Male rapist pretends to be Trans to get to woman's jail. Now told do one, by Nicola

[Crimson Dynamo]

Rapist who first appeared in court as a man named Adam with a
face tattoo before"changing gender" |(putting on a wig and a pink coat) ahead of trial for attacking two women - as
she is sent to a women's prison



Isla Bryson was known as Adam Graham when she carried out the sex attacks
The first victim was raped in 2016 - a second woman was raped in 2019
Bryson made the decision about 'transitioning' from a man to a woman in 2020
First appeared in court as Adam Graham but stood trial as woman Isla Bryson


https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/01/24/14/66912823-11670803-image-m-26_1674570472732.jpghttps://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/01/24/14/66879673-11670803-Isla_Bryson_31_pictured_preyed_on_vulnerable_women _and_was_convi-a-30_1674570636605.jpg

A transgender woman has today been convicted of raping two vulnerable
mothers while living as a man and has been remanded in an all-female jail for up to a month before being sentenced.

Isla Bryson was a shaven-headed Adam Graham who had a Mike Tyson-style
face tattoo when "she" carried out the violent sex attacks in 2016 and 2019
after abusing the victims she originally met online.

The 31 year-old - who claimed to have had gender issues since the age of
four but began transitioning from a man to a woman in 2020 - had denied
the accusations. "She" told jurors any sex was consensual although insisted
she did not like sleeping with women and they made the 'first move'.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11670803/Transgender-woman-guilty-raping-two-women-man.html

[UserSince2005]

His VPL is so fem.

[Niamh.]

He*

[Swan]

So a person born, and who lived as a man for most of their life, raped women, and is now a "women" themselves, has been sent to a female prison, where it will make it pathetically easy for them to rape women again?

Ok then..

[Oliver_W]

So a person born, and who lived as a man for most of their life, raped women, and is now a "women" themselves, has been sent to a female prison, where it will make it pathetically easy for them to rape women again?

Ok then..

Welcome to 2023.

[Niamh.]

So a person born, and who lived as a man for most of their life, raped women, and is now a "women" themselves, has been sent to a female prison, where it will make it pathetically easy for them to rape women again?

Ok then..

Oh but it's never going to happen!! Predatory men would never take advantage of big gaping loopholes like that!!

[GoldHeart]

How convenient that HE'S a woman now . I see a MALE predator,I will not be calling this person female.

I remember when another one of these stories hit the headlines, and Dr Shola insisted on still calling the predator "she" . Yeah screw that , if you've committed a crime that serious ...why should anyone respect your pronouns. Typical woke far leftie ideology !.

[bots]

that's Scotland for you

[Cherie]

But but this would never happen, we were imagining that this scenario could play out due to our bigoted natures

[Crimson Dynamo]

This adult human female is worried


https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/01/23/13/66870389-0-image-a-47_1674481605722.jpg

[Beso]

Build new jails and send them all there where they can all stick each others vaginas up each others bums till their hearts are content.

[Swan]

I mean look at his small bulge in the second picture

[GoldHeart]

I mean look at his small bulge in the second picture

Gross
Isn't even bothering to hide it , reminds me of when Dylan Mulvany use to say "normalise the bulge" :crazy::umm2: .

[Cherie]

I mean look at his small bulge in the second picture

absolutely despicable to put a rapist in with vulnerable women but here we are, and no amount of intervention from women will change their stance, Nicola Sturgeon should be rightly ashamed

[Crimson Dynamo]

It just keeps reminding me of The Emperor's New Clothes fable

Its like this whole debacle is what you get when too many people collectively virtue signal

thinking they are all progressive and "inclusive"

crims always find weaknesses, loopholes and vulnerabilities

[The Slim Reaper]

This is a tragic case for the victims of his attacks. I thought I'd better mention the victims as this thread is only to air out agendas against the trans community (which I know will come as a shock on here) trying to live their lives,

The attacks happened when he was living as a man, so he's not even a transgender rapist, he was yet another male rapist, but I guess that's not important.

I don't think he's genuinely trans; he's opportunistic like most predators. I'd put him into a male prison, where genuine trans people have been housed and violently abused forever, another fact which I guess is unimportant.

The only promising thing to come out of this is the acknowledgment that people in prison can still be vulnerable, so maybe we need to look at rehabilitation programmes rather than an outdated prison system,

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnOet33WIAAZqRj?format=jpg&name=small

[Crimson Dynamo]

This is a tragic case for the victims of his attacks. I thought I'd better mention the victims as this thread is only to air out agendas against the trans community (which I know will come as a shock on here) trying to live their lives,

The attacks happened when he was living as a man, so he's not even a transgender rapist, he was yet another male rapist, but I guess that's not important.

I don't think he's genuinely trans; he's opportunistic like most predators. I'd put him into a male prison, where genuine trans people have been housed and violently abused forever, another fact which I guess is unimportant.

The only promising thing to come out of this is the acknowledgment that people in prison can still be vulnerable, so maybe we need to look at rehabilitation programmes rather than an outdated prison system,

so now he is transgender he isnt a now a transgender rapist? If he was a train driver when he was raped 2 women but is now a Policeman you would be admonishing the newspaper that printed Cop rapist arrested?

you want him to arrive in the womans prison as just a transgender lady who has never raped anyone coz that was the other bloke who we dont talk about? Thats nice and safe for the inmates

:crazy:

[Mystic Mock]

It's clear as day that this person isn't really Transgender, and has used a loophole in the system to go to a women's Prison.

However I hope that this person goes to Prison for a very long time, regardless of whatever they identify as.

[The Slim Reaper]

so now he is transgender he isnt a now a transgender rapist? If he was a train driver when he was raped 2 women but is now a Policeman you would be admonishing the newspaper that printed Cop rapist arrested?

you want him to arrive in the womans prison as just a transgender lady who has never raped anyone coz that was the other bloke who we dont talk about? Thats nice and safe for the inmates

:crazy:

Transgender rapist has a completely different connotation to the truth. Identity of a person is a little different to their profession. I already said he should be sent to a male prison, so the bit in bold doesn't make any sense whatsoever as a reply to anything I wrote.

[Cherie]

It is in law that transgender woman have to be housed in female prisons since this lady lost her case

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57692993

It is lawful for transgender women to be housed in female jails in England and Wales, the High Court has ruled.

A female prisoner, known as FDJ, had challenged the Ministry of Justice over aspects of the policy.

She claimed she had been sexually assaulted by a trans prisoner but the MoJ did not say whether it accepted this alleged incident had taken place.

The judge ruled barring all trans women from female prisons would ignore their right to live as their chosen gender.

Women's prisons can house inmates who were born male but identify as female, regardless of whether they have gone through any physical transformation or have obtained a gender recognition certificate.

The MoJ argued the policy pursued a legitimate aim, including "facilitating the rights of transgender people to live in and as their acquired gender (and) protecting transgender people's mental and physical health".

The claimant in the case, FDJ, had said she was sexually assaulted in prison in 2017 by a trans woman with a gender recognition certificate (GRC), who had convictions for serious sexual offences.

The claimant's lawyers argued that placing transgender women in the female prisons exposed others to higher risk, citing a claim that transgender inmates were five times more likely than non-transgender prisoners to commit a sexual assault on a non-transgender prisoner.

In a judgement handed down via email, Lord Justice Holroyde accepted the statistical evidence showed the proportion of trans prisoners convicted of sexual offences was "substantially higher" than for non-transgender men and women prisoners

But he said the lawyers' claims about the risk of sexual assault were a "misuse of the statistics, which... are so low in number, and so lacking in detail, that they are an unsafe basis for general conclusions".

Between 2016 and 2019, 97 sexual assaults were recorded in women's prisons, the judgement said. Of these, it appears that seven were committed by transgender prisoners without a GRC. It is not known whether any were committed by transgender women with a GRC.

As of March 2019, there were 34 transgender women without GRCs allocated to a woman's prison. The number of transgender prisoners with a certificate is thought to be in single-figures across the prison population as a whole.

The judge said he "fully understood" the concerns of FDJ, and that women prisoners "may suffer fear and acute anxiety" if housed with a transgender woman who has male genitalia.

But he added that the rights of transgender women prisoners must also be considered.

"The unconditional introduction of a transgender woman into the general population of a women's prison carries a statistically greater risk of sexual assault upon non-transgender prisoners than would be the case if a non-transgender woman were introduced.

"However, the policies require a careful, case by case assessment of the risks and of the ways in which the risks should be managed," he said.

"Properly applied, that assessment has the result that non-transgender prisoners only have contact with transgender prisoners when it is safe for them to do so."

The claimant, FDJ, said she was "disappointed" with the judgement.

"By bringing this challenge, I did not seek to prevent trans women in prison from living in dignity, or to exclude all trans women from women's prisons. However, I feel that trans women who have a history of violence and sexual offending against women should not be in a situation where they can put our safety at risk."

A Ministry of Justice spokesperson said: "We are pleased the court agrees that the way we manage transgender offenders strikes the right balance between protecting their legal rights and ensuring the safety of all prisoners."

line
Analysis box by Mark Easton, home editor
This is one of the first cases to enter the disputed terrain where, in the terms used by the court, the rights of women and the rights of transgender women compete.

The judge recognised that many women prisoners may suffer fear and acute anxiety if sharing prison accommodation with a transgender inmate.

But transgender women in male prisons may also suffer fear and acute anxiety. Prisons will, by their nature, include violent and dangerous individuals who present a risk to other inmates.

The question was whether the Ministry of Justice policy of placing transgender women among the general female prison population could be applied in a way that was not unlawfully discriminatory.

In the end, the judge accepted there was "a margin of discretion" in balancing the competing rights and managing the risks.

However, while the policy itself is ruled to be lawful, the judgement does make it clear that individual decisions are still open to challenge.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Its obvious he was terrified of going to a male jail where he would have been battered for being a rapist so took this stunt to get an easy ride at a woman's prison

and bonus is he can prey on the women there

:skull:

[bots]

it would be like sending Gary Glitter to a juvenile prison

[Crimson Dynamo]

it would be like sending Gary Glitter to a juvenile prison

who can forget when the SNP did this...

SRRw1ERj2Gc

[The Slim Reaper]

Morris is a genius. That is the one thing they didn't want to happen :laugh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Morris is a genius. That is the one thing they didn't want to happen :laugh:

if you think how far ahead of its time that sketch was/is

[Niamh.]

This is a tragic case for the victims of his attacks. I thought I'd better mention the victims as this thread is only to air out agendas against the trans community (which I know will come as a shock on here) trying to live their lives,

The attacks happened when he was living as a man, so he's not even a transgender rapist, he was yet another male rapist, but I guess that's not important.

I don't think he's genuinely trans; he's opportunistic like most predators. I'd put him into a male prison, where genuine trans people have been housed and violently abused forever, another fact which I guess is unimportant.

The only promising thing to come out of this is the acknowledgment that people in prison can still be vulnerable, so maybe we need to look at rehabilitation programmes rather than an outdated prison system,That's exactly what I'm saying though, these rules have made it too easy for predatory men to exploit, of course I don't believe this guy is genuine when he says he's trans, women now are collateral damage to shield the very small number of genuinely dysphoric men. Our same sex safe guards are gone.

[UserSince2005]

it would be like sending Gary Glitter to a juvenile prison

Gary doesnt like teens he likes them under 10.

A kid in a candy store would have been a better analogy

[The Slim Reaper]

That's exactly what I'm saying though, these rules have made it too easy for predatory men to exploit, of course I don't believe this guy is genuine when he says he's trans, women now are collateral damage to shield the very small number of genuinely dysphoric men. Our same sex safe guards are gone.

