2 questions?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Swansea council in Wales admitted all meat in schools is animal cruelty Halal. Why?

The "Active inclusion network" which operates Muslim hikers, has managed to install signs pointing to Mecca in the Peak District most popular hiking routes. Why?.

Your suggestions please

The population England and Wales is 94% NOT muslim

[Gusto Brunt]

Luckily I don't eat meat but I guess school kids can opt out of meat meals.

[BBXX]

Swansea council in Wales admitted all meat in schools is animal cruelty Halal. Why?

Genuine question - why is serving Halal problematic? I don't understand why people have an issue with Halal meat.

The "Active inclusion network" which operates Muslim hikers, has managed to install signs pointing to Mecca in the Peak District most popular hiking routes. Why?

Practising Muslims pray 5 fives times a day and do so in the direction of Mecca. I guess it's cool thing for them to do so when on a hike that falls within prayer time they know the direction they are facing is correct. This is a social group that have come up with this initiative, I don't see how is harms anyone.

The population England and Wales is 94% NOT muslim

Oh really I thought we were being overtaken and our culture was under threat? Glad the hyperbole surrounding this has been replaced with facts.

[Oliver_W]

Genuine question - why is serving Halal problematic? I don't understand why people have an issue with Halal meat.

The animals' throats are slit while they're still conscious. I don't eat meat so it doesn't affect me, but it's needlessly cruel, bordering on torture.

Practising Muslims pray 5 fives times a day and do so in the direction of Mecca. I guess it's cool thing for them to do so when on a hike that falls within prayer time they know the direction they are facing is correct.
Let them carry a compass :shrug: no need to litter the natural world with superstitions.

[Beso]

They should maybe teach the kids that the food they are eating has had a bloke with a big butchers knife slicing it's throat for their enjoyment.

[BBXX]

The animals' throats are slit while they're still conscious. I don't eat meat so it doesn't affect me, but it's needlessly cruel, bordering on torture.

But the vast majority (almost 90%) of all Halal meat in the UK is stunned first ensuring they are unconscious.

Let them carry a compass :shrug: no need to litter the natural world with superstitions.

Aside from pretending signposts are litter, how does it negatively impact you? I don't understand.

[Oliver_W]

Aside from pretending signposts are litter, how does it negatively impact you? I don't understand.

It doesn't really bother me, it's just a pointless expenditure and needless additional to the landscape.

[Beso]

90 percent may be stunned first but that still leaves 26.7 million chickens,3.1 million sheep (28.8% of total slaughtered) and 35,000 cattle being barbarically treated every year.

[BBXX]

90 percent may be stunned first but that still leaves 26.7 million chickens,3.1 million sheep (28.8% of total slaughtered) and 35,000 cattle being barbarically treated every year.

Pretending there is a nice way to kill an animal is strange.

90% of Halal meat is rendered unconscious compared to no Kosher meat, so perhaps it would be best to start the campaign supporting 'humane murder' there?

[BBXX]

It doesn't really bother me, it's just a pointless expenditure and needless additional to the landscape.

Fair, the group funded it themselves as a way to incorporate prayer time during a hike easier to encourage more Muslim people to enjoy the great outdoors. It's just a few sign posts on a single trail in the Peak District. :shrug:

[Beso]

Pretending there is a nice way to kill an animal is strange.

90% of Halal meat is rendered unconscious compared to no Kosher meat, so perhaps it would be best to start the campaign supporting 'humane murder' there?

You don't seem to have an issue with it so I don't see why you are so concerned about people who have.:shrug:

[BBXX]

You don't seem to have an issue with it so I don't see why you are so concerned about people who have.:shrug:

I was participating in a discussion.

The OP asked a question as to why it was being served, and I explained how it probably wasn’t much of an issue due to the vast majority of Halal meat being stunned.

[Vicky.]

I remember reading into this a while back and it appeared slitting the animals throat is less painful than other methods of killing

[bots]

i think the current standard recommendation is the most humane to animals, thats why vets recommend and approve it. We have lots of food safety recommendations that are set in law with no exceptions, and yet halal killing seems to be allowed as an exception.

[BBXX]

Apart from in Wales, Scotland and Ireland where all halal meat is stunned. England has religious exceptions for Halal (where 90% of animals are stunned) and Kosher (where no animals are stunned).

[Oliver_W]

i think the current standard recommendation is the most humane to animals, thats why vets recommend and approve it. We have lots of food safety recommendations that are set in law with no exceptions, and yet halal killing seems to be allowed as an exception.

It's needlessly cruel, but so is fox hunting - they both serve a purpose (the fox population "needs" to be controlled, people "need" to ear meat) and they're both rooted in tradition, which makes them tolerated (to varying degrees).

[BBXX]

I remember reading into this a while back and it appeared slitting the animals throat is less painful than other methods of killing

It is supposed to inflict less pain due to its suddenness, yes.

