Mickey gets first CBB warning for homophobic Remarks

[Zizu]

Then why did he tell her he’d make her straight then. Open your eyes and just admit the blokes an ignorant creep.


That is a well used often jokey line many blokes will say to or about lesbians

It goes back years .. blokes in pubs will say similar things when someone mentioned such and such was a lesbian

It a macho thing … certainly never to be taken seriously

[Good King Glennceslas]

That is a well used often jokey line many blokes will say to or about lesbians

It goes back years .. blokes in pubs will say similar things when someone mentioned such and such was a lesbian

It a macho thing … certainly never to be taken seriously

That’s your problem, you don’t see that it’s offensive.

[Zizu]

That’s your problem, you don’t see that it’s offensive.


Well it’s not my view or problem

I have clearly explained the reason why some guys use that ‘line’ above

[Parmy]

That’s your problem, you don’t see that it’s offensive.

The best jokes are offensive ones.

[Jessica.]

Stuff like this is why cis straight men are absolutely terrifying to a huge amount of people, they never have to take accountability.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

yes people are terrified by humour

I still have nightmares about Laurel and Hardy


:laugh2:

[GlitterUK]

I am shocked at how he was only warned. If this was a young guy celeb in his 20's would it have the same outcome?!

He should be evicted.

[White Christmas]

The best jokes are offensive ones.

100% agree with that. :joker:

[Good King Glennceslas]

Stuff like this is why cis straight men are absolutely terrifying to a huge amount of people, they never have to take accountability.

They’re gross

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Mickey has shown himself to be the most real and caring person in thee in just 4 episodes

That is pretty impressive even for a Celeb BB

:clap2:

[vesavius]

They’re gross

Being heterophobic is no morally different than being homophobic. Bigotry is bigotry.

We can do better than this, surely?

[Parmy]

Stuff like this is why cis straight men are absolutely terrifying to a huge amount of people, they never have to take accountability.

Tell us an average drag joke

[Good King Glennceslas]

Being heterophobic is no morally different than being homophobic. Bigotry is bigotry.

We can do better than this, surely?

I’m only joking!

That’s how it works right

[Cherry Christmas]

He saw Bots thread about it being quiet and ramped things up

In many ways Bots is the real villain here

kindMod - time to hit Bots with...

https://airsoft-forums.uk/uploads/monthly_2018_09/1485988295_BanHammermaintainingstandards.png.7f10a 84d0342f9bfc93b26135a5719d4.png

:joker:


Its been so quiet we are still talking about this :shrug:

Surely we need to discuss why Jack got so many noms

[Christmas Dynasnow]

:joker:


Its been so quiet we are still talking about this :shrug:

Surely we need to discuss why Jack got so many noms

I was a bit shocked

but when I learned about his 3 types of perfume he sprays on himself then I thought

get this cis milksop out and get him out NOW

:oh:

[Zizu]

:joker:


Its been so quiet we are still talking about this :shrug:

Surely we need to discuss why Jack got so many noms


For wearing too much aftershave

For not enjoying being touched or held by Chesney ( who can’t keep his hands off Michael ?!?)

For looking like the Joker ?!? - What the fcuk Patsy ..

For getting involved in conversations from the couch away from the others .. thanks Trish

[Cherry Christmas]

I was a bit shocked

but when I learned about his 3 types of perfume he sprays on himself then I thought

get this cis milksop out and get him out NOW

:oh:

when the camera panned to the 15 bottles on his bedside table...:joker: classic BB

I want to know what Patsys nom was about was she trying to create an iconic BB line because if she was it fell flat :laugh:

[In the Drunk Tank]

:joker:


Its been so quiet we are still talking about this :shrug:

Surely we need to discuss why Jack got so many noms

And I think basically every one of them was for a different reason which is quite impressive

[vesavius]

I’m only joking!

That’s how it works right

Not sure, I don't really have a clue to what you are trying to say.

Is it that bigots often try and hide their ignorant hate behind jokes? Because that's quite the self report if so.

It pretty much destroys any moral high ground that you might try and claim in future when you try to judge and condemn others.

[Good King Glennceslas]

Not sure, I don't really have a clue to what you are trying to say.

Is it that bigots often try and hide their ignorant hate behind jokes? Because that's quite the self report if so.

It pretty much destroys any moral high ground that you might try and claim in future when you try and judge and condemn others.

It was sarcasm

[vesavius]

It was sarcasm

So, ok, then it IS ok to say bigoted things as jokes then? Like Mickey did and like you are doing?

I am just trying to understand the rules of your game.

