.



Unlike you I don't care what their skin colours are, because it's not about that.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Unlike you I don't care what their skin colours are, because it's not about that.

Good point well made

[The Slim Reaper]

Unlike you I don't care what their skin colours are, because it's not about that.


How many white people on Dinghies have you seen? Y'know the same people you called fighting age men, that are homosexual murderers, women herders, and paedophiles.

Notions of the dangerous "other" are linked to issues of race, whether implied, inherent, or explicit.

[Beso]

Did the bbc just dub the Taliban leaders voice with a female translator...

Idiots.

[Oliver_W]

How many white people on Dinghies have you seen?

What's with your obsession about race? It's completely irrelevant.

If you've been profiling the migrants by skin colour, feel free to tell us...

[The Slim Reaper]

What's with your obsession about race? It's completely irrelevant.

If you've been profiling the migrants by skin colour, feel free to tell us...

I just called out your disgustingly racist post, so you're getting angry at the wrong person. Own it.

[Oliver_W]

I just called out your disgustingly racist post, so you're getting angry at the wrong person. Own it.

Showing distaste toward a backward culture isn't racist, you were the one who had to bring race into it.

[bots]

back on topic ......


Biden's election campaign could be boiled down to three messages to distinguish himself from Donald Trump. First, he would be more empathetic. He would be more competent. And instead of "America First", it would be replaced by the mantra "America is back".

But in his address yesterday, there wasn't a whole lot of empathy towards the thousands of Afghans who've helped Americans these past 20 years. On competence, even his biggest cheerleaders would struggle to say the withdrawal of American troops has been anything other than shambolic.

And after the bewildering events of the past few days, how exactly is America back? Many see what has unfolded on President Biden's watch in Afghanistan as a linear continuation of Donald Trump's America First policies - and, as some have joked cruelly, not as well organised.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58252174

[Crimson Dynamo]

back on topic ......


Biden's election campaign could be boiled down to three messages to distinguish himself from Donald Trump. First, he would be more empathetic. He would be more competent. And instead of "America First", it would be replaced by the mantra "America is back".

But in his address yesterday, there wasn't a whole lot of empathy towards the thousands of Afghans who've helped Americans these past 20 years. On competence, even his biggest cheerleaders would struggle to say the withdrawal of American troops has been anything other than shambolic.

And after the bewildering events of the past few days, how exactly is America back? Many see what has unfolded on President Biden's watch in Afghanistan as a linear continuation of Donald Trump's America First policies - and, as some have joked cruelly, not as well organised.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58252174

It's telling Bots the silence from those who championed this fool

Deafening

[thesheriff443]

back on topic ......


Biden's election campaign could be boiled down to three messages to distinguish himself from Donald Trump. First, he would be more empathetic. He would be more competent. And instead of "America First", it would be replaced by the mantra "America is back".

But in his address yesterday, there wasn't a whole lot of empathy towards the thousands of Afghans who've helped Americans these past 20 years. On competence, even his biggest cheerleaders would struggle to say the withdrawal of American troops has been anything other than shambolic.

And after the bewildering events of the past few days, how exactly is America back? Many see what has unfolded on President Biden's watch in Afghanistan as a linear continuation of Donald Trump's America First policies - and, as some have joked cruelly, not as well organised.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58252174

The thing is after 20 years training and equipping 300 thousand troops and all the Americans and British troops that have been killed it has all been for nothing

They could of stayed for another 20 years and be in the same position it’s a war America or the uk can never win

[thesheriff443]

It's telling Bots the silence from those who championed this fool

Deafening

I don’t think he is a fool he has been lied to by the people in power in Afghanistan and the Afghan troops are cowards

There comes a point where enough is enough

[thesheriff443]

300 thousand Afghan troops as opposed to 85 thousand taliban soldiers and a population of 38 million

[bots]

300 thousand Afghan troops as opposed to 85 thousand taliban soldiers and a population of 38 million

the number of afghan security forces that have died over the last 20 years is an order of magnitude greater than the USA/UK losses combined

Biden made no attempt to explain why the soldiers didn't fight over the last couple of weeks because that didn't fit his narrative. Even his biggest supporters must have seen that he was firmly placing the blame on everyone but himself and that is typically trump too

[Ninastar]

Yikes, I knew the US being there was preventing the inevitable from happening, but I did not expect it to happen this quickly.

