Keir Starmer backs ban on transgender athletes in female competition

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/sport/2024/03/11/TELEMMGLPICT000369731464_17101609414470_trans_NvBQ zQNjv4BqkSTqpuOG35n0vTJ8hHjCs0xLt_VH4ihIxU_CLntGzr Q.jpeg?imwidth=500

Sir Keir Starmer has backed the banning of transgender women from women’s
sport – after previously refusing to do so publicly.

The Labour leader said he was “supportive” of moves to protect the female
category of sporting competitions and that “common sense has to prevail in
terms of safety and integrity of sport”.

“I think the important thing is that the sports governing bodies take a lead on
this. And they are doing that, and we’re supportive of what they’re doing,
particularly in elite sport. So, that’s where the decision should be taken.
They’ve taken a number of decisions. And, in the end, common sense has to
prevail in terms of safety and integrity of sport.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/sport/2024/03/11/TELEMMGLPICT000289917166_17101610765980_trans_NvBQ zQNjv4BqNLFz2QTH6RCwPE4UPA-sBf4Xpit_DMGvdp2n7FDd82k.jpeg?imwidth=500

Last year, one of Thomas’s rivals, Legend campaigner Riley Gaines, claimed she and others had
not been “forewarned beforehand that we would be sharing a locker room
with Lia” at events.

“We did not give our consent; they did not ask for our consent,” Gaines told
Fox News. “In that locker room, we turned around and there’s a 6ft 4in
biological man dropping his pants and watching us undress, and we were
exposed to male genitalia.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2024/03/11/keir-starmer-backs-ban-on-transgender-female-competition/

[Cherie]

The expression on the woman who came 3rd sums up many women's thoughts on transwomen in womens sports

[Mystic Mock]

I don't intend to be spiteful when I say this, but it had to be done.

A lot of these women Sports are really young, and the fact that biological women were disadvantaged at winning their own events because biological men were taking part against them, is imo bad for women's Sports, and deeply unfair to the female athletes.

Hopefully the Trans competitors will get placed where they're able to compete more evenly against each other in Sports, because I don't want them to be unable to participate entirely, just don't have them compete against the women.

And speaking for myself, I did feel uncomfortable at Boxing/Martial Arts events having biological males beating up women in matches, call me old fashioned or Transphobic all you want, but that never really sat well with me.

Good luck to the Trans participants in Sports in the future, but hopefully where I can actually enjoy their presence in the Sport, rather than having negative feelings about their presence within Sport.

I hope people understand what I'm trying to say, as I know I can come across as harsh when it comes to topics like this, but I really am trying to articulate this the best of my ability.

[Crimson Dynamo]

that picture sums up the whole sorry business..

[Cherie]

I don't intend to be spiteful when I say this, but it had to be done.

A lot of these women Sports are really young, and the fact that biological women were disadvantaged at winning their own events because biological men were taking part against them, is imo bad for women's Sports, and deeply unfair to the female athletes.

Hopefully the Trans competitors will get placed where they're able to compete more evenly against each other in Sports, because I don't want them to be unable to participate entirely, just don't have them compete against the women.

And speaking for myself, I did feel uncomfortable at Boxing/Martial Arts events having biological males beating up women in matches, call me old fashioned or Transphobic all you want, but that never really sat well with me.

Good luck to the Trans participants in Sports in the future, but hopefully where I can actually enjoy their presence in the Sport, rather than having negative feelings about their presence within Sport.

I hope people understand what I'm trying to say, as I know I can come across as harsh when it comes to topics like this, but I really am trying to articulate this the best of my ability.


Unfortunately Mock you will be called transphobic for those views, but I think the tide is turning and there is more nuanced discussion around the whole topic, in some ways I think it had to happen....i.e transwomen participating n womens sports to show how unfair it is to women, I read a stat somewhere that there were 50 transwomen competing in a womens road race think it was in Mexico, if there are that many then they can easily have their own category to compete, just like disability sports, and no I am not saying being a transwoman is a disability, what I am saying is disabled people have their own category so they are not disdvantaged by able bodied sports people, so there is no reason for transmen and transwomen not to have their own categories so they can compete against each other though I am not sure there are that many transmen in elite sport

[Niamh.]