[Jessica.]

I’m only joking!

That’s how it works right

:joker:

[Jessica.]

Being heterophobic is no morally different than being homophobic. Bigotry is bigotry.

We can do better than this, surely?

Heterophobia doesn't exist, heteros aren't a minority group.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

And I think basically every one of them was for a different reason which is quite impressive

By the end of the noms I went from having no opinion of him to despising him with every fibre of my body

:joker:

[Ray.]

By the end of the noms I went from having no opinion of him to despising him with every fibre of my body

:joker:

I was the opposite, I went from mostly indifferent to kind of intrigued. :laugh: Dark humour, sitting coiled like a snake, etc. They painted an interesting sounding picture of someone the cameras haven't been paying much attention to.

[In the Drunk Tank]

By the end of the noms I went from having no opinion of him to despising him with every fibre of my body

:joker:

Same here haha but also feeling a bit sorry for him because it seems that almost everything he does is annoying without him realising any of it, I think he'll be really shocked to see the noms

[Livia]

That is not part of the definition of the word.

I guess if you make up your own definitions though anything can be made to disappear.

Why is it the case that it's always the people that signal how much they are against bigotry and hate with profile pics and flags always end up to be the worst for both? It's consistently true.

So true....

[Zizu]

I was the opposite, I went from mostly indifferent to kind of intrigued. :laugh: Dark humour, sitting coiled like a snake, etc. They painted an interesting sounding picture of someone the cameras haven't been paying much attention to.


Agreed

[BBXX]

It’s not up to straight people to define what is and isn’t homophobic and how offended gay people should be by homophobic jokes.

They are of course allowed an opinion, but it would be so much classier and wise to maybe just listen to why it’s offensive and learn from others lived experiences that you haven’t, and will never, go through.

It takes a special kind of ignorance and ego to play down homophobia and a gay person’s reaction to it when you’ve no experience of it.

This place, honestly.

[BBXX]

It’s not up to gay people to define what is and isn’t heterophobic and how offended straight people should be by heterophobic jokes.

They are of course allowed an opinion, but it would be so much classier and wise to maybe just listen to why it’s offensive and learn from others lived experiences that you haven’t, and will never, go through.

It takes a special kind of ignorance and ego to play down heterophobia and a straight person’s reaction to it when you’ve no experience of it.

This place, honestly.

I don’t really disagree. Of course due to the lack of any kind of historical anti-straight discourse, persecution, laws, removal of rights, bullying it’s low on the totem pole of “this is an issue” but yes if you feel it’s heterophobic to say cis straight men are seen as threatening then who am I to tell you you’re wrong (and I didn’t).

You see how it works? You can educate me on what you as a straight person offends your straightness and I will learn from it and not pretend to know better without ever having lived a life as a straight person. Apart from the first 20 years of my life, of course.

[Ray.]

vesavius' posts shouldn't be being deleted. They're being perfectly respectful and arguing in good faith. A mod disagreeing with them shouldn't enter into it.

[vesavius]

It’s not up to straight people to define what is and isn’t homophobic and how offended gay people should be by homophobic jokes.

It takes a special kind of ignorance and ego to play down homophobia and a gay person’s reaction to it when you’ve no experience of it.


I mean, gay people tell me that I shouldn't be offended by heterophobia and they tell me that it actually doesn't even exist.

I guess if you are going to recognise that as ignorance as well and tell those types to listen and learn then we can reach a compromise and agree. :)

(sorry, I tried to delete my previous post but you got to the quote button really fast haha)

[BBXX]

I agree. That post should stay up, it’s beautifully worded.

[vesavius]

vesavius' posts shouldn't be being deleted. They're being perfectly respectful and arguing in good faith. A mod disagreeing with them shouldn't enter into it.

To be fair, I deleted one or two recently myself, because I saw the prior ones being taken down and didn't want to offend the powers that be with views that might not be allowed here.

It's fine, thanks for saying though :)

[BBXX]

I mean, gay people tell me that I shouldn't be offended by heterophobia and they tell me that it actually doesn't even exist.

I guess if you are going to recognise that as ignorance as well and tell those types to listen and learn then we can reach a compromise and agree.

You want me to call out other gay people denying heterophobia and then you will agree that straight people shouldn’t comment on what is and isn’t homophobia and shouldn’t comment on why should and shouldn’t offend gay people despite the fact that’s all you’ve done on this thread.

It’s almost like you didn’t even believe what you were saying to begin with and just said it to be controversial if your opinion is that easily swayed.