Criminals exploit loopholes in all areas, it's what makes them criminals. Claiming it was consent when there are voice notes saying differently (andrew tate) is a loophole that's way more dangerous to women than any trans person. I don't agree with immigrants committing murder being used to attack all immigrants, and I don't accept a man sexually attacking women being used for another thread on the same old BS about wokey far left, penises etc. That discussion is a bigoted mess imo

There are issues that definitely need to be worked out (sports) as this is completely new, and this prison situation is another one, but I don't believe trans people are in anyway a threat to women because I don't believe you protect the rights of one group by attacking a different group. I also understand why women might feel threatened about the changing times

Women should have more rights, but it's not trans people that are preventing that, The ideology that wants to treat women as 2nd class chattel, is the same one pretending they care about women's rights when it comes to trans people. No one wants to even acknowledge that and at least give some thought to why that might be.

There is no way to sort this out, because both sides end up shouting at each other, and that impasse is being heavily monetised, mainly by folks pretending to protect women.

[GoldHeart]

I'll say wokey far left all I want, if someone commits a serious crime !! the last thing on my mind is "oh I better get their pronouns correct" . Which is exactly what the far left seems to put first ,rather than the fact the person is a dangerous predator.

Like shouldn't that be the focus ...you know = keep this person LOCKED up and AWAY from women , DON'T put them in a women's prison ...so they have easy access to more victims.

We know loopholes are being exploited ,this is the very point we're making.

[Niamh.]

I know the right aren't on women's side either believe me, just look at the abortion mess in the states. I'm not left or right on this, just on the side of women and girls

[The Slim Reaper]

I'll say wokey far left all I want, if someone commits a serious crime !! the last thing on my mind is "oh I better get their pronouns correct" . Which is exactly what the far left seems to put first ,rather than the fact the person is a dangerous predator.

Like shouldn't that be the focus ...you know = keep this person LOCKED up and AWAY from women , DON'T put them in a women's prison ...so they have easy access to more victims.

We know loopholes are being exploited ,this is the very point we're making.

Knock yourself out with wokey far left chat all you like, it amuses me that you link communism (the real far left), with trans people, As I said - it's a bigoted mess. I think my post is fairly reasonable, but you go girl. From Corbyn to John Major because you hate trans people :laugh:

[Swan]

Knock yourself out with wokey far left chat all you like, it amuses me that you link communism (the real far left), with trans people, As I said - it's a bigoted mess. I think my post is fairly reasonable, but you go girl. From Corbyn to John Major because you hate trans people :laugh:

But at the end of the day Slim, where is the common sense in putting a man, or previously a man, in a prison with women? Considering his crimes, putting him in a cell with a women is ridiculous.

Actually, it will HURT Trans people, if, he were to commit more of the same crimes in prison, where raping women would actually be a lot easier for him. It will give them a bad name.

It's all about common sense, and is this case, that's out the window!

[UserSince2005]

No man is an Isla

[GoldHeart]

Knock yourself out with wokey far left chat all you like, it amuses me that you link communism (the real far left), with trans people, As I said - it's a bigoted mess. I think my post is fairly reasonable, but you go girl. From Corbyn to John Major because you hate trans people :laugh:

When the hell did I ever say I supported John Major??? :joker: :conf: ,you already know where I stand politically. I will NEVER support the conservatives. But overall my views are more moderate liberal centre.

You can assume I hate trans people all you want, you're just proving my point ...when someone has a different opinion to you ,then you accuse them of hating an entire community, abuse gets thrown at women .....words like "terf" just for acknowledging biology and wanting to protect other women . This is why we're just going backwards ...and will continue to go backwards. This is NOT progressive AT ALL .

[Niamh.]

No man is an Isla[emoji23]

[Crimson Dynamo]

No man is an Isla

Isla Man?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Knock yourself out with wokey far left chat all you like, it amuses me that you link communism (the real far left), with trans people, As I said - it's a bigoted mess. I think my post is fairly reasonable, but you go girl. From Corbyn to John Major because you hate trans people :laugh:

"because you hate trans people"

what a vile post

:umm2:

[The Slim Reaper]

But at the end of the day Slim, where is the common sense in putting a man, or previously a man, in a prison with women? Considering his crimes, putting him in a cell with a women is ridiculous.

Actually, it will HURT Trans people, if, he were to commit more of the same crimes in prison, where raping women would actually be a lot easier for him. It will give them a bad name.

It's all about common sense, and is this case, that's out the window!

I said in my first post in this thread, that he absolutely should be sent to a male prison, and I also agree that it will hurt trans people, not because they are in any way to blame, but because as this thread shows, it's any excuse to attack them.

I just believe in and support the rights of everyone (apart from those that commit serious crimes). just in the last few years our rights have been massively taken away by this government (with brexit included), but instead of all fighting to lift every single one of us, up, it's the age old issue of having one group being held up as the problem, and if we can just step on this group, things will be better. It's nothing more than a distraction whilst our living conditions are being hammered by the truly powerful, who are all against trans rights, by the way. .

[Beso]

Knock yourself out with wokey far left chat all you like, it amuses me that you link communism (the real far left), with trans people, As I said - it's a bigoted mess. I think my post is fairly reasonable, but you go girl. From Corbyn to John Major because you hate trans people :laugh:



Who do you think your bloody talking to slim:shrug:

Thats so patronising and unnecessary.

[The Slim Reaper]

When the hell did I ever say I supported John Major??? :joker: :conf: ,you already know where I stand politically. I will NEVER support the conservatives. But overall my views are more moderate liberal centre.

You can assume I hate trans people all you want, you're just proving my point ...when someone has a different opinion to you ,then you accuse them of hating an entire community, abuse gets thrown at women .....words like "terf" just for acknowledging biology and wanting to protect other women . This is why we're just going backwards ...and will continue to go backwards. This is NOT progressive AT ALL .

You said in the other thread that you liked the moderate right (aka John Major). Everything you don't like is far left from the little I read your posts, but far left is communism. Trans people weren't a consideration during the Bolshevik revolution. Corbyn is a democratic socialist who supports trans rights, so no, neither of us have any idea where you stand politically. You use woke far left as a pejorative, and then you link trans rights to the far left, which sort of puts yourself in the space of using slurs to describe anyone who supports trans people. It shows that you're regurgitating, not actually understanding what you're saying.

Every attempt to step on a minority group always starts and ends with the pretense of protecting the larger group, when both groups can be lifted up and protected at the same time if we work together.

[Beso]

Oh well we better lift up and protect the rapist being sent to a womens prison then..oh I hope hes ok in there.

[The Slim Reaper]

Who do you think your bloody talking to slim:shrug:

Thats so patronising and unnecessary.


Is this your contribution to the thread, thus far?


Build new jails and send them all there where they can all stick each others vaginas up each others bums till their hearts are content.

Yeah, might need to keep this one moving.

I see having a different opinion to the hivemind on here has brought out expected results. :laugh:

I've been more than reasonable in my posts, but report anything you don't like, I posted it, so you don't need to tell me about it. :laugh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

not slim bemoaning the fact not one single person ever agrees with his 19th century marxist views

f me

again?

[Beso]

Is this your contribution to the thread, thus far?




Yeah, might need to keep this one moving.

I see having a different opinion to the hivemind on here has brought out expected results. :laugh:

I've been more than reasonable in my posts, but report anything you don't like, I posted it, so you don't need to tell me about it. :laugh:



You've been a tad condescending saying to a lady "but you go girl" Thats a saying girls, especially young girls.Keep for talking to each other.You used it whilst attempting to out down goldhearts opinion, which can only mean you were being condescending or patronising towards a woman whilst attempting to stick up for the rights of others.

Its disgusting.

[hijaxers]

You've been a tad condescending saying to a lady "but you go girl" Thats a saying girls, especially young girls.Keep for talking to each other.You used it whilst attempting to out down goldhearts opinion, which can only mean you were being condescending or patronising towards a woman whilst attempting to stick up for the rights of others.

Its disgusting.

Agreed there was no need for those nasty comments.

[The Slim Reaper]

You've been a tad condescending saying to a lady "but you go girl" Thats a saying girls, especially young girls.Keep for talking to each other.You used it whilst attempting to out down goldhearts opinion, which can only mean you were being condescending or patronising towards a woman whilst attempting to stick up for the rights of others.

Its disgusting.

I see we've arrived at "you told a joke about a woman dying of cancer" part 2 :laugh2:

report me for cultural or sexual appropriation if you find it so disgusting, but tell someone else about it, rather than joining the southern belles who fan themselves down every time I post.

Now that could be seen as misogynistic, so be sure to add that into the report.

[Beso]

I see we've arrived at "you told a joke about a woman dying of cancer" part 2 :laugh2:

report me for cultural or sexual appropriation if you find it so disgusting, but tell someone else about it, rather than joining the southern belles who fan themselves down every time I post.

Now that could be seen as misogynistic, so be sure to add that into the report.

2 many buttons to press to report people for me. :shrug:

[The Slim Reaper]

Agreed there was no need for those nasty comments.

Which comment do you think was nasty?

[The Slim Reaper]

2 many buttons to press to report people for me. :shrug:

No probs, ask someone else to do it for you. Maybe jaxers or LT will?

[Beso]

I see we've arrived at "you told a joke about a woman dying of cancer" part 2 :laugh2:

report me for cultural or sexual appropriation if you find it so disgusting, but tell someone else about it, rather than joining the southern belles who fan themselves down every time I post.

Now that could be seen as misogynistic, so be sure to add that into the report.



It was condescending slim.

Unintentionally I know. But still condescending. That's all I have to say. Enjoy the rest of your board meeting chairman.

[GoldHeart]

You said in the other thread that you liked the moderate right (aka John Major). Everything you don't like is far left from the little I read your posts, but far left is communism. Trans people weren't a consideration during the Bolshevik revolution. Corbyn is a democratic socialist who supports trans rights, so no, neither of us have any idea where you stand politically. You use woke far left as a pejorative, and then you link trans rights to the far left, which sort of puts yourself in the space of using slurs to describe anyone who supports trans people. It shows that you're regurgitating, not actually understanding what you're saying.

Every attempt to step on a minority group always starts and ends with the pretense of protecting the larger group, when both groups can be lifted up and protected at the same time if we work together.

Wow help us all !!! :facepalm: no what I said was I found myself agreeing more with the moderate right wing , but I do NOT agree with everything the right wing says. You know I DON'T support this government NEVER have & NEVER will.


I was a Corbyn supporter at the time,and I wanted him to be the PM of this country,we will never know now ...how he would have coped with all the challenges & issues out there. But I think he would have tried his best ,and maybe made some mistakes as he's human.

You basically twist everything for your own agenda, what slurs was used? ....if you're offended by 'woke' & 'far left' ...then that's amusing when you've been more condescending and rude towards me anyway . And when did I condone 'stepping on minority communities ' ?? :crazy: .

It's not difficult to understand, I use to be very left wing , and I've never and will never be right wing . I'm in the centre .

[Beso]

No probs, ask someone else to do it for you. Maybe jaxers or LT will?

2 many buttons to press to post pms for me slim.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Agreed there was no need for those nasty comments.

yep

[The Slim Reaper]

Wow help us all !!! :facepalm: no what I said was I found myself agreeing more with the moderate right wing , but I do NOT agree with everything the right wing says. You know I DON'T support this government NEVER have & NEVER will.


I was a Corbyn supporter at the time,and I wanted him to be the PM of this country,we will never know now ...how he would have coped with all the challenges & issues out there. But I think he would have tried his best ,and maybe made some mistakes as he's human.

You basically twist everything for your own agenda, what slurs was used? ....if you're offended by 'woke' & 'far left' ...then that's amusing when you've been more condescending and rude towards me anyway . And when did I condone 'stepping on minority communities ' ?? :crazy: .

