Ali attempting to apply the patriarchal pyramid to the house

[vesavius]

I have never heard such bullshit as she was spouting tonight.

This fever dream of a hierarchal pyramid of power within the house is based on... What? What actual power do the lads have that the others don't? She is really claiming that the house has a patriarchy running it?

As if that house is at all run by a 'patriarchy' Who are the women are the 'most attractive' who are propping this supposed 'patriarchy' up? Hanah? Good grief.

And her pretending that she is powerless and at the bottom of her imaginary pyramid... But oh so brave for calling the def evil patriarchy out despite that of course. She's an absolute freedom fighter and she needs a medal. Probably a Victoria Cross.

Seriously, it was such a stream of utter half baked pseudo intellectual nonsense that is worthy of a 13 year old Tumblr feminist from 2016.

I was embarrassed for her and I was embarrassed that Dean sat there mindlessly nodding.

It was simply all clearly a manipulative attempt to other the lads from the rest of the house and isolate them as a group. To try and set up the idea and seemingly lead the rest of the house in some kind of 'alliance of the oppressed' against them.

[rusticgal]

Embarrassing…and the gormless Dean..Martha and Lily think she is so knowledgable and falling for her tripe.

[Liam-]

She was right actually

[Barry.]

She was right actually

You understood what she was saying?

[jones89]

I have never heard such bullshit as she was spouting tonight.

This fever dream of a hierarchal pyramid of power within the house is based on... What? What actual power do the lads have that the others don't? She is really claiming that the house has a patriarchy running it?

As if that house is at all run by a 'patriarchy' Who are the women are the 'most attractive' who are propping this supposed 'patriarchy' up? Hanah? Good grief.

And her pretending that she is powerless and at the bottom of her imaginary pyramid... But oh so brave for calling the def evil patriarchy out despite that of course. She's an absolute freedom fighter and she needs a medal. Probably a Victoria Cross.

Seriously, it was such a stream of utter half baked pseudo intellectual nonsense that is worthy of a 13 year old Tumblr feminist from 2016.

I was embarrassed for her and I was embarrassed that Dean sat there mindlessly nodding.

It was simply all clearly a manipulative attempt to other the lads from the rest of the house and isolate them as a group. To try and set up the idea and seemingly lead the rest of the house in some kind of 'alliance of the oppressed' against them.

Ikr! No wonder she’s so lifeless all the time, she has to be exhausted from all that over analyzing tbh.. i see it simply as people that get on with eachother hanging out with eachother and not others that they don’t get on with as well.. it really doesn’t have to be any more complicated than that.. but leave it to Ali i supose

[Mystic Mock]

Ali has spent too much time on Twitter.:laugh:

And I say that as someone that likes Twitter.

[Abra]

Yeah she talks utter bullshit :joker:

[Ammi]

https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExdzJ4cW93ajdzOHl0anBxcGxqcjA3d3N sNjVod3VobmU4anMzM3JmdiZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/l0IylOPCNkiqOgMyA/giphy.gif

[Niamh.]

It's stupid, she's really trying to push the idea that she's a victim of oppression in there. She isn't

[Beso]

I felt like nominating her for the bb contribution thread.

[vesavius]

She was right actually

How so?

[vesavius]

It's stupid, she's really trying to push the idea that she's a victim of oppression in there. She isn't

I saw this on Reddit after I posted this and thought that it's interesting that even other 4th wave intersectional feminist types are calling her out...

"Ali is a well educated, relatively privileged, conventionally attractive white woman who does hold a lot of power in the house simply in her ability to articulate herself. she is obviously not afraid of speaking her mind either and has gained respect from other members of the house such as Lily.

It’s actually tone deaf and quite offensive for her to disregard the impact of other aspects of intersectionality and it doesn’t make her look smart or analytical for coming up with a “hierarchy” instead it looks like she watched “barbie” and called it a day. pleaseeee."

[Mystic Mock]

It's stupid, she's really trying to push the idea that she's a victim of oppression in there. She isn't

She is ginger though.

The great Eric Cartman off South Park does teach in one of his passages that "gingers have no souls."

And what he says must be true.:hehe:

[vesavius]

She is ginger though.


:joker::joker:

[Ammi]

…:laugh:…’she is ginger though’….Martha is that you…?…

[thesheriff443]

It's stupid, she's really trying to push the idea that she's a victim of oppression in there. She isn't

It was another attempt to get dean on board as a foot soldier
Three main targets dean then those that support the three main targets

Basically saying to dean they have no use for you

[ebandit]

and i thought......................i don't understand 'cos i'm not as bright as ali.................

Mark L

[thesheriff443]

…:laugh:…’she is ginger though’….Martha is that you…?…

Ginger witch would have been funnier but Ali wants to be known as the red witch

[Niamh.]

Ginger witch would have been funnier but Ali wants to be known as the red witchRed witch is a Game of Thrones reference though

[Oliver_W]

It was just a load of BS. I wonder how much of it she believed herself tbh.

She's almost like the "NPC" meme, and someone fed a bunch of Tumblr nonsense into an AI generator and asked it to write literal gibberish about the housemates.

AND I want to fish-slap anyone who unironically calls themselves or others "queer."

[thesheriff443]

Red witch is a Game of Thrones reference though

I’ve not watched that.

[vesavius]

https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExdzJ4cW93ajdzOHl0anBxcGxqcjA3d3N sNjVod3VobmU4anMzM3JmdiZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/l0IylOPCNkiqOgMyA/giphy.gif

:joker::joker:

[Katmieow]

For a psychologist she speaks utter inane psychobabble.

[Zizu]

For a psychologist she speaks utter inane psychobabble.


Welcome to the forum


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Tizmee]

I don’t understand why none of the other HG’s have pulled Ali up on her verbal diarrhoea!

They don’t need to have an ‘ology to see how she’s trying to manipulate them into nominating (and despising) others her way!

[vesavius]

Embarrassing…and the gormless Dean..Martha and Lily think she is so knowledgable and falling for her tripe.

This illusion of intelligence she has, apparently based on staying calm and having a nice accent, is a real thing.

The more that I hear her speak the more I think she is actually quite dense.

She has a sub 6th formers understanding of everything she talks about. She even openly admits that she is not aware of the actual meaning of the performative protest tee shirts that she wears. It's indeed embarrassing.

[Crimson Dynamo]

She is the typical dead-eyed goon on a pro-hamas rally holding a Socialist Worker Placard
wearing an "all illegal migrants welcome" tea shirt whilst having just paid £100 to renew her passport...

:skull:

[Niamh.]

I’ve not watched that.

https://images.app.goo.gl/BH1Df29G5QxRRXwS9

[rusticgal]

This illusion of intelligence she has, apparently based on staying calm and having a nice accent, is a real thing.

The more that I hear her speak the more I think she is actually quite dense.

She has a sub 6th formers understanding of everything she talks about. She even openly admits that she is not aware of the actual meaning of the performative protest tee shirts that she wears. It's indeed embarrassing.


You have hit the nail on the head...she looks like she knows what she is talking about...she sounds like she is intelligent but she actually talks complete rubbish and calls out others for behaviour that she does all the time.

Dean, Martha and Lily are too thick to realise. She can only fool the foolish.

This is why she feels threatened by Khalid because he is quite astute and plays her at her own game. She was initially close to Nathan but she is wary of him because he is not afraid to call her out like he did last night.

[Tizmee]

I must’ve missed something…

How did Nathan pull Ali up last night?

[rusticgal]

I must’ve missed something…

How did Nathan pull Ali up last night?


It was not major...it was when they were discussing Martha's dress sense and Nathan wasn't agreeing with Ali's opinion and told her to **** off before shutting the smoking room door.

[GoldHeart]

Embarrassing…and the gormless Dean..Martha and Lily think she is so knowledgable and falling for her tripe.

This has really annoyed me,why is she making it about the " straight blokes" against " the Queer people", the fact she's putting Nathan with her group is hilarious... considering he can't stand Martha,her fellow close friend:joker:.

Dean is her lapdog, he was just nodding along,he can't think for himself.

Ali is obsessed with the game, yet keeps calling others the ' fake ones' .

[rusticgal]

This has really annoyed me,why is she making it about the " straight blokes" against " the Queer people", the fact she's putting Nathan with her group is hilarious... considering he can't stand Martha,her fellow close friend:joker:.

Dean is her lapdog, he was just nodding along,he can't think for himself.

Ali is obsessed with the game, yet keeps calling others the ' fake ones' .


I mean it is a game...but she can't play her game without people like Dean, Martha and Lily who do not have a brain cell between them.
This is why she hates Khalid and Marcello...because they are actually smart and call her out.

[GoldHeart]

I mean it is a game...but she can't play her game without people like Dean, Martha and Lily who do not have a brain cell between them.
This is why she hates Khalid and Marcello...because they are actually smart and call her out.

True it is a game .

I just don't like how she's using gender & sexuality as a main reason for this ' pyramid divide' , she started the issue with Khaled in the first place...and she's clashed with Marcello. None of the " straight lads" had a problem with her ... until she started her paranoia and psycho analysis BS .

It's interesting she's forgotten about Thomas, I guess she doesn't mind him too much .

[rusticgal]

True it is a game .

I just don't like how she's using gender & sexuality as a main reason for this ' pyramid divide' , she started the issue with Khaled in the first place...and she's clashed with Marcello. None of the " straight lads" had a problem with her ... until she started her paranoia and psycho analysis BS .

It's interesting she's forgotten about Thomas, I guess she doesn't mind him too much .

I mean she also talks all the time as though Khalid started the whole fall out off...when she was the one who started everything by calling him fake...she is deluded and as I have always said she will twist everything to suit her agenda.
When she gets called out for it she walks off.
She is just playing the victim using the Gender and Sexuality issue...and of course Dean will see himself as a victim too...

[Zizu]

I mean she also talks all the time as though Khalid started the whole fall out off...when she was the one who started everything by calling him fake...she is deluded and as I have always said she will twist everything to suit her agenda.
When she gets called out for it she walks off.
She is just playing the victim using the Gender and Sexuality issue...and of course Dean will see himself as a victim too...


Maybe she’s simply playing a game

Maybe she’s just a complex character

Either way she isn’t a BAD person


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Kazanne]

Maybe she’s simply playing a game

Maybe she’s just a complex character

Either way she isn’t a BAD person


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I doubt any of them are bad people,

[vesavius]

Maybe she’s simply playing a game

Maybe she’s just a complex character

Either way she isn’t a BAD person

Well, she isn't a 'bad person' if we accept only the two possibles that you present as being the only ones.

Which isn't the case.

[caprimint]

The way it was actually accurate tho :skull:

[Crimson Dynamo]

I doubt any of them are bad people,

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRBaFmJioy368VidN2YqjS4-3EfxUepcOFxARNrYj2rx_ZfnZPVoPr3ytEiPZb5JnatauA&usqp=CAU

[vesavius]

The way it was actually accurate tho :skull:

:joker::joker::joker:

[Zizu]

I doubt any of them are bad people,


Just you and me then …

Ali is hated in this forum


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[GoldHeart]

The way it was actually accurate tho :skull:

The delulu is strong ...but ok .

[Beso]

I mean she said all that, then the camera pans into the living room and you have marcello sitting there with his mouth half open, kahled topless, bouncing something off his head, segun doing the worm on the floor, and Tom,just Tom.

Do you think!!

[joeysteele]

I have to admit I didn't see it as Ali was presenting her own observations.
However I'm not in the house 24 hours a day like she is.

She's obviously intelligent and maybe does try at times too much to analyse everything.

A lot of what she was describing got lost with me I'm afraid but then she sees it all being in the house all this time so far.

I can't believe at all that Dean really understood it all either.

However I've liked Ali from the start and still do.
I agree with Khaled that she is really interesting.
Plus positively or negatively Ali will be one of the most talked about housemates this series.

[GoldHeart]

I mean she said all that, then the camera pans into the living room and you have marcello sitting there with his mouth half open, kahled, topless bouncing something of his head, segun doing the worm on the floor, and Tom, just Tom.

Do you think!!

She's forgotten Thomas is straight, or she just doesn't feel threatened by him:conf:.... she's going on about " The straight boys" but forgot to acknowledge him ad he's quiet I guess, but you would think she'd stick point out he's part of this ' hierarchy ' in her delulu mind anyway .

If we go down the Ali rabbit hole theory...then that
means Martha is on her team with Nathan,but again her
theory is a complete contradiction anyway, as Nathan detests Martha ...and he spends his days moaning about her ,as he chases BP around the house like a lanky beanpole.


She's right about Dean as he has no mind of his own ,and will nod to everything she says. Which is funny... considering Dean actually got on with the lads ,he was all " yeah bro " with them , now suddenly he thinks the boys are running the house and trying to get Ali out.

[GoldGlitter]

She was 100% correct. That why jocks get away with so much in American schools. While boys who are considered too feminine and gay languish at the bottom of the hierarchy. 3/4 who face homophobic bullying are straight Columbine shooters are perfect examples of this were bullied for years. Students accounted how they were harshly bullied, including being called homophobic insults and a and respond to that attack in their masculinity with violence. That's why there is so many mass shootings.

[Maru]

She is entitled to her woo but it's certainly not anything close to Psychology. It's the type of woo for people who like to pontificate in front of groups and it's those people who are most attracted to it, ie those who most love hearing themselves speak and being praised for it. It is meant to appeal to the most neurotic of people. So of course this appeals to Ali, because she attaches herself to those individuals as a rule, and thus creates the authority in which she apparently craves. She throws these things out there because she's looking to hook herself a susceptible audience.

Like any fundamentalist religion, the point of professing a caste system or placing people in self-confining boxes that involve some kind of scoring system, is funny enough to take advantage of those sore points since the system claims it will address. It can't really as it only just aims to to divide population(s) by design, which further perpetuates the narrative… it's not meant to solve problems, just find more of them... By suggesting to oneself for example that that person is already a slave to something, for example, that person has made themselves much easier to emotionally farm, thus easier to be gamed by that system. It's actually very easy to craft a victim narrative from basically anything... much harder to resolve any real issues and tackle deep rooted issues in ourselves objectively (much less identify things objectively externally and fix them), regardless of apparent narratives... anyone who says there's a system that gains every person who follows that thinking unique insight into the actual cogs and workings of all individuals on the planet is running a scam.

[vesavius]

She was 100% correct. That why jocks get away with so much in American schools. While boys who are considered too feminine and gay languish at the bottom of the hierarchy. 3/4 who face homophobic bullying are straight Columbine shooters are perfect examples of this were bullied for years. Students accounted how they were harshly bullied, including being called homophobic insults and a and respond to that attack in their masculinity with violence. That's why there is so many mass shootings.