Hopefully this opens people’s eyes to the threats that these countries pose to anyone that isn’t within their ‘acceptable’ lifestyle.

I genuinely find it insane that people thought it would be a good idea to announce that there were very few troops left… like surely people must realise that saying something like that would make them an easy target? If I had any family over there rn, I would be absolutely ****ting myself. My friend was supposed to be stationed in Afghanistan and I wonder if she would have still been there now

[thesheriff443]

the number of afghan security forces that have died over the last 20 years is an order of magnitude greater than the USA/UK losses combined

Biden made no attempt to explain why the soldiers didn't fight over the last couple of weeks because that didn't fit his narrative. Even his biggest supporters must have seen that he was firmly placing the blame on everyone but himself and that is typically trump too

We are in this position because the Afghan government ran away and the Afghan army ran away.

Biden did what trump had already agreed to do, America spent 20 years there gave the Afghan forces the training and the best weapons but it couldn’t give them the will to fight and secure their own future.

[arista]

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[arista]

NewsnightHD BBC2
Spoke with some who can not get to the Kabul Airport
Taliban checkers outside the Airport
are not letting all through.
They want women to stay and help their nation.

Conservative and Labour MP's
agree to let helpers in.

[arista]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/08/17/23/46794057-9902845-image-a-127_1629240225412.jpg
[British nationals and Afghan evacuees are seen
disembarking an RAF Voyager A330 aircraft at Brize Norton]

[arista]

From WION HD
Gravitas report Live 6:30PM (SkyHD 523)

Had their reporter go back to that park
in Kabul which did have thousands.

Now they are under 100 there.

The rest went back home
as they now know, the Taliban run that nation.

[Oliver_W]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/1564B/production/_119972678_guardian-nc.png

The priority should be Christians, women, and children.

[Livia]

Agree with Oliver, those most at risk should be first. I have no problem taking genuine refugees who have come through legal channels.

[user104658]

The priority should be Christians, women, and children.

:think: Do you mean Christians who have gone there from the west? In which case we should be prioritising getting non-Afghanistan-citizens "home". There are very few (if any) non-closeted Christian native Afghan people because it's always been illegal to practice any religion other than Islam in Afghanistan, that's never changed.

I agree with getting women and children out first but I'd extend that to families; I don't think you can really justify separating families of refugees. But yes I would say children, women and families should be taken before solo male refugees. The unfortunate truth is that they're usually simply at less immediate risk, and also in terms of the "first safe country" argument, a solo male stands a much better chance in a refugee camp situation, whereas families are at much more urgent need of an actual home.

[Oliver_W]

:think: Do you mean Christians who have gone there from the west?
I was referring to Christians born there. Christians in the Middle East are always walking targets, but the rise of extremism just increases this.

[user104658]

I was referring to Christians born there. Christians in the Middle East are always walking targets, but the rise of extremism just increases this.

Christianity (and non-Islam religion) is illegal in Afghanistan and was all throughout the western occupoation; any Christians born in Afghanistan are practicing Christianity "in the closet" and always have been.

[bots]

the people at extreme risk are the women that took up senior positions in the previous regime, whether that was in government, law or promoting women's rights. They are the ones that led the way for women and i truly fear for their wellbeing

[Oliver_W]

Christianity (and non-Islam religion) is illegal in Afghanistan and was all throughout the western occupoation; any Christians born in Afghanistan are practicing Christianity "in the closet" and always have been.

Jesus, I was giving that hellhole waaaay too much credit :joker:

Yeah, airlift the Christians out of their asap, it's only gonna get worse...

