Trans activists vs Womens activists

[Alf]

Piers gets called the C word on live TV by the trans activist and the womans activist proudly admits that she's transphobic.

The lengths Piers goes to to get viewers.


3CZPRhFe9pE

[UserSince2005]

im backing trans for the win.

[Alf]

I don't know what it's all about but from what I can work out is that women's activists were gathering at the Emmeline Pankhurst statue in Manchester and some Trans activists dressed in all black with their faces covered surrounded the statue. There were minor clashes.

[Alf]

I knew JK Rowlings Twitter account would be a good source of information on what's been taking place. I'm off to read the comments in her tweets, I know it will be top quality entertainment.


1525945847929876489

[bots]

im sorry if i offend someone by saying this, but i think it would be an extremely rare event to have a biological woman come on to a tv program and speak in that tone, and that person is clearly their nominated spokesperson

[Oliver_W]

I don't know what it's all about but from what I can work out is that women's activists were gathering at the Emmeline Pankhurst statue in Manchester and some Trans activists dressed in all black with their faces covered surrounded the statue. There were minor clashes.

Yeah, the women were going to have some kind of event, and the Men's Rights Activists formed some kind of blockade.

[Alf]

1526093179711377408

[Alf]

I had to Google what a TERF is, that's a new one for me. I thought it was a grassy lawn.

[Cherie]

Kellie Jay :love: She would be labelled a terf anyway so may as well accept it rather than arguing against it, she got her point across well


The other lady was quite vicious and I am sure genuine trans woman are horrified to be represented by ‘her’

[ThomasC]

I don't understand why women feel threatened by trans women.

I'm happy to be educated on the matter.

There needs to be fairness so I disagree with a trans woman being able to compete in a sports event for example.

[bots]

I don't understand why women feel threatened by trans women.

I'm happy to be educated on the matter.

There needs to be fairness so I disagree with a trans woman being able to compete in a sports event for example.

Seriously, you don't find that behaviour above threatening?

[ThomasC]

Seriously, you don't find that behaviour above threatening?

In the video? Yes I do, but that's not all trans women, is it?

It's a cult of nut jobs

[bots]

its all people supporting their movement

[Oliver_W]

Women deserve their own spaces, and transwomen entering women's spaces nullifies them.

[Alf]

Women deserve their own spaces, and transwomen entering women's spaces nullifies them.Do men deserve their own spaces? and does trans-women entering men's spaces nullify them?

[Oliver_W]

does trans-women entering men's spaces nullify them?

Well no, transwomen are male so that's fine :shrug:

[ThomasC]

Women deserve their own spaces, and transwomen entering women's spaces nullifies them.


Nonsense. You're part of the problem with an attitude like that

[Oliver_W]

Nonsense. You're part of the problem with an attitude like that

How so?

[Alf]

Well no, transwomen are male so that's fine :shrug:But what if you were in the locker room alone with this and politely said "Good morning sir" to make conversation?

RJHctyXPmkg

[Oliver_W]

But what if you were in the locker room alone with this and politely said "Good morning sir" to make conversation?

RJHctyXPmkg

I don't call anyone sir, I am Sir.

(Love that video btw)

[ThomasC]

How so?

Well why do women deserve their own spaces? And when you say spaces, what are you referring to?

It's not a competition. How do trans women nullify women's spaces? Again, what spaces?

[ThomasC]

Well no, transwomen are male so that's fine :shrug:

Biologically they were born as a male and then of they decide go through the change and then identify as women.

They're not still male.

[ThomasC]

Sex and gender.

Sex is determined at birth with genitalia which can later be changed in life. Gender is how you identify yourself.

[Alf]

I think this war between the trans activists and the women's activists is going to get worse before it gets better. There's obviously bad blood between the two sides and the usual outcome to get rid of bad blood is to get it spilt.

[Oliver_W]

Well why do women deserve their own spaces?
Single sex spaces (bathrooms and changing areas, refuges, prisons), it should go without saying why women deserve them.

How do trans women nullify women's spaces?
Because they're not women.

Biologically they were born as a male and then of they decide go through the change and then identify as women.

They're not still male.
You can't change your biological sex. They absolutely are still male. Gender identity has about as much sway over the physical as does religion.

[Nicky91]

Piers being insulted doesn't surprise me anymore and anything that little troll says is stinking rubbish


let him get shipped off to Ukraine too pls, if he thinks the war there is ''fake'' his latest disgusting tweet, maybe he should fight in the frontline :hehe:

[ThomasC]

Single sex spaces (bathrooms and changing areas, refuges, prisons), it should go without saying why women deserve them.


Because they're not women.


You can't change your biological sex. They absolutely are still male. Gender identity has about as much sway over the physical as does religion.