Even if I did accept your takes here as true, or even close to true, how does that apply to the house at ALL?

She was talking specifically about the house, not US high schools.

[vesavius]

She is entitled to her woo but it's certainly not anything close to Psychology. It's the type of woo for people who like to pontificate in front of groups and it's those people who are most attracted to it, ie those who most love hearing themselves speak and being praised for it. It is meant to appeal to the most neurotic of people. So of course this appeals to Ali, because she attaches herself to those individuals as a rule, and thus creates the authority in which she apparently craves. She throws these things out there because she's looking to hook herself a susceptible audience.

Like any fundamentalist religion, the point of professing a caste system or placing people in self-confining boxes that involve some kind of scoring system, is funny enough to take advantage of those sore points since the system claims it will address. It can't really as it only just aims to to divide population(s) by design, which further perpetuates the narrative… it's not meant to solve problems, just find more of them... By suggesting to oneself for example that that person is already a slave to something, for example, that person has made themselves much easier to emotionally farm, thus easier to be gamed by that system. It's actually very easy to craft a victim narrative from basically anything... much harder to resolve any real issues and tackle deep rooted issues in ourselves objectively (much less identify things objectively externally and fix them), regardless of apparent narratives... anyone who says there's a system that gains every person who follows that thinking unique insight into the actual cogs and workings of all individuals on the planet is running a scam.

Yes.

[GoldGlitter]

Even if I did accept your takes here as true, or even close to true, how does that apply to the house at ALL?

She was talking specifically about the house, not US high schools.

That gang of boisterous boys are the jocks of the house. Women like Hanah who follows a religion who expect her to be servants for men have to adopt the same hypermasculine values. That's why she's constantly try's to show her power and dominance. By acting tough and intimidating others.

[vesavius]

That gang of boisterous boys are the jocks of the house.

I don't agree with the statement, but tell me what power these immigrants and working class lads of colour have that Ali doesn't have? I need someone that agrees with her to tell me how they are in any way above her in a 'hierarchy'. In what way is this educated well spoken middle class professional white woman on the bottom of it?


Women like Hanah who follows a religion who expect her to be servants for men have to adopt the same hypermasculine values That's why she's constantly try's to show her power and dominance. By acting tough and intimidating others.

You do know that you can use the word 'Muslim', right? You have a used a lot of extra words there to seemingly avoid doing so.

But, she is servile and that's why she is 'tough and intimidating'? That doesn't make much sense. Can you expand on it so that I understand?

[Mystic Mock]

…:laugh:…’she is ginger though’….Martha is that you…?…

You've got me.:laugh:

It's giving Psychic Sally vibes.

[Mystic Mock]

It was not major...it was when they were discussing Martha's dress sense and Nathan wasn't agreeing with Ali's opinion and told her to **** off before shutting the smoking room door.

I feel like Nathan came across really bad in that exchange imo.

Martha hasn't done anything to warrant her dress sense being attacked I feel.

[Mystic Mock]

Just you and me then …

Ali is hated in this forum


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I don't hate Ali either.

And there are a few other members who have her as their favourite.

[GoldHeart]

You've got me.:laugh:

It's giving Psychic Sally vibes.

Yeah I don't get why Martha was making out Ginger & Red is different, when red gets used alot to describe ginger. Plus 'Ginger witch ' doesn't have the same ring to it .

Ali secretly loves the drama of ' red witch ', she's milking this storyline for the rest of the BB series it seems for the whole duration .

so god help us all to keep listening to it...so I guess we'll have to keep hearing her repeat over & over again " wolf "
& " I'm the red witch" tee hee . She won't let it drop ... it's beyond boring ,even when goblin got into bed with her she said " come here little wolf" :notimpressed: .

[Mystic Mock]

Yeah I don't get why Martha was making out Ginger & Red is different, when red gets used alot to describe ginger. Plus 'Ginger witch ' doesn't have the same ring to it .

Ali secretly loves the drama of ' red witch ', she's milking this storyline for the rest of the BB series it seems for the whole duration .

so god help us all to keep listening to it...so I guess we'll have to keep hearing her repeat over & over again " wolf "
& " I'm the red witch" tee hee . She won't let it drop ... it's beyond boring ,even when goblin got into bed with her she said " come here little wolf" :notimpressed: .

Tbf to Ali, I do think that is her way of trying to take it in good spirits.

She just has a strange personality though, and she admittedly does love to cause drama normally, so it's hard to tell when she's having a laugh.

[GoldHeart]

Tbf to Ali, I do think that is her way of trying to take it in good spirits.

She just has a strange personality though, and she admittedly does love to cause drama normally, so it's hard to tell when she's having a laugh.

She keeps bringing it up ,which suggests to me she cannot move on . So whether it's tongue in cheek or not , she will probably be printing off t shirts that say ' Red Witch ' with her face plastered on it ,when she actually leaves BB .....she's going to try and make money off this saga .

[Cherie]

I don't agree with the statement, but tell me what power these immigrants and working class lads of colour have that Ali doesn't have? I need someone that agrees with her to tell me how they are in any way above her in a 'hierarchy'. In what way is this educated well spoken middle class professional white woman on the bottom of it?




You do know that you can use the word 'Muslim', right? You have a used a lot of extra words there to seemingly avoid doing so.

But, she is servile and that's why she is 'tough and intimidating'? That doesn't make much sense. Can you expand on it so that I understand?


Hilarious isn't it, sometimes I think the social experiment is more about the viewer than the HM, a white middle class woman is at the bottom of the pyramid ....lol ...normally she would be called a Karen, lucky for her she is a lesbian so some would appear to have taken to their hearts at the expense of the black woman they would usually be championing irl...give me strength

oh and and an aside anyone who didnt champion the black woman would be a racist.... mmmm how does that work then

[Mystic Mock]

She keeps bringing it up ,which suggests to me she cannot move on . So whether it's tongue in cheek or not , she will probably be printing off t shirts that say ' Red Witch ' with her face plastered on it ,when she actually leaves BB .....she's going to try and make money off this saga .

Tbf, I would recommend her to try and make money off being the Red Witch.

[ebandit]

Just you and me then …

Ali is hated in this forum


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


so ali pretty much made up this 'theory' based upon her own agenda

like making up that ali is hated here............check week 4 favourites voting ali
is still the forums favourite.....................

but also the forums least liked...........by a greater margin?

Mark L

[vesavius]

Hilarious isn't it, sometimes I think the social experiment is more about the viewer than the HM, a white middle class woman is at the bottom of the pyramid

It is!

I think that it's less of an experiment on the public than a fact that the leftist idea of the progressive stack intersectional hierarchy of patriarchy bullshit collapses under the lightest of outside scrutiny.

Notice how not one who has agreed with Ali has been able to say WHY she was correct and when asked direct questions have just melted away.

[Zizu]

Notice how not one who has agreed with Ali has been able to say WHY she was correct and when asked direct questions have just melted away.


Interesting claim !!

Presumably you have countless examples of this to share with us ..


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[BBXX]

I hope this post doesn't offend anyone but I do think people are getting a bit confused between societal privilege and what Ali was talking about which is societal power and I do think that the power (i.e: the influence) a person holds is far more closely measured by your sex than any other aspect of your upbringing or culture and as a result, I do think sexuality also has an influence in this.

For example, I am a middle class white gay man. In the totem pole of societal privilege I would have certain privileges that I benefit from because I am both a man and white. However, in the totem pole of societal power, I believe I would be ranked below straight men of all classes, nationalities and creeds because society, in general, sees gay men as 'lesser men' and therefore they hold 'less power', despite my whiteness and despite my social class that benefit me in other ways outside of influence. I think society sees gay men the same way they see straight women, and I think society sees gay women as even less powerful and I think that's what Ali would getting at.

Of course people may disagree with my assessment too and I'd be open to being told otherwise because I am sure people have many different experiences that clash with what I have said and so I'd be open to hearing them, as I am calling it from a not-particularly-sheltered-but-still-probably-quite-naive viewpoint.

[vesavius]

I hope this post doesn't offend anyone but I do think people are getting a bit confused between societal privilege and what Ali was talking about which is societal power and I do think that the power (i.e: the influence) a person holds is far more closely measured by your sex than any other aspect of your upbringing or culture

For example, I am a middle class white gay man. In the totem pole of societal privilege I would have certain privileges that I benefit from because I am both a man and white.

I see zero evidence of this in 2024 Britain. Can you give examples where white men have more power or influence or privilege in UK society? I mean, the last Tory leader was an Indian man, and the next seems likely to be a black woman.

However, in the totem pole of societal power, I believe I would be ranked below straight men of all classes, nationalities and creeds because society, in general, sees gay men as 'lesser men'

Again, I see zero evidence of this. Indeed, I would say gay men are elevated above straight men in general, especially in the UK media/ Arts (which they more or less run). This is not the world of Quentin Crisp anymore and people need to stop pretending it is.

The truth is that there is no 'totem pole'. A man is not held back by his sexual preference at all in 2024. In fact, in the UK no immutable characteristic is a barrier. I feel people invent the idea that there is out of some kind of need for victimhood. The only thing that matters in the UK is wealth... The wealth to enable opportunity, good connections, and the wealth to buy a good education and nice accent for your children. When you have those nothing else matters.

But what Ali was saying in the house there is a hierarchy of power. She wasn't talking about wider society. She was stating that the lads were above her in that house and that she was on the bottom of a pyramid of patriarchy as the 'plucky freedom fighter', even as she sits on the HoH bed.

I am asking for someone that agrees with her on that to say why that's true and show me where the 3 lads have any more power than her and her little gang.

[MTVN]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRBaFmJioy368VidN2YqjS4-3EfxUepcOFxARNrYj2rx_ZfnZPVoPr3ytEiPZb5JnatauA&usqp=CAU

:joker:

[BBXX]

I see zero evidence of this in 2024 Britain. Can you give examples where white men have more power or influence or privilege in UK society? I mean, the last Tory leader was an Indian man, and the next seems likely to be a black woman.

It's a bit like when people say the USA don't haver a race issue because Obama was president. I don't think white men specifically have more power, but I do think white people benefit from wider systemic privileges than most, particularly immigrants for example.

While from a law and rights perspective everyone is equal (quite rightly so) do you really believe everyone in society is seen as equal? Sounds amazing, but also sounds like a fantasy land. There are many people out there that will have issues with specific demographics and that will impact the influence that demographic has.


Again, I see zero evidence of this. Indeed, I would say gay men are elevated above straight men in general, especially in the UK media (which they more or less run). This is not the world of Quentin Crisp anymore and people need to stop pretending it is.


I think it's pretty rude to call someone's experience 'pretending'. Your example are a false equivalence really, a bit like the comment above about having leaders who are not white.

Why have you chosen UK media as your example of where gay men have more power than straight men (I would still question this). Why not the British Army? Why not the Football Association? I myself work in an industry that is 99% male, 99% straight and extremely old fashioned in its viewpoints when it comes to both women and gay men.

While I am not suggesting blatant homophobia is rife in the UK (though there were over 22k cases of LGBT hate crime in 2023/4) I do think it's pretty naive to suggest that someone's sexuality isn't a barrier and people don't make judgements and decisions subliminally.

I feel people invent the idea that there is out of some kind of need for victimhood.

Cool.


But what Ali was saying in the house there is a hierarchy of power. She wasn't talking about wider society. She was stating that the lads were above her in that house and that she was on the bottom of a pyramid of patriarchy as the 'plucky freedom fighter', even as she sits on the HoH bed.


The house is a tiny microcosm of society, of course.

[vesavius]

Neither of those were voted into power by the public, of course.

Why does that matter? We are discussing who holds the visible power in the UK.

but I do think white people benefit from wider systemic privileges than most, particularly immigrants for example.

Again, examples? Kemmy Badenoch is an immigrant.

While from a law and rights perspective everyone is equal (quite rightly so) do you really believe everyone in society is seen as equal?

Yes, if they are wealthy, as I stated above.

Wealth and all it enables and brings is the determiner, nothing else.


Why have you chosen UK media as your example of where gay men have more power than straight men

Because the media and arts are key to controlling societal power and have massive influence.

While I am not suggesting blatant homophobia is rife in the UK (though there were over 22k cases of LGBT hate crime in 2023/4) I do think it's pretty naive to suggest that someone's sexuality isn't a barrier and people don't make judgements and decisions subliminally.

Who committed those 'hate crimes' and what were they? Also, I wonder how many would have been recorded against straight white men if that was even allowed. The prejudiced and bigoted **** I hear the LGBT community say about straight white people is beyond wild.

The fact that openly hating on one group is a crime and openly hating on another isn't should clarify things a little for you in itself as to holds the real privilege in the UK in 2024. You can make disparaging comments on my immutable characteristics all day long, but if I wanted (I don't) to do the same to you I would be prosecuted.

The house is a tiny microcosm of society, of course.

No it isn't, many established rules of society are suspended and reorganised in that house. You still haven't shown me where the 3 lads have any more power than Ali and her gang in that house.

Look, can I ask going forward that we stick to the house in this discussion? I wasn't originally talking about wider society, I was only specifically talking about the house and Ali's place in it. I have heard your views and answered them and I think we have heard and understood each other enough to move on.

[BBXX]

Why does that matter? We are discussing who holds the visible power in the UK.

Again, examples? Kemmy Badenoch is an immigrant.

I am speaking generally, there will always be exceptions to the rule. I guess sexism doesn't exist either because Margaret Thatcher was once in charge.

Immigrants and nationals of POC probably felt super powerful and influential earlier this year during the literal riots and random attacks on members of the public who weren't white.


Because the media and arts are key to controlling societal power and have massive influence.


I wouldn't say arts are key to controlling societal power in the slightest and while they have a higher concentration of LGBT people I don't think that means it's "ruled" by particularly but I digress.

Who committed those 'hate crimes' and what were they?

Is that a serious question?

Also, I wonder how many would have been recorded against straight white men if that was even allowed. The prejudiced and bigoted **** I hear the LGBT community say about straight white people is beyond wild.

So you've heard **** said against white straight people it's prejudiced and bigoted, but when you hear from a gay man that sexuality can often be an issue and a barrier it's "victimhood" and "pretending".

If you're willing to accept that white straight people can be victim to prejudicial behaviour, then it stands to reason the same can apply to LGBT+ people and POC and if you don't think that prejudice manifests in decision making that negatively impacts someones success and acts as a barrier, then I am not sure what to say.

And it's with that comment I will end my participation in this conversation.

[vesavius]

I am speaking generally, there will always be exceptions to the rule. I guess sexism doesn't exist either because Margaret Thatcher was once in charge.

Sex or gender doesn't matter in the UK and is not a barrier to advancement.

A wealthy well educated well connected woman with a good accent is capable of everything an equivelent man is.