Good to know though - and absolutely. Nobody should tell you heterophobia doesn’t exist and you shouldn’t be offended by it.

[vesavius]

I don’t really disagree. Of course due to the lack of any kind of historical anti-straight discourse, persecution, laws, removal of rights, bullying it’s low on the totem pole of “this is an issue”

I would disagree that there hasn't been anti-straight discourse, erasure, and even bullying over the last decade

I pay attention to a lot of hard left and hardline LGBQT+ media and see it in real time, and that's without the secondary effects of it on mainstream society.

I guess that we get to decide what goes where on our own totem poles and what is an issue or not. No one group gets to dictate what is an issue for another, which I guess is at the heart of what your original point was.

[vesavius]

You want me to call out other gay people denying heterophobia and then you will agree that straight people shouldn’t comment on what is and isn’t homophobia and shouldn’t comment on why should and shouldn’t offend gay people despite the fact that’s all you’ve done on this thread.

Good to know though - and absolutely. Nobody should tell you heterophobia doesn’t exist and you shouldn’t be offended by it.

I apologise, I don't really understand what you are saying in your first paragraph.

A big part of what I am saying really is don't expect me to listen to moral lectures from people in this thread that have demonstrated themselves to be bigots.

I am not sure why you have seemingly gone on the attack (?) though... I am happy to have a civil non hostile conversation.

[BBXX]

I would disagree that there hasn't been anti-straight discourse, erasure, and even bullying over the last decade

I pay attention to a lot of hard left and hardline LGBQT+ media and see it in real time, and that's without the secondary effects of it on mainstream society.

I guess that we get to decide what goes on our own totem poles and what is an issue or not. No one group gets to dictate what is an issue for another, which I guess is at the heart of what your original point was.

Yes, if you really feel like heterophobia is an issue it’s not up to me, a gay person, to say it’s not.

I might suggest our issues aren’t quite the same - I worry about holding hands with my husband and have to see if it’s safe for me to travel to a specific country - but they’re my issues, and many millions others. Not yours. You have straight-erasure to contend with, I certainly don’t . Nobody has ever tried to erase my straightness.

[Jessica.]

I would disagree that there hasn't been anti-straight discourse, erasure, and even bullying over the last decade

I pay attention to a lot of hard left and hardline LGBQT+ media and see it in real time, and that's without the secondary effects of it on mainstream society.

I guess that we get to decide what goes on our own totem poles and what is an issue or not. No one group gets to dictate what is an issue for another, which I guess is at the heart of what your original point was.

The thing is, due to certain parts of the Internet and podcasts becoming way more widespread, more straight men have been radicalised or gained the confidence to be more outspoken against women, you see it so often these days and it's very scary so as a result of that you see a lot more people countering it too with negativity about men.

[vesavius]

Yes, if you really feel like heterophobia is an issue it’s not up to me, a gay person, to say it’s not.

I might suggest our issues aren’t quite the same - I worry about holding hands with my husband and have to see if it’s safe for me to travel to a specific country - but they’re my issues, and many millions others. Not yours. You have straight-erasure to contend with, I certainly don’t . Nobody has ever tried to erase my straightness.

No, they aren't the same, I agree, but it's not up to you to decide that mine are lesser, which is what we are saying right? We both agree on that?

As for travelling to those other countries being dangerous to LBGT... I agree that's awful. But that's down to very clear cultural and religious factors in those places and I am really talking about the UK.

[Livia]

vesavius, you've become one of my all-time favourite posters.

[BBXX]

No, they aren't the same, I agree, but it's not up to you to decide that mine are lesser, which is what we are saying right? We both agree on that?

As for travelling to those other countries being dangerous to LBGT... I agree that's awful. But that's down to very clear cultural and religious factors in those places and I am really talking about the UK.

People still get attacked in the UK for being gay. It’s not a gay utopia and as a result there are things straight people absolutely will take for granted that gay people have to not do or at least risk-assess.

I am not saying your issues are lesser, it’s not my place to. I would say though that the ratio of straight people pretending to be gay because it is safer for them to do so compared to the opposite will be significantly imbalanced. For a reason.

[vesavius]

The thing is, due to certain parts of the Internet and podcasts becoming way more widespread, more straight men have been radicalised or gained the confidence to be more outspoken against women, you see it so often these days and it's very scary so as a result of that you see a lot more people countering it too with negativity about men.

Yes, a lot of straight men have been radicalised, but largely in a direct response to the radicalisation and growth of a heterophobic misandrist hard left.