[Zizu]

the people at extreme risk are the women that took up senior positions in the previous regime, whether that was in government, law or promoting women's rights. They are the ones that led the way for women and i truly fear for their wellbeing


Yes .. plus any who speak out against you the Taliban to the media


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Niamh.]

the people at extreme risk are the women that took up senior positions in the previous regime, whether that was in government, law or promoting women's rights. They are the ones that led the way for women and i truly fear for their wellbeing

Must be absolutely terrifying for them

[Cherie]

The guy who runs the animal sanctuary in Kabul was on GMB this morning, he tried to get his wife and one of his pregnant female vets out yesterday, they had seats on a plane, but could not get into the airport with the throng of people and the military would not open the gates to let them in or they would been overrun, the Taliban are allowing this by crowd by not stopping people at checkpoints obviously they know this will hinder people trying to get out

[bots]

Christianity (and non-Islam religion) is illegal in Afghanistan and was all throughout the western occupoation; any Christians born in Afghanistan are practicing Christianity "in the closet" and always have been.

it's not just that it's illegal, the punishment is death. It's really not that much different to being non C of E during henry 8th's time

[Ninastar]

The thing that scares me the most is that we don’t know who is problematic and who isn’t, and that in itself is terrifying.

We should 100% be helping out refugees and those whose homes we have ruined within the last 20+ years. But at the same time, there will absolutely be a rise in terrorist attacks across the globe again.

Truly awful times.

Everything that has happened over these last few weeks (days really…) proves that we left the Middle East too early and we were no where near stabilising it…

This isn’t just some 20 year war… this is something that it’s going to take years and years and years.

There are still US stations in Germany after all these years… this is what we need to do with the Middle East. Help protect citizens until the threat are in the actual minority.

[bots]

the first thing the taliban did was free all the prisoners in jail. These prisoners were all known terrorists. The first thing they are going to do is take it out on the west, so it's basically already begun

[Ninastar]

the first thing the taliban did was free all the prisoners in jail. These prisoners were all known terrorists. The first thing they are going to do is take it out on the west, so it's basically already begun

Yeah… These are some very scary times ahead and I don’t think people have realised it just yet

[Niamh.]

It's been handled very badly, that's for sure

[arista]

The guy who runs the animal sanctuary in Kabul was on GMB this morning, he tried to get his wife and one of his pregnant female vets out yesterday, they had seats on a plane, but could not get into the airport with the throng of people and the military would not open the gates to let them in or they would been overrun, the Taliban are allowing this by crowd by not stopping people at checkpoints obviously they know this will hinder people trying to get out


He needs to go
to the Airport to see it now
so long as you can past Taliban Check point
its all OK now


Yes The USA Troops Fired in the Air
to stop the massive amount entering.
His wife was caught in that.
So shocking

[arista]

It's been handled very badly, that's for sure


Trump last night
made sense.

Saying get everyone out first
before giving the date.

[Cherie]

I think the most chilling part of it all how they are trying to troll the media by saying they have changed :facepalm:

[Ninastar]

It's been handled very badly, that's for sure

Absolutely.

The sad thing is that this is something the whole world needs to help take part in. I also think that someone who has never had experience in war/the military, shouldn’t be president/someone who can start a war without finishing it and ensuring that everything is stable before leaving.

It’s not just as simple as ‘leave them to it, it’s their country’ or ‘just nuke them all’, it’s something that takes the UN to agree on and plan for the next 50-100 years.

War isn’t always just killing innocents and enemies. It’s rebuilding schools and hospitals too. And a lot of people who have no knowledge of military life have no idea about this.

My kind of MIL (she calls herself that lol) was in Afghanistan and kids used to throw rocks and things at her and the soldiers. She would throw back socks and the kids were so happy… it’s crazy

[Ninastar]

I don’t really post on here anymore but I’ve been needing to find an outlet for my thoughts on this, bc this is the most worried I have been in years. I fear that this is the start of some very dark times

[bots]

it's very concerning. Even someone who helped our soldiers 20 years ago and is eligible to come to the uk/usa could have completely changed their allegiance in that time ... how can that be investigated/checked

[The Slim Reaper]

I think it's important to remember that Afghanistan doesn't pose a terrorist threat. They were invaded for harbouring Al-Qaeda which was based and funded on and by Saudi ideological Wahhabism. Saudi and Pakistan are the main perpetrators of terror in the region, and they aren't challenged by us because Pakistan has the bomb, and the Saudis have the money.

