[Crimson Dynamo]

Sir Keir Starmer has backed the banning of transgender women from women’s
sport – after previously refusing to do so publicly.

The Labour leader said he was “supportive” of moves to protect the female
category of sporting competitions and that “common sense has to prevail in
terms of safety and integrity of sport”.

“I think the important thing is that the sports governing bodies take a lead on
this. And they are doing that, and we’re supportive of what they’re doing,
particularly in elite sport. So, that’s where the decision should be taken.
They’ve taken a number of decisions. And, in the end, common sense has to
prevail in terms of safety and integrity of sport.”



Last year, one of Thomas’s rivals, Legend campaigner Riley Gaines, claimed she and others had
not been “forewarned beforehand that we would be sharing a locker room
with Lia” at events.

“We did not give our consent; they did not ask for our consent,” Gaines told
Fox News. “In that locker room, we turned around and there’s a 6ft 4in
biological man dropping his pants and watching us undress, and we were
exposed to male genitalia.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/20...e-competition/

[Cherie]

The expression on the woman who came 3rd sums up many women's thoughts on transwomen in womens sports

[Mystic Mock]

I don't intend to be spiteful when I say this, but it had to be done.

A lot of these women Sports are really young, and the fact that biological women were disadvantaged at winning their own events because biological men were taking part against them, is imo bad for women's Sports, and deeply unfair to the female athletes.

Hopefully the Trans competitors will get placed where they're able to compete more evenly against each other in Sports, because I don't want them to be unable to participate entirely, just don't have them compete against the women.

And speaking for myself, I did feel uncomfortable at Boxing/Martial Arts events having biological males beating up women in matches, call me old fashioned or Transphobic all you want, but that never really sat well with me.

Good luck to the Trans participants in Sports in the future, but hopefully where I can actually enjoy their presence in the Sport, rather than having negative feelings about their presence within Sport.

I hope people understand what I'm trying to say, as I know I can come across as harsh when it comes to topics like this, but I really am trying to articulate this the best of my ability.

[Crimson Dynamo]

that picture sums up the whole sorry business..

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

I don't intend to be spiteful when I say this, but it had to be done.

A lot of these women Sports are really young, and the fact that biological women were disadvantaged at winning their own events because biological men were taking part against them, is imo bad for women's Sports, and deeply unfair to the female athletes.

Hopefully the Trans competitors will get placed where they're able to compete more evenly against each other in Sports, because I don't want them to be unable to participate entirely, just don't have them compete against the women.

And speaking for myself, I did feel uncomfortable at Boxing/Martial Arts events having biological males beating up women in matches, call me old fashioned or Transphobic all you want, but that never really sat well with me.

Good luck to the Trans participants in Sports in the future, but hopefully where I can actually enjoy their presence in the Sport, rather than having negative feelings about their presence within Sport.

I hope people understand what I'm trying to say, as I know I can come across as harsh when it comes to topics like this, but I really am trying to articulate this the best of my ability.

Unfortunately Mock you will be called transphobic for those views, but I think the tide is turning and there is more nuanced discussion around the whole topic, in some ways I think it had to happen....i.e transwomen participating n womens sports to show how unfair it is to women, I read a stat somewhere that there were 50 transwomen competing in a womens road race think it was in Mexico, if there are that many then they can easily have their own category to compete, just like disability sports, and no I am not saying being a transwoman is a disability, what I am saying is disabled people have their own category so they are not disdvantaged by able bodied sports people, so there is no reason for transmen and transwomen not to have their own categories so they can compete against each other though I am not sure there are that many transmen in elite sport

[Niamh.]

Has the penny finally dropped that in fact most people disagree with this and stuff like this could lose them elections? I seriously doubt it's because he's suddenly concerned for women's safety and fairness in sport

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Unfortunately Mock you will be called transphobic for those views, but I think the tide is turning and there is more nuanced discussion around the whole topic, in some ways I think it had to happen....i.e transwomen participating n womens sports to show how unfair it is to women, I read a stat somewhere that there were 50 transwomen competing in a womens road race think it was in Mexico, if there are that many then they can easily have their own category to compete, just like disability sports, and no I am not saying being a transwoman is a disability, what I am saying is disabled people have their own category so they are not disdvantaged by able bodied sports people, so there is no reason for transmen and transwomen not to have their own categories so they can compete against each other though I am not sure there are that many transmen in elite sport

I agree with what you're saying tbh.

And like you, I'm not sure about how many Transmen are involved in Sport currently, but hopefully there would be enough for them to have their own division of competition.

[Gusto Brunt]

That's just taking the p*&$.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Has the penny finally dropped that in fact most people disagree with this and stuff like this could lose them elections? I seriously doubt it's because he's suddenly concerned for women's safety and fairness in sport

oh for sure it is a vote grab, I couldn't vote Labour because of their unwavering stance on including transwomen everywhere to the detriment of women, not sure I believe him, and don't think I will be voting for him

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Has the penny finally dropped that in fact most people disagree with this and stuff like this could lose them elections? I seriously doubt it's because he's suddenly concerned for women's safety and fairness in sport

It has (in part) tanked a lot of the SNP's support in Scotland. It's not even about being supportive of trans people or otherwise... it's the refusal to have a good faith debate/conversation on the topic that's doing the damage. When it comes up it's the same old "Stonewall inspired" techniques at play which is essentially the idea that you just refuse the debate (that the debate in itself is -phobic) and forge ahead. It's not a stance that sits well with people these days.