I don't see an issue if you've gone through the change why you would not be able to use the same facilities.

Transwomen have rights too.

[user104658]

Well why do women deserve their own spaces? And when you say spaces, what are you referring to?

It's not a competition. How do trans women nullify women's spaces? Again, what spaces?


Safeguarding.

I thought you worked in healthcare Thomas? If it needs more explanation than that one word I’m a little concerned.

Anyway, in the spirit of a good faith discussion: it’s not about “all trans people being dangerous” or anything of the sort, it’s about the push for and incoming likely adoption of “self-ID” laws that will completely remove the ability for women-only spaces to be kept safe from predatory men (not trans people) who can simply declare themselves transgender in order to access those spaces, and challenging that self declaration will be illegal.

The counter argument seems to be that “predators won’t do that” but that’s so laughably false it’s not even worth debating. Of course they will.

[Alf]

Oh dear, what a pickle we've got ourselves in!

I'll stock up on popcorn.

[user104658]

I don't see an issue if you've gone through the change why you would not be able to use the same facilities.

Transwomen have rights too.


I agree that trans people who have transitioned should be able to and trans identifying people who are in the process should have special provision made so that they don’t have to use any gendered space.

The problem is that the current movement is not about traditional transsexuality where people actually transition, it’s the new “gender identity” philosophy that you can just declare your gender and that’s that, no matter how you present. I think maybe there’s an idea that that isn’t what’s happening but… it is.

I personally think “new gender ideology” is going to end up utterly trashing trans rights as well. It renders the entire concept of gender meaningless, and that is ENTIRELY incompatible with someone considering themselves to be trans.

[Oliver_W]

I don't see an issue if you've gone through the change why you would not be able to use the same facilities.

Transwomen have rights too.

"The Change" :joker:

Whatever they change about themselves, they're male. Michael Jackson didn't become caucasian, Elton John's wigs don't reverse hair loss.

[Cherie]

Safeguarding.

I thought you worked in healthcare Thomas? If it needs more explanation than that one word I’m a little concerned.

Anyway, in the spirit of a good faith discussion: it’s not about “all trans people being dangerous” or anything of the sort, it’s about the push for and incoming likely adoption of “self-ID” laws that will completely remove the ability for women-only spaces to be kept safe from predatory men (not trans people) who can simply declare themselves transgender in order to access those spaces, and challenging that self declaration will be illegal.

The counter argument seems to be that “predators won’t do that” but that’s so laughably false it’s not even worth debating. Of course they will.


.

and people can claim that this wont happen or it will only happen in a small number of cases which of course may be the case, however one dead or asualted woman is one too many

[ThomasC]

"The Change" :joker:

Whatever they change about themselves, they're male. Michael Jackson didn't become caucasian, Elton John's wigs don't reverse hair loss.


The lack of empathy is astounding. Thankfully you've never struggled with gender identity. You can be as padantic as you want.

I don't give a **** whether a female who use to be a male wants to use a bathroom labelled male or visa versa. I'm more bothered about people being happy rather than getting my knickers in a twist over something that doesn't affect me.

If they have transitioned I don't see an issue with. I am all for equality and fairness.

For example, I don't think it's fair that someone who has transitioned should compete in certain sports events.

But I think we should be more accepting and diverse. Unfortunately we're not. It's very sad

[Alf]

What do men think about trans-men sharing their spaces? I only ever see the argument about trans-women and women's spaces.

[ThomasC]

What do men think about trans-men sharing their spaces? I only ever see the argument about trans-women and women's spaces.

No issue.

[Nicky91]

it's all a mental thing, born into the wrong body


everybody should be allowed who he or she is for themselves




but i'm not going into this discussion because it has no point talking towards some people who think they know it better

[Niamh.]

The lack of empathy is astounding. Thankfully you've never struggled with gender identity. You can be as padantic as you want.

I don't give a **** whether a female who use to be a male wants to use a bathroom labelled male or visa versa. I'm more bothered about people being happy rather than getting my knickers in a twist over something that doesn't affect me.

If they have transitioned I don't see an issue with. I am all for equality and fairness.

For example, I don't think it's fair that someone who has transitioned should compete in certain sports events.

But I think we should be more accepting and diverse. Unfortunately we're not. It's very sad

Toy Soldiers posts explain it pretty well. You keep saying "if they have transitioned" this is where the problem lies with this "new wave" of trans ideology, the traditional transexual is pretty much being taken over by the idea that sexed bodies aren't even a thing anymore, women can have penises, men can have vaginas etc etc This is of course a massive issue for safe guarding for women and an attack on our right to single sex spaces.