[The Slim Reaper]

Absolutely.

The sad thing is that this is something the whole world needs to help take part in. I also think that someone who has never had experience in war/the military, shouldn’t be president/someone who can start a war without finishing it and ensuring that everything is stable before leaving.

It’s not just as simple as ‘leave them to it, it’s their country’ or ‘just nuke them all’, it’s something that takes the UN to agree on and plan for the next 50-100 years.

War isn’t always just killing innocents and enemies. It’s rebuilding schools and hospitals too. And a lot of people who have no knowledge of military life have no idea about this.

My kind of MIL (she calls herself that lol) was in Afghanistan and kids used to throw rocks and things at her and the soldiers. She would throw back socks and the kids were so happy… it’s crazy

The main folly is thinking that any amount of years can force people to change their belief or ideological systems and practices. The only way the region "modernises" is through an Islamic renaissance, not invasion and occupation.

Afghanistan was an open and westernised country in the 70's, until Russia invaded, and the US funded and trained the religious mujahedeen to fight them. People have the right of self determination, and not Uk and US imperialism and pseudo-colonisation.

[Ninastar]

The main folly is thinking that any amount of years can force people to change their belief or ideological systems and practices. The only way the region "modernises" is through an Islamic renaissance, not invasion and occupation.

Afghanistan was an open and westernised country in the 70's, until Russia invaded, and the US funded and trained the religious mujahedeen to fight them. People have the right of self determination, and not Uk and US imperialism and pseudo-colonisation.

I agree that everyone is entitled to their beliefs in ideologies. But when you have a certain country/group in power that are committing terrorist attacks all over the world, you can’t just sit back and let it happen.

[Niamh.]

The main folly is thinking that any amount of years can force people to change their belief or ideological systems and practices. The only way the region "modernises" is through an Islamic renaissance, not invasion and occupation.

Afghanistan was an open and westernised country in the 70's, until Russia invaded, and the US funded and trained the religious mujahedeen to fight them. People have the right of self determination, and not Uk and US imperialism and pseudo-colonisation.

Sure but that's not much comfort to the women there who now have to get back to being non-human property with no autonomy

[The Slim Reaper]

I agree that everyone is entitled to their beliefs in ideologies. But when you have a certain country/group in power that are committing terrorist attacks all over the world, you can’t just sit back and let it happen.

They aren't committing terror attacks all over the world. World terrorism is funded by the Saudis, Pakistan, and maybe Iran in some instances.

[Oliver_W]

The thing that scares me the most is that we don’t know who is problematic and who isn’t, and that in itself is terrifying.

We should 100% be helping out refugees and those whose homes we have ruined within the last 20+ years. But at the same time, there will absolutely be a rise in terrorist attacks across the globe again.

Truly awful times.



Yup. There should be a hell of a lot of vetting before any refugees are accepted from that region.

[The Slim Reaper]

Sure but that's not much comfort to the women there who now have to get back to being non-human property with no autonomy

I agree, and what we've done to them is appalling as I've stated numerous times in this thread already. I was talking in general terms about the potential for terrorism, and the misguided thinking that occupation of any length will outlast them.

I don't support the actions taken by the US and the UK in the slightest.

[Nicky91]

The situation in Afghanistan is deeply important to Anoush Dastgir, the country's only 31-year-old national coach. Dastgir came to the Netherlands at a young age and tells De Telegraaf about the situation of one of his players who is in Afghanistan. Because of the seizure of power by the Taliban, he has to fear for his life.

As a footballer in the Netherlands, Dastgir just didn't make it to professional football and decided at a young age to focus on the coaching profession. He was appointed by the Afghan Football Association in 2018, becoming the youngest national coach ever. "I soon noticed that the national team had a huge influence on the rest of our country," said the proud Dastgir. "Previously, one television channel had the broadcasting rights, now there are four. The people of Afghanistan say that we are their only joy, that we are the only ones who put a smile on their faces. The connection grew so much that I started to delve more and more into politics."