Immigrants and nationals of POC probably felt super powerful and influential earlier this year during the literal riots and random attacks on members of the public who weren't white.


No one on either side of those riots had any real power, nor did those that rioted in Harehills, and what went on is a deep and nuanced conversation where both sides did really **** things. Neither of those riots have anything to do with the point I am making though.

Wealthy people, including wealthy immigrants, don't riot. Wealth, or lack of it, is the continuing key element.

Look, I am sorry that you couldn't just agree to keep it to the house and the HMs and answer the very clear question that I asked. But, ok.

[Gusto Brunt]

I have never heard such bullshit as she was spouting tonight.
...

She's always spouting bs. I've been saying it was over a week. The woman is a complete bore and talks the biggest bollax known to man.

Get ehr out.:fist:

[GoldHeart]

When Ali leaves the BB house ,she should set up a company called ' Red witch pyramid scheme ' .

[rusticgal]

She's always spouting bs. I've been saying it was over a week. The woman is a complete bore and talks the biggest bollax known to man.

Get ehr out.:fist:


I could not agree more..

[BBXX]

Look, I am sorry that you couldn't just agree to keep it to the house and the HMs and answer the very clear question that I asked. But, ok.

I didn't actually see you asking me to stick to the house in your reply before this one, so sorry for that. (Maybe you added it while I was replying, as I am sure I didn't see it originally?)

But also, I just shared my feelings generally, I wasn't talking to you specifically so if you didn't like me using real world scenarios to give context to what I thought Ali meant you should have just not replied. :conf:

[vesavius]

I just shared my feelings generally, I wasn't talking to you specifically so if you didn't like me using real world scenarios to give context to what I thought Ali meant you should have just not replied. :conf:

Your real world examples had nothing to do with Ali's actions and def didn't give them 'context', as I explained. It seems to me more that you couldn't answer the very clear question about the house and Ali within it and just waffled on about other stuff in order to shift the conversation.

But, ok dude, whatever :joker:

[GoldHeart]

Ali reminds me of Chanel from last year , both of them like to repeat the same rubbish over and over again. They also keep going around the bush before they make a point,and even then it's still not coherent nor factual:bored:.

[vesavius]

Ali reminds me of Chanel from last year , both of them like to repeat the same rubbish over and over again. They also keep going around the bush before they make a point,and even then it's still not coherent nor factual:bored:.

:laugh::laugh:

[Zizu]

Ali reminds me of Chanel from last year , both of them like to repeat the same rubbish over and over again. They also keep going around the bush before they make a point,and even then it's still not coherent nor factual:bored:.


Are you confusing Ali with Lily ??


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[Jordan.]

Remember how offended she was on Hanah's behalf when she got labelled aggressive and now she's the one labelling her as a bully

[GoldHeart]

Remember how offended she was on Hanah's behalf when she got labelled aggressive and now she's the one labelling her as a bully

Which is why Ali is full of BS , and always has been.

[vesavius]

Remember how offended she was on Hanah's behalf when she got labelled aggressive and now she's the one labelling her as a bully

Ali has zero intellectual or moral consistency.

[GoldHeart]

Ali has zero intellectual or moral consistency.

And the worst thing is she can't see her own hypocrisy. She was quick to label Hanah a 'bully' despite feeling offended on her behalf weeks ago ,over ' aggressive gate ' . Ali & Martha have similar traits...in acting like they have people's best interests at heart, when actually they are causing more harm & distress .

Even when Ali was talking to Khaled after the whole
" fake" accusation in the hallway, Martha felt the need to interrupt to see if Ali is " ok" ... like a ' cape and hero moment ' .

[optimisticcynic]

As a forensic psychologist she literally has a captive audience and faces minimal day to day challenge of her misguided analysis. You’re not meant to poison the well with your own bias but it seems she has absolutely no hesitation to do this, as she is emotionally invested in the hierarchy of oppression. I absolutely love that whilst being a 38yr old Consultant Forensic Psychologist, blessed in the context of western beauty standards, and likely in a comfortable economic bracket, she views herself as being oppressed in comparison to a 20yr old male of Palestinian origin in the UK who has already mentioned that he would have come on the show if they hadn’t been able to evacuate his grandmother from a warzone the week before.
Ali is a dangerous dangerous person as people listen to her assuming she’s flunking psychic.
Lily is a phenomenal actress playing a well-rehearsed role of the simpleton that the nation wishes to embrace because if we can embrace her breach of every societal expectation of an adult, then there is hope for us all.

[Niamh.]

As a forensic psychologist she literally has a captive audience and faces minimal day to day challenge of her misguided analysis. You’re not meant to poison the well with your own bias but it seems she has absolutely no hesitation to do this, as she is emotionally invested in the hierarchy of oppression. I absolutely love that whilst being a 38yr old Consultant Forensic Psychologist, blessed in the context of western beauty standards, and likely in a comfortable economic bracket, she views herself as being oppressed in comparison to a 20yr old male of Palestinian origin in the UK who has already mentioned that he would have come on the show if they hadn’t been able to evacuate his grandmother from a warzone the week before.
Ali is a dangerous dangerous person as people listen to her assuming she’s flunking psychic.
Lily is a phenomenal actress playing a well-rehearsed role of the simpleton that the nation wishes to embrace because if we can embrace her breach of every societal expectation of an adult, then there is hope for us all.

This is a very good point actually. Considering Ali made her position known by wearing that t shirt as well you would think she'd have had a lot of interest in Khaled and his background and in spending sometime in speaking to him but instead she almost instantly took a dislike to him and told everyone he was fake. Almost as if her political stances and activism are more about being in that "group" rather than really being interested in the causes themselves

[Garfie]

Yeah I don't get why Martha was making out Ginger & Red is different, when red gets used alot to describe ginger. Plus 'Ginger witch ' doesn't have the same ring to it .

Ali secretly loves the drama of ' red witch ', she's milking this storyline for the rest of the BB series it seems for the whole duration .

so god help us all to keep listening to it...so I guess we'll have to keep hearing her repeat over & over again " wolf "
& " I'm the red witch" tee hee . She won't let it drop ... it's beyond boring ,even when goblin got into bed with her she said " come here little wolf" :notimpressed: .

‘Goblin’ :laugh:

[Garfie]

I don't agree with the statement, but tell me what power these immigrants and working class lads of colour have that Ali doesn't have? I need someone that agrees with her to tell me how they are in any way above her in a 'hierarchy'. In what way is this educated well spoken middle class professional white woman on the bottom of it?




You do know that you can use the word 'Muslim', right? You have a used a lot of extra words there to seemingly avoid doing so.

But, she is servile and that's why she is 'tough and intimidating'? That doesn't make much sense. Can you expand on it so that I understand?

:clap1:

[Zizu]

Ali secretly LOVES the drama of ' red witch ', she's milking this storyline for the rest of the BB series it seems for the whole duration .

: .


It’s incredible how you can know Ali’s innermost thoughts and feelings ..

Such a wonderful gift …


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[Cherie]

This is a very good point actually. Considering Ali made her position known by wearing that t shirt as well you would think she'd have had a lot of interest in Khaled and his background and in spending sometime in speaking to him but instead she almost instantly took a dislike to him and told everyone he was fake. Almost as if her political stances and activism are more about being in that "group" rather than really being interested in the causes themselves

I am sure that is the case for a lot of people who support these causes, its fashionable rather than any particular interest, I would have thought she would be very interested in Khaled and his family but it seems Lily is far more so

[Cherie]

It’s incredible how you can know Ali’s innermost thoughts and feelings ..

Such a wonderful gift …


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I know you are not watching Zizu but she brings it up regularly and even her gf mentioned it in the phone call

[Zizu]

I know you are not watching Zizu but she brings it up regularly and even her gf mentioned it in the phone call


So Ali has said she loves the drama ?


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[GoldHeart]

Wow can't believe i'm saying this but Ali actually had a nice moment with Hanah ... when she confided in her. There's strategic game play going on though, now Ali is saying to her group "lets look after Hanah" .

[Ammi]

…in all seriousness, people aren’t evil, though…(…well, except for people who are evil… )…but those aren’t generally the personality type who are on BB…like all of the housemates and like human beings, Ali is a blend …and she’s shown not so good traits but she’s also shown those good ones at times…

[Cherie]

So Ali has said she loves the drama ?


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er she applied for BB so I would imagine she does :laugh:

[BBXX]

I do think Ali's "we need to look after her" was innocent - it sounded suspect because she said "if she's leaning away from the boys she needs somewhere to fall" and I think all she meant was -- we don't want her to be isolated. I don't think Ali trusts Hanah properly, and I think the feeling is mutual, but I don't think Ali wants someone who was emotional for feeling isolated and lonely to feel even worse.

Her moment with Hanah was lovely.

[FromBB8]

I do think Ali's "we need to look after her" was innocent - it sounded suspect because she said "if she's leaning away from the boys she needs somewhere to fall" and I think all she meant was -- we don't want her to be isolated. I don't think Ali trusts Hanah properly, and I think the feeling is mutual, but I don't think Ali wants someone who was emotional for feeling isolated and lonely to feel even worse.

Her moment with Hanah was lovely.

What I don't like is a lack of context though. Is Hanah starting to move away from the boys and, if so why? The last we saw still seemed quite close. So much is missed when it comes to house dynamics. Sorry to bring it up but especially without live feed.

[Ammi]

I do think Ali's "we need to look after her" was innocent - it sounded suspect because she said "if she's leaning away from the boys she needs somewhere to fall" and I think all she meant was -- we don't want her to be isolated. I don't think Ali trusts Hanah properly, and I think the feeling is mutual, but I don't think Ali wants someone who was emotional for feeling isolated and lonely to feel even worse.

Her moment with Hanah was lovely.

…yeah, I agree..there are two groups and divides, the housemates have no doubt about that and Hanah has been firmly with her bredrin, she’s been vocal about that….so Ali seeing her feeling so shaky and vulnerable and feeling a bit lost etc…and maybe not feeling support from her her ‘bredrin’ so much…? I think it was just a comment to say…we need to keep an eye and look after her…for me, when Ali shows more softer and caring sides, which she obviously has…?…I’ll just see it for wat it is and what her actions are in that moment…which was sweet and caring…

[Niamh.]

What I don't like is a lack of context though. Is Hanah starting to move away from the boys and, if so why? The last we saw still seemed quite close. So much is missed when it comes to house dynamics. Sorry to bring it up but especially without live feed.I don't think she is, I think Ali misunderstood her, she was upset she hadn't jellied with any of the women, that doesn't mean she doesn't like the men she's friends with anymore

[Ammi]

…it was a moment for Hanah is all, I feel…and in that moment she said how much she missed her girls and that female thing…?..and in that moment, maybe she didn’t feel that she had her closest female connection, Sarah…and felt lost and low…as a female myself, I know sometimes I just want that female comfort and in that moment, she was feeling hurt at Sarah not saving her…I think it all had layers but I also think that it was just a moment…

[Niamh.]

…it was a moment for Hanah is all, I feel…and in that moment she said how much she missed her girls and that female thing…?..and in that moment, maybe she didn’t feel that she had her closest female connection, Sarah…and felt lost and low…as a female myself, I know sometimes I just want that female comfort and in that moment, she was feeling hurt at Sarah not saving her…I think it all had layers but I also think that it was just a moment…Yeah exactly, could have been some wishful thinking on Alis part too I think

[Vanessa]

I have to say, she's growing on me. She's definitely showing her more caring side and I'm all for it.

[vesavius]

I have to say, she's growing on me. She's definitely showing her more caring side and I'm all for it.

Nothing she has done has been caring. Everything has been self serving.

Trying to groom Hanah away from the lads, for example, is not 'caring' about Hanah... It's just getting another nom to support her, or at least to not be on her.

Ali saw weakness and exploited it.

[BBXX]

Imagine going through life seeing the worst in people you don't know. Talk about exhausting.

[BBXX]

I don't think she is, I think Ali misunderstood her, she was upset she hadn't jellied with any of the women, that doesn't mean she doesn't like the men she's friends with anymore

I agree with this, I think Ali misunderstood, too.

[FromBB8]

Imagine going through life seeing the worst in people you don't know. Talk about exhausting.

Isn't that reality TV all over? Live in the now, and live at the extreme. Once it's over, interest will die and so will the bile.

The issue for me, with Ali, is she hasn't got much credit in the bank. Everything she does is going to be looked through the prism of how she acted previously, even if she is now finding her place in the house and coming from a place of genuine concern.

[vesavius]

Imagine going through life seeing the worst in people you don't know. Talk about exhausting.

I don't automatically see the worst in people and i am positive about a lot of people, my wide range of posts here support that, I simply recognise the plays and behaviours in Ali.

Ali has groomed and manipulated her way through this entire series. It's who she is.

Imagine attempting to smear the speaker rather than talk about the point being made. This seems to be a really common thing in Ali fans.

[BBXX]

Imagine attempting to smear the speaker rather than talk about the point being made. This seems to be a really common thing in Ali fans.

Because the dislike against Ali from many is relentless, and unforgiving based on individual interpretation and It just comes across vindictive. Even my least favourites I balance out with their good points and so when they do have nice moments I take things at face value, because I appreciate we're not seeing a full picture of who that person is.

Fair enough if others don't want to do that, but I personally find that negative and cruel and don't mind saying it.

[vesavius]

Because the dislike against Ali from many is relentless, and unforgiving based on individual interpretation and It just comes across vindictive... I personally find that negative and cruel and don't mind saying it.

Just because you fail to see the truth in Ali's actions there is no need to try and label others in such extreme ways that do.

I forgive when change is made and forgiveness is earned. Ali continues to be a cynical self-serving manipulator.

Anyhow, I consider attacking other forum members and making personal comments to be petty and cheap so I won't fall into that trap here and have a personal slanging match with you. I don't think that proves or changes anything to do with Ali. I am here to the best that I can just to debate HMs and their actions, not try and make moral judgements on others in the forum for having different takes.

[BBXX]

Anyhow, I consider attacking other forum members and making personal comments to be petty and cheap so I won't fall into that trap here and have a personal slanging match with you. I don't think that proves or changes anything to do with Ali. I am here to the best that I can just to debate HMs and their actions, not try and make moral judgements on others in the forum for having different takes.

That's fair enough and I apologise for doing so. But have you considered that saying people are "fooled" by her and have "failed to see the truth" is it's own form of judgement on person's intellect, rather than morals?

It also frames your interpretation and opinion as factual while anyone who disagrees as false which is not how opinions work while also being somewhat undermining.

[vesavius]

saying people are "fooled" by her and have "failed to see the truth" is it's own form of judgement on person's intellect, rather than morals?