[Alf]

No issue.No issue for me either, but I can see why women would have an issue. Mainly for some of the points that Toy Soldier said about sexual predators taking advantage of the laws.

[ThomasC]

.

and people can claim that this wont happen or it will only happen in a small number of cases which of course may be the case, however one dead or asualted woman is one too many

What's the alternative solution? That we victimise a whole group of people? Make them feel more isolated?

Assaults happen in bathrooms regardless. I think it's a balancing act.

[Niamh.]

What's the alternative solution? That we victimise a whole group of people? Make them feel more isolated?

Assaults happen in bathrooms regardless. I think it's a balancing act.

So the solution is taking away safe guarding because "it could happen anyway"? That's crazy, I mean would you think it's ok to take away Police vetting for example of people who want to work with children because "abusers will find away anyway"?

What about the violent men who identify as women so they can be housed in the women's estates in prisons? This has happened by the way. And I say men because these people have not transitioned.

[ThomasC]

Toy Soldiers posts explain it pretty well. You keep saying "if they have transitioned" this is where the problem lies with this "new wave" of trans ideology, the traditional transexual is pretty much being taken over by the idea that sexed bodies aren't even a thing anymore, women can have penises, men can have vaginas etc etc This is of course a massive issue for safe guarding for women and an attack on our right to single sex spaces.

There will always be people who will abuse it unfortunately. We'll agree to disagree on this one. There will always be risks. People get assaulted in bathrooms regardless of trans or not. You have cubicles anyway.

[Niamh.]

There will always be people who will abuse it unfortunately. We'll agree to disagree on this one. There will always be risks. People get assaulted in bathrooms regardless of trans or not. You have cubicles anyway.

I will never agree to disagree on this subject I'm afraid Thomas, it's too important for the safety of women and girls. Why should women and girls be "acceptable collateral damage" just to validate a man's feelings? We should not and we will not.

[bots]

There will always be people who will abuse it unfortunately. We'll agree to disagree on this one. There will always be risks. People get assaulted in bathrooms regardless of trans or not. You have cubicles anyway.

your disdain for what amounts to 50% of the worlds population is pretty abhorrent from my perspective. So by your same logic, lets not raise our voices about gays being thrown off of rooftops in muslim countries, lets not speak out and try and protect them. Does that sound ok to you?

[user104658]

What's the alternative solution? That we victimise a whole group of people? Make them feel more isolated?

Assaults happen in bathrooms regardless. I think it's a balancing act.


It is but that balancing act should not include male-bodied people who still largely present as men having access to women’s facilities based on “gender identity”.

Trans status is a protected characteristic and has been for YEARS. “Gender identity” is not and there’s no reason for it to be. That is the balance. Transitioned people have been using these facilities for years without challenge. Current trans rights activism is trying to push it into this nebulous area of gender ideology and that is the issue… people just don’t seem willing to even discuss that and push it back to being about trans women as the term has classically been understood… I can only guess because they know it is very hard to make a good case for what’s actually being discussed, thus easier to make out that those with concerns are just bigoted about trans issues in general.

[Cherie]

its not just about bathrooms I don't know why people get hung up on bathrooms, for example Thomas do you think a transwoman with a penis who has been assaulted by her partner should have access to a woman only refuge?

[ThomasC]

So the solution is taking away safe guarding because "it could happen anyway"? That's crazy, I mean would you think it's ok to take away Police vetting for example of people who want to work with children because "abusers will find away anyway"?

What about the violent men who identify as women so they can be housed in the women's estates in prisons? This has happened by the way. And I say men because these people have not transitioned.

Nope, your words not mine.

Also vetting to work with children is completely different.

You're assuming that someone who has transitioned shouldn't use a female bathroom because they might be, what, violent, towards another female or not use it as intended? Yes, of course, it is a possibility. Just like it's a possibility that I could be attacked in a male bathroom

I don't know what the solution is, but I just think it's a shame that someone who genuinely identifies as a woman and has undergone hormone replacement therapy and changed their genitalia would still be expected to use a male bathroom and feel ridiculed, embarrassment for it

[ThomasC]

I will never agree to disagree on this subject I'm afraid Thomas, it's too important for the safety of women and girls. Why should women and girls be "acceptable collateral damage" just to validate a man's feelings? We should not and we will not.

So you are not accepting that they have gone through the change them as you say a 'man's feelings'

[Niamh.]

Nope, your words not mine.

Also vetting to work with children is completely different.

You're assuming that someone who has transitioned shouldn't use a female bathroom because they might be, what, violent, towards another female or not use it as intended? Yes, of course, it is a possibility. Just like it's a possibility that I could be attacked in a male bathroom

I don't know what the solution is, but I just think it's a shame that someone who genuinely identifies as a woman and has undergone hormone replacement therapy and changed their genitalia would still be expected to use a male bathroom and feel ridiculed, embarrassment for it

You're going back to "who has transitioned" again so respectfully, maybe you should read up a little bit more on the current thinking from the trans activists side on this because we're not arguing the same points here at all

[Alf]

Let's create a possible scenario.