It's not difficult to understand, I use to be very left wing , and I've never and will never be right wing . I'm in the centre .

I guess saying "you go girl with the wokey far left chat" has somehow been twisted into I'm offended. As I pointed out, it just reveals you're regurgitating, not understanding the terms you're using. It's no more than a meme at this point.

Where did I say you condone stepping on minority communities?

Everything I've said in this thread has been explained.

[Cherie]

The title should read rapist male posing as transgender woman gets put in women’s prison due to gaping loophole in self ID that affects women’s only places which woman have being pointing out for years but whose concerns have been ignored by everyone including by the judge in the case because of worriy about how it might look and how it might impact career progression ..woman are just collateral damage these days and that is from both sides left and right

[Crimson Dynamo]

well said Cherie

[GoldHeart]

I guess saying "you go girl with the wokey far left chat" has somehow been twisted into I'm offended. As I pointed out, it just reveals you're regurgitating, not understanding the terms you're using. It's no more than a meme at this point.

Where did I say you condone stepping on minority communities?

Everything I've said in this thread has been explained.

Oh and just so you know I never voted for BREXIT either ....I voted to REMAIN :hee: .

[user104658]

The title should read rapist male posing as transgender woman gets put in women’s prison due to gaping loophole in self ID that affects women’s only places which woman having being pointing out for years but whose concerns have been ignored by everyone including by the judge in the case because of worriy about how it might look and how it might impact career progression ..woman are just collateral damage these days and that is from both sides left and right

Not often that I don't have anything much to add Cherie but this is pretty comprehensive.

What I find staggering is that people who are generally reasonable and rational will still;

- refuse to acknowledge that too much has been done too quickly, overlooking any safeguarding concerns.

- refuse to acknowledge that the tonne of bricks that's been brought down on women for pointing out concerns is absolutely DRENCHED in misogyny

- refuse to tap the brakes no matter how many indications there are that the ideology needs to slow down

... And it's all for fear of seeming like a "bad ally" or out of worry that budging an inch risks "aligning with bigots".

[Beso]

Just imagine all those rapists thinking about topping themselves. Suddenly having a loophole that makes the punishment for their urges not seem so bad.

Very very dangerous times for women with this, from the actual crime itself, all the way up to the punishment...its like women are being punished twice.

Firstly for the crime, and secondly for having to put up with the rapists punishments.






Saying that though..

Rapists and paedos will be seen as the same in any jail, and one could only imagine how a female paedos life, or a child killers, would be in a female prison.

I doubt a male rapists will be much different.

Unless of course he is sharing a cell with one person.

[GoldHeart]

Just imagine all those rapists thinking about topping themselves. Suddenly having a loophole that makes the punishment for their urges not seem so bad.

Very very dangerous times for women with this, from the actual crime itself, all the way up to the punishment...its like women are being punished twice.

Firstly for the crime, and secondly for having to put up with the rapists punishments.

The justice system has always had a soft side for predators it seems, venebles is their glowing poster boy. The amount of chance that sicko got ...was mind boggling.

[Zizu]

The justice system has always had a soft side for predators it seems, venebles is their glowing poster boy. The amount of chance that sicko got ...was mind boggling.


I just hope they don’t let him out … last I heard … he’s held far too close for comfort


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Beso]

The justice system has always had a soft side for predators it seems, venebles is their glowing poster boy. The amount of chance that sicko got ...was mind boggling.

Makes you wonder about the people making the decisions. You could be forgiven for thinking it was the 70s and 80s again.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Makes you wonder about the people making the decisions. You could be forgiven for thinking it was the 70s and 80s again.

we have already had moves in thread to excuse the guy..

[Beso]

we have already had moves in thread to excuse the guy..

Do you mean the forcefully entering a woman attracted person.

[Mystic Mock]

Criminals exploit loopholes in all areas, it's what makes them criminals. Claiming it was consent when there are voice notes saying differently (andrew tate) is a loophole that's way more dangerous to women than any trans person. I don't agree with immigrants committing murder being used to attack all immigrants, and I don't accept a man sexually attacking women being used for another thread on the same old BS about wokey far left, penises etc. That discussion is a bigoted mess imo

There are issues that definitely need to be worked out (sports) as this is completely new, and this prison situation is another one, but I don't believe trans people are in anyway a threat to women because I don't believe you protect the rights of one group by attacking a different group. I also understand why women might feel threatened about the changing times

Women should have more rights, but it's not trans people that are preventing that, The ideology that wants to treat women as 2nd class chattel, is the same one pretending they care about women's rights when it comes to trans people. No one wants to even acknowledge that and at least give some thought to why that might be.

There is no way to sort this out, because both sides end up shouting at each other, and that impasse is being heavily monetised, mainly by folks pretending to protect women.

I agree with you that certain types of people love the fighting going on between women and the Trans communities, it deflects from what these higher ups are doing wrong.

[Mystic Mock]

I'll say wokey far left all I want, if someone commits a serious crime !! the last thing on my mind is "oh I better get their pronouns correct" . Which is exactly what the far left seems to put first ,rather than the fact the person is a dangerous predator.

Like shouldn't that be the focus ...you know = keep this person LOCKED up and AWAY from women , DON'T put them in a women's prison ...so they have easy access to more victims.

We know loopholes are being exploited ,this is the very point we're making.

Definitely a fair point about the far left.

They on certain serious issues are more concerned with terminology about someone's identity more than the actual offence.

However I still like to think that there are a sizable portion of the left that aren't like that. Just like I also like to think that most of the right aren't far right.

[Oliver_W]

Why should gender identity affect which prison someone goes to? It's imaginary, why should woman prisoners have a delusional male in their midst?

[arista]

1618159939603828738

[user104658]

To be fair one thing that I would add to this thread is that NO ONE should (ideally) be at ANY physical risk whilst incarcerated - in a civilised society, when we lock people up they should be locked up without risk of being assaulted, which (for me) means there simply shouldn't be opportunity at all. Prisoners should either be safely in a cell, or in a communal area that's fully staffed and supervised.

I realise that's an unrealistic pipe dream but worth adding I guess - it's an absolute mess of a system.

[bots]

i also think we are not taking into account the collective of women who will be protecting each other in that circumstance too. The issue comes if for example its a one on one scenario like 2 prisoners sharing a cell. I still think it's obviously someone trying to play the system and that should be viewed and dealt with accordingly

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://twitter.com/PixelatedBoot/status/1618169304368967682?s=20

[Cherie]

Half of the transgender inmates in Scottish prisons only began transitioning after they were convicted, it can be revealed. The Scottish Prison Service (SPS) confirmed there were 16 trans inmates in Scots prisons, of whom eight began their transition while "being cared for in custody following their remand or conviction for their current offencehttps://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/half-of-scottish-trans-prisoners-changed-gender-after-convictions-pftqbbhg6


Why are the trans community not talking about this? seems like an I'm alright Jack attitude to me

[Cherie]

oh snap LT

[Oliver_W]

Half of the transgender inmates in Scottish prisons only began transitioning after they were convicted, it can be revealed. The Scottish Prison Service (SPS) confirmed there were 16 trans inmates in Scots prisons, of whom eight began their transition while "being cared for in custody following their remand or conviction for their current offencehttps://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/half-of-scottish-trans-prisoners-changed-gender-after-convictions-pftqbbhg6


Why are the trans community not talking about this? seems like an I'm alright Jack attitude to me

No True Scotsman.

They're not real tranners, so they're not part of the problem.

[Niamh.]

The title should read rapist male posing as transgender woman gets put in women’s prison due to gaping loophole in self ID that affects women’s only places which woman have being pointing out for years but whose concerns have been ignored by everyone including by the judge in the case because of worriy about how it might look and how it might impact career progression ..woman are just collateral damage these days and that is from both sides left and right

Exactly.

And I don't like the "but criminals will find away to attack women anyway" attitude. Why should it be made easier for them? Why do women have to give up our safe guards? There needs to be another way to protect vulnerable transwomen without using women as a human shield.

[Cherie]

Exactly.

And I don't like the "but criminals will find away to attack women anyway" attitude. Why should it be made easier for them? Why do women have to give up our safe guards? There needs to be another way to protect vulnerable transwomen without using women as a human shield.

Thats like saying don’t bother locking your door at night because criminals will come in the window, most are opportunists and will take the easy option of walking through the open door

[The Slim Reaper]

Who are generally considered the criminals in this situation?

[Niamh.]

Who are generally considered the criminals in this situation?

Men are

[Niamh.]

https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1618212057496817670?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 25, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[GoldHeart]

Men are

Exactly

[GoldHeart]

https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1618212057496817670?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 25, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

:clap1:

[Cherie]

Who are generally considered the criminals in this situation?

Think its quite clear the criminals are men posing as women to get (a) an easier time in prison and/ or (b) to gain easy access to vulnerable women


How many women do you see changing gender after being charged with a crime?

[The Slim Reaper]

Think its quite clear the criminals are men posing as women to get (a) an easier time in prison and/ or (b) to gain easy access to vulnerable women


How many women do you see changing gender after being charged with a crime?

I've been pretty clear about how I believe this guy should be treated, and it's no different to you.

[bots]

cut their cocks off if they want to transition during a trial. Then we will see how committed they are to the process

[Cherie]

I've been pretty clear about how I believe this guy should be treated, and it's no different to you.

why did you query who the criminals were then :shrug: I was just answering your question

[Cherie]

cut their cocks off if they want to transition during a trial. Then we will see how committed they are to the process



I have just read a tweet where transmen can access some gay saunas ONLY if they have top surgery, but men with penises can go where they like?

[The Slim Reaper]

https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1618212057496817670?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 25, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I have a couple of questions about this. They are good faith questions not meant as gotchas, but as an attempt to try and understand more about how you think.

Who are these men with all this power to tell women what and what not to think and fear? If you take the lawmakers in this country, for example, all of the men with the power to protect women's spaces, mostly appear on the face of it to be anti-trans. If we're talking about the Scottish bill, then it was the equality act in 2010 that opened up womens spaces, and why wasn't there all this outrage back then rather than being used in a modern day culture war? Was there outrage that I just missed?

Do you think it's men telling women to shut up, or do you think that both men and women can be either pro, or anti-trans and both can express their opinions equally vocally? Do you think that trans rights is a civil rights issue?

A really weird issue I have with all of this, is that the anti-trans community seem perfectly fine with sending a person they consider a woman, into a male bathroom, so don't you think they would be more vulnerable, and yet they seem completely excluded in any discussion?

[The Slim Reaper]

why did you query who the criminals were then :shrug: I was just answering your question

Because I wanted to clarify something, and you responded with another question :shrug:

[Oliver_W]

I have just read a tweet were transmen can access some gay saunas ONLY if they have top surgery, but men with penises can go where they like?

I hate to sound all Tumblr and say Male Privilege, but ... :joker:

Or at least it's the result of male socialisation, where they insist and guilt-trip their way into whatever spaces they want, but give entry requirements to their own.

[Swan]

Think its quite clear the criminals are men posing as women to get (a) an easier time in prison and/ or (b) to gain easy access to vulnerable women


How many women do you see changing gender after being charged with a crime?

Get over it Cherie, men can now become women when it suits them ok. It doesn't matter what you actual women think!! Next you'll be wanting the right to vote, Christ!

[Cherie]

I hate to sound all Tumblr and say Male Privilege, but ... :joker:

Or at least it's the result of male socialisation, where they insist and guilt-trip their way into whatever spaces they want, but give entry requirements to their own.

so its not transphobic to insist on surgery in men only spaces but it is transphobic to insist on surgery in female only space, I am learning every day what a **** show this is


Get over it Cherie, men can now become women when it suits them ok. It doesn't matter what you actual women think!! Next you'll be wanting the right to vote, Christ!