Has the penny finally dropped that in fact most people disagree with this and stuff like this could lose them elections? I seriously doubt it's because he's suddenly concerned for women's safety and fairness in sport

[Mystic Mock]

Unfortunately Mock you will be called transphobic for those views, but I think the tide is turning and there is more nuanced discussion around the whole topic, in some ways I think it had to happen....i.e transwomen participating n womens sports to show how unfair it is to women, I read a stat somewhere that there were 50 transwomen competing in a womens road race think it was in Mexico, if there are that many then they can easily have their own category to compete, just like disability sports, and no I am not saying being a transwoman is a disability, what I am saying is disabled people have their own category so they are not disdvantaged by able bodied sports people, so there is no reason for transmen and transwomen not to have their own categories so they can compete against each other though I am not sure there are that many transmen in elite sport

I agree with what you're saying tbh.

And like you, I'm not sure about how many Transmen are involved in Sport currently, but hopefully there would be enough for them to have their own division of competition.

[Gusto Brunt]

That's just taking the p*&$.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/sport/2024/03/11/TELEMMGLPICT000289917166_17101610765980_trans_NvBQ zQNjv4BqNLFz2QTH6RCwPE4UPA-sBf4Xpit_DMGvdp2n7FDd82k.jpeg?imwidth=500

[Cherie]

Has the penny finally dropped that in fact most people disagree with this and stuff like this could lose them elections? I seriously doubt it's because he's suddenly concerned for women's safety and fairness in sport

oh for sure it is a vote grab, I couldn't vote Labour because of their unwavering stance on including transwomen everywhere to the detriment of women, not sure I believe him, and don't think I will be voting for him

[user104658]

Has the penny finally dropped that in fact most people disagree with this and stuff like this could lose them elections? I seriously doubt it's because he's suddenly concerned for women's safety and fairness in sport

It has (in part) tanked a lot of the SNP's support in Scotland. It's not even about being supportive of trans people or otherwise... it's the refusal to have a good faith debate/conversation on the topic that's doing the damage. When it comes up it's the same old "Stonewall inspired" techniques at play which is essentially the idea that you just refuse the debate (that the debate in itself is -phobic) and forge ahead. It's not a stance that sits well with people these days.

Basically people just want their concerns to be taken seriously and, when changes are made to things like policy, to be reassured that the work has actually been done instead of this turgid attitude of "it's offensive for you to say work would need to be done!".

[Niamh.]

It has (in part) tanked a lot of the SNP's support in Scotland. It's not even about being supportive of trans people or otherwise... it's the refusal to have a good faith debate/conversation on the topic that's doing the damage. When it comes up it's the same old "Stonewall inspired" techniques at play which is essentially the idea that you just refuse the debate (that the debate in itself is -phobic) and forge ahead. It's not a stance that sits well with people these days.

Basically people just want their concerns to be taken seriously and, when changes are made to things like policy, to be reassured that the work has actually been done instead of this turgid attitude of "it's offensive for you to say work would need to be done!".

Yep absolutely and this is an issue in Ireland atm too. The government here just lost a referendum suggesting 2 changes to our continuation for the same reasons, poo pooing peoples concerns as conservative or far right. people are sick to death of it. This is a prime example of the attitudes of those in power and their attitudes towards the people of the country below (this is about the proposed new hate speech bill in Ireland

https://twitter.com/griptmedia/status/1654113707004239872?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 4, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[user104658]

"We'll poll the public to find out what they think :smug: "
"We don't like it"
"Well we don't believe you go away!!"

Democracy seems to be a very fragile concept at the moment, what with Sunak also insisting that the public has "done voting wrong" recently.

[Niamh.]

"We'll poll the public to find out what they think :smug: "
"We don't like it"
"Well we don't believe you go away!!"

Democracy seems to be a very fragile concept at the moment, what with Sunak also insisting that the public has "done voting wrong" recently.

very very fragile, it's happening like this almost everywhere it seems

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yep absolutely and this is an issue in Ireland atm too. The government here just lost a referendum suggesting 2 changes to our continuation for the same reasons, poo pooing peoples concerns as conservative or far right. people are sick to death of it. This is a prime example of the attitudes of those in power and their attitudes towards the people of the country below (this is about the proposed new hate speech bill in Ireland

https://twitter.com/griptmedia/status/1654113707004239872?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 4, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

we do public consultations as its a good way to find out what the public are thinking but we are wise to the fact that they don't represent the voting public and most people don't think that way..



how can that creep say that with a straight face?