A young girl of school age goes into the changing room at the swimming baths and the only person in there is a trans-woman that still has their meat and two veg in tact and has it all out on display. Do you not see a problem with that Thomas?

[Niamh.]

So you are not accepting that they have gone through the change them as you say a 'man's feelings'

Again, you're arguing a different point here to what the current line of thinking on this ideology is. We're not talking about fully transitioned transsexuals here at all, as TS has pointed out already these people have been using women's bathrooms etc for years with no real issues from women. These people are not the problem

[user104658]

No issue.


Trans men pose no realistic risk to biological males. Trying to equate the two is nonsense. If I walk into the men’s toilets and a woman is stood there … what is the implication? What’s the threat? Nothing, If just assume they walked into the wrong room.

If a woman walks into a womens toilets and there’s a 6’ 200lb bloke stood there the threat is very real and immediate. Is that because all men are dangerous? Obviously not - he might just have gone in the wrong door too - that’s not the point.

[ThomasC]

your disdain for what amounts to 50% of the worlds population is pretty abhorrent from my perspective. So by your same logic, lets not raise our voices about gays being thrown off of rooftops in muslim countries, lets not speak out and try and protect them. Does that sound ok to you?



I've just put my point across from what I feel would be the perspective of someone who has gone through that transition. Of course there are risks.

How can you compare someone who has transitioned and whether they can or cannot use a slmale and female bathroom to Muslims, Sharia law and being chucked off buildings. Ridiculous

[Oliver_W]

I don't give a **** whether a female who use to be a male wants to use a bathroom labelled male or visa versa.
There's no such thing as a "female who used to be male", you can't change being male or female.

I'm more bothered about people being happy rather than getting my knickers in a twist over something that doesn't affect me.
Well, as long as You're All Right Jack.


If they have transitioned I don't see an issue with.
There's no such thing as someone having transitioned, there's just male and female people who try to appear as the opposite, maybe with the aid of cross-sex hormones and/or surgery.

What do men think about trans-men sharing their spaces? I only ever see the argument about trans-women and women's spaces.
It's not as much of a talking point because of male socialisation, men are more likely to demand what they want, and in this case it's case to women's spaces.

its not just about bathrooms I don't know why people get hung up on bathrooms, for example Thomas do you think a transwoman with a penis who has been assaulted by her partner have access to a woman's refuge?
Bathrooms may be over-represented in the discussion, but it's quite simple - as soon as a transwoman enters a woman's bathroom, it ceases to be a woman-only space. Bathrooms are more accessible and universal than sports or refuges.

[ThomasC]

its not just about bathrooms I don't know why people get hung up on bathrooms, for example Thomas do you think a transwoman with a penis who has been assaulted by her partner should have access to a woman only refuge?

I'm not sure as they haven't gone through the full transition. They need support regardless. My view is that if that was how they identified them would it be fair for me to judge?

[Nicky91]

let's not just in eurovision create a better world of love and peace, but let's also do that in the real world


and i myself respect all activists but it would be better if we wouldn't need them anymore if the world only had good people


one of our tv preachers ''Dominee Gremdaat'' said it in a speech like that last night on one of my nation's talkshows Half8

[Niamh.]

I'm not sure as they haven't gone through the full transition. They need support regardless. My view is that if that was how they identified them would it be fair for me to judge?

As a man it's nice and comfortable to be that kind and charitable but there's no real threat to men by being nice and accommodating to any one who says they're the opposite sex, is there?

[Alf]

The logical solution would be for Trans-women to have their own spaces, but even that creates a problem because that costs money and it would be wasted money for a very small percentage of society. For example you wouldn't want to waste money on a prison for a very small amount of criminals.

[Liam-]

What's the alternative solution? That we victimise a whole group of people? Make them feel more isolated?

That’s exactly what the anti-trans movement want to do, they’d quite happily take away the already existing rights of trans people to share spaces, all on the chance that a tiny minority of people would be willing to abuse it, all while shouting that it’s their rights that are being taken away, it’s actually pretty laughable, even more so considering these people are actually in the minority themselves considering polling that’s been done, the majority of women have no issue with transwomen using the same bathrooms as them.

But take note of the type of person they use to whip up fear though, they’re constantly talking about the ‘big, buff, bearded men’ that want to use their toilets, it’s purposeful, it’s tactless and quite frankly it’s bigoted at its core, but hey, we’re not allowed to have opinions on it because we’re gay men, so I’d stop now if I were you.