:joker:

[user104658]

To suggest that the situation regarding gender, gender transition and the landscape both cultural and political hasn't changed since 2010 is naive at best, deliberately blinkered as a happy medium and flat-out disingenuous at worst.

There wasn't a huge outrage and backlash about trans rights and particularly in regards to women's spaces in the past because in the past the number of trans people was tiny, and in almost their entirety they were people who - whatever one's thoughts on gender/sex - were in themselves acting in good faith.

In 2023 the motivations are diverse and the increase in numbers staggering - you cannot separate it from culture wars. It's different now BECAUSE of culture walls, because of incel/redpill ideologies and cultures, because of rampant "chronically online" misogyny, and because people who are not acting in good faith know that major loopholes are being opened up that they can exploit.

No one dares address it because ANY skepticism is branded transphobia. It's just flat out shocking that trans rights, and massively ironic, has been appropriated by blatant misogyny and redpill/porn culture and there has been no pushback from the genuine LGBT community but here we are. Most I think are just still refusing to believe that it's happening. Some I horribly suspect just don't really care because it doesn't personally affect them.

[Niamh.]

I have a couple of questions about this. They are good faith questions not meant as gotchas, but as an attempt to try and understand more about how you think.

Who are these men with all this power to tell women what and what not to think and fear? If you take the lawmakers in this country, for example, all of the men with the power to protect women's spaces, mostly appear on the face of it to be anti-trans. If we're talking about the Scottish bill, then it was the equality act in 2010 that opened up womens spaces, and why wasn't there all this outrage back then rather than being used in a modern day culture war? Was there outrage that I just missed?

Do you think it's men telling women to shut up, or do you think that both men and women can be either pro, or anti-trans and both can express their opinions equally vocally? Do you think that trans rights is a civil rights issue?

A really weird issue I have with all of this, is that the anti-trans community seem perfectly fine with sending a person they consider a woman, into a male bathroom, so don't you think they would be more vulnerable, and yet they seem completely excluded in any discussion?

Well in regards to this tweet I'm pretty sure JK Rowling is talking about a specific set of men on Twitter who constantly lecture women on this topic (Owen Jones being an example) You don't need to have power to tell someone anything.

In regards to specific bills, a lot of this stuff was done under the radar, people have only started realising what changes have been happening in the last few years (I know that's true for me, for example Self ID in Ireland was snuck in on the back of the very popular Gay marriage referendum here, people voted for Self ID without actually knowing they did that. There was actually a report called The Denton report advising activists to use strategies like that in order to change laws.

Anyway, here’s another tip from the document: ‘Tie your campaign to more popular reform.’

For example:

‘In Ireland, Denmark and Norway, changes to the law on legal gender recognition were put through at the same time as other more popular reforms such as marriage equality legislation. This provided a veil of protection, particularly in Ireland, where marriage equality was strongly supported, but gender identity remained a more difficult issue to win public support for.’
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-document-that-reveals-the-remarkable-tactics-of-trans-lobbyists/

Do you think it's men telling women to shut up, or do you think that both men and women can be either pro, or anti-trans and both can express their opinions equally vocally?
I'm not anti trans, I'm pro women just for clarification. Of course there are women on the "other side" too but men seem more vocal to me and obviously a man telling a woman what a woman is or isn't is more jarring.
Do you think that trans rights is a civil rights issue?
No, I don't. I think it's an identity politics issue, trans people already have the same human rights as everyone else.

A really weird issue I have with all of this, is that the anti-trans community seem perfectly fine with sending a person they consider a woman, into a male bathroom, so don't you think they would be more vulnerable, and yet they seem completely excluded in any discussion?

"Anti-trans Community" is an odd concept but anyway, who is "sending" transmen into mens bathrooms? This is an odd question, if a transman chooses to enter the mens toilets they're choosing to take that risk, the women in the womens toilets aren't choosing to have have men in there?

[user104658]

I hate to sound all Tumblr and say Male Privilege, but ... :joker:

Or at least it's the result of male socialisation, where they insist and guilt-trip their way into whatever spaces they want, but give entry requirements to their own.

This has been a double-standard for many years, ever since the term "genital fetishist" started creeping in as an insult (and pressuring tool) against lesbians.

You're a woman who likes women and you say you're only interested in women with vaginas, and wouldn't consider a sexual relationship with a trans woman because you have no interest in penis: prepare to be blasted as a transphobe/genital fetishist/creep by trans women and gay men.

You're a gay man who gleefully states that not only are you only interested in penis, but in fact the bigger the better, penis and only penis all day long! ... it's rarely branded anything other than completely understandable. Literally zero backlash against gay men who aren't interested in men who don't have penises.

I feel it's important to note here that I think the latter is COMPLETELY VALID and an individuals sexual preferences WHATEVER they may be (disclaimer: consenting adults, obviously) are personal and valid and beyond questioning by anyone else. Gay men are allowed to like penis. Gay women are allowed to enjoy vaginas. It's not weird/creepy/gross for sexually active adults to be able to make these decisions FFS.

But yes a bit off topic - basically I was saying, it's seemingly always been OK for gay men to slam lesbians as transphobes for not dating trans women in one breath and then openly declare that they wouldn't touch a vagina with a 10 foot pole in the next :shrug:.

[The Slim Reaper]

Well in regards to this tweet I'm pretty sure JK Rowling is talking about a specific set of men on Twitter who constantly lecture women on this topic (Owen Jones being an example) You don't need to have power to tell someone anything.

In regards to specific bills, a lot of this stuff was done under the radar, people have only started realising what changes have been happening in the last few years (I know that's true for me, for example Self ID in Ireland was snuck in on the back of the very popular Gay marriage referendum here, people voted for Self ID without actually knowing they did that. There was actually a report called The Denton report advising activists to use strategies like that in order to change laws.

Anyway, here’s another tip from the document: ‘Tie your campaign to more popular reform.’

For example:

‘In Ireland, Denmark and Norway, changes to the law on legal gender recognition were put through at the same time as other more popular reforms such as marriage equality legislation. This provided a veil of protection, particularly in Ireland, where marriage equality was strongly supported, but gender identity remained a more difficult issue to win public support for.’
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-document-that-reveals-the-remarkable-tactics-of-trans-lobbyists/

Do you think it's men telling women to shut up, or do you think that both men and women can be either pro, or anti-trans and both can express their opinions equally vocally?
I'm not anti trans, I'm pro women just for clarification. Of course there are women on the "other side" too but men seem more vocal to me and obviously a man telling a woman what a woman is or isn't is more jarring.
Do you think that trans rights is a civil rights issue?
No, I don't. I think it's an identity politics issue, trans people already have the same human rights as everyone else.

A really weird issue I have with all of this, is that the anti-trans community seem perfectly fine with sending a person they consider a woman, into a male bathroom, so don't you think they would be more vulnerable, and yet they seem completely excluded in any discussion?

"Anti-trans Community" is an odd concept but anyway, who is "sending" transmen into mens bathrooms? This is an odd question, if a transman chooses to enter the mens toilets they're choosing to take that risk, the women in the womens toilets aren't choosing to have have men in there?

Cheers for taking the time to reply,

[bots]

The Slim Terf Reaper has a certain ring to it

[user104658]

A really weird issue I have with all of this, is that the anti-trans community seem perfectly fine with sending a person they consider a woman, into a male bathroom, so don't you think they would be more vulnerable, and yet they seem completely excluded in any discussion?

There's a bit of a catch 22 on that one - if they're a trans man who is still obviously biologically female and is at risk, in which case it's their choice to use the men's bathroom, not to excuse the risk but it is a fundamental that people have the autonomy to take their own risks but not insist on risk for others. If they look female and would be at risk, no one is going to question them using female bathrooms.

If (like most trans men over time, because T is a helluva drug) they're a trans man who simply looks like a maybe slightly short bloke then they're not actually at increased risk.

I'm just going to veer into what might be considered offensive territory here becauser there's no other way to talk about this part without talking in circles - there's an elephant in the room that some trans people are convincingly the gender they've chosen and some are not. The bathroom issue in general is far more complicated because of that issue - there's no denying that trans women are at SERIOUS risk of harm in male bathrooms either way - "convincingly female" trans women of sexual assault, "clearly trans" trans women because they might simply have an actual violent bigot turn on them.

There's no easy answer but again the point has never been "let's do nothing, what we have is fine" vs "let's forge ahead with everyone using whichever spaces they fancy being in" ... it's MASSIVELY complicated, it needs a TONNE of work in psychology, sociology and legislation to get anywhere close to a solution but people are, frankly, even understandably, impatient. They don't want to slow down. We don't live in a rational world of contemplation and compromise, we live in a world where it's "All, NOW, or you're a bigot!"

[user104658]

Again being fair to TiBB - I managed to get into this on TikTok (I know, I know...) and within 4 or 5 posts it had descended into someone telling me that God is non-binary and Jesus is trans, because if Mary was a virgin Jesus couldn't have had male chromosomes in order to be born male.

I tapped out at that point. Americans eh :joker:

[The Slim Reaper]

The Slim Terf Reaper has a certain ring to it

I'm just acknowledging biology :hehe:

[GoldHeart]

I have just read a tweet where transmen can access some gay saunas ONLY if they have top surgery, but men with penises can go where they like?

Which is a literal double standard tbh .

[GoldHeart]

Again being fair to TiBB - I managed to get into this on TikTok (I know, I know...) and within 4 or 5 posts it had descended into someone telling me that God is non-binary and Jesus is trans, because if Mary was a virgin Jesus couldn't have had male chromosomes in order to be born male.

I tapped out at that point. Americans eh :joker:

You're laughing but it's not funny,this is also another reason why more people are identifying as "trans" & "non binary" thanks to sh1tty sh1tty tiktok , there's no proper education or genuine information, you can simply be what you want without any dysphoria or anything.
These tiktokers just want views & attention , and the scary thing is alot of their audience are children. So yeah things will only get worse.

[Liam-]

Tiktok isn’t making people trans don’t be so bloody easily led

[GoldHeart]

Tiktok isn’t making people trans don’t be so bloody easily led

Here we go again
If you don't think a social media platform as big as tiktok isn't influencing people's choices,then I think you're the naive one .

And I'm talking impressionable kids ,who are usually the main demographic of these channels. It's the same with YouTube ...when there's a big old loud voice with alot of followers ,and people hang on their every word.

[Liam-]

No, social media platforms aren’t making people trans, like they can’t make people gay, or bisexual or you can’t make someone straight, stop parroting things that ate just blatantly not true if you look at them with even an ounce of logic or thought other than ‘we have to stop trans people!’

[user104658]

Tiktok isn’t making people trans don’t be so bloody easily led

TikTok is 100% part of the increase in young teenage girls identifying as boys and teenagers in general identifying as non-binary. Is it making people genuinely trans? No, it's an aesthetic the same way that skaters/goths were the aesthetic when I was at high school. It's also basically harmless IF it's allowed to just be what it is and most of them just do a bit of experimenting and then figure themselves out which is completely normal for teens.

It would be fine if it was allowed to just be what it is but it's also simply true that TikTok and other social media sells a version of reality that is patently false; e.g. that puberty blockers are reversible or a good idea, or that reassignment surgery is a simple process and not a major bodily trauma with permanent health consequences.

[GoldHeart]

TikTok is 100% part of the increase in young teenage girls identifying as boys and teenagers in general identifying as non-binary. Is it making people genuinely trans? No, it's an aesthetic the same way that skaters/goths were the aesthetic when I was at high school. It's also basically harmless IF it's allowed to just be what it is and most of them just do a bit of experimenting and then figure themselves out which is completely normal for teens.