Now that the Taliban have taken power in Afghanistan, football has become an afterthought in the country. "I have daily contact with my players via WhatsApp," dastgir says. "One is in western Afghanistan. He sent, "Trainer, I really need to cry that you send me a message. We are so powerless. Every day we wonder when they come to kill me, because I played for the national team." I didn't sleep for four or five nights. I can only hope that the Taliban do not invade his house and kill him. He just played for the people."

Dastgir's father, like him, has a Dutch passport, but went back to Afghanistan in 2004 to help the country. The national coach appeals to his father and the rest of the Afghan citizens. "This is the time when the Afghan people must ensure that the Taliban do not gain total power. The moment when they can retain their rights, which has been fought for for twenty years and for which people have been killed. Show once that it was not for nothing. If that doesn't happen, then in a month's time, when the media attention is gone, you will have no chance."

Dastgir thinks that his father should stay despite the extremely troubled situation. "It may hurt my father that I say this, but I don't want him to abandon his residents. He can take the plane, because he has a Dutch passport. But I don't want him to do that. I want him to be at the forefront of the fight if there is resistance. He went back to Afghanistan in 2004 to make a difference. Now there are problems and he should not leave."

Dastgir himself continues to monitor the situation from the Netherlands. "I went in a different direction and as a national coach in my field I have meant something to my country. I didn't grow up in Afghanistan. I do ask him to stay. No matter how bad it gets. Even if he were to die in battle. Then I am very sad, but at the same time very proud. Fight together and then you can win, draw or lose. That's the way it is for me, and that's the way it is for my father."

https://www.voetbalzone.nl/doc.asp?uid=392505

dutch article which i translated, felt interesting enough to share here

[bots]

Afghanistan's fugitive President Ashraf Ghani is in the United Arab Emirates, the Gulf state's foreign ministry has announced.

"The UAE Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation can confirm that the UAE has welcomed President Ashraf Ghani and his family into the country on humanitarian grounds," a spokesperson said in a statement.

Mr Ghani fled the capital Kabul on Sunday afternoon as Taliban fighters advanced on the city.

------

Apparently he also had $169 million in cash

[Cherie]

Afghanistan's fugitive President Ashraf Ghani is in the United Arab Emirates, the Gulf state's foreign ministry has announced.

"The UAE Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation can confirm that the UAE has welcomed President Ashraf Ghani and his family into the country on humanitarian grounds," a spokesperson said in a statement.

Mr Ghani fled the capital Kabul on Sunday afternoon as Taliban fighters advanced on the city.

------

Apparently he also had $169 million in cash

Just watched an interview with the British Ambassador who has stayed on along with a team of volunteers to process visas, what a contrast eh

[jet]

They aren't committing terror attacks all over the world. World terrorism is funded by the Saudis, Pakistan, and maybe Iran in some instances.

That's not quite the full story. The Taliban make millions upon millions annually from drug trafficking, extortion, ransoms and most of all opium production (over £300 million) in 2018 - 2019 alone.

[Cherie]

Where is Kamala Harris? If Biden won’t break off from his holidays surely she should be stepping up?

[The Slim Reaper]

That's not quite the full story. The Taliban make millions upon millions annually from drug trafficking, extortion, ransoms and most of all opium production (over £300 million) in 2018 - 2019 alone.

The CIA says hi.

[bots]

Where is Kamala Harris? If Biden won’t break off from his holidays surely she should be stepping up?

Boris spoke to Biden last night. Thats the first contact Biden has had with a foreign leader since it became obvious that the taliban were going to surge through the country. I don't think relations are good with the USA at all

[jet]

The CIA says hi.

:conf: What does that response mean?

[jet]

Where is Kamala Harris? If Biden won’t break off from his holidays surely she should be stepping up?

Proof she is as useless as he is.

[The Slim Reaper]

:conf: What does that response mean?

It means that the CIA have a history of doing exactly the same things.

[Beso]

Just watched an interview with the British Ambassador who has stayed on along with a team of volunteers to process visas, what a contrast eh

It is indeed.:wavey:

[Beso]

It means that the CIA have a history of doing exactly the same things.

Can you post links please.

[jet]

It means that the CIA have a history of doing exactly the same things.

This thread is about the Taliban activities. Your response is verging on making excuses for them.