Basically people just want their concerns to be taken seriously and, when changes are made to things like policy, to be reassured that the work has actually been done instead of this turgid attitude of "it's offensive for you to say work would need to be done!".

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

It has (in part) tanked a lot of the SNP's support in Scotland. It's not even about being supportive of trans people or otherwise... it's the refusal to have a good faith debate/conversation on the topic that's doing the damage. When it comes up it's the same old "Stonewall inspired" techniques at play which is essentially the idea that you just refuse the debate (that the debate in itself is -phobic) and forge ahead. It's not a stance that sits well with people these days.

Basically people just want their concerns to be taken seriously and, when changes are made to things like policy, to be reassured that the work has actually been done instead of this turgid attitude of "it's offensive for you to say work would need to be done!".

Yep absolutely and this is an issue in Ireland atm too. The government here just lost a referendum suggesting 2 changes to our continuation for the same reasons, poo pooing peoples concerns as conservative or far right. people are sick to death of it. This is a prime example of the attitudes of those in power and their attitudes towards the people of the country below (this is about the proposed new hate speech bill in Ireland

[user104658]

"We'll poll the public to find out what they think "
"We don't like it"
"Well we don't believe you go away!!"

Democracy seems to be a very fragile concept at the moment, what with Sunak also insisting that the public has "done voting wrong" recently.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

"We'll poll the public to find out what they think "
"We don't like it"
"Well we don't believe you go away!!"

Democracy seems to be a very fragile concept at the moment, what with Sunak also insisting that the public has "done voting wrong" recently.

very very fragile, it's happening like this almost everywhere it seems

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yep absolutely and this is an issue in Ireland atm too. The government here just lost a referendum suggesting 2 changes to our continuation for the same reasons, poo pooing peoples concerns as conservative or far right. people are sick to death of it. This is a prime example of the attitudes of those in power and their attitudes towards the people of the country below (this is about the proposed new hate speech bill in Ireland

Twitter Link

we do public consultations as its a good way to find out what the public are thinking but we are wise to the fact that they don't represent the voting public and most people don't think that way..



how can that creep say that with a straight face?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

we do public consultations as its a good way to find out what the public are thinking but we are wise to the fact that they don't represent the voting public and most people don't think that way..



how can that creep say that with a straight face?

If you watch the video again and watch the guy behind him you can almost see him thinking wtf?

[user104658]

To be fair I can appreciate that open surveys can be skewed by responder bias that's a pretty basic principle of social research, but that's why you conduct RANDOM opinion surveys in the first place, so that you get a broad spectrum of general viewpoints and not one group organising to affect the poll. There are clear and established ways to minimise the effect of responder bias. So if they're choosing not to, that's when you need to ask questions.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

To be fair I can appreciate that open surveys can be skewed by responder bias that's a pretty basic principle of social research, but that's why you conduct RANDOM opinion surveys in the first place, so that you get a broad spectrum of general viewpoints and not one group organising to affect the poll. There are clear and established ways to minimise the effect of responder bias. So if they're choosing not to, that's when you need to ask questions.

It's so clear though that people do not want this hate speech bill and I reckon that referendum that the government just lost, a lot of No voters were trying to send a **** you message to the government through that, it was the biggest percentage any government ever lost a referendum in the our History, its certainly sent them a message imo

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Irs so clear though that people do not want this hate speech bill and I reckon that referendum that the government just lost, a lot of No voters were trying to send a **** you message to the government through that, it was the biggest percentage any government ever lost a referendum in the our History, its certainly sent them a message imo

The irony is that with them choosing to make it an open polling and not randomised, I think they incorrectly thought that the opposite would happen - i.e. that big enough organised groups in support of the bill would skew it in their favour. Large organisations and governments are constantly, at the moment, making the classic mistake of assuming that the loudest voices (especially on social media) are the greatest in number.

[Liam-]

Kissing the feet of the worst kinds of people as usual

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Kissing the feet of the worst kinds of people as usual

Those damn female athletes, the WORST!

[Liam-]

Nah, bigots that enjoy punishing trans people

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Those damn female athletes, the WORST!

They're not even flat out banning it they're saying it needs to be left to the sport's governing bodies. Maybe it's them that are "the worst people".

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Nah, bigots that enjoy punishing trans people

Oh the "bigots" of course, how could I forget

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy

They're not even flat out banning it they're saying it needs to be left to the sport's governing bodies. Maybe it's them that are "the worst people".

That must be it

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Nah, bigots that enjoy punishing trans people

Punishing them by not mandating access to an unfair advantage in competitive sports? Again, all they're saying is it has to be left to the professional bodies who are responsible for upholding fair competition in these sports.

For example, they DID allow it in swimming, until the work was done and they concluded that there was a clear, distinct advantage for biologically male trans women over natal females in swimming competitions. They did the research. They discovered that it's an unfair competitive advantage. No number of dining table scientists with zero qualifications talking speculative rot about the effect of hormone therapy and chanting "no it isn't, transphobe!!" is going to change the simple facts.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Oh the "bigots" of course, how could I forget

It's not even that I'm going to deny they exist, there are plenty of bigots gleefully piggybacking on the issue, we all know who they are, but at the end of the day that's largely irrelevant background noise when considering the actual issue. Public opinion one way or the other doesn't come into any of this. Safety, safeguarding and professional competitive standards are the ONLY considerations that people in charge should be concerning themselves with.