It's often a direct pushback to the demonisation of straight men that we have seen grow for the last 20 years or so.

Idiots like Tate weren't born in a vacuum... They were created as a reaction to a dominant hardline Leftist anti white male ideology and it's cultural impact.

There was a point, probably around the mid 00s, that a silent ideological decision was made for our course of travel... Equality and fair play to all going forward, or revenge. Sadly, revenge was chosen and here we are.

I wish that we had all just chosen the first option.

[vesavius]

vesavius, you've become one of my all-time favourite posters.

:love::love::love:

[vesavius]

People still get attacked in the UK for being gay. It’s not a gay utopia and as a result there are things straight people absolutely will take for granted that gay people have to not do or at least risk-assess.

I am not saying your issues are lesser, it’s not my place to. I would say though that the ratio of straight people pretending to be gay because it is safer for them to do so compared to the opposite will be significantly imbalanced. For a reason.

They do, I agree. And it's getting worse again as demographics change. This is a terrible thing, I agree.

I am not erasing gay issues, I am saying that hetero issues also exist. They may be different, but they exist and they are no less important.

[BBXX]

They do, I agree. And it's getting worse again as demographics change. This is a terrible thing, I agree.

I am not erasing gay issues, I am saying that hetero issues also exist. They may be different, but they exist and they are no less important.

That’s fine but I’ll be honest, a lot of the posts in this thread HAVE been erasing gay issues, or at least the gay issue that happened in CBB this week, which is what my original point was about really.

[Parmy]

:joker:


Its been so quiet we are still talking about this :shrug:

Surely we need to discuss why Jack got so many noms

:joker:

[vesavius]

That’s fine but I’ll be honest, a lot of the posts in this thread HAVE been erasing gay issues, or at least the gay issue that happened in CBB this week, which is what my original point was about really.

I haven't seen them doing that.

I do think though that there is a natural pushback against the weaponisation of being offended and the use of fake offence being used as a social currency in order to elevate one group above another. maybe that's what you are seeing.

I think a lot of people are just bored of it.... Bored of the Reddit and X lot brigading and bullying over the smallest thing.

Are the vast majority really offended by Mickey's ill judged jokes? I am not saying they were kind or appropriate, I wouldn't have made them myself, but are people really hurt by a 72 year old codger's nonsense? Or is it all mostly just performative pearl-clutching and the gleeful chance to dogpile a celebrity and beat them down?

To those genuinely offended by what Mickey said, that's fine, I respect that, they have that right, I understand, but so many are full of ****.

[Zizu]

I haven't seen them doing that.

I do think though that there is a natural pushback against the weaponisation of being offended and the use of fake offence being used as a social currency in order to elevate one group above another. maybe that's what you are seeing.

I think a lot of people are just bored of it.... Bored of the Reddit and X lot brigading and bullying over the smallest thing.

Are the vast majority really offended by Mickey's ill judged jokes? I am not saying they were kind or appropriate, I wouldn't have made them myself, but are people really hurt by a 72 year old codger's nonsense? Or is it all mostly just performative pearl-clutching and the gleeful chance to dogpile a celebrity and beat them down?

To those genuinely offended by what Mickey said, that's fine, I respect that, they have that right, I understand, but so many are full of ****.


[emoji106]

[Jessica.]

Yes, a lot of straight men have been radicalised, but largely in a direct response to the radicalisation and growth of a heterophobic hard left.

It's often a direct pushback to the demonisation of straight men that we have seen grow for the last 20 years or so.

Idiots like Tate weren't born in a vacuum... They were created as a reaction to a dominant hardline Leftist anti white male ideology and it's cultural impact.

There was a point, probably around the mid 00s, that a silent ideological decision was made for our course of travel... Equality and fair play to all going forward, or revenge. Sadly, revenge was chosen and here we are.

I wish that we had all just chosen the first option.

Incorrect

[BBXX]

I haven't seen them doing that.

I do think though that there is a natural pushback against the weaponisation of being offended and the use of fake offence being used as a social currency in order to elevate one group above another. maybe that's what you are seeing.


Many have done it, and so have you. Calling it “woke liberal” and JoJo was just offended because she was thin skinned. Instead of just saying what it is: inappropriate. By shifting the focus onto the reaction and suggesting it wasn’t something to be offended by automatically trivialises what he said and my point as a straight person, you don’t really get it.

As for the second point, again, straight people don’t get to decide what is and isn’t weaponisation of offence and then when it crosses their line into that give “pushback”. By suggesting that you’re essentially insinuating that gay people are allowed to object to homophobia but only on the parameters set by straight people. Anything louder than a quiet chant and there will be pushback, and you seem to be suggesting that pushback is justifiable.