It would be fine if it was allowed to just be what it is but it's also simply true that TikTok and other social media sells a version of reality that is patently false; e.g. that puberty blockers are reversible or a good idea, or that reassignment surgery is a simple process and not a major bodily trauma with permanent health consequences.


Exactly
This is why we're in this mess , I can't stand tiktok.

I truly believe that alot of these youngsters would have just been goth or emo if it was back when I was at school,but now with all these influencers they're fed other ideas .

[Oliver_W]

The social contagion is strong. As TS said, as long as it's humoured to a certain point and not medically pursued, there's no real harm in it. Most will grow out of it.

[user104658]

No, social media platforms aren’t making people trans, like they can’t make people gay, or bisexual or you can’t make someone straight, stop parroting things that ate just blatantly not true if you look at them with even an ounce of logic or thought other than ‘we have to stop trans people!’

I'd be genuinely interested to hear if you think the same about non-binary identities.

I mean I'm just going to be real here and say that my daughter has a TONNE of natal-female friends who identify as non-binary. They look, sound, and socialise as entirely female - but they certainly claim to be non-binary and quite a few identify as boys. To be clear; they identify as boys but all of their friends are girls, they're "gay" and have crushes on straight boys, and they are visually and socially quite clearly female other than having short hair. She already (by EARLY teens) has multiple friends who are biologically female, were "male" for a year to 18 months (with a new name and everything) and are ALREADY back to being female with their original name. This is anecdotal yes, but it's also documented to be the case in schools all across the western world.

It's not the same as sexuality in the slightest, entirely unrelated and not even really comparable, and there's just no doubt whatsoever that there's an element of aesthetics and trends for young people.

Again not saying that "real" dysphoria isn't a thing, just that there are multiple very different things at play here and one of them is absolutely a social trend. Again, in my day these same kids would have been buying a leather duster coat and chains, loading up on eyeliner and calling themselves "Azrael". It is the same thing. LGBTQ has been thoroughly appropriated by a tonne of young people who will shed it as soon as they find a style they like better.

[GoldHeart]

You know something ...I don't know what Aretha Franklin would say if she was alive today, are they seriously trying to cancel her song !?? ! :crazy::facepalm: . Ridiculous .

Aretha Franklin was a legend in the music industry!! .

[Liam-]

Again, I guarantee you that nobody is really out there actually wanting to cancel Aretha Franklin or her songs, stop letting the media get you so angry over things that aren’t happening, or even if they were happening, don’t matter in the least to you or the world

[GoldHeart]

Again, I guarantee you that nobody is really out there actually wanting to cancel Aretha Franklin or her songs, stop letting the media get you so angry over things that aren’t happening, or even if they were happening, don’t matter in the least to you or the world

Of course they CAN'T cancel her , because it's so stupid & ridiculous.

But to actually say her song 'Natural Woman ' is somehow offensive!?, just shows how crazy things have gone .

[Oliver_W]

I'm nearly certain that tweet was satire. It's too stupid not tk be.

[Liam-]

Of course they CAN'T cancel her , because it's so stupid & ridiculous.

But to actually say her song 'Natural Woman ' is somehow offensive!?, just shows how crazy things have gone .

Like I said, I would put everything I own on nobody actually wanting to genuinely do that and it’s just even more right wing media manufactured nonsense to anger easily lead people, just like the whole ‘can’t say Christmas anymore!!’ ‘Gays want to ban fairytale of New York!!’ debacle we’re subjected to every single year

[GoldHeart]

I'm nearly certain that tweet was satire. It's too stupid not tk be.

This problem is in 2023 nobody knows what is serious or a joke anymore, that's how silly & delusional everything has become.

I think the tweet is real ,but it's been blown out of proportion. As it's just one twitter account.

[Beso]

We dont get to hear the word ****** in fairy tail of New York cause of the gays making a scene about it.


So I personally wouldn't put everything I owned on this.

[GoldHeart]

We dont get to hear the word ****** in fairy tail of New York cause of the gays making a scene about it.

Actually it wasn't just that censored , the slur towards Kirsty being a s**t was also cut out .

[Niamh.]

We dont get to hear the word ****** in fairy tail of New York cause of the gays making a scene about it.


So I personally wouldn't put everything I owned on this.

Any radio station I heard it played on during Christmas played the original version :shrug:

[Liam-]

This problem is in 2023 nobody knows what is serious or a joke anymore, that's how silly & delusional everything has become.

I think the tweet is real ,but it's been blown out of proportion. As it's just one twitter account.

That’s how the media has conditioned you to think about things

[Beso]

Any radio station I heard it played on during Christmas played the original version :shrug:

In this country they dont. Ireland is more right wing than us.

[Liam-]

If a radio station chooses to censor the word ****** in a song, they’re doing it off their own accord and it gets blamed on the gays for ‘putting them under pressure’ when it’s just simply not true

[Niamh.]

In this country they dont. Ireland is more right wing than us.

Do you think? Jeez I don't know about that :laugh: Maybe NI is. Our political parties are much less divided into left/right though then yours or in the US I think

[Beso]

A gay bloke probably made the decision.

[Beso]

Do you think? Jeez I don't know about that :laugh: Maybe NI is. Our political parties are much less divided into left/right though then yours or in the US I think

Course use are.

For example, your current growing unrest and increasing protests outside asylum hotels.

You dont get that in britain. We are far more tolerant than you lot.

[Liam-]

I’m actually not sure why I even joined in this conversation tbh, I put myself on a ban from taking part of these ‘debates’ on here :joker:

[Niamh.]

Course use are.

For example, your current growing unrest and increasing protests outside asylum hotels.

You dont get that in britain. We are far more tolerant than you lot.

I mean "you lot" left the EU because you thought it would stop refugees but Ok..... :laugh:

[Beso]

I mean "you lot" left the EU because you thought it would stop refugees but Ok..... :laugh:

I think you are scared to address the issue of how racist ireland has become.

[The Slim Reaper]

I’m actually not sure why I even joined in this conversation tbh, I put myself on a ban from taking part of these ‘debates’ on here :joker:

Is that so you've got more time to look through back catalogues and see which songs you want to ban next? :laugh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

They say next year Christmas was be just called Winterville as it's offending BLM

Also Blackpool will become Whitescum

They have a go fundme page as there saving for some road signs. Arista AAA Road Signs ltd have won the contract

[Cherie]

No, social media platforms aren’t making people trans, like they can’t make people gay, or bisexual or you can’t make someone straight, stop parroting things that ate just blatantly not true if you look at them with even an ounce of logic or thought other than ‘we have to stop trans people!’

I believe what GH meant is kids are influenced into thinking they are, but most eventually grow out of

[Niamh.]

I think you are scared to address the issue of how racist ireland has become.

https://img.gifglobe.com/grabs/fatherted/S01E03/gif/mAtdKr5EBwq4.gif

[Oliver_W]

I heard the word ****** plenty of times on the radio over the festive period :shrug: and the times that I didn't? My day went on exactly the same!

[Liam-]

Is that so you've got more time to look through back catalogues and see which songs you want to ban next? :laugh:

It’s like a bloody full time job :hmph:

[Jordan.]

You know something ...I don't know what Aretha Franklin would say if she was alive today, are they seriously trying to cancel her song !?? ! :crazy::facepalm: . Ridiculous .

Aretha Franklin was a legend in the music industry!! .

It's sad you used to see through the transparency of tabloid claims like this, I don't know what changed recently. None of these things would ever gain legs if a certain audience didn't believe it and start expressing their outrage.

[Mystic Mock]

Again being fair to TiBB - I managed to get into this on TikTok (I know, I know...) and within 4 or 5 posts it had descended into someone telling me that God is non-binary and Jesus is trans, because if Mary was a virgin Jesus couldn't have had male chromosomes in order to be born male.

I tapped out at that point. Americans eh :joker:

The Americans are the only people that can nearly push me into Xenophobia.:joker:

[Mystic Mock]

I'm nearly certain that tweet was satire. It's too stupid not tk be.

Oh in 2023 I wouldn't put it past at least one idiot that would feel like this.

[Mystic Mock]

I’m actually not sure why I even joined in this conversation tbh, I put myself on a ban from taking part of these ‘debates’ on here :joker:

Tbf it's good to hear the other side of the debate.

The worst thing to happen to this Forum would be for it to become an echo chamber.

Basically I mean that your contribution is very much needed.

[The Slim Reaper]

Tbf it's good to hear the other side of the debate.

The worst thing to happen to this Forum would be for it to become an echo chamber.

Basically I mean that your contribution is very much needed.

Become an echo chamber? It's been that way a long time, brother.

[bots]

Become an echo chamber? It's been that way a long time, brother.

no it hasnt

[The Slim Reaper]

no it hasnt

It has

[Beso]

It has

I can think of at least 15 threads that have had various differing opinions over the last year.

[Cherie]

I think Slim is confusing us with the girlies :worry:

[The Slim Reaper]

I think Slim is confusing us with the girlies :worry:

What?

[GoldHeart]

It's sad you used to see through the transparency of tabloid claims like this, I don't know what changed recently. None of these things would ever gain legs if a certain audience didn't believe it and start expressing their outrage.

Of course I see through bs ,but as I said in my other reply to Liam ....in 2023 it's hard to tell what's tongue in cheek anymore. And i realise it was just 1 tweet being hyped up .

[user104658]

This thread alone is evidence that it's not an echo chamber.

Is there a good quality of debate? No. But that's not an echo chamber.

[user104658]

This thread alone is evidence that it's not an echo chamber.

Is there a good quality of debate? No. But that's not an echo chamber.

[The Slim Reaper]

The defensiveness to declare it isn't, is proof it is. I was the only person to post about the thread, Liam posted a differing opinion on a slightly different topic, and that's it. Anyone can go back and see what happens if you post different opinions, when a group tried to make the thread about me. Hivemind.

[Beso]

The defensiveness to declare it isn't, is proof it is. I was the only person to post about the thread, Liam posted a differing opinion on a slightly different topic, and that's it. Anyone can go back and see what happens if you post different opinions, when a group tried to make the thread about me. Hivemind.



You seem to be the only person saying it is an echo chamber, when about 4 other people are saying it isnt. I would say your constant insistence that it is, is where the proof it isnt lays.

[Oliver_W]

To be fair you'd be hard-pressed to deny that the general consensus leans more toward women than transwomen - but even within that, the exact same views aren't being espoused.

[The Slim Reaper]

You seem to be the only person saying it is an echo chamber, when about 4 other people are saying it isnt. I would say your constant insistence that it is, is where the proof it isnt lays.

You mean, sort of like an echo where you all make each other feel comfortable? :laugh2:

It doesn't make any difference, people who post here will post here until they stop, so it's not even a big deal.

[user104658]

The defensiveness to declare it isn't, is proof it is. I was the only person to post about the thread, Liam posted a differing opinion on a slightly different topic, and that's it. Anyone can go back and see what happens if you post different opinions, when a group tried to make the thread about me. Hivemind.

Its not even if you ignore this thread (and issue) entirely, a quick glance at the Harry and Meghan thread(s) or if you scroll back a bit the Depp trial is clear enough evidence that the forum isn't an echo chamber.

MASSIVELY tribal, sure.

[The Slim Reaper]

Its not even if you ignore this thread (and issue) entirely, a quick glance at the Harry and Meghan thread(s) or if you scroll back a bit the Depp trial is clear enough evidence that the forum isn't an echo chamber.

MASSIVELY tribal, sure.

You mean the H&M threads where glenn and Jordan pop on to post in before they disappear again, and rarely ever post anywhere else? What does the repetition in those threads say? The johnny thread is obviously a different issue and not really a good example, because he was part of a lot of adolescences and childhoods, so impartiality will always be grey - same as Michael Jackson.