[Ammi]

…in terms of the OP and the question regarding Halal meat in schools…my own suggestion would be that thing of funding and not having enough of it and the facilities needed to be able to offer both halal and non halal…one of the huge divisive aspects of these current times, though…is that lack of funding and lack of investment by all of our governments over the last few decades…has meant that the public are not seeing an ‘inclusiveness’…they’re seeing and feeling the exact opposite of that and because no choice is being given…/…only forced changes….

…I don’t eat meat but I don’t think it’s going to cause anything other than more divisiveness to offer no choice, the only way to be inclusive is to invest in both options being available…

[Kazanne]

I don't eat meat and I think all animal slaughter is cruel and unnecessary in general .IF we were doing it to dogs etc there would be an outcry I dont eat or drink dairy either for the same reason.

[Livia]

People who didn't know what halal slaughter entails but still try to keep up their inclusive, right-on appearance should really keep out of the argument. I'm sure the Imams would be truly grateful for all the support they get from the gay community, people they'd like to see dead. And yet we're the wrong 'uns.

[BBXX]

Apologies if I have said anything incorrect, I’d be happy to be educated further on the topic.

[Livia]

I am a Jew who doesn't eat Kosher because of the cruelty involved. I educated myself... I do eat meat but only locally produced, humanely slaughtered meat and we're certainly eating a lot ess meat than even a year ago. Halal is secretly foisted on us for the sake of a minority Look into how many pizza chains serve halal, and how they don't use actual ham but dye halal chicken to look like ham. Let's all just accept this though because we don't want to be seen as racist.

[BBXX]

“Humanely slaughtered” is an oxymoron, in my personal opinion, something we meat eaters say to make ourselves feel better about eating meat.

All slaughter is inhumane which is why I look at halal and kosher no different to all other ways of slaughter. It’s not about fear of criticising it for wanting to be not seen as racist it’s just the way I view the killing of animals. The end seconds of the life of the animal is so similar and I think, for me anyway, it’s so much less about those last few seconds than it is about the life the animal has lived in the lead up to it.

FWIW, I don’t think there is any need to bring up sexuality just because we’re discussing an Islamic practise. I can be gay, against Islamic teachings on homosexuality while also not seeing much of a muchness when it comes to the halal vs non-halal slaughter of animals. Muslims want me dead so I oppose halal doesn’t make sense to me as a thought process.

[Ammi]

“Humanely slaughtered” is an oxymoron, in my personal opinion, something we meat eaters say to make ourselves feel better about eating meat.

All slaughter is inhumane which is why I look at halal and kosher no different to all other ways of slaughter. It’s not about fear of criticising it for wanting to be not seen as racist it’s just the way I view the killing of animals. The end seconds of the life of the animal is so similar and I think, for me anyway, it’s so much less about those last few seconds than it is about the life the animal has lived in the lead up to it.

FWIW, I don’t think there is any need to bring up sexuality just because we’re discussing an Islamic practise. I can be gay, against Islamic teachings on homosexuality while also not seeing much of a muchness when it comes to the halal vs non-halal slaughter of animals. Muslims want me dead so I oppose halal doesn’t make sense to me as a thought process.


…yeah, I also never really did understood any reasoning/thought process of ‘humane way to take life’….

[bots]

…yeah, I also never really did understood any reasoning/thought process of ‘humane way to take life’….

vets recommend and regulate how the animals are killed. I don't really know what more can be done than that given that humans are meat eaters

[Ammi]

vets recommend and regulate how the animals are killed. I don't really know what more can be done than that given that humans are meat eaters

…yeah, I believe that Halal is approved so long as the animal is stunned and I appreciate that humans are meat eaters but that still doesn’t alter that killing in itself and of itself doesn’t fit with ‘humane’…so as I said to BBXX, it feels like a total misfit of descriptive…

[Oliver_W]

“Humanely slaughtered” is an oxymoron, in my personal opinion, something we meat eaters say to make ourselves feel better about eating meat.

All slaughter is inhumane which is why I look at halal and kosher no different to all other ways of slaughter.

In that case, we may as well fully allow fox hunting - they're just as dead when outright shot, as they are when chased across several miles and torn apart by ravenous dogs.

No difference at all

[Livia]

In that case, we may as well fully allow fox hunting - they're just as dead when outright shot, as they are when chased across several miles and torn apart by ravenous dogs.

No difference at all

Great point.

[thesheriff443]

In that case, we may as well fully allow fox hunting - they're just as dead when outright shot, as they are when chased across several miles and torn apart by ravenous dogs.

No difference at all

That is the stupidest thing you have said and you are well educated

[Livia]

Perhaps sheriff didn't understand it.

[Kazanne]

“Humanely slaughtered” is an oxymoron, in my personal opinion, something we meat eaters say to make ourselves feel better about eating meat.

All slaughter is inhumane which is why I look at halal and kosher no different to all other ways of slaughter. It’s not about fear of criticising it for wanting to be not seen as racist it’s just the way I view the killing of animals. The end seconds of the life of the animal is so similar and I think, for me anyway, it’s so much less about those last few seconds than it is about the life the animal has lived in the lead up to it.