Gay people have been fed threads of freedom and acceptance over decades and now they finally have hold of the end of the rope certain members of society have decided they’ve been given too much.

And I know this is coming across as me solely going for you, I don’t meant it to, it’s just you are the only one talking to me haha.

[Parmy]

I think he's the only one in there that can take a joke.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Gay people have been fed threads of freedom and acceptance over decades and now they finally have hold of the end of the rope.

gurl please

[vesavius]

Many have done it, and so have you. Calling it “woke liberal” and JoJo was just offended because she was thin skinned.

How does 'woke liberal' erase anything? It is simply a label to separate modern 'progressive' authoritarian liberal from mainstream 90s liberal.

It doesn't erase anything.

I'm actually a JoJo fan, but she is incredibly brittle shelled at times due to her upbringing. Woke 'liberalism' definitely also plays into this because it as an ideology teaches that there is social power in being seen as the victim. People are more complex than just boiling them down to 'gay or 'straight'.

If that kind of honest discussion is 'erasure' to you, then I guess we are never gonna agree on that so ok.


As for the second point, again, straight people don’t get to decide what is and isn’t weaponisation of offence and then when it crosses their line into that give “pushback”.

Straight people are under no obligation to allow themselves to be bullied into silence by the weaponisation of fake offence.

As you said yourself before, they are allowed an opinion. Gay people don't get to silence or control them, any more than the LGBT+ community should be silenced.

Whether you think it's 'classy' or not is another matter, but you are allowed to think whatever you want about it ofc


Gay people have been fed threads of freedom and acceptance over decades and now they finally have hold of the end of the rope certain members of society have decided they’ve been given too much.

This is untrue.

It's not that they have 'too much', it's how a lot of the more radicalised side of LGBT+ choose to use it that causes many on the receiving end of it to push back.

Many now have the rope and just want to use it to whip straight people with it as a revenge. I don't blame many straight people for not wanting to put up with that.

[Merry Mockmas]

Stuff like this is why cis straight men are absolutely terrifying to a huge amount of people, they never have to take accountability.

The sweeping statements like this one don't help either though.

It can come across as man bashing imo.

[Merry Mockmas]

Mickey has shown himself to be the most real and caring person in thee in just 4 episodes

That is pretty impressive even for a Celeb BB

:clap2:

Are you being serious?:joker:

[Oliver_W]

Can we reach a compromise - he really doesn't seem like a homophobic person, but it was a homophobic remark ... even it was a joke/banter, which can be offensive if not played right.

[Merry Mockmas]

Heterophobia doesn't exist, heteros aren't a minority group.

Tbf any group can face prejudice, including straight people for being straight.

Granted I don't believe Glenn to be Hetrophobic, and obviously it's nowhere near as prevalent as Homophobia.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Tbf any group can face prejudice, including straight people for being straight.

Granted I don't believe Glenn to be Hetrophobic, and obviously it's nowhere near as prevalent as Homophobia.

really?

when was the last time you came across homophobia as you go about your daily life?

if ever?

[Merry Mockmas]

The thing is, due to certain parts of the Internet and podcasts becoming way more widespread, more straight men have been radicalised or gained the confidence to be more outspoken against women, you see it so often these days and it's very scary so as a result of that you see a lot more people countering it too with negativity about men.

I agree with you on this.

I don't know what kind of solution we as a society can come up with to combat the radicalisation that's happening to both men and women either, without negatively impacting free speech.

[Cherry Christmas]

Mickey naming Daley and Danny as his favs in there..... that should shut down the homophobia debate surely, it is possible not to like a gay person and not be homophobic, that said I think he and Jo Jo have resolved their issues now so not sure why its being flogged in here ....the horse is dead

[Merry Mockmas]

Yes, a lot of straight men have been radicalised, but largely in a direct response to the radicalisation and growth of a heterophobic misandrist hard left.

It's often a direct pushback to the demonisation of straight men that we have seen grow for the last 20 years or so.

Idiots like Tate weren't born in a vacuum... They were created as a reaction to a dominant hardline Leftist anti white male ideology and it's cultural impact.

There was a point, probably around the mid 00s, that a silent ideological decision was made for our course of travel... Equality and fair play to all going forward, or revenge. Sadly, revenge was chosen and here we are.

I wish that we had all just chosen the first option.

I also agree with this.