Like I said, it's not a big deal as it doesn't really affect anything, but it definitely exists.

[Beso]

One thread topic out of the thousands available does not make tibb an exho chamber.

[Glenn.]

It has

:clap1:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Good to see no one is for this rapist and his pretend "im a lady" schpeel

Noone is supporting him going to a woman's prison to rape more women

Slim has resorted to attacking tibb and Glen is cheerleading him as a way to attack the forum

Id say that on the actual thread topic, this is progress of a type

We might actually have hit a thread/forum consensus

:laugh:

[Beso]

:clap1:

Is this an example of echo chamber, slim?

[Crimson Dynamo]

This interview is beyond crazy. I urge you to watch to see how far the hard left have gone down the rabbit hole with this militant and dangerous trans activism (male misogyny)

o3uYxVUS_-4

[Crimson Dynamo]

I married the man who became 'transgender' rapist Isla Bryson - and think
'she' only became a woman to get an easier time in jail: Estranged wife of
attacker previously known as Adam Graham slams 'sham decision' to put sex offender in women's prison



his ex twists the knife into this spineless man

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/01/25/16/66962941-11676069-image-a-51_1674663974675.jpg


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11676069/Estranged-wife-transgender-rapist-Isla-Bryson-warns-never-stop.html

[hijaxers]

I married the man who became 'transgender' rapist Isla Bryson - and think
'she' only became a woman to get an easier time in jail: Estranged wife of
attacker previously known as Adam Graham slams 'sham decision' to put sex offender in women's prison



his ex twists the knife into this spineless man

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/01/25/16/66962941-11676069-image-a-51_1674663974675.jpg


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11676069/Estranged-wife-transgender-rapist-Isla-Bryson-warns-never-stop.html


Spineless !! :laugh: He should be totally ashamed walking about with a wig and a walnut.

[Mystic Mock]

Become an echo chamber? It's been that way a long time, brother.

As long as people like yourself, Liam & Glenn are all still posting on this Forum, it just about holds off being an echo chamber, thankfully.

Just like members that hold the other viewpoint on this issue are also bringing their own value to the Forum.

[user104658]

The ad hominem in threads like this one is inevitable really, because the counter position to what's being said is not a defensible stance. More specifically, properly engaging in this thread would involve continuing to argue that there aren't safeguarding concerns when there's a lack of caution in pursuing changes in sex/gender legislation. Anyone with any vague common sense at this point knows this isn't true, but there's a huge amount of hesitance when it comes to relinquishing that ground. I do get why, to be fair. For fear of ALLOWING an "enemy" echo chamber. The only possible counterattack being the good ol' personal attack on either the quality of the speaker or the validity of the platform.

[Crimson Dynamo]

A humiliated Nicola Sturgeon today admitted Isla Bryson will be transferred from
women's prison and moved to jail with male inmates.

The Scottish First Minister refused four times to deny the transgender double rapist
remains in the all-female Cornton Vale prison in Stirling ahead of sentencing on
February 28.

But she hinted that Bryson, who was born a man, still has a penis and only began
transitioning after being charged with rape, would be moved to a male jail in the next
72 hours following a risk assessment by the Scottish Prison Service.

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/01/26/12/66994361-11679469-image-a-1_1674735884225.jpg
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/01/26/12/66910429-11679469-Transgender_criminal_Isla_Bryson_at_the_High_Court _in_Glasgow-a-12_1674735960756.jpg

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11679469/Transgender-double-rapist-Isla-Bryson-transferred-womens-prison-Nicola-Sturgeon-says.html

[Niamh.]

This aged well..........

https://twitter.com/PeterTatchell/status/1617484888067772418?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 23, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[bots]

she will look even more foolish taking the UK government to court now on the gender stuff too

[Cherie]

This aged well..........

https://twitter.com/PeterTatchell/status/1617484888067772418?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 23, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I hope he issues an apology to women

[Oliver_W]

This aged well..........

https://twitter.com/PeterTatchell/status/1617484888067772418?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 23, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This is bordering on Gay Blasphemy but he really creeps me out.

[GoldHeart]

This aged well..........

https://twitter.com/PeterTatchell/status/1617484888067772418?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 23, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This has basically become the norm in Scotland, especially now after Sturgeon tone deaf bill .

I remember Blaire White talking about another incident,where a MALE rapist ...was getting special treatment in Scotland. Basically it was 'offensive' to call them a rapist ...as they conveniently became a 'woman' . The photo of the creep still looked like a man aswell,yet we're all supposed to just go "yep ok female now " :crazy: .

[Alf]

So it turns out that this woman wasn't a woman afterall?

[Niamh.]

I hope he issues an apology to women

Did he ****!

https://twitter.com/PeterTatchell/status/1618352438209126402?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 25, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Cherie]

Did he ****!

https://twitter.com/PeterTatchell/status/1618352438209126402?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 25, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


I guess he will be referring to Nicola as a TERF then

[Niamh.]

I guess he will be referring to Nicola as a TERF then

The rules are so muddy now they're all probably messing up the "correct" reactions/language to use.

[Cherie]

The rules are so muddy now they're all probably messing up the "correct" reactions/language to use.

Quite, he is still being referred to as a 'she' but being put in a male prison, you could not make this shiz up....oh wait it was so obvious predators would take advantage of these loopholes, but hey its only women that are at risk so no harm done

[arista]

So it turns out that this woman wasn't a woman afterall?


What he has a Cock?

[arista]

This interview is beyond crazy. I urge you to watch to see how far the hard left have gone down the rabbit hole with this militant and dangerous trans activism (male misogyny)

o3uYxVUS_-4



Yes Glad
she went on his International Show.

[GoldHeart]

What he has a Cock?

Dylan Mulvany was telling people to "normalise the bulge" :crazy:.

Yet trans men have to have top surgery just to be considered in male spaces , got to love the double standards of this mess .

[Liam-]

Dylan Mulvany was telling people to "normalise the bulge" :crazy:.

Yet trans men have to have top surgery just to be considered in male spaces , got to love the double standards of this mess .

Do you know that for a fact or are you just parroting more nonsense you’ve heard people say without any basis?

[hijaxers]

What he has a Cock?

Yes and he's full of Bull

[GoldHeart]

Do you know that for a fact or are you just parroting more nonsense you’ve heard people say without any basis?

Literally someone on here mentioned a male space where trans men have to physically pass .
Plus I'm sure Buck Angel said he had issues before he fully transitioned ,I know that was a long time ago.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I was embarrassed by listening to Sheila Fogerty on LBC and some expert discuss this case and refer to the bloke all the time as she. This is despite her opening the show saying she firmly believes this male rapist was "at it" to bend a loophole

This is how far the rabbit hole we are now. Bloke puts on a wig and gets a pink phone cover and the media all refer to him as she

A female LABOUR politician told Times Radio today we should offer "her" all the support she needs to help with "her transition"


f me who would ever cast a vote for Labour?

[arista]

Scotland has said He/She
will not go to a Woman's Prison

[Niamh.]

Scotland has said He/She
will not go to a Woman's Prison

I think it's vital we refer to a person who raped women as "he". So disrespectful to his victims to do otherwise imo

[arista]

Transgender rapist Isla Bryson to be
moved from women's prison

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64413242

[Crimson Dynamo]

Transgender rapist Isla Bryson to be
moved from women's prison

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64413242

He isnt trans Arista

its a bloke rapist in a wig

[GoldHeart]

I think it's vital we refer to a person who raped women as "he". So disrespectful to his victims to do otherwise imo

Exactly it's seriously baffling to say otherwise :umm2:.

[Swan]

Seems a lot of men, especially gay men, know better than you women!

[Cherie]

I was embarrassed by listening to Sheila Fogerty on LBC and some expert discuss this case and refer to the bloke all the time as she. This is despite her opening the show saying she firmly believes this male rapist was "at it" to bend a loophole

This is how far the rabbit hole we are now. Bloke puts on a wig and gets a pink phone cover and the media all refer to him as she

A female LABOUR politician told Times Radio today we should offer "her" all the support she needs to help with "her transition"


f me who would ever cast a vote for Labour?

:laugh:

I heard Shelia F very disappointing I thought she has a bit of sense

[UserSince2005]

It’s offensive to keep calling him transgender.

[UserSince2005]

I think it's vital we refer to a person who raped women as "he". So disrespectful to his victims to do otherwise imo

And disrespectful to people who are actually transgender

[GoldHeart]

Even on the BBC news they still keep saying "she " & "trans woman" :facepalm:.

This is a MALE rapist & HE raped HIS victims.

[Zizu]

Even on the BBC news they still keep saying "she " & "trans woman" :facepalm:.

This is a MALE rapist & HE raped HIS victims.


Plus he is still ‘intact’ !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Oliver_W]

It’s offensive to keep calling him transgender.

Nah it's not, tranners can commit crimes :shrug:

[GoldHeart]

Nah it's not, tranners can commit crimes :shrug:

Yeah but He's not trans

[rusticgal]

I was embarrassed by listening to Sheila Fogerty on LBC and some expert discuss this case and refer to the bloke all the time as she. This is despite her opening the show saying she firmly believes this male rapist was "at it" to bend a loophole

This is how far the rabbit hole we are now. Bloke puts on a wig and gets a pink phone cover and the media all refer to him as she

A female LABOUR politician told Times Radio today we should offer "her" all the support she needs to help with "her transition"


f me who would ever cast a vote for Labour?


Sheila Fogarty is an idiot…

[Crimson Dynamo]

Sheila Fogarty is an idiot…

she is a hand-wringing liberal eejit

[BBDodge]

I was embarrassed by listening to Sheila Fogerty on LBC and some expert discuss this case and refer to the bloke all the time as she. This is despite her opening the show saying she firmly believes this male rapist was "at it" to bend a loophole

This is how far the rabbit hole we are now. Bloke puts on a wig and gets a pink phone cover and the media all refer to him as she

A female LABOUR politician told Times Radio today we should offer "her" all the support she needs to help with "her transition"


f me who would ever cast a vote for Labour?

Latest Westminster voting intention:

LAB: 50% (+5)
CON: 21% (-)

Just staying alive is a bigger election issue than someone with a penis in a women's prison.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Latest Westminster voting intention:

LAB: 50% (+5)
CON: 21% (-)

Just staying alive is a bigger election issue than someone with a penis in a women's prison.

the number of people who will die from lack of funds in the uk will be around 0.0001%

so you are talking BS

unless you have any evidence?

meanwhile your callous lack of empathy for the single most vulnerable women in the UK is frankly sickening

https://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-11tea.gif

[hijaxers]

Even on the BBC news they still keep saying "she " & "trans woman" :facepalm:.

This is a MALE rapist & HE raped HIS victims.

Thats the BBC for ya ~ turned into unwatchable news years ago.

[Cherie]

It’s offensive to keep calling him transgender.

Of course it is offensive, at least you are getting to the point of what women have been pointing out for years while being abused and called bigots and TERFS

[arista]

Moved to a Male Prison.

[Niamh.]

Male prison, however....5561

[Swan]

Male prison, however....5561

Pathetic...And anyone who says otherwise sees women as 2nd class citizens.

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/BDDB/production/_128430684_thedailytelegraph-nc.png.webp

[Livia]

The subject of this thread is neither a woman nor a transwoman. He is a parody of a woman.

[bots]

that is what highlights how far society has disappeared into the vortex. The guy is obviously a man and perpetrated his crimes as a man. If the crims don't want issues with prisons, they shouldn't do the crime

[user104658]

At the very least, it highlights quite clearly why the amendment to the law that the SNP was seeking was a massive mis-step. I often see the argument; "would someone really pose and live as a woman for 2 years in order to gain access to women's spaces?". I still say yes there are a very small number of predatory men who absolutely would switch gender full-time if it made predation easier... but there is some logic in the argument. It would be a major commitment.

