UK Police are punchbags headlines and Pay freeze : Johnson PM Speech today.

[arista]

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[BBC Text:
A story about assaults faced by police, with the paper saying there
were 20,000 such incidents during the pandemic.
"Police are nation's 'punch bag'" is the headline, based on
a quote by West Yorkshire Police Chief Constable John Robins.]

[arista]

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[arista]

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[LaLaLand]

I agree.

[arista]

Its a shame
The Home Secretary
is not understanding the problems.

[Cherie]

It’s a disgrace really, they were front line workers in the pandemic

[Oliver_W]

All essential keyworkers are treated like crap by the media and the populace, and especially by the government...

[Cherie]

what I really don't understand is that the whole of the NHS will be rewarded, some of these are managers and administrators, physios, OTs, who worked from home throughout the pandemic, how difficult would it be to single out those who actually were on the front line and give them a decent pay rise of between 3% and 10% depending on pay grade and give the rest a nominal rise like everyone else in the public sector.

[user104658]

what I really don't understand is that the whole of the NHS will be rewarded, some of these are managers and administrators, physios, OTs, who worked from home throughout the pandemic, how difficult would it be to single out those who actually were on the front line and give them a decent pay rise of between 3% and 10% depending on pay grade and give the rest a nominal rise like everyone else in the public sector.


The NHS works on pay bands so… they’d have to completely restructure the entire NHS salary system. “Extremely difficult” is the answer.

[Ammi]

…it’s the same in education, any one ‘band’ has to have equality of salary …over the recent years it’s tended to be less about experience in staff and more about a lower band so that the salaries are kept as low as possible…

[Ammi]

…sign of the times sadly…as the saying goes…

[michael21]

It’s a disgrace really, they were front line workers in the pandemic

How come you say were pandemic is never going to end and the police are still on the front line :shrug:

[michael21]

…sign of the times sadly…as the saying goes…

I only no one person that says that tbf I only no two person :bawling::bawling::bawling:

[Nicky91]

number 1 front line workers for me are the NHS


or how many covid patients have the police force treated, oh wait




that said, police deserve bonusses too for all their hard work against those vile anti-lockdown, anti-vaxxer protesters

[Cherie]

How come you say were pandemic is never going to end and the police are still on the front line :shrug:

what? I never said the pandemic was never going to end, what I said was we would never eradicate Covid 19 same as the other 4 Corona viruses we live with , of course the police are on the front line they deal with the public every day, do you think they zoom criminals :omgno:

[Cherie]

number 1 front line workers for me are the NHS


or how many covid patients have the police force treated, oh wait




that said, police deserve bonusses too for all their hard work against those vile anti-lockdown, anti-vaxxer protesters

anyone who comes into constant contact with the public are front line

do you think the people who worked in supermarkets could stay home during the pandemic?

[user104658]

…it’s the same in education, any one ‘band’ has to have equality of salary …over the recent years it’s tended to be less about experience in staff and more about a lower band so that the salaries are kept as low as possible…

Me and my wife were talking about this re: the NHS the other day actually... once you get to band 7+ those are ward management/service management grades, so realistically the on-ward nurses doing most of the medical procedures etc. will often be maxed out at "top of band 5"... whether they've been a nurse for 5 years or 20 years. There should be SOME way to recognise that level of experience in the pay structure, but there isn't currently, the only way to increase salary after 5 years on a band is to get a job the next band up... and that usually means a change of role/type of work that not everyone wants. And like I said, at 7+ it generally means being less hands-on... definitely in a hospital setting anyway (lots of band 7 community roles with plenty of patient contact). Not everyone wants that but where's the incentive to retain that vast experience on the wards?

[Nicky91]

anyone who comes into constant contact with the public are front line

do you think the people who worked in supermarkets could stay home during the pandemic?

fair enough

[Cherie]

The NHS works on pay bands so… they’d have to completely restructure the entire NHS salary system. “Extremely difficult” is the answer.

Every public service works in pay bands

it would not be extremely difficult at all, first filter out the administrative grades who did not go into work, then the physios they are still working on Zoom, etc

[joeysteele]

anyone who comes into constant contact with the public are front line

do you think the people who worked in supermarkets could stay home during the pandemic?

I actually have to agree with this.

I think supermarket staff have just been forgotten and treated shabbily near all through.

As for this new or old revamped planning re crime and policing.

All this Home secretary seems to do is pile more work and pressures on the Police.
While not really increasing the numbers nor proper renumeration for all their efforts too.