Intelligent people are fooled and misled everyday. In fact, in life often the more intelligent a person is the easier they are to fool because they are so sure of their own superiority.

Me saying that some are fooled by her of course is in no way a moral judgement.

But, you are still trying super hard to make this about me rather than the points I make about Ali.

[BBXX]

Okay.

Just to add, I didn't say it was a moral judgement I said it was a judgement on someone's intellect.

It seems we both have issues with how the other one posts so I won't converse with you moving forward.

[Beso]

Okay.

Just to add, I didn't say it was a moral judgement I said it was a judgement on someone's intellect.

It seems we both have issues with how the other one posts so I won't converse with you moving forward.




That's a very Ali thing to say.

[vesavius]

It seems we both have issues with how the other one posts so I won't converse with you moving forward.

I am happy to talk to anyone as long as they can stick to talking about the HMs.

I am just not interested in petty point scoring against forum members. I don't take anything personally here I just dislike the white noise of deflection and petty insults. Honestly, some here seem to hate other FMs so much but I see this all as just part of the game. I don't dislike a person just because they see a HM differently this year... They will probably be agreeing with me in another one.

I am sorry that you can't just engage in this manner and just talk about HMs, but ok, you do you, it's fine.

[Mystic Mock]

Nothing she has done has been caring. Everything has been self serving.

Trying to groom Hanah away from the lads, for example, is not 'caring' about Hanah... It's just getting another nom to support her, or at least to not be on her.

Ali saw weakness and exploited it.

I'm going to give Ali some credit and say that she felt sorry for Hanah's situation with the other girls in the house.

But, I do also think that she saw it as an opportunity to try and gain a number for her side.

It's a win win, and tbh something that I would like to think that I would try to do if I were in the house.

[Mystic Mock]

I don't automatically see the worst in people and i am positive about a lot of people, my wide range of posts here support that, I simply recognise the plays and behaviours in Ali.

Ali has groomed and manipulated her way through this entire series. It's who she is.

Imagine attempting to smear the speaker rather than talk about the point being made. This seems to be a really common thing in Ali fans.

Who's Ali groomed?:laugh:

[BBXX]

That's a very Ali thing to say.

Thank you :blush: I knew someone was going to say that :laugh:

Look I don't want to get any more personal but I dislike the 'tone' vesavius often posts in, and some of the things they've said have wound me up and so it's absolutely best for everyone's sake that I just put vesavius on Ignore. I don't want to argue, I am sure vesavius doesn't want to argue and nobody wants to read two people sniping.

Sometimes two people clash and that's okay. I'd rather minimise the chance of that happening, that's all.

[BBXX]

I am happy to talk to anyone as long as they can stick to talking about the HMs.

I am just not interested in petty point scoring against forum members. I don't take anything personally here I just dislike the white noise of deflection and petty insults. Honestly, some here seem to hate other FMs so much but I see this all as just part of the game. I don't dislike a person just because they see a HM differently this year... They will probably be agreeing with me in another one.

I am sorry that you can't just engage in this manner and just talk about HMs, but ok, you do you, it's fine.

I apologise for my reactions to your posts. It's a me issue and I take things too personally. I don't like some of the way your posts come across sometimes but you should be free to post how you like without me biting.

[vesavius]

I'm going to give Ali some credit and say that she felt sorry for Hanah's situation with the other girls in the house.

But, I do also think that she saw it as an opportunity to try and gain a number for her side.

It's a win win, and tbh something that I would like to think that I would try to do if I were in the house.

Nah, she saw weakness and jumped on it in order to exploit it

That whole 'give her somewhere to land' conversation was exactly what Ali is about.. Cynical self serving game playing dressed up as compassion. The grasping for power from behind a shield of fake virtue.

I have been saying for days that Ali is empire building in there and this was just another example of her doing that. She is grooming others in order to manipulate their nom in order to protect herself, not because she on any level gives a **** about them.

[vesavius]

I apologise for my reactions to your posts. It's a me issue and I take things too personally. I don't like some of the way your posts come across sometimes but you should be free to post how you like without me biting.

It's all good, no worries.

[Mystic Mock]

Nah, she saw weakness and jumped on it in order to exploit it

That whole 'give her somewhere to land' conversation was exactly what Ali is about.. Cynical self serving game playing dressed up as compassion. The grasping for power from behind a shield of fake virtue.

I have been saying for days that Ali is empire building in there and this was just another example of her doing that. She is grooming others in order to manipulate their nom in order to protect herself, not because she on any level gives a **** about them.

I don't believe that Ali is a heartless monster like you're making her sound.:laugh:

Would she be my kind of person irl? I don't think so really, and I do agree with you that she's a big manipulator in the house.

But she must have some level of compassion towards other people's struggles, especially given her profession, that's why I think that Ali on some level cared about Hanah's situation last night.

[vesavius]

I don't believe that Ali is a heartless monster like you're making her sound.:laugh:

Would she be my kind of person irl? I don't think so really, and I do agree with you that she's a big manipulator in the house.

But she must have some level of compassion towards other people's struggles, especially given her profession, that's why I think that Ali on some level cared about Hanah's situation last night.

I have never used the terms heartless or monster, to be fair.

I am sure that she irl cares about things and people. But in that house I simply see her game and the way that she chooses to play it.... Othering, grooming, negative imaging, and manipulating are not qualities that I admire is all and I see her doing that constantly. The current situation with Hanah is no exception.

Her real life profession requires no compassion though I don't think. Forensic psychology isn't about that.

[Mystic Mock]

I have never used the terms heartless or monster, to be fair.

I am sure that she irl cares about things and people. But in that house I simply see her game and the way that she chooses to play it.... Othering, grooming, negative imaging, and manipulating are not qualities that I admire is all and I see her doing that constantly. The current situation with Hanah is no exception.

Her real life profession requires no compassion though I don't think. Forensic psychology isn't about that.

I would just imagine that most people that work in Forensic Psychology would have a basic level of empathy, but maybe I'm wrong tbf as I'm not an expert on this topic.

And I do largely agree with your points, I just do wonder if on the side did Ali also feel bad for Hanah a little bit.

[vesavius]

And I do largely agree with your points, I just do wonder if on the side did Ali also feel bad for Hanah a little bit.

Maybe, but that wasn't her motivation. She didn't give a **** about how Hanah felt until she had the opportunity to try and recruit her.

[FromBB8]

Maybe, but that wasn't her motivation. She didn't give a **** about how Hanah felt until she had the opportunity to try and recruit her.

I think the problem is we've seen before - I think it was on the highlights rather than the live feed - Ali say about bringing Hanah over from the other group. At that point there was no sign that she was struggling with female company or drifting away from the guys. It did seem like a gameplay move.

I can see why people would argue from a place of compassion yesterday, and I can see it myself if I take myself away from what has happened before. But the above is nagging at me, and I cannot help it doing so.

[Vanessa]

As if Hannah can be recruited. She does what she pleases :laugh:

[vesavius]

As if Hannah can be recruited. She does what she pleases :laugh:

Hanah really isn't the independent-thinking boss bitch that she pretends to be. It's mainly bluster and posturing.

[vesavius]

I think the problem is we've seen before - I think it was on the highlights rather than the live feed - Ali say about bringing Hanah over from the other group. At that point there was no sign that she was struggling with female company or drifting away from the guys. It did seem like a gameplay move.

I can see why people would argue from a place of compassion yesterday, and I can see it myself if I take myself away from what has happened before. But the above is nagging at me, and I cannot help it doing so.

Everything is being played in a very cynical and calculating way, one that relies on playing the audience as much as the house. She reminds me of Aaron in the way that she is doing that now that she has switched strategies after her first one failing so very badly.

In her case being seen as 'compassionate Ali' is part of that... But it's performative niceness. Like I say zero ***** were given until it was a weakness to be exploited.

I actually do think it will work out for Ali though and she will be there on final night.

[eternal]

Nothing she has done has been caring. Everything has been self serving.

Trying to groom Hanah away from the lads, for example, is not 'caring' about Hanah... It's just getting another nom to support her, or at least to not be on her.

Ali saw weakness and exploited it.
This.

It was actually disturbing to see Ali slowly walk over to Hanah to "comfort" her.

A couple of scenes later she's telling her lap dogs they need to get Hanah on board because she's feeling "vulnerable".

[vesavius]

This.

It was actually disturbing to see Ali slowly walk over to Hanah to "comfort" her.

A couple of scenes later she's telling her lap dogs they need to get Hanah on board because she's feeling "vulnerable".

It's actually really creepy how fast Ali spots weakness and vulnerability and zeros on it iin order to exploit it.

[Zizu]

This.

It was actually disturbing to see Ali slowly walk over to Hanah to "comfort" her.

A couple of scenes later she's telling her lap dogs they need to get Hanah on board because she's feeling "vulnerable".


I am not watching the series now but you’ve just described , in some detail , someone being thoughtful and considerate .

So how on earth you have you read it as being ‘disturbing’ is mystifying


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[Zizu]

It's actually really creepy how fast Ali spots weakness and vulnerability and zeros on it iin order to exploit it.


No comment


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[GoldHeart]

I am not watching the series now but you’ve just described , in some detail , someone being thoughtful and considerate .

So how on earth you have you read it as being ‘disturbing’ is mystifying


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Wait ...did you say you stopped watching???:conf: .

[Zizu]

Wait ...did you say you stopped watching???:conf: .


I stopped watching ages ago as I found this forum’s ridiculous character assassination of Ali too much too of a strain .

So I went cold turkey and stopped watching the series and just limited my posts to general stuff

It worked out well as we are staying with relatives in Florida and so watching hours of BB each night is completely unfeasable


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[GoldHeart]

I stopped watching ages ago as I found this forum’s ridiculous character assassination of Ali too much too of a strain .

So I went cold turkey and stopped watching the series and just limited my posts to general stuff

It worked out well as we are staying with relatives in Florida and so watching hours of BB each night is completely unfeasable


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But if you're not watching ,how can you comment and tell us we're " wrong" ? . You're missing what's happening.

You actually would have liked last night's show Ali & Hanah had a sweet moment,I even said so myself. It seemed genuine even on Ali's part ,she saw Hanah was upset...and had a private heart to heart upstairs.

The reason people doubt Ali's motives,is because afterwards she was outside with Dean etc talking about taking Hanah into their group. It's like she's gone a little into game mode / recruitment. But if you're not watching Zizu ..then you won't know what we mean :shrug:.

I think the moment was sincere from Ali ,but I think she's still trying to use it to her advantage...and she wants more strength in numbers. You might not agree,but that's how I see it .

On another note ,I hope you're enjoying your holiday with relatives in Florida :wavey: . It's good to unwind & take a break.

[vesavius]

I am not watching the series now but you’ve just described , in some detail , someone being thoughtful and considerate .



I mean, it's hard to take the opinion seriously of someone that isn't even watching the show. :shrug:

But thanks for bumping the thread either way.

[Benjamin]

I mean, it's hard to take the opinion seriously of someone that isn't even watching the show. :shrug:

But thanks for bumping the thread either way.

:clap1:

[Zizu]

I mean, it's hard to take the opinion seriously of someone that isn't even watching the show. :shrug:

But thanks for bumping the thread either way.


I didn’t comment on the series. I commented on someone’s specific take on an incident .

I couldn’t explain myself any clearer to be perfectly honest .. I

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[Zizu]

:clap1:


Now you’re just following me around the forum trying to find fault with just about anything I say


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[Benjamin]

Now you’re just following me around the forum trying to find fault with just about anything I say


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No, I’m not that bored. I agree I don’t understand why you’re still commenting on things you haven’t seen and tell people they are wrong because you’re obsessed with Ali.

[vesavius]

Now you’re just following me around the forum trying to find fault with just about anything I say


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This is pretty much I feel about you replying to me every time in order to make personal comments or whatever, even when you aren't watching! :joker::joker:

[GoldHeart]

I guess you didn't see my comment Zizu

[Zizu]

No, I’m not that bored. I agree I don’t understand why you’re still commenting on things you haven’t seen and tell people they are wrong because you’re obsessed with Ali.


I have been commenting on specific posts rather than the series

Its really not that complicated


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[Benjamin]

I have been commenting on specific posts rather than the series

Its really not that complicated


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You’re missing the point. You’re commenting on posts and telling people they’re wrong when you haven’t even watched it.

[Zizu]

This is pretty much I feel about you replying to me every time in order to make personal comments or whatever, even when you aren't watching! :joker::joker:


I am just commenting on specifically outlandish posts rather than the series which I haven’t watched since about the 19th October


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[Zizu]

You’re missing the point. You’re commenting on posts and telling people they’re wrong when you haven’t even watched it.


The series is irrelevant when I am discussing a particular post not an incident or event


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[Beso]

Her pyramid will only have 2 sides now when One of the 3 queers alliance goes tonight

[Zizu]

You’re missing the point. You’re commenting on posts and telling people they’re wrong when you haven’t even watched it.


Show me an example where I have not specifically referred to a post


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[Zizu]

Her pyramid will only have 2 sides now when One of the 3 queers alliance goes tonight


Why word it that way ffs


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[BBXX]

Why word it that way ffs


The amount of subtle homophobia on this forum is actually staggering, it makes me sick.

[Zizu]

The amount of subtle homophobia on this forum is actually staggering, it makes me sick.


I am scared of commenting .. too many infractions and warnings just recently


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[Zizu]

You’re missing the point. You’re commenting on posts and telling people they’re wrong when you haven’t even watched it.


I comment on stand alone posts like the one below .. ones where you don’t have to have seen the incident .

I said it was quite a stretch to reach that conclusion

Hopefully this clears the matter up https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20241030/d188ed64bf35682320bda3fbc07e1af5.jpg


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[Benjamin]

I comment on stand alone posts like the one below .. ones where you don’t have to have seen the incident .

I said it was quite a stretch to reach that conclusion

Hopefully this clears the matter up https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20241030/d188ed64bf35682320bda3fbc07e1af5.jpg


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Not really but I cba to talk about your pointless posts.

[Zizu]

Not really but I cba to talk about your pointless posts.


Well I cannot make things any clearer ..


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[Beso]

Why word it that way ffs


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That's how the 3 of them describe it.:shrug: dont shoot the messenger.:nono:

[Beso]

The amount of subtle homophobia on this forum is actually staggering, it makes me sick.

You are commenting in a thread about Ali describing her pyramid theory to Dean..it is exactly how she described herself, dean, and martha at the bottom of that pyramid.

Queers, thays what she said, 3 queers. Which incidentally is the Q in LGBTQ, and people are proud to wear that badge so I will say queer whenever I want, thank you very much.

[BBXX]

You are commenting in a thread about Ali describing her pyramid theory to Dean..it is exactly how she described herself, dean, and martha at the bottom of that pyramid.