[Oliver_W]

The logical solution would be for Trans-women to have their own spaces, but even that creates a problem because that costs money and it would be wasted money for a very small percentage of society. For example you wouldn't want to waste money on a prison for a very small amount of criminals.

They don't need a separate space, male spaces already exist :shrug:
If they don't want to use those, there are always disabled toilets etc

[Niamh.]

That’s exactly what the anti-trans movement want to do, they’d quite happily take away the already existing rights of trans people to share spaces, all on the chance that a tiny minority of people would be willing to abuse it, all while shouting that it’s their rights that are being taken away, it’s actually pretty laughable, even more so considering these people are actually in the minority themselves considering polling that’s been done, the majority of women have no issue with transwomen using the same bathrooms as them.

But take note of the type of person they use to whip up fear though, they’re constantly talking about the ‘big, buff, bearded men’ that want to use their toilets, it’s purposeful, it’s tactless and quite frankly it’s bigoted at its core, but hey, we’re not allowed to have opinions on it because we’re gay men, so I’d stop now if I were you.

I mean you post that on this thread with the video that's attached.....

[Alf]

They don't need a separate space, male spaces already exist :shrug:
If they don't want to use those, there are always disabled toilets etcBut they don't want to use male spaces so then they become victims and start sueing people.

[user104658]

I'm not sure as they haven't gone through the full transition. They need support regardless. My view is that if that was how they identified them would it be fair for me to judge?

The bit in bold is considered transphobic according to current TRA doctrine, just FYI; you are now a transphobe. Welcome! It's a very non-exclusive club with ridiculously low entry requirements (any dissent from the dogma will do the trick).

For the second part... it's not about "judging" it's about safeguarding, and I'm now genuinely concerned that you actually DON'T understand what safeguarding is. It's not about judgement. It's not about thinking people are definitely a risk. It's about understanding and accepting that a tiny proportion of people ARE a risk, and taking appropriate measures to reduce that risk.

Imagine someone going for a job working with vulnerable kids and declaring "How dare you accuse me of being a risk to kids???" when asked for their disclosure documentation.

[ThomasC]

As a man it's nice and comfortable to be that kind and charitable but there's no real threat to men by being nice and accommodating to any one who says they're the opposite sex, is there?

Yes there is threat, but I would say more likely less of a threat.

Under equality law and protected characteristic, gender reassignment being one of them a decision made to deny someone, for example, to use a female bathroom would have to be proportionate.

I found this article very balanced and fair

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/trans-women-toilets-changing-rooms-rules-b992398.html

[ThomasC]

That’s exactly what the anti-trans movement want to do, they’d quite happily take away the already existing rights of trans people to share spaces, all on the chance that a tiny minority of people would be willing to abuse it, all while shouting that it’s their rights that are being taken away, it’s actually pretty laughable, even more so considering these people are actually in the minority themselves considering polling that’s been done, the majority of women have no issue with transwomen using the same bathrooms as them.

But take note of the type of person they use to whip up fear though, they’re constantly talking about the ‘big, buff, bearded men’ that want to use their toilets, it’s purposeful, it’s tactless and quite frankly it’s bigoted at its core, but hey, we’re not allowed to have opinions on it because we’re gay men, so I’d stop now if I were you.

Nice to read I'm not going 100% mad in my thought process.

Like you say, a minority of people would abuse it just like anything in life, hey?

Nice to hear about the polling.

[user104658]

That’s exactly what the anti-trans movement want to do, they’d quite happily take away the already existing rights of trans people to share spaces, all on the chance that a tiny minority of people would be willing to abuse it, all while shouting that it’s their rights that are being taken away, it’s actually pretty laughable, even more so considering these people are actually in the minority themselves considering polling that’s been done, the majority of women have no issue with transwomen using the same bathrooms as them.

But take note of the type of person they use to whip up fear though, they’re constantly talking about the ‘big, buff, bearded men’ that want to use their toilets, it’s purposeful, it’s tactless and quite frankly it’s bigoted at its core, but hey, we’re not allowed to have opinions on it because we’re gay men, so I’d stop now if I were you.

The majority of people don't know about the push for self-ID changes to the law (including people on this thread; or at least they pretend not to) so that part's pretty meaningless. Self-IS opens up a massive loophole that allows men (not trans women) access to women-only spaces. That can and will be exploited (and already has been; assaults and rapes have already occurred). That's going to continue to be the case no matter how hard you try to pretend it isn't, or that the "real issue" is "transphobes having a problem with genuine trans people". You simply don't want to discuss the actual issue so you repeatedly make it about something else, and insist that the issue people are concerned about doesn't exist.

[Niamh.]