I do think that a lot of men feel attacked by the Entertainment industry and the media in general, which is why people like Trump, Tate, Farage, and Tommy Robinson have gained such huge followings within the male demographic (especially white straight men.)

To be balanced though, people like Anita Sarkeesian was only able to garner such a big following, and radicalized some Feminists was because those women didn't feel like that they were welcomed into certain activities that were dominated by straight men.

Basically it keeps going full circle where both sides keep trying to outdo each other with how hateful they can be towards the other gender.

[vesavius]

I also agree with this.

I do think that a lot of men feel attacked by the Entertainment industry and the media in general, which is why people like Trump, Tate, Farage, and Tommy Robinson have gained such huge followings within the male demographic (especially white straight men.)

To be balanced though, people like Anita Sarkeesian was only able to garner such a big following, and radicalized some Feminists was because those women didn't feel like that they were welcomed into certain activities that were dominated by straight men.

Basically it keeps going full circle where both sides keep trying to outdo each other with how hateful they can be towards the other gender.

Gosh, I had forgotten about Sarkeesian... :joker:

That's going back to the Gamergate days! GG was never about that though, tbh, but that's a whole conversation in itself, probably not for here haha

[Merry Mockmas]

Can we reach a compromise - he really doesn't seem like a homophobic person, but it was a homophobic remark ... even it was a joke/banter, which can be offensive if not played right.

I think that's fair.

[Merry Mockmas]

really?

when was the last time you came across homophobia as you go about your daily life?

if ever?

I watch Melonie Mac videos for starters.:laugh:

[Christmas Dynasnow]

I watch Melonie Mac videos for starters.:laugh:

So never in your day to day life me neither

its almost like its been weaponised by activists....

:skull:

[vesavius]

Can we reach a compromise - he really doesn't seem like a homophobic person, but it was a homophobic remark ... even it was a joke/banter, which can be offensive if not played right.

I sincerely appreciate the olive branch, but I just think 'homophobic' is just so badly overused.

In the end, I guess the only person on the end of his words was JoJo and she has clearly made peace with it and moved on, so at this point I am happy to as well.

[Good King Glennceslas]

So never in your day to day life me neither

its almost like its been weaponised by activists....

:skull:

You’re not gay

[Merry Mockmas]

So never in your day to day life me neither

its almost like its been weaponised by activists....

:skull:

I'm practically a shut-in.:joker:

[Merry Mockmas]

Gosh, I had forgotten about Sarkeesian... :joker:

That's going back to the Gamergate days! GG was never about that though, tbh, but that's a whole conversation in itself, probably not for here haha

I do understand that it is a complicated topic tbf.

[Yuki Maru Hoshi]

Regarding Mickey, it's very possible he says something so much worse and we will have something new to ruminate about shortly, so I think if there's a hole to be dug, it can certainly be dug a bit deeper... he alone has that capability...

For Jojo, it will be interesting if their earlier interaction will hold weight over his future behavior in his house... whether he evolves or devolves...
And I think basically every one of them was for a different reason which is quite impressive

That's the true advantage to keeping Jack. He has so much more potential to annoy the hell out of HMs and some of us will root for it, I think... :laugh: If he makes it to the Final and places somewhere up top, that will be quite the feat.

[BBXX]

How does 'woke liberal' erase anything? It is simply a label to separate modern 'progressive' authoritarian liberal from mainstream 90s liberal.

It doesn't erase anything.

I'm actually a JoJo fan, but she is incredibly brittle shelled at times due to her upbringing. Woke 'liberalism' definitely also plays into this because it as an ideology teaches that there is social power in being seen as the victim. People are more complex than just boiling them down to 'gay or 'straight'.

If that kind of honest discussion is 'erasure' to you, then I guess we are never gonna agree on that so ok.

Your comment originally suggested that Mickey made his comments in the current climate of “woke liberalism” and so your insinuation is that JoJo took offence to gain social power, rather than because the comments were actually just offensive. That is undermining the homophobic remarks.


Straight people are under no obligation to allow themselves to be bullied into silence by the weaponisation of fake offence.


I agree in theory, but you yourself are deciding what offence is fake and what isn’t and then playing victim based off of your own made up benchmark, which isn’t actually reality.

If there is proof the offence is actually fake then fair enough, as that’s just a form of manipulation and is wrong but my point is you are setting a level of what you deem to be offence worthy and what isn’t and anything that veers into the “what isn’t” is then categorised as “weaponised fake offence”. My point is, as a straight person, that is not your level to set.