Queers, thays what she said, 3 queers. Which incidentally is the Q in LGBTQ, and people are proud to wear that badge so I will say queer whenever I want, thank you very much.

A lesbian referred to herself and two housemates she is close to as the queer housemates. She’s never ever referred to it as the 3 Queer Alliance and it’s not up to a straight person to do so on her behalf.

[Beso]

A lesbian referred to herself and two housemates she is close to as the queer housemates. She’s never ever referred to it as the 3 Queer Alliance and it’s not up to a straight person to do so on her behalf.



I'm doing it on my own behalf thank you, you dont own gay.:nono:

The 3 self proclaimed queers have formed a short lived alliance, I am calling it the 3 queer alliance..what's wrong with that?

[BBXX]

I'm doing it on my own behalf thank you, you dont own gay.:nono:

But that’s not what the alliance is called. The alliance doesn’t even have a name. In fact Ali, Nathan and Dean arent even in a 3-alliance.

So when straight person, who has made questionable similar comments in the past, bunches them together as an alliance and names it the Queer Alliance it conveys a subtle homophobic rhetoric, that is how it is.

[Beso]

They are definitely an alliance.

[vesavius]

Show me an example where I have not specifically referred to a post


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Honestly not interested Zizu. Take your personal squabbles elsewhere.

[Zizu]

That's how the 3 of them describe it.:shrug: dont shoot the messenger.:nono:


My apologies if that’s correct


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[Beso]

A lesbian referred to herself and two housemates she is close to as the queer housemates. She’s never ever referred to it as the 3 Queer Alliance and it’s not up to a straight person to do so on her behalf.

Do the LGBTQ community want people to use these words, or not?

Because I'm confused!

Is it only people falling under the rainbow banner that's allowed to use them because im sorry, but you cant be telling people what words they can or cant use.

I will say however to stop you being so offended, and to stop you accusing me if casual homophobia that I will now cease from uttering that word on here again.

[BBXX]

Do the LGBTQ community want people to use these words, or not?

Because I'm confused!

Is it only people falling under the rainbow banner that's allowed to use them because im sorry, but you cant be telling people what words they can or cant use.

I will say however to stop you being so offended, and to stop you accusing me if casual homophobia that I will now cease from uttering that word on here again.

The issue wasn't with you using the word queer, it was the context it was used in - it was you calling them the ' 3 Queer Alliance' when they themselves haven't coined that phrase. They are not in an alliance of three, you've taken it from when Ali was talking about the triangle and said that in the middle and the bottom are the "queer housemates". Totally different.

Would you group people of colour together and call them a "POC-Alliance" or what about if a few HMs who happened to be friends shared a religion? That would be equally inappropriate.

It's like when you called Henry and Jordan's relationship a "gay parade". Yes, they were both gay but would you ever refer to any straight relationship as the "straight parade".

It's completely unnecessary.

[Beso]

That's thats the difference though, The POC in the house havnt called themselves the POC group, ali and dean clearly referred to themselves as the queera at the bottom of the pyramid.. not the middle, but the bottom. They lumped Martha in with them, making it 3. I think Ali said, "that leaves us, the 3 queers at the bottom"

Then you had the conversation between the 3 of them together in Alis bed, talking about getting hanah into their group..*group = alliance*

So I rekon I'm ok calling it what I did, even as a straight person. People, or groups of people do not own words, nor can they tell others what and when they can use certain words. I wouldnt however use straight parade as a term either, because there is no parade for being straight, there are many for being gay though, which is why I linked the 2 words together on that occasion.

I think you are far to quick to point fingers at people for the words and wording they use in referring to people and situations.

[bots]

people can use terms in whatever way they want, this is a country of free speech. If something is not regarded as hate speech then it is fine. However, i do accept that laws differ between england and scotland in that regard now

[BBXX]

That's thats the difference though, The POC in the house havnt called themselves the POC group, ali and dean clearly referred to themselves as the queera at the bottom of the pyramid.. not the middle, but the bottom. They lumped Martha in with them, making it 3. I think Ali said, "that leaves us, the 3 queers at the bottom"

It's not the same, IMO and they've never called themselves the Queer Alliance but we're going round in circles. If you want to carry on saying it, despite it not existing, then crack on.

I wouldn't however use straight parade as a term either, because there is no parade for being straight, there are many for being gay though, which is why I linked the 2 words together on that occasion.

You were referring to their relationship in the house. Nothing to do with pride. Even if you didn't use the word Parade, saying "it's better than the gay relationship last year" sounds odd and questionable. You wouldn't say "better than the straight relationship last year". You just wouldn't.

Look, you're free to say what you want and I am free to call it how I find it. I really don't want to just keep going round in circles about this because we're not going to agree on this subject so it feels pointless.

[BBXX]

people can use terms in whatever way they want, this is a country of free speech. If something is not regarded as hate speech then it is fine. However, i do accept that laws differ between england and scotland in that regard now

Absolutely, free speech exists. Beso is free to use certain words, I am free to say if I find the context offensive. Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequence and the consequence on this occasion is me saying sometimes what Beso say sounds a bit homophobic. :shrug:

[Garfie]

I would just imagine that most people that work in Forensic Psychology would have a basic level of empathy, but maybe I'm wrong tbf as I'm not an expert on this topic.

And I do largely agree with your points, I just do wonder if on the side did Ali also feel bad for Hanah a little bit.

I don’t think you’re wrong in this suggestion at all, as I believe both things can be true at the same time, in respect that people can have more than one motive for carrying out any particular action.

On an emotional level, Ali might well have felt genuine empathy for Hanah, whilst on an intellectual level she might have recognised that Hanah could help her feel a greater sense of security in adding numbers to her group. To add to that, on a sub-conscious level, her background in psychology might have triggered her analytical thinking, and taken her comfortably into the role of counselling or calming down a person in distress.

The truth is none of us truly know what another person’s motives might be, and ironically Ali might not even be fully aware of her own motives, or she might perceive them differently to others.

In just the same way, members of the forum will perceive Ali differently, depending on their own backgrounds, knowledge and experiences. Most of what is expressed on here in terms of assessing or judging a housemate’s character, is personal opinion based on individual perception, as that’s all it can be. It’s one of the reasons I always try to clearly present my opinions as just that, rather than stating them as fact. In reality, no-one can claim they are more right than anyone else, and as long as opinions are based on justifiable evidence, everyone’s is equally valid.

[Beso]

Absolutely, free speech exists. Beso is free to use certain words, I am free to say if I find the context offensive. Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequence and the consequence on this occasion is me saying sometimes what Beso say sounds a bit homophobic. :shrug:

There is a difference though, my words have no direct consequences for another person, whereas your words, which is basically you saying I'm a hateful person(which is rather hateful in itself) have a direct consequence for me.

[BBXX]

There is a difference though, my words have no direct consequences for another person, whereas your words, which is basically you saying I'm a hateful person(which is rather hateful in itself) have a direct consequence for me.

I have never said you're hateful because I do not think that. I haven't even said you're a homophobe. I have said some of the things you say come across a little homophobic.

I don't believe you intend to offend people with your words, but I do believe you may not realise how they could be perceived.

If I have made you feel like I think you're a hateful person, I apologise because I truly don't think that. I don't know you.

[Garfie]

That's thats the difference though, The POC in the house havnt called themselves the POC group, ali and dean clearly referred to themselves as the queera at the bottom of the pyramid.. not the middle, but the bottom. They lumped Martha in with them, making it 3. I think Ali said, "that leaves us, the 3 queers at the bottom"

Then you had the conversation between the 3 of them together in Alis bed, talking about getting hanah into their group..*group = alliance*

So I rekon I'm ok calling it what I did, even as a straight person. People, or groups of people do not own words, nor can they tell others what and when they can use certain words. I wouldnt however use straight parade as a term either, because there is no parade for being straight, there are many for being gay though, which is why I linked the 2 words together on that occasion.

I think you are far to quick to point fingers at people for the words and wording they use in referring to people and situations.

I’m sorry but I have to back up BBXX here. From a neutral perspective, I think you are cleverly playing with words here to send an underlying message without overtly stating it, as you know that doing so wouldn’t be wise.

Your faux innocence, does not disguise the fact that you are fully aware of your intentions - as are many of us witnessing this interaction.

[BBXX]

Also I absolutely cannot ignore the fact that you are so outraged that I've called some of your words homophobic yet you will happily label Ali racist based on absolutely no evidence.

[Beso]

I have never said you're hateful because I do not think that. I haven't even said you're a homophobe. I have said some of the things you say come across a little homophobic.

I don't believe you intend to offend people with your words, but I do believe you may not realise how they could be perceived.

If I have made you feel like I think you're a hateful person, I apologise because I truly don't think that. I don't know you.



No need to apologise, and I understand you better now. I shall be more carefull in the future so we can both be happier.

[Beso]

I’m sorry but I have to back up BBXX here. From a neutral perspective, I think you are cleverly playing with words here to send an underlying message without overtly stating it, as you know that doing so wouldn’t be wise.

Your faux innocence, does not disguise the fact that you are fully aware of your intentions - as are many of us witnessing this interaction.

Cleverly playing with words..well that's a first for me, so you dont need to apologise, even though you are incorrect.

I've said what I said and explained why i said it, if people cant take a straight person calling people the term they want to be called, then I cant help that.:shrug:

And, who is ali to call martha queer, does she know that's how martha wants herself to be described in discussions..couldnt she have just said, you me and martha? Was she cleverly using words to get a reaction, positive reaction, from the viewer?

[Garfie]

There is a difference though, my words have no direct consequences for another person, whereas your words, which is basically you saying I'm a hateful person(which is rather hateful in itself) have a direct consequence for me.

You’re wrong. Your words do have a direct consequence to any LGTBQ+ person in this forum who happens to be reading this thread, or other threads in which you have made similar comments. Those people will have been subject to this sort of thing repeatedly in their lives, and you do it purposely to degrade them and because you know it will have a negative effect.

In my opinion, you also choose to do it all by implication and suggestion as you are fully aware of the consequences of stating it openly.

And know this is coming from a straight person, who has seen it all too often before. Know too, that your words are having a direct consequence on me, by just witnessing them, as they are wrong.

I won’t call you a hateful person, but I will say your actions are hateful. And, I believe you already know that. I’m truly saddened to read this sort of stuff in this day and age.

[Beso]

You’re wrong. Your words do have a direct consequence to any LGTBQ+ person in this forum who happens to be reading this thread, or other threads in which you have made similar comments. Those people will have been subject to this sort of thing repeatedly in their lives, and you do it purposely to degrade them and because you know it will have a negative effect.

In my opinion, you also choose to do it all by implication and suggestion as you are fully aware of the consequences of stating it openly.

And know this is coming from a straight person, who has seen it all too often before. Know too, that your words are having a direct consequence on me, by just witnessing them, as they are wrong.

I won’t call you a hateful person, but I will say your actions are hateful. And, I believe you already know that. I’m truly saddened to read this sort of stuff in this day and age.



Well can you please tell me what word to use for people who identify as the Q in LGBTQ so I can use that instead.

[GoldHeart]

Can Ali just shut the hell up , can tell it annoys her that Khaled is popular on the outside world. And why is she going on about the other group " protecting themselves and not voting for anyone else", first of all ..I'm pretty sure she's hovering over nom talk ...but ok BB we'll let that one off .

But I'm sorry but isn't she also protecting her friends!??? :crazy: :conf:, she's never going to nominate Lily , Nathan or Dean . So why is she so salty at the other group being " strong" . She wants Hanah on her side , but Hanah is still friends with the boys.

For once Lily said something somewhat optimistic by saying " it will bring us all closer together", of course Ali had to burst that with her negativity...by basically saying " no " :notimpressed: .

[FromBB8]

Can Ali just shut the hell up , can tell it annoys her that Khaled is popular on the outside world. And why is she going on about the other group " protecting themselves and not voting for anyone else", first of all ..I'm pretty sure she's hovering over nom talk ...but ok BB we'll let that one off .

But I'm sorry but isn't she also protecting her friends!??? :crazy: :conf:, she's never going to nominate Lily , Nathan or Dean . So why is she so salty at the other group being " strong" . She wants Hanah on her side , but Hanah is still friends with the boys.

For once Lily said something somewhat optimistic by saying " it will bring us all closer together", of course Ali had to burst that with her negativity...by basically saying " no " :notimpressed: .

She paired Lily with Hanah simply to try and protect her. She can hardly be surprised when the other friendship group want to protect their own.

I do want to see Lily in the house without Ali. I think it'd be interesting to see who she starts to grow closer to.

[GoldHeart]

She paired Lily with Hanah simply to try and protect her. She can hardly be surprised when the other friendship group want to protect their own.

I do want to see Lily in the house without Ali. I think it'd be interesting to see who she starts to grow closer to.

Exactly this

[Garfie]

Well can you please tell me what word to use for people who identify as the Q in LGBTQ so I can use that instead.

I’m not playing your game.

[Beso]

I’m not playing your game.

Then a man of my age will never learn I'm afraid.:shrug:

[GoldHeart]

I’m not playing your game.

I think it gets a little baity on here in general tbh ,and there's even a thread accusing Khaled of being
" homophobic" for no reason. So stuff like that doesn't help.

Ali herself kept saying " Queer" , she even referred to Nathan as that ... despite the fact he doesn't want a label. I got the impression " Queer" is now used as an umbrella term for not being totally straight/ hetro. But yeah there will be some who don't like that word , however it is part of the letter in LGBTQ , so not sure how those people feel about it being a part of the letter group.

I think sometimes people are just confused and to what they can say ,it isn't always coming from a malicious place. But I will say ... sometimes people lash out as a tot for tat ,and as Martha would say ' it's giving playgroup ' .

[Beso]

Just to defend myself further, my reasons for saying Ali could be racist is because she felt she had to check on hanah way back when hanah and kahled had their chat after their drama.. and also her beef with kahled from the outset...

She wasn't like that with any other man so why kahled, the young Muslim?

Admittedly I dont think that now. I think it's just men in general.

[GoldHeart]

Just to defend myself further, my reasons for saying Ali could be racist is because she felt she had to check on hanah way back when hanah and kahled had their chat after their drama.. and also her beef with kahled from the outset...

She wasn't like that with any other man so why kahled, the young Muslim?

Admittedly I dont think that now. I think it's just men in general.



I think it was more her 'feminist' side coming out, and she thought she was protecting Hanah. It was grating though as that conversation with Khaled & Hanah had nothing to do with her .

She pre judges people, especially men in general.

Martha did a similar thing ,when again Khaled was having a private 1 to 1 with Ali ....and Martha felt the need to interrupt to ask Ali " are you ok " . When again it had nothing to do with Martha.