Yes there is threat, but I would say more likely less of a threat.

Under equality law and protected characteristic, gender reassignment being one of them a decision made to deny someone, for example, to use a female bathroom would have to be proportionate.

I found this article very balanced and fair

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/trans-women-toilets-changing-rooms-rules-b992398.html

Key word here being Gender reassignment Thomas not Gender Identity. You keep avoiding this part of the discussion

[user104658]

Yes there is threat, but I would say more likely less of a threat.

Under equality law and protected characteristic, gender reassignment being one of them a decision made to deny someone, for example, to use a female bathroom would have to be proportionate.

I found this article very balanced and fair

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/trans-women-toilets-changing-rooms-rules-b992398.html

Gender reassignment and gender identity are not the same thing. There's no point discussing this issue at all with someone who doesn't (or refuses to) understand that.

[Oliver_W]

When talking about things in the abstract, I'm sure a lot of women wouldn't have a problem with transwomen in their spaces and sports. But when confronted with realities (Lia Thomas) it puts things in a different light.

[ThomasC]

Key word here being Gender reassignment Thomas not Gender Identity. You keep avoiding this part of the discussion

I'm not avoiding anything.

Sorry to make myself clear, I am on about those who have undergone gender reassignment.

Anyone can claim to be a different sex, but having gone through a long and hard procedure is completely different imo.

Although I like to take people on face value and think that if someone says they are in the process of transition, but haven't yet then they are being genuine. There will be those who have alteria motives unfortunately and then those who have gender disphoria

[Niamh.]

I'm not avoiding anything.

Sorry to make myself clear, I am on about those who have undergone gender reassignment.

Anyone can claim to be a different sex, but having gone through a long and hard procedure is completely different imo.

Although I like to take people on face value and think that if someone says they are in the process of transition, but haven't yet then they are being genuine.

Well OK, gender reassignment is a different thing altogether. I had absolutely no issue with this whole topic until the push for Self ID and this whole religion of Gender Identity took over the movement. I mean have you watched the video in the OP? You can't actually look at those men in Balaclavas threatening and attacking women and tell me you think they're genuine trans women? I mean come oooon

[Beso]

Nonsense. You're part of the problem with an attitude like that

Are you a trans woman?

Because if not, you should take your own advice you give out to others when they dare to talk about gay issues.

:shrug:

[Beso]

Sex and gender.

Sex is determined at birth with genitalia which can later be changed in life. Gender is how you identify yourself.

They are males with an inverted penis that looks like a vagina, and steroid fattened man boobs.

They are still male.

[ThomasC]

Well OK, gender reassignment is a different thing altogether. I had absolutely no issue with this whole topic until the push for Self ID and this whole religion of Gender Identity took over the movement. I mean have you watched the video in the OP? You can't actually look at those men in Balaclavas threatening and attacking women and tell me you think they're genuine trans women? I mean come oooon

Nah I don't think they are genuine. Yeah I watched it

[Niamh.]

Nah I don't think they are genuine. Yeah I watched it

I do feel bad for genuine transsexuals and I genuinely believe that the way this movement has been hijacked is going to end up effecting actual transsexuals in a negative way.

[ThomasC]

I do feel bad for genuine transsexuals and I genuinely believe that the way this movement has been hijacked is going to end up effecting actual transsexuals in a negative way.

I got the idea from the video that it was just people who wanted to feel a sense of purpose for the wrong reasons, but still to make themselves feel important about something and were just doing it for attention

[Niamh.]

I got the idea from the video that it was just people who wanted to feel a sense of purpose for the wrong reasons, but still to make themselves feel important about something and were just doing it for attention

There are a lot of people like that who have piggy backed the trans movement with their own misogynistic agenda, this is why women are worried about our spaces

[ThomasC]

There are a lot of people like that who have piggy backed the trans movement with their own misogynistic agenda, this is why women are worried about our spaces

Yeah I get that.

Like you say, it's a shame for those who genuinely are trans

[user104658]

I do feel bad for genuine transsexuals and I genuinely believe that the way this movement has been hijacked is going to end up effecting actual transsexuals in a negative way.

I'm actually starting to go down the Alf-esque conspiracy theory route with it and would go as far as saying I think it was sparked deliberately. Not that the people who are involved or identify a certain way are doing anything deliberate, but the Identity Zeitgeist in general... ... ... I'm starting to think seems designed to damage the rights of women, trans people and ultimately gay men as well which I said in another thread; when that allyship is no longer needed "for the numbers", gay men will be filed alongside lesbians as "genital fetishists" for being exclusively attracted to male bodies.