[bots]

Can you post links please.

it's well known parm, thats what oliver north was involved in too

[Crimson Dynamo]

I did not think this biden presidency would have imploded so soon but there you go...

[The Slim Reaper]

This thread is about the Taliban activities. Your response is verging on making excuses for them.

No it isn't. I'm pointing out that what the Taliban is doing is nothing new.

[Cherie]

Boris spoke to Biden last night. Thats the first contact Biden has had with a foreign leader since it became obvious that the taliban were going to surge through the country. I don't think relations are good with the USA at all

Do we know how many refugees the US are planning to take, absolutely shocking that he should be on holiday and no one is asking why he is, this process was instigated by Trump, however he could have overturned it, and saying Trump would be out by 1st May while he has added four months to the schedule is just not good enough, the other thing is I see people standing up in Parliament today saying the evacuation should have started when Trump made the deal, makes sense but did anyone stand up in Parliament and ask for this before now

[Denver]

We created this mess, imagine controlling a country for decades then just walk away without a care in the world about what would happen

[bots]

Do we know how many refugees the US are planning to take, absolutely shocking that he should be on holiday and no one is asking why he is, this process was instigated by Trump, however he could have overturned it, and saying Trump would be out by 1st May while he has added four months to the schedule is just not good enough, the other thing is I see people standing up in Parliament today saying the evacuation should have started when Trump made the deal, makes sense but did anyone stand up in Parliament and ask for this before now

yeah, parliament has been available since the decision was made by trump.

Also, Biden wont admit it, but he is much closer to trump politically than he makes out. Compare and contrast trump to obama, and there is much more of a fundamental difference

[user104658]

I did not think this biden presidency would have imploded so soon but there you go...

Meh. People won't remember this in 2024.

[Crimson Dynamo]

meh. People won't remember this in 2024.

if he makes that date

[Alf]

All I'm saying is, this wouldn't be happening under Trump.

[bots]

Meh. People won't remember this in 2024.

the mid terms are next year ... it really depends on the scale of the fallout. If there is even a sniff of a terrorist attack against the usa, the dems are finished for a generation

[Denver]

All I'm saying is, this wouldn't be happening under Trump.

You do realise this is happening because of him?

[The Slim Reaper]

I don't think people really understand, that the only reason this is actually happening, is because it is overwhelmingly popular with the American public. Even 60% of dems approved the move. The needle might shift on that, of course, but at the moment, that's where it's at.

[user104658]

Also, Biden wont admit it, but he is much closer to trump politically than he makes out.

It's the only reason he ended up running. On balance it's still the right decision because we have world-ending issues coming into frame that Trump/Republicans in general don't believe in or give a **** about. We could have had several people 10x better but when it comes right down to it, Trump had to go.

[Alf]

You do realise this is happening because of him?It's a bit early in the day to be drunk.

[Alf]

I don't think people really understand, that the only reason this is actually happening, is because it is overwhelmingly popular with the American public. Even 60% of dems approved the move. The needle might shift on that, of course, but at the moment, that's where it's at.Bollox, it's because they're uncivilised, religious nut-jobs

[The Slim Reaper]

the mid terms are next year ... it really depends on the scale of the fallout. If there is even a sniff of a terrorist attack against the usa, the dems are finished for a generation

America is so polarized that I don't think this could be true for either party. I mean Bush increased popularity after 9/11 and the republicans, less than a year ago attempted a coup, and dems are still dems, and repubs are still repubs.

[The Slim Reaper]

Bollox, it's because they're uncivilised, religious nut-jobs

The Taliban aren't much better to be fair.

[bots]

America is so polarized that I don't think this could be true for either party. I mean Bush increased popularity after 9/11 and the republicans, less than a year ago attempted a coup, and dems are still dems, and repubs are still repubs.

well the world is basically ****ed up, so there is that :laugh:

[user104658]

I don't think people really understand, that the only reason this is actually happening, is because it is overwhelmingly popular with the American public. Even 60% of dems approved the move. The needle might shift on that, of course, but at the moment, that's where it's at.