It reminded me

[GoldHeart]

Just to defend myself further, my reasons for saying Ali could be racist is because she felt she had to check on hanah way back when hanah and kahled had their chat after their drama.. and also her beef with kahled from the outset...

She wasn't like that with any other man so why kahled, the young Muslim?

Admittedly I dont think that now. I think it's just men in general.


But Hanah is Muslim aswell , so was Izaaz .And Ali got on pretty well with Izaaz . Which actually makes her pyramid argument crumble.

[Beso]

But Hanah is Muslim aswell , so was Izaaz .And Ali got on pretty well with Izaaz . Which actually makes her pyramid argument crumble.


Thats why I dont believe it now..dont really believe the man thing either now because shes always rubbing Marcellos back in praise, even after her disgust at his I'll timed choice of language.

[BBXX]

I think it gets a little baity on here in general tbh ,and there's even a thread accusing Khaled of being
" homophobic" for no reason. So stuff like that doesn't help.

Ali herself kept saying " Queer" , she even referred to Nathan as that ... despite the fact he doesn't want a label. I got the impression " Queer" is now used as an umbrella term for not being totally straight/ hetro. But yeah there will be some who don't like that word , however it is part of the letter in LGBTQ , so not sure how those people feel about it being a part of the letter group.

I think sometimes people are just confused and to what they can say ,it isn't always coming from a malicious place. But I will say ... sometimes people lash out as a tot for tat ,and as Martha would say ' it's giving playgroup ' .

I just want to point out once again it's not the usage of the word, it's the context it's within.

Another example from the same user, aside from the two I have mentioned, is in the 'Soap Star arrested for having sex with underage boys' thread where he says "TV gays are a different breed". If the news article was 'Soap Star arrested for having sex with underage girls' and I said "TV straights are a different breed" it would be extremely inappropriate not to mention weird.

Another example was where he suggested Ali might fancy Khaled because "go gay, you gotta stay" like sexuality was a choice, despite the fact Ali calls herself a Lesbian.

Another example is him saying he'd rather die in war than be "bummed in jail"

Another example is saying "They like a bit of rape in these gays bars" like rape doesn't happen anywhere else.

Mentioning sexuality where it's not warranted is a tactic (yes I know I sound like Ali) that people use to draw negative attention to a particular group without actually saying anything negative.

I am sure I could go on with more examples but I won't. The attempt at looking innocent despite a back catalogue of questionable content is disingenuous to say the least. I was trying to be polite but sometimes a spade is just that.

[Garfie]

I think it gets a little baity on here in general tbh ,and there's even a thread accusing Khaled of being
" homophobic" for no reason. So stuff like that doesn't help.

Ali herself kept saying " Queer" , she even referred to Nathan as that ... despite the fact he doesn't want a label. I got the impression " Queer" is now used as an umbrella term for not being totally straight/ hetro. But yeah there will be some who don't like that word , however it is part of the letter in LGBTQ , so not sure how those people feel about it being a part of the letter group.

I think sometimes people are just confused and to what they can say ,it isn't always coming from a malicious place. But I will say ... sometimes people lash out as a tot for tat ,and as Martha would say ' it's giving playgroup ' .

Hey, I appreciate your response as I have a lot of respect for you, and this thread was truly something else in a number of interactions. I can understand that sometimes in a heated debate, people can express themselves badly or in the wrong way, and I accept that.

However, sometimes people get personal and unpleasant just for the sake of it or potentially due to some underlying beliefs. Some of the posts on this thread were not sudden and heated outbursts or the result of confusions, but much more carefully considered to achieve a certain impact and to make people feel a particular way. I’ve seen this too often- in fact, my job requires training in understanding and recognising it - and I believe I recognise it for what it is. On this occasion, I can’t be swayed from that.

I understand the terminology and the acceptable use of it, so the problem wasn’t the use of the word ‘queer’ or me having any dislike of it, but of how it was being used in a taunting and deliberate way to send a certain message. When the thin line of homophobia or any other prejudice is being skated on, I can’t stand by and watch that happen, yet say nothing about it. When people continue to do it, when someone else has clearly explained the implications and effects, they are doing so by choice, and proving it is intentional.

[Beso]

You should really post the threads all those were said in, for true context...cause the tv one was said because we have had high profile cases of gay tv stars messing up..


The bumming in jail happens, only a fool would deny that, and that was said in an argument about fighting for the uk or going to jail..


The rape in these bars comment was about a rape in a gay bar where staff stood by and let a drug dealer rape someone in manchester.

Gay you gotta stay, was uttered by me when I was saying uf Ali can go from straight relationships to lesbian relationships, then there is no reason why she couldntcrevert back to a straight relationship


I once even said 2 paedophiles could pretend to be gay in order to adopt a child to abuse from that came an accusation that us still used against me which is that I think all gays are paedos.. a slanderous accusation, much like the way this is going.

[BBXX]

None of that was a good defence, I hope you understand. I'm not engaging with you on this any further, the topic had been derailed enough.

[GoldHeart]

Hey, I appreciate your response as I have a lot of respect for you, and this thread was truly something else in a number of interactions. I can understand that sometimes in a heated debate, people can express themselves badly or in the wrong way, and I accept that.

However, sometimes people get personal and unpleasant just for the sake of it or potentially due to some underlying beliefs. Some of the posts on this thread were not sudden and heated outbursts or the result of confusions, but much more carefully considered to achieve a certain impact and to make people feel a particular way. I’ve seen this too often- in fact, my job requires training in understanding and recognising it - and I believe I recognise it for what it is. On this occasion, I can’t be swayed from that.

I understand the terminology and the acceptable use of it, so the problem wasn’t the use of the word ‘queer’ or me having any dislike of it, but of how it was being used in a taunting and deliberate way to send a certain message. When the thin line of homophobia or any other prejudice is being skated on, I can’t stand by and watch that happen, yet say nothing about it. When people continue to do it, when someone else has clearly explained the implications and effects, they are doing so by choice, and proving it is intentional.

I completely understand you , but there's alot of double standards . I've seen comments mocking Khaled & Segun's sexuality....as if somehow they're both secretly in the closet or something, those same people then hit the roof when Ali's sexuality is being mocked & disrespected. I wish there was consistency.

I've seen it from all sides on here. I wish people would stop the sniping and getting personal .

[BBXX]

I completely understand you , but there's alot of double standards . I've seen comments mocking Khaled & Segun's sexuality....as if somehow they're both secretly in the closet or something, those same people then hit the roof when Ali's sexuality is being mocked & disrespected. I wish there was consistency.

I've seen it from all sides on here. I wish people would stop the sniping and getting personal .

I have seen that too and spoken out - literally in the last 24 hours I told a user we shouldn't invalidate Khaled's sexuality. Others behaviour is somewhat irrelevant though, it just deflects from the topic at hand.

[GoldHeart]

I have seen that too and spoken out - literally in the last 24 hours I told a user we shouldn't invalidate Khaled's sexuality. Others behaviour is somewhat irrelevant though, it just deflects from the topic at hand.

Yeah I've seen that :clap1: I'm glad you've spoken out. For what it's worth I wasn't aiming it at you.

These topics do deflect big time , can get annoying.

[vesavius]

Can Ali just shut the hell up , can tell it annoys her that Khaled is popular on the outside world. And why is she going on about the other group " protecting themselves and not voting for anyone else", first of all ..I'm pretty sure she's hovering over nom talk ...but ok BB we'll let that one off .

But I'm sorry but isn't she also protecting her friends!??? :crazy: :conf:, she's never going to nominate Lily , Nathan or Dean . So why is she so salty at the other group being " strong" . She wants Hanah on her side , but Hanah is still friends with the boys.

For once Lily said something somewhat optimistic by saying " it will bring us all closer together", of course Ali had to burst that with her negativity...by basically saying " no " :notimpressed: .

The woman has zero intellectual or moral consistency. She only cares about others in there as far as she can use them to be human shields to get her to the final.

I think that she now understands that grooming Hanah over won't work and that her little play there failed.

What we saw at the end last night was the realisation that her minions are just not liked outside the house and all she can rely on to survive is them being less liked than she is.

She knows the week that she is put up against Lily she is toast.

[Beso]

Like goldheart, think the best of.

Dislike beso, think the worst of.

Its that simple fur you garfie, thats why you claim to know why I said it..


Real reason us I thought 3 queers was catchy, and seeing as ali named them the queers, and there was 3 of them, and because if the bedroom chat about influencing hanah to come to their group of 3, I used the catchphrase 3 queer alliance for them.

I also stated I wouldnt use it again because it may upset people but you've skirted past that and claimed I'm continuing to use it even after the hurt it can cause was explained.

[Maru]

The issue wasn't with you using the word queer, it was the context it was used in - it was you calling them the ' 3 Queer Alliance' when they themselves haven't coined that phrase. They are not in an alliance of three, you've taken it from when Ali was talking about the triangle and said that in the middle and the bottom are the "queer housemates". Totally different.

Would you group people of colour together and call them a "POC-Alliance" or what about if a few HMs who happened to be friends shared a religion? That would be equally inappropriate.

It's like when you called Henry and Jordan's relationship a "gay parade". Yes, they were both gay but would you ever refer to any straight relationship as the "straight parade".

It's completely unnecessary.

When do any of us ever have the luxury of determining when and what others call us? That's not reality. Ali got called red witch of all things. I see that as completely offensive, but it's also just as funny. Should I exorcise (no witch puns intended) the part of me that has a sense of humor. I'm sure they didn't get permission to "coin" that term. I feel like the above stance is too rigid and isn't willing to accept that there is subjectivity when it comes to the perceptions surrounding the use of words.

For example, I don't like that Ali took up the red witch term. I feel like that term whatever Marcello & co intended left a hurtful energy on her time in the house. But she enjoys using it, so what am I to say? (And costume looked awesome).

Where people others use names that they call themselves know most will think are vulgar or happen to be one of those wildcard words (Queer is one of them...) that can warrant a pro-acceptance celebration one minute and pitchforks the next. I just don't play that game. It's deceptive. I think it is ridiculous when the LGBT, or I should say not even the LGBT people themselves but the narcs who now hijacked them... they think they can a plethora of words and tell other people how to use them... **** that... and there comes a point when enough is enough and we all should stop playing the game. Beso is one of those people who don't play that shitty game and I appreciate him for that

The only meaningful context here is it's being used to comment on a highly edited TV show. This is a TV show forum so we should be able to comment on what we perceive about the house dynamics. If he sees people building an alliance based on an alliance of Queers (perfectly valid use of that term imv, but perceptions obviously vary :shrug:)... I might think that the argument could be made that isn't entirely true, that she may chuck Dean at the earlier convenience...

It is a game and I think that the seriousness aspect at which Ali is approaching the game is hurting her time in there more than helping her. She does not have to see things as groups and she shouldn't take offense at things as groups, but it is a choice to her... and a good argument to have would be about how other people also only see groups and how these terms/etc, get floated about and cause impressions because inevitably when you start seeing people as only being in certain groups, then it can easily create negative feelings/associations for those people... Beso calling them Queer for example, shouldn't have a negative connotation, but we're implying that it could and I think that's troublesome also ... hopefully that was clear, but I'm open to being wrong on any of it, tbh... (Except Beso, I like Beso :love:)

[Beso]

None of that was a good defence, I hope you understand. I'm not engaging with you on this any further, the topic had been derailed enough.

Coming back to post about me in a long winded attempt at a gotcha moment to another user then saying the above is nothing more than a **** house move.

[GoldHeart]

The woman has zero intellectual or moral consistency. She only cares about others in there as far as she can use them to be human shields to get her to the final.

I think that she now understands that grooming Hanah over won't work and that her little play there failed.

What we saw at the end last night was the realisation that her minions are just not liked outside the house and all she can rely on to survive is them being less liked than she is.

She knows the week that she is put up against Lily she is toast.

I'm actually fed up of how Lily is clinging to her every word, they're both joint at the hip. Just think how the dynamic would change if Ali wasn't around... maybe Lily would stop thinking about nominations and the whole 'us against them ' mentality so much.

[vesavius]

I'm actually fed up of how Lily is clinging to her every word, they're both joint at the hip. Just think how the dynamic would change if Ali wasn't around... maybe Lily would stop thinking about nominations and the whole 'us against them ' mentality so much.

Imagine if you were Ali though... Knowing that your closest ally in there will also inevitably be your end but you can't even cut them loose.

[GoldHeart]

Imagine if you were Ali though... Knowing that your closest ally in there will also inevitably be your end but you can't even cut them loose.

Yeah it is kind of funny , she's using Lily....but Lily will also beat her in the game .

[Beso]

Thank you Maru the feeling has always been mutual.

[Garfie]

I completely understand you , but there's alot of double standards . I've seen comments mocking Khaled & Segun's sexuality....as if somehow they're both secretly in the closet or something, those same people then hit the roof when Ali's sexuality is being mocked & disrespected. I wish there was consistency.

I've seen it from all sides on here. I wish people would stop the sniping and getting personal .

I completely agree with you regarding this, and I’ve noticed there are even threads with such headings, and all based on no evidence or even any small sign.

The difference in the situation I responded to, though, was that it wasn’t focused purely on housemates, but on mocking LGBTQ+ people in general, and specifically targeted at a LGBTQ+ member of the forum. That’s something completely different and more serious.

[Maru]

Thank you Maru the feeling has always been mutual.

You're very welcome :love:

[Mystic Mock]

people can use terms in whatever way they want, this is a country of free speech. If something is not regarded as hate speech then it is fine. However, i do accept that laws differ between england and scotland in that regard now

Even hate speech should be allowed imo.

We're meant to be in a country with freedom of speech, and I truly do believe that only harassment or threatening behaviour are the only times that speech should be punished by the law.

[Mystic Mock]

I don’t think you’re wrong in this suggestion at all, as I believe both things can be true at the same time, in respect that people can have more than one motive for carrying out any particular action.

On an emotional level, Ali might well have felt genuine empathy for Hanah, whilst on an intellectual level she might have recognised that Hanah could help her feel a greater sense of security in adding numbers to her group. To add to that, on a sub-conscious level, her background in psychology might have triggered her analytical thinking, and taken her comfortably into the role of counselling or calming down a person in distress.

The truth is none of us truly know what another person’s motives might be, and ironically Ali might not even be fully aware of her own motives, or she might perceive them differently to others.

In just the same way, members of the forum will perceive Ali differently, depending on their own backgrounds, knowledge and experiences. Most of what is expressed on here in terms of assessing or judging a housemate’s character, is personal opinion based on individual perception, as that’s all it can be. It’s one of the reasons I always try to clearly present my opinions as just that, rather than stating them as fact. In reality, no-one can claim they are more right than anyone else, and as long as opinions are based on justifiable evidence, everyone’s is equally valid.