[user104658]

Every public service works in pay bands

it would not be extremely difficult at all, first filter out the administrative grades who did not go into work, then the physios they are still working on Zoom, etc

But the salary is based on the band... you can't increase the salary of a band 5 front-line nurse without increasing the salary of a band 5 physio. You'd have to separate it into completely new salary scales. I'm not saying that's a bad idea entirely, I don't think the banding system works brilliantly a lot of the time e.g. if Nurses campaign for better Nurse pay... they are in fact asking for changes to the pay bands and so better pay across the entire NHS... many more staff, and thus a much bigger battle... I'm just saying it's not simple at all. Easy enough to selectively give one-off bonuses but to do "selective" permanent pay increases you'd need to do away with the current pay band system, and even if it would be a good idea, it certainly wouldn't be easy or simple.

[arista]

Johnson PM is Live today
talking about the Police.

[Cherie]

But the salary is based on the band... you can't increase the salary of a band 5 front-line nurse without increasing the salary of a band 5 physio. You'd have to separate it into completely new salary scales. I'm not saying that's a bad idea entirely, I don't think the banding system works brilliantly a lot of the time e.g. if Nurses campaign for better Nurse pay... they are in fact asking for changes to the pay bands and so better pay across the entire NHS... many more staff, and thus a much bigger battle... I'm just saying it's not simple at all. Easy enough to selectively give one-off bonuses but to do "selective" permanent pay increases you'd need to do away with the current pay band system, and even if it would be a good idea, it certainly wouldn't be easy or simple.

There is a away around it, we have pay relativity each year and even though we might be on the same band as someone else some get a one off payment if their performance has warranted it, that can be set to be given each year

I dont think 3% is enough for nurses, but is probably too much for admin staff and managers

[Ammi]

Me and my wife were talking about this re: the NHS the other day actually... once you get to band 7+ those are ward management/service management grades, so realistically the on-ward nurses doing most of the medical procedures etc. will often be maxed out at "top of band 5"... whether they've been a nurse for 5 years or 20 years. There should be SOME way to recognise that level of experience in the pay structure, but there isn't currently, the only way to increase salary after 5 years on a band is to get a job the next band up... and that usually means a change of role/type of work that not everyone wants. And like I said, at 7+ it generally means being less hands-on... definitely in a hospital setting anyway (lots of band 7 community roles with plenty of patient contact). Not everyone wants that but where's the incentive to retain that vast experience on the wards?

…in education, school size and school type …(…as in Primary or Upper…back in the day there was middle school as well but now it’s generally just primary and High School…)…would also be a factor and also the size of a school would factor….some of the out in the country schools are very tiny as stand alone sizes but in comparison to the larger ones which will have several hundred children on roll….the jobs are very difficult to compare like for like, aren’t they…?…and that’s why there have been so many varied pay bands and band points etc in the past…but the aim over the last few years is to equal them all…a year group teacher at one school to be paid the same as a year group teacher at another, regardless of any other factor …such as time served and experience etc…obviously the lowest pay grade is what the aim is…:laugh:…I mean having lots of NQT’s is excellent for ‘new blood’ and a school moving forward and being injected with new techniques etc…it does work well in some important aspects…


….hmmmmm, I’m not sure there is the same aim for recognition that there used to be just because recognition often means experience as you say…and experience often means a larger salary is being paid…:laugh:…and that’s not the aim, the aim is to reduce spending because the funding isn’t being made available or can’t be because it isn’t there….it’s a difficult one, though because it does give opportunities to newly trained staff as well so it keeps it moving and that has advantages…I guess what we’re finding more and more in Education…(…I’m not sure what your wife feels in the medical world…)…is that its less of a vocation than it used to be and often less of a long term career/forever career…

[michael21]

anyone who comes into constant contact with the public are front line

do you think the people who worked in supermarkets could stay home during the pandemic?

Yes it's call shelding

[ThomasC]

Can we all just take a moment to appreciate how beautiful Tom Daley is!!!!

OMG. Dream man

But, yeah, it's a kick in the teeth for the police who are not paid well anyway.

I agree with banding being very difficult to enforce different pay rises within the NHS. The banding system should be scrapped in my opinion.

I had previously been offered a job in the NHS, but it wasn't enough money for what I wanted to do so went elsewhere. Their interviewing is point scored as well so unless you say the exact right words regardless of experience it doesn't really matter. THat's my understanding anyway

I also hate the idea of not being able to do a job because you haven't got a piece of paper when you might have extensive experiencing actually doing it and insight that a lot of people wouldn't have.... but instead you have someone who goes university, gets the job and hasn't a clue. One of the reasons I didn't go University in the end. Wasn't worth it when I weighed everything up, but that's my personal opinion of how I felt wanting to go into a specific field of nursing.

I multi work with lots of professionals and the incompetance is astoundingly shocking. I love my job, but incompetance and laziness are my two biggest annoyances.... along with there just not being enough funding/services which makes my job difficult. Hands tied

[Cherie]

Can we all just take a moment to appreciate how beautiful Tom Daley is!!!!

OMG. Dream man

But, yeah, it's a kick in the teeth for the police who are not paid well anyway.