...but would a predatory man pose as trans for three months for disingenuous reasons? Of course they would. It's 3 months... 12/13 weeks... it's no time at all! Saying "I've been living as X/Y/Z for three months" means absolutely nothing ... 3 months passes in the blink of an eye. You might as well have no time element at all and just say you can do it whenever you want, or rather, abandon the concept of woman-only safe spaces entirely.

I've even seen some people try to argue that we "don't need them" :facepalm:. If we didn't need them, they would never have existed in the first place.

[user104658]

that is what highlights how far society has disappeared into the vortex. The guy is obviously a man and perpetrated his crimes as a man. If the crims don't want issues with prisons, they shouldn't do the crime

Exactly and a fairly succinct way around a lot of it would just be to say, when sentenced you're sentenced based on who you were at the time of the crime, not at the time of the trial or sentencing. That would remove this loophole, at least.

[Crimson Dynamo]

its a huge rid neck for Nicola

[bots]

Exactly and a fairly succinct way around a lot of it would just be to say, when sentenced you're sentenced based on who you were at the time of the crime, not at the time of the trial or sentencing. That would remove this loophole, at least.

it's also being inconsistent with other legal trial fundamentals. In being sentenced, you can only serve the maximum time that was applicable at the time the crime was committed, now thay are saying they can change some of the parameters as it suits them

[GoldHeart]

Sturgeon has egg on her face .

[Beso]

its a huge rid neck for Nicola

It will go nicely with her alcoholic looking bloated red face then

[Beso]

Exactly and a fairly succinct way around a lot of it would just be to say, when sentenced you're sentenced based on who you were at the time of the crime, not at the time of the trial or sentencing. That would remove this loophole, at least.

Is that what happens with someone convicted of something when they were to young to go to adult jail, but at the time of sentencing they are old enough to go to adult jail?

I see loophole.

[Crimson Dynamo]

JK Roasts Sturgeon

https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/1200x712/4325399.jpg?r=1665061058538

She tweeted: 'So in Nicola Sturgeon’s Scotland, trans women AREN’T women if they’re convicted double rapists, like Adam ‘Isla Bryson’ Graham.

'However, trans woman and paedophile Katie Dolatowski, who covertly filmed a 12-year-old and attempted to rape a 10-year-old, both offences committed in women’s public bathrooms, IS a woman and remains in the women’s prison from which Adam Graham is to be removed.

'Never forget, Sturgeon, her government and supporters have insisted that it is ludicrous to imagine anyone would dress in women’s clothes to get access to vulnerable women and girls. Wouldn’t happen. Everyone is who they say they are. To question this is hate'.

She then quoted George Orwell's 1984: 'The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11684175/JK-Rowling-roasts-Nicola-Sturgeon-decision-send-trans-double-rapist-womens-prison.html

[Cherie]

JK Roasts Sturgeon

https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/1200x712/4325399.jpg?r=1665061058538

She tweeted: 'So in Nicola Sturgeon’s Scotland, trans women AREN’T women if they’re convicted double rapists, like Adam ‘Isla Bryson’ Graham.

'However, trans woman and paedophile Katie Dolatowski, who covertly filmed a 12-year-old and attempted to rape a 10-year-old, both offences committed in women’s public bathrooms, IS a woman and remains in the women’s prison from which Adam Graham is to be removed.

'Never forget, Sturgeon, her government and supporters have insisted that it is ludicrous to imagine anyone would dress in women’s clothes to get access to vulnerable women and girls. Wouldn’t happen. Everyone is who they say they are. To question this is hate'.

She then quoted George Orwell's 1984: 'The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11684175/JK-Rowling-roasts-Nicola-Sturgeon-decision-send-trans-double-rapist-womens-prison.html

:conf:

[GoldHeart]

JK Roasts Sturgeon

https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/1200x712/4325399.jpg?r=1665061058538

She tweeted: 'So in Nicola Sturgeon’s Scotland, trans women AREN’T women if they’re convicted double rapists, like Adam ‘Isla Bryson’ Graham.

'However, trans woman and paedophile Katie Dolatowski, who covertly filmed a 12-year-old and attempted to rape a 10-year-old, both offences committed in women’s public bathrooms, IS a woman and remains in the women’s prison from which Adam Graham is to be removed.

'Never forget, Sturgeon, her government and supporters have insisted that it is ludicrous to imagine anyone would dress in women’s clothes to get access to vulnerable women and girls. Wouldn’t happen. Everyone is who they say they are. To question this is hate'.

She then quoted George Orwell's 1984: 'The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11684175/JK-Rowling-roasts-Nicola-Sturgeon-decision-send-trans-double-rapist-womens-prison.html


Sturgeon needs to resign ! . She has created such a mess !.

[Crimson Dynamo]

But for many children struggling with their sense of self, transition is a way of
escaping a truth – or many truths – which frighten or distress them. It may
be an attempt to escape being sexualised. It may be an attempt to escape
social awkwardness. It may be an attempt to nullify their homosexuality. Or
an attempt to flee the body in which they were physically or sexually abused.
Making it easier for young people to transition – by permitting children to
self-ID, by making it hard for doctors and therapists to have meaningful
conversations with them – lengthens and ruts the road to recovery.

We cannot do this to children. The increasing willingness to lie to children
speaks to an intellectual sickness that has been plaguing Britain for some
time now. Nick Timothy is correct when he says that only facts can cure this
sickness: the ship will stabilise, so long as we do not renege on a few of the
‘common-sense’ facts.

These lies – that sex in humans is not a binary, that transition is reversible,
that men can get pregnant – appear noble from the outside, but the pain of
truth is temporary compared to the longevity of a lie's influence.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/27/used-believe-born-wrong-body-sturgeons-trans-laws-would-have/

[Beso]

Just go sturgeon..everyone hates you

[hijaxers]

Just go sturgeon..everyone hates you

Agreed Parmy.

[user104658]

Tbh this aside I think the SNP's current absolutely massive misstep has been choosing to focus on things like this and Indy before doing anything at all to meaningfully protect people in Scotland from the worst of the CoL stuff. In fact I'd say rather than finding ways to sotrn some of it, they've allowed it to affect people badly as an attempt to bolster anti-Westminster sentiment.

They could and should have been doing more.

[Zizu]

I just don’t understand why somebody thought it was acceptable to place this ‘person’ in a women’s prison !!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230128/cc339259e7b63fd9a1b90b96ad3ad6ac.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Crimson Dynamo]

I just don’t understand why somebody thought it was acceptable to place this ‘person’ in a women’s prison !!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230128/cc339259e7b63fd9a1b90b96ad3ad6ac.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

its because the leader of the opposition cannot even say what a woman is

not because he does not know but because he is too scared of a tiny minority

fear
of
blame

is behind all of this and its powered by social media

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1619685066061520898?s=20&t=l04kOb94XmSPPOdz-KRBLw

[Cherie]

She said the rights of the 40 other women inside at the time were sacrificed for two trans convicts.

She said: “When I arrived in prison I was terrified, disorientated, ashamed and just really missing my children and worrying about not being there for them.

“When I realised I was to be housed with two men I felt total panic, it was like a wave of fear crashing over me - then I found out one was a murderer and the other someone with a history of violence against women.

“I just wanted to keep my head down but I was feeling increasingly suicidal.

“I will never forget the first time I found myself confronted with this huge man.

“He was in prison for domestic abuse against his female partner and yet here he was being allowed to intimidate women every day.

“We were told his name was Laura and that we would need to call him by that name, while the murderer was called Alex.

“I felt like if I was to misgender them it would be me who would be getting into trouble and possibly having my sentence lengthened.

“We didn’t have showers in our cells and so we had to shower in the communal shower block, so women who were traumatised and vulnerable had to be naked and shower with men in their spaces.



Nah this will never happen...you silly women with your bigoted views

Nicola Sturgeon should be locked up for a week with men pretending to be women see how she gets on

[user104658]

She said the rights of the 40 other women inside at the time were sacrificed for two trans convicts.

She said: “When I arrived in prison I was terrified, disorientated, ashamed and just really missing my children and worrying about not being there for them.

“When I realised I was to be housed with two men I felt total panic, it was like a wave of fear crashing over me - then I found out one was a murderer and the other someone with a history of violence against women.

“I just wanted to keep my head down but I was feeling increasingly suicidal.

“I will never forget the first time I found myself confronted with this huge man.

“He was in prison for domestic abuse against his female partner and yet here he was being allowed to intimidate women every day.

“We were told his name was Laura and that we would need to call him by that name, while the murderer was called Alex.

“I felt like if I was to misgender them it would be me who would be getting into trouble and possibly having my sentence lengthened.

“We didn’t have showers in our cells and so we had to shower in the communal shower block, so women who were traumatised and vulnerable had to be naked and shower with men in their spaces.



Nah this will never happen...you silly women with your bigoted views

Nicola Sturgeon should be locked up for a week with men pretending to be women see how she gets on

I saw a TikTok earlier trying to justify it all by saying that the women in prison are going to be "big, also violent women" who can hold their own so that makes it less of an issue. Infuriating. The truth is that it's far worse than pretty much anywhere else for it to be a prison!

The VAST majority of women in prisons, at least in the UK, are there on drugs charges. The vast majority of women who are involved with drugs / drug dealing have been abused and assaulted by men throughout their entire lives and many of them are in there having been violently forced into the world of drugs by an abusive male partner. The levels of trauma, especially trauma linked to men, is going to be 100x higher in a women's prison than pretty much ANYWHERE else. It is the absolute LAST place that any male-bodied person should be locked in with them... let alone male-bodied people who have a history of violence against women. It's utter madness.

[user104658]

I have to add though I do not recommend getting into debates on TikTok. Or maybe I do - it offers a glimpse into some seriously twisted and illogical mindsets.

[Cherie]

I saw a TikTok earlier trying to justify it all by saying that the women in prison are going to be "big, also violent women" who can hold their own so that makes it less of an issue. Infuriating. The truth is that it's far worse than pretty much anywhere else for it to be a prison!

The VAST majority of women in prisons, at least in the UK, are there on drugs charges. The vast majority of women who are involved with drugs / drug dealing have been abused and assaulted by men throughout their entire lives and many of them are in there having been violently forced into the world of drugs by an abusive male partner. The levels of trauma, especially trauma linked to men, is going to be 100x higher in a women's prison than pretty much ANYWHERE else. It is the absolute LAST place that any male-bodied person should be locked in with them... let alone male-bodied people who have a history of violence against women. It's utter madness.


:facepalm:

[Oliver_W]

I saw a TikTok .

:facepalm:

[Oliver_W]

If, as some theorise, Sturgeon put this through her Parliament as a "sacrificial lamb" -as she knew saner heads would prevail and block it- in order to further push for independence, she chose the worst thing to make it about. So few people would side with her in this issue, especially shen confronted with the reality of it.

Jesus Christ I referred to the UK Government as "saner heads" ...

[user104658]

:facepalm:

A sad reality of parenting is that you have to involve yourself in such things - because you can't provide proper context and protection against social contagion if you're caught on the back foot.

Any parent of a teenager who isn't ok TikTok is asleep at the wheel. I genuinely believe that.

By the time the boys at my daughter's school started coming out with Andrew Tate crap, we already had her pre-prepped with all of the info she needed about people like Tate, how he operates, what his social media followers and acolytes are all about, plus a full history of Reddit redpill and how to handle those sorts of idiots.

You have to know what you're looking at to nip it in the bud.

[user104658]

If, as some theorise, Sturgeon put this through her Parliament as a "sacrificial lamb" -as she knew saner heads would prevail and block it- in order to further push for independence, she chose the worst thing to make it about. So few people would side with her in this issue, especially shen confronted with the reality of it.