I agree with your points.

And I am trying to not see any of the Housemates as sub-Human like I could do a little bit in other Series, so I'm trying to see the good in all of the Housemates.

[Mystic Mock]

But Hanah is Muslim aswell , so was Izaaz .And Ali got on pretty well with Izaaz . Which actually makes her pyramid argument crumble.

Ali liked Izaaz because he had next to zero masculinity.

I honestly think that Ali and Dean need to sort through their issues with masculinity when they both leave the house, because they've got some serious issues in that area.

[Mystic Mock]

Thats why I dont believe it now..dont really believe the man thing either now because shes always rubbing Marcellos back in praise, even after her disgust at his I'll timed choice of language.

I think that we should be respecting Ali's sexuality.

[GoldHeart]

Ali liked Izaaz because he had next to zero masculinity.

I honestly think that Ali and Dean need to sort through their issues with masculinity when they both leave the house, because they've got some serious issues in that area.

Yeah Ali & Dean need counselling by looks of it , it's not healthy .

[Mystic Mock]

Yeah Ali & Dean need counselling by looks of it , it's not healthy .

Ali in particular should know better as a 38 year old.

[Maru]

Ali liked Izaaz because he had next to zero masculinity.

I honestly think that Ali and Dean need to sort through their issues with masculinity when they both leave the house, because they've got some serious issues in that area.

Phat chance. (I just wanted to use the word phat in a TiBB post...)

They probably don't think there is anything they're missing out on. Some people act like masculinity is everywhere and anywhere and it's like Vitamin D (no dick puns intended), just go outside and you'll get some... some of us are old enough to know better that what was considered masculine in prior times is not how it is described as now... and what's described of many categories like this are often cartoonish descriptions of what used to be elaborate/complex topics that can take a lifetime to explore and expand upon (especially in oneself). Meanings/impressions that aren't easily nailed down and oversimplified are easily butchered in this way and that's a cultish thing to do which is to take massively complex things such as the sex of a human being (how that is derived from personality-wise and expressed in the culture... not just influenced by culture... which is where people get stuck...) and condense it down to portions in a recipe, or in this case a pyramid... but Ali herself holds a minor in Cartoons, so no surprise there.

However, I do think it does it a disservice to oversimplify such things that one actually develops negative associations just hearing the word :laugh: ... I can't imagine hating or disliking something that is a substantial part of being a human being.. something that he is and that I think is expressed well by him... it's like hating the sun because it takes up too much time in your day and you're forced to wear sunscreen if you get too much of it... But because this is acceptable depth of dealing with complex topics in the mainstream, more and more take liberties with complex topics and giving haphazard depictions of things (while tossing in their own experiences to personify these matters). Some of that is just because of the limitations of communicating on complex topics while trying to relate that back to one's own experiences to those they are having important discussions... that's understandable... others, who knows what they're actually talking about... they become so sure they've got the whole thing bagged and can easily discuss it all in one go with a position of authority, that they basically have nothing at all to say other than "this one thing makes me mad" "This other thing is great, though... here's why we should do more of that..."... it's all preferences and doesn't scratch the surface as to how masculinity/femininity (and the balance of that) make our way of living so unique and special as just human beings...

For example, today... Dean says he doesn't "like" "masculinity". What does that actually mean (per Dean?). We don't know, but we can assume it's bad right. So we pull out our little Rolodex from within of all the things he's hating about masculinity... but then he adds toxic... did he have to add toxic?... is that not just a moniker for extra masculinity? :laugh: ... well, we know what many can say about that, but what does that actually mean? Does even just the term toxic mean the same thing to most people... we can ask 20 different people what something like that is to them and they can give an explanation for it and they can all come up with very different ideas that are more like a jello mold of mumbojumbo than something most people can work with and develop a more concise relationship to those things in themselves and in their life.. it's stuck around what it could mean to someone. So for me, these topics get discussed far too often in a very fickle manner...

[Mystic Mock]

Phat chance. (I just wanted to use the word phat in a TiBB post...)

They probably don't think there is anything they're missing out on. Some people act like masculinity is everywhere and anywhere and it's like Vitamin D (no dick puns intended), just go outside and you'll get some... some of us are old enough to know better that what was considered masculine in prior times is not how it is described as now... and what's described of many categories like this are often cartoonish descriptions of what used to be elaborate/complex topics that can take a lifetime to explore and expand upon (especially in oneself). Meanings/impressions that aren't easily nailed down and oversimplified are easily butchered in this way and that's a cultish thing to do which is to take massively complex things such as the sex of a human being (how that is derived from personality-wise and expressed in the culture... not just influenced by culture... which is where people get stuck...) and condense it down to portions in a recipe, or in this case a pyramid... but Ali herself holds a minor in Cartoons, so no surprise there.

However, I do think it does it a disservice to oversimplify such things that one actually develops negative associations just hearing the word :laugh: ... I can't imagine hating or disliking something that is a substantial part of being a human being.. something that he is and that I think is expressed well by him... it's like hating the sun because it takes up too much time in your day and you're forced to wear sunscreen if you get too much of it... But because this is acceptable depth of dealing with complex topics in the mainstream, more and more take liberties with complex topics and giving haphazard depictions of things (while tossing in their own experiences to personify these matters). Some of that is just because of the limitations of communicating on complex topics while trying to relate that back to one's own experiences to those they are having important discussions... that's understandable... others, who knows what they're actually talking about... they become so sure they've got the whole thing bagged and can easily discuss it all in one go with a position of authority, that they basically have nothing at all to say other than "this one thing makes me mad" "This other thing is great, though... here's why we should do more of that..."... it's all preferences and doesn't scratch the surface as to how masculinity/femininity (and the balance of that) make our way of living so unique and special as just human beings...

For example, today... Dean says he doesn't "like" "masculinity". What does that actually mean (per Dean?). We don't know, but we can assume it's bad right. So we pull out our little Rolodex from within of all the things he's hating about masculinity... but then he adds toxic... did he have to add toxic?... is that not just a moniker for extra masculinity? :laugh: ... well, we know what many can say about that, but what does that actually mean? Does even just the term toxic mean the same thing to most people... we can ask 20 different people what something like that is to them and they can give an explanation for it and they can all come up with very different ideas that are more like a jello mold of mumbojumbo than something most people can work with and develop a more concise relationship to those things in themselves and in their life.. it's stuck around what it could mean to someone. So for me, these topics get discussed far too often in a very fickle manner...

You've made a lot of good points tbh.

And tbf, I don't see myself as the most macho guy that's ever existed (although who knows from Ali & Dean's perspective) but it does look like to me that Dean has a very low threshold for masculine traits, if Marcello is "toxic masculinity" to him.

Tbf I'm gathering that he has had bad experiences with macho men (so I'm trying not to be too mean) but it's very hard not to be when he went at someone that has never been malicious towards Dean once in the house in Marcello.

And I did chuckle at "phat chance" btw. :laugh:

[BBXX]

There are many traits that define masculinity that make society thrive and it’s important to remember that. Dean just saying he doesn’t like masculinity is poor and over simplified to the point of being discriminatory.

Marcello has shown one behaviour I would consider a trait of toxic masculinity and that is his ongoing sexualisation of women, and objectification when they call him out “She called me out for being sexual and making her feel uncomfortable now she’s made me feel like a victim. Boo hoo.” He’s done this on. A few occasions and it’s extremely entitled.

But Marcello has also shown some of the best aspects of what a masculinity can be - he’s shown he has a caring and tender nature towards those in need, he’s pulling his weight in a house where others aren’t and providing for the HMs through food and when approached with conflict he portrays himself in a thoughtful and calm manner, unlike Dean who has an inability of controlling his emotions unlike any man in there which is, ironically, also a behaviour of toxic masculinity he hates so much.

Like Mock, I feel like its possible Dean has had bad experiences with very masculine men, and on a personal level I do understand how that creates a negative manifestation of a certain behaviour type, but to extrapolate that that masculinity as a general sense is essentially sexist. And then to level that at Marcello feels super unjust.

[vesavius]

Dean just saying he doesn’t like masculinity is poor and over simplified to the point of being discriminatory.


Indeed.

He freely admits that he discriminates on the outside and his attitude is toxic. Dean is a bigot who sees 'toxic masculinity' in everything that he just doesn't personally like.

But, he is the kind of dickhead that thinks being gay and wearing the latest off the peg hipster clone fashion makes a person inherently superior, so shouldn't be taken seriously I guess.

Wow this thread has seen a lot of different ground covered :joker:

[vesavius]

Ali in particular should know better as a 38 year old.

I would say that Dean and Ali both have a lot of daddy issues that need working out for sure.

[Mystic Mock]

There are many traits that define masculinity that make society thrive and it’s important to remember that. Dean just saying he doesn’t like masculinity is poor and over simplified to the point of being discriminatory.

Marcello has shown one behaviour I would consider a trait of toxic masculinity and that is his ongoing sexualisation of women, and objectification when they call him out “She called me out for being sexual and making her feel uncomfortable now she’s made me feel like a victim. Boo hoo.” He’s done this on. A few occasions and it’s extremely entitled.

But Marcello has also shown some of the best aspects of what a masculinity can be - he’s shown he has a caring and tender nature towards those in need, he’s pulling his weight in a house where others aren’t and providing for the HMs through food and when approached with conflict he portrays himself in a thoughtful and calm manner, unlike Dean who has an inability of controlling his emotions unlike any man in there which is, ironically, also a behaviour of toxic masculinity he hates so much.

Like Mock, I feel like its possible Dean has had bad experiences with very masculine men, and on a personal level I do understand how that creates a negative manifestation of a certain behaviour type, but to extrapolate that that masculinity as a general sense is essentially sexist. And then to level that at Marcello feels super unjust.

I do agree with you that Marcello has had certain moments with the female Housemates that I personally haven't liked, I won't lie on that.

I think that if Dean had've mentioned that I might've understood where he was coming from more, but attacking him for being masculine full stop like you've said yourself is kind of prejudiced in it's own weird sort of way.

Plus him pulling Marcello up on wanting to cook is incredibly personal in a different way to what I'm used to seeing on Big Brother full stop.

[Mystic Mock]

I would say that Dean and Ali both have a lot of daddy issues that need working out for sure.

Whatever the issues are they seriously need to try and fix it.

Especially Dean as he has an issue with a large portion of his own gender, that's seriously ****ed up.:joker:

[GoldHeart]

Ali in particular should know better as a 38 year old.

It's as if both Dean & Ali are waiting for the people they irrational dislike to screw up ,so they can go " see there I told you " . Of course it doesn't matter that they can throw around accusations,and be really nasty in how they treat them ... especially Dean last night.

They are going out of their way to be offended by people like Marcello,Sarah & Khaled.

[Garfie]

There are many traits that define masculinity that make society thrive and it’s important to remember that. Dean just saying he doesn’t like masculinity is poor and over simplified to the point of being discriminatory.

Marcello has shown one behaviour I would consider a trait of toxic masculinity and that is his ongoing sexualisation of women, and objectification when they call him out “She called me out for being sexual and making her feel uncomfortable now she’s made me feel like a victim. Boo hoo.” He’s done this on. A few occasions and it’s extremely entitled.

But Marcello has also shown some of the best aspects of what a masculinity can be - he’s shown he has a caring and tender nature towards those in need, he’s pulling his weight in a house where others aren’t and providing for the HMs through food and when approached with conflict he portrays himself in a thoughtful and calm manner, unlike Dean who has an inability of controlling his emotions unlike any man in there which is, ironically, also a behaviour of toxic masculinity he hates so much.

Like Mock, I feel like its possible Dean has had bad experiences with very masculine men, and on a personal level I do understand how that creates a negative manifestation of a certain behaviour type, but to extrapolate that that masculinity as a general sense is essentially sexist. And then to level that at Marcello feels super unjust.

:clap1::clap1::clap1: Great post!

Such an intelligent, rational and well-balanced comment, in which you emphasise the complexities of human beings, and thereby, quite logically, housemates too. Respect to you.

You clearly demonstrate that all housemates have both positive and negative character traits, and cannot merely be reduced into one-dimensional personalities, on which all future actions should be interpreted or judged.

There is no need for the polarisation that takes place when discussing housemates, or for the extremes of either intense hatred or unwavering support that emerges towards (or within housemates), depending on fixed views formed from just one or two characteristics.

You demonstrate such a great ability to stand back, and take an intelligent overview of housemates and situations. :thumbs:

[Garfie]

Indeed.

He freely admits that he discriminates on the outside and his attitude is toxic. Dean is a bigot who sees 'toxic masculinity' in everything that he just doesn't personally like.
:

Good point. This is where Dean can lack self-awareness and react from a place of very rigid thinking, thereby creating a negative impression of himself and of LGBTQ+ thinking.

Did you see L&L, in which Danny Beard, as someone who is LGBTQ+ himself, gently and sensitively addressed this with Dean? He expressed himself so effectively, and it seemed to genuinely make Dean stop and think.

I’ve not come across Danny Beard before his appearance on L&L but that guy, as a nightly guest on the show this week, has made so many intelligent points that have impressed me. Credit to him. What a great guy.

[vesavius]

Good point. This is where Dean can lack self-awareness and react from a place of very rigid thinking, thereby creating a negative impression of himself and of LGBTQ+ thinking.

Did you see L&L, in which Danny Beard, as someone who is LGBTQ+ himself, gently and sensitively addressed this with Dean? He expressed himself so effectively, and it seemed to genuinely make Dean stop and think.

I’ve not come across Danny Beard before his appearance on L&L but that guy, as a nightly guest on the show this week, has made so many intelligent points that have impressed me. Credit to him. What a great guy.

No, I haven't bothered with L&L since ITV started with BB.. I will make sure to have a look at this though.

[Beso]

Sick off having to change the name of this alliance.

[vesavius]

Sick off having to change the name of this alliance.

:joker::joker::joker:

[Garfie]

I would say that Dean and Ali both have a lot of daddy issues that need working out for sure.

I think we have to remember that Ali is on the Autistic Spectrum, and therefore her thinking and perceptions will be affected by that. It’s not a case of having issues, necessarily, but a case of having a condition.

Having said that, I would agree that she would benefit from working on her very negative and rigid thinking, which is something those with ASD - through no fault of their own - need to be guided and supported to do, as these are not pleasant or helpful thought processes to anyone on the Spectrum. In fact, this mindset will be exacerbated by stressful situations and create further stress in itself, which might be why Ali seems to feel so negative and unhappy.

Strangely enough, on L&L, Dean seemed to have very similar thought processes to Ali, in terms of his very rigid thinking and lack of self-awareness, as well as in his inability to recognise how to appropriately express himself in social situations. These are all Autistic traits, and the thought that went through my mind as I observed him, was that, if he was one of my students, I would certainly be trying to provide him with the benefits of assessments for this.