It's not even surprising really, a 20 year occupation is ludicrous, but withdrawal should have been 1) started years ago (not even on Trump this one, it should have been in motion with Obama), 2) better organised, and 3) the entire political rebuilding of Afghanistan should have been handled better from the word go. The people and systems that were put in place were corrupt to the core, shady deals all round, and that is the main reason the Taliban have any support at all in the general Afghan population.

This is a failing that spans Bush to Biden and trying to absolve any of the 4 of blame is pointless.

[The Slim Reaper]

well the world is basically ****ed up, so there is that :laugh:

https://c.tenor.com/zzgcgLxejfEAAAAM/ok-bro.gif

[Crimson Dynamo]

Joe Biden bears a grave responsibility for the chaos in Afghanistan

The President’s handling of this sorry affair raises serious questions about his
ability to lead America and the free world


Joe Biden’s attempts to deflect blame away from the White House for the
Taliban’s seizure of power in Afghanistan are utterly lacking in conviction.
While the US President insists that he stands “squarely” by his unilateral
decision to withdraw American forces, the country’s rapid descent into chaos
since the fall of Kabul at the weekend suggests it has been nothing short of a
disaster, both for the future of the Afghan people and for America’s world
standing.

The President attempted to shift the blame onto his predecessor Donald
Trump, who negotiated the original deal with the Taliban, the Doha
Agreement, in February last year, and which laid the groundwork for
America’s military withdrawal. Mr Biden has also criticised the Afghan people
themselves for not heeding his call, made last week, to unite and “fight for
themselves”.

Mr Trump’s Taliban deal was far from perfect, as it was negotiated without
involving Afghanistan’s democratically-elected government. Nevertheless, the
basis of the agreement was that the completion of America’s military
withdrawal was contingent on the Taliban reaching a peace deal with Afghan
President Ashraf Ghani.

This vital requirement became obsolete the moment Mr Biden announced
that America was ending its 20-year-long involvement in Afghanistan in time
for next month’s anniversary of the September 11 attacks, which prompted
Washington’s military intervention in the first place.

With Afghanistan’s principal ally withdrawing its support at such a critical
juncture, it is perhaps hardly surprising that the country’s beleaguered
security forces lost the will to fight, and Mr Biden’s casual dismissal of their
efforts makes the American leader appear callous and uncaring.

Indeed, the President’s handling of this sorry affair raises serious questions
about his competence both as the leader of the free world and as America’s
commander-in-chief. Mr Biden assumed power in January promising to bring
political stability to Washington after the turbulence of the Trump era. Yet his
bungling of America’s exit from Afghanistan has resulted in the US suffering
arguably the greatest blow to its global prestige since Vietnam in the 1970s.
Mr Biden looks increasingly like a weak and isolated president, one whose
political fortunes may have suffered irreparable damage.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2021/08/17/joe-biden-bears-grave-responsibility-chaos-afghanistan/

[The Slim Reaper]

It's not even surprising really, a 20 year occupation is ludicrous, but withdrawal should have been 1) started years ago (not even on Trump this one, it should have been in motion with Obama), 2) better organised, and 3) the entire political rebuilding of Afghanistan should have been handled better from the word go. The people and systems that were put in place were corrupt to the core, shady deals all round, and that is the main reason the Taliban have any support at all in the general Afghan population.

This is a failing that spans Bush to Biden and trying to absolve any of the 4 of blame is pointless.

No argument from me on this.

[Alf]

While your attention is on this, election fraud is being exposed.

[jet]

No it isn't. I'm pointing out that what the Taliban is doing is nothing new.

...and I was reminding you that contributions from other countries are by no means the only way that the Taliban fund their terrorism as you didn't mention it.

[bots]

While your attention is on this, election fraud is being exposed.

https://media4.giphy.com/media/pHZbB5h1K8OaSkFquN/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e476z0f1kidsuzosog6un2kjm017kur 81z0ikepqew1

[Cherie]

I don't think people really understand, that the only reason this is actually happening, is because it is overwhelmingly popular with the American public. Even 60% of dems approved the move. The needle might shift on that, of course, but at the moment, that's where it's at.