[Niamh.]

we do public consultations as its a good way to find out what the public are thinking but we are wise to the fact that they don't represent the voting public and most people don't think that way..



how can that creep say that with a straight face?

If you watch the video again and watch the guy behind him you can almost see him thinking wtf? :laugh:

[user104658]

To be fair I can appreciate that open surveys can be skewed by responder bias that's a pretty basic principle of social research, but that's why you conduct RANDOM opinion surveys in the first place, so that you get a broad spectrum of general viewpoints and not one group organising to affect the poll. There are clear and established ways to minimise the effect of responder bias. So if they're choosing not to, that's when you need to ask questions.

[Niamh.]

To be fair I can appreciate that open surveys can be skewed by responder bias that's a pretty basic principle of social research, but that's why you conduct RANDOM opinion surveys in the first place, so that you get a broad spectrum of general viewpoints and not one group organising to affect the poll. There are clear and established ways to minimise the effect of responder bias. So if they're choosing not to, that's when you need to ask questions.

It's so clear though that people do not want this hate speech bill and I reckon that referendum that the government just lost, a lot of No voters were trying to send a **** you message to the government through that, it was the biggest percentage any government ever lost a referendum in the our History, its certainly sent them a message imo

[user104658]

Irs so clear though that people do not want this hate speech bill and I reckon that referendum that the government just lost, a lot of No voters were trying to send a **** you message to the government through that, it was the biggest percentage any government ever lost a referendum in the our History, its certainly sent them a message imo

The irony is that with them choosing to make it an open polling and not randomised, I think they incorrectly thought that the opposite would happen - i.e. that big enough organised groups in support of the bill would skew it in their favour. Large organisations and governments are constantly, at the moment, making the classic mistake of assuming that the loudest voices (especially on social media) are the greatest in number.

[Liam-]

Kissing the feet of the worst kinds of people as usual

[Niamh.]

Kissing the feet of the worst kinds of people as usual

Those damn female athletes, the WORST!

[Liam-]

Nah, bigots that enjoy punishing trans people

[user104658]

Those damn female athletes, the WORST!

They're not even flat out banning it they're saying it needs to be left to the sport's governing bodies. Maybe it's them that are "the worst people".

[Niamh.]

Nah, bigots that enjoy punishing trans people

Oh the "bigots" of course, how could I forget :laugh:

They're not even flat out banning it they're saying it needs to be left to the sport's governing bodies. Maybe it's them that are "the worst people".

That must be it

[user104658]

Nah, bigots that enjoy punishing trans people

Punishing them by not mandating access to an unfair advantage in competitive sports? Again, all they're saying is it has to be left to the professional bodies who are responsible for upholding fair competition in these sports.

For example, they DID allow it in swimming, until the work was done and they concluded that there was a clear, distinct advantage for biologically male trans women over natal females in swimming competitions. They did the research. They discovered that it's an unfair competitive advantage. No number of dining table scientists with zero qualifications talking speculative rot about the effect of hormone therapy and chanting "no it isn't, transphobe!!" is going to change the simple facts.

[user104658]

Oh the "bigots" of course, how could I forget :laugh:

It's not even that I'm going to deny they exist, there are plenty of bigots gleefully piggybacking on the issue, we all know who they are, but at the end of the day that's largely irrelevant background noise when considering the actual issue. Public opinion one way or the other doesn't come into any of this. Safety, safeguarding and professional competitive standards are the ONLY considerations that people in charge should be concerning themselves with.

[Niamh.]

Punishing them by not mandating access to an unfair advantage in competitive sports? Again, all they're saying is it has to be left to the professional bodies who are responsible for upholding fair competition in these sports.

For example, they DID allow it in swimming, until the work was done and they concluded that there was a clear, distinct advantage for biologically male trans women over natal females in swimming competitions. They did the research. They discovered that it's an unfair competitive advantage. No number of dining table scientists with zero qualifications talking speculative rot about the effect of hormone therapy and chanting "no it isn't, transphobe!!" is going to change the simple facts.