I think we should rationalise this further: your version of straight people being silenced extends to: “we can’t say what we want without repercussions to the offensive thing we said anymore”. In this case it’s that Mickey can’t joke about tying a young woman up and ‘changing’ her sexuality, he isn’t allowed to refer to her as ‘the lesbian’ and that he can’t call her a fag. Taking offence to that is either using it to gain social power, is being thin skinned or is just fake and is simultaneously silencing straight people.

Whereas gay people being silenced is: literally living as a different person short term or long term for actual safety or so straight people aren’t uncomfortable with gay people just existing.

For example, I knew I was gay from an early age and pretended to be straight until around 20. It was so ****ing exhausting, honestly. When I came out; I was the only gay guy in my friendship group. How open do you think my friends were in hearing me talk about my attraction to men; who in the bar I thought was good looking, my sex life? Despite me hearing it all from them about women since mid-teens. Now all is good, but even when out initially my straight mates just didn't want to hear about my gayness: I was still being silenced by straight people who couldn’t handle hearing from me all the things they had been guilty of speaking to me about. It was ****ing repressing even after 10 years of knowingly being in the closet and hiding every quirk about me I thought might be a ‘tell’ in exposing me as a gay boy.

Sorry you can’t say fag anymore without it being called homophobic though, I guess.

It's not that they have 'too much', it's how a lot of the more radicalised side of LGBT+ choose to use it that causes many on the receiving end of it to push back.

Many now have the rope and just want to use it to whip straight people with it as a revenge. I don't blame many straight people for not wanting to put up with that.

I am not going to deny there aren’t radicalised members of the LGBT community; that would be stupid and dishonest. But I do think there needs to be a bit of honesty here about the power imbalance that each group of people have at either end of the spectrum.

At the end of the day, LGBT people make up 3% of the population. Let’s say for instance a third of that are super hardcore radicalised LGBT people (which is generous), you’re talking 1% of the worlds population. They can’t really illicit much change and certainly not change that makes it hard to be straight. Not change that invalidates your marriage, gets you killed, changes the way you interact with your partner in public, limits your travel, changes the language you use to hide your sexuality just incase.

On the flip side, the extreme on the other end of the spectrum will make up far more of the population and yield far more power. Look at the US right now, rights are being removed for trans people (and for women, but that’s a whole different subject), books are being banned to quell education and representation and quite honestly it wouldn’t surprise me if they do to gay marriage what they did with abortion and have it decided on a state by state basis which would end up invalidating marriages between gay people.

The change that can and has and will effect gay people due to the radicalised right is far more dangerous than any radicalised LGBT person can do purely by the fact that straight people make up 97% of the population. Their straightness is never ever going to be under actual threat through the actions of the 1% of extreme LGBT people.

It’s been good to debate with you as always but I feel like I cant continue this conversation without repeating myself, though I will happily read your reply. I appreciate your time in this exchange. Have a good day.

[BBXX]

So never in your day to day life me neither

its almost like its been weaponised by activists....

:skull:

BREAKING NEWS: Straight man who has never faced homophobia claims homophobia doesn’t exist.

In other news: Blind man who has never seen grass claims grass is fake news.

[Ammi]

…not to detract and derail what’s a very interesting sharing of opinions between BBXX and Vesavius in offering different perspectives…the initial remarks that caused upset and offence from Mickey…?..were not only said to a gay person, the offensive term wasn’t just directed at a gay person…it was all pointedly directed at a gay female and the ‘tie you up’ comment was definitely something that many females would find very disturbing and wouldn’t find any ‘lightness of joking’ in at all in any world but most definitely in this current world…and I do feel that’s often forgotten or overshadowed with females…so I do think this all quite layered because no such remarks were made to any male of the house…only a young female…

…I was watching a vid of a bonding chat with JoJo and Mickey/discussing their tattoos…and it was all very sweet and it made me think…I do think that Mickey maybe struggles in relating to females other than on a ‘physical attraction/sexual’ type basis…I don’t know if that’s true, that’s just my own pondering but the tattoo chat they has was so endearing because it had such a ‘father/daughter’ type vibe …

[Ammi]

…anyway, I don’t have time to add any thoughts on other aspects this morning but it is very refreshing to read two perspectives and thought processes etc, relayed so eloquently and respectfully to each other…:love:..