Jesus Christ I referred to the UK Government as "saner heads" ...

I think that may be partially the case but I think it's massively backfired, I think at this point Sturgeon and pretty much anyone who backed her on this will have to go if the SNP is going to maintain its current dominant lead in Scottish politics.

The unfortunate other side of this though, is that the places that ex-SNP voters would normally go (Greens or Labour) are just as bad on this stuff and realistically most voters are not going to flip to Tory. I suspect many just won't vote at all. But then again, low turnout is generally speaking a positive from the Tory perspective.

[Oliver_W]

I think that may be partially the case but I think it's massively backfired, I think at this point Sturgeon and pretty much anyone who backed her on this will have to go if the SNP is going to maintain its current dominant lead in Scottish politics.

The unfortunate other side of this though, is that the places that ex-SNP voters would normally go (Greens or Labour) are just as bad on this stuff and realistically most voters are not going to flip to Tory. I suspect many just won't vote at all. But then again, low turnout is generally speaking a positive from the Tory perspective.

You really think it could cost Sturgeon her place?! What's the general feeling toward her in Scotland? I've not heard much positivity toward her in years, but then a)I don't really care so don't seek it out b)I'm not Scottish so algos and lack of proximity limit what I'd hear anyway and c)social media is toxic.

[bots]

No, i think Sturgeon is so self righteous that she firmly believes her own bs. She thinks she is superior and unassailable in Scotland and given she has just pissed off at least 50% of her voters, maybe 80% she will have to go or the snp will be decimated. The others are bad, but labour aren't as bad as the snp, greens or lib dems, so i think there will be a general shift back to labour and conservative

[user104658]

You really think it could cost Sturgeon her place?! What's the general feeling toward her in Scotland? I've not heard much positivity toward her in years, but then a)I don't really care so don't seek it out b)I'm not Scottish so algos and lack of proximity limit what I'd hear anyway and c)social media is toxic.

I think she's lost significant ground with female voters even amongst those who have been dutifully voting yellow for the last decade+. And I don't think any of it gained her any votes at all from the flipside. I don't think she realized that it's a genuinely divisive issue - usually when they play virtue politics, the only people they're upsetting are those who are already staunch unionists (le jambon) so she's been able to do it freely to bolster support whilst not turning anyone away - those complaining were never, ever going to vote SNP. I think she thought this was the same... that it was a "usual" social justice issue and that only Tories and co would be bothered.

It's a massive error. You only need to look at this forum to see that as a microcosm, any social-justice minded person who is looking at the situation through an objective lens will have at least some concern for women's rights, women's safeguarding or at the very least respecting women's voices. The tactic has been to sweep a hand and denounce it as "bigotry!", and in fact much confusion for some who can't get their head around "people who they didn't think were bigots suddenly being bigots". Because of course... in their mind that's the only possibility. These people are bigots who have been taken in by right-wing rhetoric. Somehow. On just this issue. Despite having managed to not be taken in by "right wing rhetoric" on any other issue ... just this one.

It couldn't be that the issue is more nuanced than they'll let themselves believe ... no! To entertain that, would be bigotry...

/ rant

But yes I think Sturgeon has basically done that. Didn't know enough about it, forged ahead thinking she was only going to piss off Blues, ended up pissing off people who have wholeheartedly supported her for years.

[user104658]

No, i think Sturgeon is so self righteous that she firmly believes her own bs. She thinks she is superior and unassailable in Scotland and given she has just pissed off at least 50% of her voters, maybe 80% she will have to go or the snp will be decimated. The others are bad, but labour aren't as bad as the snp, greens or lib dems, so i think there will be a general shift back to labour and conservative

I don't think many Tories ever shifted from Tory, I think you're right but realistically I think what that ends up looking like, is vote-splitting between SNP and Labour that allows the Tories more wins without actually getting more votes.

[Niamh.]

I think she's lost significant ground with female voters even amongst those who have been dutifully voting yellow for the last decade+. And I don't think any of it gained her any votes at all from the flipside. I don't think she realized that it's a genuinely divisive issue - usually when they play virtue politics, the only people they're upsetting are those who are already staunch unionists (le jambon) so she's been able to do it freely to bolster support whilst not turning anyone away - those complaining were never, ever going to vote SNP. I think she thought this was the same... that it was a "usual" social justice issue and that only Tories and co would be bothered.

It's a massive error. You only need to look at this forum to see that as a microcosm, any social-justice minded person who is looking at the situation through an objective lens will have at least some concern for women's rights, women's safeguarding or at the very least respecting women's voices. The tactic has been to sweep a hand and denounce it as "bigotry!", and in fact much confusion for some who can't get their head around "people who they didn't think were bigots suddenly being bigots". Because of course... in their mind that's the only possibility. These people are bigots who have been taken in by right-wing rhetoric. Somehow. On just this issue. Despite having managed to not be taken in by "right wing rhetoric" on any other issue ... just this one.

It couldn't be that the issue is more nuanced than they'll let themselves believe ... no! To entertain that, would be bigotry...

/ rant

But yes I think Sturgeon has basically done that. Didn't know enough about it, forged ahead thinking she was only going to piss off Blues, ended up pissing off people who have wholeheartedly supported her for years.

Yep. Yes to ALL of that.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Violent trans criminals are women, says Nicola Sturgeon's justice secretary

Keith Brown says if prisoners present as trans 'then we accept that at face
value' - despite banning rapist Isla Bryson from female prison

https://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-ughh.gif

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/politics/2023/01/30/TELEMMGLPICT000323118178_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqA7N2Cxn JWnYI3tCbVBgu9T0aesusvN1TE7a0ddd_esI.jpeg?imwidth= 600

But he said they still did not have the right to be housed in women's prisons
and insisted the decision rested on a Scottish Prison Service (SPS) risk
assessment "with all the known facts."

He denied that his insistence that he trusted the SPS was undermined by him
banning the service from sending any more violent transgender offenders to
female prisons.

Mr Brown also said the Scottish Government would not review the Gender
Recognition Reform Bill in light of the Bryson and Scott cases to provide
more protections for women's spaces.

His ban does not cover the five trans criminals already serving their
sentences in female prisons but he said he understood that none had a
history of violence against women.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/01/30/keith-brown-nicola-stugeon-justice-secretary-trans-criminals/

[Oliver_W]

I don't think many Tories ever shifted from Tory, I think you're right but realistically I think what that ends up looking like, is vote-splitting between SNP and Labour that allows the Tories more wins without actually getting more votes.

There's not really anywhere for disenfranchised Tory supporters to shift to, assuming they still hold all their same views but don't like the party in its current form; contrary to the beliefs of some, the differences between Labour and the Tories are greater than those between Labour and Green/LibDem/Etc.

Again this is coming from the distorted viewpoint of an Englander, if the cost of living crisis is hitting Scotland especially hard, then the last things they'll be worrying about is imminent independence and trans stuff.

[user104658]

Again this is coming from the distorted viewpoint of an Englander, if the cost of living crisis is hitting Scotland especially hard, then the last things they'll be worrying about is imminent independence and trans stuff.

I agree and that's what makes it all so bizarre - all the SNP had to do to continue sweeping elections was offer up some CoL crisis cushioning... even relatively small, if they offered meaningful support beyond what Westminster has mustered up, it would (rightly) have been a vote winner. Instead they've been distracted by other things, and also, I suspect tried to come at it from the other angle (things WOULD be better if we were independent, Westminster doesn't care about you, look how hard things are etc.)

Again I think that's a total blunder. All it really looks like in the end is "Westminster has ****ed us over but oh well we're not going to help either, we're going to have a 4 hour debate about prisons instead".

[Crimson Dynamo]

A sad reality of parenting is that you have to involve yourself in such things - because you can't provide proper context and protection against social contagion if you're caught on the back foot.

Any parent of a teenager who isn't ok TikTok is asleep at the wheel. I genuinely believe that.

By the time the boys at my daughter's school started coming out with Andrew Tate crap, we already had her pre-prepped with all of the info she needed about people like Tate, how he operates, what his social media followers and acolytes are all about, plus a full history of Reddit redpill and how to handle those sorts of idiots.

You have to know what you're looking at to nip it in the bud.

Agreed

plus i get sent tons to look at from my three and they covertly check to make sure iv watched them:joker:

[GoldHeart]

Thats the BBC for ya ~ turned into unwatchable news years ago.

This is sadly true

[Niamh.]

https://twitter.com/PeterAdamSmith/status/1620051699900755970?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 30, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://twitter.com/PeterAdamSmith/status/1620051699900755970?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 30, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Hoisted by her own petard

[Oliver_W]

Jesus that's some good questioning.

[bots]

Jesus that's some good questioning.

it's not really, she was asked 2 very simple questions and basically refused to answer them :laugh:

[user104658]

https://twitter.com/PeterAdamSmith/status/1620051699900755970?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 30, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Tied in knots because of the linguistic dogma... it's ironically made it impossible to mount a convincing argument for ANY trans person.

"Trans women are women"
"Would any non-trans women be in a male prison?"
"No"
"But some trans women would be depending on circumstances?"
"Yes"
"So there's a difference between women and trans women?"
"No. Trans women are women."
"But only trans women, not other women, might sometimes be housed in male prisons."
"Correct."
"...why is that?"
"....:oh: ..."


The answer doesn't even have to be that trans identities aren't valid, or shouldn't be respected, or that they are men or male. All there needs to be is an acknowledgement that trans women and biological women are fundamentally different things. Which is quite clear to anyone being half way sensible.

THEN you can start to discuss the best solutions to all of the issues.

But I swear it all comes down to not wanting to give any ground "to the enemy". Nicola Sturgeon knows that trans women and biological women are not the same thing. It's all over her face. She's put herself in a position where she CANNOT say it, or she will be branded a heretic.

[GoldHeart]

This was always going to be a slippery slope sadly, and we've now got to the stage where people are too scared to even describe 'what a woman is' :bored: .

[Beso]

Sturgeons an idiot.

[Beso]

Speaking to Lewis Goodall of Global’s News Agents podcast, Sturgeon said:

‘There are people who have opposed this bill that cloak themselves in women’s rights to make it acceptable. But just as they’re transphobic you’ll also find they are deeply misogynist, often homophobic, possibly some of them racist as well.’

[Niamh.]

Speaking to Lewis Goodall of Global’s News Agents podcast, Sturgeon said:

‘There are people who have opposed this bill that cloak themselves in women’s rights to make it acceptable. But just as they’re transphobic you’ll also find they are deeply misogynist, often homophobic, possibly some of them racist as well.’

"cloak themselves in women's rights" because no one could actually care about rapists being sent to prison with women, no no no, it's obvious they just hate trans people and probably black people and gay people too......... makes sense

[user104658]

Speaking to Lewis Goodall of Global’s News Agents podcast, Sturgeon said:

‘There are people who have opposed this bill that cloak themselves in women’s rights to make it acceptable. But just as they’re transphobic you’ll also find they are deeply misogynist, often homophobic, possibly some of them racist as well.’

What worries me THE MOST about this statement is that those are not her words from her own deduction - I've heard those words before, we all have, we hear them constantly. These are prescribed, copy-paste, groupthinky words. I 100% genuinely respect well thought out differences of opinions and opposing viewpoints but this generic stuff, I just can't stand it at the best of times, and when it's coming out of the mouthes of people in power it's even worse.

[GoldHeart]

"cloak themselves in women's rights" because no one could actually care about rapists being sent to prison with women, no no no, it's obvious they just hate trans people and probably black people and gay people too......... makes sense

We've gone so far the other way...that common sense has well and truly left the building. Today on Jeremy Vine ,they were still calling this rapist a "she" :facepalm: .