Research is transphobic :nono: In all seriousness though it's ludicrous they even had to let it go to that and to actually punish all those female swimmers who had to swim against Lia Thomas for as long as they did in the meantime, anyone with eyes could have told you that Lia had biological advantages brought on by male puberty over the female athletes

It's not even that I'm going to deny they exist, there are plenty of bigots gleefully piggybacking on the issue, we all know who they are, but at the end of the day that's largely irrelevant background noise when considering the actual issue. Public opinion one way or the other doesn't come into any of this. Safety, safeguarding and professional competitive standards are the ONLY considerations that people in charge should be concerning themselves with.

Of course as there is on every topic. What bothers me about the bigot chants on this particular topic though is it's quite clearly a strong women's rights issue here and it's the women who are being punished and who are being told shut up and move over if they dare try to speak up for themselves. Like I said above, it's a disgrace that had even gotten to the place it had.

[bots]

Equality and anti discrimination, as concepts, just don't work when they are allowed to flourish without limitation. The reason being it provides a pathway to legitimacy for complete and utter nutters who are hell bent on destroying everything that is stable, balanced and right around us.

Yes, we can all have the best of intentions to improve the lives of the down trodden and exploited, but when the concepts of equality and anti discrimination are are left to flourish unchecked we get chaos.

People may jump up and down and complain at that notion, but we are seeing a glimpse of what a world based on those simple constructs will lead us

This is why everyone looks around and says ..... wtf? .... because we just cant understand why such noble goals have led us to where the world is now

[Cherie]

Nah, bigots that enjoy punishing trans people

yeah those young girls who get up at 5am every morning to swim and train before school for years, get the times to qualify for the world championships or the Olympics or some other competition and are then beaten by women born as men who have been through puberty so who by biology are stronger , they should just suck that up as **** happens .....as you would if it were happening to you.... call us what you like, women will always resist this injustice

[Beso]

Have a trans Olympics, something for meghan to promote.

[Mystic Mock]

Nah, bigots that enjoy punishing trans people

I agree with you Liam that there will be a fair few people that will love taking the rights away from Transpeople, I would be lying if I said otherwise.

However, I don't believe that biological women should be punished in their own Sports when they've done nothing wrong, which is what's currently happening by having them take on Transwomen, who are biologically male.

Unfortunately Sports have to operate on a form of Science, rather than on emotion.

Like take Boxing for example, you can't have a Heavyweight take on a Bantamweight, without the Bantamweight bulking up to be closer to the Heavyweight's size, because at their current size, it wouldn't be safe for the Bantamweight to fight a Heavyweight. Just like it isn't safe for women to take on Transwomen at physical competitions like what Sports are.

[Cherie]

I agree with you Liam that there will be a fair few people that will love taking the rights away from Transpeople, I would be lying if I said otherwise.

However, I don't believe that biological women should be punished in their own Sports when they've done nothing wrong, which is what's currently happening by having them take on Transwomen, who are biologically male.

Unfortunately Sports have to operate on a form of Science, rather than on emotion.

Like take Boxing for example, you can't have a Heavyweight take on a Bantamweight, without the Bantamweight bulking up to be closer to the Heavyweight's size, because at their current size, it wouldn't be safe for the Bantamweight to fight a Heavyweight. Just like it isn't safe for women to take on Transwomen at physical competitions like what Sports are.

He wont respond to this, as there is no logical response to support his view, which is everyone BIGOT

[Mystic Mock]

He wont respond to this, as there is no logical response to support his view, which is everyone BIGOT

I think Liam will have more to say than that.

He is very passionate on the topic, which is a good thing.

[Cherie]

I think Liam will have more to say than that.


Prepared to be proved wrong Mock

[Beso]

Darts..they can do that. Look at luke littler, hes really a teenage girl thats been on pubic blockers.

Only his boobs dont add up with his name and the blockers claim.

[Mystic Mock]

Prepared to be proved wrong Mock

Tbf, he isn't obligated to reply.

I just hope that he can at least understand my stance on the topic.

[Cherie]

Tbf, he isn't obligated to reply.

I just hope that he can at least understand my stance on the topic.

well he should reply as he calls anyone who doesn't agree with him a bigot? he should be able to explain his stance, if not then he is just a troll imo
why should you feel you have to bend to his point of view when you have articulated your viewpoint intelligently ....now it is over to him