I agree with banding being very difficult to enforce different pay rises within the NHS. The banding system should be scrapped in my opinion.

I had previously been offered a job in the NHS, but it wasn't enough money for what I wanted to do so went elsewhere. Their interviewing is point scored as well so unless you say the exact right words regardless of experience it doesn't really matter. THat's my understanding anyway

I also hate the idea of not being able to do a job because you haven't got a piece of paper when you might have extensive experiencing actually doing it and insight that a lot of people wouldn't have.... but instead you have someone who goes university, gets the job and hasn't a clue. One of the reasons I didn't go University in the end. Wasn't worth it when I weighed everything up, but that's my personal opinion of how I felt wanting to go into a specific field of nursing.

I multi work with lots of professionals and the incompetance is astoundingly shocking. I love my job, but incompetance and laziness are my two biggest annoyances.... along with there just not being enough funding/services which makes my job difficult. Hands tied

I hear you!

[Cherie]

Yes it's call shelding

what about those that didn't need to shield, they had to go to work and have been totally forgotten about

[Beso]

When you can report a burglary to the police and not see one officer for weeks but walk up to a police station with a mobile phone and you get surrounded by 4 or 5 police officers within minutes, for an hour, you know there something wrong with the prioritising by the police

[user104658]

Can we all just take a moment to appreciate how beautiful Tom Daley is!!!!

OMG. Dream man

But, yeah, it's a kick in the teeth for the police who are not paid well anyway.

I agree with banding being very difficult to enforce different pay rises within the NHS. The banding system should be scrapped in my opinion.

I had previously been offered a job in the NHS, but it wasn't enough money for what I wanted to do so went elsewhere. Their interviewing is point scored as well so unless you say the exact right words regardless of experience it doesn't really matter. THat's my understanding anyway

I also hate the idea of not being able to do a job because you haven't got a piece of paper when you might have extensive experiencing actually doing it and insight that a lot of people wouldn't have.... but instead you have someone who goes university, gets the job and hasn't a clue. One of the reasons I didn't go University in the end. Wasn't worth it when I weighed everything up, but that's my personal opinion of how I felt wanting to go into a specific field of nursing.

I multi work with lots of professionals and the incompetance is astoundingly shocking. I love my job, but incompetance and laziness are my two biggest annoyances.... along with there just not being enough funding/services which makes my job difficult. Hands tied

Nursing is a professional registration so it has to have higher education attached; there's very robust information about how this increases patient safety. That said, there is a pretty major problem at the moment, in that we have a major shortage of health professionals (made even worse by Brexit) and - because the entry salary just isn't attractive enough - Universities are having a tough time attracting the best candidates, and so entry requirements are kept low... and "passing" requirements also low (40% :umm2: ) so basically you have an awful low of mediocre skill/mediocre ability people coming through who inevitably make mediocre or worse professionals.

But they can't raise requirements because we're already in a situation where there are critical staff shortages and not enough in training as it is.

The answer though as always is money. Better funded education with proper living costs covered, and better salaries to make it more attractive as a career choice and thus more competetive.

[arista]

If you are an Online Offender
The prime minster says you will be cleaning the street.
With a Bright vest on.


Do not do the crime

[arista]

Dilyn the Jack Russell is constantly humping
people's legs in Downing Street,
Boris reveals - as he asks police dog handler for
advice on how to contain canine 'romantic urges'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9830737/Dilyn-constantly-humping-peoples-legs-Downing-Street-Boris-reveals.html


https://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-reveals-romantic-urges-of-downing-st-dog-with-dilyn-liking-peoples-legs-12365643

[ThomasC]

Nursing is a professional registration so it has to have higher education attached; there's very robust information about how this increases patient safety. That said, there is a pretty major problem at the moment, in that we have a major shortage of health professionals (made even worse by Brexit) and - because the entry salary just isn't attractive enough - Universities are having a tough time attracting the best candidates, and so entry requirements are kept low... and "passing" requirements also low (40% :umm2: ) so basically you have an awful low of mediocre skill/mediocre ability people coming through who inevitably make mediocre or worse professionals.

But they can't raise requirements because we're already in a situation where there are critical staff shortages and not enough in training as it is.

The answer though as always is money. Better funded education with proper living costs covered, and better salaries to make it more attractive as a career choice and thus more competetive.

Yep

[Beso]

If you are an Online Offender
The prime minster says you will be cleaning the street.
With a Bright vest on.


Do not do the crime



Can I please request the meetings from the next tibb moderators meeting, under the freedom of information act.

[arista]

Can I please request the meetings from the next tibb moderators meeting, under the freedom of information act.


No

[joeysteele]

If you are an Online Offender
The prime minster says you will be cleaning the street.
With a Bright vest on.


Do not do the crime

I'm sorry to be a party pooper however I'd guess probably a good number of those made to do this.
Would unfortunately see the bright vest as a badge of honour.