[BBXX]

…not to detract and derail what’s a very interesting sharing of opinions between BBXX and Vesavius in offering different perspectives…the initial remarks that caused upset and offence from Mickey…?..were not only said to a gay person, the offensive term wasn’t just directed at a gay person…it was all pointedly directed at a gay female and the ‘tie you up’ comment was definitely something that many females would find very disturbing and wouldn’t find any ‘lightness of joking’ in at all in any world but most definitely in this current world…and I do feel that’s often forgotten or overshadowed with females…so I do think this all quite layered because no such remarks were made to any male of the house…only a young female…

…I was watching a vid of a bonding chat with JoJo and Mickey/discussing their tattoos…and it was all very sweet and it made me think…I do think that Mickey maybe struggles in relating to females other than on a ‘physical attraction/sexual’ type basis…I don’t know if that’s true, that’s just my own pondering but the tattoo chat they has was so endearing because it had such a ‘father/daughter’ type vibe …

I think you have a point.

While the comments were homophobic, I don’t think Mickey is homophobic, I think he’s ignorant and actually I don’t think it was rooted in homophobia but I do think it was probably rooted in some kind of mix of lack of social skills, sexism and arrogance in that he’s probably used his fame throughout life to obtain what he wants and so the idea a woman wouldn’t give him the time of day was unfamiliar to him.

The “tie you up” comment is indicative of a bruised ego.

[vesavius]

Your comment originally suggested that Mickey made his comments in the current climate of “woke liberalism” That is undermining the homophobic remarks.

Yes, because the current climate of woke liberalism plays a part and can't be separated out. I'm not going to ignore talking about it because it offends.


I agree in theory, but you yourself are deciding what offence is fake and what isn’t and then playing victim based off of your own made up benchmark, which isn’t actually reality.

If you only agree in theory then you don't actually agree at all.

Our own judgement and interpretation of intention and context is all we have. We all make judgements on those things every day and I trust my reading of a situation. I am always going to trust my own judgement on these things over an alternative reality dictated to me by others.

I think we should rationalise this further: your version of straight people being silenced extends to...

Whereas gay people being silenced is...

Again, you are comparing as if it's some kind of victimhood competition.

I have said from the start that LGBT+ issues are as important.


Sorry you can’t say fag anymore without it being called homophobic though, I guess.

I have never said that at all. That definitely is not a word that I would choose to use and I have not defended Mickey using it. But, in the end it's just a single word and only has the power over you that you give it. In the end offence isn't given, it's taken.

I wouldn't have used 'queer' a few years ago either until it was re-appropriated, so who knows in the future. It's all ultimately about context and intent. Even JoJo understands that.

I am not going to deny there aren’t radicalised members of the LGBT community; that would be stupid and dishonest. But I do think there needs to be a bit of honesty here about the power imbalance that each group of people have at either end of the spectrum.

At the end of the day, LGBT people make up 3% of the population.

Yes, but that 3% has a vastly disproportionate loud voice and influence and has the backing of both the State and the Corporate world.

Look, I am not here to defend the radicalised right at all... I have explained why idiots like Tate have emerged, I am not here to say that's a good thing. I do not think that's it's a good thing, tbc.

I dislike the radical right as much as I dislike the radical left. Both are full of nutters.

It’s been good to debate with you as always but I feel like I cant continue this conversation without repeating myself, though I will happily read your reply. I appreciate your time in this exchange. Have a good day.

I understand. Thank you for staying civil and taking the time to express your views. We might not have arrived at an agreement but that's ok :)

[vesavius]

…not to detract and derail what’s a very interesting sharing of opinions between BBXX and Vesavius in offering different perspectives…the initial remarks that caused upset and offence from Mickey…?..were not only said to a gay person, the offensive term wasn’t just directed at a gay person…it was all pointedly directed at a gay female and the ‘tie you up’ comment was definitely something that many females would find very disturbing and wouldn’t find any ‘lightness of joking’ in at all in any world but most definitely in this current world…and I do feel that’s often forgotten or overshadowed with females…so I do think this all quite layered because no such remarks were made to any male of the house…only a young female…

…I was watching a vid of a bonding chat with JoJo and Mickey/discussing their tattoos…and it was all very sweet and it made me think…I do think that Mickey maybe struggles in relating to females other than on a ‘physical attraction/sexual’ type basis…I don’t know if that’s true, that’s just my own pondering but the tattoo chat they has was so endearing because it had such a ‘father/daughter’ type vibe …

Yeah, the 'tie you up' stuff was what I found most over the line in all honesty.

I do think that it was Mickey attempting banter with JoJo but I also think it was clumsy, ill judged, and inappropriate when directed at someone that doesn't know him or his intentions well.

But, yeah, JoJo has made peace with it and moved on and she's the one in there with him who sees the most of him, so I think I am happy to move on as well.

I am very impressed with her in all honesty.