FWIW, I don’t think there is any need to bring up sexuality just because we’re discussing an Islamic practise. I can be gay, against Islamic teachings on homosexuality while also not seeing much of a muchness when it comes to the halal vs non-halal slaughter of animals. Muslims want me dead so I oppose halal doesn’t make sense to me as a thought process.


You cant kill an animal humanely,none of them want to die,like you I hate the way they are mistreated ,neglected and abused, and the way the industry tries to hide it by posting "Happy animals" on their products,Red Tractor was found to be a lie,maybe some would benefit from watching a few documentries such as, Dominion,Knives to forks,Earthlings,Cowspirisy,Seaspirisy, hard to watch but sometimes necessary.

[Kazanne]

In that case, we may as well fully allow fox hunting - they're just as dead when outright shot, as they are when chased across several miles and torn apart by ravenous dogs.

No difference at all

Well yes there is,a fox that is shot hopefully dies quickly, chased by hounds and ripped apart,just no, I know what Ide prefer. Fox hunting is also cruel as is any so called sport that used animals imo.

[Ammi]

In that case, we may as well fully allow fox hunting - they're just as dead when outright shot, as they are when chased across several miles and torn apart by ravenous dogs.

No difference at all

…fully allow for animals to be killed purely for sport/for a leisure or pleasure activity and blood/kill sport …?…I don’t understand how that would equate to anything that was said by any other member or to Halal method of meat/killing for food chain purposes…

[Oliver_W]

Well yes there is,a fox that is shot hopefully dies quickly, chased by hounds and ripped apart,just no, I know what Ide prefer.
That was my point - I was replying to a post that said halal is basically the same as any other slaughter.

…fully allow for animals to be killed purely for sport/for a leisure or pleasure activity and blood/kill sport …?…I only don’t understand how that would equate to anything that was said by any other member or to Halal method of meat/killing for food chain purposes…
It's not exclusively a blood sport. Fox hunting is (meant to be) part of rural fox population control, it has a function - but also happens to have what many would call needless barbaric cultural additions tied in - like halal and Kosher slaughter.

[Ammi]

That was my point - I was replying to a post that said halal is basically the same as any other slaughter.


It's not exclusively a blood sport. Fox hunting is (meant to be) part of rural fox population control, it has a function - but also happens to have what many would call needless barbaric cultural additions tied in - like halal and Kosher slaughter.

…it was said much earlier in the thread, though that in most cases so far as we’re aware, stunning is practised in Halal, which makes it more comparable to non halal…but I do agree that it’s a strange descriptive to attach ‘humane’ to the act killing in general…which is what was being said…

…I still don’t get that any kind of claimed ‘animal control’ by chasing down an animal for it to be torn apart in any way can be compared though to the topic…animal control is not attached to cultural beliefs…

[Beso]

90 percent may be stunned first but that still leaves 26.7 million chickens,3.1 million sheep (28.8% of total slaughtered) and 35,000 cattle being barbarically treated every year.




.

[Livia]

I buy sensitively reared, local meat that has been humanely slaughtered. I pay quite a lot more for it. But the consensus seems to be that I'm just wasting my time and money and if I eat meat, it's pretty much all the same.

[Beso]

How many butchers does it take to kill all those unstunned animals a year. A lot you would imagine.

You would imagine mostly Muslims. So with the Muslims only being a tiny percentage of the UK population, out of that tiny percent there's am awful lot of people willing to do this job.

Compared to the larger percentage and their inhumane tiny percentage who jump on horseback to kill foxes, it does make you wonder what type of people some people are.

[MTVN]

Pretending there is a nice way to kill an animal is strange.

90% of Halal meat is rendered unconscious compared to no Kosher meat, so perhaps it would be best to start the campaign supporting 'humane murder' there?

I agree tbh. There is very little non stun halal slaughter in this country and it's only done for certain religious sects which require it.

People would probably be surprised by how often they eat halal meat without realising. Lots of KFC branches only serve halal chicken. In New Zealand almost all meat is halal because they want to export to Islamic countries.

[BBXX]

In that case, we may as well fully allow fox hunting - they're just as dead when outright shot, as they are when chased across several miles and torn apart by ravenous dogs.

No difference at all

I did say later it’s about the life they lived leading up to the deaths that’s more important to me than the final seconds. A fox being chased for miles and then being torn apart by dogs is not the same as an animal living a great life and then having its throat cut which often cuts of the supply to the brain instantly ensuring no pain.

[BBXX]

I buy sensitively reared, local meat that has been humanely slaughtered. I pay quite a lot more for it. But the consensus seems to be that I'm just wasting my time and money and if I eat meat, it's pretty much all the same.

Not sure why you’re taking this so personally.

Nobody is saying you’re doing anything wrong, you’re shopping based on your own beliefs and viewpoints in Halal meat which is fine.

[arista]

Swansea Council in Wales bans meat for school children


That needs to be your title