Rather than a punishment.

[Beso]

I'm sorry to be a party pooper however I'd guess probably a good number of those made to do this.
Would unfortunately see the bright vest as a badge of honour.

Rather than a punishment.

Community service isnt enjoyable.

[joeysteele]

Community service isnt enjoyable.

Nobody said it was or should be enjoyable.
Being arrested wouldn't be enjoyable.

It doesn't stop some probably seeing it as a badge of honour to their mates and others.

Don't know where enjoyable was said but it wasn't even in my post at all that word.

[AnnieK]

But the salary is based on the band... you can't increase the salary of a band 5 front-line nurse without increasing the salary of a band 5 physio. You'd have to separate it into completely new salary scales. I'm not saying that's a bad idea entirely, I don't think the banding system works brilliantly a lot of the time e.g. if Nurses campaign for better Nurse pay... they are in fact asking for changes to the pay bands and so better pay across the entire NHS... many more staff, and thus a much bigger battle... I'm just saying it's not simple at all. Easy enough to selectively give one-off bonuses but to do "selective" permanent pay increases you'd need to do away with the current pay band system, and even if it would be a good idea, it certainly wouldn't be easy or simple.

I worked with the NHS providing admin, clerical and secretarial staff when they went through Agenda for Change bringing in the current bandings and spine points. It was a nightmare....the amount of changes, errors etc they made to try and structure all the grades was amazing and it took ages to implement properly throughout the Trusts. Lots of jobs were downgraded from their previous bandings. It would cause merry hell if they changed it again.

Although, I do like Cherie's plan of paying bonuses to the staff that actual were front facing with patients

[Beso]

Nobody said it was or should be enjoyable.
Being arrested wouldn't be enjoyable.

It doesn't stop some probably seeing it as a badge of honour to their mates and others.

Don't know where enjoyable was said but it wasn't even in my post at all that word.

You simply wouldnt brag about it if it wasnt enjoyable.

Trolling is probably enjoyable to them, but I doubt they brag to their mates about doing that.:shrug:

[Oliver_W]

If you are an Online Offender
The prime minster says you will be cleaning the street.
With a Bright vest on.


Do not do the crime

That's ridiculous. Short of actual threats of violence or peddling non-consenting porn, nothing done on the internet should be considered a "crime".

[arista]

That's ridiculous. Short of actual threats of violence or peddling non-consenting porn, nothing done on the internet should be considered a "crime".


No there is Online
Fools using violence threats
that is now a crime.

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1420256745943883777/pYuKs42f?format=jpg&name=small

[user104658]

I worked with the NHS providing admin, clerical and secretarial staff when they went through Agenda for Change bringing in the current bandings and spine points. It was a nightmare....the amount of changes, errors etc they made to try and structure all the grades was amazing and it took ages to implement properly throughout the Trusts. Lots of jobs were downgraded from their previous bandings. It would cause merry hell if they changed it again.

Although, I do like Cherie's plan of paying bonuses to the staff that actual were front facing with patients

They did pay bonuses... definitely in Scotland anyway, they paid them in April. I'm not sure about UK wide. It was "only" £500 though so whilst better than a poke in the eye with a stick... it only works out as £40 a month for the year. The pay raise up here was 4% too, which was thought of as generous when England was only giving 1% but seems a little tokenistic now if England is 3% :laugh:.

[Beso]

Hopefully it means an end to these ignorant coppers.

https://youtu.be/qs4mcv5BrWI

[arista]

Hopefully it means an end to these ignorant coppers.

https://youtu.be/qs4mcv5BrWI



He is doing the Same thing that trouble maker
Alf posted


Those Coppers in the Station
were fine.

[Beso]

He is doing the Same thing that trouble maker
Alf posted


Those Coppers in the Station
were fine.

They were blocking all his attempts at reporting online death threats to him and his family. Mocking him at times.

All because he was filming.

[arista]

They were blocking all his attempts at reporting online death threats to him and his family. Mocking him at times.

All because he was filming.


Sure if the Phone post is true?

[Beso]

Sure if the Phone post is true?

They were blocking all his attempts and mocking him before he showed them the evidence.

So wether it is real or fake does not come into it. their attitude to how they deal with online threats just shows what the public are up against. Or were, before boris latest announcement.

[ThomasC]

That's ridiculous. Short of actual threats of violence or peddling non-consenting porn, nothing done on the internet should be considered a "crime".

It isn't ridiculous at all.

So someone could be asking underage children online for pornographic images of themselves...... that's not a crime?

County lines are recruiting online, that shouldn't be a crime?

Children are being recruited to join terrorist organisation through video games/ online websites, that shouldn't be a crime?

I think there are many crimes being comitted online, including hate speech and people should be held accountable. They most likely wouldn't do it in real life so why let it be acceptable/do it online?