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-   -   Woolwich murder- Police suspecting terrorist attack (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225105)

Kizzy 24-05-2013 09:49 AM

My point is I feel that the act was more a reaction to UK foreign policies than religion, it had religious connotations due to the words he used, but the driving force behind the attack was political and not religious.
You both may disagree, but that is how I see it.

lostalex 24-05-2013 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 6014059)
My point is I feel that the act was more a reaction to UK foreign policies than religion, it had religious connotations due to the words he used, but the driving force behind the attack was political and not religious.
You both may disagree, but that is how I see it.

You don't understand that Islam IS political. If you ask a Muslim they will tell you that Islam is not just about their personal relationship with God, but that it is a way of life, and a culture, and it is every aspect of life. So you need to understand that to Muslims, Islam is always political.

Just like the Catholic church is also political. just like Feminism is political, just like homosexuality is also political.

Omah 24-05-2013 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus. (Post 6014053)
There's a mix up there. You said it wasn't motivated by religion, I was disputing your opinion that it isn't. Meaning I disagreed with your initial premise.

My 2nd point was that any war requires an army, even a holy one. In any army (just as life) there is hierarchy. The generals send their soldiers into battle to die, they never send themselves to die.

So, if the Muslim "generals" aren't going to get 72 virgins in Paradise, is that why they make do with four on earth ..... :conf:

Jesus. 24-05-2013 09:56 AM

Fair enough, but it would be impossible for a Jainist with the same political grievances to act in such a manner.

That is the key thing for me. If a belief in a different religious dogma can change the outcome of this horrific scenario, then somewhere down the line, that dogma needs to be identified as a problem. Not the sole problem, but a problem nonetheless.

thesheriff443 24-05-2013 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omah (Post 6014062)
So, if the Muslim "generals" aren't going to get 72 virgins in Paradise, is that why they make do with four on earth ..... :conf:

jesus as made a good point in his post:shocked:,.
your post does not detract from the point he was making.

thesheriff443 24-05-2013 10:01 AM

its very hard to fight someone who is not afraid to die for what they believe in.

Omah 24-05-2013 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thesheriff443 (Post 6014068)
jesus as made a good point in his post:shocked:,.
your post does not detract from the point he was making.

Who's trying to detract?

I had previously made the same point, albeit ironically ..... :rolleyes:

Kizzy 24-05-2013 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus. (Post 6014066)
Fair enough, but it would be impossible for a Jainist with the same political grievances to act in such a manner.

That is the key thing for me. If a belief in a different religious dogma can change the outcome of this horrific scenario, then somewhere down the line, that dogma needs to be identified as a problem. Not the sole problem, but a problem nonetheless.

But isn't that the definition of a fundamentalist... to take religious dogma to extremes?

Omah 24-05-2013 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thesheriff443 (Post 6014070)
its very hard to fight someone who is not afraid to die for what they believe in.

A bit of a truism there, I believe ..... :idc:

Jesus. 24-05-2013 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 6014073)
But isn't that the definition of a fundamentalist... to take religious dogma to extremes?

But when the dogma itself is naturally extreme, when is that the issue under the spotlight? A fundamentalist Jainist will get less violent, the same cannot be said of the Abrahamic religions.

thesheriff443 24-05-2013 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omah (Post 6014078)
A bit of a truism there, I believe ..... :idc:

it is but it sums up the fact that we will never win this war, we can only try to prevent the loss of life.

lostalex 24-05-2013 10:11 AM

Imagine if Martin Luther King or Ghandi decided to be terrorists, would we even know their names? probably not. They are heroes because they advocated NON-VIOLENT change. If they had tried to lead terrorists for their causes they would have only hurt their causes. instead Martin Luther King was able to make the KKK the bad guys, and Ghandi was able to make the British the bad guys, and their strategy was far more effective.

Imagine if homosexuals were blowing up buildings and doing suicide attacks, murdering heterosexuals at weddings. Would that help or hurt the gay equality cause? It would certainly hurt it.

Omah 24-05-2013 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thesheriff443 (Post 6014088)
it is but it sums up the fact that we will never win this war, we can only try to prevent the loss of life.

Nobody wins a war where ALL sides are "not afraid to die for what they believe in".

In war, 'collateral damage' cannot be "prevented".

Kizzy 24-05-2013 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus. (Post 6014086)
But when the dogma itself is naturally extreme, when is that the issue under the spotlight? A fundamentalist Jainist will get less violent, the same cannot be said of the Abrahamic religions.

It is under the spotlight very much so, the dogma of jihadism advocated by sunnis for instance.
Like I said yesterday more needs to be done to raise awareness of the difference in muslim teaching to identify extremism

SharkAttack 24-05-2013 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thesheriff443 (Post 6014088)
it is but it sums up the fact that we will never win this war, we can only try to prevent the loss of life.

Sounds a lot like cancer, but strides are being made, a little at a time. Keep up a little bit of the hope there, Sheriff, all is not lost yet.

thesheriff443 24-05-2013 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omah (Post 6014093)
Nobody wins a war where ALL sides are "not afraid to die for what they believe in".

In war, 'collateral damage' cannot be "prevented".

this is a very different war, in which only one side fights fair, one side fights to protect the other fights to destroy.

Omah 24-05-2013 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thesheriff443 (Post 6014099)
this is a very different war, in which only one side fights fair, one side fights to protect the other fights to destroy.

Your simplistic view appears to suggest unfamiliarity with the true nature of "war" - I suggest further, deeper, reading ..... :pipe:

thesheriff443 24-05-2013 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SharkAttack (Post 6014096)
Sounds a lot like cancer, but strides are being made, a little at a time. Keep up a little bit of the hope there, Sheriff, all is not lost yet.

like cancer you never know when it will strike who it will try and kill.

lostalex 24-05-2013 10:24 AM

I feel like i'm not getting as much attention as i'd like in this thread. just saying...

thesheriff443 24-05-2013 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omah (Post 6014105)
Your simplistic view appears to suggest unfamiliarity with the true nature of "war" - I suggest further, deeper, reading ..... :pipe:

unlike most I don't need to take up most of the page to say what I mean!
if you cant post without being rude I suggest you go and read a book on good manners!

thesheriff443 24-05-2013 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostalex (Post 6014108)
I feel like i'm not getting as much attention as i'd like in this thread. just saying...

every little helps alex:wavey:

Omah 24-05-2013 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thesheriff443 (Post 6014109)
unlike most I don't need to take up most of the page to say what I mean!
if you cant post without being rude I suggest you go and read a book on good manners!

Who's being rude?

Physician, heal thyself ..... :wink:

Lee. 24-05-2013 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostalex (Post 6014108)
I feel like i'm not getting as much attention as i'd like in this thread. just saying...

I'm paying attention to you Alex:)

Kizzy 24-05-2013 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thesheriff443 (Post 6014109)
unlike most I don't need to take up most of the page to say what I mean!
if you cant post without being rude I suggest you go and read a book on good manners!

Omah manages to get over everything he wants to say with one pipe smiley sheriff... why can't you? haha!

thesheriff443 24-05-2013 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omah (Post 6014111)
Who's being rude?

Physician, heal thyself ..... :wink:

you are by suggesting I need to do more deeper reading, would suggest you think im not educated enough to under stand war!
take your pipe else where.


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