[vesavius]

I think we have to remember that Ali is on the Autistic Spectrum

Well.. She has self-diagnosed herself as being on the spectrum.

Strangely enough, on L&L, Dean seemed to have very similar thought processes to Ali, in terms of his very rigid thinking and lack of self-awareness, as well as in his inability to recognise how to appropriately express himself in social situations. These are all Autistic traits

I have to disagree here. Well, they might be autistic traits I agree (I DM for a social club playing D&D with Asperger kids) but having them doesn't make you necessarily autistic.

It's just my personal view based on what we have seen here but I don't see Ali as that or if she is it's so mild as to be irrelevant. That's just my personal view on the TV that we have seen though. I could be wrong I know.

[Garfie]

No, I haven't bothered with L&L since ITV started with BB.. I will make sure to have a look at this though.

I don’t rate all guests, but I find this guy to be really perceptive - he thinks about people and situations on a deeper level and is able to express his views clearly and intelligently.

He also seems to have a kindness and sensitivity that gives him a natural ability to approach others in a way that makes them feel comfortable, and also encourages them to be open to rethinking and reassessing their own views, where necessary.

He’s the sort of person I feel would be really interesting to sit down and have discussions with. Good on Danny Beard, whoever you are!

I’d definitely recommend taking a look, Vesavius.

[vesavius]

I don’t rate all guests, but I find this guy to be really perceptive - he thinks about people and situations on a deeper level and is able to express his views clearly and intelligently.

He also seems to have a kindness and sensitivity that gives him a natural ability to approach others in a way that makes them feel comfortable, and also encourages them to be open to rethinking and reassessing their own views, where necessary.

He’s the sort of person I feel would be really interesting to sit down and have discussions with. Good on Danny Beard, whoever you are!

I’d definitely recommend taking a look, Vesavius.

cool, will do :)

[Mystic Mock]

I don’t rate all guests, but I find this guy to be really perceptive - he thinks about people and situations on a deeper level and is able to express his views clearly and intelligently.

He also seems to have a kindness and sensitivity that gives him a natural ability to approach others in a way that makes them feel comfortable, and also encourages them to be open to rethinking and reassessing their own views, where necessary.

He’s the sort of person I feel would be really interesting to sit down and have discussions with. Good on Danny Beard, whoever you are!

I’d definitely recommend taking a look, Vesavius.

I agree with you on Danny Beard.

He puts his points across really well on the Show imo, it's actually quite shocking to see tbh.:joker:

[Garfie]

Well.. She has self-diagnosed herself as being on the spectrum.

I have to disagree here. Well, they might be autistic traits I agree (I DM for a social club playing D&D with Asperger kids) but having them doesn't make you necessarily autistic.

It's just my personal view based on what we have seen here but I don't see Ali as that or if she is it's so mild as to be irrelevant. That's just my personal view on the TV that we have seen though. I could be wrong I know.

I’m not sure why you’ve said her condition is self-diagnosed, as personally, I’ve seen nothing to suggest that, and I can definitely see strong Autistic traits in her.

Ali’s Autism is not so mild it is irrelevant - if it was irrelevant she wouldn’t have any traits or symptoms. Yet, she clearly does have symptoms, which have been repeatedly displayed by her misunderstanding of social settings and through her difficulty in functioning effectively and appropriately within them..

Given that my work is to identify, support and mentor students on the Autistic Spectrum, I can only come at this from my experience.

I think the important thing to recognise is that Autism is, by its very nature, a wide spectrum, and that is how it is officially understood. Therefore, if someone has Autistic traits, they have Autistic Spectrum Disorder -ASD. A diagnosis of ASD means you have some form of Autism, which can present in various different ways, depending on which traits a person has. Basically, therefore, if you have Autistic traits, you are, in fact, officially classed as Autistic.

Ali is more high-functioning and has a milder form of Autism, which basically means she is still Autistic, but that her traits would place her on the less impactful end of the Spectrum.

Asperger’s actually means a person has very high-functioning Autism - this diagnosis would mean that an individual is intellectually extremely able, and will generally be a high achiever academically and professionally. Their condition will impact on how they think, understand and function on a social basis. It is still a form of Autism though.

I can understand why some people perceive Ali in a certain way, and why she can be judged very negatively or harshly. I recognise myself that her Autistic traits are not enabling her to present herself well at all at times, and I certainly don’t agree with much of her thinking or her interpretations of others or situations.

Sadly, the vicious and distressing cycle she has found herself in, is not unusual for people with Autistic traits, and she definitely needs someone with understanding of her condition to help guide her out of certain ways of thinking and away from certain behaviours. I honestly believe she will perceive things very differently once she has had time to review the footage and her own behaviour. I think she will have some sadness and regrets, and will judge herself harshly.

Ironically, her behaviour is , in fact, emphasising the impact of her Autistic traits, rather than the irrelevancy of them.

[vesavius]

I’m not sure why you’ve said her condition is self-diagnosed

Because it's true.

But, like I say, I help run a social club for kids with Aspergers weekly, I am familiar with the whole thing and have done my reading.

[Garfie]

I agree with you on Danny Beard.

He puts his points across really well on the Show imo, it's actually quite shocking to see tbh.:joker:

I’m glad you’ve had the chance to see him. I ought to do him the justice of finding out more about him, rather than just referring to him as the guest or the guy in L&L! I really like him and think I’m a bit of a fan, in all honesty!

Are you able to see any LF tonight? I’ve clicked on it repeatedly, but it’s not taking me to BBLive as it usually does, but to other programmes instead, strangely. :conf:

[Mystic Mock]

I’m glad you’ve had the chance to see him. I ought to do him the justice of finding out more about him, rather than just referring to him as the guest or the guy in L&L! I really like him and think I’m a bit of a fan, in all honesty!

Are you able to see any LF tonight? I’ve clicked on it repeatedly, but it’s not taking me to BBLive as it usually does, but to other programmes instead, strangely. :conf:

I haven't watched any LF tonight, so I'm afraid I can't help you.

And tbh I don't know much about Danny Beard either.

[Zizu]

Well.. She has self-diagnosed herself as being on the spectrum.



I have to disagree here. Well, they might be autistic traits I agree (I DM for a social club playing D&D with Asperger kids) but having them doesn't make you necessarily autistic.

It's just my personal view based on what we have seen here but I don't see Ali as that or if she is it's so mild as to be irrelevant. That's just my personal view on the TV that we have seen though. I could be wrong I know.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20241102/9f9a9dad1dd8d503f7ff65785522a0fe.jpg


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20241102/97387eb4f93a6279da846cde25d5997d.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20241102/47344fb4aac4c97fcfe8d9ef9bf790be.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Zizu]

I’m not sure why you’ve said her condition is self-diagnosed, as personally, I’ve seen nothing to suggest that, and I can definitely see strong Autistic traits in her.

Ali’s Autism is not so mild it is irrelevant - if it was irrelevant she wouldn’t have any traits or symptoms. Yet, she clearly does have symptoms, which have been repeatedly displayed by her misunderstanding of social settings and through her difficulty in functioning effectively and appropriately within them..

Given that my work is to identify, support and mentor students on the Autistic Spectrum, I can only come at this from my experience.

I think the important thing to recognise is that Autism is, by its very nature, a wide spectrum, and that is how it is officially understood. Therefore, if someone has Autistic traits, they have Autistic Spectrum Disorder -ASD. A diagnosis of ASD means you have some form of Autism, which can present in various different ways, depending on which traits a person has. Basically, therefore, if you have Autistic traits, you are, in fact, officially classed as Autistic.

Ali is more high-functioning and has a milder form of Autism, which basically means she is still Autistic, but that her traits would place her on the less impactful end of the Spectrum.

Asperger’s actually means a person has very high-functioning Autism - this diagnosis would mean that an individual is intellectually extremely able, and will generally be a high achiever academically and professionally. Their condition will impact on how they think, understand and function on a social basis. It is still a form of Autism though.

I can understand why some people perceive Ali in a certain way, and why she can be judged very negatively or harshly. I recognise myself that her Autistic traits are not enabling her to present herself well at all at times, and I certainly don’t agree with much of her thinking or her interpretations of others or situations.

Sadly, the vicious and distressing cycle she has found herself in, is not unusual for people with Autistic traits, and she definitely needs someone with understanding of her condition to help guide her out of certain ways of thinking and away from certain behaviours. I honestly believe she will perceive things very differently once she has had time to review the footage and her own behaviour. I think she will have some sadness and regrets, and will judge herself harshly.

Ironically, her behaviour is , in fact, emphasising the impact of her Autistic traits, rather than the irrelevancy of them.


The same people keep repeating the same old crap about Ali .. all kinds of criticism will be repeated and exaggerated and portrayed as factual to put her in a bad light


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[vesavius]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20241102/9f9a9dad1dd8d503f7ff65785522a0fe.jpg




You basically linked an X post as your only actual evidence.

No.

link the actual source here or stop posting it.

[Zizu]

Because it's true.

But, like I say, I help run a social club for kids with Aspergers weekly, I am familiar with the whole thing and have done my reading.


I’d say that the other guy trumps your social club expertise if he is ACTUALLY paid to identify, support and mentor students on the Autistic Spectrum ffs


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[Beso]

The same people keep repeating the same old crap about Ali .. all kinds of criticism will be repeated and exaggerated and portrayed as factual to put her in a bad light


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

The public are speaking week in, week out. Her friends are gone. She has half a scruff bag left to cuddle in her bed, that shes always in if there isnt a task.(eyes on that this coming week)

Walk the talk, do the crime do the time...out the back door in a huff by Thursday is my prediction.

[Mystic Mock]

You basically linked an X post as your only actual evidence.

No.

link the actual source here or stop posting it.

In fairness, nobody has any proof that Ali's faking having Autism either.

I'm going to personally choose to take her at her word over something like having Autism, because I don't get what benefits she'll get out of lying about it, especially if she gets caught lying.

[GoldHeart]

Ali trying to fall out with Hanah , i think Hanah had another great HL show :).

[Zizu]

why are you even being allowed to continue to troll here like this? Go away.


I have been trying to explain things whilst you simply abuse me … yet I am in the wrong ??


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[Beso]

In fairness, nobody has any proof that Ali's faking having Autism either.

I'm going to personally choose to take her at her word over something like having Autism, because I don't get what benefits she'll get out of lying about it, especially if she gets caught lying.

Ahe has adhd mock..watch the first weeks highlights again. She says she self diagnosed herself with autistic traits.

I honestly wouldnt make that up mate.

[vesavius]

I don't believe that Ali would risk potentially getting caught out in such a lie.



It's not a provable lie though, is it?

It's a self-diagnosis.

She clearly understands this.

[Mystic Mock]

It's not a provable lie though, is it?

It's a self-diagnosis.

She clearly understands this.

I'm just personally not comfortable with questioning people's possible disorders.

[vesavius]

I'm just personally not comfortable with questioning people's possible disorders.

Actual medical disorders, no.

Self-diagnosed claimed disorders, yes.

But you do you, it's all good.

[GoldHeart]

I mean t would be pretty warped and messed up to lie about having a condition/ medical situation.. that is beyond her control. I agree she's manipulative and calculating, but i'm still going to believe she really has autism/ ADHD. Because why lie ?...even if it's from a sympathy woe is me tactic, people still need to be held accountable.

All this does is make us have more of an understanding , that her social cues etc will be different to others and she will react differently in situations. But she can still be criticised. And i am still seeing patterns in her i don't like, i know it must be difficult with that condition. But at the same time... i am not going to put her on a special pedestal.


But i will say i think some people may exaggerate or assume certain symptoms, like someone like Lily will probably be seen as someone with ADHD. But she's just acting like an irritating brat for the cameras and for attention:idc: .

[Beso]

She probably has goldheart bit it's the fact ahes self diagnosed the autism traits that get up my nose.

Take her job for example, wouldnt you, as a client of hers or a prisoner relying on her take of things for reports and stuff want to know officially the mental well being of whoever is doing your report?

[Beso]

Music for Alis eviction..

A comedy mash up of frankie goes to Hollywood's two tribes

[GoldHeart]

I've said i think her line of work is puzzling considering how she handles people, and situations quite badly at times. I do wonder how she actually is in a professional setting.... outside of BB . Imagine a fly on the wall documentary about that.

I wonder if she's mis diagnosed a few people, and misread things, which ok we're all human and make mistakes. But she likes to psycho analyse alot , and she talks in riddles.. as if she knows what she's talking about most of the time.

[Beso]

The way she says things and what's shes saying sounds as though it makes sense. But what we see simply contradicts it all.

[GoldHeart]

The way she says things and what's shes saying sounds as though it makes sense. But what we see simply contradicts it all.

Which is why i cannot support or take to her .

Dean was doing the same thing, but he was alot more horrible and nasty. And he was like her lap dog in a way.

[Mystic Mock]

The thing is, GoldHeart, any claims that Ali is lying should be evidenced, or else it’s nothing more than an unsubstantiated allegation - no more than an assumption. If there is evidence of this, why not share it to prove the allegation is true? That’s what makes no sense to me, as the argument could be so easily resolved. shrug:

And your second paragraph is so important. Just because someone has a certain condition, which Ali is showing all the signs she does, it doesn’t mean you have to like them or that they can’t be criticised if they behave in an inappropriate way. I have even made criticisms of some of Ali’s actions myself, and I certainly don’t agree with all her judgements of other housemates and situations.

To me, it’s about doing so with some understanding and sensitivity rather than going to the extremes and making hate-filled or offensive comments that could be hurtful for other forum members and get very close to crossing certain lines. It’s the somewhat aggressive and attacking approach that I feel is unnecessary.

And I would extend that to other housemates too, whether it be Marcello, Hanah, Khaled, etc, who have also been victim to similar extreme attacks.

I personally think that both Marcello and Ali have had some OTT attacks on here throughout the series from some people.

I get it tbf as it can be very easy to de-humanize a Housemate that you don't like, I have been pretty guilty of that myself in the past BB's.

What extreme attacks has Khaled had though, isn't he just a popular dude?:laugh:

[Ammi]

…I don’t know where ‘self diagnosis’ with Ali came from tbh…I know that she had a conservation with some housemates in the early days and explaining her condition…she’s diagnosed apparently with ADHD and displays Autistic traits …that so far as I know is her diagnosis and condition…which would mean that she’s on the Autism spectrum because of whatever traits she displays…I mean, I don’t know what of that is self diagnosed, that she said …oh, I think that I might be ..etc…?…I’ve never understood the ‘self diagnosis’ bit and I’ve missed where that was specifically said….