The only people who will get to plod on as normal with few personal concerns are straight natal males (and I say that AS one) and that should really say a lot. Who benefits from this battle? It's not women, and it's not the trans community or any other part of LGBT. But there certainly ARE people who benefit from pushing the edges of this bubble until it bursts. Hyperindividualist gender identity politics is the worst thing that's happened to actual LGBT rights since progress started being made at all.

[Niamh.]

Yeah I get that.

Like you say, it's a shame for those who genuinely are trans

Yes it is, absolutely

[Niamh.]

I'm actually starting to go down the Alf-esque conspiracy theory route with it and would go as far as saying I think it was sparked deliberately. Not that the people who are involved or identify a certain way are doing anything deliberate, but the Identity Zeitgeist in general... ... ... I'm starting to think seems designed to damage the rights of women, trans people and ultimately gay men as well which I said in another thread; when that allyship is no longer needed "for the numbers", gay men will be filed alongside lesbians as "genital fetishists" for being exclusively attracted to male bodies.

The only people who will get to plod on as normal with few personal concerns are straight natal males (and I say that AS one) and that should really say a lot. Who benefits from this battle? It's not women, and it's not the trans community or any other part of LGBT. But there certainly ARE people who benefit from pushing the edges of this bubble until it bursts. Hyperindividualist gender identity politics is the worst thing that's happened to actual LGBT rights since progress started being made at all.

Yep, yep and yep. I have to say if it wasn't so damaging I'd be impressed by how they've managed to do this as well. It's pretty genius

[user104658]

There are a lot of people like that who have piggy backed the trans movement with their own misogynistic agenda, this is why women are worried about our spaces

It's completely snowballed as well with fetishism being pushed HARD as a valid part of LGBT. I honestly thought it was a joke/just an internet niche thing that wouldn't happen but there are already people declaring themselves furries in my daughter's school. 13/14 year old kids! How can any gay or trans person not find this **** wildly offensive? It reduces all sexuality down to fetishism. It's the SAME thing puritans were saying back in the 50's, that gay rights activists fought so hard to change the perception of and really had only JUST started getting there in the last few decades... now pushed from the opposite angle and it's being welcomed with open arms. Madness.

[Alf]

I'm actually starting to go down the Alf-esque conspiracy theory route with it and would go as far as saying I think it was sparked deliberately. Not that the people who are involved or identify a certain way are doing anything deliberate, but the Identity Zeitgeist in general... ... ... I'm starting to think seems designed to damage the rights of women, trans people and ultimately gay men as well which I said in another thread; when that allyship is no longer needed "for the numbers", gay men will be filed alongside lesbians as "genital fetishists" for being exclusively attracted to male bodies.

The only people who will get to plod on as normal with few personal concerns are straight natal males (and I say that AS one) and that should really say a lot. Who benefits from this battle? It's not women, and it's not the trans community or any other part of LGBT. But there certainly ARE people who benefit from pushing the edges of this bubble until it bursts. Hyperindividualist gender identity politics is the worst thing that's happened to actual LGBT rights since progress started being made at all.Welcome to the club.

[Niamh.]

It's completely snowballed as well with fetishism being pushed HARD as a valid part of LGBT. I honestly thought it was a joke/just an internet niche thing that wouldn't happen but there are already people declaring themselves furries in my daughter's school. 13/14 year old kids! How can any gay or trans person not find this **** wildly offensive? It reduces all sexuality down to fetishism. It's the SAME thing puritans were saying back in the 50's, that gay rights activists fought so hard to change the perception of and really had only JUST started getting there in the last few decades... now pushed from the opposite angle and it's being welcomed with open arms. Madness.

I can't understand how they're not livid about what's happening either. And don't even get me started on "MAPs"

[Alf]

I can't understand how they're not livid about what's happening either. And don't even get me started on "MAPs"What's MAPs?

[Niamh.]

What's MAPs?

It stands for "Minor Attracted Person"

[user104658]

It stands for "Minor Attracted Person"

You'll be accused of "the age old trope of comparing gay people and trans people to paedophiles" for bringing it into the discussion of course, even though it has nothing to do with that. It's not saying that these are the same people; it's saying be very careful about what you allow to be set as legal precedent because people with a very different agenda can then use that precedent to argue their own case with similar arguments.

That's really a big part of it too. I'm all for the maximum rights for the maximum number of people; it's just that changes need to be properly considered before they're made and all angles examined for unintended consequences. One thing that often strikes me is that both women, gay and trans people pushed their rights forward in increments for DECADES and very successfully, making sometimes slow but clearly very real progress.

Then something "new" arrived and declared loudly "I want my rights NOW" and I think that people are inclined to think, well, "fair enough" but the rush is going to cause untold damage and when it all ends up being stripped back, it'll take those properly established rights along with it and set everything back by decades. It's already bloody happening stateside.