The American people do not like to be humiliated and this is a humiliation and to add salt to the wound 9/21 will be forever linked with 9/11

[Alf]

https://media4.giphy.com/media/pHZbB5h1K8OaSkFquN/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e476z0f1kidsuzosog6un2kjm017kur 81z0ikepqew1I'm afraid your shutdown tactics don't work on a free person.

[The Slim Reaper]

...and I was reminding you that contributions from other countries are by no means the only way that the Taliban fund their terrorism as you didn't mention it.

The Taliban aren't a world terrorist threat. Like i said, it's the Saudis mainly, but there's a reason that we cow-tow to them who also treat their citizens appallingly, versus turning the Taliban into terror poster boys.

[The Slim Reaper]

The American people do not like to be humiliated and this is a humiliation and to add salt to the wound 9/21 will be forever linked with 9/11

They voted for trump, who then defended Putin against his own intelligence service. I'm pretty sure they're used to a bit of humiliation.

[bots]

I don't think people really understand, that the only reason this is actually happening, is because it is overwhelmingly popular with the American public. Even 60% of dems approved the move. The needle might shift on that, of course, but at the moment, that's where it's at.

of course it's popular, it would be popular here to if the withdrawal had gone well. I don't think most americans expected the catastrophe that panned out. I don't think i have ever heard the tories directly criticize america in the HoC before, and there was plenty of it today

[jet]

Joe Biden bears a grave responsibility for the chaos in Afghanistan

The President’s handling of this sorry affair raises serious questions about his
ability to lead America and the free world


Joe Biden’s attempts to deflect blame away from the White House for the
Taliban’s seizure of power in Afghanistan are utterly lacking in conviction.
While the US President insists that he stands “squarely” by his unilateral
decision to withdraw American forces, the country’s rapid descent into chaos
since the fall of Kabul at the weekend suggests it has been nothing short of a
disaster, both for the future of the Afghan people and for America’s world
standing.

The President attempted to shift the blame onto his predecessor Donald
Trump, who negotiated the original deal with the Taliban, the Doha
Agreement, in February last year, and which laid the groundwork for
America’s military withdrawal. Mr Biden has also criticised the Afghan people
themselves for not heeding his call, made last week, to unite and “fight for
themselves”.

Mr Trump’s Taliban deal was far from perfect, as it was negotiated without
involving Afghanistan’s democratically-elected government. Nevertheless, the
basis of the agreement was that the completion of America’s military
withdrawal was contingent on the Taliban reaching a peace deal with Afghan
President Ashraf Ghani.

This vital requirement became obsolete the moment Mr Biden announced
that America was ending its 20-year-long involvement in Afghanistan in time
for next month’s anniversary of the September 11 attacks, which prompted
Washington’s military intervention in the first place.

With Afghanistan’s principal ally withdrawing its support at such a critical
juncture, it is perhaps hardly surprising that the country’s beleaguered
security forces lost the will to fight, and Mr Biden’s casual dismissal of their
efforts makes the American leader appear callous and uncaring.

Indeed, the President’s handling of this sorry affair raises serious questions
about his competence both as the leader of the free world and as America’s
commander-in-chief. Mr Biden assumed power in January promising to bring
political stability to Washington after the turbulence of the Trump era. Yet his
bungling of America’s exit from Afghanistan has resulted in the US suffering
arguably the greatest blow to its global prestige since Vietnam in the 1970s.
Mr Biden looks increasingly like a weak and isolated president, one whose
political fortunes may have suffered irreparable damage.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2021/08/17/joe-biden-bears-grave-responsibility-chaos-afghanistan/

Absolutely agree with this. Biden must take the brunt of the responsibility, he is the President NOW and his actions alone decided the final outcome.
He is unfit for office and always was.

[Alf]

Absolutely agree with this. Biden must take the brunt of the responsibility, he is the President NOW and his actions alone decided the final outcome.
He is unfit for office and always was.Don't worry, he didn't win, the evidence is out there. Trump has it all, it was a sting job.

[bots]

can you imagine the next time america want to go in and intervene in a country on their promise of vast investment etc, it's not going to happen

[Alf]

War is very, very profitable to war-mongers. Not to mention it reduces the population, which is something we know the deep state wants.