[Alf]

It stands for "Minor Attracted Person"I knew I'd heard of that term before somwhere. I heard it from this paedo defender. Disgusting!

There's a further story to this disturbing character too.



1459527369320980483

[Niamh.]

You'll be accused of "the age old trope of comparing gay people and trans people to paedophiles" for bringing it into the discussion of course, even though it has nothing to do with that. It's not saying that these are the same people; it's saying be very careful about what you allow to be set as legal precedent because people with a very different agenda can then use that precedent to argue their own case with similar arguments.

That's really a big part of it too. I'm all for the maximum rights for the maximum number of people; it's just that changes need to be properly considered before they're made and all angles examined for unintended consequences. One thing that often strikes me is that both women, gay and trans people pushed their rights forward in increments for DECADES and very successfully, making sometimes slow but clearly very real progress.

Then something "new" arrived and declared loudly "I want my rights NOW" and I think that people are inclined to think, well, "fair enough" but the rush is going to cause untold damage and when it all ends up being stripped back, it'll take those properly established rights along with it and set everything back by decades. It's already bloody happening stateside.

I mean these people are trying to hop on the LGBTQ+ train, I'm the one saying they're nothing alike so shouldn't be anywhere near it and they should be the ones getting mad that they're trying to associate themselves with that movement, same with furries.

The States are an absolute mess atm from all sides and all angles. Hopefully we''ll learn some lessons on what not to do over this side of the world by watching them

[Alf]

i knew i'd heard of that term before somwhere. I heard it from this paedo defender. Disgusting!

There's a further story to this disturbing character too.



14595273693209804831525152964695969792

[Oliver_W]

I mean these people are trying to hop on the LGBTQ+ train, I'm the one saying they're nothing alike so shouldn't be anywhere near it and they should be the ones getting mad that they're trying to associate themselves with that movement, same with furries.

The States are an absolute mess atm from all sides and all angles. Hopefully we''ll learn some lessons on what not to do over this side of the world by watching them

You'll be accused of "the age old trope of comparing gay people and trans people to paedophiles" for bringing it into the discussion of course, even though it has nothing to do with that. It's not saying that these are the same people; it's saying be very careful about what you allow to be set as legal precedent because people with a very different agenda can then use that precedent to argue their own case with similar arguments.

That's really a big part of it too. I'm all for the maximum rights for the maximum number of people; it's just that changes need to be properly considered before they're made and all angles examined for unintended consequences. One thing that often strikes me is that both women, gay and trans people pushed their rights forward in increments for DECADES and very successfully, making sometimes slow but clearly very real progress.

Then something "new" arrived and declared loudly "I want my rights NOW" and I think that people are inclined to think, well, "fair enough" but the rush is going to cause untold damage and when it all ends up being stripped back, it'll take those properly established rights along with it and set everything back by decades. It's already bloody happening stateside.

1525152964695969792

Urgh, I hate it. It's mostly "Queer"' types who support the inclusion of "MAPs", not the standard LGBT.

I think I'm also joining Alf in the conspiracy nut farm, but when "LGBTQWERTY Educators" want to teach children about consent, it feels like they're building up to teaching children that they can consent, if that makes sense.

[Cherie]

I'm not sure as they haven't gone through the full transition. They need support regardless. My view is that if that was how they identified them would it be fair for me to judge?

I am not judging, they can do as they please, but when it affects my rights I will speak up just the same as you would if you were asked to give up any of your rights...I would like for there to be somewhere for abused pre op trans women to get help but not at the expense of abused traumatised women

[arista]

Piers gets called the C word on live TV by the trans activist and the womans activist proudly admits that she's transphobic.

The lengths Piers goes to to get viewers.


3CZPRhFe9pE



Yes that Punk was Rude.

Piers gave the Fool time to speak, as well


That Great Lady
is the next guest

[Alf]

They're at it again. This time in Bristol.



1538638226998575104

[Alf]

1538534284272750593

[Niamh.]

"Right side of History"

[Alf]

Colston was the statue that was pulled down and rolled into the river for those that arne't aware.

I think that is the women who Piers Morgan is interviewing in the OP whom they are saying this to.


1538578230839595008

[Alf]

1538517842953441281

[Cherie]

what brave misogynists they are with their covered faces ...remove your masks why don't you

[Niamh.]

what brave misogynists they are with their covered faces ...remove your masks why don't youI know, don't know why they're hiding their identities considering how they're on the "right side of history" and all

[Cherie]

I know, don't know why they're hiding their identities considering how they're on the "right side of history" and all

quite bizarre, in any any other context they would be deemed terrorists

[Cherie]

1538534284272750593

so this is what a woman is, is it?